How to Live the Constitution: AJ Jacobs' Ultimate Guide to America's Founding Document

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1:25The Year of Living Constitutionally. Well, I told you this episode happened when we did the episode with AJ last week, but this is a book by AJ Jacobs. the Year of Living Constitutionally, where he not only researched and wrote about the Constitution, and I learned so many things I had no idea about, but he lived life for a year as if he was in 1790 living the life, word for word, literally, of the U.S. Constitution. And he carried a musket around. He applied to be a pirate in Congress because if you did not know, in Article I of the U.S. Constitution, it gives Congress the power to make pirates and so many other things.

2:08There's so many facts, debates, information, what sort of new powers the Supreme Court took, Congress took, the president took. What's the pros and cons of states' rights versus federal rights? What's the reason for this amendment, that amendment? And there's so many things I didn't know about. And of course, the debates about the electoral college. So here's, and AJ not only researched it, like I said, he lived it. And I did a podcast last week about the AJ method, a very unique method of living the story so that you could, and it turns out to be a great formula to make bestsellers. And now he applies his, his humor, his talent, his, uh, information with it to, to the U S constitution, the year of living constitutionally one man's humble quest to follow the constitution's original meeting.

2:56And here's my good friend, AJ Jacobs.

3:03This isn't your average business podcast and he's not your average host. This is the James Altucher Show.

3:20First off, I do have to ask, how are things going? All good? Overall, pretty good. overall, you know, I'd say 51 % positive, which is all that I can ask for. What's negative? Oh, you know, my parents are old and my kids are applying to college, which I know you say where they shouldn't do. So that would solve things. That would be happy. How about you? How are you overall? 51? Good. Yeah, everything's good. I actually want to ask your advice on something, but I'll do it another time. It's a writing question. Oh, I would love to answer. Well, I can do it later this afternoon or tomorrow. We should do a Zoom lunch sometime.

4:03I'm ready. Yeah. All right. I'll reach out next week and we'll schedule something. Perfect. We got to get your book out. You got to get your book released first. God bless you. So, AJ, the Year of Living Constitutionally, from the man who wrote The Year of Living Biblically and many other, like you're, I love, we've talked about this before, but I love your whole style of experiencing things rather than just researching things. Well, thank you. I do. I love to, sort of a method writer. I like to immerse myself and live the topic. Yeah, like when you wrote The Year of Living Biblically, which is like your classic example of this, and then you have My Year Eating Healthy.

4:45I forget the exact title. Right. You know, you were yearling biblically. You described some of the things you did. Yeah. No, I went hardcore. I decided to follow every rule in the Bible as literally as possible. So I did the famous ones like the Ten Commandments. But there are hundreds of other more obscure ones. So I couldn't wear clothes made of two different kinds of fabrics. That's forbidden, according to the Old Testament. Why is that forbidden, according to the Old Testament? There's usually some reason. Well, no one really knows. I mean, there are all these theories, like maybe the people who did the shepherding hated the people who were farmers, so they didn't want to mix.

5:28No one really knows. So that's true of a lot of these laws. But I was like, I'm following them. I don't care. And stoning adulterers. I did stone adulterers with a very small stone. You stoned adulterers. You refused to sit on the same chairs as your wife while she was menstruating. Exactly. That's in there, too. It became impure. And the idea was follow everything without picking and choosing, sort of become the ultimate fundamentalist literalist to see what works and what doesn't, to see at the end what I thought of religion, what I thought of the Bible, what I could take with me to make my life better, which it did have like gratitude and various other things that did improve my life.

6:14So I thought, I'm like, you know what? I need to do a sequel because the Constitution I knew very little about. And yet every day for the last five years, it's in the headlines. This 230 year old document has a huge impact on my life, on millions of other lives, on how we live, who we marry. And I thought, okay, I'm going to do the same thing. I am going to try to understand the Constitution by following the original meaning from 1789. So I did. I bore a musket, an 18th century musket around New York City. Now, did you need a special permit for that? So you carried a musket around with you. Now, guns are like open carry guns.

7:03I don't even know if that's considered an open carry gun, but is that legal in New York City? Well, I found a little loophole on that one because it is considered an antique until it's loaded. Then it becomes a weapon. So I had an unloaded musket. So if anyone tried to mug me, it would not have done much good. But I did eventually go and shoot it at a shooting range with some reenactors. But that was just one part. That was I also gave up social media and instead wrote pamphlets with a quill pen and handed them out on the street. And I applied to Congress to become a legal pirate, as is my constitutional right.

7:44So all of these things. And the whole idea was, at the end, hopefully I would be more empowered. I would know and understand when people brought up the Constitution what the real truth was. And I do believe that was, I feel, much better. And I also wanted to know, should I be optimistic about democracy? Are we really in trouble? Is this the end? And so that's the point. I hope readers, when they read it, that they will feel empowered and hopefully optimistic. Not to do a spoiler, but I am more optimistic about democracy than I was. Well, when reading your book, there's two things I noticed. One is, well, actually, first I want to ask you.

8:32So in Article 1 of the Constitution, so the first article, which describes how Congress is made and how it works and what powers they have, I think it's Article 1 or Article 2, I don't know. That's it. It talks about you could, Congress can appoint people to privateer, to basically be a pirate. I did not know this about the Constitution. Yeah, it's not very well known. I mean, most people have not read the Constitution. That's according to polls. And so I first had to sit down and read it. And there were these parts that were super inspiring, like about equal protection and the common good. But then there are parts that are like, what?

9:12And it was written in the 18th century. And then privateers, which are legal pirates, were a huge deal. because in the revolution, America had no navy, very little navy, so they outsourced it. They said, if you're a fisherman, a private citizen, and want to put a cannon on your boat and go chase down British ships and keep all of the merchandise, the booty, then you can do that, and we will grant you permission. And it's still in the constitution. There's not been a legal pirates since 1815. They haven't granted. But I'm like, this is my job. You know, I am trying to follow the real literal constitution and it's still in there.

9:58So I actually met with a congressman, Ro Khanna, and I presented him with my application. The official term is letter of mark and reprisal. And I had on my tricorn hat and I had the whole deal. He was at first interested. He was psyched because he's like, let's make this happen. Then when I explained to him exactly, like I would be going out on my friend's water ski boat to like attack ships in the Taiwan Straits or whatever. He was like, okay, let's slow down. Let's slow down. Maybe this is not. So I'm still waiting for it to be approved. But the point was to try to show there are all these parts of the constitution we don't know about.

10:42Everyone says they know what the Constitution says, but we really don't, or I certainly didn't, and most people haven't even read it. Well, look at all the confusion in 2020. Like, what happens if a president and vice president or if their electors are not, you know, ratified in time of the inauguration? Nobody really knew the answer. No. Well, the Constitution is only four pages long. I mean, they're big pages with small writing. But it only takes 20 minutes to read. And so you cannot fit into four pages all of the thousands, millions of scenarios that are going to come up. So that is why there are always going to be these debates.

11:29And the question is, who decides it? Is it the Supreme Court, which is what we have now, these nine unelected people? As you can tell from the way I phrase that, I'm not a huge fan of the fact that nine unelected people can tell us what is in the Constitution and what is not. I think the founders did not intend for that to happen either. Are you sure? Because, look, at least the Federalists were a little bit nervous about democracy, right? They didn't want everybody with a farm or whatever to decide the future of the world. They wanted themselves and people like themselves to decide the future of the world, hence the Electoral College, hence the Senate.

12:18So I think the interesting thing about the Constitution, and a lot of it, which I read in the book, was A, how amorphous the document was. Like that, that four pages basically defined a system of making laws that has lasted and survived and flourished for the past, you know, whatever, 250, how many years is it now? I don't even know. 230 plus. Yeah. Yeah. 230 years. So with all the problems it's survived and it's worked. But the other thing is, is how many are, how many things I didn't know were actually debated? Like I didn't know it was debated. Hey, let's get rid of all states. for instance.

12:57Oh, yeah, that was interesting. Alexander Hamilton at one point in the Constitutional Convention said, maybe these states are a bad idea. It's confusing. Why should we have two different governments? And he later said he was sort of just kidding. He was misunderstood. But just to go back to a couple of your points really quickly. One, you're absolutely right. They were afraid back then of what they called the mob, which is pure democracy. So they built in these sort of counter-majoritarian systems like the Electoral College. But at the same time, they did not want the Supreme Court to be as powerful as it was.

13:45Congress was the number one. Congress was first among equals. Congress had all the power. And the president was much weaker and the Supreme Court was much weaker. So if they came back now, they would be like, what? The Supreme Court has final say and the president is doing hundreds of executive orders every year. So we do not live in a very originalist America. We live, for better or worse, and I think in some ways it's better, in some ways it's worse. This is a very different system than the one the founders envisioned. But who would, like, let's say a law was passed and it was unconstitutional, as has often happened.

14:29Who would decide? It doesn't seem specified who would decide that something was unconstitutional. It makes sense that the court would decide it. Well, you're right. It doesn't say. And in the beginning, and this is a lot from a great professor named Jonathan Gnapp at Stanford. it was much more all three branches would weigh in but it was never assumed and Supreme Court had judicial review so they would weigh in but it was never assumed that they were the end all be all that they had the final say and so yeah the founders would be quite shocked by what is happening today but I could see how it could be extrapolated out that look the Constitution is a legal document that specifies laws.

15:16For instance, you're breaking the law if you don't allow someone to have freedom of speech. You're breaking the law according to the Constitution. And since the Supreme Court is the supreme arbiter of the law, it makes sense that they are the final say in terms of interpreting the Constitution. Well, it makes sense to us now, but it is not the way that it was originally. When there was the case, John Marshall is known as a guy who kind of very early on, he was a chief justice, and he was one of the ones who said the Supreme Court has the power to say what's constitutional. But he even he only overturned one law from Congress, whereas, and there were none overturned for decades.

16:03Now the Supreme Court regularly overturns laws. So it is quite a shocking difference.

16:13take a quick break if you like this episode i'd really really appreciate it it means so much to me please share it with your friends and subscribe to the podcast email me at alcatra gmail.com and tell me why you subscribed thanks

16:34look as a manager of people as an employer as an entrepreneur and as even an investor in startups I can tell you the most important thing for your business is the quality of the people you hire. The best part is that great candidates are already on LinkedIn. Employees hired through LinkedIn are 30 % more likely to stick around for at least a year compared to those hired through the leading competitor. And I will tell you that the great thing about LinkedIn is that you're not just looking at random people. you're able to see the people who your friends and trusted peers and colleagues who they trust and who they've hired in the past and who they recommend.

17:17And hiring doesn't have to be complicated. Realistically, when you have a business to run, you don't want to spend hours on hiring. You want to hire the right person as quickly as possible. That's why LinkedIn Jobs AI Assistant suggests immediately 25 great big candidates daily so you can invite them to apply and keep things moving. Hire right the first time. Post your job for free at linkedin.com slash Altature, then promote it to use LinkedIn Jobs' new AI assistant, making it easier and faster to find the top candidates. That's linkedin.com slash Altature. Post your job for free. Terms and conditions apply.

17:53This message comes from Capital One. The Capital One Venture X business card has no preset spending limit, so the card's purchasing power can adapt to meet business needs. Plus, the card earns unlimited double miles on every purchase, so the more a business spends, the more miles earned. And when traveling, the VentureX Business Card grants access to over a thousand airport lounges. The VentureX Business Card, what's in your wallet? Terms and conditions apply. Find out more at CapitalOne.com slash VentureXBusiness. Not to dive into the weeds of history, but like take the Alien and Sedition Acts that John Adams passed.

18:31Basically said, you weren't allowed to criticize government or you can go to jail. And he'd use that to put like journalists in jail. Yeah. So that's clearly unconstitutional. It's against the First Amendment, freedom of speech or freedom of the press. Who would then decide that he was that that was unconstitutional? Well, that was never overturned by the Supreme Court. It lapsed. But let me tell you, this is interesting because I love free speech. I am a huge fan of free speech, as you know, as you are. But we do not love the original conception of free speech. We love 20th century free speech.

19:12We love the free speech at the beginning of our country was very much constricted. And it wasn't quite Stalinist Russia, but it was nothing like we have today. Like what was different? You mentioned in the book about blasphemy, but tell me what's different. Well, that's a huge one. I mean, the blasphemy, state laws against blasphemy were considered constitutional because the idea was you had a right to free speech, but the government also had a right to punish you if your speech was dangerous to the republic. So they had a much less absolute view of rights. And this is also, this is from Judd Campbell, a great professor also at Stanford.

19:56So you could be, I instituted it in my house because I was trying to get back to the original. So I have teenage kids and I'm like, if you curse or blaspheme, I'm going to fine you 37 and a half cents, which is what it cost in 1789 in New York State. and they would curse and I'd say, put in 37 and a half cents into the jar. Then they would curse. They say, oh, I don't have 30. I don't have a half cent. And then they would curse again. And I say, all right, now put in 75. Then they would curse on purpose just to get back to the half cent. So that didn't work out. But the idea is blasphemy was laws against blasphemy by states were considered constitutional.

20:46And John Adams, like you said, sedition, his party, the Federalists, thought it was constitutional. We see it as incredibly unconstitutional now, and I am very glad of that. But back then, the argument was that free speech was not totally free. And my favorite one they threw in jail was a guy who made an ass joke. That's all he did. He made an an arse. It was literally an arse joke. John Adams came and there was a big celebration in Boston and they shot some cannons. And this guy was at a tavern and he said, I wish one of the cannonballs would go through John Adams' arse. And someone overheard him, reported him to the police, and he was thrown in jail.

21:31So the question is, what would you be allowed, like, what right did it protect that would have been on the fence otherwise, the First Amendment? Well, it depends again on who you're talking about. The Federalists like John Adams would want you to be able to write an editorial in the newspaper, but a polite one, nothing attacking, you know, the body shaming John Adams, which was big back then. They called him his rotundity. But yes, a polite editorial and some vigorous discussion in the tavern. That was allowed. Now, there were others who were a little more pro-free speech, like Thomas Jefferson.

22:12He was okay with sort of more demonstrations. He might be okay with people marching in the streets. But I am very glad for, weirdly, the Jehovah's Witnesses. I talk about this in the book. Thank you, Jehovah's Witnesses, because they filed in the 40s and 50s dozens of suits against expanding our free speech. And they all went to the Supreme Court and the court ruled in favor of the Jehovah's Witnesses that they could do things like not say the Pledge of Allegiance. They could do things like say on the street corner that regular Christianity was terrible. And so thank you to Jehovah's Witnesses for our freedom of speech.

23:00So if a kid right now doesn't want to say the Pledge of Allegiance and the school punishes him, like let's say sends him to detention or suspends him or whatever, he can sue the school on his First Amendment rights. I believe that's true. I'm not a First Amendment lawyer. So don't hire me for that. But I'm pretty sure that's true. You don't have to say the First Amendment anymore. I mean, the Pledge of Allegiance anymore. Thank you. If a state has blasphemy laws, but then there's the First Amendment, who protects me first? Am I like, do I follow the state laws or does the First Amendment override that?

23:39Well, now it does. But back then it didn't. So in the beginning of our country, states were much more powerful. And in fact, it was more like at the very beginning, it was more like the European Union. You were more likely to think of yourself as a New Yorker or a Georgian now than you were as an American. And the whole point of the Constitution was trying to bind people together more. But even back until much later, it was much weaker. And the Bill of Rights only applied to the federal government, not to states. So the federal government couldn't throw you in jail for saying that John Adams is fat, but the state governments could.

24:27Ah, so you couldn't say, no, my first amendment. And this is where the Constitution, I mean, this is where the Supreme Court came along and said, no, no, no, Constitution overrides all that. Exactly. That is right. Thanks to the 14th Amendment. But, you know, it's interesting how, well, why the 14th Amendment? Yeah. Well, not to get too much into the weeds, but 14th Amendment came after the Civil War. And it says it's all about equal protection and due process and all of these things. And it has the famous one about the clause that says that if you engage in insurrection, you cannot be an officer.

25:11And that was what the whole Trump trial was about. So the 14th Amendment's got a lot going on. But one of the most famous parts is that it's equal protection. And that was interpreted to mean both the state and the federal government had to respect your rights. At the very beginning of our country, individual rights were not as big. It was more about state rights. Interesting. And this is also related to this constitutional case recently between the Biden administration and Greg Abbott's administration in Texas, the governor of Texas. And the Supreme Court ruled, hey, federal overrides state. Right.

25:52Thank God. I agree. I am in favor of that. But that is a big deal. And in the beginning of our country, it might have been more of a fight. Now, the presidency has changed quite a bit. Like if you look at the constitution, the president has very few powers. Oh yeah. He can't make laws. He can just suggest laws and he can also negotiate peace treaties, but they're not useful until Congress passes the peace treaty and he can go, he can throw state parties and go to funerals, but that's basically it. And he can, he's commander of the army, which is important too. So I shouldn't leave that, but those are like his only rights in the constitution.

26:32It was a much weaker presidency at the beginning. And one of, as you know, in my book, The Year of Living Constitutionally, I tried to express all my rights. So I had the musket. I also wanted to express my right to petition. And because that was a big deal back then. So I got, did you sign it? I had a quill and I had hundreds of people. I did not, unfortunately. Well, and then I brought it to Congress. I brought it to an actual senator and rolled it out in front of him. But the point of the petition was that the president has become way too powerful. As you said, in the constitutional times, George Washington, he did eight executive orders in his eight years.