The Dual Sides of Victory | NFL Star Malcolm Jenkins

25:05So your working memory, your reaction time, all of these things, they can want to evaluate. So they know if you're good under pressure. They know if you have a good working memory. They know all of these things about just how your brain functions, and then they can build on them. I think that is really the next wave of like - What's the name of the company? Nestry. They are based out of Orlando, Florida. And they do some phenomenal stuff. Yeah. It definitely blows your mind when you start to think about it. Because sports has always been neck down training. And then all of a sudden now you have this innovative company who is only focused on the neck up.

25:48And it's so wide open that I think the first teams and athletes to adopt that in a serious way are going to see some tremendous results. Is it easy to be – oh, I see they work with a lot of NFL people. Is it easy to be a customer? Like, can I be a customer? Yeah, yeah. You go down this – they have an app that you can do, like daily usage, with mindset, content framing things, and little brain games you can play. But the real experience is when you go down to their campus and you put on the cap that has all of the pods that scan your brain, and they can see all of your brain activity, if your brain is working too hard, if it's underperforming, and all of these things that we usually think are just personality traits are usually functionalities of our brain, and they can train you to change the function of your brain.

26:40And they've done it with performance, but they've also done it from a recovery standpoint where players who've had really bad brain injuries, concussions, things like that, have come to them and seen tremendous results when they talk like recovering from those injuries and getting back to kind of their baseline and then even performing from there. So interesting. What other kind of businesses are you invested in? Yeah, I am mainly in tech and consumer goods. Franchising is the main part of my portfolio. But my newest, you know, kind of craze in business is human performance. As an athlete, it's something that I know because I've done it.

27:24I've been in programs where we've used all of these technologies to obviously enhance our physical performance. But I think it's to a point now as a society where we are losing a little bit of faith in our health care system. And we're looking for, you know, more power on our own to take our health into our own hands. So we're looking at more people working out, more people, you know, taking diets and things like that and taking their health into their own hands. I think companies like that who can assist people with wellness, with weight training, diet, things like that are really kind of the next wave of really human performance.

28:02You know, it's interesting. It's a weird area to invest in. Like if I think about it, I can't think of any company that, you know, one could invest in the human performance area where it was like a home run. It became like the Google of human performance. You know, they sort of grow slowly. It's based on sales and word of mouth. And you don't really see them get sold or IPO for like big amounts. So like what were your considerations when you were looking at Nestri, for instance? Yeah. So one of the things we have to look at when it comes to like change performance, the majority of it has been through the medical sector.

28:39Right. So you've got to go through, you know, that whole thing. And that's more prescriptive. Right. If we can't prescribe something to fix it, then that's really all our health care system does. this is more from the performance standpoint or lens, right? Where we know these things exist. And one of the analogies that really brought it home for me was the idea of like weight training. Weight training is a fairly new phenomenon. Even in sports, maybe like the 40s, 50s, don't quote me on the years, but most college programs and even the pros did not use weight training as part of their weekly routine.

29:20It wasn't until the University of Nebraska introduced weight training as a tool to reduce the amount of injuries their players were having. And then they went on to win three state national championships. Then all of a sudden, every college program in the country had a weight training program, including professional athletes, which then trickled down to the society at large. Now you can't go to a hotel or any kind of club without a weight room, a gym and things like that. Lipping weights is now just a daily part of our society. I see Nestri and brain performance at the same way. We're obviously on the front end of that, but I see that potential.

29:56And to me, that's where I want to be. What are the next cutting edge things that we can invest in that makes sense to me that I think can make mankind better? So like with Nestri, and you don't have to answer if you don't want to, but what kind of exit do you see? So like you invested at some valuation. I don't know what it was. somewhere, let's say between five and 10 million, give or take, you invested some amount of money and how do you see it growing and exiting? Like when, when do you think you'll exit from this investment? I mean, you know, I think any investment where you're looking for at least five to 10 years that, you know, those, usually those kinds of windows.

30:38And I know it's a startup and usually my investment strategy is to invest in late to growth stage companies. This is an early stage company. And so I know, and because it's former athletes, they're two black founders, and it's very near and dear to my heart, obviously being a football player, knowing how many guys are suffering from brain injuries and concussions. It's one of those things that I, you know, for me, it's not necessarily about the exit, it's about helping this grow. And knowing that in 10 years, I can see this being something that's bigger. And then, then we talk about, you know, exiting, But I think it's something that needs, obviously, some assistance to kind of get off the ground right now.

31:17This is like a passion investment. Like, you know the company will exist 10 years from now, which means it'll probably be bigger than it is now. And it's something you're passionate about. It's related to what you did. Whereas franchising is something that's more almost like a formula. Like, okay, the average Wendy's franchise does this, this, this, has, you know, 18 % growth per year. I go in like this and eventually, you know, there's always people out there I could sell a bunch of franchises to. So that is kind of a more like give me an example of like where you're in a franchise. Yeah. So we started we're at about 20 units right now.

31:53We started with five Papa John's and have scaled that up all on the East Coast, from Jersey up to Maine. And now we're moving into Wingstop. So quick service restaurants are where we focus. And like I said, we've grown that portfolio mainly in Papa John's, but are now courting some other franchises to build that. We want to have 100 plus units and be one of the largest black franchisees in the country. And is the idea that the more franchises you own of the same brand, like Papa John's in this case, there's back end costs that you could reduce? What's the benefit of owning multiple Papa John's as opposed to diversifying across, you know, many different types of chains.

32:35Yeah. Where'd you get your foot in the door somewhere, right? And then you stick to what you know. So I think for us, that was our kind of way in the door. They had a really good onboarding deal at the time. And when we got in, they went through some hard times and we were able to weather that storm and then grow and have been doing great. And since then, because franchising is very much an operational business. We do really well with operations. And so we've had other companies come to us to try to get stores. So now we're not searching for deals. We're actually wearing our options and taking the best ones and looking for the most opportunities to get into other franchises.

33:14Sometimes it might be a flagship, blue chip franchise, but the cost to get into it is too high. Or it might be the other way around where people are trying to offload stores, but it's just not the best store to get into. So for us, we know that we have our operations down and we can keep that process and that formula going for as long as we need. As we scale, we're just trying to do it conservatively, do it with obviously the most opportunistic endeavors. And then we're trying to recruit others too. There's a part of my peers that want to get into franchising. I didn't know much about it before we jumped into it.

33:50And now there's an opportunity to scale by growing, just the education base and recruiting other athletes that want to get that exposure. We're like, hey, we can take care of the operation. Let's just all put the money together so we can scale this to something that none of us could have done. That's great because you can, A, you can organize yourself almost like a hedge fund where other athletes get to participate in your management ability of buying and running and owning franchises. or you could charge, let's say, take a small piece of ownership of a franchise. If you educate someone and make the introduction, so an athlete you know buys a franchise and starts to get into that business.

34:31You can go in a couple of different directions with that. Yeah, we call it Athletes Franchise Partners. So we already set up that vehicle. And I've actually had teammates that have been into franchising that we've been able to mentor. I've had my team take a look at their stores, see how they're operating, give them some assistance and some tips also, and even like resources to make sure that those stores can survive because we've done it now. Like we feel confident in our operations and our ability to execute. And we're able to pass that knowledge around to those who look like us and who need it, which is very, that's a very, very important part of building wealth, especially in black and brown communities, the educational part, being able to stand people up, not only with the finances, but with the know-how to get things done.

35:18Yeah. It's so interesting. Like, um, first, first of all, with franchising, it's interesting because you have to be able to evaluate that this is like, like you said, a good company, a company that does good franchise. Like you're getting value when you buy into it. Like, like there's the famous story of Boston chicken where, you know, it might've been expensive to buy a franchise and then they were lending people money to buy the franchise. So they were getting into too much debt and it was just all a house of cards. They were lending money to buy, but then the franchises weren't doing well. So they weren't getting, they were getting fees until the money ran out and they had to keep raising money.

35:53And then eventually it all collapsed. Whereas Papa John's, you could say, okay, you're getting value. These are the average returns of a Papa John's and the company's not drowning in debt. They're not doing anything kind of pyramid scheme. Like it's, it's like Subway is probably legit as well. McDonald's. Oh yeah, very much so. Yeah. And the same way I talked about venture capital, our strategy of like latent growth stage companies, it's the same in franchising. We're not going to put all our money or our eggs in one basket on a new concept that hasn't really proven itself. And you don't see where the support is and all those things.

36:26We started with blue chip franchises, knowing that the support was there, the notoriety is there. You're not trying to educate the public on what this brand is and what they do. and we can build there. And once we've got a nice foundation and our feet in the ground, we'll take some chances on some of those new concepts that may show some promise. And we've been courting some of those recently, but the first part of our phase was really, phase one was just establish a solid ground base of stores and with a franchise that is proven and isn't going anywhere anytime soon. Let me ask you something about Papa John's.

37:03Let me ask your advice on this. the founder of Papa John's, I forget his name now. I assume it's John, but I'm totally forgetting his name. He, I guess, wrote a book. He was going to come on the podcast and I was doing my research. I didn't know anything about him. And I saw that he said some things that were - Yeah, he said the N-word a couple of times. Yeah, like really racist. And I canceled the podcast at the last minute. And what do you think I should have done? No, I think that was appropriate. I would have, that happened six weeks after we got into the Papa John's franchise. So we opened five stores and within six weeks, all that news broke of his racial slurs and things like that.

37:47And then we had 3 million, you know, invested at that point. So we couldn't just cancel the podcast. So we had to weather that storm. But obviously, you know, that was a tough time for the company. and then eventually they brought in or got rid of him, brought in Shaq and made a lot of changes. I think this is the second CEO we've been on now since that time, but it's been really for the better. The company has been growing and has really recovered from that part. The pandemic in 2020 was huge for quick service restaurants that had very small square footage because they were able to operate and deal with deliveries and all those things.

38:25So that helped recover and then since all the things that they've done to reestablish the brand, the things they've done in the community and the messaging that's been going on ever since has really been encouraging to see. Why did he, you know, and this reminds me of the guy who owned the Clippers, Sterling. Why, it's just, are they like in an older generation? Like why, I have in my entire life, I will tell you, I have never heard anyone use the N-word, you know, other than rappers. So, you know, I have. Yeah. Tell me, tell me. Yeah. The first time I got to Ohio, when I got to Ohio State, I had a teammate use the N word.

39:09And I was just like, I don't, you know, I'm a kid out of New Jersey and didn't, you know, I was really caught off guard because I'm like, where am I at? You know, like, what world is this? I grew up in a really diverse town, but going to a place and being called the N-word was definitely something that's happened. And it's not unique, obviously, to me. And it does still happen. I think we live in a time where we want to feel like we're past these type of things. But I think if, you know, not to get into politics or anything like that, but I think, you know, if anything, we're really paying attention when we see that these things have never really gone away.

39:44In fact, they're gaining steam as time goes on. No, and I believe you. So this teammate, he called you this word? He wasn't using it like he wasn't like a black guy and using the word. He was trying to. Yeah, he was like, what's up, man? And I'm like, I don't play like that. I don't know where you grew up or where you're from, but this is not how I get down. You know, and so it wasn't one of those where I felt like he was trying to demean me, but it also was one where there's no understanding of the context and the depth of, you know, what those words mean, where they come from, the feelings that they conjure.

40:22And to me, that's, you know, so when you see people in these closed circles or, you know, these situations where it's found out that somebody is using them, it's usually, you know, when they think or believe that they are safe and they can do this behind closed doors and it won't affect them. Or they can get away with it from somebody who isn't as powerful as they are. But, you know, in a good and bad way, I think the amount of exposure that those things have gotten at least showcases that there are some consequences for your words. This is the land of free speech. You can say whatever you want, but you are not exempt from the reactions or the consequences of those words.

41:01Do you think things at all have gotten better in the past few decades? Or you think it's just kind of more hidden or slanted in different ways now? You're talking like as far as race relations? Yeah, just there's race relations and then there's racism. Yeah. Oh, no, racism is well and alive. I think, you know, people, we hear a lot of people say like the country's divided now. And I really don't feel that way. I think, you know, it's divided because we're finally having real conversations out loud. and that creates a lot of discomfort. But I think racism, if you look at what's happening all around the country, racism is baked into our society.

41:51It just is from the beginning to where we currently are. And so I think there are definitely more nuanced conversations about how we balance the scales somewhat. But the idea of eradicating racism will first have to start with acknowledging its role in, you know, the foundations of our society. And when we start to have those conversations, that's where that kind of dissolves. And so I think, you know, for us to really get to the place we want, there has to be truth and reconciliation. And we're in an age where they're trying to ban books. So I don't know if we'll get there anytime soon. Thank you.

43:06shake up your meal routine. Go to cookunity.com slash mealtime50 or enter code mealtime50 before checkout for 50 % off your first week. That's cookunity.com slash mealtime50. You know, you say one of the first steps is to acknowledge the role it's playing in our current society. Like, okay, we know that it's been an ongoing discussion in policing. It appears there's a lot of systemic racism where cops will shoot a black person or were black mentally ill you know all sorts of problems what's an area where you've encountered it kind of outside that i would look at housing um as a huge one right like when you know the history so so a lot of you know a lot of times i grew up you know thinking or not understanding why um white people were living out in the suburbs, why black people were in these super-populated, hyper-populated pockets where things are run down, there's crime, things like that.

44:09And you're wondering, one may just say, well, this is just how things are. But when you really unpack it, you realize that the projects that we've all now written off as these dilapidated places were built for white people. They were occupied by white people. It wasn't until white class white people moved to the new suburbs who were buying houses, who were investing in the American dream and this idea of capitalism, that then we were, that's where black people filled that role. Then when we wanted to come to the suburbs, ran into situations like redlining, and then in the South, just flat out violence, where they just burn your whole town down.

44:50And so we started to follow those kinds of like trends, like, okay, well, what does that do to of homeownership, Black homeownership is the same rate as it was now as it was in the 60s. So none of that has improved. We look at the wealth gap. White Americans on average make about 10 times that of Black Americans. These things don't happen by accident. So for us to have a real conversation about racism, even if we ended and decided not to be racist from today forward, we still would have to deal with the 400 years of racism that we've already been dealing with and the impacts of that. And that's where we are right now.

45:29That's where the real conversation has to be had. It's not just about moving forward in a kumbaya way, but we have to reconcile what has been done, how we've structured our society, the things and effects that it has had, and how it's really poisoned our moral standard, really, for living. Yeah. I mean, like, and I wonder who's better at doing it, like the government or people like, like you educating people to own franchises. That strikes me as incredibly valuable because if you look at, let's say New York city, where you look at the velocity, what's called the velocity of money in the different parts of New York city.

46:06And velocity of money is if I make a dollar, you know, in, on my street, I'll just go across the street to the flower store and buy a flour for my wife with that dollar. And then that flour guy will go across the street to the deli guy and buy a sandwich with that dollar. And the money stays, the money,$1 might circulate eight times in the same area before it finally leaves the area. Whereas in like Harlem, I don't know how it is right now, but for many decades, somebody would make a dollar and it would instantly leave Harlem. And that's why there are no money would get poured back into Harlem because there was all the velocity of money was zero.

46:42It would circulate not at all. Because let's say, you know, somebody from another part of town would own the laundry store, another person would own the McDonald's, another person would own the shoe store, and then none of them lived in Harlem. Yeah. I think what you're referring to is something that I think, like you said, it is the solution. At least if we can't get it done through government, the self-empowerment piece is group economics. And it's lessons that have been lost over time because we used to do these things. There were not only Black Wall Street in Tulsa, Oklahoma, but you had dozens of Black-owned communities where the dollars circulated from Black-owned businesses to Black patrons, Black businesses, over and over and over again.

47:23The majority of those towns were burned down and destroyed because nobody wants an empowered Black community that has their own money, that can create their own politics and can move outside of the racist construct that we have in our country. But I do think the answer to the solution, at least for black and brown folks, is collective economics, the ability to take my dollar, put it to your business that is owned in my community, the way to, if we want to invest for us to pull money together in order to scale, right, it mitigates the risk. It allows us to get into other, a plethora of investments so that if one falls, these others make up for it.

48:06We're right now, we're at a place where our communities have been, you know, destroyed. Our history has been erased. And we have African-Americans in a state of survival, which means that they can only focus on them. So even trying to talk about the team and where to put my dollar, I'm just trying to feed my kids. And I think there's a need today to talk about, because there is a group of, I think, African-Americans that has ascended, that has more than we have ever had. And I think in that space, the conversations about how we join that money together, how do we do business together, how do we create the infrastructures to create that same scenario as you said, like where we can pass dollars one business to the next and that circulates.

48:52Right now, the infrastructure isn't there. Even when we look at black banks, right? The ability to hold your money or to get loans and business loans, things like that. Black banks have been decimated. There's less than 20 in the country. And if they are still running, they're very, very limited. And so there's a need for infrastructure if there's going to be some real growth in the black community. Yeah. And I'm just curious. So a few years ago, I co-wrote a book with Charlemagne the God, the radio host, about racism. And this was in the aftermath of BLM. And basically what happened was he set me up to interview all these people that he knew and associated could educate me on issues and racism.

49:38And I heard things I never knew and couldn't even believe. Like, I didn't know that, for instance, on average, doctors prescribe less pain medication to black people than to white people. This one woman was explaining to me that basically the data showed that doctors somehow thought black people were more pain resistant, which is just outrageous. Yeah, that's why black women have a higher death rate during birth than anybody else because they're given less pain. The assumption is that they can deal with the pain. And, you know, I wonder, like, this doesn't seem to occur with other minorities in the U.S.

50:22And like you said, there's a 400-year history. Do you think it is related to the history, the fact that Black people came here, at least a large portion of them came here as slaves, as opposed to any other immigrant groups and other minorities came here in other capacities? Yeah, absolutely. There's no way to tether the history, you know, of where we are today and say that, Well, only the last, because even if you went through the last 50 years, right, there's been so much that we've had to overcome in the last 50, 60 years. But that is only the tip of the iceberg. There was 400 more years of racism and chattel slavery and Jim Crow and policies and war on drugs, war on crime, redlining.

51:11like all of these things contribute to where we are today a lot of the people who are in the government or who are in power were alive when these things were being put together like so to think that we're so far removed from these histories that they no longer are relevant they're very relevant we're living in the relics of the of all of the you know that history we walk in it every day we're trying to improve on it we may talk about it better it's not in your face as much as it used to be, which is cool. I'm not worried about getting lynched today, but at the same time, I am very much worried about, you know, where my kids are going to go to school.

51:48How, you know, when I send them off into this world, what world are they facing? Are they going to get a fair shot? Are they, you know, going to be harassed by, you know, authority figures? Are schools, you know, going to victim or villainize them for their hair or or the way they walk or talk, like the idea, there are still, we're still fighting over books and history. And so to think that we are somehow like past this place where like racism isn't really that, you know, prevalent is just negligent, really. It's like, you'd have to choose not to see what's going on right now. Do you ever go back and look at your genealogy and see where your ancestors, I don't know if they were, but where they were slaves and who are the descendants of the slave owners from that time?

52:47Where does your mind take you when you think about the history of your own family? Yeah, so I've never tried to trace my family back to its roots in slavery. I've tried to trace my DNA back to pre-slavery. So one of the things that, you know, is tough as African-Americans, most of us don't know where we're actually from. We are we were something before we were, you know, labeled a slave. So my family history doesn't start there. My family history starts on the coast of Africa. And so when I did my DNA tests and, you know, I'm banking. This is the only information I have on some history. I did some one of those DNA tests.

53:28And my maternal lineage is from Nigeria and my paternal lineage comes from Guinea-Bissau. So, you know, it's those. And for me, that led me that same question, like, you know, where am I from? Where is my history led me to take a few trips to Africa. And I've outlined that in the book and how impactful that was for me, you know, to have some sense of identity that my history didn't start in slavery. And unfortunately, that's kind of how we look at it, like here in the States. It's like, you know, OK, well, what plantation did you come from? And realistically, all of us came from the shores of Africa.

54:07None of us are native here. and that history, you know, has been robbed. And that's a real thing, to not know where you're from, to not have a home base. This is the land of immigrants, right? But every immigrant can think about their home base and can find a sense of identity in that, where for a long time you even had African-Americans and Africans not even identifying with one another, which tells you the depths of like the psychological kind of like warfare that's been going on where I can see somebody who looks exactly like me I know my history comes from the shore of Africa but I will not identify with that person and in fact I might distance myself from that person is a wild phenomenon and I think it's it's things like that that really show me the depths of our collective brainwashing but also you know how used to it we are we don't even think twice about those things you know and the nfl is an interesting place because by revenues it's the largest sport by far in the united states i would guess this is true which is that more than 50 of the players african-american i don't know for sure about 70 something yeah 70 over 70 so when there's a protest in the nfl and and probably all the owners are white so when there's a protest it really Yeah.

55:30Yeah. So so like when Colin Kaepernick, you know, started kneeling during the other and you had your own form for this, you would raise your fist in the air. What does it mean? What does the kneeling mean? It's it's it's really to point out the contradictions that we put out as a country. We say it's the land of the free and that, you know, all men are created equal. and that has yet to be the truth. And so it's about using, it was about taking the opportunity to where we knew we had the most eyes on us. You know, this is the most views we were going to get all week, all year. Take that opportunity to put this information in front of the public, to make people deal with it.

56:15Because waiting, right? You know, a lot of people would say like, this is not the time or place to do that. I don't want to see that in a game. It's like, well, when do you want to see it? Because you ignore it every other time. We try to have these conversations and you're able to turn the channel, swipe past it, you know, or ignore it. And we're in a situation where we're trying to survive. These are dire situations. People's lives are being lost in the hands of police. You know, our kids' education, you know, the standard or the quality is poor and only getting worse. the gaps that are between us, whether it be wealth, it be health, education, are only getting wider.

56:58And so the urgency is there from the Black community. We understand it. We live it. We know it. And that's why it was essential for us to, or imperative for us to use those huge moments, the platforms that we had to speak on that. We aren't the first athletes to do it. We won't be the last. but I think it's one of those things where it's my question back is always like well how long do you think we were going to be ignored without saying anything and it seems like you know these protests I don't know how you judge success but they they work like money was set aside the NFL set aside money to devote towards you know social initiatives that the athletes were able to direct that money to some extent.

57:45Like, do you feel that's been beneficial so far? I mean, that's been beneficial, but the protests are not aimed or were not aimed at the NFL. The protests were aimed at society and our government, the things that we vote on, how we govern ourselves. The NFL can't solve racism. It can help, like all businesses can help in its hiring practices and the way they do their business, the money they give out, the charities they support. Of course, they can help, but the NFL is not the cause of racism, nor is it a solution. Those protests were aimed at society at large. All of us as citizens have to take responsibility for, and it's all of us who are going to, you know, be the ones that change it.

58:28Did you personally have to deal with people telling you, hey, you know, don't do that, like, you know, that's not appropriate or blah, blah, blah? Yeah, I mean, I got death threats. I had people telling me, you know, when and where it was appropriate. you know even teammates you know who disagree with um what we were doing but that only tells me that it was an effective protest you know what protest they get angry yeah what protest if they're all like ignoring it it's not working exactly right so so again do you think there's any part of society that where people are listening to people that it is improving or do you think we've been kind of going down a a path that's a little harder to see maybe I think there's just a lot on the table.

59:14You know, obviously, I think I have a very narrow lens. There are a lot of, especially politically, right? It's always tough because some things take precedence, right? Like in 2020, you had the George Floyd situation, but you also had global pandemic, right? And so you're tussling over how to get people's attention. And when you're the minority, you know, your needs are also minority to the larger narrative, you know, of the country. And so part of it is being diligent about constantly making noise because closed mouths don't get fed. but there is but you can't just wait for the world to suddenly hear you and you know think that you'll pull on our heartstrings change their mind and then they'll set things up for you there has to be some things that we're going to do amongst ourselves until the rest of the world catches up and I think that's both of that needs to be played so it's it's the political sphere we need to be active and understanding how that moves and affect us affects us but also on a local you know, family level, making sure that our families have what they need, making sure education is there, making sure there's knowledge about how money works and group economics.

1:00:32Those are the things that will help us see some of the changes that we want. And those are things that we can do on our own while we still fight for the legislative, you know, changes, the policing changes, the resources that are allocated, you know, cities and towns, like all of those things still need to happen. We've tried, I feel like one in the other, but, um, it's gotta be full court press on, on all, all in. Yeah, that's, uh, you know, and it, it seems like you've always been like a step ahead of a lot of the athletes in terms of, you know, the, the awareness of these things and the protests, but also like in your book, you mentioned how 80 % of athletes end up going broke at some point.

1:01:18And we know the amount of money that a lot of athletes in particularly the NBA, the NFL, Major League Baseball, and maybe a few other sports, and yet they still end up bankrupt. And I can relate to that. I made a lot of money at different points and went bankrupt. It takes a while to really understand money. And you've been able to be aware of this and help educate others. like all together in your career, how much money do you think you made just salary? I think I made probably just under 70 million. I mean, that's quite a bit. Yeah. Something like that. Maybe, maybe I think 60, 60 million. But I mean, you cut, so you cut that in half, obviously, because of taxes and agents.

1:02:09So let's say I made 30. Yeah. And then of that, I've made the majority of that in the back half of my career. So I think we get caught up with the numbers, right? And it's like, well, how do you blow all of that? And the average player only plays, the average NFL career is less than three years. And the average NFL player makes, I think, it used to be less than, but let's just say it's right at about a million dollars, the average salary. So you make$2 million and then cut that in half because it taxes. So you have a million that you're supposed to live off of for the rest of your life. And the majority of the time, you're going to try to live somewhat better than you did in college.

1:02:52That money doesn't last long is the point, right? As soon as you spend a dollar, you're no longer a millionaire. And that's really how things work. When you've given your life to a game, so you've probably never done an internship, never had a job, have no financial literacy or education, and you've given everything, put everything into being good on the field. And now our society kind of laughs at you or expects you to be some savvy business person at the age of 23 when, you know, no one else functions like that. Even the idea of budgeting, we got paid every two weeks during the season alone.

1:03:31So you only get paid from September to January 1st. So you've got to figure out how to make that pay schedule stretch at least a year. Then once you figure out how to do it for a year, you realize, oh, no, if I get cut, injured or something like that, and my career is over, I actually need to budget this for life. Suddenly, this lifestyle of an NFL player really gets reduced down to the average Joe. if you look at it like that. If I wanted to make my football money last the rest of my life without any kind of sophisticated investing, if I just wanted to sit on it and make it last, my budget would need to be that of Joe Schmo.

1:04:14And I think that we don't really understand it like that because it's such a unique place. We just see the amount of somebody's contract go across the bottom of the ticker, and it's usually a quarterback or a receiver who's making astronomical money, but the guy who's barely active or a special teams guy, been in the league, you know, only maybe one or two years and then is out. That's the average football player. And we don't talk about those guys. Yeah. And that brings up a kind of weird question, but do the special teams guys feel bad? Because they're all on the football field like a few minutes a game and nobody really, Like you said, they think of the quarterback, the wide receiver.

1:04:57Oh, there's so-and-so. Does anybody acknowledge the special teams guys? Oh, all the time. I mean, the special teams, that's the fun thing about team sports is the outside of fanfare, of course, the quarterback may get paid, he gets all the attention, all those things. But when it comes down to the success of a team, the best teams are filled with people who know their role, And their role might not be as big, but it is equally as important. And so the quarterback also has more responsibility than the special teams player. Nobody's saying that the special teams player blew the game for us. Unless you're a kicker and you missed the kick, then it's your fault.

1:05:40But other than that, you know, it's like there's any good team has people that have roles that are bigger and smaller. But all good teams know that every single one of those roles is equally as important. yeah no it's so it's so interesting because uh there's a lot of people on an nfl team whereas on an nba team doesn't need as many people and uh so but it's interesting well well malcolm you've had such a diverse story between the athletics the activism the financial aspect the educational aspect you know it's really valuable that you wrote this book what winners won't tell you lessons from a legendary defender you look like you're in good shape on the cover yeah i gotta get in better shape i'm getting older i gotta get i gotta get in good shape but i'm not i'm not gonna be in the nfl anytime soon but um good luck with this book and and thanks so much for coming on the podcast and you know i appreciate it come on come on anytime you want if you got something bring on the nestry guys and uh we'll we'll talk that we'll get all your investment up Start starting to nerding out on some cognitive performance.

1:06:48Yeah, for sure. I hope it's not one of those things, though, where like when I was a kid, everyone told me, oh, you have a really high IQ. You took an IQ test. And then I take the IQ test and it was like 75 or something like that. No, it's not. It's not one of those. No problem. Well, thanks again, Malcolm. I appreciate it. Thank you.

1:07:15Thank you.