So Good They Call You a Fake | Joshua Lisec's Secrets to Creating Unbelievable Results

24:48And it's like, well, can you just give me a pill? Yeah, here's a prescription I can offer you. So right now, there is this really big exciting thing about a drug, I believe it's called semaglutide. I'm probably pronouncing it wrong. But it's a weight loss pill. Weight loss pill. Give me that weight loss pill. And so we're now seeing a lot of doctors are prescribing a weight loss pill because it's all about subscriptions. And of course, this is a perfect product market fit because people need to stand up long-term because if they go off it, it is said, not only will their symptoms get back to where they were, but they will significantly worsen.

25:23That's a perfect product market fit. It's a subscription product. And it's not malicious intent. Dr. Vady points out, physicians have five, 10 minutes, maybe tops, to try to convey all of this information to a patient before the next one comes along. So the incentive structure is not great for the doctors or for the patients. And this is why Dr. Vade has opened up a telehealth clinic so that he can have extended hour, two hour long conversations with people. And he would go over their blood work and tell them what every single number means and what it's likely going to lead to. Two hours with someone.

26:00You can get that inside of the system. And it's fantastic what he's able to offer. And that's the direction that he wants people to go. But before anyone is going to be willing to spend two hours with a doctor, pay out of pocket for advice like this, go over their blood work and not go through the system. There's a lot that they need to understand about what's going on in their body, what specific food does to them. And so that's why the beliefs in his case all have to come first. And they're really part of the system. And in hypnosis, it's called the chain of beliefs where they're like dominoes.

26:32If you believe this, then the next thing that you can believe is this. After that, the next thing that's believable for you is this. You just line them all up, knock them all down, all the way to the end result of now their behaviors have changed. Is that what a hypnotist does? Like what does a hypnotist do? That's what a hypnotist does. So as far as I know, I'm the only certified professional ghostwriter and certified hypnotist in the world. And it boggles my mind because they're one and the same. My opinion is that books are long-form hypnosis scripts because you're changing beliefs to drive new behaviors, which is what a hypnosis session, frankly, is.

27:07In a hypnosis session, you need to have rapport. The person needs to trust you, that they understand, you get me. And often, that means at the very outset of the chapter of the book, the first chapter of the book, the very opening of the session, the hypnotist or the author, but I repeat myself, must deliver what's called a yes set, which is a series of facts or statements or questions that a hypnotist author knows are true for the reader. What's an example of that? Like let's say I'm giving a talk about something. What would be three yes statements I can use? So one technique I've used a lot is opening with three questions.

27:49Have you ever, and then you ask a question that you know the answer to that is yes for the reader. Well, what about - I'm talking about entrepreneurship. Like have you ever wanted to start your own business? Have you ever wanted to have financial freedom. Have you ever wanted to be recognized for helping millions of people with something you made? Oh, that's a perfect example of a yes set. And the broader, the better. So that way you could get more people going, oh yeah. So the rule of three, yes, that's perfect. That's perfect. And then what's next for a hypnotist? Yes. So once you've got that, that would be like the hook, the pull them in a little bit.

28:25Okay. I'm paying attention now. This is relevant for me. I'm tuned in. Because if it's not relevant, if not tuned in, then the suggestions aren't going to take and their mind's going to be wandering and stressed out about something else. So what I do, and I don't think I say this at the book, but what I do is I take the structure of a hypnosis session and I point out that this is a structure that your opening chapter of your book needs to follow, where you've got the hook that pulls them in and says, okay, I'm engaged now. And then from there, you need to point out what it is that they're struggling with that you are going to help them resolve.

28:56Basically, what's in for me is it helping you with this issue. And that's where you would talk about the problem. So with your example, James, of have you ever, do you want to, wouldn't it be neat if like, oh yeah, of course. And then you would just go to, but, and then you would lay out what the problem is. But you have a job that takes 90 hours a week. So you feel you don't have time, but you're worried about the mortgage and the bills and so on, stuff like that. Exactly. Exactly. And you lay out, okay, well, yeah, that's true for me as well. Right. So the idea is to keep as many people as possible going, oh yeah, that's exactly what's happening for me.

29:30It's relevant. And by the way, this is also perfect for sales pages, the same structure. And realize that the most effective persuaders have the same templates for everything. So a hypnosis session, the opening chapter of a book, and a sales page, it is all the same structure. Or it could be, or it ought to be, rather, because they're all buying something. They're buying a new belief and new behaviors, or they're buying reading the rest of the book, or they're buying the product itself to use and get value from it. So after you lay out the problem, so people realize, oh, that's why, okay, this person's going to help me with this.

30:02You need to agitate. You need to agitate. Now, problem agitation solution is a tried and true copywriting formula, but part of this larger structure, you understand why it works and what else has to be part of it. So after you've laid out the problem, agitate. Make people feel it. Let them, in a multisensory way, see it, hear it, touch it, taste it, smell it even? Why, in what ways is this the problem? Multisensory persuasion. So you lay out, oh, you got 90 hours. Okay. That's, you know, 90 hours a week. That's really hard. Okay. That's a problem. But how do they know it's a problem? This is where you can begin to like draw on, on memories and allow people to assign things that they've actually done, seen, said, and heard and felt to what you're talking about right here.

30:50So they go, oh, he's reading my mind. He knows. He knows. So you could say, maybe your spouse said this to you, or you heard your kids say this, or when your boss was talking, you felt this. And you can call up those actual sensory experiences because the senses are based in the subconscious mind. That's where they're rooted. So once you can just reach into someone's mind by tapping into sensory memories, you've got them. This is an advanced technique, but it works so well, once you get to this point, pulling out people's memories. And memories, of course, are in the subconscious. How do you know what the memories are?

31:29You're just saying that most people have similar ways of encountering a problem. Yes. And you want to be vague. And a good example of vague, I'm going to borrow from novelists. The best novelists give hardly any information at all about the setting, about the characters. They just drop a couple of adjectives to describe the look and the feel of the place, they know that you give people just enough to imagine their own character and their own heads. They have ownership of that character. They see what that character looks like, as opposed to overly descriptive descriptions that amateur first-time novelists and fiction writers tend to go into, where they will describe how many strands of hair are on the girl's face and exactly the look and shape of her chin and her nose was this long.

32:21And she said this high, her shoulders this wide. She was carrying a bag that was this color. And all this detail, we don't need any of that. That's anti-persuasive. What you want are, she looked as if she was about to and then give a description of, oh, okay, I've seen that before. I know what she looks like now. Maybe a little bit of color, just enough for people to imagine and kind of create their own character. This, by the way, is why people prefer most often. they prefer the novel to the movie because they already had the character created in their head because the novelist gave just enough information for them to make the character their own.

32:52And then when they see someone else's version of it, that's not what that character looks like. That's not how they behave because the novelist gave just enough information. It's kind of like those activities for kids where it's numbered lines and you have to take your pencil and you have to draw from one to the next and you fill in the picture. It's kind of like that. You allow the person's brain to fill in the picture. So when you're agitating about the problem with your audience, with your readers, with your patient, with your customers reading your sales page, what we want to do is to give multisensory call-outs, but not be overly specific.

33:29Your boss, who is this, who is just like this, he sounded like this, oh, and it was a he, your boss said this to you, these exact words, you're sitting in your cubicle, and you're sitting at your computer, you have two Macs, like, oh, that's way too descriptive. That's like an amateur novelist. So don't write like an amateur novelist. Write like a pro. And really the point of this is not, I mean, it almost sounds like we're evil talking about this, like how to manipulate people into doing what we want. But the point is like, even take Dr. Ovedia, for instance. He really wants people to be healthy, but he's got to go through four or five decades of brainwashing.

34:02Like, so he might, in this case, using him as an example, he might say something like, everybody around you has been eating Doritos since you were a kid. Of course, you're going to join in or whatever he says. He's going to kind of call on their, blame their environment and maybe the way they grew up or whatever on their bad health situation, which probably many people can relate to. Yes. The most persuasive, I say this elsewhere, I point out that the most persuasive statements are absolute truths that people know are true. And so it is difficult to manipulate most people most of the time effectively.

34:39And politicians know this, This is why they get hyper-niched down with their campaigns. They try to manipulate a particular niche or a sub-niche with manipulative messaging. They try to capture different ones because it's difficult to unethically persuade everyone with falsehoods because enough people realize, wait a second, this person's pulling my leg here. But when you have the best interest in mind, you can tell the truth. And when anyone doesn't resonate with it, you don't mind. You don't have to sell everyone. You don't have to persuade everyone. You're just looking for the people who resonate.

35:10There'll be people who are like, what are you talking about? I wear a continuous glucose monitor. I don't eat any carbohydrates at all beyond 50 grams a day. And I walk 25 ,000 steps a day. Doritos, what are you talking about? So that person's not in his market. And that's okay. So he doesn't need that person to buy his product. Okay, what's next? So after the agitation, this is where you introduce a solution. This is the, and I can take it all away. And there's a better way. And I found the way. And that was me. And then that's what Dr. Avedia does. So he transitioned in the opening chapter of his book from the agitation to the introduction of the solution, where it's his story is often the story of his patients.

35:50So he knows in mind who exactly he wants reading this book. And so when you know exactly who the reader, who you want them to be, you can speak directly to them and to nobody else. So we don't want to write a book that's for everyone. We want to key in on this one type of person. More than that, we'll enjoy it, of course. But the key is one type of person. In that case, Dr. Avedia's primary market is like a 45 to 50-year-old male who is dealing with their parents' heart issues. They've ate like their parents did. And now dad's had a heart attack and mom's on three different blood pressure medications and isn't getting around anymore.

36:32And they both got arthritis. And it seems like it might be diet-related from what they're hearing about. oh no, maybe we shouldn't be eating the way that we've been eating. Oh, and now it's my turn. Oh no. And their doctor recently said, oh, it looks like you're elevated. There might be a problem here. You might want to check on that. I'll see you in a year. Get your statins. I'll see you in a year. Just do whatever. Here's some statins. I'll see you in a year. And then, okay, something is wrong here. So within what Dr. Vita does, we introduce this solution. It's in the midst of the agitation.

36:58Here's how bad it can feel. Here's how it felt for me. I was the fat doctor. I was morbidly obese. I was in worse shape than many of the patients I was operating on, is how Dr. Vedia's story go. But what I learned was, and introduced a solution now. So there's that rapport. It's like, he's one of us. He's one of us. Anytime you could do that, that he's one of us or he's one of us, that's always effective. Introducing the solution, this is where a lot of authors I find go wrong, is they don't know what their exact solution is. It's like, well, the book is kind of like a bunch of different things.

37:31You could try this and you should do this. It's not like one coherent solution, one complete system, one full framework, one end-to-end tutorial, one step-by-step process to get to that particular outcome. It was difficult writing those types of books for people who didn't have a system because it was complete chaos. They would just say, well, it's all mindset over and over and over, chapter after chapter. You just got to try hard. You just got to want it bad enough. It's all mindset. Growth mindset. It's mindset after one chapter after the next. It doesn't get people anywhere. So what we recognize is before we wrote any of this, we worked on Dr.

38:06Avedia's metabolic health system. And this is the same process. What is that system for a genius? And that's why I don't talk about how to write a book until the eighth chapter in this book, because it's all the foundational beliefs I want you to believe before you adopt the new behaviors to adopt as part of becoming so good they call you a fake.

38:41I thought it was fascinating because it's true. Like probably Dr. Oveadia didn't verbalize his system before, but once he had one, this is what I call the spoken wheel approach. Like once you have that core of the wheel, you have spokes. You can have the book, the course, the video, the coaching business, the consulting business, the product, whatever. So what you essentially do is you create the wheels for these people who are geniuses at what they do. Dr. Avedia is one example. There was another example of a guy who's like the cheapest divorce lawyer around. Great example. There was one woman, I forget what exactly she was doing.

39:13But what were some of the other examples in the book? Oh, yeah. We talk about internet entrepreneurs and digital marketers and marketing agencies and business consultants and management consultants. No, but what were some of the other examples like Dr. Avedia? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So right after Dr. Ovedia is Eric Anderton, who is a construction industry executive coach, leadership training consultant. He's doing very well for himself in that space, despite the fact that he's never been on a construction site in his life. He actually is a historian, if you can believe that. So wait a second. How do you become a construction executive coach without ever having worked on a job site before?

39:52That's his situation. And yet he's got this complete system that is so effective. Not only is it a book, but what's happening is CEOs of these companies are flying him out and he's giving multiple day presentations on the book, teaching it to his staff and making sure that they get it and that they can go carry that into their day-to-day labor. He's a fantastic example. Why did he want to be a construction executive coach if he's never been on a construction site? Because it's the construction industry that builds the world. from a literal perspective. And so often the sorts of stories that resonated with him as a history teacher, as a professional historian, were people who were building the world in one way or another.

40:37And so it's a hop, skip, and a jump to go from reading about an ancient king to whom the ancient king's architect was and building the vision of the king. And there is that natural transition from history to construction that might not be obvious until you learn about the sorts of stories that a historian might be learning about. What was the insight that he got from history that he was able to systematize to the modern day? It's that times change and people don't. And that the downfall of an empire is the same as the downfall of a construction company. Really any company, but it's construction, particularly because of the resonance between the visionary and the one who builds the vision, and often literally.

41:17And it's construction executives who, they're an interesting breed because they see what's possible. And there's so many shenanigans they have to put up with to go from, we see what this place could look like to, okay, well, there's actually the zoning issues. And then there's a local government and there's a state government. What about federal government? What about, and it's just all of these things that have to get jumped through in order to produce the end result. And often the sorts of problems that plague that type of company, they are not practical business problems. They are leadership problems.

41:57It's mismanagement. It's all the sorts of things that Eric knows from studying history, our problems, and how to solve them. It's like the vizier giving counsel to the leader, and it's bad advice. And how do you deal with that situation in a real world, modern day construction, sort of a scenario? It just maps. And that's what's so cool about the system approach is when you understand that you can be in a completely different industry, but map your expertise onto another industry, you can become the authority in that niche just by building a system that's repeatable, produces predictable results.

42:35Now, a lot of people probably haven't heard of Dr. Philip Avedia or Eric Anderton. And I try to shy away from my celebrity clients in the book because those are interesting to me and they're not useful to most people. I don't want to be a tabloid. What's most interesting is taking people that no one's ever heard of and they've become the authority in their niche. How in the world does that happen? That's what's interesting. Yeah, and like I'm looking at Dr. Avedia's Twitter account right now. He's got, you said he had 1 ,500 followers when you started working with him. He's got 56 ,000 followers right now.

43:05That's right. And one of the things that he does with his book is he repurposes content from the book as tweets and as threads and as video scripts. You know, what I'm interested in also is you have this chapter in the book on basically how to be a good coach. You know, so you talk about writing, you talk about ghostwriting, you talk about courses. But I am curious, like when it comes to, what's the difference between a good coach and a bad coach? Yes, so this is the information environment from which I wrote that chapter is having done something something that looks like coaching myself. I'm not gonna call it exactly coaching, but it's something like a coaching.

43:41It's like a coaching style offer. But also, so many coaches over the years have come to me to write their books, be it health, wealth, wellness, business, management, entrepreneurship, whatever the case may be. And I've seen the best and I've seen the worst. And what the worst do, now, this isn't in terms of results. Often, the most financially successful coaches are the worst actual coaches that I found. They've optimized for revenue over results. So they're the ones who have the funnels dialed in. And they're on all the platforms. And they're doing the major JV deals with everybody. It's the ones who are spectacular at what they do, charging like 50 bucks an hour, minimum two hours.

44:21Oh, and by the way, if you book four hours, it's half price. It's sort of like, what are you doing? What are you doing? Even though they can create a miracle, what looks like a miracle, but they're just using their expertise to do this. And to answer your question, good coach versus a bad coach, a bad coach is all hype. You've got to be motivated. You've just got to want it bad enough. You've just got to try. Mindset, mindset, mindset. I can't want this more than you do. And there's an opening story of an actual coach that said those words to me. And that mindset is quite common in coaching. And it's like, well, you're not paying for results.

44:56You're paying for my time is, let's say, a reframe that I hear often in the coaching space from the authors that I talk to who are coaches or coaches who are aspiring authors and why they want to do it different. And that's often why they come to me, Joshua, I'm an expert. Nobody gets results like I can, but nobody knows who I am. It's the schmucks and the actual fakes who are at the top of the industry, who are giving terrible advice to people. So often, ghostwriting clients of mine who are coaches, their clients are the failures of the famous coaches who washed up and couldn't make those systems work and then come to my clients and instantly checks out for them and get the results.

45:34A good coach will not let you fail. A good coach makes failure almost impossible for you. An example I give is one of my golf coaches that I had who used elaborate, kind of ridiculous looking, perhaps Groucho Marx style products golf, but in the golf industry, map that metaphor onto golf, you could not hit a slice. It is not possible to hit a slice with this apparatus that he would strap up and set up using products he probably paid less than 50 bucks for at Walmart or at the Home Depot, setting these up. It's not possible to hit a slice. It was not possible for me to do it wrong. That's good coaching.

46:16It's not possible to do it wrong. And map that onto high performance coaching or to business coaching or to entrepreneurship or to health or to wealth. And you realize that it's not about wanting it bad enough or using your willpower, being motivated. I can't want this more than you do, Joshua, the typical rah-rah coach. It is walking with the person to set up particular systems and safeguards and unbreakable rules around the issue they want to work on so it's not possible for them to do it wrong. And then the coach is there to make sure that they keep that system, that they keep that rule in place, in present, in as real time as possible, rather than coaching calls, which are an annoyance, at least in the sphere that I hang out on Twitter.

47:04Coaches are, let's say, on the way out because it is known that a coach is somebody you pay to tell you that you don't want it bad enough, and then they'll collect their money and they meet with you once a week, and then I'm available via the phone and not actually getting results. And it's more like, well, I'm paying somebody for something, So I guess I feel like I'm making progress. It's really a cope is what it is by and large. So like if someone wants to be a coach, what's the first thing they can take out of this to basically become a better coach? Let's just start with the end in mind. How does your student know that your coaching worked?

47:40That's the first thing. And that's the opening question, the binary, the black and white. How do they know it worked? Like, well, they either achieved their goal or they didn't. Now, this is an alignment problem with incentives. coaches are incentivized to not get results because coaches get paid for the coaching right like therapy yes so the idea is you need the person to suck as long as possible otherwise you don't get paid so that's the first thing is you need to eliminate okay the longer people work with me the more money i get paid oh so therefore i shouldn't make sure my services don't work but make people feel good about the motivation they get but then dies immediately after the session.

48:18And then that's why I say that coaches who make the most money are doing that because they understand that if you just keep people hanging on, stringing them along long enough, you can drain them. They become a fantastic solution product. So start with a completely different approach, which is I am a coach to get results. This is why I like hypnotists because it's after one, two or three sessions, the problem is resolved. It's done. They don't say the person never needed the expensive therapy for years and years because the issue is resolved. But start with the end in mind. How do they know it worked?

48:46And then you work backwards step by step with no step skipped. And now you imagine that somebody's going to be following this process. Where are they going to screw it up? Where are they going to screw up their process? And then what does it look like to prevent them from screwing themselves up? What is that process? So with the golf example, a step-by-step process from that perspective is the golf swing. And the outcome is, did the ball go as far as it should have and the direction it should have if this person was any good. So it was either 150 yards to the right in the woods or it was right down the center and was a beautiful shot.

49:24So there's not really any, well, maybe it worked, maybe it didn't. No, we either see that it did or it didn't. So from his perspective, every movement that I make on the backswing and on the downswing, even the setup, there's the setup, there's the backswing, there's the top, and then there's the downswing and there's the follow through. every stage of the way, I can screw something up as the person being coached. I can screw everything up. Now, a coach who optimizes for revenue is only going to try to fix one little thing at a time. Oh, you did that. Next week, we'll work on this other thing.

50:00And then it's like six months later, I'm not slicing the ball as far, but I paid a lot of money to not slice the ball as far versus what this coach did, which is set up these sophisticated apparatuses around me as I'm doing the golf swing. So I have to take the club up to a certain spot, which is the correct spot. And I have to swing a certain way and I have to follow through a certain way. It's not possible to screw it up. Those boundaries, those restrictions are what were so helpful. And then when you had to go on a real golf course, was there like muscle memory kicked in so that, you know, it kept you in line, even though you didn't have the apparatus around you?

50:40Yes. He gave me specific drills to do drills. I could do over and over and over. And again, it looked kind of ridiculous. Like what is he, what is he doing over there? We need to call somebody, you know, with those drills, but they, but they work. They bring what that was from the coaching experience into the real world. So think about if you, the coach are not there with the person they're executing themselves, what could be drilled into them to help make it second nature, to help the new way feel natural and the old way, that was the old habit, feel unnatural and even plain wrong? What can you do to make perfect execution or at least superior execution to what they were previously doing like clockwork without them having to think about it, without them having to remember everything and pretend that you're there?

51:27It's a completely different way to coach because it's not really about asking questions like a lot of coaching is thought to be or digging deep or any of that sort of stuff. It's like, okay, well, what do you want? All right, I'm going to not let you not get there. And that's my job as the coach, to not let you not get to where you want to go. That's my job. And so this is all great. So basically, So Good They Call You a Fake by Josh Lisek, command attention, monetize your talent stack, and become the uncontested authority in your niche. It's really good advice because there's so many, I always complain about this in like the self-help space.

52:06Like there's so many BS self-help books, for instance, that don't really move the needle on what it is you want to accomplish in life. And that could be applied to anything, like whether it's health or, um, you know, any of the examples from your clients, golf, uh, you have the examples from the divorce lawyer, from the construction coach. Uh, basically what you do is you step-by-step tell people how to think about their core skills, the things that their wheel, the core of what they're good at, how to systematize what they're good at. And you teach people how to do that in this book and then how to monetize it by looking at all the different spokes, whether it's book, course, coaching business, consulting business, speaking business, and so on.

52:53And I really love the title, so good they call you a fake because so many times I, like in the past 10, 15, 20 years, I would write something and the first comments I would get were like, oh, this must be fake or, or this guy's just lying. He writes fiction. Like this can't possibly be true. And I would be, I was so stupid. I'd be arguing with them. Like, no, it's really true. Like I should have just let them babble on. Like, why did I even engage them? But better yet, share it. yeah exactly like like you did like you did that was a great screenshot it draws you into the book that was a great screenshot of that tweet of somebody calling you a fraud did you respond to that guy at all or no i didn't respond directly but i quote tweeted it and i said this is a teachable moment your results must appear so ridiculous that strangers online are calling you a fake yeah right like the idea that a stranger would feel the need by the way and he was anonymous also.

53:49So an anonymous stranger would feel the need to take time out of their life and day to basically call you a fake when they're using the anonymous name, like they're one who's already fake. It's astonishing really. And it's free marketing. It's free marketing. Right. And your point is, is that, Hey, if you're that good, you should do this, which is organize your knowledge and skillsets so that, you know, you have your, your system. And then these are the step-by-step ways to monetize it. Again, I wish I had had this book 10 years ago. It would have been very valuable to me, and I hope it'll be valuable to the listeners.

54:26By the way, I also want to mention your newsletter that you send out on a daily basis or almost a daily basis is great. I love the stuff you talk about, like how AI impacts marketing agencies, just all your subjects. Like you talk about writing books, you talk about book covers. You have one letter, which I haven't read yet, so maybe you can tell me about it right now. Yes, I work with Scott Adams. I didn't know that until I saw that. So what's the story with Scott Adams? Oh, yes. Yeah, that's tucked into the book somewhere. But some people will recognize, monetize your talent stack from the subtitle.

55:02Talent stack is Scott Adams' term. We've been friends for maybe five years now. And I asked him, hey, can I use that? because there's not really a better term than talent stack for that. And he said, yeah, that's great. But I'm working with him on Reframe Your Brain, his new book. That's a lot of fun. He's been saying good things about me for years. That's good. That's been great. He's so much fun, so easy to work with. And we'll be doing some other stuff together as well in addition to this book. But he's great. And what projects are you working on right now for you in general? Obviously, you're launching this book, so you're going to be marketing this book for a while.

55:37What's next? Yes. So I've been testing with my own book launch things that are a little risky that I wouldn't necessarily recommend other people do. So I haven't advised other clients to do this yet. So I'm being a guinea pig myself. And one of the things I'm going to guinea pig is in a very expensive book club. A very expensive book club. Well, more expensive than a book club is usually perceived as, which is free. But something like$1 ,000 to take six weeks to read the book. and I will advise you to implement everything through chapter seven to build your genius system. That's so good. You can monetize it.

56:13You can prioritize it in anything and you can become so good. They call you a fake thousand bucks. I'll coach you through that. And we'll have a bunch of different people in it. I don't know if it's going to work. If you're going to be advising everybody, how much can you scale that? It's not quite scalable. The first iteration of something is never scalable. By the way, that is good business advice. I like that. Yes. But that's going to be a test because if it works, I'm going to advise several of my clients to do that going forwards. Well, it's interesting because Scribe Media just recently shut down.

56:44And we've had people from Scribe Media on here quite a bit, including Tucker Max, the founder, and Javon McCormick, who was the CEO until the shutdown. but it seems like there's an open space now in the market of helping experts get their books published. Yes, yes. And I enjoy working with people as a ghostwriter and we also do what's called ghost publishing. And that's where we like, like I did this for Dr. Ovedia. What I'm holding in my hand right now is the dust jacketed hardcover, right? We didn't just do his book. We did his book and also the audio book and the launch of everything and getting podcasts booked and all that fun stuff for Dr.

57:23Ovedia. And I call that ghost publishing because it's kind of like ghost writing where someone does all the work for you, not just with the writing, but with the publishing as well. But we've launched something new that is scalable that we know of. It's a cohort, a done with you version of the Joshua Lysick experience called Authority Accelerator. And of course we have author in the word authority is really set apart there. And the idea is to produce an authority book in five months, but the roles are reversed. I'm not writing it. The members of the cohort are, and I am the person who's not letting them not do it right.

58:03So I'm taking my own advice for the coaching here. So that means I tell them, here's your book idea. Here's a title and subtitle. Here's your table of contents. Here's how you're going to open chapter one. So I tell them, And that aspect of it is more scalable. And so it's my brain in a coaching done with you, sort of a cohort experience. And we still produce the book at the end with the ghost publishing aspect. So it is an application only thing because there's some people who, they don't have a talent stack. They don't have the makings of a system to document yet. They're just not a good fit for it because then that makes my job too hard.

58:37We need actual experts to turn into authorities. If you're not an expert, it's not for beginners. like I like to say. Well, this is so great. I like that you're applying your own techniques to yourself and to help others. And again, the book is so good. They call you a fake. Great insights and great stories in the book. And of course, great writing. Josh Lisek has written 78 books. You're a great ghostwriter and you've written your own books. Where can people find you and your newsletter also? Yeah, best place is LisekGhostwriting.com or all of my shenanigans are over on Twitter, at Josh Lesick.

59:16And of course, So Good They Call You a Fake, available on Amazon. Thanks so much, Josh. Once again, thanks for joining us on the podcast. I'm glad you came on. Thank you. Thank you.

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