Navigating New Frontiers: A Military Tech Overhaul with Chris Kirchhoff

30:03So, you know, and this is an incredible story. It goes to show how one individual can really make a difference. But on our staff was a 29-year-old woman named Lauren Daly. We met the first week in the office as we were getting to know the people that were at the unit. And she said, hey, you know, there's a bunch of people in the acquisition community that have this kind of wild idea for how we could do things differently. and it all relates to a single clause that was inserted into this year's National Defense Authorization Act, the act of Congress that funds the department. And I think this could allow us to actually work with startups on terms they would be willing to do business with us on.

30:48And so my co-author Raj asked Lauren, well, it's great. Can you maybe write up a paper that describes how we could actually do this. And so she hands Raj a 20-page paper. So I've actually written one. So we read it, and we realized that Lauren was really onto something. There was this powerful new authority that a renegade Senate staffer had literally snuck in the dark of night into this enormous law. And so a couple days later, Lauren and I flew to Washington, and we met in quick succession with the head of acquisition policy the Pentagon, the head acquisition lawyer in the Pentagon, and ultimately with the general counsel of the Department of Defense to make sure everybody saw what we saw in the new law and grew a consensus quickly that we should try out a much faster means of contracting.

31:46And so within two weeks, we codified a new policy that allowed us to let a contract between 30 to 60 days and to do so on commercial terms, which was remarkable. It had never really been done before in that way. And so what did you do with it? Well, we then went around to firms we knew had technology that could be useful in military missions and useful right away. I mean, not something that you'd have to like engineer to make work on the battlefield, but something that would be kind of turnkey. And we rapidly set out to begin technology pilots. And we did, I think, 10 or 12 of them in our first 100 days.

32:36And I'll be darned, but like a few of them worked really well. Like what? Well, of all things, we discovered a flying car company in Silicon Valley called Joby Aviation. Joby Aviation was at that time a stealth startup, so they were not advertising themselves. But of course, we knew people who knew them and we got introduced. And they were developing an electronic powered VTOL aircraft. So literally a flying air taxi that can take off and land vertically, but fly horizontally at a very high rate of speed. And we knew that this technology could be really interesting to the military, right? I mean, you don't need a runway to land it.

33:25Unlike a helicopter, it's actually quite quiet. Also, it's smaller. So rather than loading a lot of people on a helicopter, which can be very vulnerable, and we've had some very tragic incidents of losing large numbers of people in helicopter shoot downs. You could disaggregate forces. And Joby, they were very well capitalized. So they actually weren't interested at first in working with the military. They asked the smart question, like what's in it for us? Like we have plenty of money to keep developing our technology. But it turned out we had something they did need, which is that we had military test ranges.

34:07And it's much easier to get on a military test range than it is to get on a civilian test range, much less paperwork, much quicker. I would think you had something else that they needed, which is actually legal viability in use cases. Like it's unclear, like there's hundreds and hundreds of flying car companies out there. And if you go to the Google's patent site, there's gazillion patents on flying car technology. no city is ever going to, at this point, years and years later, no city is even close to approving flying cars. Maybe San Francisco, but that would be about it. But the military can actually use these things.

34:47Yeah. So that's true too. So we were able to look into some, hey, there's an orthogonal mission set. And by experimenting your technology on the mission set, you're going to get a lot of data, you're going to get user feedback, and you're going to be able to fly quickly on our test range. And so began a multi-month period of experimentation. DIU actually acquired the first Joby aircraft. Fast forward eight years later, the Joby eVTOL aircraft is presently undergoing operational testing with the Air Force. It's about to become a part of the U.S. Air Force fleet, which is an - And what will it do?

35:29Well, it will perform a number of potential missions. One is transporting people. Another is transporting supplies. And because the vehicle can be both piloted, but also has autonomous capabilities, you can just imagine how this would be useful to move and resupply troops or forward positions that are in areas of danger and risk, where you wouldn't want to ask a helicopter crew to go in if you didn't have to. So there's a world of possibility that the Air Force will have open to it as they begin to acquire Joby aircraft at scale.

36:27it seems like also you've done a lot of stuff with drones and like you mentioned with ukraine these kamikaze drones in mass are are taking out the last generation of military innovation with the hundred year old technology of tanks so so it seemed and drones is something that's been fairly big in Silicon Valley over the past 10 years. What are some of the successes with drones? So very early at DIU, we were aware of, you know, things that were happening on the battlefield in places like Syria, Afghanistan, and Iraq. And there were two things happening. One, ISIS and Taliban fighters were actually acquiring commercial drones, you know, commercially, literally off Amazon, primarily through the company DJI, the Chinese drone maker that makes the most popular drones.

37:23And they were using them against US forces. And they were using them to do things like disrupt special forces rates because the drone would be able to spot our assault teams coming. They also at times early in our existence used them to drop grenades and actually kill US troops. So that called the attention of battlefield commanders. Hey, our fairly unsophisticated adversaries that don't have, you know, their own predator drones or their own helicopters or their own fighter aircrafts are nevertheless finding ways to defeat our very sophisticated technology using cheap consumer drones. And then the other thing that was happening was our forces had access to very sophisticated high-end drones, surveillance drones, and they had access to some tactical drones, but nothing as simple and easy to operate as a DGI drone.

38:19So some units were literally taking DGI drones with them into combat, some US units, and using them for reconnaissance, using them for surveillance. And that was a problem because DGI drones being Chinese made, we couldn't be sure that they weren't recording where they were in the world and what they were looking at and then uploading that information ultimately to Chinese servers. So in response to these developments, Defense Innovation Unit, and this is something we disclosed for the first time in the book, started a special task force called Rogue Squadron. and Rogue Squadron was the military's first commercial drone unit.

39:05And it was started by two real renegades, Mark Jacobson, an Air Force at that time, Lieutenant Colonel, and Ryan Beal, a Navy helicopter pilot who was also a coder. And both of them were drone hobbyists. They loved drones. Like between the two of them, I think they owned over 50 different commercial drones that they just had been playing with, kind of Mad Max style. And so they set up, literally in the parking lot of Defense Innovation Unit, a test range where they could fly the drones they had, drones, prototype drones from startups in Silicon Valley, companies that were testing out counter-drone technology, and they began to experiment.

39:51it? You know, what, what could we do about adversaries that are using DJI drones? Are there ways to disrupt them? Are there ways to, if we capture one of them, exploit it and figure out where the operator launched it from? Can we take DJI drones that are being used by American forces because they're the only consumer drone on the market, you know, that has so much capability, They have 90 % of the market share. And can we make them safe so that we can be sure that the locations where they're being used won't be disclosed, won't slip out to somebody else's computer servers? And in short order, they did all of these things.

40:37And that led to some really important programs that are still ongoing in the military today. one program to make commercial drones safe, to literally declare, okay, you know, these drones are safe to be used by the U.S. military, by other government entities, because we can be sure there's not a counterintelligence risk. And then other efforts to create both offensive and defensive drone technology that today is being used in Ukraine. Yeah, and then Palmer Luckey, the guy who started Oculus, which sold for$2 billion to Facebook with a virtual reality headset maker. He started a drone company. Yeah, I mean, so Palmer Luckey, clearly one of the most incredible technologists of our generation, came to visit my co-author Raj at Defense Innovation Unit along with another venture capitalist, Trey Stevens, somebody that had a lot of national security experience, had himself worked in the intelligence community and then worked for Palantir before going to Founders Fund, one of the more prominent venture capital firms here in Silicon Valley.

41:50And they were trying to imagine, hey, if we could create a new company focused on this whole new generation of advanced defense technology, how should we do it? What are the most important problems that software and hardware designed by leading product engineers could solve? So they came by to have a chat with Raj to kind of brainstorm together. And that brainstorm, before they even sort of decided to formally build a company and ultimately name it Anderol, gave birth to today what is one of the most important new companies in the world in terms of the technology it's producing. and you know fast forward just a few short years and are all in something that really was a surprise an astonishing development won a major contract from the u.s air force probably the most important contract the u.s air force has let in the last 20 years to develop something called combat collaborative aircraft.

42:55So these are supersonic stealth drones that will fly alongside F-35s and other manned aircraft and give the Air Force whole new capabilities. You know, a fleet of swarming supersonic stealthy drones that can both perform reconnaissance missions, but also can perform strike missions. And the two final performers as that contract competition went forward were both non-traditional. One was General Atomics, not necessarily known for building aircraft, and then the other was Anderol. And this is a huge success. This shows that what Defense Innovation Unit set out to do is actually happening in that we now have venture capitalists that are viewing the military as a viable customer, as a customer that's not going to just make its startups go bankrupt if they try and compete for contracts.

43:57And that in turn has led a whole new generation of founders to say, you know, I actually want to focus on building the next generation of military technology. And so you have not only Anderol, but other companies like Shield AI, like Joby, like SailDrone, that are becoming unicorns, whose valuations are now north of a billion dollars, joining the first league of defense, sort of SpaceX and Palantir, in this whole new generation of companies that are now selling really advanced technology developed in modern ways by leading Silicon Valley engineers to the military. Well, you know, and you mentioned Palantir.

44:41Wasn't Palantir initially funded by In-Q-Tel, which was kind of the CIA equivalent of what you were doing with DIU? So there was kind of this something already happening, but it was more on the CIA side in terms of, you know, funding startups. Yeah, In-Q-Tel is a really amazing and interesting institution. It is actually a venture fund, unlike Defense Innovation Unit, which simply invests in R &D pilots. So it doesn't actually buy a stake in a company. It just buys their product to try out. In-Q-Tel was created in the wake of 9-11 by some visionary people who realized, as our boss, Secretary of Ash Carter, did, that the U.S.

45:31government's monopoly on advanced technology was starting to dissipate. that the rise of companies like Apple, Amazon, Microsoft, each of whom had Google, each of whom had a market capitalization larger than the entire defense industry combined, meant that the locus of innovation was shifting out to the commercial sector. And so unless the intelligence community was also able to access that technology ecosystem, the sort of James Bond Q shop of special toys, would eventually be outpaced by what you could buy in the consumer market. And so In-Q-Tel has been out in the valley for a long time and invests fairly small amounts of money as a way of observing what technology could be used by the intelligence community and then making introductions between those companies and potential customers within the IC.

46:29And so that model was important for us to replicate in many ways and build on, but for the Department of Defense, which is a very different creature than the intelligence community and has a different mission set as well as a different scale to it. And where did you guys intersect with AI? Like, how did you start bringing AI? I know AI was a big focus for you. So how did you start bringing AI up to speed for the military? Well, when we arrived in Silicon Valley in 2016, that was a year where, in particular, machine learning was really coming of age. And so machine learning was beginning to be as accurate as a human in spotting certain things.

47:19So that's really incredible, right? There's a machine almost as good or even in small use cases better than human eyeballs at processing data or information. So right away we realized, well, here we are still sort of fighting the wars in the aftermath of 9-11 in Iraq and Afghanistan and facing insurgents that are implanting IEDs, which can still be destructive even to our most advanced armor. So we built this massive surveillance system to surveil the battlefield and to try and track insurgents, spot them planting IDs. And so there's one device in particular called Gorgon Stare, which is a drone, or you can actually put it on a balloon as well, an aerostat.

48:17and it will essentially use hundreds of cameras to look at an area the size of Disney World and take multiple snapshots a second of what's going on with video and photography. So this is a massive amount of data to process. Way more data than any team of human analysts could day in, day out keep track of. So we, along with some others in the Pentagon, began an initiative called Project Maven, which was an experiment to see could machines and machine learning algorithms begin to process this data in ways that could flag places where human analysts might want to go back and look. So can we tell the difference between a tank and an ambulance?

49:10Can we identify markers that you would want to go back and have an actual human intelligence look at from this gigabytes and terabytes of imagery that's coming off multiple platforms? And that led to a real breakthrough, which showed that, yes, you actually can use machine learning much more efficiently than the limited number of intelligence analysts you have. And it ultimately led to the creation of something called the Joint AI Center in the Pentagon, which was an attempt to centralize a group of experts, technologists, and military strategists to seed AI across the military and to take it into many more different mission sets.

50:00And what other successes have come out of that? Like what other technologies are we using now? Well, on artificial intelligence, I mean, everything from using it to predict aircraft maintenance. So, you know, every modern aircraft has got a lot of parts in it. They all break at different rates. You can replace them on a set schedule, but you're still going to get surprised based on the conditions you're deploying the aircraft in. And so if you can just figure out a few parts that are likely to break the next flight cycle and go ahead and replace them now rather than have an aircraft have to return to base and not be able to complete a mission, that's a huge gain in operational performance.

50:45And so one of AI's other early successes in the department was helping increase the number of flyable hours that aircraft and unmanned platforms were able to achieve. AI is now more recently being used in even more advanced mission sets. So one of the most successful defense innovation unit programs today that happened long after Raj and I left the unit happened with the Navy's underwater mine detection mission. So mines, which are military technology that actually date to ancient China, I think like literally to the main dynasty or hundreds of maybe not that far back, but hundreds of years ago.

51:32Mines were also used in the American Revolutionary War, in the Civil War, and they're still around today. And it turns out, particularly in some of the most likely potential conflict scenarios, including Taiwan, mining could be very decisive. So the Navy works hard at being good at having autonomous vehicles that can, as well as ships, that can go out and detect where mines have been planted and then diffuse them before they collide with a Navy ship or a submarine. And artificial intelligence underwater proves to be really important to increasing the efficiency of an underwater vehicle to be able to notice, hey, what's that anomaly over there?

52:22Maybe I should go take a look at it now and have an algorithm that will redirect this underwater vehicle in that direction rather than have to wait for data collectors to pull the tape from the vehicle, process it and say, oh shoot, I wish we would have, now we have to mount another underwater vehicle to go take a second look. So little upgrades like that have, in cases doubled or quadrupled the mission effectiveness of some of these underwater vehicles, which is a very important development for the US Navy. Are there any technologies that have kind of ethical issues in commercial use that you wouldn't have in like military use?

53:08So for instance, facial recognition. So obviously facial recognition in the consumer space, it was kind of floated out there and then quickly slapped down. You know, oh, we think we might see you in a photo. I would get these messages on Facebook, but then that technology sort of went away from commercial use for good reason. But obviously with military use, it could be important. Like, oh, we have this satellite footage of this marketplace in Afghanistan. Turns out one of the big military leaders is there because we recognize him from the satellite using our facial recognition technology. Is there any initiatives like that, or do you get slowed down by the commercial ethical issues?

53:53Well, I mean, it's always important with technology, whether it's in a consumer context or a governmental context or a law enforcement context or a military context, to be very attuned to ethical issues. And, you know, as we experienced with Project Maven, where there was a large protest by some Google employees who were caught off guard by the fact that their company was engaged in this technology pilot and also had a misunderstanding based on a fairly sensational headline. You know, this is a story about how one headline can really impact a large number of people into thinking about something the wrong way.

54:39The headline implied that Google was working on an offensive drone warfare project rather than a defensive surveillance analysis project. But in any event, you know, technologists that are producing this technology have, of course, a special responsibility to being attuned to its use cases and to speak up when they see potential harms because they may well see those harms before others, you know, as do, of course, you and I as citizens. So, yes, certainly there are examples like face recognition technology that, you know, you or I would not want to be deployed, you know, by our local mall security, right, or potentially by police forces in our city, but that you would imagine, you know, we would both feel comfortable deploying on the battlefield.

55:29But there's actually, it cuts another way as well, which is that if you and I are using a commercial laptop and it crashes and has to restart, it's no big deal, right? Maybe this podcast gets interrupted. Maybe you get cut out of a Zoom meeting for a few minutes. But if that's the computer running an airplane that you're flying in, it crashing and restarting could be a real problem. So there is a phrase that's fair that says beta testing can kill people. And that speaks to part of the skepticism that is fair from people in the military that say, for so long, consumer technology, sure, I mean, it was fun.

56:18Like, my kids have iPhones, but do we actually know it's going to perform on the battlefield in different conditions, in high temperatures, under extremes, under high G loads? So there has to be a way also to make sure that commercial technology that may work well in everyday life will also work well on the battlefield. Yeah, so with facial recognition, is this something that is starting to be considered for military use or these types of technologies? uh well there's yeah there is a you know quite a history to this and this goes back to um actually the iraq war where um you know during an incredible insurgency the u.s military was doing its best to try and secure the iraqi population and make them safe by um uh figuring out the, you know, who the small number of insurgents were, um, and, and, and trying to, to, um, take them off the battlefield.

57:23And, um, you know, it's, it's really interesting. I got a chance to serve as a civilian in Iraq and in parts of 2006 and 2007, so the most violent years of the war. And, you know, just one or two people out of a hundred, it turns out, can, um, really cause a breakdown in sovereignty can take a village or a town from a place of relative peace to one of extreme violence where everyone's stuck inside their homes. And so even then there was a question of biometric identification. How do we know when we capture somebody in a house we just rated, who they actually are and, you know, have we captured them before and released them because we thought they weren't actually part of an insurgent cell, but then we find them again with explosive residue on their hand.

58:20So yeah, indeed, these are the kinds of technologies that matter because on the battlefield, they help you separate combatant from civilian. And so you would want a military, particularly one that abides by the laws of war and does its best to minimize harms to civilians to be equipped with technology that's very good at identifying people. And is the technology getting there? Is the technology good now? Well, this is a little bit outside my domain, but this has indeed been a huge focus of the the intelligence community and the US military. And I have to imagine that the technology today is a lot better than it was a generation ago.

59:06I mean, given what you know and your experiences with the DIU and again, bridging this gap between Silicon Valley and the military and all the things you discussed in your book, if you were to start a company today to bridge this gap, what would you focus on? Well, we're in this interesting moment, right? Where, again, the civilian technology economy, the consumer market has grown so much larger than the military one. So I would start a company that would take areas where the consumer technology market is clearly in the lead and apply that to technologies that would help us make us more safe and secure.

59:50So artificial intelligence has sort of become a canonical example, right? I mean, this is arguably the first major technology that, yeah, sure, there was some government R &D much earlier, but the generative AI wave that we're now living through, which is extraordinary. I mean, it's like a Thomas as a light bulb moment. That was produced entirely by the private sector, by, you know, three companies, four companies, three of whom are within 10 miles of where I am right now. And so I would want to position myself to take those leading-edge technologies and then imagine the ways they can be used differently than the existing technologies we use to keep ourselves safe and secure.

1:00:41uh like like what specific like okay if i were to throw something out i would want to create something that could scan all email sent to anybody to see what might be to flag what might be suspicious you know terrorists talking to each other about plans to attack something and again ethical qualms aside like that would seem to be a useful thing in the military and and possible Like in the sense that you could probably, there's probably plenty of examples of suspicious emails over the decades that you could analyze and learn from to create an AI language model that could at least help flag potential dangerous emails.

1:01:25That's, I mean, certainly an intelligence community mission. um uh i mean the things that i think about as as somebody you know as a national security strategist um uh you know uh that are certainly top of mind um are you know how do we uh make sure we don't get into a great power war um you know a war between truly advanced militaries right i mean we haven't had a a great power war for three generations now since the second world war and And what happened there was horrific. It was on a scale unlike any of the other conflicts that we're seeing today. So, and, you know, one certain worry that I think, you know, more people are talking about now is the United States and China.

1:02:12You know, as our relationship, which is one still today of incredible economic interdependence, is running into more tensions. Tensions about Taiwan, tensions about China's behavior to its neighbors. tensions about China's economic coercion of other nations. So as we try and think about rising global tensions between two superpowers that are both very advanced, how can we keep the peace? And of course, one of the ways of keeping the peace is to field military systems that alter the calculus of your adversary, that make them think it's just not worth it to try and go to war. that even though for our own reasons, we might want to make Taiwan, our long lost province, come back to the homeland.

1:03:10Maybe we need to shift the calculus so that the costs of doing that are simply too high. So those are some of the military problems that I think about when I try and imagine and how new technology could actually make a real difference. How would you make the cost of invading Taiwan too high other than with nuclear, you know, the threat of nuclear weapons?

1:03:35Well, you know, so Taiwan's an island, right? I mean, you have to get there, right? You have to cross a sea. And so I think that's, you know, where a fight over Taiwan would take place. And so you have to imagine under incredibly pressurized circumstances, far more so than today on the battle lines of Ukraine, you know, with massive electronic warfare capabilities on both sides, how in a very contested environment would you be able to stop an invasion? So a technology that's autonomous, that can fight through jamming, that can operate in areas where it's not going to be able to connect with global positioning systems, where it's going to have to figure out where it is on its own.

1:04:28Those are the kinds of systems I think that will be most important to deterring conflict in Taiwan. So, you know, it seems like it's going to be very hard ultimately as technology improves. Like, let's say drones could be the size of mosquitoes. And let's say they're all equipped with GPS and facial recognition software and explosives. So you could imagine China sending in a million of these mosquito drones into Taiwan. Oh, I recognize this person. He's the leader of Taiwan. Here's the generals of Taiwan. and in one hour, go at supersonic speeds from China over to Taiwan, high enough that it can't be affected by any ships that might be protecting Taiwan and just take everyone out that they need to very quickly.

1:05:24And there's almost nothing we could do about something like that as the technology improves. Well, this brings to mind an older literature and political science that is newly relevant on something called strategic stability. And one of the counterintuitive outcomes of the proliferation of nuclear weapons, so nuclear weapons developed, as we've all seen in the movie Oppenheimer, here by the United States in Los Alamos, but quickly stolen by the Soviets. From there, nuclear technology proliferates in the next couple decades to a small number of other nations around the world. So the question is, did nuclear weapons make the world a more dangerous place?

1:06:14I mean, these are horrifically destructive weapons. Or did they actually make the world a safer place because they reduced the likelihood that nations that had nuclear weapons would actually go to war with one another because a nuclear exchange is no good for anybody. And indeed, in certain ways, the advent of nuclear proliferation has reduced great power conflict demonstrably. Now, you know, there are limits to this. Would you want everybody in the world to have their own personal nuclear weapon? You certainly wouldn't. And so one of the open questions that we should all be alert to as citizens is, is some of this new autonomous technology driven by AI going to increase strategic stability?

1:07:00Is it going to make great power war, make war less likely because of the high costs involved for war to break out? Or is it going to, in different ways, destabilize the international system where one nation gains a sudden advantage that changes the calculus it has about whether it will go to war against another in a particular circumstances? So these are all things that are now being very actively studied and debated, not only by national security strategists, but by a lot of other Americans who are, you know, I've seen all the Hollywood movies, right, about the Terminator and should be very focused on how technology is changing our world.

1:07:47yeah i guess even in like cyber security like you look what happened a few weeks ago with crowd strike now we think that wasn't some sort of hack by a foreign you know actor but uh it could have been and we see how quickly it you know took down almost the whole infrastructure of you know many industries across the world and we could see as as cyber security gets even more sophisticated particularly when combined with AI, that could easily happen again and again and again. And I worry we're heading into some kind of black hole where the technology gets so good of offense and there is no defense and we're just in nonstop trouble.

1:08:31Well, this brings to the fore another concept that comes out of the Cold War and strategic stability and military history and strategy more generally, which is the offensive defense balance and how will technology change it. And, you know, again, anytime you experience a major shift, something that gives the offense dominance, you know, then you may end up in a situation where countries, if they have a reason to go to war, will judge that, well, you know, maybe we actually have a shot at achieving our objectives at a cost that is acceptable to us. And so you can imagine a nightmare scenario, right, where AI gets very good at hacking or creating cyber disruptions.

1:09:19But it's equally true that AI, as DARPA has demonstrated in some very advanced experiments, including their cyber challenge, that AI can also be used to autonomously patch systems. and much more quickly detect vulnerabilities in code than human cybersecurity professionals. So again, it's an open question. Will really powerful AI models in the end be a threat to cybersecurity or will they enhance it? What do you think? Well, I think the jury is out. but if I were an advanced country that requires a lot of microprocessors to make my daily life work, I mean, my toaster downstairs has got a microprocessor in it, right?

1:10:13I would want to make a lot of investments right now in AI tools that will enhance cyber defense because it's my interest to make sure my very vulnerable and tightly coupled infrastructure will stay safe. So all these things should hopefully be guiding the investments we make as a nation, as a society. And we better get them right, because if we get them wrong, we're going to be exposing ourselves and our way of life to risk. Well, from your mouth to God's ears, or at least the government's ears, as they start purchasing more and more of these technologies, And you did a great thing by starting this DIU to bridge this gap between the technology of Silicon Valley and the needs of the military.

1:11:05And you and Raj Shah, your partner in this, wrote about it in the book Unit X, how the Pentagon and Silicon Valley are transforming the future of war. So really great stuff. We only touched the surface of it. There's so many technologies that we're being left in the dust on, and now we've been catching up, and you describe a lot of this. And it's also a good textbook on how to deal with bureaucracy. It was really fascinating how you worked around some of the issues and some of the problems that you almost found yourself in. So very riveting story, Unit X. Thank you so much. Thanks for coming on the podcast.

1:11:43Thanks for having me on.

1:11:49Thank you.