From Combat to Clarity: A Blueprint for Transformation | Wylie McGraw

25:18Don't hate the warrior. You can hate the war or hate the purpose, but there's that fine line where it's like, I'm willing, I would go back and do it again because I love my country. I love the people in it. I love my family, God, country, family, et cetera, friends, all of that. I'm serving them. I'm serving them. And if I can go at least create some change somewhere in the world, I don't have to agree with the rest of it. I'm going to do my best to uphold to those standards and those values. I'm going to do what's morally right. And if I feel something's wrong, I'm going to question it and fight it.

25:49And I think that's what happens. People just go along, unfortunately, and they just do what they're told. And nobody pushes back. And that's where we've gotten off the rails is because more and more people have just sat back and just allowed people to make decisions. And nobody's questioned it because they're said, it's wrong to question orders. It's wrong to question people's ambitions and motives. No, it's not. If you feel it's wrong, you have every right to question it. And the only way we're going to stop or stave off this problem is if we have more people who have the gumption and the willingness, the courage to stand up and go, nope, I will not do X, but I will do Y.

26:19And I think that's what went wrong with World War II, is a lot of people started to allow that to just be, let the leaders make decisions. We're just going to execute. And then these next wars that we experienced over the next generations, people were just being told to do stuff and they were just doing it. um yeah and then things fell off the rails yeah I guess Vietnam even though it took 14 years the activists probably won in the sense that you know Nixon in 1968 pledged to end the war uh yeah he escalated it for a while but then after his his his reelection he basically shut it down or or Ford ultimately shut it down and so it took a long time but they they got out of it and then and then and then i guess there wasn't really like anything major until desert storm right under bush and then of course you know well yeah anything major aside from maybe whatever special operations we're doing in the shadows because we don't know what's going on with them we can't forget about grenada grenada right right panama uh all that where the ranger regiments did what they did out there um but yeah that's i and if you look at history i think to me it's it's crazy is because going to Iraq and looking back at Desert Storm, my stepdad was a Desert Storm vet, 12 Rob, a combat engineer.

27:31And him and I used to have nights where we converse about our combat experiences. And it's interesting is, why did we go to Iraq? Well, look at the father-son legacy. Okay, well, you don't use your military for legacy. And that to me was, that was just one reason. And they're like, okay, this is ridiculous. So I lost friends because he needed to finish something or we had resources that we were curious or interested in or a control mechanism that we're looking to place for power. It's like, okay, this is the problem with leadership. There's a lot of evil in leadership and people don't realize they are going to compound those problems like interest.

28:02And down the road, it's going to really create some serious havoc. And I think that's what we're experiencing now is the byproducts of 50, 60 years ago, Vietnam, et cetera, we're experiencing it right now. We're starting to feel those decisions weighing on us and causing more problems. And it's just going to trickle down even further until we do something about it. So it's interesting. I know we've been talking a lot about your military experience, but you mentioned earlier that before going to the military, you're like this high school kid, and you were into competitive bull riding and baseball pitching.

28:37And of those three things, military, competitive bull riding, baseball pitching, I probably would have chosen baseball pitching. Yeah, I'm sure. Makes a lot of money. You're playing a game. It's just like, I always think this about sports. It's just a bunch of guys playing with sticks and balls and getting paid$40 million a year, which I don't resent that because, look, professional athletes are the most elite athletic people in the world, and hundreds of millions of people are entertained by it, so of course you pay the money. That's how capitalism works. And they earn every penny of it because...

29:22The owners of the teams, the owners of the media companies make 10 times as much as the players make. So, and then that filters down into society, like all our 401k plans and pension funds. So it's the American dream at work. You get to play a game and everybody benefits. And, but why didn't, so tell me about the baseball pitching. So I grew up, I mean, I grew up into a, I was literally born into a sports household. So the beautiful part of that is my dad, my dad was a baseball player growing up and he played semi-pro ball for the San Jose B's in the seventies, which is a farm team and I did like seven years.

30:03Who was the farm team for? Trying to think if I'm trying to remember Santa would be, if they were the, I don't remember what team they were. I can't even think of the top of my head right now. I don't know why. Yeah. It's confusing. Cause I used to go to a minor league team that had a stadium near our house where I lived. and I had no idea who they were. I don't remember. I just know that, again, he played that semi-pro ball for seven years and I know he was an outfielder. So he was, I think, a center fielder. He had an arm and he actually was being looked at by the pros. But in the 70s, there was no money in baseball.

30:35So the 80s was when things pivoted and money started to trickle in. He started to get the million dollar contracts. My dad also was an endless summer type guy, a big surfer, you know, wanted to do his own thing. So when I was born at a young age, I think it was like three. Eventually, he was telling me we were having a glass of whiskey with him. He said, yeah, three years old, you picked up a ball and threw it across the yard. And your grandfather was like, okay, bro, he's got an arm like you. You should do something with that. And I think four years old, he put me on my first tee ball team, put me on the mound to just stand there because tee ball, you don't pitch.

31:07But when you're old enough to pitch, I started playing that position. And then my dad, being a semi-pro ball player, giving family contacts, knew everybody in the professional league, like Rod Carew from the Angels, new Bo Jackson, So I grew up around. That's right. That's right. Yeah. I went to school. I went to high school with his daughter, Michelle, you know, rest her soul. But, and so I grew up around those guys and my dad got me pitching lessons from the angels in the eighties. So like guys like Bert Wylevin and Jim Abbott and Dennis Eckersley. So I met all the really cool dudes, Wally Joyner.

31:39I grew up in Anaheim. So the angels were my go-to team. So baseball was a primary sport that I was focused on. I collected baseball cards as a kid off season. I was always trading them and playing with my Beckett's and having that fun growing up. But it was, again, family dynamics are different from focusing on like, hey, you're going to do this specific job or this specific sport. You got to consider there's a lot more pressure depending on the family dynamics. And my dad expected me as the oldest of three boys to not only be the leader of my brothers, but also be a leader on my baseball teams.

32:11And then, of course, the pressure of I need to perform at the top of my game every year, year in and year out at a young age kind of starts to make you consider or question, you know, why am I playing this sport? You know, am I doing this more for me, for my dad, or am I doing it more for me and my love of it? And I love the game. But as I got older and I got into high school specifically is where I really was like, I don't feel good playing this because I feel like when I'm making mistakes or I'm not doing the best that I could be, there's a lot more consequence to it than just your typical lose a game or, you know, train harder or do better next time.

32:44And I didn't like that. So I started to pull away from it more and seek out a different path for myself. It wasn't that I wasn't excited about the opportunity to go play a college sport, you know, because I had scouts I was going to eventually meet, maybe get to the pros, because I was told I had the arm at 80 mile an hour fastball at 13 years old, I had potential. it was just the pressures of family dynamics the stress that i carried from my family with what i grew up around the pressures the uh personality issues that i had to deal with there was a lot of that compounding on me so in high school i fell in love with the idea of seeking something that was mine truly mine nothing i was told to do or born into but james more my stuff and bull riding was the world that introduced me to this like exciting new place of unknowns really started to feel the nervousness and excitement kind of what it what it did to me how it made me feel alive.

33:33And I pursued that relentlessly against the pressures of my dad telling me, don't do it. I wanted to do it. I felt like I was alive for the first time and I was making a choice for me rather than just doing what I was told to do. And that's where that separation started. I mean, the one thing about bull riding though is I feel like I could die from that. Yeah, of course. Like, did you? I mean, you probably saw some serious injuries among young people. I did. I got injured too. It's interesting. And I think this is a good lesson I've shared with people is bull riding taught me how to yield to the fear of the unknowns and the fear of death and the fear of injury are always going to be present when you're doing very vulnerable sports or joining the military or doing something very different and scary.

34:19So bull riding gave me permission to learn how to become present with that discomfort and that fear and learning how to utilize it as an asset for my ability to stay focused in the moment and be a good performer, be a good bull rider. And I noticed quickly when I got worried about being hurt or killed, I actually didn't ride really well. And when I changed that dynamic in my training, I was able to perform better and ride more bulls for the full eight seconds and actually do better in the sport overall and progress in the sport than it was if I worried about, oh my gosh, I could get killed or I can get hurt.

34:50And then at some times when I got banged up, I realized part of the sport, nature of the beast, no pun intended, just what's going to happen. I've committed to this because that is not what is going to stop me from experiencing what it is that I want to experience in this moment. And same thing with military. I'm going to join the military. I could die. Of course, I'm signing my life away. And I've lost friends that signed their life away too. But we don't go into there worrying about dying. We go into there realizing we want to do this job and we want to be good at this job. And when we focused on that, that's what mattered most.

35:19And the consequences of our actions, they are what they are. And so now many years later, you take all these experiences and you're like a coach for, for leaders, for business leaders and celebrities and all sorts of people. Can you talk about that a little? Like what I always, sometimes I'm skeptical of the concept of the coach, not, you know, because I think a lot of people use the term inaccurately. like they're essentially just trying to make money and they're not really coaching. Like for instance, I've written a lot of, I've, I give advice to people. People come to me who are CEOs and so on and ask for advice and I give advice, but I would not consider myself a coach.

36:05I am not putting someone on a regimen that is going to give them high performance. Like I'll write books about it, but I just don't, won't do it. But I think a lot of people who maybe don't even have as much experience as me go in there after when their life's a mess and then start coaching other people and it just it gives the whole industry like a bullshit taint to it yes yes you you hit it on the head brother you hit it right on the head number one i'm not a coach nothing i do is about routine nothing i do is about system uh it's not compartmentalization i think the personal development industry has marketed itself into a place where it is all about making money first and helping people second.

36:46As much as the average coach wants to argue, they might hear that and say, you're full of crap, Wiley. I do want to help people. The reality is, are you willing to sacrifice getting paid right now to make sure that the person you're interacting with that you've met actually is ready to do the work you're about to put them through? And most of them will say, no, I'm not going to give my time unless I get paid. And it's right there. My time is just as valuable as your time. So why am I going to charge you for time rather than for the result that I could guarantee get you if you engage in the relationship with me.

37:15So that's the first part. So I love that you brought that up because I'm not a coach. I hate that term because everybody is a coach now. Everyone figures out a couple of things. I read a few Jocko Willink or David Goggins books and they think, you know what? I've learned a couple of concepts. I'm going to go out and start my own business and I'm going to be a coach for business or lifestyle or I'm going to help people have better this and that in their life. And if you look at their lives, they're nowhere near but more than two steps ahead of that person that they're trying to help. and all they're trying to do is they're trying to capitalize on the system itself.

37:46And that's just an unfortunate part. So with you, like your people come to you because you don't approach it from a place of trying to show how I'm the expert and I'm going to show you how step-by-step and we're going to do this. You're like, I'm here to give you insights and practical advice based on your life and where you're at that can influence maybe your decisions, your ambitions, your focus, et cetera, and redirect you even if it's one degree. To me, that's like being an advisor or a confidant for someone. In the nature of my work, I don't do that. I'm not for everyone either. I don't care who someone is or what industry they're in.

38:19What matters is I just fix lives. I'm a glorified janitor for all intents and purposes. You can call me whatever you want to call me. My clients call me performance accelerator. They call me coach, whatever they want to do. You want to label me, whatever makes you feel comfortable, go for it. But the idea here is I actually will live with and travel with the people I'm working with. I'm by their side 24-7. I'm fighting their personal battles with them in the trenches as it's happening to them. There is no system to how I do it. There's no cookie cutter approach. There's no follow me because I'm just like Tony Robbins.

38:51I learned from Tony Robbins how to do XYZ. I don't use these weird techniques like NLP and all these manipulative ideas that people have out there on how to support others. I'm just raw and real. I will say things that people will go, I have no idea what you're talking about. And it doesn't matter. What matters is you can lean in to understand that when I say them, there's a reason why I'm bringing them up. I will rattle souls. I will push people far outside what their perceived comfort zone really is. I will fight them. I will battle them. I will confront them. And I will do things that their therapists think highly are illegal half the times.

39:21But I'm willing to do it to fix a human being's life. Not because I want to make a bunch of money or I want to help that person make extra money in their business or be a better influencer on social media. It's because that human being is struggling and suffering, even though they've got this empire and they want peace, they want some satisfaction, they want a set point of what it's like to actually have better relationships. They want to know who they really are without the demons that plague them. I don't think people are doing that. Nobody wants to do that ugly work. And I'm willing to embrace that people are not going to like me.

39:50And it's going to take a certain type of person who can go, you know what, I want that guy next to me. I want to talk to him more. I'm going to lean into him. And the last piece, James, really is just like, I'm sure you probably maybe in some way do it yourself is when I meet someone who might be a potential client. I don't say, okay, great, let's write a check and work together. I'll spend months with that person before we even decide to do work together because I need to make sure that individual can handle the relationship we're going to have together. I'm coming to move in with you. I'm going to be right there with you as life happens.

40:21So can you handle it or not? If you can't, then you're not my person. And I'm willing to sacrifice my time and even my resources to make sure that person's the right fit.

40:43so like what's an example where like you mentioned you know you're 24 7 you're traveling with them like yep like how did you get into this like what who who who is someone who is i mean you don't have to get specific names if you don't want but who is someone who's approached you and then what did you do and like what happened nobody approaches me nobody goes oh wiley i gotta go approach him in the traditional sense yeah everybody i've ever worked with it started with combat veterans i started my business working with vets dealing with ptsd um giving giving them the space to battle their personal demons for more personal life etc and it evolved where they were saying hey i got a friend who works in this industry or does this will you sit down and have a conversation with them they they see how my life has transformed They want to know what I'm doing.

41:30And I can't explain it other than the fact that you're like my battle buddy who's loving me and re-parenting me and healing me and getting me to a place of feeling optimal personally so that no matter what I do, everything is in a good state. I said, sure. And that's where it became the business was built around just this natural eruptive nature that I have. My essence, my spirit that rattles and irritates people exposes in that interaction with them the real truth that they're carrying. And so I'm trying to explain that to you that when I meet someone, it's because third-party introduction. Someone introduces me to someone.

42:06Nobody's going to see me on your show and go, I got to call Wiley right now and work with them. It just doesn't happen that way. It's all about relationships I've made where people are like, I want to introduce you to someone. I want you to sit down with them. Then we meet. A lot of the times I've been to events in the past where I've walked across a hotel room or hotel lobby at an event and someone walks up to me and goes, who the hell do you think you are? Excuse me? They're like, who are you? I watch you. I don't like you. It's like, okay, I don't even know you. They're like, I don't know why I said that to you, man.

42:32You just remind me of my father and how much my father pissed me off. You dress like him. You carry yourself like him. And it's like, that's the eruption that happens. I go, great. Let's sit down and have a cup of coffee and chat. And that person is somebody that I will end up spending time with. But it's truly completely abnormal. I don't do business like everybody else does. That's why I'm kind of like an acquired taste. So I hope that helps maybe explain that a little bit more for you. Yeah. So give me like a specific story. Like, somebody that you, you know, really, you know, did the work with?

43:04Man, that's, that's going to be a specific story that I did work with. I've worked with public figures in the personal development space. I've worked with CEOs of financial executives, Wall Street guys. Everybody has their own unique experience of life that is completely different. Their eruptions are completely different with me. So the best example I can give you is I had a public figure that I worked with in the personal development info marketing space. How public was he? Pretty darn public. Knows everybody. Let's just call it friends with everyone. I mean, he's worked with people like Paul Abdul, Tony Robbins, like all of them.

43:45So I met him through a PR contact, a mutual friend. Said, hey, I have a friend of mine in this space. He is in a place where nothing is working for him. He has done this for 30 some years. He's burned out and he's at his wit's end and he needs his life fixed. Are you willing to have a conversation with him? And of course, that's why I spent upwards of eight months with this gentleman prior to us ever working together because I had to go through the ups and downs of his life and the betrayals and the lack of trust and the skepticism and all of the components that come along in his industry that he's so used to because everybody bullshits each other in that industry.

44:24Everybody's stroking each other's ego. Everybody lies to each other. Everybody sells each other, markets each other. There's a lot of betrayal, a lot of fraud, a lot of things that happened there that he was carrying in his life that were affecting his performance and affecting his life with his wife and his child. And that relationship was tumultuous just getting him to realize, I'm not here for your money. I'm not here because of your name. I'm not here because of, for my business sake. And I showcased that just in my commitment into that relationship for eight months before he realized, you know what?

44:53Clearly you were sent for a reason. I'm here and I'm ready to do the work with you. And he committed to doing that work. And we spent a year together, basically un-effing his entire life to get him to a place where he's now living free and unencumbered from all of the chaos he's endured his entire life from childhood on. So he can experience that fulfillment in what he's putting his focus on. So again, I can't explain it from, because I'm not a coach. I can't go, you know, So X public figure came to me for X problem. And here's the solution I gave him. And this is his result. That's too compartmentalized.

45:24It's very intimate. It's very dynamic and different. And it's very confidential. But at the end of the day, he's like, I have no idea. I'm going to talk about him on my website and my client section. I have no idea where he came from or why. But all I knew is that this was the life overhaul that I needed. And I said, I'm happy to have helped. And then he'll text me every few months just to check in and say, Hey, man, everything is great. hope you're well and that's the end of it and like what kind of so like when you once you so you spent eight months kind of figuring him out i assume you didn't spend 24 7 with him during these eight months no you're just like kind of hanging out and talking and learning maybe weekly meetings go to dinner go to dinner once in a while have phone calls a couple times a week text each other uh just let them know i'm right there by his side you know and then once you decided to work together what was the what was the first thing well what what happened i that's i i'm trying to figure out a way to explain it to you it's almost like we were already involved in a relationship together so it was just we just kept going it was almost like here's where you just handle the logistics of you write the you know you write your check to commit to the relationship and we just continue on so i just ended up you know i was traveling with him at that time um so i was with him at some of the masterminds he was going to and some of his events he had to go speak at and just being there with him behind the stages by his side in his hotel rooms.

46:43And it just naturally is a relationship. It's kind of like having a battle buddy by your side is constantly redirecting your focus, showcasing your blind spots, telling you where and how and why it's affecting you, how to ship it. Just having that with him as those experiences are happening really helped create a new set point within him. Rather than being from an outside in, I was working from the inside out. So like, let's say, so you're with him and he has a meeting, okay? a meeting maybe with some, you know, some peers or some colleagues or some people who claim they want to help him have wider distribution and get him famous and whatever.

47:18So you're in this meeting and then he leaves the meeting with you and he says, man, that one guy was an asshole. Like, do then you like start poking at that or like, I'm just trying to figure out like where, where did you have him question where some of this anger or other issues he was having comes in? Yeah, we do. Every time I'm involved in a meeting like something like that, I'm already observing and paying attention to how the dynamics are playing out in the meetings. Most people go into these types of environments focused on more of the negotiation or the interaction. They don't understand the nuanced nature of the dynamics playing out and the games that a lot of people play.

48:03So I'm able to just identify that what's going on there. So if he comes out and goes, man, that guy is an asshole. I already understand why he might be having that experience of that feeling because I understand what that guy is doing. And I can poke at or talk to him about why that guy is acting that way, what his response or his actions are for that relationship, how that is actually that relationship between those two are affecting the overall outcomes or solutions or performance that these guys are involved in and help him redirect where maybe he needs to go confront that guy. Maybe he's allowed that relationship to sour for a very long time because he doesn't want to rock the boat or he doesn't want to lose the contact.

48:37But at the end of the day, if you don't confront things like that, you're never going to get to the truth and you're going to allow things to fester. And that's going to actually overall affect the dynamic that you're partaking in. It's going to affect the outcomes that you're looking for. It's going to influence your performance. It's going to be a problem with how you show up and people are going to take advantage of that. So it all depends on the individual and the experience. So I can't highlight that's how it happens every time. but I'm right there to showcase where that blind spot may be coming from so I can either direct that person to go engage with that relationship or just let it go or might just be something we need to work on within work.

49:12Why is he feeling so triggered, if you will, for that experience? What is really going on? Let's confront what is making you feel that way. But a lot of the times people don't see those specific nuanced details because they don't know how to coach someone through that. They just go, okay, well, so what? He's an asshole. It's business. You know, nature of the beast. Keep moving forward. And the reality is if you don't confront those things and get to the truth, maybe there's a problem there or maybe there isn't. And that's the difference is I'm willing to confront that and go all the way to the very edge and then some, even if it makes people mad, because I want to make sure we've got it all cleared out so we can get you to a better place.

49:45Yeah, so I'm just trying to figure out like, so I understand like what's, because I think it does sound very real. And so I want to see like, what's the specific story like without the names, where or even like just one day in the life of where, this was a situation you and the person you're helping were at kind of like, he had some blind spot and you kind of like work through it with him. So I always end up not on any volition of my own. I always end up becoming, again, this is like unique. This is like I'm a weirdo. My gift, I always end up becoming the thing that actually has broken or pissed off that person the most.

50:28So whatever they need to fight against, I end up serving as for some reason in that dynamic so they can push up up against it and they can create some real healing in their lives around it because everybody has something like that in their lives so okay so that right there like tell me a specific time when you just like I've had a I've had a knockdown fight with a client I've had to literally get physical and I allowed the client to get physical with me so what happened like like how did how did he why did why was a punch throw like what happened I needed him to because and the problem is his ego was so locked in on how he thought he should be and could be doing things that I couldn't get through him in our conversation.

51:06I'm at his house and I'm like, his ego is nonchalant attitude. You know, I'm a former Wall Street guy. I got it all figured out. Just all of this. And I literally could not sit there and listen to the dysfunction coming out of his mouth anymore. And he was like, I'm good. He kept saying I'm good. He kept with egos. Why was he saying that? Like, what were you saying? And I know I'm, I'm, I'm pressing here like to get the, the actual specifics. Yeah. I'm doing my best to, to uphold to the confidentiality as well that I promised the people that I work with. So, um, he had his head in the sand over.

51:42Okay. I'll give you the surface level of it. He had his head in the sand about a side business. He built multimillion dollar side business that he built that his mother and stepdad were basically driving into the ground. They were letting it leap. It was costing him 200 grand a month. Um, bleeding that kind of money. So he's in the red. And he was like, he was almost like, it's the dog with the coffee and the fire. This is fine. It was that the whole that meme, I'm sure you've seen that it was like, everything's fine. And he was avoiding the fact that that relationship between his mother and his stepdad with that company was directly influencing his lack of ability to actually grow his other business over here in his financial advising business he had built.

52:19And it was causing him to suffer in his personal relationships with the women he was dating, couldn't figure out how to get his kids to actually respect him the right way. So he had his unruly household. And he was like, no, I can just fix this by focusing on this. And he was like, I'm good. I don't need to worry about this business. And I said, this business is bleeding you as a human being dry. And that is influencing all of this over here. This is the thing we have to attack. And he kept fighting me and telling me, I'm not going after that. I refuse to do it. And I told him, you need to stop acting cool and like, shit is okay.

52:51and you just start getting real and start being a real man here and start being real with me or I'm going to get up and I'm going to leave. And he goes, no, I don't want you to leave. I said, then you got to get real with me. You got to get emotional. You start to move energy. You got to step up and break through whatever bullshit blinder you have on. And the only way we had to do that was I got to the point where I grabbed him and I had to physically make him shake and rattle him and confront him to the point where I made him reach out and slap me. Open hand palm slap me. So he can actually release whatever thing he had in his way, Whatever feeling he was carrying, whatever block in his mind he was holding on to.

53:24And when I got him to get raw and real with me as a man, we got down and started getting after it. We actually ended up wrestling for a few seconds at his house on his back porch. He sat up and he started to release so many emotions and thoughts and ideas and feelings that he never even realized he had trapped inside. And we finally were able to get to the truth of why he was allowing that dynamic to beat his ass every single day and bleed his personal bank accounts. And then he realized that's the direction. That's the target we have to focus on. I couldn't have got him to focus on that without him actually getting physical to release whatever ego he was holding on to.

53:56So that's the best way I can explain that. I know it sounds crazy, but I got him to open up. I got him to the real him, the real guy that I was waiting to meet. And then I finally sat down and said, now we can execute. Now we can move forward together. So, I mean, I threatened to leave and give him his check back. And I was like, I'm done. And what did he do? Did he like cut off the mom and stepdad? Oh, wait, that was a whole process. That took months. I mean, that was fighting his mom and stepdad the relationship we had to keep. We're like, that was a whole thing. It's not as straightforward as like, hey, mom, you don't get to run the business anymore.

54:27It was an eruption of the relationships. It was him facing the uncomfortable nature of what is going on, why it was going on, him revamping the entire company, firing the people that were bleeding him dry, hiring people that actually met his mission statement. It was a whole thing. That was a whole relationship. We spent majority of the time together focusing on that. Now, he sold this thing for eight figures. So at the end of the day, it's like, that was the, And that was the thorn in his side where when we started to get him to be a man and confront that and lead that element, he naturally started to experience better performance in his other business, his children.

55:02He started to discipline differently. They started to listen to him. He found a relationship that actually respected him and his life started to evolve because he was willing that leadership, that man stepped up into that position and started to engage the way he was always meant to from the biggest problem that he was overlooking or avoiding. And I think that's the problem with most people is we are avoiding the hard truths about our lives and we think that has no effect on our ability to live the life we say we want over here or perform the way we want to over here. Until you confront those demons, you're always going to be dragging them alongside you and they're always going to limit your capacity, your performance potential.

55:37Yeah, it reminds me of that saying, the way you do anything is the way you do everything. So once we stop the leak, That was, you know, involving both his family, his relationships with his mom, his business life. His life changed. Yeah, yeah. Because then it's like every aspect of his life kind of saw that change and then changed along with it. We are the epicenter of our lives, right? You know, you realize that everything that we execute upon, like you said, the way we do one thing is the way we do everything. If you're slacking in any department, it's going to influence your focus, your determination, your decision-making, your influence.

56:17It's like having a celebrity who is dealing with a lot of chaos in their life and then they're out on stage telling 250 million followers to do X. Those people are going to be influenced by that and do exactly as that celebrity does. Well, imagine a celebrity having a better life, being a better person, being in better relationships, not being so dysfunctional will change the scope of how people are interacting with them and then consequently change the influence that they have. It's all part of who we are. Did you ever have someone you were working with where obviously it's like there's layers of an onion.

56:50So you're finding things out because for them it's either a blind spot or something they're ashamed about that maybe they can fix their lives without confronting this one issue. But did you ever find out something about someone where you're like, whoa, this is too much for me. good luck i'm out of here no no no was there ever a time where other people would have done that they everybody i've worked with has said to some degree in their life that their therapist couldn't go beyond where they had taken them their coaches they work with just didn't understand uh and couldn't figure out the the problem and they never had anybody stay by their side to go through that storm with them so that's that's just the difference is there's nothing that people can't i won't go through with someone who's committed to it.

57:37There are people who have gotten to a point in my work where we've capped out. We've got to a point where they can't go any further, that they've reached their true peak, they're done, and we break and move away. It depends. I mean, clients will last sometimes six months, seven months, nine months, a year. It all depends on how far they really can be stretched and really pushed to the point where they can't do it anymore. They're like, I'm done. And that at least I get them to a place where their set point has changed. And now they're at least operated at a different level and they're not living in that dysfunction that I met them with.

58:08So it doesn't matter whatever traumas or abuse, but there are some, I met some public figures, specifically one in my top of my head right now, who couldn't get past the initial interaction with me because of his past traumas as a child. I was the biggest threat to him. He didn't understand, even though he asked to meet me because of his friend, he asked to sit down with me, he couldn't handle the feelings he was having and what he would have to confront and do the work that he'd do to confront it. He was like, I'm good where I'm at. And he just broke away. And that sometimes happens too. Well, and why was it?

58:41What did you guys talk about in that initial meeting? I didn't talk about anything with him. I made him feel things he didn't want to feel. That's it. I met him. We went to dinner. He's a big public figure. He was like, hey, what are you doing to my client? My client goes, hey, can you sit down with him? And I said, sure, of course. He goes, he's coming to town. I would love you guys to get together. He's seen how my life's changed. He wants to know what I'm doing. This guy spent two plus million dollars on personal development at the time. He's bragging about it. And I'm like, okay, great. But you're the one in pain.

59:09You're the one still dealing with stuff. You asked for this meeting. We're here. We're breaking bread together, having some dinner. And his ego started to wax and wane. And he couldn't realize that I was not the threat. What he was feeling, what was coming up, being around me, what I was just exposing, in our interaction was everything he was still carrying that was causing that pain that he had verbalized to his client or friend that he said he wanted to fix. And some people just can't get through that. They can't see you are feeling stuff that you're carrying. I'm not the threat. I'm not here to do anything to you.

59:44I'm just stimulating stuff that you need to work through. That's just what happens. It's hard to explain that to the average human being. Everybody thinks that if you can't explain it, then it's BS. But the reality is, I'm an experience. I'm not something to be thought. He thought he thought he could think me. He couldn't get through that. And he's like, I don't want to do this anymore. And that's okay. Next person to move on. So. And is it because you think he was uncomfortable revealing what was really at the heart of this or? Yep. He was afraid to face it. He's afraid to confront it. And that's unfortunate, but that's what it is.

1:00:34it's funny about the self-help industry like i once pitched this idea for a tv show of a fictional tv show but like a comedy called gurus gone wild and the idea is that you have all these self like the whole southern they all know each other right so they're all friends or or frenemies or whatever. And 90 % of them are kind of messed up and have really wild stories, but you don't see that that's like the iceberg below the tip of the iceberg. And, uh, you know, but, and I think a lot of times people don't even really know, like, like, like, okay, let's start with the assumption that happiness is always a fleeting feeling.

1:01:15It's when your dopamine's up and then you go back to some baseline of happiness. So like, for instance, me, I'm not always the happiest person. I would say in general, my baseline is probably below other people's baseline. So I have to really push myself just to feel satisfaction with my life. Now, am I speaking a truth about me or am I hiding something? Like what's your gut? No, you're being honest. You're being honest. Most people aren't. Happiness is an external thing. It comes from the outside. joy is different from happiness. Set points, like you said, your baseline is what you call it. I call it a set point.

1:01:57Most people's set point is not where they actually think it is, not where they really want it, which is why they can't handle certain levels of pressure and stress when it comes to the work they do. It's why they get frustrated very easily. And then it's why they bullshit themselves on social media and across the, like you said, I've met a lot of those guys. I've met a lot of those people in the personal development space because it was the industry that I worked in for a better part of four years before the pandemic, I've seen the truth behind the scenes. A lot of those people at private events and parties is they're not very happy people in their personal lives, but they have an image to uphold.

1:02:31They have an empire that they built on the premise of what they teach and what they share with the world. But the reality is they're at home kind of miserable, you know, burned out inside. They're stressed out constantly. They're always trying to fill some void with something they're doing, which is why they keep coming out with a new product or a new thing, and they repackage their coaching, and they just got to sell, sell, sell, scale, scale, scale. And it's because they're trying to hide the emptiness that they're feeling inside. With you, you're like, look, I'm real. I'm not happy all the time.

1:03:02Either am I. I'm a man. I wake up every day. I'm not at 10 every day. Anybody says that they are is full of crap. The reality is you can change your set point, and you can learn to find joy even in suffering, but you're not going to always be happy. And I think we have an industry to try to sell people on the chasing of happiness rather than learning how to find that set point of joy and satisfaction with where you're at and not worried about where you want to be or need to be and realize that you can't appreciate what you have in these moments. How are you supposed to even do that when you attain or achieve this next level?

1:03:36And that's what a lot of these industry gurus who know each other, who stroke each other, who sell to each other, they have built these empires of nine figures, 10 figures. It's like, yeah, but what has that done for you? A lot of them and say, well, I thought I could buy my way out of this problem that I've been dealing with for 30 years. Once I get the money, you can't. If you can't fix your life now, you're not going to be where you truly want to be. And you got to admit the truth is I'm not happy 24 seven. Life is stressful. You wake up every day. You go, gosh, what do I got to do now? People depend on me.

1:04:07I got a family. I got work to do. Sometimes I don't want to even go on podcasts. Sometimes I we want to talk to people. But the reality is, where's my set point? I have a set point of knowing what peace feels like. I know how to get to a place of joy, even though if I'm suffering through something. And I want other people to understand you can get that too. That should be the ultimate goal. Because everything else is irrelevant. Success means nothing if you don't have that as a foundation. And I think I appreciate the fact you were willing to admit that, you know, hey, I'm below the average with this stuff.

1:04:37But I think just talking to you, I can just tell you You're content with what you've done and have achieved and you consistently look to better yourself on a daily basis without going overboard and feeling like you just, your life has to revolve around self-help. I think that's where people get lost too, is they revolve their life around self-help and they become tunnel vision on it. And they realize that, they don't realize that they're missing out on opportunities and relationships that could be more beneficial to them. And they're overlooking those blind spots or those demons, as I call them, that are influencing their decisions and keeping them stuck in that paradigm.

1:05:06And so you're spending so much time with these clients. How does it affect your own personal life? Like, do you, you know, date or like what? I'm married. You're married. So like when you're traveling with, you know, someone for eight months or whatever, what happens in your relationship? Well, the beautiful thing is I have a business partner. She is amazing. And my wife, they know each other. So we have this, we all, we were a good relationship. But the truth is, when I got out of the military, I did the very thing that I'm telling people they need to do. I was able to confront through the support of an outside force, someone outside of me, holding me in the trenches to face my own demons, battle then head on, create some resolution in my life where my set point of peace becomes my go-to place where no matter what I'm faced with, I know how to get back there.

1:05:54So my life, my primary focus, when I wake up in the morning, self-care. I take care of myself. I exercise. I eat well. I really don't drink outside of a little scotch every once in a while. I don't drink coffee. I take care of my body. I focus on my relationship because my relationship with my wife is the most important thing to me. So having that as a baseline or a foundation then allows me to function at a higher level when I'm giving my life to a client. Now, when I travel with a client, I'm not gone for eight months. It just means my life becomes available to that individual and my wife understands it and my business partner, her and I work that dynamic together as it's needed.

1:06:32So sometimes people need me a lot more than the others will need me. It depends on where they're at. And the reality is I get to be home. I get to be here, but they have access to me. That's the commitment. It's like when they call, I pick up my phone. When they need me to get on a plane, I get on a plane. If I'm going to go spend five days with them, I go spend five days with them. I got to travel to an event. I go travel to an event. Wherever they need me, I'm there. If a client's burned out and he can't get to sleep, I'm literally on the phone all night with them, literally listening to them go to sleep so they can feel like they've got a battle buddy right there.

1:06:59I'm doing whatever I need to do for that individual based on where they're at, but my life never gets affected because my life is my priority, is my relationships, my health, and my sanity, and my place of peace. And if I keep that as my focus and my discipline, everything I'm able to do is exponential. And that's the key. Do you have more than one client at a time? Because what happens if... I see. So nobody can ever interfere with another client. It's, I'll back up that a little. I only work with maybe two, three max a year. And that it all depends on when the relationship is forged. And it doesn't really overlap too much.

1:07:36If I worked with a client where I've had another client come on board, yeah, but by the time that happens, I'm kind of already through the first few months of the un-effing, if you will, where we go through a lot of the real battle stuff and we can get to a good place of acceleration. Now the other person I've met, I have the space and capacity to kind of have that dynamic with them. So it just almost like naturally leapfrogs itself where I'm not overwhelming myself. But I have had a couple of years in the past where I've done some consulting simultaneously while working with a very specific private client that still I have time and energy to do it because that client doesn't need me at certain times of the day or night.

1:08:12I can give my attention to that other project that I'm working on. So I find the balance in that and the harmony in it. And what if it dried up? Like what if suddenly, like you say, a lot of it's word of mouth and you don't really publicize your services. What if it dried up and suddenly there's no clients and maybe it's for a short period of time and you have a feeling it's for a short period of time, but you don't really know. Maybe you think to yourself, this dry spell could last forever. Yeah. Do you get nervous? Nope. I'm doing okay for myself, I guess. I can look at it that way. I thank God for that.

1:08:46I'm like, you know what? I'm all right. I'm in a good place. My clients invest a very high level, high amounts of money to work with me. But I take upwards of 30 % sometimes of that money they invest in and invest it back in them. So my bottom line is never what they actually pay me. And I don't do this work for a bottom line. But at the end of the day, I've got a really bad business model because I've said no to people who are ready to write checks that are just not... They're not going to be a good fit. There's not going to be someone I can actually jive with. And they're not going to listen to me.

1:09:17They're not going to follow what it is I'm sharing with them, what I need them to do. So I've missed out on that. What's that kind of person like? Like what, what do you sense about that person? Like what happens? It's their ego. They have their E, they can't separate their ego and surrender their leadership. They can't truly let go and see themselves as Colt being a client of mine. You know, they can't go, you know what? I've worked a lot of guys that are older than me. You know, I'm in my mid forties and these guys in their mid fifties. And they're like, ah, they just can't set that ego aside.

1:09:48Some of them are like, I want to do this for the brag. I had a guy literally tell me, he goes, I just want to do it so I can say that I did it with you because I heard you were the guy that challenges people. I want to see if I can meet your challenge. And it's like, I don't work with people simply because you want to do it for some, you know, bragging rights. I don't care about the zeros behind your number. At the end of the day, it's like, my work is truly a mission. It's not, I'm not a coach. I'm not somebody who's designed to be a liked person. I'm not a, I don't have followers. You know, I'm not big on social media.

1:10:15It's I'm kind of like the guy that's behind the scenes that, again, the glorified janitor that fixes lives. And I challenge people in a way that they're not used to that. And so it takes a special kind of person to go, let me separate my ego and we feel into Wiley and realize I need a guy like that in my corner. Somebody who can, who's not a yes man. So you get a lot of yes men out there. So a lot of these, these leaders want to hire the yes men that they can control. A lot of these people like controlling their resources because it gives them a semblance of understanding what's going to happen.

1:10:44They don't get that with me. They don't get to control what they're going to get. So I've gone through it since the pandemic. James, you know, it's been hard since the pandemic because I think the pandemic broke a lot of people. I think there are a lot of people out there. They are afraid. And I've done a lot of work to invest in the digital space and a website. And it's like, I was always behind the scenes and didn't need any of that jump. But I was forced into a position where I put myself out into the public. And I've been feeling a little bit more of that, like you said, a lot of the drying up is happening because it takes a very specific type of person who go, I want to meet Wiley and connect with them.

1:11:19I want to know the uniqueness of it. I may not know what I'm going to get with them, but I can feel something's different and I'm willing to embrace and jump into that unknown. And that was special when I was a nobody. And now I'm kind of out here going, hey, still doing this work. But I think the pandemic broke a lot of people and a lot of people are afraid to do this. And they like the feel good stuff, the superficial, They like the notoriety. They want to go after the things with celebrity names attached to them. They don't want to commit to the hard stuff that really makes them very uncomfortable.

1:11:49And I think that's the problem I'm facing right now. So, but I'm open to whatever happens. I'm here. One year I had three clients, one year I had one. So whatever I'm supposed to do, I'm just here ready for it. And I will execute upon it as it's needed. Well, it sounds really interesting. And it sounds really like a different take. I wish I could get an experience of what challenges. I feel like I need shaking up, but it's hard to know from inside yourself what specific thing you need. What is causing you the frustrations you feel? For me, I'm able to write. So I write very reflective books, and I find that to somehow unlock things.

1:12:33because then you sort of find a story and like an archeologist, you do tiny little digging to see what the layers are underneath. And that's like what really, what I would say good writing is. And sometimes it helps a little, but it's not, but I'm directing it. No one's kind of hitting me from the outside. It's like Newton's law of physics, right? An object that's in motion will stay in motion until an outside force is acted upon it. People need an outside force to redirect them. somebody that can clash with them in real time and expose through that confrontation. And I don't mean like, you know, you don't have to actually get into a physical fight, but actually just like a confrontation dynamic where no stone is left unturned.

1:13:17I'm going to say things to you that you are probably looking at me like, what did you just say to me? Why did you just say that to me? And what does it mean? But it's on purpose to expose something you can't see, but I can. based on how I'm feeling into and observing your life and your relationships and the dynamics you're engaging. And of course, I have an amazing business partner. Her specialty, her intuitiveness, her ability, she's like my Reaper drone that's in the sky and I'm the troop on the ground. And she's able to navigate and go, Wiley, we need to go here with that person first. Even though that client might go, I really want to make$2 million more this month.

1:13:54And I really want to, it's like, yeah, that's great. That's a good byproduct. Or I'm going to write another book. Cool. But we got to go here first because this thing over here is actually what's really affecting you and you're unaware of it. And we have to attack that first and we have to clear that out. Then the things that you want to create will naturally just evolve efficiently for you. You know, I don't need to teach a billionaire how to make a billion dollars. You know, a lot of guys are like, I'm going to work with these high level people because it's like, but they don't need to learn how to do that.

1:14:22They already know how to achieve. What I'm here to do is optimize the human being. make that person experience this really powerful new set point of who they are so they can thrive in their relationships their health is where they want it to be their mindset's clear their focus is better their ability to problem solve in chaos becomes more efficient then everything they go do just be more exponentially sustainable and more impactful that's that's the difference and i think what it comes down to is like you said i really want that too it's like great a lot of people will say that. But the reality is, can you continue on the dynamic with Wiley?

1:15:01Can you go, you know what? Let's stay engaged. I want to learn more. I want to connect with you. Let's talk more and be willing to embrace that it's going to be unlike anything you've ever gone through. And it's not going to be like therapy. It's not going to be like coaching. And it's going to sound harsh. It's going to sound unconventional and unorthodox. But there's a reason behind it. There's a purpose of what we're trying to expose. And a lot of people can't handle that. They just can't hear it. They want things to sound a certain way and feel a certain way and look a certain way so they can feel comfortable making a decision to work with somebody, I'm just not that cup of tea for people.

1:15:31So that's the difference. It is a hard business model, man. It's really hard to be who I am and what I do. But I'm blessed. I got to say that some people wanted to do it and I got to do my work for 14 years. But at this point, it's been hard because a lot of people are kind of shying away from leaning into what it is I'm offering because they can't understand it. And I can't explain it in any more detail than that. Well, how can people find you? Like where do people, you mentioned you had a website. Where do people look? Yeah, WileyMcGraw.com. W-Y-L-I-E. Yep. McGraw, M-C-G-R-A-W. W-A-W.com. Yep.

1:16:04And there's like an email and everything. And then, and you have a book coming out. Where was my vacation? That's a memoir we've kind of been, yeah, I've been trickling around with that because for me to sit down and write a book has been a daunting task because I have a very EDD mind and I'm very creative. I like to be out doing more physical things, but it's nice to have people that are supporting that. So we'll see where it comes. I have another one that we'll want me to write to. The Dark Force of High Achievement, Why Success is Killing You and How to Save Yourself. That's another one that we've been putting together too.

1:16:32I think probably I need to read that one. Hey brother, look, I'm going to throw it out there. I'm always happy to stay open and dialogue with you, you know, and have conversations with you too. No, that's excellent. I might take you up on that. So, well, Wiley, thanks so much for coming on the show and also talking military history with me too. I always get great pleasure in that as our friend Jeremy could tell you. But thanks so much. And yeah, let's keep in touch. I really appreciate it. Sounds good. I appreciate you having me on too, James. Thank you. Thanks.

1:17:21Thank you.