From the Archive: Sara Blakely on Fear, Failure, and the First Big Win

25:47It's like, let it be what it is. But over time, you know, for me, it's such an important part of my life. But again, it's like a muscle, like that creativity muscle. How do you veer back into thinking of things differently? like essentially creativity. Yeah. Like I want to ask everybody who's listening now to take inventory, how much time in a day or a week do you spend alone thinking? Like, and that is where all of the answers come. That's where creativity comes. That's where just, it's an important tool for each and every one of us. And a lot of people are afraid to be alone and sit in their own thoughts.

26:28You know, they're uncomfortable with it because it's not something they've done. And especially now we have so much around us that is absolutely distracting us from ourselves. I mean, from iPhones to now there's televisions, even in elevators. It's like the stimuli is coming at us from every direction now. So now I feel like you have to be even more diligent about this is my time. And, you know, I read that Einstein, all his best thoughts came when he was shaving, which is another rote activity, something he was doing his mind must have been in a certain place that he would have these moments of thought.

27:02So find out where and when in your life that happens for you. I happen to figure out it's in the car. So that's where I try to allocate time for myself to be there. Take a quick break. If you like this episode, I'd really, really appreciate it. It means so much to me. Please share it with your friends and subscribe to the podcast. Email me at alcatra at gmail.com and tell me why you subscribed. Thanks.

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30:22Like, what's an idea you've had that you didn't act on? Because you must have millions of ideas that you don't really act on. I have 56 pages, single spaced of ideas. So you write them afterwards, you write them down. Like, what's an example? I do. My assistant, who's been with me forever, like over 15 years, she's like, oh my God, Sarah. I mean, how many times has she had to print those 56 pages? And then I just scan through them and I'll circle. like the belly art project was one of those ideas on these pages. So I get ideas all the time. Like I had an idea the other day of inventing or creating a cape that you would put on in the salon that is breathable and keeps you cool because they're so hot.

31:01You're sitting under the lights of the salon and they put that black non-breathable cape on you and you're warm and hot. And I just thought this is something that hasn't changed in a really long time. Someone needs to pay attention to this. Like there's got to be with materials now, a far better version that still stops the hair from falling on you, but has some breathability. So that was one idea. I love how, again, it's these simple, simple things. It's not like you're inventing a rocket ship to Mars, which may or may not be even useful to society. You actually have created things that are immensely useful to society.

31:35So which brings me finally to Spanx. You went to a ball or a party or whatever, and you realize you didn't want to have the feet on the pantyhose, so you cut them off. Well, I didn't want panty lines. So really, Spanx started way before I cut the feet out of my pantyhose. That's the soundbite everybody talks about. But I had been doing, through Wayne Dyer, so much work on myself to prepare myself for that moment. And while I was selling fax machines door to door, I sat down one day. I was out of such frustration, like, this is not my life. I literally had a moment. I pulled off the side of the road after cold calling 15 businesses that kicked me out.

32:09Did you cry? I cried all the time. And I'd like listen to tapes to recenter my energy and get me self-motivated again. And some days I'd go cold calling and I wouldn't even tell my boss, but I wouldn't go through a single door that day. Like I'd go sit in a park all day and then go back to the, cause we always had to report back at five. But some days I just couldn't even get the courage to walk through a door, you know? And then the next day I'd be like, okay, I can do this. But you know, the idea for Spanx came to me because I was so specific. I woke up, I mean, And I pulled off the side of the road and I was like, I'm in the wrong movie.

32:39Like, this is not supposed to be my life. Cut. Call the director, the producer. Like, this is not, how is this? This is not me. And I went home that night and I wrote down what I was good at. And in the column of what I was good at was sales. And I started asking myself, why? Why am I good at sales? What is it about sales? I deduced that I liked being able to offer something to somebody else that they needed or didn't know that they needed, but then helped them or changed their life or made their life better. and so I wrote down on a piece of paper that night, I want to invent a product that I can sell to millions of people that will make them feel good.

33:15I like how you use the word invent and it seems like that's an important word for you because you can say with Spanx, what you created was a new, you were almost like a fashion designer for underwear but you elevated to the point where you could say, no, I invented something. Why do you think the word invent is important as opposed to other words that you could have used to describe yourself at that time? Well, for me, it was really important to also help me get people to pay attention to me. I had no money to advertise. I started Spanx with$5 ,000 in my savings out of my apartment. And so Invent sounded also more newsworthy than here's a designer.

33:57And I also got a patent on it. I wrote my own patent. But even as you've said, patents are not really enforceable. Like if someone sued you or if someone stole your idea, you weren't going to sue them. You didn't have money to sue them. But the word invent, the word patent pending, these are words that kind of at least allowed you to get through the door. They were really sales techniques. They were very helpful for me to get attention for my product. And I think people don't think of that enough. Like they think, okay, I've got the product. Shouldn't they listen? But there's all these things combined.

34:28There's personality. There's the words you use to describe yourself that are kind of like almost like brain words. like keywords that people will listen to. And then there's the product itself. Yeah. Maybe, you know, I paid such attention to the value of a word when I was doing stand-up comedy because I would write comedy. I would write jokes or write storylines. And one night I would get up and the audience would laugh hysterically. And if I changed one word in the delivery, it would be like crickets. It's almost like you focus grouped language. I really did through comedy. I mean, I realized that the value of even punctuation and pausing and cadence of it is critical to how you connect with other people and how you can get them to feel connected to you or to pay attention.

35:12I think Mark Twain has a quote that I love that, you know, in language, the difference between one word could be the difference between being hit by lightning or a lightning bug, you know? And so, you know, I discovered that. So, with the stand-up comedy, how that ended up translating to me with Spanx was, I used all the humor and the marketing and the language through the packaging and through Spanx. I mean, even naming the company Spanx was a real risk at the time. I mean, it's become a household name, but at the time that I decided to name it Spanx, it was super risky. I mean, people hung up on me.

35:47They thought I was prank calling them. A lot of department stores in the country wouldn't sell it because they found it offensive. Particularly if they couldn't see the X, like you were saying it to them. But you wrote once or said once how the K sound was very important to you. And you were thinking about like Kodak, it starts and ends with a K. And so you wanted to have the K sound in there. I did. I spent a year coming up with horrible names for Spanx. I mean, I'd write them on scrap pieces of paper in my car and in airports on rental car agreements. Like I was just always thinking about it.

36:17And then when I narrowed my thinking to Coca-Cola and Kodak being the two most recognized names in the world at the time, and I was like, what do they have in common? You know, like just playing with them in my mind, and they both had that strong K sound. And then it's this weird trade secret among comedians that the K sound makes your audience laugh. So I was like, okay, well, there's something to this K sound. Let me want my invention to have that in it. And almost instantly, the word Spanx came to me while I was sitting in traffic. Of course, there's a sexual aspect. Yeah. It's a little edgy.

36:46It was edgy. It was like naughty. It made your mind wander. It made everybody laugh. Yeah. But, you know, I always say Spanx.com, you got to spell it right or you get a real treat. Like my mom sent her a whole luncheon when I first started to the wrong website and that wasn't pretty. So, you know, what I also admire is there was a certain patience. Like you first came up with the idea and then there was two years before you... The idea came to me. Yeah. Well, I put it out in the universe. So I wrote down on a piece of paper, I want to come up with an idea or invent something that I can sell to millions of people.

37:19And then it didn't come for two years. but I didn't squander any idea. So a lot of people think I cut the feet out of my pantyhose for like months. I did it one time and I literally was like, oh, are you my idea? Maybe you're my idea. I was so sure. I like the idea of asking, are you my idea? Oh yeah, for sure. I was like, you know, it's like that children's book, are you my mother? You know, each page, I don't know, I have all these small children so I'm reading all these books but every page, this little bird's like, are you my mother? And he's saying it to like a bear and then a crane at a construction site And I was like, are you my idea?

37:52But I was going to find out no matter what. I had no idea when I started pursuing footless pantyhose as an undergarment option if that was the idea. But the genesis for Spanx, once it came to me, was I just wanted to create the perfect canvas under clothes. So I look at clothing. I was a woman and I spent money on these clothes. I look at the clothing as the paint and Spanx as the canvas. Like if you don't have the right canvas, it affects the painting. and all the undergarments that were out there in the world left bulges or lines or a panty line or you know just didn't look great and I'm like I just want some invisible kind of canvas that I can hardly feel underneath my clothes that's super thin and lightweight that makes my clothes look amazing on and but like if I had been you at that point I would think to myself oh there's four billion women in this planet wearing undergarments.

38:48Why am I going to come up with something? I can't tell you how many times I thought that. Like every other day, I'd have this whole mental dialogue and I'd be like, you know, who am I? I sell fax machines. I'm from Clearwater, Florida. I've never taken a business class. Why would I be the one to think of this and do something about it? And then, you know, then I'd have another conversation with myself or a week would go by and I'd be like, that's right, I'm not going to do this. And then there'd be this other feeling that would come over me and I'd say, but what if you are? Like, why not? Like, pursue it.

39:22And my life was so bad at the time that I often say, like, if you're in a place in your life right now that's super bad, be really grateful because, you know, I find it when things are the hardest, it's when you feel the most inspired to make change or when things are really bad. So I was selling fax machines door to door. I was dating the wrong guy. I was like, not in a good place in my life at all, feeling completely like I was in the wrong movie. And that, you know, if things, if it hadn't been that bad, I don't know if I would have felt so compelled to take some sort of radical action for myself.

40:00And it wasn't quite radical in the sense that you still gave yourself time. Like a lot of people kind of come up with an idea and they say, okay, I have the idea. Now give me money and I'll quit my job and I'll just do it. And you kind of incrementally just can imagine now from what you're saying, you would probably be frustrated with one area of your life and say, okay, well, I'm going to just make some incremental progress on this new idea I have that's unnamed. Like what would be some of the kind of small, tiny things you would do to advance yourself forward? And this was over a two-year period.

40:32Yeah, I never quit my job selling fax machines. Which is really important to know. Yeah, I worked on Spanx at night and on the weekends for two solid years. And I took time off of work. I took a week off of work, a vacation time to actually go in person to the manufacturers that had all been telling me no over the phone and cold called them to try to get them to help me make this idea. But it is really important to know that I didn't just say, oh my God, I have this idea and I quit. I tried to really be calculating on how I could use the money and I needed my health benefits with my job for as long as I possibly could before I took the leap.

41:09And so again, I think part of your kind of mutant superpower is that on the one hand, attach yourself to this higher vision of empowering women. And then on the other hand, you're able to infect others with the excitement you had for this product. So when did you start to really see how other people would be infected with the enthusiasm for this product? Well, I find that so important. I didn't have the most experience in the room. I certainly didn't have the most money in the room, but I cared the most. So those things that are commonly listed as excuses why people don't try things, you right off the bat realize you didn't have them.

41:47No, I mean, I'd never taken a business class. I'd never worked in fashion or retail. I grew up on a beach in Clearwater where everyone wore t-shirts and cut off shorts year round. I'm going against a multi-billion dollar industry filled with experts that all day long think of what should be next. But I think the reason why Spanx is still around now is because the one thing that I had that they didn't is I cared the most. And that passion is so important. So if you've got an idea or you're trying to mobilize other people to help you, you have got to be extremely passionate and have energy when you're talking to them and smile and just be infectious in how enthusiastic you are.

42:28And so, for example, when I cold called all these manufacturing plants in North Carolina, they all sent me away. They're like, no, thank you. No, thank you. Not interested. And it was a couple of weeks later that one mill owner in Charlotte, North Carolina called me and he said, quote, Sarah, I've decided to help make your crazy idea. And when I asked him why he had the change of heart, he said, I have three daughters. And the three daughters had told him, Dad, this is actually a good idea. You should do it. But what caused him to even share it with his daughters at the dinner table was my passion.

42:57He's like, I don't think this is a good idea. He's like, I got to be honest. And I'm not sure, you know, what, if anything, this is going to do. But he said, your enthusiasm and your passion for it is what stuck with me after you left. It seems like you had to have the passion on several layers. Like there's the layer of this is what the product is. There's a layer of it's the higher layer of this is going to empower women. then there's all these things that will make women feel, it'll solve all these different problems for women along the way. And you kind of have to be passionate along each layer to really infect someone else.

43:30There has to be multiple reasons. Yeah, I mean, I used to practice how I would say things and I would try to take any doubt language out of my delivery. So if I would hear myself say, I think it's going to be great, I would change it to I know. And, you know, I just believe wholeheartedly that if you show any doubt in yourself, then the other person's certainly gonna have it. So your best chance or your best foot forward is to show zero doubt. Even if inside you're like, I'm scared and I'm not sure. I cold called Neiman Marcus. So I called them on the phone and I said, I'm Sarah. I invented a product.

44:10Give me 10 minutes of your time and I'll fly to Dallas. And she just kind of said, well, if you're willing to fly here, I'll give you 10 minutes. but in those 30 seconds that I had with her, the first thing I said was, I'm Sarah, I invented a product that is going to change the way all of your customers wear clothes and they won't be able to live without this. You know, and she's like, what? What is this? And then of course she says, well, mail it to me. And I'm like, no, I'm not going to mail it to you. Because she probably gets those calls every day. Yeah, I was like, no, I'm not going to mail it to you.

44:38I mean, I knew from cold calling that my best shot was in person. And she's like, well, you know, I really need you to just mail it to me and I'll circle back up with you. And I said, no, it's an invention. I'm very protective of it. And I need to be there in person to show you. It's only going to take 10 minutes. Please give me those 10 minutes. You won't be disappointed. I like how you say it's an invention as if that implies somehow she has to see it in person. Yeah, exactly. It doesn't mean that at all. But you kind of say, well, it's an invention. You have to see this in person. And then what happened is I show up and she's like, first of all, impeccably dressed.

45:10This woman is like Neiman Marcus headquarters in Dallas. Please, her pen matched her belt. It matched her shoes. I'm sort of disheveled. I come in, you know, I've got my lucky red backpack from college with me as my presentation bag and my friends begged me not to bring it. They're like, Sarah, do not go to the Neiman Marcus headquarters with that red backpack. They're like, buy a Prada bag, return it the next day if you need to, but don't show up with that bag. And I'm like, but it's good luck. And I literally had this red backpack with a Ziploc bag of the prototype in it from the mill and a color copy of the packaging that my friend and I had created on her computer.

45:46She had just finished graphic design school. And so that was my presentation. And five minutes into it, I'm totally losing her. I mean, and that's when I just stopped and leaned in and said, you know what? You need to come to the bathroom with me. And she was like, what? Excuse me? I'm like, please, I know it's a weird request, but will you come to the bathroom with me? I'm going to show you what my product can do in and out of clothes. And she followed me down the hall and I I went in the stall with and without Spanx on with these cream pants, and she took one look at it and goes, it's brilliant.

46:16I get it. And I'm going to try it in seven stores and see how it goes. So you literally had skin in the game, as they say. And that's the way to do things. You have to get skin in the game. You can't be like every other presentation. You have to put yourself into it. Yeah. But like all my training of being okay with being embarrassed is mission critical in creating something like this. I mean, it's super embarrassing to ask someone and, you know, what are they going to think of me asking them to come to the bathroom? But I was going to go there. But there's also this kind of like bonding technique where you asked her to do a favor for you.

46:53Hey, come to the bathroom with me. And so she felt her brain starts to feel like, oh, I'm the type of person who will go to the bathroom with Sarah. So it kind of makes her more likely to say yes, later on. This is kind of a cognitive bias we have. I was thrilled. And then, you know. But I just want to ask that too. So she ordered for seven stores. Which was unbelievable. Right. Like it was my first account that I was calling on.

47:30So I have started many companies. Some did well. Some did not do as well. I've also run many companies. I've advised many companies. And I've been involved in all aspects of the hiring process, whether sometimes I would have to hire a CEO, but sometimes software developers, sometimes designers, sometimes head of sales or business development. I've been involved in basically every aspect of running a business. And hiring is maybe the most important thing you could do when you start a business. So I'm going to give you one piece of advice and it's related to what I'm talking about here. I used to think I was frugal because I would try to find employees as cheaply as possible.

48:09Someone young, just starting out, whatever. But what I've learned is you do so much better as a business finding the best person in your field. If you want a head of sales, find the best head of sales. If you want a software developer, hire the best software developer. It ultimately will save you money, but it'll also save you so much time, so much aggravation, so much anxiety. These are all things you need to preserve. It's really important to hire correctly. When you're running a business, your mind is on your business 24 hours a day, seven days a week. That's the problem with being an entrepreneur is you never leave the work at the office.

48:46So when you're hiring, you need a partner that works just as hard as you do. I have found that a great hiring partner is LinkedIn Jobs. When you clock out, LinkedIn clocks in. LinkedIn makes it easy to post your job for free, share with your network, get qualified candidates that you can manage all in one place. And I find this is such a great platform to find people for your job because millions of people are on LinkedIn, millions of qualified people. Here's how it works. You post your job. LinkedIn's new feature helps you write job descriptions and then quickly get your job in front of the right people.

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49:48Find your next great hire on LinkedIn. You can post your job for free at linkedin.com slash Altature. That's linkedin.com slash Altature to post your job for free. Terms and conditions apply.

50:08I noticed throughout your story, you have this ready, fire, aim mentality where you get ready, you're all ready to go. Now you have to fire before you have to aim. So you had to fulfill this order before you were ready to fulfill orders. No. Throughout Spanx, all I was focused on is the quality of the product. I want to know that I have the best product in the world, like for what it's doing and then selling it. And I didn't think of anything else. So you kind of felt smaller problems would solve themselves if the bigger problems got solved. Well, I just knew, like, it doesn't matter how much money I've raised for marketing or my marketing plan.

50:46I just need to, I'm like such a scrappy salesperson at heart. You cannot take the hustle out of me. I can't help it. I just wanted to go and start selling this thing. And I'm like, everything else, I'll figure it out if I start selling it. I didn't have a backend set up. I had no distribution model set up. I had no marketing plan. I had nothing. So I'm in my apartment. I just left my job selling fax machines. Actually, I hadn't quit my job. I landed Neiman Marcus and Saks Fifth Avenue before I quit Danka. Very important point. Entrepreneurs mitigate risk. They don't take risks. So you took a risk, yes, by going to Neiman Marcus.

51:22but you still had your health insurance paid. Yeah. So anyway, I get this amazing opportunity. She says, I'm going to put it in seven stores. And I like to say this for a second because what you don't know can be your greatest asset if you let it. So if you're sitting there right now in your life and you're like, have an idea or you imagine a different life for yourself, but you're like, but I didn't go to school for it. Or I don't have any contacts in this. Or I don't have money to do this. You know, those things, if you just allow them to, could be what is your competitive edge. It could be what gives you the opportunity to do something amazing.

52:00If you don't know how it's supposed to be done, then it's pretty likely you're going to do it different. But let me ask, like, okay, I'll throw some other excuses at you. I'm too old. I'm too old to be a stand-up comedian right now. The guy who started Kentucky Fried Chicken was 60 when he started it. I mean, too old is like a joke. you're not too old. I would just, you're just not. So, but just to get back to that, for example, this is a perfect example of not knowing how it's supposed to be done working in your favor. I land Neiman Marcus, you know, months go by, all these people in the industry start coming up to me and going, Sarah, how in the world did you land Neiman Marcus?

52:37And I would literally look at them and I'd go, I called them and they would just stare at me. There'd be this really awkward moment. I go, why? What do you do? They're like, well, we go to trade shows. Like we've been going for six, seven, eight years. We set up our booth every year. We're hoping the Neiman Marcus buyer comes by our booth or takes an order from us. And I'm looking at them. I didn't even know there were trade shows. How did you get the buyer on the phone? I kept calling like I did when I sold fax machines until she picked up. So you would call? I'd call and call and call. I get her message and I would not leave a message.

53:10And then one day it took like maybe a week of calling sporadically throughout the day, every day, she picked up. What if like a secretary said, oh, she typically doesn't take any calls. You'll have to meet her in a trade show. What would you have done then? That's a little bit trickier. You really have to then win over the gatekeeper. So, you know, just give the pitch to the gatekeeper that this is a call that's really important, that's going to change, you know, the way women wear clothes and that Diane would really appreciate being able to speak to me. That's one approach. Sometimes I would send the gatekeeper something.

53:45Like some of the places I was trying to get into, I'd mail one shoe and it would just have a note that say, I'm trying to get my foot in the door. So like just quirky, weird things that kind of - Funny things. Yeah, funny things. But you know, I land these seven stores. I have no marketing budget. I am a team of basically one in my apartment. I don't know how to pack and ship. I've semi-trucks pulling up all of a sudden to my apartment with boxes of Spanx because I am the fulfillment center. I mean, the manufacturer wouldn't fulfill for me. So all of a sudden, all this stuff started happening and it was, and then I didn't have crotches.

54:20Very important to have a crotch. So when I landed Neiman Marcus, I called Sam Kaplan, the guy that owned the mill. And I'm like, Sam, Sam, it's Sarah. I landed Neiman Marcus. And I mean, total silence. He's like, what? I go, Sam, I landed Neiman Marcus. I need more Spanx. And he's like, Sarah, don't take this the wrong way. But I thought you were going to give these away as like holiday gifts for the next three years. Like, what do you mean Neiman Marcus wants it? Because he was still didn't think it was a good idea. So I said, yes, I need him. He goes, great. I'll patch you through to Ted, who I'd been working with in the back of the mill, like all the time on the prototype.

54:51And he was super Southern and had this super thick accent. And it's like, I have so many funny stories about that. But I got patched through to Ted and Ted's like, well, that's great. But what you can do about the crotches? I was like, what are you talking about? Ted, don't they come with crotches? Like I just landed Neiman Marcus. He's like, well, we only got two crotch machines and they're being used by somebody else. I'm like, what? I just landed Neiman Marcus and I have no crotches? Like, and I remember thinking - What does it mean to not have a crotch? I still don't understand. Yeah. Like there's no crotch in the garment.

55:20Like that's a separate piece that needed to be sent to the mill and like put in. It's a little thicker somehow or I don't understand. It's a cotton crotch. Okay. Women listening will know the importance of that. So anyway, I remember thinking, I don't know where to go for a crotch. Like, where do I look for a crotch? I actually looked in the yellow pages under crotch. Under crotch. And it's not there. And then I found out that there's a fancy word for crotch, which is gusset. And so that helped my search a little bit. And then I had like crotches being FedExed from all over the world to my apartment.

55:50And my roommate at the time would come home from, she was a teacher, and she'd be like, you got another crotch in the mail. And thankfully, just out of luck, I found a crotch company that happened to be in Atlanta, Georgia, like 30 minutes up the interstate from where I was. And the guy by the name of Gene Bobo saved the day and provided me the crotches I needed to deliver the Neiman Marcus order. So Sam would create the pantyhose, send them to you, and then this guy would sew the crotch in. Yeah. And you had none of this prepared, like, in advance? No, I thought it came with the crotch because I'd been working with Ted.

56:20How much time did Neiman Marcus give you to kind of fulfill the order? I believe they wanted it in two weeks, and I think I ended up delivering it in three. Okay. Yeah. But then, you know, I'm up all night packing and shipping and trying to figure out how to make the deliveries specific to how Neiman wants it. I had to go stand in Office Depot and learn about a bill of lading and a manifesto. And I remember one day I was working 24 hours, seven days a week, which you have to do with this for many, many years. But this was early on in my journey. And I just started crying in the aisle of Office Depot.

56:52I just literally sat there and wept. And this man was like buying folders or something. He turned, he's like, honey, are you okay? And I was like, what is a bill of lading? And like, he's like, let me go get someone. What is it? I still don't even really know. It's something you have to attach to the outside of boxes that have to go to Neiman's and Nordstrom and Bloomingdale's. Like, I really don't even know. I'll tell you this, that as an entrepreneur, you know this, you learn very quickly what you're good at, what you're not good at. And as soon as you can afford to, hire your weaknesses. And usually your weaknesses are what you don't enjoy.

57:28And as an entrepreneur, you don't have the money to your every department. I was the before and after butt model. I literally took a picture. My friend took a picture of me in and out of the Spanx with the pants on. I went to Kinko's, laminated, and stood in department stores. And that was my collateral, my own butt, showing it looked not so great and then much better. And I was also the packer and shipper. and I was trying to figure out, you know, I was cold calling all these big accounts. And so very quickly, I was like, I cannot be in the production side of this. So even though you had this sense that, okay, if I solve the big problem, i.e.

58:03sales, just sell it. The smaller problems will take care of themselves. And yet they're still frustrated. You have to get through the frustrations of solving the smaller problems, at least initially. Yeah, I mean, I went about it in such a different way. I read about and learn about all these people that raise so much money before they've even really made the first sale. Like they have, and I guess I just didn't do that. I didn't really understand the whole VC thing or I literally was so clueless. I didn't even, I didn't have any contacts. I didn't know how any of that worked anyway. But I was like, you just make it and you make what you can afford and you sell what you can afford and then you use that money to buy more.

58:42And then when you sell that, you use that money to buy more. And then just, that's just been what I've done. And I still own 100 % of Spanx. It's been 16 years. I started it with the five grand from selling fax machines door to door. When did you quit the job for selling fax machines? After I had landed Neiman Marcus and Saks Fifth Avenue in October 14th of 2000, I sent a gift basket of my product to Oprah. And I found out that Oprah chose the product as her favorite product of the year on that Oprah Favorite Things show. three weeks after I officially quit my job. So her favorite thing shows in November.

59:18I quit my job on October 14th. And it was wild. So that's another example, though, of ready, fire, aim. Like Oprah wanted to film your office and you didn't have an office. Yeah. So, but you said yes, of course. So you, the fire was you saying yes. And then you had to kind of find the office. Like most people would say, no, I don't have an office. But no, yeah. You don't say no to Oprah. No, no, no, no. Yeah, it was, they showed up with all these fancy clipboards and lighting and a whole crew to my apartment in Atlanta. And they said, Sarah, we decided on the plane, we want to film you in your headquarters.

59:50And I was like, you're here. Spanx headquarters worldwide. I was like, you're here. They kind of looked at each other and they went, oh. And they said, and we want to film you having a staff meeting. And I was like, really? Hold on a minute. I called Connie that I'd met at Mailboxes, et cetera, and a few friends and said, can you please leave your jobs immediately and come to my apartment and look like you work for me. And we sat in a circle on the floor, and that was my staff meeting for the Oprah Winfrey show. Oprah also, they said when they called, they said, you have a website, right? Because we can't choose you if you don't have a website.

1:00:22I didn't have a website. And I was like, yes. When is the air date? Yes, I have a website. And then I was like. How did you put together? Did you have e-commerce on the website once you put it together? My boyfriend at the time, who was a healthcare consultant, helped me figure it out. There was a company called BigStep.com when they were giving the templates. and the back end for websites. I just scanned in a color copy of the packaging and that was my homepage. I paid$18 a month for the merch account, the credit card fee. That was my website for two years for Spanx. My entire website cost me$18 a month for two years.

1:00:57And it was just the color copy of the packaging and then a buy button. And I put some images of photographs I took of my friends in the product. so speeding ahead now i want to get to the belly art project because there's so many parallels between this and spanks and creativity and your global vision of how you live your life there's a book the belly art project which you put together it's photographs of you and many people you know who have painted these amazing paintings on their bellies and then took photographs of themselves in these beautiful situations. I just want to describe the very first photo is of you.

1:01:36You painted a basketball on your belly and then you're on a court in a basketball game. And it honestly looks to me like you're kind of defending the basketball against all these players. And that's your belly with the basketball painted on it. So how'd you come up with this idea? So the Belly Art Project came to me at three in the morning, three days before I delivered my son. I literally woke up from a dead sleep and thought, my God, my body is incredible. Like what a woman's body can do. And I saw this belly and the form my body was in. And I thought, it may never be in this state again. Like in three days, I'm delivering my son.

1:02:12And what can I do with it? And I saw it as a canvas, like my belly as this beautiful canvas. And I literally wanted to turn my belly into objects. So I wrote down on a piece of paper, watermelon, beach ball, basketball, Mr. Potato Head, and went back to bed. And I woke up the next morning. I stared at the piece of paper and I'm like, really? I'm like, really? Am I going to do this? And then I called a friend and said, could you come over and paint my belly these things? And he got his friend who was a photographer and we ran around Atlanta and I painted a watermelon on my belly and I literally went into the grocery store and bellied up to the watermelon display and put my belly on top of all the other watermelons.

1:02:46And then the beach - That photograph's in the book? Yeah. And then the beach ball, I went to like a public pool with families in Atlanta and walked right through the whole complex and got up on the diving board and sat there with my belly as a beach ball. And it was just fun and playful. And my idea was to give these pictures to my husband as a gift when my child was born, our child was born. And I also thought it was a really cool way to capture it for my child too. You know, when they're older, instead of just here's mommy pregnant, like you were the basketball or you were the watermelon in there.

1:03:18And then when I gave it to him, he just said, Sarah, you got to do more with this idea. It's really cool. It's super creative. The pictures are unreal. And it sat in my drawer for a couple years. And then I sort of started getting up the courage to ask other women if they would do it. Did anyone say no to you? Yes, some women said no for different reasons. They just weren't comfortable with it or schedule or, you know, just different reasons. But I would say 98 % of the women I approached said yes. And one of the first people I approached was Kate Winslet. And she said, you know, absolutely, I'd love to do this.

1:03:51And they all knew it was for a good cause. I was giving 100 % of the proceeds to help mothers in need. So it wasn't a book I was trying to make any money off of myself. I just thought of it as a platform and a way to celebrate women's bodies in a time where we're pregnant and see the kind of whimsy and fun and humor in our changing bodies. I know pregnancy is beautiful, but I kept getting these gifts for goddess-type photo shoots, and I never really felt like a goddess when I was pregnant. I felt more like a Cirque du Soleil character. I was like, this is funny, and I'd look at my body and go, oh my God, and just start cracking up.

1:04:24And like, this is, so I just sort of saw it more through a humorous lens. And then I started writing objects down at every traffic light I'd sit at, again, in the car, all my ideas. I mean, the word Spanx came to me in a car and the ideas for belly art. And then I collected this whole long list and I would approach women that I didn't know or that I did know. I mean, I literally stalked women at airports, other people's weddings, and nail salons. I'm like, hi, I'm not weird. I promise. But your belly's amazing. And here's what I'm doing. And you know, I'd show them my pictures. I always find that when you're trying to get people involved in something, showing yourself or being a part of it or somehow making yourself as vulnerable in a sense is a really helpful tool.

1:05:07So the fact that I'd already done it, I'm like, here I am as a watermelon, you know, or here. They were like, oh, okay. So, you know, with Spanx, I put my own butt on the line, literally. I mean, taking a photograph of my own butt before and after and being willing to show it not looking perfect in the before. I mean, you know, you got a panty line, you might have some cellulite, whatever. And then the women would look at it and I go, and this is me. You know, and then you could see their whole body language change. And then it just became like this girlfriend to girlfriend moment. Like, that's you?

1:05:35Well, you know, you look great. I would never think that's you. And I'm like, girl, you know, like we all have this. It's like, we're looking for the right canvas under our clothes. So anyway, on the belly art And seven and a half years later, over 100 women in the book. It's a beautiful artistic coffee table book. It's so creative. It's a great gift to give women who are pregnant. It's a great gift to give a shower gift. There's also a belly painting kit. All of the proceeds go to help moms. So I just thought it's like a really, I'm just very proud of it. And I think it's very artistically beautiful.

1:06:06I mean, many of the women you asked really got into it. Like you mentioned Kate Winslet. She did a bunch of photographs in there. I think she did the eyeballs one with a friend of hers. And it's like two eyeballs, like both bellies are each of an eye. And then there's like a mustache in between. Yeah, we made that face. We paper mache-ed that nose and created those huge glasses out of foam core and traveled with a paper mache nose to England because the photo shoot was in England. So we made the nose in Atlanta and then flew there. But I mean, this whole project was done with like super scrappy.

1:06:38My childhood friend, Chelsea, was between jobs. She's like, Sarah, I'll do this. I'll take this on. I mean, she's got the most hysterical stories on the shoots I couldn't be at. She's flying around. She's trying to hand-make props and find props. And, you know, and the women were all so amazing. Half of them are famous, but half of them aren't, you know. And we got a military mom in there that was a Black Hawk pilot. We had stay-at-home moms. Oh, yeah, she had the helmet. Yeah, she had the Black Hawk helmet on her belly. So, yeah, but so check it out. I mean, and it's all going to help every mother counts.

1:07:09and I joined Instagram. So I got to tell you, one of my fears was social media. I've never been on social media. And three months ago when I launched the Belly Art Project, my team had kept talking to me about it and I was really genuinely scared. I'm going to face this fear, but I also want to do it because it's the right time to promote this project and to spread the word about this book. And I've been on Instagram for three months, so please follow me. I'm at Sarah Blakely. Please be my friend. And I have to say I'm loving it so much. My team was like, please do this. Please do this, Sarah.

1:07:42You know, and I was like, no, no, no, no, no. And now I think they're looking at each other and like, she hasn't worked since, basically. And well, people also should tag you and hashtag the Belly Art Project and put their own photos up on Instagram. 100%. Yes. We have all these amazing pregnant women that have painted their own bellies and are posting the pictures. And it's creating quite a movement. and it's awesome. So again, though, it's a way of looking at some very common thing and saying, oh, there's a different use of this. And you've used the word canvas now to describe women's undergarments and women's clothes and now a pregnant belly.

1:08:19And again, in both cases, you're using it to, there's this idea of empowering women. So this is overriding vision, and that fuels your infectiousness, I'm sure, when you're asking people to do this for you. but like what other things could potentially be canvases in our life? I'm just asking this out of the blue. You might not have an answer. I mean, anything. Well, for me, as far as products go, I look at everything and I like to ask why. So I could look at this table sitting between us and I'm like, who invented the table? And how interesting? And who was the first person who did that? And what were they thinking?

1:08:55And is the table, is that the right way it should still be created? Like when's the last time tables changed or is there a better way? Or, you know, find things really interesting. Like the men's undershirt is part of why I went into men's for Spanx. I mean, there was no big business plan or any kind of researching the market opportunity. I don't operate like that. I operate very much from gut and very much from product. Like if I can create a product that's going to change lives or make your life better or be a better option, that's where I get my energy and then I let the rest work itself out.

1:09:24But the men's undershirt has been the same since 1918. It was invented in 1918 and literally no one's paid any attention to it since. So like six or seven years ago, I started playing with that. Like, well, why, why do some things evolve so rapidly? And some things you look at it and you're like, man, that is, that is really the same. Well, why, why hasn't that? Like, for example, I broke my leg last year, snow skiing, and I was like fascinated by crutches. I was like, man, this is crazy. I've got to invent a better crutch. The crutch hasn't really changed since like the 1500s. The only thing that's different is now it's metal and not wood, you know, but it's highly dysfunctional and there's got to be a better way.

1:10:04So is this an exercise? Do you find yourself with every product, like always asking these questions? Yeah, my mind just wanders to that. I'm just always thinking about that. And, you know, like the other day, I was fascinated about the guy who invented gum. I didn't read anything about them. I was just sitting there on a plane thinking about it. And I'm like, wow, because I brought a concept to market that didn't already exist. And I had to explain what it was, you know, took all this sort of, but why do I need footless pantyhose? And I'm like, it's about the butt, like it's the canvas. So I like to think of other people who've done that journey.

1:10:37And when I think about the guy with gum, like, can you imagine being the one to try to promote gum? Like, I could just imagine people going, well, what is it? Well, it's this wad, Like, well, what am I supposed to do? Just chew it. Well, for what? And don't swallow it. Like, I just try to go through, like, my mind of the sales pitch for that guy. Like, creating this whole item that became part of society. Like, think of that. And the original gum had no flavor either. So it's like, just chew this thing. Did it have sugar? I don't know. I don't know. So you should do a book on, like, all these kind of inventions.

1:11:12Weird things. Have you ever thought of doing something on creativity? because obviously that's such a big part of your life. I have so many other ideas that I'm in the process of pursuing and doing. Like what? Tell me one. I don't talk about them until they're out. Like I'm really superstitious that way. Like with Spanx, I didn't tell anybody my idea for one whole year. I told patent attorneys and I told manufacturers, people that could help me move it forward, but I didn't share the idea with a friend or family member. Was this to buffer yourself against potential criticism? I think so. without knowing it, I just wasn't looking for validation.

1:11:49And this is what's interesting. When we have ideas, they're the most vulnerable in their infancy. The moment you have an idea is when it's most vulnerable. And that's when, as humans, we want to turn to our right or left, tell our friend, our coworker, our husband, our wife. And that's when out of love and concern, people will say things that I think stop and kill most ideas right on spot. So I just didn't do it. And what happened is I didn't invite ego into the process. So I didn't want to spend my time explaining it and defending it. I wanted to spend my time pursuing it. And by not telling people, so all my friends and family knew is Sarah's working on some crazy idea.

1:12:30She won't tell anybody what it is. And for one year, nights, weekends, I'm like telling my friends, no, I can't go out with you or on the weekend. I'm like, no, I'm sorry. I can't go to that party or just be in the libraries researching things or writing my own patent or driving to North Carolina to meet with Ted and Sam. And then it was about a year into it. And I just intuitively felt like now's the right time. Like I'll share with them what I'm working on. And I think it was that I knew I had invested enough of my own self into this path that no matter what came at me, I wouldn't have stopped it.

1:13:01And so I literally started telling my friends and family what it was. and their reaction was hysterical. I mean, they're like, what? You're doing what I'd hear? Well, honey, if it's such a great idea, why doesn't it already exist? And then I'd hear, well, sweetie, even if it is a good idea, you're going to spend your savings on this and the big guys will just knock you out of the water in six months. They'll just copy you and then you'll have no savings. Did anyone try to knock you out of the park? Everybody. I mean, everybody. So what I tell people is, you know, I was pretty nervous and paranoid about my idea during the development stage.

1:13:32don't be because nobody's really interested in taking your idea and copying it until it's out in the marketplace and viable and working so um i mean i had people sign non-disclosure agreements when they would but if they didn't you know what am i going to do i still needed them to try to help me but yeah the telling friends and family came later and i think that if i had the idea cut the feet out of my pantyhose put it on that night went to the party and woke up the next day and told my friends and family, I might still be selling fax machines. Well, Sarah Blakely, founder of Spanx, and even just as importantly, the Belly Art Project, which raises money for women in childbirth and going through all sorts of childbirth issues, plus an amazing work of art.

1:14:19You should kind of send them on display in museums. The photographs are beautiful. Thank you so much for coming on my show. By the way, I was very persistent. You probably don't even know the ways in which I was persistent to get you on this podcast. But also respectful. I never pushed in some way that was inappropriate. Well, I so appreciate being on your show and especially knowing what you gave up to be experiencing today to have this time with me. Thank you so much and check us out. Well, I'm going to definitely do it. And Instagram, please. And post a photo of yourself pregnant. But not only—by the way, men aren't excluded.

1:14:54Warren Buffett's in your book. he painted on his belly. He's the only guy in the book. He's the surprise person, but he's such a women champion. And I just, as a fluke, sat next to him at an event and he asked me what I was up to and I pulled out my phone and showed him the pictures and he laughed so hard and said, well, I want to be in the book. I was like, was he serious? Was this a joke? So about a year later, I emailed him. I'm like, I have no idea if you were serious or not, but I'd love for you to be in the book. And I gave him three or four options to choose from. And he shot me back an email and said, I'll take the yo-yo, count me in.

1:15:29And I was like, oh my God, this is amazing. And like four days later, I was flying to Omaha to paint a yo-yo on Warren Buffett's belly. Did you paint it? No, I had a belly painter, yeah. Because in one photo, I just want to mention Ron Wood, the Rolling Stones guy, painted on his wife. Yeah, because he's an amazing artist. Ron Wood is an amazing artist. And I felt that was a good way for them to bond while she was pregnant. Yeah. So it was a nice relationship thing. Yeah, absolutely. Well, thanks again, Sarah. I can see your salesmanship and creativity at work as the seconds go here. So thanks again for coming on the show.

1:16:04Yeah, thanks for having me. I really appreciate it. And my husband loved being on your show. I didn't mention him during the podcast, but the Jesse Itzler podcast was really fantastic. Just I'll ask you now, what was it like living that month when Seal was living in your house? because so Jesse wrote living with the seal a seal moved into your house so he could train Jesse for 30 days and you had to deal with it yeah it was wild you know I love different experiences so I was open to I was like okay and it was just two worlds colliding that couldn't have been more different I mean here's a navy seal has been living out of a backpack for decades and he moved into our New York apartment you know on Central Park and we have a newborn son and it was just like, wow.

1:16:45And there was just so much to learn from him. It was fascinating. But my husband's a serial entrepreneur as well. And he loved being on your show. I was saying not many people really strike him and you did. And he talks about you a lot. And most people, my husband's striking other people because he's such a quirky, out of the box, kind of larger than life sort of guy. But he really liked meeting you. He kept saying, he's only got like four possessions. He lives in Airbnbs. and I knew where it was going. I'm like looking and I'm like, are you about to ask me to do this? Like, is our family gonna - I kind of sense that he wanted to.

1:17:19He does. So, you know, I'm kind of bracing myself for that. All right, well, maybe I'll have you both on the next podcast when you're living in like a trailer. With four possessions. And you said one of your four is Spanx, right? Well, I lied. I know. Add a fifth possession. Yes. Make it Spanx. What I usually do is I count an outfit as, like I have two outfits. and that contains everything because I can't count each sock as a separate possession Oh, okay How wonderful and how simple frees your brain up to way more important things It is, since I've met Jesse I've lived in like, you know, 20 different places Wow But it does allow me to not It's like you said My weaknesses are basically living a normal life So this is a way for me to kind of just experience lots of different places and focus on my creativity and the things I want to do.

1:18:12Oh, wow. So great. So again, thanks so much, Sarah. Thank you.

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