Nancy Cartwright: Bart Simpson, Fellini, and Finding the Artist Inside [From the Archive]

25:19You know, somebody had come into WING Radio where Jonathan Winters had worked there years ago. And here I am just kind of filling in for people that go on vacation. I learned everything from reception to accounting to the traffic department where you get to schedule the commercials in. And when I'm listening to these commercials and I'm doing this, I got to see the name of the advertising agency. There are all these actors' names in there like Joni Gerber and who else's name? Frank Welker. And I saw these guys' names and I recognized them from cartoons. And here I am. I've been competing in speech and getting big trophies like first place and humorous interpretation.

25:58and I'm going, wow, and I would get comments from the judges, you have a unique voice, you should do cartoons for a living. Well, this is Kettering, Ohio. I mean, it's not exactly the animation capital of the world, right? So I'm like, how do I do that? So some woman came in promoting music and she was from Warner Brothers and that to me meant Mel Blanc. And my boss, he was wonderful. My boss, Jim Bennett, he knew that. So he introduced me to this woman from Warner Brothers and she was like, yeah, you put a little something together for me and I can pass it along. I didn't know what a demo tape was and it should be about two minutes long and I put a tape together on my own, 13, 14 minutes long, sent it to her and she was awesome.

26:42She wrote me back and she sent me Dawes Butler's name. He was one of many names and phone numbers, addresses or whatever. So I called him and that started our relationship. He called me back and boom, I was off. And when you were in L.A., then you spent hours, you were putting in your 10 ,000 hours studying under him when you already had so much talent and skill as a voiceover artist. What were some of the things you learned that took you that final stretch to be? Professional? Yeah, well, you were already professional, but maybe you didn't view yourself that way. I don't know. No, I had never been paid.

27:15I had never been paid to do it before. I wasn't making a living doing that. I mean, it was working at this radio station, and I did a little thing in the afternoon as a promo for the station. Just was a little bit in the afternoon that I lived for that five minutes with the weather guy and the traffic guy, you know, and doing a little character, which was similar to Bart. You know, it was a girl, lily pad. But it took Dawes, I worked with Dawes, and it took a couple years before he felt like I was ready to really put another tape together. Wow, a couple of years. Yeah. Like if you had been told that at the beginning of those years, would you have said, I'm not waiting a couple of years?

27:53No, because this was a guy that was like such a pioneer. Huckleberry Hound, Yogi Bear, Quick Drama Girl, Elroy Jetson, Baba Louie, Coswell Cog, Peter Potamus. I didn't know Elroy Jetson. Oh my gosh, the Raisin Bran son. Just like Cap 'n Crunch. Amazing Dixie. Baba Louie, he just did Peter Potamus. I mean, he did so many of these characters that I grew up on and maybe you too. but it's like wow this guy and I would go to his house on Sundays catch the 86 bus from Westwood and go into Beverly Hills walk a couple blocks for an hour lesson I was there four hours and he and his wife who's now a hundred years old Mertis is 100 years old now still around bless her heart she's like amazing and they would take me out to dinner and drive me back to UCLA to my dorm.

28:43And I just, no, I didn't, I didn't know. I didn't know this industry. I was living kind of like under a dome at UCLA and completely protected on a play field and started doing theater. And that kind of segued me into doing more stage where I ended up doing a play. I was 22 playing a 12 year old doing a very controversial play that got me a lot of attention. and from that I got an agent and that's how I started balancing like on camera fairly quickly I think I doing on camera stuff and doing Richie Rich was the first thing that was in the spring of 81 that's when I got an agent and did a pilot and Twilight and all that stuff started rolling out I'm thinking oh my gosh what am I doing what am I doing I thought I was just going to be voiceovers and now I'm juggling at that age going, now I'm doing two careers because it really was two careers.

29:43But the on-camera stuff wasn't part of the plan. I didn't plan on doing that. It kind of happened. But there was a book I read. Linda Obst wrote this book called Hello, He Lied. And it was about writing and producing. And it was an awesome book. It was written a number of years ago, but she says - Oh, the title. It was a great title, but ride the horse in the direction that it's going. and I thought that was amazing. So, okay.

30:11I'm going in this direction, you know? That's incredible. You could do those sounds like all day and I was just like, listen. But, you know, don't, anything, it's a carpe diem kind of viewpoint. You got to seize the moment when it's happening to you. But it's also like, it's a certain kind of commitment to the moment, you know, just like what you did with the Cheers audition walking off. You have to really commit to it. And if it feels fake or scripted, it doesn't work. You have to commit to even the voices. You have to really say, I'm going to do this and not waver, not have my voice waver at all.

30:49Yeah, I think when you make a decision, when you make a strong decision like that, you back it 100%. You don't waver. You know, we all have like these, you know, it's so easy to fall into little voices that, you know, negativity that can come into your world, your universe. Like for an artist, it would be you're too young, you're too old, you're too fat, you're not tall enough. No one's going to like this. Yeah, it's like, or, you know, God, she's so much better than me. And even sitting in the audition room waiting to go in, you're sitting in there with all these other artists and these are the people that are competing for the same part.

31:25It's a very strange method. It's the one that Hollywood chooses to do, that audition process. It's so difficult. So the way to win, if you will, the way to be causative as an artist is to not think of it as a competition, but make your decision for what you're going to do at that audition and fulfill the decisions that you've made. And then you cannot lose. So what do you mean? So for instance, in the movie you described where you took off the glasses and hat, you made a decision earlier, but you didn't quite commit to it going into the audition. Yeah, because I didn't think that I was – that wasn't part of my audition.

32:08The audition was actually the character and the reading of the part. It was the decision that I made in terms of the emotional investment and how am I going to play this scene. So I kind of broke the scene down and where is she going and how do I need to start and, you know, is there an arc in the scene? things like technical things that an actor would do. But I never considered that. I brought the hat along maybe to show them the hat. But I didn't make the decision. It's like wearing the hat, okay, I'm not going to walk in, maybe I'll bring it. And at the last second, I'm going, no, I'm just going to go in and do that.

32:43But still, it was enough of a commitment that they saw you in the waiting room. I guess so. I guess so. So how do people practice this idea of surprise, or how do people learn to do that to surprise yourself so you could surprise everyone that's a great question like clearly you kept practicing that you you consciously thought this is a pathway to success in addition to all the skills you were developing at the same time you know it seems like there was there was mentorship was a key part of your success there was innate talent and then there's this element of both surprise and and commitment and immersion you know i think that i don't know that you can really actually define more than what you just said about it.

33:23It's just like, I believe as an artist, you have to do the work and then throw it away. And then you have to just go in and be there in present time and just trust, trust that what I have done is that's going to serve me, serve me best. I mean, even when I went in for the Simpsons, I went in for Lisa and the audition pieces of Bart and Lisa were sitting right next to each other. And here's my part. Okay, here's the monologue. I wasn't sent it ahead of time. I'm looking at it and reading it. It's cute. It's fine. There's a picture of her. Wow, that's an interesting looking animated character that I'd never seen before.

34:02Most animated up to that point in time was the Jetsons, the Flintstones. They were very real looking, even though cavemen, the Flintstones, but they looked like people, You know, you see the Simpsons and they got weird hair and they kind of did, but pudgy and yellow. And it's like odd. But Bart was right next to it. And I picked her said eight-year-old middle child is a 10-year-old school-hating underachiever and proud of it. I'm like, oh, bam, bam, that's it. That was my trusting my instincts because I believe that's true, really true for all of us. And if you can just believe that, that you are correct, your instincts are correct.

34:38But again, this is at a point already after your search for Fellini, which I want to make the connection actually between In Search of Fellini the movie and The Simpsons. But maybe you only build those instincts and that faith in those instincts after much experience. I don't know. I think that's planet Earth. And that's like, you know, gee whiz, I think that, you know, we all have baggage with us. And we're trying to like, we're all trying to survive. You know, it has to do with survival. And as an artist, there's a, for me anyway, and I think actually for all artists, there's a little bit more to it because there's a responsibility level that goes with being an artist.

35:20Because the world, in terms of culture, the culture looks, people, individuals, look towards the artists because it's through art. It's an aesthetic wavelength. I don't know how else to describe it, but there's an aesthetic band that when you go to the movies, or when you see something phenomenal on stage, you see dancers or you hear a piece of music that makes you cry and you don't know why. It's because that wavelength, it just laser sharp goes into your very beingness, the soul of who you are. And it just, it can change you. It can lift you up. It can like pull you out of the, this is my viewpoint, I swear, it like pulls you out of this physical universe into an area where it's just beautiful.

36:10And that's what makes you cry. Take a quick break. If you like this episode, I'd really, really appreciate it. It means so much to me. Please share it with your friends and subscribe to the podcast. Email me at alcatra at gmail.com and tell me why you subscribed. Thanks.

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38:34Terms and points cap apply. The most effective people at work aren't working harder than everyone else. They're working smarter inside better systems. Superhuman Go from the makers of Grammarly is the AI chat that works inside every tool you already use. Always ready and already aware of what you're working on. It's a teammate whose only job is to help you be better at yours. With Go working with you, you can show off what you do best. See what Superhuman Go can do at superhuman.com. That's superhuman.com. so when you were studying la strada obviously like like it's interesting what you say about wavelength because obviously there's always everybody kind of the universal consensus is that fellini is one of the most brilliant filmmakers of all time yeah but a lot of people will just sit there and watch his movie in today's fast-paced world and say i don't get it because he had this absurdist a surreal kind of viewpoint as well and but some people will look at it and say oh my gosh, I connect so much to what he's saying.

39:38Obviously, that happened to you with La Strada. Yeah. And in the middle of all these cartoons. Yeah, you were already again. And doing cartoons, right? So you're right. And that's exactly what it was. There was something about that film that just went right into me. And I said, I need to do something with this. And I don't know what. So I started to put up every scene and cast different Zompano's, different fools. Richard Basart plays the fool. and played every part. Milton says, what are you doing? You're doing another scene. What do you want to do, Nancy? I said, I don't know. I think, I don't know.

40:14And then I'm still looking at it. And then one day I realized, I said, you know what I want to do? I want to get the rights to do La Strada as a stage production. So that was my impetus for going to Italy. And I didn't, they served me quite, this is the one thing that I got out of ICM that because I was a cartoonist, I wasn't really, Holly Hunter was represented by ICM, and she was well on her way. We were kind of about the same age. So it's like, wow, she's getting a lot of attention. They know that I do dripping faucets, and I can do motorboats and cement mixers. I can do all these sound effects, but how do I fit into their world?

40:53And I was making my own way because I loved my agent. I really loved my agent. And anyway, but the head of the agency, Jeff Berg, he had, they represented Fellini. So I got Fellini's address. So I started writing letters to Fellini and I got no response. One letter after another, you know, all these letters that I wrote in one day, bam, I couldn't believe it. I got a letter back. Now they were not encouraging. They said, don't come. He's going to be here, but don't come. He's editing. He's going to be working. Cause I said, I'm going to be there around Christmas time. And I was like, no, no, no.

41:25But James, are you kidding me? He's going to be there. I'm like, I'm out of here. I am definitely going. So that's that thing. That's that passion. That's that art. I don't know how to describe it more than that, but it's like, trust your instincts. I said, I'm out of here. I'm going. And trust your instincts about this one. It's not like you were. That I can meet this great director who did this film that like really, it affected me in a way spiritually, if you will. It just moved me. I go, how did he do that? Maybe if he meets me, he'll give me the rights to La Strada, and I can do it on stage, and I can share this passion with other people.

41:59So that was the idea behind it. So I go off, but I was going to go with a friend, and she got a callback. It's so typical. She got a callback, and it was great. So I ended up going by myself. I wasn't going to let that stop me. So I take off, but ahead of time, I'm looking. I'm going, okay, he's going to be there at Christmas, but I got to take in the culture of Italy. I want to see. I want to eat, drink. I want to fall in love. I want to see what Italy is like. So again, this immersion, it's not like you're just making an appointment with Tony and then coming back. It's this commitment to doing something a little surprising because he doesn't know you're showing up.

42:38Probably your agents think you're crazy. Probably Milton Kinsella thought you were crazy for all I know. I don't know. But my friends were a little bit like, God, oh, my God. Because I could do that. A lot of people were married. I didn't have, I was single. I didn't have any obligations, so I could do it. And I was making a living with voiceovers. Also, a lot of people in my class were working, but not, you know, they had other jobs. They were waiting tables. They were driving taxis, whatever they were doing. But I was making a living doing it. But it was working out fine. And Christmas, about Thanksgiving, the industry pretty much shuts down till the middle of January.

43:19It really is. There's not a lot happening. So I just said, well, whatever. I mean, this is part of my life. I'm going to experience some life here. What better training ground than going out and investing my time in meeting people and kind of finding out who other people are? And holy mackerel, here I am with like kind of like in my mid-20s, single, I don't speak the language. That was challenging. My luggage went to Frankfurt, Germany. True story. And you'll find that out in the movie. but so many of the events. So you said, was it this guy, that line? Okay, it goes back to the - You have to travel far, far away.

43:57Sometimes you have to travel far, far away in order to find out what is closest to you. So here I am, no luggage, and I'm stuck in Milan. And I was only going to be in Milan for like a day and then take a train and go to Verona because I had mapped it out. I want to go to Milan, Verona, Venice, Florence, Pisa, Rome. and I'll make it to Rome within like, you know, almost two weeks, like 12 days or something like that. So here I am and I'm stuck and waiting for the airport to call me and I don't know where my luggage is. So I'm kind of waiting around and I go to this park and there's a, there's this guy on the park bench, like maybe he was, he was dressed in a, like a Sergeant Pepper uniform, sounded like Mickey Mouse, only had four teeth and he's sitting at one end and I'm at the other and he's feeding the birds.

44:44And, you know, when you travel to Europe, it's like they almost give you a passport when you go to a foreign country to not be yourself. You start doing things. And man, I took full advantage as an artist to do that. And I started chatting with this guy. James, you won't believe what I pulled in. I can't believe who he was. His name was Cosmo. And he had been an actor. He said, you won't recognize me because I got these clothes on. But I was, oh, he asked what I was doing, and I said, I'm going to find Fellini. Oh, Fellini. Oh, Fellini. This is Fellini. I work with Fellini. You won't recognize me because I have my clothes on.

45:24I was in Satyricon. I was in Satyricon. I was an actor. I did this film, Shazhenushanesh Tchula. It's such a long title that by the time you get to the end, you forget what you said at the beginning. I had worked at the actor's studio. but William Holden took all of my parts. I could not get any work. I had to come home again. This is the guy that I'm talking to. So I had somebody. She just randomly found a guy. Randomly ran into this guy. And he had been at SatyraCon. That's ridiculous. That is. That's like crazy. And I didn't know so there is a scene kind of like that in the movie. Yeah. And I didn't know that was autobiographical.

46:04And you actually played. That's right. The wife of that character who had also been in. But he said that line to me, and I wrote it down. It came from this homeless, toothless, Mickey Mouse-like guy that spoke five, seven languages, something like that. And he sat there and showed me, and this was an artist that had been broken down bit by bit, couldn't get work anywhere. and now he's in his 70s and he, I was just like so touched by that. And I mean, that's going to stick in my personal portfolio in my mind, if you will, but got this photo of him and me. And then I, you know, shook his hand. I ate some of the bread myself and moved on and then ended up going and went to Verona and there was an incident there that's in the film.

46:55I don't want to give it all the way falling in love happened in Venice a scene in that scene in Venice where I took Cosmo from Milan turned her into a woman I you know we I had this I wanted to I wanted to be in the film but originally I was going to be Claire I wanted to be Claire and I thought oh my god Maria Vallow was great oh my god oh my god but here's what happened is I realized well in This is in pre-production, and nobody is going to tell me no. They're just riding along with me until I finally wake up one day and I said, you know what? I had a thought last night. This is talking to Teron and to Peter, and I said, I'm not playing Claire.

47:43What's going on? I said, no, this is not going to help. This won't help the movie. This will destroy the movie. I can't do it because people are going to be stuck. Like how we started this interview, people know it's Nancy Cartwright and the positioning of 29 years of doing The Simpsons they're going to just watch me and their attention will be on she doesn't sound like Bart or she sounds a little bit like Bart because I don't think I sound like this I don't think I sound like this all the time you know this is I'm 10 Bart Simpson who the hell are you and you know I'm a grandmother okay I'm a grandmother and I play the voice of Bart Simpson but it'll still be distracting You know what I mean?

48:24So that was it. That was the end of that. Maria Bello, bam, only other consideration. She was the, that was the choice. It's like this actress has the responsibility, certainly has the chops to do it. And her last name is Bello. I mean, come on. She's perfect for the part. Yeah, no, she was great. And so was Mary Lynn Rice Cub. Lovely. Yeah, she's so fun. I think in general, she's a very comedic actor and funny. Mary Lynn? I've loved her since the Larry Sanders show. She was so, I like her dry sense of humor, you mean? Yeah. She's so amazing. Yes, she brought the levity to this film, this otherwise.

49:00It's a very serious role, too. Yeah. It's not necessarily a comic role. No. Although she brings her comic element to it. No, but very dry. You know what she used to do? When we shot, we were two weeks in Cleveland, before we went to Italy. We were in Cleveland together. I didn't know that she was doing this. She didn't tell anybody. We kept a really standard schedule, and they could actually go home at night at a decent hour and be prepared for the next day. Mary Lynn would go out and go to the comedy store in Cleveland and do stand-up. That's how devoted, how committed she is to her art. She's amazing and such a delight to be with, just charming.

49:36I want to get back to you. You were in Italy. You have Lucy, the main character, also has incidents in Verona and Venice. And what happened to you when you were on this quest? I just hope that people are listening to your podcast here after they've seen the film because these will be, well, it's kind of inside. We're not getting into the details because I think the great thing about the movie is the education of an artist, how you find your authentic self and connecting to that wavelength. And you're not saying the specifics of what happens in these cities. In the film. Yeah. Well, I will tell you, it's like there were so many things that happened in real life that we just, Peter and I, I kept a diary.

50:14I would never let anybody read my diary, though. Just know that. So, James, don't even ask. Nobody's reading the diary. I can't. I think you're sort of, did you just sort of kind of passive-aggressively say everybody should read the diary? No, no, I'm not. Are you going to have to publish the diary now? No, no, no, no, it's not going to be published. In fact, I got to maybe probably get Burnett somehow. But I went through it. I think you're feeling an urge to publish this diary. No, no, no, no, I'm not going to do it. No, but I will tell you this. It's like we decided to go to Italy and retrace my steps for locations, kind of location scouting.

50:45But we didn't have a budget yet, and I really wasn't authorized by my business manager to go off and do that. and I said okay let's just say I'm going on vacation and I'm taking two bodyguards with me and I'm paying for their trip that's that I'm not doing anything I'm not doing research for the film I'm just going on vacation I'm going to Italy bye so that's what we did and we went back and went to all these locations and because I had I kept a relationships with well one particular guy that you'll find out in the movie so that's all I'm going to say a little little thing there but when And I went to go through, I was looking through all my photographs and notes and letters to Fellini that I kept.

51:22I kept it all in like a scrapbook. And I'm going through and I came across a business card. And the business card was to a guy named Bippy Patitucci. And he was the proprietor of this little shop that you'll see in the film. It's the scene that I'm in. And it's his name. And I thought, I remember I was like in my 20s. And I remember he was probably in his 50s, so now he's probably in his 80s, if my estimation of his age was correct. So he's probably still alive. I wonder if he's still there. So I go on the Internet and pull it up, and I couldn't believe it. His store, it said it was still there.

52:00So I called the number, and it went da-da-da. The number you dialed is no longer. So okay, okay, so it's fine. I'll have to wait until I go on the trip in a couple of days to find out if he's there. but I flipped over the card and on the back was a name, Kevin Coates. I went and a phone number and I went, holy shit, this is the artist. And when you see the film, the symbolism that you know how with the fool, he gives her the stone and he talks about everyone has a purpose. So when this happened, after an incident for me really happened in Venice, I duck away. I was pretty much accosted by an Italian guy.

52:44And I got away from him, did some real damage to his body. Boom, right knee. Running like a bat out of hell, thinking I'm in, I don't know, a Fellini movie, but certainly a Hitchcock movie, something. And I duck away into this little antiquarian. And I'm sweating, and it's winter, it's cold. I'm so upset, and I don't want anybody to know it. I'm so afraid, and I'm just hiding, I'm just hiding. and I duck in there and I'm just looking around and I find this little piece of, it's a sculpture and it was a little naked bronze woman coming out of a piece of lapis stone. Beautiful. And I'm looking at this.

53:19And again, here's that aesthetic wave band. And I'm looking at this piece. I almost got raped, man. And I'm looking at, man, that's so Barton. That's weird. Okay. Barton after 29 years. I know, I'm still saying it. I almost got raped, man. Just to be clear, your memoir written in 2000, Autobiography of a 10-Year-Old Boy. So you do recognize the overlap between your life and Bart's. Yeah. Okay, so. Can't get away from it. So I'm looking at this piece, and it totally pulled me out of this. It really helped me tremendously. And I meet this proprietor, Bippy, and he chats with me. And, you know, I really love it.

53:59And he says, do you want to talk to the artist, the sculptor? And I said, yeah. So he gets him on the phone and he was in London. So I talked to this guy for maybe a minute and I tell him, you know, I think it's beautiful and I hope we can work out an arrangement that I can buy this. I really want to buy. Thank you so much, Miss Cartwright. It's such a pleasure meeting you and maybe perhaps someday we'll meet. And I said, Kevin, you're, it's so beautiful. Thank you so much. It was really simple conversation. Nothing more than that. Hang up the phone. We work out a deal. You know, I didn't really think I gave him almost every penny that I had to buy it.

54:29I don't have enough. This is moments after going through a frightening, life-threatening experience. Yeah, within 10 minutes, like 10 minutes later. And I just, why be, he gets me water. I didn't share with him what had happened. I just, you know, I couldn't share that. And so I buy this piece. So now, flash forward to like 2015, and we're about ready to take off. And I've got this business card with his name on there. and I'm thinking, what happened to Kevin Coates? Where is he today? So I go on the internet. God, love the internet. I mean, it's got so many great things. What would we do without it?

55:09Oh my God. So I go on there and I put his name in. You won't believe what this guy does. He is amazing. That's one of the first things that he had ever done was my piece that I bought from him. And I saw that there was a book. There were little videos. This guy is like a Renaissance man. And I mean it literally. he has long white hair. His wife too. She's lovely. He plays the harpsichord. She plays a harpsichord, mandolin. They play these, you know, Renaissance musicians. And he deals with, he's an alchemist, mostly dealing with wax and with gold. And he creates his own. They're mostly can hold in your hand, but brooches.

55:50And he's been commissioned by dukes and duchesses and his works have been in museums and I'm like, oh my God. And I saw there was a book and thank God for Amazon Prime because like I ordered this book, it's just like a coffee tea. It's a big, it's a massive, it's like one inch thick of this guy's work. And I get it again, like the day before we're leaving and I'm like, holy shit, are you kidding me? So it's incredible what happened. So I, I write the, there was no, how do I get in touch with Kevin Coates? Should I go on or do You want to ask another? I mean, this is like... No, no, no. I'm fascinated.

56:26Because you know why I'm fascinated by this? There's almost like this improv-like aspect where the yes and. It's like, you know, the store owner says, do you want to talk to him? And you said yes. I would probably be like, oh, no, you don't have to. Like, I'd feel shy. But you were just like, yes and... Embrace the moment. Carpe diem. It's like, you're right. You're absolutely right. So... And that's related to the whole like, oh, let's just jump on a plane. And even though everyone has said no, including Fellini, I'm going to find him and somehow he's going to give me the rights to his, one of his greatest movies and I'm going to do a stage production of it.

56:59Like it's this kind of, you know, the beginnings of every improv starts like that. That's so beautiful. I love that. I think, you know, if people were more a little bit like that, they would just be trusting the moment, you know? So you got the book from Amazon Prime. Got the book, was blown away by it. There was no, I didn't know how to get in touch with him, but I just go to the back of the book and there was a website for the publisher of the book. So I wrote to the publisher. It just very briefly wrote, I'm on a quest. I had done this trip way back in 19 and just briefly described what I did.

57:31I said, I really would love to get, can you get in touch with Kevin Coates? Is there any way you could forward his, you know, my email to him? And I'll leave it up to him, you know, out of respect. She said, absolutely. She ended up writing me back within a day. I heard back from the publisher, very kind, and sent me an email address. and it turned out that it was Kevin's wife who manages him, and her name's Nell. And so I wrote her a letter and told her about this phone call and buying his artwork. And I just mentioned it, and I said, you know, we're doing this film, and we're going to be shooting it in Italy, and I would love to, you know, someday I would love to meet Kevin and you.

58:12I think you're amazing. And T.S., by the way, I don't know if you've heard of this little show. You know, it's called The Simpsons, and I'm also the voice of Art Simpson. and most fondly Nancy Cartwright and then MyData. So I sent that off, and it's really interesting what happened because it didn't create the effect I thought it was going to create. I thought for sure that I would get a response back. It took a long time. And Kevin is quite a bit older than me. I think he's probably in his 80s. And so I didn't get in. So Simpsons probably meant nothing. I don't think that it meant anything to Nell or him.

58:54And the response was kind of curt. And I thought, wow, wow, that's interesting. Okay. Okay, that's fine. You were used to that. Yeah, yeah. It was a little bit, wow, okay. So we went off anyway and did the trip and did location scouting and had an incredible journey and actually didn't find anybody that had been there when I did it. And that's fine because we were inspired, the three of us, Teron, Peter, and I were so inspired by, invigorated in a new, brand new time. Forget, you know, I said I used little bits and pieces, but it started to evolve into something more than what Peter and I had been creating for 20 years.

59:36And that ended up being, geez, we sat down and in a week, we wrote the script in a week. Because there was so much previous, all the 12 scripts, and that journey added together, and adding Teron's investment of the whole Fellini-esque quality to the film, as you saw. It just, it was so clear what we needed to do. So he's writing scenes, I'm writing scenes. you take Verona, I'm going to take Venice. You know, we're going to, and that's how we kind of work together as writers. It was so, so satisfying. So, and then Teron coming in saying, you got to come over. You got to see what I found. Look at this.

1:00:19Look at the journey of Lucy. It parallels exactly Fellini's movies. This is amazing. I'm telling you, it was so, I just, if every artist could have something like, I think everybody has a story. if every artist could tap into that part of them, some aspect that they are maybe afraid to share, something that is so personal that it would surprise not only you, but others about who you are. That's interesting because it's, so Fellini has a quote. Fellini says, everybody has the potential to be an amazing artist. Yeah. I think people get shut down to that because they get into the, no, you have to do this, this, this, and this.

1:01:04That's what a life is supposed to be. Special people can do other things or people who are a little off or whatever could do other things, but you're doing this to protect yourself and your family. And they forget that artistic side of themselves. Yeah, look at, it was his name, Kevin Potts? The guy that won American Idol? He was, what did he do? He was a, like, was he a truck driver or something? And he's just like the opera. He was the opera singer. His last name was Potts, and even the gal that won. It's like people, these artists that they're artists, but they can't make a living doing their art form, so they have to do other things.

1:01:46But it's hard. It's challenging. How do you express it? You have to find an outlet somehow. You have to also, it seems like, connect the dots. Just like this movie connects the dots of every area of your life. Your own search for mentorship is reflected in Lucy's search for mentorship. Yeah. And mentorship being a key to success for you and for Lucy's journey to finding her authentic self. And also the idea that she's an artist in the beginning, but still needs to figure out how to bring out the authenticity to get rid of the need to lie, which is what happens to all of us. we start to put on the masks early on.

1:02:30And we don't go on that. You said you went initially to Europe. And when you got there, you realize it's like a passport to be somebody else. Yeah. And sometimes you have to be somebody else. Or in other words, you have to travel far, far away to find what's closest to you, to find yourself. And it's not even a physical far, far away. You kind of described it almost as like an emotional or mental one. Or metaphorically. Yeah. Sometimes you have to do that. You suddenly have to divorce yourself from what's happening in order to find what's been there the whole time. And, you know, it's interesting your attachment to Fellini as opposed to, let's say, other directors.

1:03:03You went in search of Fellini. You didn't go in search of, I don't know, Cassavetes or you didn't go down the street to search for Spielberg. You were in search of Fellini. And I wonder if that's somewhat connected to your attraction to Bart and The Simpsons. And I'll explain how. So Fellini, of course, had this whole neorealistic period where it's this combination of surrealism but making a statement about the current moment. And I think that's what The Simpsons is about. It's totally absurdist and surreal. And at the same time, they're always commenting on what's happening right now. James, that's such an interesting viewpoint.

1:03:41It really is. And I haven't written anything yet for The Simpsons. But your attraction, though, to the— obviously, you were attracted to the show and then the character. And then, of course, The Simpsons is defined by Bart in large part. And how you portray him is there's the writing and there's the portrayal, but I don't think you can separate the two. Yeah, I love that. I love that. Yeah, I mean, you look at, you're just talking about my life choices. You know, these decisions that I make, they seem to be, how do I say it? It all seems to be like, oh, yeah, I'm just going to go do this. but there's actually some kind of a form to that madness, right?

1:04:24Yeah, you have a beginning, not an end, but you can see in the arc of your career, there's a beginning, middle, and end. There's kind of this initial part where you have all these different mentorships, including a virtual mentorship at the very least with Fellini. And then you have this middle period where you're searching. You've already had some successes. You're searching for your authentic self. And then from there, it's only a short while after you get back from Italy that you kind of stumble into the Tracy Ullman show and it spins off into the Simpsons. And again, it all seems like attached to your own belief in like these surreal connections between things.

1:05:04You know, like just now you were describing your quest between looking for the sculptor and what's happened to him since. Like connecting all these dots and finding meaning in them is a surreal way to bring it into the moment. And I feel like the movie does that. The Simpsons, your portrayal of Bart does that. Maybe I'm stretching, but that's what I felt to me. I'm fascinated by your viewpoint. You know, I was just thinking, as you said, that the whole thing about the art guy, a little bit more on that to complete that cycle is that we went off on the journey. And then when I came back, I had some photographs of the trip and sent her another letter and sent her photographs.

1:05:47And she saw those. And when she saw those, she got a better idea of the quality of the film that we did. And she wrote me back a little bit faster. And then when we shot the film and got the thing in the can, and I actually got footage on it, then I sent her a little bit of the trailer for it. And now it's like I can't wait. I'm hoping to be able to go to London soon so that I can actually meet them. I just think that would just complete the cycle. But I find it so interesting that, you know, it's like doors can get shut. You know, first writing Fellini, no, no, no, yes. When did you start writing this movie?

1:06:31When was the first time you had the idea, I want to make a movie out of that time in the 80s? Yeah, no, it was doing a monologue. was doing a monologue. I put together a monologue to start working on a one-woman show. And I started doing that for a while. But then within a couple years, I got cast as Bart. I got married. I had two children. I was pulled off. And that wasn't so much. And then I wasn't in class anymore. I wanted to raise my kids. And it was just the class went too late for me. And anyway, I just decided not to be there anymore. But by 95, now my kids were like four and five years old.

1:07:10And I'm like, I got to do this one woman show. So I was invited. No, it was in 93. I think it was in 93. I was invited to a party and it was all artists. It was called a netless party where it was like poets. People could read poetry or do a song or do a monologue or do a dance, some art form that they'd never done before. So it was called netless. So if you do it and it flops, you know, you better, somehow it puts a little pressure there because you'd never done it before. I thought, okay, so I've got this monologue and I'd never done it in my class. I'm going to do it at this party. So I'd written this thing and I'm standing there and I happened to be wearing a nun's, I was wearing a nun's habit because I had this concept.

1:07:53I don't want to go too far off it. It was like Sister Bertrill from The Flying Nun with the wings in the head. And there was some comedy in it. And I said, hi, I just wanted to say, I'm going to do this monologue, but I'm looking for a writer because I'm not a writer, but I want to do a one-woman show. And this is, I've started, but I could use some help. And one guy came up to me at the end, Peter Chenis, and he introduced himself. And man, he's the president of my production company, Spotted Cow Entertainment. He became the editor of the book I wrote in 2000, was my life as a 10-year-old boy.

1:08:30I did it as a one-woman show. I took it on tour as a lecturer, had to get all the actors to sign off release forms, got support from Fox, all this technical stuff that had to do. I've traveled and just had so much fun and we've had so many fun and games together. I just adore this guy. And so this evolution, when we started writing Fellini in 95, we did it as a one-woman show. So that's like 22 years in the making of this movie from first thought to today. Yeah, and so bizarre. It's like back then the actors came to see it at the Theater Geo, and Matt was there, and some of the writers were there, and they've seen me go through this evolution of doing Bart Simpson, doing this one-woman show, getting pregnant, having a baby.

1:09:18Now my son is a father, and I'm a grand— It's just we've all—a lot of us have gotten married, gotten divorces, have children, the longevity of this family, if you will. so to have Mike Scully and Rob Lezebnik, Carolyn O'Meany, you know, Mike Reese come to see the film, you know how touching that is? It's so validating. It makes me feel, it's a great feeling having that support. What do you think contributed to the longevity of The Simpsons? No other TV show has lasted as long, I don't think. Jeff Westbrook. He saw it too. What's the longevity? What's the key to success there? Well, I think just, I mean, the 165 citizens of Springfield, I think there's somebody that you can relate to.

1:10:08If you can't relate to somebody in Springfield, you must be living under a rock, right? But it's not just the relatability, but the team. Oh, man, it's just, no, it's the writers. The writers really put it there for us. And then that also in terms of directing it and that we do about four takes per scene when we go in to record it, and four takes, but give them what's written there, and then if I'm inspired, I'll add a little Nancy improv there. I mean, to watch Dan go off and do his thing as Homer is just incredible. I have to bite my tongue and hold my mouth so I don't ruin his take. It's just watching a one-man show when he gets to go off and do some of these longer, like almost monologues that Homer has.

1:10:54So clearly everybody's doing it, not only, oh, this is my paycheck, but also it's like an act of love. Like they love doing what they do, which is the commitment. Oh my God, we get paid a lot of money to do what we love to do. That's every artist's dream, to be on a show that you love. I mean, I can't imagine what it'd be like doing something that even like, that it would be an integrity. after a while it can become a personal integrity issue where it would be challenging. But you keep doing it in the sense that, I mean, you keep doing the things you love. Like you made this movie. You didn't have to make this movie.

1:11:28Oh, yeah. That's one of my philosophies. It's a successful action. Do what you love. Surround yourself with people that support what you're doing. Be a professional. You know, hit your wagon to a mentor. You know, these are the kinds of things that it has to do with. For anybody, for anybody, not just an artist, for anybody in life. Right, that's like a code for success. Yes, and not to mention these other things you said before, which is like surprise yourself so you can surprise others. Yeah, carpe diem, right, exactly. And just to mention, you're also trying to get a license, a NASCAR racer?

1:11:59158.2 miles an hour. That's my top speed. What's your top speed? 158.2. It was on a track. It was totally legal. My street speed and my Tesla is not quite that high, but I got into triple digits. You know, I had a race car lesson once, and I got really scared, like going above 100. Where were you? Where were you driving it? A track on Monticello, New York. It's the largest - Pretty wide? Yeah, it's actually the largest private racetrack in either the East Coast or the country, I forget. And I had a sitting next to me with his own wheel and it was a nice car. Oh, yeah, yeah. And sitting next to me with his own wheel was some professional - Stock car?

1:12:36Yeah, no, no. It was actually like a$700 ,000 car. Like I was getting, I was gonna write an article about this so they kind of outfitted me with the best. So you didn't have the Simpsons strap in? No. It was just a regular? Oh, James, you daredevil, you. No, but going over 100, I was scared. Yeah, I get it. It's scary. And then you have to make these turns. Yeah, oh, dude. Yeah, I've never done a regular car on a racetrack. I've just done that on the 5 freeway going north. You know, it's like taking the grapevine over. You know, at 5 in the morning, there's nobody out there going north. They're all coming south.

1:13:12So you get your practice of going fast. yeah okay i've done only only one time she says the police this way the police don't have to track you uh-oh nancy's on the road again yeah be aware so in search of fellini are you obviously you're happy with the final product yeah and then get you know the the review that we got with the new york times we're over the moon oh i didn't even see that review what did it say let's throw some some quotes from that in there yeah it's yeah we'll have to i don't i didn't memorize it but it was pretty wow i'm just wow they really i think that the you know the reviewer really understood it like you did i mean you don't for your listeners if you you have back off on seeing this because you don't know who fellini is you've never heard of him it doesn't matter until i should say it totally does not matter you don't need to know felini at all i think maybe a basic understanding that there's a surreal component but it's still very much grounded in a real story yeah Yeah.

1:14:11And you said yourself, actually, with La Strada, which inspired you the most, is probably the most grounded of his movies in terms of having a beginning, middle and end. Yeah, I tend to agree. And this certainly, In Search of Fellini, your movie certainly has a very, I don't want to say traditional, but it has a beginning, middle and end. It's a real story. It's not like it doesn't go off into surreal, although there's components, but like any movie. Yeah, it's not like Satyricon or Hammercorder. Yeah, that's a little bit more out there, you know. So I highly recommend it. I'll tell you just briefly how I felt watching it.

1:14:42A, the movie made me cry, which is rare. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And second, it is like almost you're watching a beautiful story, of course, which is entertaining. But then there's lessons to be learned about how do you find your authentic self? How do you find the artist inside of yourself? You know, it's the pure arc of the hero is in this movie. So it's beautiful. Thank you so much. Highly recommend it. I'm so glad you came on the podcast Nancy Cartwright Bart from The Simpsons so I appreciate that and I appreciate you we had a discussion in the beginning where I kind of you know more or less said if you were comfortable saying the voice of Bart so I'm glad you were able to I think people connect oh okay here's the voice of Bart and then she goes off and does this extremely like creative artistic beautiful movie so it's interesting that people should know too that you can connect the dots all over your life and be artistic in many different endeavors.

1:15:38Yeah. So. Thank you so much. It's such a limited release though. I mean, right now it's only New York and Los Angeles, but we've got, it's coming out in Michigan and Washington and like, just check your local listings as this thing starts to unfold throughout the country. Yeah. And look, movies, I think, have a longer lifespan now just because they have their run and then they also have the run on iTunes. That's right. Or Netflix. Yeah. Yeah. which would be great. Well, thanks again, Nancy, for coming on the show. Thank you so much for having me. Yeah, you're wonderful, James. Oh, thank you. Yeah.

1:16:14God, you're so, you know what I love about you? You can add this if you want. I just, I'll tell you, you just, it's a real conversation. So many interviews with people in your position just have a list of questions and it's your communication. It's like you really listen to what I say. You acknowledge what I say and you take what I say and you're not stuck because we went all over the place on this. And then we kind of wove back and picked it up and then went somewhere else. And it was very much like what the subject was. Well, it's because I do view it as a conversation. I'm learning and you're my mentor in this.

1:16:53Like so many things you said. You're one of the best. I'm telling you, I've done probably a thousand interviews in all these years. I'm not kidding. Well, let's just say hundreds. I've done hundreds and hundreds of them. It's a handful, I'm not kidding, of an individual that does his homework and really knows how to have a conversation. And I really respect you for it because like Johnny Carson, the best. I really appreciate you saying that. And there's so many things from this conversation I'm going to take into my own.

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