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Podcast Summary: The James Altucher Show - Hooked on the First Line: Mastering Memoir
Episode Details
- Title: Hooked on the First Line: Mastering Memoir
- Description: In this episode, host James Altucher and guest Cal Fussman discuss the importance of first and last lines in writing, personal anecdotes, and the art of storytelling, with a focus on memoirs and literature.
Key Themes and Discussions
- Significance of First and Last Lines in Writing
- Attention Grabbers: The first line serves to hook the reader immediately in an era of distractions (social media, AI, etc.).
- Impactful Conclusions: The last line aims to leave a lasting impression on the reader, encapsulating the essence of the piece.
- Reflections on Personal Life and Growth
- Personal anecdotes are shared about chess, relationships, and how various experiences shape one’s personal growth, emphasizing the connection between life experiences and writing.
- Exploration of Iconic Figures in Sports
- George Foreman vs. Muhammad Ali: The episode discusses their historic fight, emphasizing how Foreman’s psychological state was affected by the outcome and how it transformed his persona and career.
- Peak Ages in Professions: The conversation highlights how peak performance ages vary across fields (e.g., sports vs. writing), with writers often peaking later in life due to accumulated experiences.
- The Craft of Writing
- First Lines: Fussman shares insights into how first lines set the tone for a story, using examples from literature.
- Hemingway's Influence: The episode discusses Hemingway's thoughts on writing and the competitive nature of literary craftsmanship.
- Exploration of Memory in Storytelling
- The challenges of organizing memories into coherent narratives are discussed, with a focus on how personal stories can be complex and subjective.
- Markham's memoir "West with the Night" is introduced, which encapsulates the struggle of bringing order out of chaotic memories.
- Diversity of Writing Styles
- The discussion branches into various writing styles across genres, including business books, and the need for craftsmanship regardless of the genre.
- Fussman emphasizes that understanding the craft can enhance anyone's writing, whether in fiction or nonfiction.
Key Takeaways
- Craftsmanship is Essential: Regardless of the writing genre, understanding the nuances of storytelling and writing techniques is crucial.
- Memory and Subjectivity: Memory is often unreliable, and organizing it into narratives challenges writers to convey authenticity and depth.
- Personal Stories Matter: The episode underlines the importance of personal experiences and reflections as they contribute to a richer narrative.
Notable Quotes
- *"The hardest thing to write in any kind of book, essay, article are the first line and the last line."* - James Altucher
- *"The good shit sticks."* - Harry Cruz (paraphrased by Cal Fussman)
Conclusion In this episode, James Altucher and Cal Fussman explore the intricate relationship between memory, personal experiences, and the craft of writing. They highlight how great literature can inspire and teach aspiring writers, regardless of their field. The overarching message is that the art of storytelling transcends genres and is rooted in the human experience.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00Look, as a manager of people, as an employer, as an entrepreneur, and as even an investor in startups, I can tell you the most important thing for your business is the quality of the quality of people. you hire. The best part is that great candidates are already on LinkedIn. Employees hired through LinkedIn are 30 % more likely to stick around for at least a year compared to those hired through the leading competitor. And I will tell you that the great thing about LinkedIn is that you're not just looking at random people. You're able to see the people who your friends and trusted peers and colleagues who they trust and who they've hired in the past and who they recommend.
0:42And hiring doesn't have to be complicated. Realistically, when you have a business to run, you don't want to spend hours on hiring. You want to hire the right person as quickly as possible. That's why LinkedIn Jobs AI Assistant suggests immediately 25 great big candidates daily so you can invite them to apply and keep things moving. Hire right the first time. Post your job for free at linkedin.com slash altature. then promote it to use LinkedIn Jobs' new AI assistant, making it easier and faster to find the top candidates. That's linkedin.com slash Altucher. Post your job for free. Terms and conditions apply.
1:19This isn't your average business podcast and he's not your average host. This is the James Altucher Show.
1:36I think the hardest thing to write in any kind of book, essay, article are the first line and the last line. And because the first line gets your attention and the writer is competing with TikTok and all social media and now AI and TV and everything. And the last line has to go boom. Like what you read was just worth it. And here's the last line to really put the imprint in your brain about what you just read. Yeah, I can't think of any satisfaction without a last line that's great. Yeah. I talked about Dennis Johnson's book of short stories. He's like, for me, the master of the last line. But almost every great book I've read, you could tell the author put a lot of thought.
2:27I mean, put a whole book's worth of thought into that last line. Well, you know what? Maybe we should have another podcast about last lines. we should definitely do an episode or two about last lines did i tell you this right like one time um and i feel sorry for this is like in 1994 i read a book with such a great last line i described the entire plot summary of the book to my girlfriend at the time just to tell her the last line thinking that she would be as excited about it as me i feel sorry i must have spent an hour describing this book just so i could tell her the last line and she was like wow that's a great last line but thinking back on it i'm sure she did not care at all about the last line
3:10was this the golden glove boxer no no this was pre that this is like my grad school girlfriend so well uh you're doing good james you're doing good you found the right woman yeah you know i actually i've never met your wife did you find the right woman you will You will. We're all going to get together. Yeah. You know, there's always these tournaments in Charlotte almost every weekend. It's like this. I would say it's the second best chess club in the U.S. right now. Charlotte? Yeah, Charlotte. Why? I think some very good enthusiasts moved there and encouraged other strong grandmasters to kind of be names for the club.
3:54And there's like tournaments all week long, every day. There's tournament tonight. Come on up. Yeah. There was just a really good one, actually, a very strong one that a former coach of mine played in. And they have one every now and then called Alto, which means, now I'm forgetting what it means, but it's basically the T-O means 21. So everyone's got to be over 21, which is good because older people don't like playing against kids because the kids are just zooming up the ranks and are obnoxious about it. So Charlotte has an over 21 tournament. That's very nice. Wow. So over 21 is considered like a golden oldies these days.
4:35Yeah. Well, there's also older than 50. Once again, I am the Georgia over 50 champion. There's the over 50 tournaments, which are even better for someone like me. But then again, I'm trying to get good against the latest generation. That's my goal. So it's not good for me if I only beat people over 50 years old. I won't have achieved my goal then. No, you got to pull this off. We got to take this as far as we can. Yeah. You know, it's funny. Again, you were recommending to me the movie Big George Foreman. And it was a great movie. I did not know George Foreman's story. You know, the most we know about George Foreman is really from the movie about when he and Muhammad Ali fought in Africa.
5:17And that was very much in favor of Muhammad Ali. He was incorrectly so. He was a big underdog. He's a big personality. He's a larger-than-life personality. The way he got Africa, essentially the whole continent, chanting for him to win was pretty remarkable. But it was nice to see George Foreman's side of that, and I'm glad they made that movie. Yeah, and few people realize, unless you're looking closely at the details, Foreman's fight with Ali is like a landmark at the center of his career. He seemed unbeatable at the time. I think he was something like 38-0 with 36 knockouts, something like that.
6:0440-0. He was 40-0. 40-0 with 38 knockouts. And then he falls victim to the rope-a-dope and can never seem to recover because it did something to him psychologically. And he was the quintessential bully in the ring who just imposed his will and he could hit so hard. They just took people out in a round or two. And when he couldn't take Ali out, Ali got to his mind, was talking to him. Come on, George, is that all you got? How could Ali handle all those punches? Like George Foreman was huge. And you see his punch was like, I mean, he knocked the punching bag off the, you know, thing that was holding it up.
6:53Like he was, how did Ali, who was smaller, handle just those massive punches? Well, there was an interesting line in the movie where they were preparing for the fight. And I think it was George who asked about Ali, who's like a handsome guy. And somebody said, ah, those pretty boys can't take a punch. And that was the thing that few people knew about Ali because, you know, his float like a butterfly sting like a bee. And he was moving around the ring, very hard to catch. so people didn't perceive that he could take a punch. But in that fight, he obviously knew what he was going to do. And he had seen tape early in George's career.
7:41There were a couple of fights where he had to go to the distance, like 10 rounds, and George was gassed at the end. And so he obviously had a plan that if I can make this guy punch himself out early, be able to take control toward the end of the fight, which is what he did. Very risky strategy, though. He basically put his arms in front of his body, and he probably moved fast enough that he could absorb a lot of the blow. Plus, being on the ropes, it allows you to relax a little bit. You're not worried about falling if you're on the ropes. Well, people at ringside were wincing. I remember watching the fight on closed circuit TV, in St.
8:25Louis, Missouri, people were like crying out of fear that because he wasn't moving. It was like, dance, dance, move. And it was just, we couldn't really see that he was, had his hands in front of his face. And it was just a little opening for him to say, that all you got, George? That all you got? And Forman's just wailing away, hitting his arms, his side, his belly, if he could get in there. And Ali just took it, took it, took it. And then on the third or the fourth round, all of a sudden the punch would come straight from Ali and hit George in the face. And you'd think like, wow, what's going on?
9:09Because George is throwing these wild circular shots, but Ali's was straight to the point. And then in the eighth round, connected, knocked Foreman down, Foreman was exhausted, couldn't get up, fight ends. And he is just not the same. And the interesting thing about the movie to me was how it showed how he changed his character. He, instead of being this demon that had all the people chanting against him, he went on to own that George Borman grill and be seen with a big smile on his face. You know, Ali was the funny one early on, but George learned to take a little of that with him. And that's what enabled them to have the comeback at a very late age.
10:14You know, and it's interesting, like there's categories like sports and also, I don't know how to describe these industries, but like math, where the peak age of a mathematician and this peak age of someone, you know, an athlete is probably around mid twenties, like 25. So like the peak age of someone playing major league baseball is probably around 25. Peak age of a boxer is probably around 25, give or take. Mathematician, peak age where you do your biggest work is around 25. And then the peak age for a writer, though, is – and like the peak age for a historian is in their 60s. Because, you know, yes, you can write a flashy, sharp, you know, eccentric, experimental novel in your 20s that uses all the flourish and new techniques and so on out of the sharpness of your brain when you're 25.
11:11But what really makes like a deeper novel is when you're older and you have a lot of experience and you're able to integrate things you've read from other books and ideas and really make a work of art. The same thing for a historian. You've read and absorbed so much history. You're able to see, oh, the development of the air conditioner is what created urbanization in the South. So now you're going to include that in a history that no one else has ever included before. And, you know, it's interesting. Like, I wonder for an athlete, how do you, like George Foreman, it was very hard for him to go past that peak age and realize that, oh, he's going to start losing now.
11:53Yeah. Interestingly, what he had to do is go on a comeback trail after he gained more than 100 pounds. And he'd been he lost all of his money through no fault of his own. It was basically, according to the movie, ripped off by kind of a shady business manager. I'm going to I'm going to question that a little bit. having had experience with this because everybody in my house while we were watching the movie was like, oh, you know, you shouldn't have gone with that guy. And I agree. His business manager lost all his money. But I think what happened was he was simply a bad business manager. He wasn't like, he didn't steal the money.
12:39There's no evidence that he stole the money. And this was during a time, 1973, where the U.S. economy was in a recession. The stock market crashed like 30%. So I think he just made bets that were too big. He had never been in an environment like that. And admittedly, he was a bad business manager that George Foreman shouldn't have picked. The guy was an alcoholic when George Foreman met him. But, you know, I think it's hard to judge. Yeah, I don't want to seem like I'm judging. I never met the guy. And, you know, also license is taken in a movie. Yeah. So I don't know if George actually strangled him when he found out and he caught up with him.
13:24And then he was torn because by that point, George had found God and Jesus wouldn't want him to be strangling the guy. Yeah. So you just see his movement from this force of nature that just had this tormented background to somebody who needed to learn how to smile, how to be kind. and that's when he loses all his money and has to go back to boxing after the age of 40 to try and make money and win back the title. And it's kind of like what you're doing in a sense where you're going back to something where everyone will just look and say, you're too old, what are you doing? Everything's changed.
14:28changed. Your body won't allow this. You're going to get beat up. And because he was able to change his attitude, he was able, and because he carefully crafted his comeback where he slowly moved from opponents who weren't very good on up the ladder, he put himself in a position where he could win the title. And even though he was getting beat up in that title bout, he was like wise enough and old enough to use the power that was God granted from the very beginning and land one shot on the jaw of Michael Moore and down Moore went. And the title was his again. And it's a beautiful moment. And I hope you have a similar moment on your journey into chess.
15:29I hope so too. And look, this is related to writing because I think a lot of people are already considered themselves writers. It's so easy to write now. The invention of the word processor in the 70s made it easier to write. And then the internet, of course, all information is at our fingertips. It's possible to publish, if not books, articles, blogs, all these things. And now it's easy to self-publish a book on Amazon. So suddenly everyone's a writer. But just like with boxing, boxing is not about fighting. It's about this carefully crafted martial art. We see this in the beginning of that movie, for instance, a good street fighter like Like George Foreman could not handle a mediocre boxer when he first began.
16:16So, and it's the same thing with writing. There is a beauty to the craft. And that's why we're doing this podcast, like on first lines, like to show our appreciation for great first lines from great writers, but to understand them so that maybe other people could begin their journey to be a great writer. Even if you understand a little bit about the craft of a first line, you're going to be a thousand times better writer than your competition.
16:54look as a manager of people as an employer as an entrepreneur and as even an investor in startups i can tell you the most important thing for your business is the quality of the people you hire the best part is that great candidates are already on LinkedIn. Employees hired through LinkedIn are 30 % more likely to stick around for at least a year compared to those hired through the leading competitor. And I will tell you that the great thing about LinkedIn is that you're not just looking at random people. You're able to see the people who your friends and trusted peers and colleagues who they trust and who they've hired in the past and who they recommend.
17:38And hiring doesn't have to be complicated. Realistically, when you have a business to run, you don't want to spend hours on hiring. You want to hire the right person as quickly as possible. That's why LinkedIn Jobs AI Assistant suggests immediately 25 great fit candidates daily so you can invite them to apply and keep things moving. Hire right the first time. Post your job for free at linkedin.com slash Altature. then promote it to use LinkedIn Jobs' new AI assistant, making it easier and faster to find the top candidates. That's linkedin.com slash Altachirk. Post your job for free. Terms and conditions apply.
18:13What can 160 years of experience teach you about the future? When it comes to protecting what matters, Pacific Life provides life insurance, retirement income, and employee benefits for people and businesses, building a more confident tomorrow. Strategies rooted in strength and backed by experience. Ask a financial professional how Pacific Life can help you today. Pacific Life Insurance Company, Omaha, Nebraska, and in New York. Pacific Life and Annuity, Phoenix, Arizona. I was going to ask you about this, Cal. Like, do you think writing is a competitive space? I think it's highly competitive to a lot of people.
18:55and then other people are simply competing with themselves. Give me an example of someone competing with themselves. Me. Okay. I just, I don't read something and think, oh my God, why didn't I write something better? Or, oh, I wish I could have had that title. I just feel like when I'm writing something, especially that I deemed important, like around 9-1-1, I did two stories that one, you could pick up 500 years from now in the words of a guy who had one of the towers fall on his head. His name is Michael Wright. You can pick it up a thousand years from now and know what that experience was like from the time that he walked into a bathroom to get started on his day till the end of the day.
20:10You just don't know how he's going to get through all the craziness because the building literally falls on top of his head. And he's thinking that he's going to be like one of those people in Pompeii after the volcano just erupted over the city. Did I get that right? Is it Pompeii? I'm thinking Pompeii. Yeah. And he's basically thinking that he's trapped underneath this rubble, that he's just going to be laying there knowing that nobody's ever going to discover him as the way he's going to die. And he actually lived to tell the story. And there are so many stages to it. and there's another story I did about being the sommelier at the top of the World Trade Center and that took me 10 years to write because I was so traumatized by the experience.
21:13I was the sommelier right before the planes came into the tower and it was just too close to write at the time. So I needed the space to do it and you can read it now and feel it. And if I go back, maybe on a different episode, I'll pull it up and we can look at the first line and the last line, but you'll see it has, I can be very pleased with, yes, that was the first sentence that I wanted. And that was the last sentence that I wanted. And it's interesting because I picked out a few books to go over with you. And one maybe people will never have heard of. It's a book called West with the Night.
22:13And it was written by Harold Markham. You remember that? No. Okay. So on the back, this is from a letter to Maxwell Perkins. This is Ernest Hemingway speaking. And Hemingway asked his editor, did you read Beryl Markham's book, West with the Night? I knew her fairly well in Africa and never would have suspected that she could and would put pen to paper except to write in her flyer's logbook. As it is, she has written so well and marvelously well that I was completely ashamed of myself as a writer. So obviously Hemingway was a competitive guy. He was very competitive. Like you could tell in A Movable Feast, which is memoir written in the 50s about his time in the 20s.
23:05He was very competitive with Fitzgerald. And there's another writer, the one he refers to as Robert Kahn in The Sun Also Rises. John Dos Passos. Is that? I don't think that's based on John Dos Passos because he was legitimately friends with John Dos Passos. And I don't think he viewed him as a threat, but he viewed F. Scott Fitzgerald as a threat. Yeah. As you can see, and I don't know why, you're also, if you look at the back of this book, there's a photo of a plane that has gone into a nosedive and smashed its nose right into the ground. So, you know, this Hemingway had a marvel at this woman because she was flying around Africa in like in the 30s, maybe even in the, yeah, I think it was the 30s.
24:00Could have been the late 20s and like delivering the mail and transporting people around. It must have been amazing for people to see this woman at the time and for her to come at the experience. And I'll read you the opening line in a second with just a simple question. And in a way that's just so simple and easy and inviting, that it left Hemingway saying, I felt that I was simply a carpenter with words, picking up whatever was furnished on the job and nailing them together and sometimes making an okay pig pen. But she can write rings around all of us who consider ourselves as writers. That's interesting that Hemingway said that.
25:00I mean, A, he must have really appreciated her writing. And at the same time, perhaps because she was a woman and he was a notable sexist, he probably didn't view her as a threat. Yeah. And the fact that she was flying around Africa and nose diving into the ground, you know, alone, it must, she must have really gotten his respect on every level. But the book is that good. And it basically disappeared for like 40 years and was sort of resurrected in the late 70s. And I'll read you the opening line. This is a very simple question. How is it possible to bring order out of memory? yeah that's so interesting because a it's relatable in that we all have memories and but but sometimes when we're trying to organize those memories to tell a story or to tell what happened it it's a our memories might be wrong and and we we a b we might forget c how do we organize it so that we tell an interesting story.
26:17And, you know, like, like 9-11 being a good example, where do you start? Do you start with the sommelier, you know, doing something in the restaurant? Do you start with, you know, the events of the day? I mean, it's hard to take a very complicated situation or an adventure and turn it into a story. Yeah, that's why a first sentence is so important because it serves as a navigational tool. And also, there's an interesting point there when she says, how is it possible to bring order out of memory? I think the assumption always is that it's easy to bring order out of memory. And yet, when we really think about it, so many times, like something that happened to you, Cal, Well, I just had this discussion with someone today.
27:10Oh, remember that time we, I had this discussion with my wife. I'll say that. Remember that time we, you know, argued heatedly about this one thing. And she said, no, I don't remember. That never happened. So it's possible for two people to have completely different memories. Like I remember clear as day, but she doesn't. And it reminds me of that book, Being Wrong by Katherine Schultz. You know that book? I've heard of it. I've not read it. Well, in her TED Talk, she says something very interesting. And I'll ask you this question. What does it feel like to be wrong? And I'm asking you this. Probably at first, you go through stages probably.
27:52At first, maybe a little disbelief. Okay, just stop right there. Her response to that, to your answer would be, that's what it feels like when you realize you were wrong. But actually what it feels like when you're wrong is the exact feeling that you feel when you're right, because you don't know yet that you're wrong. When you first say something and you're wrong, you think you're right. And so you don't think you're wrong. So it feels the exact same way as it feels when you're right. And her point is, is that people, even when they're wrong, they're very much convinced that they're right. And this was the genesis of her book is that she would bring up experiences with people she knew.
28:38And sometimes they would be completely different. Like one woman had said to her, oh, I'm always sad about my dad's funeral. I remember it was snowing that day and blah, blah, blah. And Catherine reminded her it was July, your dad's funeral. It couldn't have been snowing. And the girl was like, are you sure? I can remember the snow. And so people, memory is a tricky thing. And so this woman addresses that, you know, Beryl Markham, the author of West with the Night, the book you're bringing up, addresses that immediately. How is it possible to bring order out of memory? And since we started speaking, I ordered this book on Kindle.
29:13So now I'm looking at it. And she continues, I should like to begin at the beginning, patiently, like a weaver at his loom. I should like to say, this is the place to start. There can be no other, but there are a hundred places to start. And that's true for every story. And so what she's doing here, she's addressing right up top many things. One is that this is a very, not a complicated story, but that there's lots of things that happened. There are lots of adventures we could go through. And I could enter this adventure in many ways. Like she says, there are a hundred places to start for there are a hundred names, Mwanza, Serengeti, Nungwe, Molo, Nakura.
29:54There are easily a hundred names and I could begin best by choosing one of them, not because it is first nor of any importance in a wildly adventurous sense, but because here it happens to be turned uppermost in my logbook. So she's being humble about it that, you know, I really don't know where to start. I'm going to have to start someplace. Any place is as good as any other. And then we'll begin this wildly adventurous story. So she's explaining her craftsmanship and at the same time setting up the reader to realize, hey, you're in for a wild ride because there's lots of names. Notice she brings up all the names, not saying, oh my gosh, I have so many great things to tell you about all these names.
30:37She's addressing it in a different way. Like, I don't know where to start because there's all these names. And so that's our way of getting into her world a little bit. Yeah. And well, you can imagine walking into a bar if you've heard, Oh, James, you've got to meet this woman. This is a fantastic storyteller. You're going in with a passion and you can't wait to hear all these stories. And that's kind of what she's doing there. Even though you don't know what Wanza, Serengeti, Nungwe, Molo, Nakuro mean, you know there's stories behind all of them. and you realize that there are almost 290 pages of these stories coming.
31:31And it just makes you feel a good time is on the way. And it's interesting, like the way you just described, like a similar setting, like, hey, come in here. There's a great storyteller I want you to meet or a great story you have to hear. She doesn't say that. Like she is being very humble rather than saying, oh my gosh, these great things happened to me in Wanza, Serengeti, Nungwi, Molo, Nakura. She's saying, I could, there's a hundred names here. I could begin with any one of them. She's being very humble about it. Later on in that paragraph, she says, after all, I am no weaver. Weavers create, this is a remembrance, revisitation.
Read the full transcript
32:11And names are keys that open corridors no longer fresh in the mind, but nonetheless familiar in the heart. So like if you ask me, if you say to me 9-11, okay, it brings up a lot of memories for everybody. It brings up a lot of memories. But if you were actually to tell the story, your story on 9-11, there's many places I could start. Like for me, myself, I was in the World Trade Center in the basement, or not in the basement, but on the first floor at the Dean and DeLuca. I had breakfast there. I was leaving the World Trade Center when the plane was coming across. Or I could describe what my family was doing then.
32:46or I could describe the exact moment when the plane passed overhead. There's, you know, but 9-11 is that key that opens up those memories. And from there, I've got to figure out where the story is, how to navigate this as a story. And then I want to just add, this is fascinating. She plays with format. So a lot of times she's doing several things in this first page. One is she's speaking at a meta level. She's not writing the story yet. she's writing about how she's trying to organize the memory. So, so all we're knowing so far is this is the story of her writing this story. Like, how is it possible being ordered out of memory?
33:24She doesn't say I was on my way to Nengue and this happened. And then she plays with format again. And, and this reminds me of Charles Bukowski's post office, uh, in a little way, which we'll get to some other time. But instead of just saying, I'm on my way to Nengue, she talks about basically, it's almost like she switches to a screenplay format, which starts off in this very formal, almost bureaucratic way, like date, 16, 635, type aircraft, Avro Avion, markings, VP, con, journey, Nairobi to Nungwe, time, three hours, 40 minutes. After that comes pilot, self, and remarks of which there were none, but there might've been.
34:11And so now we're starting to get into a little bit the story. And so it's very important. I think this is, when we saw this in the last episode, we went from third person to first person plural, which is an odd person. And I forget what book we were talking about, to be honest, but she's doing the same thing here. She's going from this meta first person. Hi there, I'm telling a story to this very, very extremely distant third person, which is simply, we don't even know who the person is. She's describing almost like it's a form, what the trip was and the type of aircraft and the date in this very formal way.
34:58And then suddenly we get back to remarks of which there were none. and the of which, she doesn't say none, she say of which there were none. And then finally, boom, but there might've been. And now we know we're in for the ride. And get this, you turn the page and here is a sentence kind of worthy of a first sentence. She says, none way may be dead and forgotten now. It was barely alive when I went there in 1935. And so you're wondering, what happened there? What, this place may be impossible to retrieve. And unless I read this, like, I'll never get there. yeah and and and she's saying unless i write this it might not be a memory for anybody anymore that's so so when she starts off how how is it possible to bring order out of memory she might be talking about her memories but she's also implying that nungwe itself might just be a memory and in fact nungwe is i didn't i didn't know what nungwe was nungwe doesn't exist anymore So how do you bring order out of a place that is basically, she even says, maybe dead and forgotten, and it was barely alive.
36:29And then she starts off with almost like a history lesson, the way James Michener, like when he writes his book, Alaska, he writes about what it was like in the dinosaur ages. and then how he goes all the way back. And she's saying Nungwe essentially, she describes geographically where it was. Again, there's this odd formality for a story. And then she contrasts that with, it was a weary and discouraged prospector one day saw a speck of gold clinging to the mud on the heel of his boot. And that story of that prospector is what separates Nungwe from Nairobi because Nungwe became a place because it became a place where people searched for gold, I'm assuming.
37:12And so we start with this history rather than her story. We only know about her is that she went there in 1935. We don't know why yet, but we know more about this prospector started a country because he probably started a gold rush there. You just got to keep reading. Yeah, because now we're seeing layers.
37:37We're the fact that there is a gold rush part of her story. By the way, she then say his name eludes the memory, but he was not a secretive man. So again, now her memory, and by the way, this is a very important thing about writing. Like, you know, like I'm writing about, for instance, this journey I'm on of trying to get better at something as an adult, something I loved as a child, trying to make a comeback at something. And I've had amazing adventures along the way. But so people are asking me, are you journaling this so that you have stuff, so you remember everything, so you have stuff to write about?
38:13And I specifically don't journal because if I don't remember it, it's probably not worth writing about. You know what? That is, I can remember, you remember, I don't know if you remember the writer Harry Cruz? Yeah, yeah. Harry Cruz, gosh. Oh, what did he, I remember, to be honest, I remember starting something he wrote, but I don't think I ever finished it. And this was back in the 90s. I remember specifically starting. Feast of Snakes. I got one of his books. He actually has an interesting first line in his autobiography. It's called The Childhood, The Biography of a Place. And let's see what that first line was.
39:10So here's his first sentence in A Childhood, the biography of a place. My first memory is of a time 10 years before I was born. And the memory takes place where I have never been and involves my daddy whom I never knew. Yeah, again. You gotta go. The unreliability of memory is such a beautiful thing because do we then read him? Why do you read an unreliable narrator? Because they're admitting that they're unreliable. Right. And I guess we relate to unreliability. That's why I don't journal. Because if all your memory is perfect, then you're not really writing in the first person. You're sort of writing in the third person and that third person still is I.
40:03It almost seems first person, but it's not really I because you're just you're rewriting something a different you wrote in a journal. Well, let me tell you why Harry Cruz never kept a journal.
40:19After I read a couple of his books, I became fascinated with him and said, man, I got to go meet this guy. And he was a professor at the University of Florida in Gainesville. I don't know that he was very professorial. I think it was more like a bunch of students went over to his house and they might have read their manuscripts or maybe he read. I was never in on any of the classes. But I immediately drove down to see him after being warned that if you're going to meet him, be prepared for a lot of drinking and a lot of drugs. And in fact, one guy was telling me about an experience he had where things kind of got out a hand.
41:20And the line I remember was in this alcoholic, drug, phantasmagoric lostness. He remembered Harry saying to him, we must listen to the dark voices of the blood. And so I had a little trepandation when I drove down to see Harry. I didn't know where this was going. And I drove straight to his house. I don't even know how I got his address. I might've gone over to the school and they told me this is back in early eighties. And so I show up at his front door and I could see that he is like in kind of a lazy boy chair with like a pretty much an empty liquor bottle on his belly. And I, I'm knocking and he's just like far gone.
42:22He's asleep. And so finally I just go in and that like, as I get close, I don't know if I said anything or he just, his eyes open and he just like asked me what I was doing. And I said, you know, I, I just drove a thousand miles to meet you. And he said, boy, and he just reached into his pocket. I think he pulled out a$50 bill and said something like, go down to the Gator Gulch and just tell him Harry sent you. And I did. And they just sent me back with a carton full of alcohol. And we just started to drink. And the more we drank, the more my senses started to head off. And the more he drank, the more focused he seemed to be getting, at which point he started pulling out all these pills.
43:23And I said to him, Harry, I think it was I was getting to the point where I realized this is going to a place like that I may never remember. And I said to him, how do you write? Like drinking and doing all these drugs. How can you remember anything? And I love the line he came back with. He said, boy, he told me he didn't keep a diary just like you. And then he said, when I asked why, he said, boy, the good shit sticks. Yeah, it's really true. And by the way, oh, go ahead. Sorry. Well, it's interesting because the very next section after the first section in this book, the childhood, the biography of a place, which I love that title too, the biography of a place, because usually you say biography about a human and history about a place.
44:35So I like how he says the biography of a place. But anyway, the very next section, and this relates to Beryl Markham's first line in the book we started with, the very next section in Harry Crew's book is, so he tells a little story, by the way, in that first section after the first line there. And then he says, did what I have set down here as memory actually happen? Did the two men say what I have recorded, think what I have said they thought? I do not know, nor do I any longer care. And so what he's teaching us how to read his book is that this sequence of events didn't necessarily happen. He's admitted, he's an unreliable narrator, but this is what he believes the events are.
45:23The events are gonna form a good story that we're gonna read. and whether they are true or not, they're important enough to him that they're going to be important to us. And that's how to read him, is that we're basically going to read a story that he thinks defines his life and that's why it's important. Not whether it happened or not, but because these memories, whether they're true or not, define his entire life and are probably as close as possible to real truth as he can get. and so I think I think this idea of teaching one how to read you like Beryl Markham sort of doing that in her book by saying she's trying very hard to organize these memories and we just have to deal with it because she's going to tell them the best way possible she's teaching us how to read her And in both cases, you have to go along.
46:22You're immediately smitten. And both of them are taking you to places that you have no idea of. And why are we smitten? Like, why is it important for them to tell us? For instance, why is it important for Harry Cruz to say, this memory might not have happened? And why is it important for Beryl Markham to say, to make her observations that it's hard to organize memory? Why don't they just tell the story? I think it's what makes them great writers. Now, you know what? I'm going to just introduce another book here. And it's a book about place. Very different from a child, but by Harry Cruz. It's called The Time of Gifts by Patrick Lee Firmer.
47:15And this guy, right around the time that Beryl Markham was flying around her airplane in Africa, around Kenya and what was then Tanganyika and Sudan, this guy, Patrick Lee Firmer, he got basically thrown out of school when he was 18 in England. and he decides to walk from the hook of Holland to Constantinople, 1933. Wow. 1933. So you're basically walking through from the Allies to the Axies right before World War II. And what happens is, in another case, the world is never going to be the same. when he gets done with this trip. And it takes three books to record it all. The second was Between the Woods and the Water.
48:16And that's when he goes from Hungary to Romania. And the third is The Broken Road when he goes from Romania to Constantinople. But he is literally much like Beryl Markham, traveling through a place that will never be the same again because World War II is going to remake it and the world is going to be different. And he basically starts this book, and this is very light in English. A splendid afternoon to set out, said one of the friends who was seeing me off. peering at the rain and rolling up the window. It's just, I mean, it couldn't be more simple, but you know he's going off and you know it's raining.
49:18Right. And by the way, so A, there's so many things in that line too. A, this is a friend who is basically lying to him. Splendid the day to go off. Whether he's lying or just being nice, we don't know. But we know it's not a splendid day because he's rolling up his window and it's raining. And then also, this reminds me of a big Hemingway technique. It was great weather, but the fog is close. You know that it's foreshadowing that bad things are about to happen. And so his first line is kind of foreshadowing what he's not directly saying, which is that bad things are going to happen. And the beauty is he's going to get through the rain with that same cheer.
50:05I remember reading this book while I was traveling through Hungary in the 80s before the Berlin Wall came down. And you know what? I could say the same for myself because, I mean, I don't think Hungary is the same place as it was back then. For somebody from the United States to be moving through it, I was invited wherever I went. and people were very curious to practice their English. And there was, look, this Soviet Union basically had dominance over this area. And just to the south, Romania was run by the dictator Ceausescu. And there, man, people were actually scared to talk to me. Really?
51:07Because they thought they'd get in trouble? Yeah, they thought it might be a death sentence or prison, certainly. So it's interesting, like, you know, one other thing I like about the unreliable narrator, and that last writer you talk about, what was his name again? Can you tell me? Sure. Patrick Lee, L-E-I-G-H, Fermer, F-E-R-M-O-R. So he is not necessarily unreliable, but the fact that the universe of the book has both put in our minds that it's a splendid day and that it's raining. So the book itself, we understand now, is going to be contradictions. And with the Meryl Barkham book and the Harry Cruz book, we're dealing specifically with this, you know, with Harry Cruz, this memory may or may not be true, but it doesn't matter to me.
52:06And with Meryl Barkham, we're realizing she's trying to figure out side by side with us how to organize a memory. So we're kind of going on this journey with her together in a perhaps unreliable way. But what I like about these things as a first sentence is that it requires us, the reader, right in the beginning to surrender ourselves that things are going to happen. And part of this is they might be surreal so that we don't really know if they're happening or not, or they might seem almost magical and or out of order in some way. But we're going to go on this journey with this author and we're surrendering, whether she's reliable or unreliable, we're surrendering to her direction on how to read this.
52:54And that's very different from, let's say, a James Patterson book about the latest thriller he writes. And I'm not criticizing him. I love James Patterson books. But if there's a fact wrong in a James Patterson book, that will be disruptive to our experience. whereas something is wrong in one of these books. It's not disruptive. It's sort of part of the story that there's going to be a tinge of unreliability to it. And that's a technique, which I think, which is a great technique. Yeah, and not only that, but from the time that you look at the cover to this book, okay, so we just read the first sentence.
53:35I'm going to put up this cover. It's a time of gifts, and you see like a long road leading to a brilliant sun. And the title is A Time of Gifts. And so it seems a very happy, it looks very happy. And you want to get on that road to get to the sun. And then you read the first sentence and you're realizing, well, the sun may be there, But there's going to be some rain in between. And all through, the book is just filled with both and the kindness of strangers that push the journey on and that literally push the reader on. Because it's not like the other books. It's more like a travel book that is showing a world that is no longer here.
54:40And in fact, none of these worlds are here anymore. Right. It's interesting. So that's like the very first book, Meryl Barkham. She's not only organizing a memory about her story, but organizing a memory or how she perceives a time that no longer exists. Same as this guy, Patrick Lee Fermer. You know, and I want to just close with one more thing. Like, let's say someone's reading this and says, well, that's all good and fine for fiction. And it sounds very, you know, sophisticated kind of fiction. But I write books about business self-help books about leadership. What does this apply to me? Well, here, I'll just make up, you know, probably a bad first line.
55:24But if I was to write like a book about leadership and business, maybe I would start off something like, you know, every employee I've ever had will not agree with anything I write in this book. And so now it's like, well, who's right? Are the employees right? Or am I right? And, and, and why am I telling you this? Why don't they agree with me? Or I might even go even one step further. Like my memory of leadership might be completely different than how every employee I've ever had remembers it. And so I'm directly addressing again, the nature of memory in an individual's story, that we all have our own perspective.
56:01And yet I feel my perspective is worthy enough to read that someone might learn about leadership or at least have a different opinion about leadership. And that's how I would start a business self-help book. And my point is, is that all writing requires craftsmanship, whether you're writing a business book, a history book, a novel, a thriller. And I think a lot of people are not aware of that. And it's worthwhile being at least aware of that. You don't have to be the greatest craftsman to write a book, but just be aware that there is skill to writing a book and there's storytelling and whether it's nonfiction or fiction and respect that.
56:40I'm begging you just because as the reader of these books, I want you to be a better writer, the listener. I want you to be a great writer. And that's why we're doing this podcast series. But Cal, thank you once again for, I just ordered that Meryl Barkham book and the Harry Cruz book and the Patrick Lee Fermer book. So I'm looking forward to reading them. Well, when you just get to that back cover and you read what Hemingway has to say about Beryl Barkham, you and anybody else listening is going to know that this should be on everybody's bookshelf. And I would say the same about the other two books we mentioned.
57:26But you want to know something? If we have another conversation on the topic, I'm going to go and look at business books so I can address some of the points you were making at the end of the conversation. Because I grew up reading fiction and I've come to business books later in life. so I'm going to study those lines in fact when for the most part when I've read a business book I haven't expected much out of that first line right and so look I'm now very curious to see how many people how many of the writers step up to it yeah you know it's an interesting experience doing that I read a lot of business books because of the podcast and because of my own experiences as a business person.
58:20And when I write, when I wrote about business, I would often try to do, use a literary style. And by literary, I don't mean, you know, fancy literature. I just mean in a writing style. I always tried to do that with my business related articles or books. And I think that's why they often stood out and people would say, like, I used to write for TechCrunch. And And often the first comment of any article I would write for TechCrunch is, what the hell did I just read? And then people would literally argue about my style in the comments. Instead of arguing about Apple's earnings in the comments, they would argue about, like, is this style appropriate for, like, a business or entrepreneurship blog?
59:05And I think when people discuss something like that, that means it was worth it. And that's the point. um you know and i'll okay i'll really close this with a quote by ernest hemingway so he said this to an aspiring writer you shouldn't write if you can't write and he's not saying everybody should write like him he's just saying respect the craft and i think by doing this series it allows me and i know you cal to express our love for the craft but also maybe you know explain a little about the craft, assuming we know anything, which is a big assumption. But I hope that people enjoy this as much as we enjoy doing it.
59:50I certainly hope so. I can't wait for the next one. I will come back full of business book savvy. Excellent. Thank you.
1:00:10You
From the publisher
"How is it possible to bring order out of memory?"This quote begins Beryl Markham's West with the Night, the memoirs of the first woman to fly solo across the Atlantic from East to West."I should like to begin at the beginning patiently like a weaver at his loom. I should like to say this is the place to start. There can be no other, but there are a hundred places to start."Today, James and Cal Fussman return for another episode of "Hooked on the First Line", where they each bring to the table books that had them hooked from page one.Cal Fussman and James Altucher engage in a deep exploration of the art of writing, examining how first and last lines, personal experiences, and storytelling techniques shape a writer's work and influence the reader's experience. They discuss specific examples from literature, including the works of Ernest Hemingway, and relate these concepts to broader themes like memory, personal growth, and the diversity of writing styles across different fields.-----------Episode Summary:Importance of First and Last Lines in Writing [00:00:30]: The discussion begins with the significance of the first and last lines in writing, their impact on readers, and the challenge of competing with modern distractions.Reflections on Personal Life and Chess [00:02:18 - 00:03:56]: Personal anecdotes about past relationships, chess playing, and the influence of sports and activities on personal growth are shared.Discussion on George Foreman and Muhammad Ali [00:03:56 - 00:09:10]: They delve into the lives and careers of George Foreman and Muhammad Ali, discussing their iconic fight and their impact on their careers and personalities.Peak Ages in Different Professions [00:09:10 - 00:10:54]: The conversation shifts to the concept of peak ages in various professions, including sports, mathematics, and writing, and the importance of experience in artistic fields.George Foreman's Career and Personal Transformation [00:10:54 - 00:14:30]: Fussman recounts George Foreman's career, his comeback in boxing, and how he transformed his public persona.Writing Craft and First Lines [00:14:39 - 00:16:11]: The discussion focuses on the art of writing, the importance of first lines, and how it sets the tone for a story or a piece of writing.Cal Fussman's Personal Writing Experiences [00:16:11 - 00:19:21]: Fussman shares his experiences with writing, particularly on significant events like 9/11, emphasizing the importance of both the first and last lines in storytelling.Analysis of Hemingway's Work and Other Literature [00:19:21 - 00:22:55]: The conversation shifts to Ernest Hemingway's work and his thoughts on other writers, including "West with the Night" by Beryl Markham and analysis of various books and their opening lines.Exploring Memory and Storytelling [00:22:55 - 00:28:51]: The interview touches on the themes of memory, storytelling, and how writers use their experiences to craft narratives.Discussion on Business Books and Writing Styles [00:28:51 - 00:57:12]: The dialogue expands to include different writing styles and the importance of craftsmanship in writing across genres. After a discussion about journaling, Cal discusses Harry Crews and his memoir "A Childhood: The Biography of a Place". They explore how the principles of storytelling and narrative structure apply to various forms of writing, including business and self-help genres."A Time of Gifts" by Patrick Leigh Fermor [00:45:10]: Fussman describes Fermor's journey from Holland to Constantinople in 1933 and the impact of this journey on the world and literature, noting that it took three books to capture the experience. The second book mentioned is "Between the Woods and the Water," detailing Fermor's travels from Hungary to Romania,Discussion on Business Books [00:54:25]: Towards the end of the conversation, Fussman reflects on business books, contrasting them with fiction, which...
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