Navy SEAL Dad Reveals How to Raise Confident Kids After Divorce | Brandon Webb

26:08They need these tiny little stressors to grow up into confident, resilient kids. And if parents, if you rob them of that, you always go ask for the autograph yourself. You're doing everything for these kids, overprotecting them. You end up with kids who are in college that are just shocked at how the real world works, and they're not prepared for adulthood. And I think that puts them at risk. So, you know, the ordinary magic is I talk about in the book is super important that we let the kids experience this stuff. And the last story I'll finish with when I wrote the book, I sent the kids three questions.

26:48And one of the three questions was, what's one thing that you remember about me as your father that really stuck with you? And Jackson, my oldest, says, he's like, it was when I came to New York, you had got me a summer internship. He was 16, about to turn 17. He's like, you gave me an MTA card and told me how to get to work and let me do it on myself. He's like, I knew that none of my friend's parents would do that for them. Jackson's telling me this as a 24-year-old tech company founder, that that was like a super pivotal point in his life. that he felt like, wow, my dad believes in me. My dad trusts me.

27:27I'm responsible. I can do this. That made a huge impact on him. And to me, I forgot that long ago. But it shows you how powerful these little ordinary moments can be in the development of a child.

27:38James Altucher:You know, related to that, and you talk about this in the book, is the role of failure. So A, how to learn from failures, but B, also how to accept responsibility for failures. And I think a lot of parents, you know myself included they don't want their kids to ever experience failure because we've experienced it and by the way it's very unpleasant and you never want your kids to to have to think alone at night in their bed i always picture my kids just crying by themselves at night in their bedrooms and i don't want them to experience that and so you try to protect your kids from failure like you know i'll give a kind of abstract example this is not about chess but i'll ask you like Like when they were younger, did you let your kids win?

28:21Or did you crush them?

28:25James Altucher:Not just chess, like anything. Like did you try to protect them from failure is really the question? Or did you kind of do anything you can so that they experience success? And what's good or bad in this? The answer is sort of unclear. Well, I think the data says, and I talk about a study they did in Stanford where they had two sets of kids. One set was encouraged to fail and try and they were praised for their ability to kind of like take on a challenge and even though if it didn't go well, they were encouraged like, wow, you did a great job at that. Let's try over again, right? So that was that set of kids and the other set of kids were just praised constantly.

29:14Like, wow, you're so good. You're so smart. And as the challenges ramped up, the kids that were praised just for being smart stopped taking risks. They didn't want to be seen as dumb because they're like, wow, I'm being told I'm smart. I'm being praised for being this smart kid. So I don't want to make a mistake. I'm afraid to kind of take on this challenge where these kids were just like excelling because they'd been praised differently. Praised for failing and trying over again as opposed to just the kind of, which goes to this kind of culture that was really, I think, a millennial trend at the time was everybody gets a trophy.

29:53Everyone is special. Well, life doesn't work that way outside of that system. And so I think for me, I knew the value of failing and how it was a learning lesson. I tell tons of stories. And yeah, as a parent, you don't want to have your kids suffer or cry. And the first time I remember, and I have two boys and a girl, was when my daughter was testing for her purple belt. And her brother, her older brother, I drove up to Paso Robles for the tests. They did the whole, you know, we're in the dojo. Every time I think of that, I think of that movie Foot Fist Way. I don't know. Foot Fist Way? It's with Danny McBride.

30:40It's a hilarious movie. He's like this overzealous Taekwondo teacher, right? But it's a good, put it on your list to watch. Yeah, that's a good one. I'll get it right. If you watch Napoleon Dynamite, it's kind of the Rex Kondo guy, right? Remember Rex Kondo? Grab my wrist. Yeah, the wrist. But anyway, they're doing their tests. All the students are there. The parents are in the back. You know, they do her whole thing. And then afterwards, students sit down. They get called one by one. They have to stand up. And I remember her brother stands up, bows to the sensei, and he's like, okay, you did this right.

31:15This is stuff you need to work on, but you did a good enough job. Here's your belt. Can we get the belt? And when it came down to my daughter, same thing. She stood up very stoically, and he gave the same critique. You know, this is the front of a room full of parents and their peers. And he's like, yeah, you didn't do a good enough job. You're not going to get your belt today. And she sat back down, stoic face. I told her mom, like, let me take her home. separately so I can talk with her. When we got to the car, she broke down in tears. My brother got his belt and I'm not good enough. She just lost it.

31:48And you feel so bad. I wanted to cry with her. But I knew that this would be a great learning experience for her because I knew she was going to retest in two, three weeks. And I told her, I was like, look, this is the way life is. You're going to test and you're going to earn it And you're going to feel very good about it because you'll have known that you earned it. It wasn't just handed to you. You know, and then a couple weeks later, I got a text from her mom with a big smile on her face, and she's holding the belt in her hand. It's nice. These are the things that are gifts for our children.

32:24As much as we, it's hard to discipline sometimes and see your kids suffer, but you also realize, hopefully realize that this is something that they need and will make them a better person. And again, the one thing I wish I had have done better, and I didn't realize this until I was writing the book, because one of the three questions I asked all the kids before I started writing was, what do you wish I had done better as your father? And my daughter, Madison, she said, Dad, you were my hero. You were always setting a great example. but I wish you had have shared with me about your own struggles and your own failures because I would have felt safer to kind of struggle and fail.

33:14Like it wouldn't have been this bad thing. I would have taken more risk probably. And she was telling me this as a 21-year-old and I'm like, wow, wow, I wish I had have done that. Because my thing was I need to be an exemplary dad when I have them because I didn't have them full-time. I need to be on full dad mode, no cell phone. And I did that. But the one thing I wish I had have done in hindsight was share more stories about my own personal challenges and overcoming them. Because it would have obviously made an impact on my daughter.

33:50James Altucher:So one of the three questions. So it's like, what do you remember from your childhood about me as a parent? It's what could I have done better? What's the other question? yeah the other one was to define my parenting style in one sentence like that those the three questions and to your point first i don't think people are good at asking questions right like we you and i had 20 minutes catch up and we had an honest catch up about what's happening in our life or most people say oh how are you how's your day my day is good you know that's bullshit you know It's like, no, actually, my freaking back is killing me.

34:25My freaking, my great-grandmother just broke her hip. You know, like that's the real stuff. But we don't get to that. And I think as parents, we need to ask better questions. If you asked your kid how their day was, it's a bullshit question and you're going to get a bullshit answer. Rather say, if today in school was a movie, what would it be called and why? Like that's going to get a very interesting answer as opposed to like. and so you know the and I always try and be a good question asker when another thing I did with the kids was and the agreement that their mom and I had because she had them for most of the time they had one stable house I would get them on all the big vacations and I could take them on a one-on-one trip every year because I found that getting them alone like one-on-one with me, they behave very differently than when they're in the sibling pack, the wild pack.

35:23And I still do that to this day. So I asked my youngest, he's a freshman at University of Oregon, and I said, hey, what do you want to do this year? He's like, Wemby, who's a super tall basketball player for the Spurs, he's like, Wemby's playing the Brooklyn Nets, let's go to New York and do a dad-son trip. So we went, we saw Wemby, we saw a New York Rangers hockey game, and I took him to dinner and I was like, okay, I want to have, I want to check in with him because he's a freshman in college. You know, I just want to see, you know, how it's going. So I was like, I need to ask, you know, a couple of good questions.

35:56So I did my research. I'm like, okay, I think I even asked Claude. I'm like, what's some good questions? So I asked him two questions that lasted four hours of dinner conversation. It was, first one was like, what's something that you're feeling a lot of pressure on that your mom and I may not notice? and what's something that's happening to you at school right now, things that you were doing that maybe you realize aren't serving your best interest, like you're kind of wasting your time doing. Those are the two questions. And the answer to the first one blew me away because he says, Dad, a lot of my friend's parents, even my girlfriend's parents, they put a lot of pressure on me because of your identity as a SEAL.

36:39They're always asking me, oh, are you going to be a SEAL like your dad? What are you going to do? He's like, I get a lot of pressure from these adults. And so we had a whole conversation about his future and how all his mom and I want for him is for him to be happy and find his thing. And then I had a conversation. I was like, don't let these adults who are putting their own bullshit insecurities on you as a 19-year-old. You know, it's like, don't, you gotta realize, like, we're all dealing with things, you know, Adults all have different things and anxieties and pressures and lost dreams. So don't let them put their own baggage on you.

37:20And then the other answer to the question, he said that he felt he was getting peer pressured into going to parties at college. And he's like, Dad, I don't even like to drink. And I feel like my roommate's peer pressuring me to go out every night. And it's like, I just don't like it. So we had a whole conversation about peer pressure. and being a leader, and standing up for yourself. But that was four hours of conversation at dinner. I'm like, that's why you got to ask good questions as a parent.

37:52James Altucher:It's so important because it's so easy to slip into the pattern of like, hey, how was school? When really, it's like they're not going to lift their eyes from the screen. They're just going to say, good. And there's no content. But kind of like the way you put it, if you could say what movie today's day of school was, what would it be? That makes them, they have to at least lift up for a second to think about it.

38:29Also, I think the chapter I really enjoyed writing was on discipline because I think a lot of, again, back to the question asking, a lot of parents, and it's something we made a mistake, Gretchen and I as co-parents, we made plenty of mistakes. And a common one is we would over-punish. Because when you realize when your kid does something, either it's in putting their future in jeopardy or maybe putting them in physical danger, you have this emotional reaction and as parents especially as the way i was disciplined i remember my mom would like have my rap sheet out when my dad came home after like having a few beers with the guys in the construction site and then i would just get hauled upstairs and get a leather belt to my bare ass and nobody asked me like why are you behaving like this like what's the cause of this behavior?

39:29No one asked me that. Would you have been able to answer? Would you have known why you were behaving like that? Yeah, I think I would have got to a point of it. Because the point is, what really surfaced for me was when our youngest was having, he was struggling in middle school as a seventh grader. He was getting D's and F's, hanging out with a bad friend group. I know his older brother, who was very active, both him and his older sibling, I mean, they get along great, and they're always looking out for each other. But his older brother called me. He's like, Dad, you know, he's getting in. He's doing some things that he probably shouldn't be doing and making money certain ways.

40:07And I'm like, I kind of read between the lines. Like, oh, he's freaking selling drugs. So this was him as a seventh grader, right? And a seventh grader, his older siblings in high school, all their sibling friends knew who this young kid was, Tyler, because he was like the cool middle school kid selling them pot gummies at recess to all the high schoolers, right? Oh my gosh. It's like crazy. So anyway, his mom's calling me once a week when I'm in New York. You got to take this kid. I don't know what to do with him. I was researching military schools. Then he gets suspended. She calls me. Hey, he got suspended from school.

40:44We need to freaking drop the hammer on him and discipline. So parents have this emotional reaction and they go right into the punishment. And... And I remember, because this same therapist that helped us with our divorce, we had used a few times to kind of like for conflict resolution with her and I, but also like we had questions about tricky situations with the kids. And this is one of them. So I said, look, let's call Dr. Baker and I'll set up a call. And the three of us can get on. So we had this whole chat with the psychologist. And she says, look, he's acting out for some reason. Like your job is to, for one, boys going through that developmental stage from 12 to 15.

41:29She's like hormones, all sorts of things. This is such a risky time. And if you don't make him feel supported, you could push him away and lose him forever. And I was like, wow, that's crazy. So she's like, you need to get to the why of the behavior. So I flew to Portland. He's suspended, right? He had lots of time off. And I spent two weeks with him, and I got to the Y. And it turns out, and the reason he got suspended, it was a culmination of bad behavior, but he had ordered pizza on Uber Eats to the classroom, like Spicoli and Fausti, and the teacher freaking outraged, right? So the teacher's eating the pizzas, and then she's like, you can't do this, you can't send pizza to class.

42:16So the next day, he tried to work around, and this had them all sent to the principal's office. So that got him suspended. And so I found out that he's like, Dad, you know why I'm acting out? Because I can't stand my homeroom teacher. She has embarrassed me over and over in front of my classmates. And it turns out what she said was some terrible stuff. And he's like, I think I'm trying to show her that I'm in control, not her. And I was like, wow. That's pretty self-aware. Yeah, but it took us a while to get there. And one of the things this teacher said in Oregon, who is a white woman, she screamed at him one day in front of his classmates and said he was a victim of white privilege, among a lot of other terrible things.

43:03And I'm like, how could you say that to a 12-year-old kid in front of his classmates? So we went to the principal. Turns out this teacher had had 20 complaints against her. And he was like, there's nothing we can do. We're shorthanded. We don't have enough teachers. So his mom and I decided, take him out of the environment. So sometimes you have to change the environment because environment is very important. We pulled him out of school. We told him, look, we're taking your side here. We're trusting in you and we got your back. We're taking you out of school and this is the plan. We're going to go on independent studies for the rest of seventh grade, eighth grade, and then you start high school with a clean slate.

43:43The relief on his face when we told him we had his back, it was like nothing I'd ever experienced and I was like whoa this this is gonna be very good for him all of a sudden his grades shot up to b average COVID happened his eighth grade year so all his friends were on homeschool anyway and then he started high school at the clean slate and carried a three point plus average all through high school and it's the kid that was failing out and ended up getting in with a much better friend group, and still wasn't perfect. He got, this is another story I talk about in the book, but first, let me finish on the discipline side.

44:23So getting to the why of the behavior is so important. Making your kids feel heard and supporting them, huge. And most parents don't do that. They go right to the punishment. They want to just sentence, you know, bang the gavel and sentence them. And without getting to the kind of core issue of the behavior, So that's why I made a checklist for the discipline in puddle jumpers. The other thing I think parents do is they have a tendency to over-advocate for the kids. So now he's in high school. He had a growth spurt. He went from like 5 '5 to 6 '3. And he's a basketball player. So gets recruited to the basketball team.

45:05Two weeks later, coach sends his mom an email. Hey, I'm kicking your son off the team. He's unfocused. He's a distraction to other players. his ego, blah, blah, blah. Just the rap sheet went on. I was like, oh, wow. You know, the first reaction is, okay, F that coach. My kid is the best player on the team. I'm going to go and get him back on the team. So his mom and I talked. I was like, well, let's use this as a learning. Like we took the feedback seriously, which I think a lot of parents don't do. They just want to protect the kid and get the kid back on the team. I told his mom, I was like, this is going to be, I know how much he wants.

45:43to be on that basketball team, especially on game day and suit up with all his buddies. Like, this is going to be a good learning experience for him. He needs this because he was a little cocky. And man, that chip got knocked right off his shoulder. I, again, I flew to Oregon. I had a lot of conversations with him about dealing with my own experience with what I call talented jerk. You know, these people that are extremely talented, they know they're talented, but they can't work in a team because their ego gets in the way and there are freaking nightmares to work with. I see it in the author space, the musician space.

46:18It's like, people got to want to work with you. They got to want to like to work with you. And so next year, he makes the team as a sophomore. Coach writes us another letter. It was like thanking us for taking the feedback. And he's like, I don't know what you guys did, but he's a totally different player. He's a great team player. He's a good leader. He listens. and it was like that's what he needed and parents need to realize also sometimes you gotta not advocate for your kid when they need to learn a lesson like this because I it's as somebody who coached youth sports I was a little league coach for two years parents are the worst I had this I still remember this couple she was a doctor and he was a private equity guy in San Diego they show up to the game always late and then first thing they start laying in on me why isn't my kid playing in the infield?

47:13Why is he in the outfield? And I'm just like, okay, if you guys were here for the first three innings, your kid was in shortstop. He's one of the best players on the team. But the parents are the worst. So anyway, I just remind, yeah, I remind parents in the book, you know, let your kids, you know, take the consequences for their actions. And you see it in that crazy documentary about Charlie Sheen. He's saying this as like a 60-year-old man now today. He's like, I wish my parents, my professional peers had have held me accountable for my actions. He's like, I got away with everything because I was Charlie Sheen.

47:56I was the cool guy. The cops would let me go. After him pranking the other actor, they were on a flight to San Francisco and got the PA system and said the plane was going to crash. to all the passengers. But he's like, we landed, the cops were there, they found out it was Charlie Sheen and Nick Cage, and they just let us go. He's like, I never had any consequences for my bad behavior. And he's like, I wish somebody had held me accountable. Maybe I wouldn't have had wasted the first 55 years of my life.

48:23James Altucher:You know, this is such good advice, not only for parents and kids, but just in life. If somebody, if anybody in your environment does bad behavior, that's a broad umbrella, but they need to have consequences. Or if you're misinterpreting it, then they'll show you your consequences. Like, this all needs to be, to happen. You can't let people walk all over you, for instance. And allowing this advice applies really to adults and, you know, taking responsibility and asking the why when there is bad behavior. But the other thing I wanted to ask is, like, and this is for adults and kids, but also for parents helping kids, you have a chapter on finding your purpose.

49:04James Altucher:How do you help kids? It's such a hard thing for adults, but even for kids. How do you help kids find a purpose or a passion? My philosophy with that was, how do I expose them to as many different things as possible? Experiences, culture, which was travel. I made sure they were very well-traveled as kids. And thankfully, their mom was a big supporter of that. she'd let me take him. My oldest was in Africa when he was 12. My mom took him on a trip there. So to see poverty up close and different cultures I think is super important. But I remember I would put him in these multidisciplinary camps when I would take him for the summer.

49:49It was a camp in San Diego where they did drama, art, they did sailing, all these different things. And I remember that was the summer. my daughter was maybe seven or eight years old and the art teacher came up to me when I picked them up at camp and she's like hey your daughter has a talent she's like I've been teaching art for years like she's got something and you should support that and so I had a conversation with her I was like hey would you want to take private classes I heard you you got this compliment from the teacher and she's like yeah dad that would be amazing so you know anytime I found something that kind of like lit up their eyes, I'm like, okay, I'm going to support this.

50:31And, you know, with my oldest, it was computers and chess. You know, I taught him the basics of chess. And then when he lived with me in his first semester in college because of COVID, he taught me chess. He was like, yeah, dad, actually let me teach you some openings. It's funny, the parent becomes a student. That must be when I was giving him lessons, like four years ago. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. But yeah, the main thing is to expose them to as many different things as you can. And when you see what gets them excited is lean in and support that. And sometimes you may not be happy with it. I was on a parent panel the other day and a parent asked, he's like, my son is turning 17.

51:16He really wants to go in the military. And his mom and I keep trying to talk him out of it. And he says he doesn't feel supported. How do I deal with this? I was like, well, first, of course he doesn't feel supported because you're not supporting him. I was like, regardless of whether you think it's a good idea or not, he has latched on to this mission of joining the military. He has clearly something that he's really excited about, and you guys are trying to talk him out of it. It's one thing to kind of facilitate a conversation. This is especially, I think, appropriate to parents with kids in high school.

51:55Because your kids, especially as like sophomore or junior, they realize they're adults. And they're realizing they're getting to 18 and can write their own notes to get out of class. They're becoming adults and you need to start treating them as adults as a parent, not grasping onto this dictator-like scenario when they were younger where you could pretty much, whatever you said as parents goes. No, they're going to be pushing for their own independence. And parents need to come to grips with that and shift their parenting style to more of an advisory role. That's why I'm so grateful to have people like you in my kids' lives and Kamal and my other friends.

52:37And they say, hey, can you... I know that my oldest, because I don't have the same background in computer science as he does, isn't going to listen to me about this thing. Even though fundamentally I think I'm right. I'm like, no, can you talk to James about this? Or Rusty, one of his mentors who built a billion-dollar software company called MarketScan, which evaluates trade-in value on automobiles. Like bootstrapped it to, you know, billion-dollar exit. I was like, go ask Rusty what he thinks. Because I know they're going to have a conversation and he's going to take it differently as if it's his dad, right?

53:15So I think that's, as the kids get older, You've got to realize you're more an advisor and you need to kind of help them. And I think getting them mentors is huge or surrounding them with a network that can help them figure things out is huge. But that was my philosophy. And the one thing I did have a conversation with them as they were transitioning out of high school was, look, purpose is going to change. Like I wanted to be an astronaut. Then it was a fighter pilot. Then it was a SEAL. Then I was a SEAL and I left and I'm like, okay, who the hell am I now? Your purpose will change throughout your life and that's okay.

53:52I think even more so these days with the technology changing so fast. But purpose is an important one. And I told this parent who asked me that question, I was like, you need to support him. I was like, I don't care if you and your wife don't think it's a good idea. That's what he wants. Just be supportive. And then he'll be more open to your feedback, knowing that you support him. and then maybe he'll figure it out on his own that he doesn't want to do this, or he'll listen to you now that you've backed off.

54:21James Altucher:You know, it's a really good point. I think there's two really great insights here. One is people find their passion when they're exposed to lots of things. Like, that's just the reality. The other thing is they're going to change passions and purposes a lot. Like, I've had like 10 different careers since I graduated college. So, you know, and I know you have also. So it's really important to realize that. And being supportive doesn't necessarily mean they're in favor of it, but just that they're there to talk to them about it and to receive. Yeah. No, exactly. And it was like the noticeable shift in mood when I supported Tyler, when he found out his mom and I weren't going to just drop the hammer on him for being suspended.

55:09We actually took his side, listened to him, and supported him. and he was, I could see the weight drop from the shoulders. Like he was a different kid. And it was like a huge moment. And that's when I'm like, wow, we're supporting him. And he recognizes that. It's such a powerful thing. That's why I was, when I listened to his dad trying, you know, he's just trying everything he could to talk his kid out of the military. I was like, yeah, but you're not. And he says, we're not supporting him. I was like, well, no shit, you're not. Because you're not, you know. I was like, you don't have to be happy about it.

55:42I'm not happy with a lot of decisions my kids make, but I'm like, and I can have, and they respect me enough now as adults. I have this adult kind of relationship with them, but they know I always got their back and I always support them. I may not be happy with it, but I'm not going to scream and throw a tantrum. I feel like when I was even doing press for the book, I did that Wall Street Journal article and I offered up my kids. My kids were actually in the same Airbnb on a ski trip, and Pamela, who interviewed me through Wall Street Journal, was a mom. Because I just know, like, you've met my oldest, Jackson, and the kids just speak for themselves, right?

56:22So recently, I hosted my daughter and her friend. She's in grad school. Both of them were roommates in undergrad and went on to the Royal College of Art to do their master's. And she's like, Dad, we want to come, you know, enjoy our Lisbon time. And I talk about this in the end of the book about the forever family, like creating an environment and traditions to keep your kids kind of coming back when they're adults, which is a very fulfilling thing, I can tell you as a parent with older kids. So I hosted them and I always go out of my way when she comes, you know, I'm like mani pedis, you know, nice dinners, whatever it is.

57:03I bought her and her friend and I had bought them diptyque candles and like little welcome packages. And we had an amazing two weeks together. And then I went into the guest room and I was kind of like cleaning up a little bit. And I found this letter she had left on the bed and she wrote me as a back of a postcard. But I'll read it because this is like, to me, mission accomplished as a parent. And this is, I wish and hope other parents can have this relationship with their grown kids. Because my daughter is now 22. She's getting ready to get her master's in June and start her career path. But she wrote me this note, and I'll read it for the audience.

57:45It says, dad, in parentheses, says friend, master matcha maker. Because I was making a matcha every morning, like hand crushing strawberries to make a little strawberry matcha. she's a dad friend master matcha maker yoga buddy etc etc you've created a home in lisbon and how lucky am i that you've been making homes and places all around the world my whole life jealous you get to live out the new york experience soon you always go above and beyond to support me the older i get the more i see and appreciate it thank you for helping me live out my dreams in london i'm so happy and passionate about what i do and study and i owe the privilege to you thank you for always welcoming my friends and treating them like family you've taught me to find good people love you so much and thanks for letting us hang you're the coolest love madison but that's great what she wrote me recently before i came on the new york trip but to me i'm like i've read that letter probably 50 times but that's like mission accomplished right The best I want as a father is just for my kids to feel supported and for them to be living their own life, not the life that their mom and I wish for them.

59:04No, live the life that they want to live and make them feel supported. And when I read a letter like that, I'm like, okay, I feel good about being a dad, even though I made plenty of mistakes.

59:17James Altucher:Well, you know, again, I've been a dad, a stepdad, Of course, we've all been kids. But even as an adult, the advice in your book is so valuable because these lessons can be learned anytime. You don't have to be 10 years old. You could be 50 years old and still learn a lot of these lessons. And it's valuable on every side of the equation. And so I think this was a really strong book. You have such a variety of experiences. You're really a wise person. And I value our friendship and getting to know you. And again, reading this book, put into perspective a lot of stuff I'm going through as a parent, even right now, and my kids are mostly older.

59:55James Altucher:So I can't recommend it highly enough. Puddle Jumpers, Powerful Mental Techniques from Navy SEAL Performance Coach and Father of Three. Of course, that person is Brandon Webb. Just really impressed with the book. It's a lot of stuff to think about, and you've been given a lot of great context in this podcast above and beyond the book. So I really appreciate it. And thanks once again, Brandon, for coming on the show. Yeah, no, thanks for having me. And I also appreciate the friendship and the chess coaching. Yeah, always happy to do that. I know I've been busy lately, but we'll get back to that.

1:00:27Yeah, let's do it.

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