1021: Konstantin Samoilov | Putin's Russia: An Insider's Perspective

25:15Absolutely. Only not blood, but it's a Russian word. Blood. T at the end. Blood. Oh, I really didn't put that together. I thought you meant blood. It's really hard for me to pronounce it, right? Blood is nepotism in America. You know, the system that you got to know someone to get ahead, to get a good job, to get high place in the society, and this is how it works in Russia. So when I returned, they made me the manager the very first year that I started working for them, literally a few months after sweeping parking lot. And you know what? They were right. I was doing a good job. I could barely speak English.

25:52At that time, I had a few employees under me and older American guys, and I was doing scheduling, and I was taking care of customer relations and sales and everything. Small operation, but still, you know, and I went back to Russia and I was telling everyone, everyone was, I left Russia, I was nobody. No one besides my family knew me, but I returned to Russia a star for one simple reason. I had spent one year in the USA. That was very unique experience. And everyone wanted to speak with me to hear my story. And when I was telling them the story and I told them, well, I made the manager of the hotel.

26:31No one believed me. They said, you're lying. You're making this up. They didn't say lying, but they politely like, oh, you probably telling us a little more. Oh yeah. Congratulations. He probably doesn't really, you know, but he's proud of himself. Let it go. That kind of thing. Yeah. That type of thing. And then they couldn't believe that me coming from a different country without knowing anyone, without family there, without connections that I could lend a job, a managerial job. Okay. So that was very interesting. Russia is run on blood. It was like that in the USSR. And for a brief period, it changed in the 90s for about 15, 17 years in the early 2000s.

27:15But now it's back with a bang, the system, unfortunately. And that's one of the reasons why what's happening in Russia is happening. It's a close circle. Russia is taken by a certain gang, and only who belongs to the gang are allowed to run the country and so forth. In the United States, compared to Russia, it's like, we're all humans, okay? There is blood in America, but very, very little, okay, compared to Russia. I guess the difference sounds to me like if you have blood in America, okay, your dad's a senator, you go to a private school, you end up at a decent university, even if he has to do a donation or like offer free commencement speeches to get you in or something like that.

28:00And then you get a decent job or maybe you even work for him in his office. So you have a little bit of a paved, plowed road. But if you don't have any of that, you can still go to a decent public school, go to a decent university, pay your loans off, become a lawyer or whatever, like you might have some student loans, but it's not impossible. It sounds like in Russia, either you are a golden child who gets the best education, best opportunities, the best jobs, or no matter what you do, you're basically screwed, unless you're in some sort of criminal enterprise and you're, you know, completely outside of society.

28:35More or less, yes, with the exceptions, of course. Let me just give you an example. That case in Maine back in 97 is a very good case to explain. I came to this new hotel and I had had not any experience in teaching and, you know, setting up hotels or anything like that. So I was just learning myself on the go and I had very little experience at the other hotel. So I come in and there's a guy and he, you know, dressed up in a suit for me and he starts taking notes of what I say, and he turned out to be the son of a loyal local mayor. And the owners ended up firing him because he didn't know what he was doing, right?

29:19How it would work in Russia, if we were in Russia, the mayor's son would be the general director of all hotels, probably even taking ownership of the business. If it was not agreed with the owners, then they would simply not have their license renewed. Or a police would come and, you know, check on their places way too often or something like that. You know what I mean? Yeah. So there's no choice the owners would have. They would have to take the son, even if it was not very professional. That's how it would work in Russia. For the most part, it's still how it works in different ways, but the idea has been the same.

30:01Mm-hmm. That's awful. It's basically, you just have this tax of having this annoying owner taking part of your business who allows you to operate and adds no value other than allowing you to operate. Jordan, that was before in Russia. Now it's much worse. Now the KGB comes in and just steals your company. You know, they take the ownership, they steal the ownership away from you. You know, they sue you and the court rules into their, you know, your company transfers to state and then state leases it out to a person who's it's supposed to lease it to you know what i mean i see so now it's much worse you said in one of your videos a good job in russia is a job where you can steal a lot instead of just stealing a little instead of just working right so it's like maybe you could be a doctor and you have like some sort of okay salary but a good job would be a government job where you can extort business owners or something like that doctors don't make a lot in Russia.

30:59$1 ,300 per month is considered very good salary. And there's tons of proofs. Many doctors get together and make video recordings addressed to Vladimir Putin on, please help us. We're not getting paid and things like that. But what would be a good job, I know what is considered a good job, is the head of the hospital. Because he or she is in charge of all procurement. The government money goes to the hospital. The head of the hospital chooses who to buy from. Of course, for a fee. Yeah, right. I'm going to buy from the person who kicks back 10 % to me personally. Yes. And no matter that the equipment is 50 % more expensive and less quality than from the other guy.

31:42They got to get that 10 % from somewhere, right? So, and I'm allowing them to get away with whatever, because I'm crooked too. So here's your dirty syringe. I'm going to be on my yacht. I mean, that sucks. Or you will set up your own company, let's say your cousin's company and then buy it from him, something like that. Right. Oh, man. Some jobs in the United States have crooked elements, in my opinion. For example, I don't know if you know this, our Congress can essentially engage in insider trading where they can use information that they know from government meetings, and then their husband or cousin or brother or I think even themselves can trade stocks based on that.

32:17And that's awful, and they should eliminate that, in my opinion. However, it's not an outright kleptocracy where they are doing what we just discussed, for example, with the hospital procurement. I mean, that would be that would be straight up illegal. And I think the insider trading element should be illegal as well, because essentially they're stealing from all of us when we're investing, not knowing that inside information. But I don't want to get too far down the rabbit hole. I'm just trying to be fair in that we have some of that, but it's completely different in scale, too, from the sound of it.

32:46Absolutely. You're right on. We're all humans. We all have temptations. Okay. But systems are completely different. People must certainly ask, okay, if all the really good opportunities went to people who are well-connected, how come you got straight A's and they didn't just give your scholarship to some punk whose dad was important? Because it wasn't the Russians who were giving out scholarships. Oh, it was the United States, right, that got the grant. It was the Americans. That was the United States. Yes. I see. Yes. All right. So you stay in the U.S. for a bit. You've moved to the U.S. at 20, moved back to Russia at age 29.

33:19Why go back to Russia? What was the impetus there? I had a very good life in the USA. I continued my education in southern Maine. I met a girl I fell in love with. We had a kid. And after so many years having the same job, Maine isn't the most exciting place in the world. It's probably the best place in the world, but it was far from the most exciting. And my wife was raised in California, and Southern California in Anaheim. And she kept telling me stories about Southern California. And she was becoming a registered nurse. We decided to change our lives to move someplace. We went and checked out California, Santa Barbara, Fantasia, drove all over California, and Santa Barbara caught our eye.

34:07So we came to Maine, came back, and I told my friends that I was thinking of moving to California. So they immediately made me a counteroffer, said, don't stay in Maine, we'll buy another hotel, we'll make you junior partner, which was incredible. You know, I was 28 at the time. So either way, it was fantastic. I had two fantastic choices. But there was something inside of me that didn't let me sleep well at nights. I felt like if I were to make one of the moves, either to stay in Maine or to go to California, then I would have to put my roots there. Because our kid was growing up, going to school, and I felt like there's something out there doesn't let me feel comfortable.

34:56And I missed my family so much. I missed Russia. I missed Russian language. I missed Russian culture. I was 100 % Russian, born and raised, right? I was thinking and thinking and thinking, and somebody just called me and offered a job from Russia. People I knew, it was like someone from above gave me the answer. And I said, well, what's the pay? Oh, don't worry about it. That's going to be good. You're going to like it. Where are we going to live? I have a family. Oh, listen, we'll set you up. Just come. And I took the plunge. I basically talked to my wife and we decided to move to Moscow for a couple of years.

35:35And this is how I moved. But my decision was based on, I wanted to see the family. I wanted my child to get exposure to Russian culture. I wanted to speak Russian for a while. I wanted my wife to know where I was coming from, that type of thing. This is why I moved. Did people think you were crazy leaving the United States for Russia? Like, did Russians say, what the hell? You lived in America? You're going to move to California and now you're back in Moscow and it's January? What's wrong with you? I must have been asked that question 10 ,000 times. 10 ,000 times. Everyone. Yeah. And then I would tell them, look, I could see in their eyes, like, oh, okay.

36:15But then they didn't believe me. They're like, ah, he must be absolutely insane. Yeah. He either was, I don't know, kicked out or he's like crazy. Yeah. No one, no one believed me. Even a full-time parking lot sweeper can afford to take advantage of the great deals on the fine products and services that support this show. We'll be right back. If you're wondering how I managed to book all these great authors, thinkers, creators every single week, it's because of my network, the circle of people that I know, like, and trust. And I'm teaching you how to build the same thing for yourself for free over at 6minutenetworking.com.

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37:12You can find the course at sixminutenetworking.com. All right, now back to Konstantin Samoylov. I would love to know what it was like when Putin started making noises like he might invade Ukraine. I mean, most people said, ah, this is bluster. He's trying to flex. Don't worry about it. Were you in that camp or were you like, this is an imminent invasion like the United States predicted? You are talking to one of the people who are saying, don't listen to it. You know, that's just flexing muscles and things like that. You know, I'll remind you, there were two attempts. Well, one attempt and one realized attempt.

37:52The first one was in April of 2021, when Russia started moving large amounts of troops to the Ukrainian border to the city of Rostov and all around Rostov. That's where I'm from. See, in Russia, I lived in two cities. In Moscow, my job was, and my family was in Rostov. My second wife and my family, you know, they were all from Rostov, from the same place. So I saw the military. I saw the planes flying over our house, the big bombers. I saw everything with my own eyes, but I didn't believe, I had not one single doubt that Russia would never invade Ukraine. And it happened the first time. Russia has just moved back to where they came from throughout the country.

38:38And then the same thing happened only towards the end of 2021. And I kept saying the same thing. Hey, Russian troops can move whatever they want within Russia as long as they don't step over the border, then they're fine. The whole idea of invading Ukraine sounded absolutely insane. I mean, can New Hampshire invade Maine or Maine invade New Hampshire? You know, I lived right next to Ukraine. I was growing up there. I speak Russian with a Ukrainian accent. Southern accent. I lived in Ukraine for one year. Okay. I have friends from in Ukraine. I worked in Ukraine. I started businesses there. I know people and it never felt like I was in a foreign country.

39:21And it's just people spoke with a little different accent. That's all. And thinking that Russians could, none in Russia thought that, believed that we could invade Ukraine. Okay. And then I was absolutely caught off guard by what happened on 24th of February. I was just, I'm still shocked, to be honest with you. I still, I'm used to it now, but I'm still like, it's unbelievable. What did you do right away? I mean, was it just, let's watch the news or did you think there was going to be a draft? Because I know, actually, let me back up. What happened first? Was it American companies pulling out or was the draft first?

39:59I don't remember the timeline. I never cared too much about the draft. It wasn't the draft. There are two systems in Russia. First is draft. Everyone who turns 18 must go and serve two years. It used to be two years. Now it's one year, I think. And that is mobilization. That's completely different. Mobilization is announced at time of wars, things like that. So when Putin came out and said, and I remember I woke up and I came to the first floor of my house and I saw him speaking to Russians saying, I announced the special military operation. And it looked at that time like he had no doubts that it would end soon, within a few days.

40:38No one had any doubts. Even I called my Ukrainian friends and they were absolutely down because they were being bombed. by this said, well, you know what? That's going to get over soon because these not good people will take the Kiev very soon. Okay, they're like approaching the closing on Kiev. No one had any doubts. I was more concerned with what's happening with my country because the moment that I heard that Russia invaded Ukraine, started the war, I understood everything, what was going to happen. Okay, it's clear, Russia is no more, was no more. As a new country was born and the Russia that I knew that I returned to did not exist anymore, okay?

41:17I absolutely knew about society changing and economies going down the drain and Soviet Union coming back because it's obvious. American companies started pulling out. There was a shock and a vacuum. No Russian officials understood. None of them knew. And no one was commenting. They didn't know what to say. It was only like official propaganda, military on TV all the time, and Putin and a couple more people. That's it. Like all local politicians, they had no clue. They all were in shock. They were saying, what the fudge? And of course, it wasn't fudge, you know. Blat! Yes, yes, yes. That's the one you hear in all the Russian videos.

41:58Yes, that's pretty much, you know, you get it. Yeah. And then the second day, I remember things started changing. Some people started bashing each other on Facebook because some would come out and say, what are you doing? Are you insane? You're killing Ukrainians. In others, it was like, you got to be with our president. The president knows what he's doing. There must be Nazis there. So I saw the crack in the society. Right. And I saw people stopping talking to each other. And I'm like, wow, this is... Anyway, that was day number two. I started streaming and I streamed every single day. ever since.

42:37I started looking for ways how to help. I started thinking, what can I do? I started feeling incredible guilt because I'm a taxpayer and voter, and I saw that what was happening to Russia didn't do anything. So the first company to pull out was Ikea, and they didn't warn anyone. They said, we're closing all our stores tomorrow. And it was a huge shock to all politicians, because they were saying, they will never do that. They will never leave Russia, because all they care is a buck. You know, they care about profits. That's the people from the West. They're very pragmatic and so forth. And then all of a sudden, IKEA says, we're closing the stores.

43:13Like, everything must go sale today for one day. And all Russians, of course, flocked to IKEA and they started picking up, you know, things at like half price. So IKEA closes, McDonald's closes, Apple closes, and a bunch of other companies just pull out. Microsoft stops selling licenses and I worked at the engineering company and we were about to buy AutoCAD, you know, that's engineering software. All of a sudden, our system administrator comes out and says, well, I can't do that anymore. Everything's been blocked. And then Visa MasterCard stopped working in Russia and it was, this was like instant, okay.

43:52Summer was pretty bad because Russians were advancing further into Ukraine. Then the military started coming in from the West. Ukrainians started pushing back And basically, this is when we saw big changes in the military because Russians started running away, running back. But mobilization was announced on September 21st because obviously they did not have too many Russians were killed. And we still don't know how many officially because they haven't told us anything. But they announced mobilization because they were running out of people. And this is when I left Russia. How did you get out of Russia?

44:32What was that decision process like, actually? I'm curious. You know, were you thinking like, I can stay for a little while. I shouldn't stay for a little while. I mean, what was the, how did you evaluate your options? When the war started, when Russia invaded Ukraine on the 24th, me and my wife, we sat down at the table and I made a video I uploaded on YouTube. I don't know, Jordan, it felt, I felt so hurt for Ukraine and for my country, for my people. It was like betrayal of everything that I believed in. I uploaded the video. Actually, I cried on the video because that's how emotional I felt.

45:07And we started to discuss what to do next with my wife. And we both were absolutely sure that we can't do that. We can't take part of this madness. We gotta go. We gotta leave. And we didn't know where or when, but we knew that that's it. We were done in Russia. Unfortunately, we couldn't live right then because when you have your entire life in one country where you have everything. Like we had a house in Rostov, we had an apartment in Moscow, cars, kids were going to schools, and it's difficult just to get up and go. And we were preparing for so long. And the kick in the butt for me was the mobilization, because I felt like I already had talked too much, because I was the only Russian voice speaking English on the internet reporting from Russia.

45:57There were quite a few YouTubers, but they just stopped doing it when the war started. It's a close community. I knew pretty much all of them personally, but they just told me, we're afraid because we're going to get arrested. Well, I felt like I could not be afraid. I was afraid too, but I could not do it. I had my son, Michael, who was five at the time. Every time I would imagine him at 20 or 25 coming to me and asking, Dad, what were you doing back then? You know, what was your role? How we were trying to fix things? And then what would I say? And then I'm actually very proud of what I'm doing.

46:34And when he's 20, I will tell him. I will show him. So anyway, I kept on streaming every single day, but I felt like they could use commabilization as a tool, as an excuse to get rid of me. Okay. And I felt pretty insecure. And from 21st through 27th, at every live stream, I would say goodbye to all the viewers. I had quite a large audience, a few thousand people watching me every day. I would say, look, if I don't talk to you again, if I don't show up here tomorrow, know that you've been great, you know, that type of thing. Wow. Clouds were getting thicker, and my wife was so mad about me not leaving.

47:14I bet. And she was pushing me, and I remember we're sitting Saturday, and all of a sudden, and I'm just, what do I do? I know I need to leave, but when do I leave? Okay, and then this email coming in, there's a lady from Germany, Daniela Fromm. We communicated before, and said, Kostya, it's been a while, but I had this weird feeling. I had to send you a Bible verse. Okay. And the verse just, you know, I was asking, like, to discuss in Natasha, when, how, and the verse just gave me the answer. It was absolutely incredible, okay? Literally, I read the answer, and right then I said, okay, this is the sign that I gotta go.

47:55And I immediately started looking for a ticket, bought a ticket to middle of nowhere, to Tajikistan. That's the only ticket that was available. Paid$5 ,200 for economic loss. Wow. And I remember I bought the ticket, and then I realized that I only have 36 hours to, this is it. You know, in 36 hours, I won't be in Russia ever again, perhaps. What does that flight normally cost that you paid$1 ,500? Was it normally like 200 bucks? Usually 200 bucks, yeah. Wow. It's just there were no tickets. There were 700 ,000 people living in three days, okay? I remember the tickets to destinations like Tel Aviv in Israel or Yerevan, they were selling for a million rubles, which is over$10 ,000.

48:41Oh my God. It's like$12 ,000,$13 ,000. So I was lucky that I got the ticket to Hujan because no one knows that such place exists. You know how I found the ticket? I actually went to a website of the airport and I started looking at all flights there, international flights. and I would check every single flight specifically. And then I found one ticket and I was gone like that. So I had 36 hours to prepare and I was, Jordan, it's really hard for me to explain when you understand that you just have to get up and take a step into unknown, into a dark room when you don't know anything, you don't know anyone there.

49:25So I spent most of Saturday giving out power or attorney to my wife. Yeah. In case something happens to me so she could sell things. And that was the first time when I realized that I was so lucky because I give my life to my wife, everything I own. And I don't even think I have any suspicions. I'm just, I'm happy to do that. Yeah. You don't have no trust issues or anything. No worries. No, absolutely not. And, you know, I was thinking, what if I didn't trust my wife? Like, what would I do? But so I've been blessed in many ways. In 36 hours, I was gone just like that. It was the hardest thing was to say goodbye to my son, to my daughters, to my wife.

50:08My wife took me to the airport. She was crying all the way. I got out of the car and I had to say goodbye to her. And I saw hundreds of men pulling in the cars, the wives driving, and all in the same situation. Wives crying. Some men were crying. Some men were just, well, no one was smiling, that's for sure. And the airport was filled, packed with Russians. I actually made a video about that. You saw that, right? It's got to be, you're not sure when you're going to see your family again at that point, right? You're just like, okay. Absolutely. Absolutely. It's stepping into unknown. To get out of Russia was pretty, pretty big challenge because five people in front of me who were standing for passport control, they were turned away.

50:56They were not allowed to leave Russia. Really? Why? Mobilization was announced. Perhaps they had some deaths outstanding. Perhaps KGB was looking for them or mobilization offices. I don't know, but not everyone was allowed to leave. But it definitely was the exodus. It was really hard to forget those hours. I bet. I'm curious what Russia was like right before you left. You know, you mentioned IKEA closed. I know McDonald's closed because there's an interesting video you did on your last meal at McDonald's where you go and order stuff and you show just the massive long lines. And then even after closing, there's still kids like, let me get that food.

51:33But what else? There's a, you did a video, I'm willing to this in the show notes, where you went to this fancy, gigantic mall and it was just dead. I mean, it looked like you broke in when they were closed, but all the lights are on. It was crazy how empty that place was. That's how Russia looked. Everyone was stressed. Everyone didn't know what was going on and what was going to happen. That was before the mobilization was announced. Everyone understood that something incredibly wrong was going on in Russia. The country started moving to a wrong direction, and a very dangerous direction. And everyone was stressed.

52:13Everyone was concerned about themselves. wasn't such a great fear back then for freedoms and lives, because the terror started happening later, I would say closer to the mobilization. So people still could say people were not arrested for wearing Ukrainian collars, things like that. Right now, if you even like in the social networks, if you like Ukrainian flag, you get seven years in prison, you know. Is that true? That seems insane. It is insane. It's true. It's true. Wow. If you read something Ukrainian in the subway, that people denounce you, they go and tell local cops, or cops look at the video footage, and then they arrest you.

52:56Things like that happening in Russia. It's really bad. It's like North Korea. Oh, he was reading an English newspaper. He must be a spy. Not there yet. Not there yet. But it's getting there very, very fast. And the worst thing is that they have created laws. They've laid out legal foundation for this. Now, they're acting according to Russian laws. Okay, and the law says that, yes, you can be detained for spreading defakes. They call it the fakes of Russian army. Yes, you can be detained for defaming government officials and things like that. Now, if you wish Russian army defeat, if you wish Ukrainian army win, they can arrest you for treason.

53:40That's the article of the criminal code that is used widely in Russia now. Oh my gosh. Have things rebounded at all? I know you're not in Russia, but I'm not sure what your friends and family are seeing and saying. I mean, has the economy come back a little? Because we always hear like, oh, the sanctions aren't working. You know, they're not doing anything. I talk about it almost daily. Sanctions are working. Sanctions are working very well. Well, there's an opinion that the sanctions are not working because a lot of Western media rely on information, data that comes from Russian government. And that data is a little altered, cooked.

54:19And they say, well, look, Russia has grown 3.6 % in 2023. Well, I'm sorry, but how come Russian president changes the minister of defense in the middle of a war and the new minister of defense proclaims that his main goal is to cut expenses in the Russian military, to run things leaner, in a leaner way, okay? So they say one thing, they do absolutely another thing. How come prices have gone up so much in Russia for everything? That's high inflation. In a normal economy, if sanctions weren't working, prices wouldn't be growing up like crazy. Things like that. There are so many things indicate that sanctions are working.

55:10But Russian official propaganda keep on saying sanctions aren't working, Russia is doing great, and so forth. Well, I'll tell you what. Vladimir Putin was elected the president for the fifth time. Well, can hardly call it the elections, but let's call it this way. Sugarcoating. They were sugarcoating everything for six or so months to create illusion of stability for Russian people, for everyone. But now sugarcoating is off. And right now, Russia is in great turbulence because the war of the clans, political clans, is happening. It's visible now, okay? Okay. Shoigu's out, Patrushov's out, Dumin's out, and so forth, you know.

55:52So this sugarcoating is off. And all you have to do is you have to look at Russia and you will see that sanctions are working. And they won't even be saying that sanctions aren't working because this is it. They don't need to. Vladimir Putin is the president for six more years. Now they don't care. So you watch. You'll be seeing lots of interesting things in Russia very soon. A lot of tankies online say, well, the unemployment rate is really low. And that's part of the reason you have such high inflation, I would imagine. I know that didn't they also start hiring women and 14 year old kids to work in factories in order to sort of make up for the labor shortage as well?

56:29The unemployment is record low in Russia and at all times. It's 2.8 % now. And as economists, I tell you, this is terrible. It's absolutely terrible. It means that economic growth is impossible. There aren't too many people to work. Okay. And you're absolutely right. They are allowing 14-year-old children to work at the factories now. Moreover, they are coming up by June 1st, I believe, they will come up with a list of 48 professions to assign those kids to. They are recruiting women to fight in the war, and they are recruiting just about anyone to do hard manual labor, including women. So this is hardly situation normal type of situation in Russia.

57:18This isn't everything normal. This isn't going according to the plan. This is sanctions working right there. I know that a lot of people, you have this Tashkent Breakfast Club, which is like expat Russians who are leaving or who have left, I should say. Who's leaving Russia right now and in the past few years? And will those people eventually just go back to Russia when this is all over? What do you think? I would say that whoever understands what's going on, what's truly going on, tries to leave Russia. Not all can, because there are circumstances. Some people just can't afford it. Some people too afraid.

57:55Some people have old parents to care for. I've seen it all, okay? People who have hearts, leave. People who can see a few steps ahead, leave. And so far, my estimations, around 3 million Russians have left. What I was seeing in late September was exodus. I've never seen anything like that. There were thousands and thousands of men, and we all landed in Ujanda. It's in the middle of nowhere in Tajikistan, among high mountains. And there were like three or four locals in a plane full of Russian men, 30s and 40s. And we just got out of the airport, and we started walking towards the Uzbek border, basically, trying to get cabs and so forth.

58:49and the same situation, all of us. Some have returned because life is so much deeper and more colorful than any of our understanding of life. You know, there are different situations for everyone. Some parents got sick. Somebody died in Russia. Some people just couldn't handle it. It's too difficult to be away from families from Russia. Imagine you're living in Russia for like 45 years and you don't get how you like Russia, You like your job. You like, you know, you have friends. And all of a sudden, you have to live in 48 hours. Some people found it way too difficult. Some people couldn't find jobs and incomes.

59:31But I estimate 10%, 10 % to perhaps 15 % by most went back to Russia. Most of us who have stayed, we don't even think of going back. There's no way. No way. Ever. I can't say never, okay? But at this point, I don't want to ever go back to Russia for one simple reason. Many times I'm asked this question, you know, online by foreigners and by Russians. Well, what if the war ended tomorrow and things would go back to normal? Economy, okay, you know, would you go back? My answer is no, because even if everything is back to normal, the war is over, all of that. how can I live alongside people who supported the war, who went to kill Ukrainians, okay, who were supporting Vladimir Putin, who were doing these propaganda things.

1:00:32And the majority of Russians are pro-war, 80 % or so. I can't imagine going back and living among them. Neighbors, colleagues, you know, everyone, and people you see on the streets, people you deal with at stores. Teachers. Michael is going to school now, right? His teachers, I know that they supported the war and they would be teaching my son. Thank you, but no thank you. Even if you get paid in rubles, you can afford to take advantage of the fine products and services that support this show. We'll be right back. If you like this episode of the show, I invite you to do what other smart and considerate listeners do, which is take a moment and support our amazing sponsors, All the deals, discount codes, and ways to support the show are searchable and clickable over at jordanharbinger.com slash deals.

1:01:20If you can't remember the name of a sponsor, you can't find the code, go ahead and email me, jordan at jordanharbinger.com. I am more than happy to surface that code for you. Yes, it is that important that you support those who support the show. Now for the rest of my conversation with Konstantin Samoylov. It seems like Russia is trying to run both a marathon and a sprint at the same time, right? You've got sanctions on, and I think you covered this in a video, airline parts and specialty items from abroad, but also the pilots are getting hired by China. So you have the brain drain, but you also have the inability to replace things and the inability to innovate domestically enough to make, you can't just start making Boeing parts for your fleet of airplanes.

1:02:00It's not really going to happen. And even if you could, where are the engineers to build it? Where are the pilots to fly those planes? That's just really not going to happen. Russia's really burning the candle at both ends with this conflict. plus the sanctions, plus the brain drain. You also have quite an interesting perspective on the Russian military industrial complex. And I looked up a little bit about this because I was curious. This is the economist in you probably popping out. But if you're pumping tons of money, billions of dollars into the military industrial complex, and you're paying defense contractors, and the interest rate is 16 % because you've got currency issues, if I'm running a company there that makes furniture.

1:02:39I can't hire anyone. I can't get money to hire people and then say, I'm going to pay you as much as you're going to make at this defense contractor, because the interest rate is 16 % and the government is subsidizing those contractors. So anybody who does pretty much anything technical is going to go work for a missile and artillery company or a tank manufacturer, not for literally any other sector of the economy. As those military industrial complex salaries flood in, inflation is going to go up. and now your country's only producing artillery tanks drones i don't know whatever so in the missile those missiles they go blow up in ukraine they don't build a school in saint petersburg and educate a bunch of kids you're just building something that blows up and then you got to make another one and that to have most of your economic activity in that sector is not good you are right on everything that's what exactly what i say in my videos this is my analysis Do you know how much a rocket, one missile that is flown and blown up in Ukraine costs?

1:03:36No idea. Same amount as to build one school. Imagine, one school. So it is shooting a school into Ukraine and having it blow up in an apartment building. Every single missile costs as much,$19 million, as much as to build a school. Jeez. Yes. Wow. And you're right. They are producing things that are either blown up or blow up and kill people. and it does not do any good to the economy. It sucks in the labor force. And you are so right about it's called non-military economic sector. It just vacuums people from there. Just to give you an example, a metal worker who knows how to work metal starts at 300 ,000 rubles at a war factory.

1:04:24That's$3 ,200 per month. An accountant at a plant starts at 52 ,000 rubles, which is roughly 600 bucks. See the difference? Yeah. Everyone who can work, who is still inside Russia, they take to work at the military industrial complex enterprises. And a lot of people have left, 3 million people, mostly men, able men with hands and heads and education and experience have left. And that's a tremendous pressure to labor force and to the economy. Economy in general is under perfect storm right now. And even if the war is over, the perfect storm is to stay. That's what a lot of Russians don't understand.

1:05:11Russia has been destroyed, period. And it's not going to get better instantly after the war is over. The companies are not going to come back. The investors are not going to come back. You know, Russia is not going to get opened up from the inside or from the outside. So believe it or not, many Russians think that, oh, just wait until it's over. That's going to be fine again. You're right. I don't know, man. You're never going to, well, I should say not you. Russia is never going to recover from the demographic crisis. I did an episode about this 859 with Bradley Sherman, and he talks about just the math.

1:05:44If enough men are gone and or have died, Russia is just never going to actually recover from this. It's not really possible. I've thought about it a lot, and I absolutely, you're right, I absolutely agree. And funny how Russians react. They don't think about it. No. I have thought, I've talked to so many Russians inside Russia, and once I start asking them questions, what do you think of what's going on in Ukraine? About the economy, what do you think? have the prices? Do you think they're going to go up? They shut me off. I don't want to talk about that. Why? It's too painful. I don't watch the news.

1:06:22What do you think of this guy getting fired? No, I don't know. I don't watch the news. Let me tell you. No, no, no, no, please don't, because I don't want to know. I'm going to go crazy if I learn these things. They have built informational bubbles for themselves, and they live inside those bubbles, and they don't want to know what's really going on in the country. But let me tell you, they are in for a rude awakening one day. And that day is around the corner. Tell me why we had to do this interview in a hurry. You know, I was thinking like, okay, maybe we'll do something in September after my summer vacation that my wife is essentially making me take.

1:06:58And you told me that Tashkent, despite you not being in Russia anymore, Russia's coming to you, so to speak. They're bringing the party to you. Well, every time I talk about it, I smile. But I guess it's a very nervous reaction to this topic. Because if I wasn't smiling, I'd be crying. Right, exactly. That's very Russian of you, by the way. Yeah. I feel like there's a proverb in there somewhere. Yeah. When I fled, when I ran away, escaped, whatever, I felt fairly safe for some time. And then I started creating this community of Russians, Russian escapees. And at first there were a few people, but then it's just the numbers exploded because everyone wanted to be a part of a community, a support group.

1:07:48Everyone wanted to see people in the same situation, right? And my YouTube channel started growing big time. And about nine months ago, I was talking to a fellow, well, in the know of how Inside Russia works, right? the KGB and the politicians and all of that. And he told me an interesting thing. He said, look, when the war started, the Russian state didn't care about what was being said about it on the outside. All they cared was on the inside. What Russians were saying, that rather keeps Russians silent. That's why they were putting focus of their attention. the KGB, the Prosecutor General's Office, and all the Syloviki, they were focusing on the inside Russia, on Russians.

1:08:37But now the focus has shifted. Now RT, Russia today, is very active all over the world in different languages, in Arabic, in English, in French, in Spanish. And they are trying to paint a certain picture of Russia. Because now their ideology is they're trying to pretend that Russia is the pillar of light, you know, the beacon of hope for everyone who is for traditional values, okay, for Christianity and so forth. They're trying to put a very positive facade on Russia. And they do it through, you know, trying to reach to Western audience, to regular people. And here you are, telling the same audience who believes you different things.

1:09:26You telling the truth about Russia, how things are. And not only you telling, you giving examples, you showing videos, you know, you talk to people and so forth. And that just does not go well with Russia today for propaganda who's broadcasting in English. So Buddy, he said, don't kid yourself. You're on the radar now. Things really started happening a couple of months ago when Alexei Navalny was murdered. And, you know, we went for breakfast. We get together every morning, Russian Skype's at the Tashkent Breakfast Club. And we were at the breakfast discussing mourning Alexei Navalny's death. enough to us.

1:10:09He is a hero. And we made a decision. We said, let's go and honor Alexei Navalny by laying flowers to local monuments to political oppressions, political victims. Just briefly for people who don't know, Alexei Navalny was a presidential candidate in Russia, ended up being exiled, went back to Russia, got arrested after being poisoned by the KGB. He went to Germany for treatment, came back to Russia, got arrested, and ended up dying in prison even though he was young-ish and healthy because the regime essentially killed him. And so this made sort of international news. A lot of people followed this, but of course there are some people who are wondering who he is.

1:10:48So I just wanted to sort of... He's a very visible Russian who wanted change inside Russia and was an enemy of Putin and is now dead. It was a huge shock and we were just grieving, you know. So we went to a local monument to political victims or political oppressions. That's a monument like that in every Soviet city, because Soviet Union was all about political oppression. So we saw local co-ops. They didn't say anything. We laid flowers. We took pictures there. And all of a sudden, we saw operatives, Russian operatives. They started following us. At first, we didn't understand, but then it became obvious because we changed direction, they would change direction.

1:11:27They were following us. I came to one and I said, look, you're not part of a group. Why? He's like, well, if you don't mind, I'm just walking along with you. And then they started taking pictures of us. They started taking pictures of our cab license plates with two cabs, you know. And it was very scary. It was probably the scariest moment of my life. Knowing that I am on the radar is one thing, but when you see actually an agent in real life, that's a different ballgame altogether, you know. How did you know they were KGB other than the... Was it just that they were doing a clunky job following you around?

1:12:06They didn't even hide themselves. They were trying to intimidate us. They were taking pictures. Yeah. They were there. They started following us when we went, not just in Tashkent. All over the world they did that. In Russia they did that. At Navalny funeral they filmed everyone. 30 plus thousand people showed up and they started arresting people a couple weeks after who showed up. So it wasn't just unique to Tashkent. It just happened to us at the Tashkent Breakfast Club to be there, okay? And obviously it was them. They did not look Asian because Uzbek looked different from that. They spoke with Russian accent, Moscow accent.

1:12:45That's noticeable, you know, I can tell someone from Moscow. That was them. They took pictures of us, for goodness sake. Well, someone in your group tipped them off, right? They weren't just standing around by that statue that day. They could have. They could have been. They could have been because it was a big deal all over, you know. someone could have tipped us off as well. That I don't know, but it doesn't matter. You call it KGB, but it's not called that anymore, right? It's FSB? Yes. It's the same thing. Yeah, it's the same thing. I just want people to think we don't know what we're talking about because we're using the wrong.

1:13:14The name changed, but KGB sounds more dear to me. It's easier to say. Yeah, I agree. But then after that surveillance, I noticed once more one of those people not too far from my place, my home, freaked out. Let me tell you, it's a feeling when it's just this primal fear, just you can't breathe because you don't know what's going to happen to you. We have very odd people showing up at the breakfast club because our group is open for everyone. You know, we're just a bunch of Russians who left, of women, men, you know, with families, with children coming in. It's open to everyone who wants to join.

1:13:56The only requirements is we don't make money of people inside. We're just as free, absolutely. And only those who support peace are allowed. If you support war, don't even come close. And people usually who are members of Breakfast Club, they have relocated here. We started getting people, they say, we're just traveling, we're tourists, we're passing by. They show up and they start asking us questions. Oh, where do you live? Where do you kids go to school? Why do you need to know? You're just passing by. It's, you know, interesting. Some are more skilled. Some are less skilled, you know. Yeah, this is very clunky.

1:14:33It's like they either don't care or they're very unskilled at what they're doing. Some are very, very, like they become your friends. They come in and a few days, they show up every day and then some are good. Then there's a guy, he comes to me and he says, look, I have this great business opportunity. Back in Russia, I know people at the Ministry of Defense and there's big contracts. I know that you're a good guy, you know, I'm following you and I'm offering this great opportunity. Let's go in business together. What do I have to do? Well, not much, you know, just accept the offer. perhaps you'd need to go to Russia for sign the documents or something like that.

1:15:11It's not a big deal, you know. I'll sign them electronically, thank you. Thank you, you know. And then there's a girl comes in and she takes advances on me. She's like, I would like to you know, go have like a coffee with you and be like, just me and you. Like, wait a second. I'm a married man. If you want to have something to ask me about Tashkint or about, you know, anything, just ask here. Well, I'd rather do it in private. And then she starts flirting with me. She starts sending me messages in telegram. Okay. I'm a married man. I have five kids. Okay. I just showed that to my wife and say, Hey, honey, look, this is what's going on.

1:15:51So I say no to the girl. Okay. And then there are telephone calls once in a while, couple threads, couple people trying to get close. So we would like to meet with you, discuss something. And then, you know, Jordan, I can't say that they show their identification and say we're KGB, but you have this sometimes this gut feeling that things are not right. Well, yeah. Not well. Yeah. Okay. Last few months has been, how to say that, not boring. Yeah. Why are they doing this? Do you think they're trying to trap you into going back to Russia, get compromise on you so they can blackmail you? Is that the idea?

1:16:32With the guy about business, either getting compromise or trying to get me to Russia, the goal definitely was trying to get compromise to put me in a position of where she or they could exploit it later. But I think I'm not important enough for them to kill me. Because obviously, it takes a lot of resources and a lot of decisions, hard decisions, okay? A lot of planning and so forth. But I am big enough, so they're trying to neutralize me one way or another, okay? And the thing is, I'm getting bigger and I'm growing. Look, you know, I'm at your channel, you know, I'm reaching out so many more people and telling the truth about Russia.

1:17:14My channel is growing. And I think that I'm becoming a bigger and bigger danger to them. And I'm sure that I'm absolutely positive. I am a regular guest on a YouTube channel called Silicon Curtain, and another fellow there, American Admiral Ben Hodges, I think his name. So he's also a regular guest, and we're two most popular speakers there. Basically, we are watched the most. And I was talking to the host of the Silicon Curtain one day. We were doing an interview. He did an interview with Ben Hodges. And a couple of days later, biggest Russian propaganda outlet, Lenta.ru, well, one of the biggest, cited Ben Hodges' Silicon Curtain interview.

1:18:02And my interview was right next to his. Right. So they're watching. They saw me 100%. They cited him because he's a former general, he's like a well-known person. Okay. And then they misused his words, saying something that he didn't say. But that's not the point. The point was that they know. I'm on their radar for sure. And I'm growing a bigger and bigger target. What's your plan? I mean, you don't have to give the details because it's a plan to get away from the FSB agents that are maybe trying to hurt you and your family. But like, are you trying to get back to the United States? It's a lot harder for them to pull that stuff.

1:18:38It happens in the US, but it's harder because the FBI actually cares. I'm not sure how it is in Uzbekistan and former Soviet states. Let's put it this way. If they wanted to get me in Uzbekistan, if I was important enough for them, they would definitely get me in a matter of days. They just need an order in Moscow and they need resources allocated. That's it. I definitely am not feeling safe here whatsoever. And the more time goes, the less safer I feel. I'm afraid for myself, for my family. If I could make it to the USA, and that's not easy. Because right now, it's nearly impossible to get to the USA if you're Russian in a legal way.

1:19:21Illegally? Oh, yeah, no problem. You fly to Mexico, you know, and go over the border. But I'm not doing it illegally. I was going to say, yeah, we'll pick you up in Nuevo Laredo or whatever. Right. So I tried a humanitarian expediting and I was shut down by the US government. I don't know. I gave all the evidence. But I tell you, I don't know what to do. maybe other countries. But you see, I consider USA my second home. Unfortunately, I cannot get to that home, even with my kids being born in the USA and US citizens, not naturalized or anything, you know, it's really difficult to get there. So you caught me in a very interesting situation.

1:20:03I don't know what to do. Well, if there's anything I can do to help, let me know. You don't have to let me know right now. Obviously, you know, maybe we keep a little bit of secrecy. We're not going to broadcast it on the show, but you let me know. Thank you. And I will do what I can. I'm curious before you go, what do you make of the terror attack in Moscow recently? Can we talk about a little bit what that was? People might not even know about it. Sure, sure. You mean Krokos City Hall, right? The big arena, right, that got attacked by ISIS? Yeah, yeah. Okay, that's what it was called? I lived not too far from that place.

1:20:33I visited quite a few times. I visited a couple concerts where the shooting actually took place. My daughter, one of my daughters, danced professionally. She was in a couple competitions there. So I know the place quite well. I'm amazed because at every single event, the amount of security was absolutely insane. There was a police station right inside this big building, and it's a large police station. It was created just to keep that place secure. It had quite a few policemen, safe for guns, a cell for people to lock up and all that. And when the shooting started, it would take policemen a minute and a half to run to the site of shooting.

1:21:24Or if they walked casually, it would take them three minutes. Because the police station was right around the corner. There are a couple of police officers who were inside, but they were running away with everyone else. It was K-9 unit. Moreover, this KHQ of Rosguardia, which is riot police, like a couple miles from that place. So if that riot police unit got up and walked, it would take them 25 minutes of casually walking. It took them one hour. Oh, wow. By buses. Okay. Very odd. I believe that it was ISIS, but something is very, very fishy. It almost seemed like the law enforcement knew, and they didn't do anything.

1:22:10It wasn't them, but they knew, and they didn't. Let's put it this way. They ran the other way instead of protecting Russian people. But that's how Putin's Russia worked. The goal of police is not to protect people. The goal of police is to make sure that no one protests in the streets. If you are to protest in Moscow, that shuts you down in under a minute. But if someone is killing innocent people, it takes them one hour to make it to the scene. Yeah, that's what doesn't make sense to me. I wonder, because the Americans warned them, and then they said, oh, this is just some provocation. You're trying to make us look bad.

1:22:43It happened anyway. So they at least had a clue, and they should have been on higher alert, even if they didn't believe in it. So the FSB definitely shat the bed on that. But I wonder, is it maybe that there's too many resources focused on protecting the regime and not enough resources on intelligence and anti-terror? Because it's not like you have these police units. What is it called? Like OMOM or whatever it looks like on their jacket. It's Rosguardia. It's riot police. That's what I call it. Yeah. OK, so you got those guys. They do great when they try to kill random defectors or not those guys.

1:23:16But when they're killing defectors abroad, the FSB is on it. When they're killing protesters and arresting kids who are holding up a Ukrainian flag, they are on it, man. It's like clockwork. ISIS shows up in an arena and starts blasting. And like you said, they take an hour to show up. And they're basically putting out fires and collapsed walls and ceilings and mopping up blood at that point. I mean, it's just like, where the hell were you guys? So is it they're just focused on protecting the regime? Or like you said, I mean, it's not a false flag. ISIS released footage of them doing it. But it's bizarre how long it took.

1:23:50It seems like that would be bad. It would make Putin look bad. It makes him look weak if he can't protect his people. So I almost feel like it's just incompetence. But how did they get to that point? Plain and simple. It's not their job to protect people. Protecting people is putting themselves on the line, putting their life in danger. People aren't paying them. Putin is paying them. The regime is paying them. So they're loyal to the regime, and they take orders from the regime. Like you said, if there's a protest in Moscow, any other city, if you take a piece of paper completely white and put it in front of you, they arrest you from somewhere around under a minute.

1:24:32But then when the terrorists killing people, it takes them an hour. Because it's their job to take care of the protesters. It's not their job to keep people safe. people on their own. That's what I think. That's what the problem is in Russia. Man, this is, we could go on for a while. You have so much interesting content on your channel, which we'll link to in the show notes. Thank you. I hope you stay safe, man. Like I said, if there's anything I can do to help, let me know privately. And I want to thank you for coming on the show and telling your story because it's kind of not that safe for you.

1:25:04You're in this weird bind, right? Like you need to tell your story because that's the mission of the channel. But every time you do it, you're kind of digging the hole that you're in. You're just taking another shovel full of dirt out while you're standing in it. Jordan, I'm telling you, I'm not stopping. I keep on talking because I was silent for 15 years. I was looking at my country going down to hell and I wasn't doing anything about it. So even if I put myself in danger now, I keep on doing it. So there's no way they're going to shut me up. Even if I put myself into more danger, I think that's more important right now to tell the truth of what's really happening in Russia.

1:25:45If not me, then who? Konstantin, thanks so much, man. Really appreciate this. Thank you very much. It's an honor to be here. Thank you. You know, I've got some thoughts on this episode. But before I get into that, here's what you should check out next on the Jordan Harbinger Show. A lot of people hear the name Pussy Riot and they think, all right, what is this? You're just trying to get shock value. Can you tell us the beginning a little bit of what Pussy Riot is? When I was reading the book and you said you just made it up for a lecture, I was like, there's got to be more to it than that. No, seriously.

1:26:14Not really. No, seriously. They decided to punish us. They opened a criminal case and in two weeks after the performance, we were arrested. We knew how to hide from the cops and for a week, dozens of cops were looking for us. And when they caught us, finally, they were so happy. Making them look like fools. It's our profession. How does it feel to have these world leaders who are in these private chambers with their tea and their bodyguards and you're sitting in a Russian prison and they're like, these 22 year old women, they're, they're screwing my world up, man. Gotta do something about this.

1:26:49Look at how bad they are. I was really happy that Putin is in troubles because of us, because they definitely didn't expect anything like that. My mother thinks that I need to immigrate Iran immediately. Yeah, you still live in Russia. I can't even believe it. You wrote, the future has never seemed so full of and rich and wonderful possibilities as when I was in a labor camp and literally had nothing but dreams. What gives you the strength to go forward when you're worried about, are they going to try to blind me? Are they going to try to beat me up? I mean, they were highly abusive to you while you were behind bars.

1:27:23I just prefer not to think about it. For more from Pussy Riot and world-renowned artist Nadia Tolokonikova and her time in Russian prison, and of course their crusade against Vladimir Putin's regime, check out episode 118 on The Jordan Harbinger Show. One thing I found really funny, I don't think all this made it to the show, but there are a lot of knockoff places in Russia. So there's a McDonald's knockoff, there's an Ikea knockoff. The gross slash funny thing about the McDonald's knockoff is it's called Tasty Period. Like, tasty, period. But, you know, Tasty Period, it's just got one of the most unfortunate names I think I've ever heard.

1:28:01I'm guessing it just doesn't translate well, but yikes. That's got to only be a play on words in English, right? In Russian, it's probably more like Tasty, full stop. Hope you all enjoyed that. I think he's a great storyteller with an interesting path. All Things Constantine will be in the show notes at jordanharbinger.com. advertisers, deals, discount codes, ways to support the show all at jordanharbinger.com slash deals. Please consider supporting those who support the show. Don't forget about six minute networking as well. That's over at six minute networking.com. I'm at Jordan Harbinger on Twitter and Instagram.

1:28:33You can also connect with me on LinkedIn. This show is created in association with podcast one. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Robert Fogerty, Ian Baird, and Gabriel Mizrahi. Remember, we rise by lifting others. The fee for the show is you share it with friends when you find something useful or interesting. The greatest compliment you can give us is to share the show with those you care about. So if you know somebody who's interested in a little bit of a look inside Russia and perhaps a different Russian perspective, definitely share this episode with them. In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn.

1:29:01And we'll see you next time.

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