Keeping the Spark Alive – Long-Term & Aging (a/k/a How to Maintain Great Sex) | Dr. Nicole McNichols Part 3

0:00Today on the James Altiger Show. It's not about our partner. We're just kind of bored with our own life. You know, it's really easy when we lose that feeling of attraction to look at our partner and want to blame them. But sometimes it's that we don't have anything that really is ours that lights us up anymore. Pleasure generally is something that is really essential to our well-being. It's not a treat. It's not something you've got to, quote-unquote, get lucky to have. It's not something superfluous. It's actually a really vital part of your well-being. and, yeah, approaching it with a sense of playfulness and humor.

0:35And, you know, amazing sex is going to have awkward moments. That's okay.

0:45This isn't your average business podcast, and he's not your average host. This is The James Altucher Show.

1:02No one craves bad sex, right? No one craves even the same sex every single time. One thing I will say, though, that's interesting is women actually have been found to lose desire more quickly over the course of a long-term relationship than men do, and novelty is more important for them over time. And so we assume that it's men who get bored quickly and they're going to go need the new partner or the new thing. Actually, women are more likely to report those feelings of boredom.

1:45so this of course leads to the the big question for many couples which is okay two five seven years in seven year itch like how do you keep that excitement going and you talk about this a lot in the book but like what's kind of the these are the myths or the main points that you'd you'd want to make you know first of all knowing that it is possible but that it's not going to just stay hot on its own, that it is something that takes intention and planning and a commitment to and a willingness to say, I know this is awkward. I know this is crazy, but this is important and I love you and I want to make our sex life as pleasurable as possible for both of us.

2:23So even though this is weird and crazy to talk about, let's do it anyway, right? And setting apart a time again for that intimacy date when you can't. But when we look at couples in long-term relationships, you know, what are they doing? We talked about setting the mood, right, which is really around that intimacy date. The communication piece, we talked about oral sex. In other words, switching it up, finding types of pleasure that are touch that works for everybody involved, not just one person. But I think that the other thing we forget is that at a deeper level, in a longer term relationship, sometimes what we're losing, you know, we feel like we're in that seven-year itch, it's not about our partner.

3:04We're just kind of bored with our own life. You know, it's really easy when we lose that feeling of attraction to look at our partner and want to blame them. But sometimes it's that we don't have anything that really is ours that lights us up anymore. You know, and this can be because, you know, maybe you've had kids and you've got young children and, you know, you feel like your entire life with your partner is about this teamwork to be the perfect parents. And I think a lot of times couples just forget that it's just so important to be setting time apart for just the two of you, right? But also just to be able to have time when you're focusing on the things that light you up at an individual level, right?

3:42Really interesting research showing that when people pursue things that bring them a sense of passion in their own lives, which can be a new career, it can be a new group that you join, it can be a class that you're taking, it can even be, you know, a new group of friendships that you foster. But if you're doing things that are bringing you a sense of newness and other elements of your life, and then you're able to reconnect with your partner, and that part is critical, to share those new aspects and interests with them, that is going to lead to increased passion within your relationship, right?

4:21In other words, yes, it is important to be doing the work with our partner, but we also have to be doing the work with ourselves. But let me ask you this on a personal level. Like you've been married for 22 years. How long have you been a professor? I think since 2015, you were the sexual professor. Yeah. So how do you find new things, given that you've had such consistency on career and job and so on? You know, when our kids were young, it was really hard. You know, and I address what it's like for new parents in my book, just the exhaustion, you know, learning to plan that intimate time for just the two of us.

4:55But now that my kids are grown, I will go on record and say, I am having the best sex of my life with my partner because we do understand the importance of setting that time apart. And I do feel like finding something that I am so passionate about. And it's not just that it's the content, right? But I mean, yes, my husband is a great research subject. But I mean, it's more than that. It's the joy and the excitement that I have in my own career that I'm able to then come back and share with him. But it doesn't have to be a career. It can really be anything that lights you up, right? I have a friend and her husband is getting a degree in landscape architecture and is really excited about that.

5:40And she's like, I kind of see him in a whole new light, right? It's like this whole new side of him that's all lit up and exciting. And when we see our partners in that state where they're lit up and they're excited and they're coming back to share these things with us, that's one of the times when we feel most attracted to our partners, right? That really feeds a lot of fire. And I think we've kind of both found that as we've learned, it's not selfish to be focusing on the things that bring you passion and joy. It's actually essential, not just for your own well-being, but for your relationship, for your ability to show up as parents, that, you know, you kind of afford yourself the permission to do it.

6:20And so it's interesting because this obviously is not referring to the sex act itself at all. This is like, oh, you become sort of re-engaged to your partner in this romantic way. You see him or her in this new light. But now in terms of like the sex itself, you've mentioned novelty, like, and how women often are quicker to want novelty in the relationship. What does that novelty include? Could that push the relationship away because suddenly the interests change and you're not like sort of on the same sexual path? Well, the thing with novelty is that a lot of times it's not necessarily the sexual act that might push somebody away, it's more what the partner is assuming the act implies, right?

7:08So in other words, it's like, okay, you want to try a little bit of bondage. Does that mean that you are not happy with the sex that we're already having? Does that mean like, oh my gosh, me having to tie you up, that makes me feel uncomfortable because I don't want to ever feel like I'm restraining you. But if you're able to kind of look at that and have a conversation, right? First of all, understand that when we have sex with our partner, we're traveling to an erotic space that we enjoy with just them. And aspects of our personality can come out that we don't get to show anybody else, right?

7:45So maybe it's that in the rest of your life, you have 8 million responsibilities and you feel like you almost have this really masculine energy. And then when you're in the bedroom with your partner, you want to be able to surrender, right? You want to feel like somebody. And that doesn't mean you can still be a feminist and have that feeling, right? And you can still, you know, as the person's partner, right, understand that this isn't about her wanting you to dominate her in real life. It's about her getting an emotional need met that she feels safe enough to express to you, right? Or, you know, expressing any kind of sexual fantasy or role play.

8:28It's not about, oh my God, you don't think the sex we're having is good, right? It's, again, leading with the positive, saying, I love this aspect of our sex life, but let's build on it. I've always had this fantasy. Could we also try this? And, you know, again, reassuring the partner, this isn't about the sex not already being good. It's about wanting to build on it and try new things. But I was just going to say, but I mean, at the same time, don't let go of the tried and true, right? I mean, if you are having sex that feels satisfying and feels good, don't pressure yourself to be adding all sorts of different types of novelty if neither you or your partner feel like it's something that you need to be even more satisfied, right?

9:12I mean, the degree of novelty, yes, when we look at averages, it's about once a month, but those are averages, right? And so some people want, again, it goes back to almost thinking of this more as a sexual orientation. Some people might want a lot more novelty. Some people might need less, and that's okay. But you bring up a really great point is that, you mentioned this in the book, men often feel threatened. Let's say a woman wants to try toys. And you make a great point. No woman has ever left their man for a second. Exactly. So just remember that. But how often and how much more pleasurable in some cases, like, you know, you mentioned the sexual wellness industry is$125 billion industry and a lot of that sex toys and so on.

9:59So like, what is the role of the toys? What are the percentages on the different kinks or novelties and so on? If there is anything. Yeah, no. I mean, sex toys are a fantastic tool and that is what they are. they are just a tool. They are a collaborator. They are not something that is ever there to replace you. And if you think about the fact that the number one thing that's going to predict how much you want sex, how much attraction you feel towards each other is how pleasurable that sex is, anything you can do to make the sex more pleasurable is going to only benefit you, right? And so this means, yes, if she has a favorite toy, bringing it into the bedroom, because the reality is that these toys are just perfectly, beautifully designed to give a type of stimulation at a frequency that is just not possible by any human being.

11:01And that's okay. It doesn't mean that you're being excluded from the sexual experience, right? If she's teaching you how to use it on her, right? Where she likes to be touched with it, right? And maybe, by the way, it might feel good on you too, right? Vibrators around the scrotum, around that area in between the scrotum and the anus can actually feel really good on men. That, you know, it might be something that you both enjoy. But that is a really good form of novelty where, yeah, people really should not view a sex toy as any kind of a threat. it really is only going to make the experience more pleasurable and make you more connected, not less.

11:41And I think it also probably falls into your three categories of pleasure, which is the wanting, liking, learning. Exactly. Obviously, when you go to the store and you're kind of doing the wanting, and then the whole cycle happens and you repeat. Yep, exactly. And that's exactly right. When you're learning, you're in that phase and you're like, wow, that was amazing. That felt really, really good. Guess what? That's going to feed into your wanting. That's going to make you want to go through the whole pleasure cycle and have sex again. So it really feeds into it. And it's an upward cycle because look, the more sex you're having, we know that it leads to all sorts of physical benefits, all sorts of mental well-being benefits.

12:24Is that really true? Yes. Yes. I know that statistics say that, but let's say someone's stressed and they have a lot of sex. Will they be less stressed? Yes, absolutely. If they're able to have sex in the first place, right? Some people, when they have an overwhelming amount of stress, are going to start to feel a loss of desire. If you're able in that moment to say, I'm going to make an effort to calm my nervous system tonight and connect with my partner, yeah, it's a form of self-care, right? And it's a form of healing that can really serve to make you less stressed. But yeah, it does. It helps with stress.

13:03It also helps with sleep, right? Which is, I mean, there's sort of this interesting circular thing going on with sex and sleep because sex helps you sleep better, but also being better rested helps you be more in the mood and enjoy sex more. It also leads to increased immunity. There's new data showing that it provides protective mechanisms against the degenerative brain diseases, cardiovascular health, it improves. Some studies showing it even in men, that men who have more orgasms live longer. So it does. And yet, we dismiss that and we're less aware of those benefits than we are of even like the benefits of CBD, right?

13:45It's just crazy how we don't even think about how sex actually does have these health benefits. And in fact, we dismiss just the benefit of pleasure overall, right? Pleasure and positive emotions are a really good tool for filling your bucket. And, you know, research shows that people who experience more positive emotions day to day have more ego resilience. They're able to come up with more creative solutions to their problems. They're more likely to broaden their perspective and look outward for sources of social support. And through all of that, they lead more satisfying lives. So, you know, I think we just need to kind of re-categorize pleasure generally as something that is really essential to our well-being.

14:31It's not a treat. It's not something you've got to quote-unquote get lucky to have. It's not something superfluous. It's actually a really vital part of your well-being. Take a quick break. If you like this episode, I'd really, really appreciate it. It means so much to me. Please share it with your friends and subscribe to the podcast, email me at alcatra at gmail.com and tell me why you subscribed. Thanks.

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17:34And this is a question I've always wondered, is sex almost by definition the most enjoyable thing a person can do? Well, we do have data on this. And it's so Daniel Gilbert, he is a Harvard researcher and he hooked people up with pagers and he would ping them randomly throughout the day over time. And he would ask them, what are you doing? How happy are you? And then another question, which was, were you focused on the activity that you were doing or were you thinking about something else while you were doing it? And he found a couple of really interesting things. First of all, the activity that people reported the highest level of happiness with was sex.

18:18They did it proportionately a much smaller amount of time was dedicated to it than virtually almost every other activity, which is a little bit sad when you think about it. But it was also an activity where people reported the most amount of time being focused on what they were doing. And so what that means is that, and they labeled this paper, a wandering mind is an unhappy mind, which is really true. Right? So in other words, one of the reasons sex makes us so happy is that when we're really focused on the sensations in our body, we're present. and when we're present and thinking about what's happening in the now and not thinking about all the things happening in the future, our to-do list, what we need to get to, what, you know, all our different anxieties, when we're just closing off that part of our brain, which is the part of the brain that quiets during orgasm and pleasure, and we're just focused on the sensations and we're just embodied and we have a sense of mindfulness during it, we're about as happy as we can be.

19:21Now, you know, what you'll notice here naturally is that, yeah, well, there are plenty of times when we can have sex when we're not present, when we are thinking about the dry cleaning or when we're not into it. And yeah, that's not going to be very good sex, right? That's not going to be a moment of connection that leads you feeling better off afterwards. It is normal, you know, to have what Masters and Johnson framed as are labeled non-erotic thoughts, yeah, there might be sort of that occasional distraction that runs through your head. That's okay, right? Just bring your attention back to your body, back to your breath.

19:56Again, it's about saying, I understand the temptation for my mind to wander, but I'm going to do my best to now bring my attention back to exactly what I'm feeling because that's when we quiet the parts of the brain that need to quiet in order to have an orgasm and we light up the parts of the brain that are necessary for pleasure. What's fascinating with your explanation there is you described exactly what meditation is, except in this case there's orgasms. It's like meditation with orgasms. It's exactly the same. Yeah, exactly. Meditation, of course, is known to reduce stress, but I can imagine with the addition of all this physical pleasure, it must even be better.

20:35It's amplified. Exactly. Bingo. Yep. So one time, you remember that, I shouldn't say remember, because she's not that old, but we're not that far back in history. But you remember Suzanne Somers? Yep. She was in the TV show, Three's Company, and the Thighmaster and so on. Yes. She was once on my podcast. Oh, wow. It's like in 2019, before she passed away. And she was in her 80s. And she said, her and her husband, her husband was standing right there. She said her and her husband were having sex like two or three times a day. And the husband's like, he's like this really old guy. He was like in his 90s.

21:09And so, So I think they made a joke about he was popping Viagra all the time or whatever. But how do people in their 80s have sex? Because it does seem like it's a little bit more vigorous than someone in their 80s is going to always be doing. Well, a couple of things. When you're in your 80s, there's a number of things going on, right? I mean, older age can really, you see sort of a bifurcation, right? Because I mean, some people might feel a bit of grief, right? Especially if you've lost a partner, especially if you, you know, there can be, we're in the midst of a loneliness epidemic, especially among men.

21:47And so if you're feeling, you know, if you've stepped away from a career maybe where you felt connected to people or where you felt like you were getting a lot of positive feedback, right? So that can definitely make it harder to have an active sex life. But on the flip side, you're probably not as stressed out by your job. You don't have young kids running around the house. you are probably retired and have more leisure time. And as people get older, they tend to give fewer fucks, which means you're just more open to having different types of sex, experimenting, and not feeling like you're going to just self-flagellate yourself.

22:25So from a psychological mental standpoint, that makes a lot of sense. Physiologically, cardiovascular health is incredibly important. A lot of men, and I see this with my students too, but also in the data who are struggling with impotence or with erectile dysfunction or with even premature ejaculation, a lot of times that has to do with strengthening the pelvic floor muscles as well as lack of cardiovascular health. In other words, if you're not taking care of the rest of you, if you're not eating well, getting sleep and exercising, that absolutely is going to play into your sexual performance.

23:09And so for older men, if they're really paying attention to those things, there's no reason that they can't continue to have great sex. And then finally, yeah, Viagra and Cialis are miracle drugs. I mean, they do definitely work. I believe that they're, I'm not a medical doctor, but I, you know, from what I've heard, they're extremely safe. I think there's some people where they can cause migraines, but that's like a smaller subset of people. And yeah, they can be enormously helpful for people who are an older age and who need extra help with blood supply down there. So yeah. You mentioned erectile dysfunction, but on the female side, let's say a woman's passed menopause or perimenopause.

23:52And I think not enough doctors, and you've mentioned this in your book, but not enough doctors talk about the thinning of the vaginal wall, which can make sex for women quite painful and not understand why unless the issue is addressed, but doctors don't even tell them about it. Yeah, I know it's really heartbreaking. I'm not a medical doctor, but I will speak from what I do know of the literature and anecdotally that HRT can be fantastic for a lot of women who are struggling with perimenopause and menopause. And the black bottle warning was just released. So it's not, you know, it's continued to, in other words, it's really considered to be safe.

24:28There was a 2002 study that came out that pointed to all these risks. And when the data was further analyzed, it was really found to be that those conclusions were just complete bogus. And that, you know, millions of women at the time were taken off of HRT because there was this belief that it would lead to, you know, carcinogenic outcomes. And we've just found that's not true. Or that if it is true, it's really among only women who are in extremely high-risk groups, right? Or for very, very, very older women. For the majority, it can be incredibly helpful. And so yes, with declining levels of estrogen and progesterone, that will cause thinning of the vaginal walls.

25:06It will cause decreases in lubrication. And the other thing that can be really helpful for women, there's so much data emerging on even testosterone supplementation, which can help with brain fog and focus and also lower levels of sexual desire. We don't realize it, but women also have testosterone. It's not at the same level that's equal to men, but it's still present and still important. And when you can supplement with that, that can also make a huge difference. So yeah, I think HRT is something that all women should check out, but I really recommend going to a doctor that specializes in menopause and perimenopause because a lot, you know, the vast majority of most doctors who are out there right now went through medical training at a time when it was viewed as dangerous, are not aware of the most recent research findings.

25:55And you really want someone who can, with a lot of care, prescribe an exact dosage for you that does work. But in addition, there are different types of estrogen creams that can be helpful, testosterone creams. But I'm a huge proponent of all of it. I really encourage women to explore that if that is something that they feel like they're struggling with those symptoms. And so we've covered so many subjects, but I want to go all the way back to the beginning. It seems like the most important thing, and particularly, let's say, in the beginnings of a sexual relationship, is communication. And it seems like that's by far...