1032: Sarah Hill | How Birth Control Rewires Women's Brains Part Two

25:07So it like causes our brain to just kind of like this. And it's very relaxing. Like the progestins and hormonal birth control, because they're made out of testosterone, usually, they don't get metabolized on the same pathway, but you don't release allopregnanolone. women who are using birth control, they have significantly lower levels of allopregnanolone. And so their brain is probably not able to chill itself out as much. And obviously, when you get that, you can get major anxiety and anxiety that's unrequited. Like if you're feeling anxious all the time and can't solve it, that leads to depression.

25:39I mean, anxiety and depression are about, you know, two sides of the same coin. What about oxytocin signaling? Is that Left alone, I think I've read this in your book, but it could be from another article. There were some women that had trouble recognizing expressions in babies. And that was a little confusing because if you've had a baby, right, you're not on birth control. So does that effect stick around after you've stopped taking the pill? Is that what I'm understanding? No. Well, so we don't know yet about that. But what we do know is that women who are on it, they seem to have dysregulated oxytocin signaling.

26:12And so they've studied this a couple of different ways. is they've done it where they've done internasal oxytocin and then just seeing whether or not the brain's pleasure pathways light up in response to seeing faces of people that they love, which is generally what happens when oxytocin is on the scene. If you like see a picture of like your wife or your children, your pleasure centers in your brain will light up and it'll be like, yay, it's people I love. What they found is that for women who are on birth control that you don't get that. So you give them some oxytocin and their brain is just like, they just see it as just another person.

26:43Yeah. And which is really kind of scary and scary and sad. Well, yeah, it is scary and sad. And it also like, I know for me, and we talked about this a little bit last time, but my six, I think it was a six week visit after I have both of my kids, they were like, all right, what are you doing for birth control? You know, what are you doing for birth control? And I'm like, well, I'm, you know, I'm breastfeeding. And they're like, well, that's not going to cut it. Cause some women, obviously when they breastfeed, which is true, but I, I was not. And I know I was not because I'm in tune with my cycle.

27:13But I mean, they tried to put me on progestin-only birth control pills while I was breastfeeding because apparently it doesn't get in the milk, which I don't know that I believe. But better than pregnancy, I will say like I would not have wanted to have another baby right after the baby, but I probably would have done something different. But I wasn't ovulating, so I didn't have to worry about it. But yeah, anyway, so when you think about that, when there's a lot of women who are being put on this at their six-week appointment, when those attachment things are still happening with mothers and children.

27:41And, you know, a lot of women, like if they're not breastfeeding, like, and they know it, like at the hospital where they're like, I'm not breastfeeding, their doctor will put them on birth control right away. Which again, when you think about the importance of oxytocin to bonding with your infant and all that sort of thing, and there hasn't been any research that's done on this particular issue. So like, I have not seen a single study that's looked at hormonal birth control use and bonding to offspring. But the research that I've seen in adult women, like looking at other attachment figures of partners and so on, suggests that there could be some disruption there.

28:16And again, we don't know the answer to it because nobody's really asking their research questions. Jeez. It's like, we're just, you know, I feel like for the last however many years, with 60 years, we've been doing this experiment on women that they didn't even know that they had consented to. Right. They're not recording the results necessarily. Yeah. Yeah. We're not even necessarily recording the results. So it's like, we don't, you know, when you look at how much society has changed in the last 60 years, the differences that we get in rates of problems with mental health and all of these other things, it's like, we have absolutely no idea because our society has changed so quickly in the last 60 years.

28:53But like, it would be surprising to me if there weren't some of the differences that we see in things like risk for mental health and increase in postpartum depression and that sort of thing that aren't impacted in some way by our use of hormones. Yeah. Like everyone wants to blame participation trophies or something. And it's like, well, maybe it's the fact that we've been taking, I don't even know what the percentage is, a huge number, millions and million, tens of millions of women taking this hormone from an early age. I don't know. I mean, that seems more likely than TikTok being the root of all, not that I'm a fan of TikTok either.

29:28It seems more likely that that's causing the problem than participation trophies or cell phones. Right, right. Well, I mean, I think it's, you know, and obviously it's a combination of all these different things. Yeah. But I mean, when you look at the risk of mental health problems in young women, I just can't help but think that hormonal birth control isn't a really important player in this conversation because you add that to, you know, so we already know that young girls when they're on it are at a much higher risk of developing depression than adult women, probably just by virtue of the fact that their brain is still developing and that their developing brain just can't handle that shutdown of their ovaries because I'm sure that it causes a wider spread sort of set of changes than we get in adult women.

30:13But you take that and then you add to it social media and all these other things. I mean, it's just like a perfect storm of environmental mental influences that are not great for mental health for young girls. It seems like if women go off the pill, they should tell people around them to look for signs of depression, right? Because when you're experiencing it, you just believe, you believe that there's a reason for it. Your mind's going to rationalize it. Oh, exams are really awful. My boyfriend's being kind of a jerk. And like, I just haven't hung out that much with my friends. And I don't know what I'm going to do with my major.

30:47And it's like, well, that's all maybe true. But the truth is, you're also going through hormonal hell and you don't know about it because you stopped taking the pill or whatever. We just think our life's crappy. Yeah, starting or stopping. I think that it's so important that people know about the possibility of effects that can happen from having hormonal changes in that way. So that way we have people looking out for us. Because the fact of the matter is, as you were saying, it's like our brain tells itself stories about what's going on all the time. I mean, the left half of our brain, which is like the communication center, is really just a spin doctor.

31:19just making up stories about why we do things, you know, it's like, Oh, well, you know, I must be thirsty because I'm drinking water. You know, it's like, it just tells the stories. And like you said, it's like, if we have depression from that's creeping in for some reason, including, you know, hormonal birth control, like we just think like, gosh, like nobody likes me, like, my friends all seem to hate me now, like, oh, or like, gosh, my job just sucks. Like it used to be so much better than what it is now. Yeah. And we come up with all these stories about why everything is happening. It must be my new manager, but maybe it's not.

31:52Maybe that's not the only reason. Right, exactly. And I think especially, you know, when we were talking about these young girls, because they are the ones who are overwhelmingly affected by the mental health side effects, there should always be somebody who's looking out for them. I'm concerned about, you know, because now we have this O-Pill, right, this over-the-counter birth control that's going to be available to women. I'm concerned about that for that reason. So on the one hand, like, I love that we're trying to increase access to products to help women regulate their fertility, particularly in this day and age when, you know, women's reproductive health is under fire.

32:23Like on the one hand, I'm happy that, okay, we're increasing access. I feel good about that. I don't feel good about women being able to go on birth control and especially this one. And the reason I don't like this one is it's a progestin only drug, which is safer than a combination product. So, you know, when you're talking about birth control, you have progestin only drugs, which only have a progestin, that synthetic progesterone. And then you have what are known as the combination products, which most birth controls are, like most pills are, where you have progestin and then you also have some estrogen.

32:54And the estrogen piece of it is a little bit more dangerous in terms of physical health. So just estrogen, for example, is thrombotic. So it's what's known for increasing heart attack risk and stroke risk when you have the pill. And so they've made this over-the-counter product progestin only because it doesn't have all of those risks because progestins don't have that risk. You don't have an increased risk of heart attack or stroke. And so that's why they made this product the one that's available over the counter because it's like safer for physical health. But for mental health, it is absolute trash.

33:27And the reason, I mean, the reason that most birth control pills are combination products is because the estrogen piece of it kind of takes the edge off how terrible you feel with this progestin. Interesting. Yeah. And so progestin only products are some of the biggest offenders when it comes to the things that women hate the most about birth control, weight gain and mood changes. Yeah. So that's the one that's going to be available over the counter. And I just, I don't like the idea of women or girls getting access to these products. Nobody knows that they're on them. Right. I was going to say their parents don't know.

34:02That's why they chose it. Yeah, I know. Nobody knows to look out for them. And they're going on something that can increase their risk of depression by 300%. Yeah, that's terrifying. fine. It's just like, it's not good. I really worry about that. So I've got kind of mixed feelings about the over-the-counter birth control. I like the spirit behind it. I would like to see it implemented in a way that makes sure that women are being taken care of. Because I do like that, you know, women are able to access it and they're, you know, without, and they don't have to worry about their parents, if they're going to be having sex, because I think that that's important.

34:34But then on the other hand, it's like, how can we still look out for these girls and make sure that they're okay. I could not agree more. I mean, I'm doing this episode, this double episode, because I want women and those of us that love them to stop thinking that something is wrong with them when maybe there's something wrong with their medication. It seems like the access to it over the counter, access is always better. However, yeah, we don't, we don't, I don't, it's a nightmare scenario that young girls who are already under fire from TikTok and Instagram screwing with their mental health are now maybe going to take something that is going to make that worse.

35:09They're just being dealt a really bad hand this decade or so. It's awful. What do you think of the latest politicizing of birth control? I know we touched on that a little bit last time, but if you search for birth control on social media, there is just a cascade of misleading videos. And it's like, if you take this, you're going to get fat, possible. But other people are like, oh, it'll make you infertile, which is not great. And you see these testimonials online from health influencers, if you can call them that. And they're these are not doctors. These are just like random people that are stating birth control can make you infertile.

35:48And they're not saying that it happens to one in every million people who take it and they have a preexisting condition. They're making it seem like it's a dice roll. If you take birth control pills that you're going to end up infertile. And they're also looping IUDs in with like the pill and the NuvaRing and all that stuff, just like it's one monolithic thing. Right. Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of, there's a lot of bad information, I think on both sides. Like on the one hand, like the sort of prevailing paradigm for so long has just been birth control pills. Once, you know, it's like everybody take the pill and everybody's going to, and just take it and just shut up and don't worry about the side effects because who cares and they're just fine and then on the other hand you know the other extreme end you have exactly what you're talking about you have a lot of health influencers who don't know and never read a research paper and don't you know have a degree of any type and you don't need to have a degree to be able to understand science but I have no background in science and you also have to try to understand science yeah well right and you also have to like say like factual things one would hope yes and um saying things like like you're saying like with the fertility issue like you know that birth control makes you infertile which it absolutely does not and in fact um there's research that shows that that that there is a it's slower to get pregnant like when you have discontinued birth control compared to not but by like two weeks on average i see you know people who are using it that's good to know and not, I mean, it's just really not the long-term effects on fertility or except that when women are on it, it allows them to postpone childbearing.

37:24And so what you get is you get some women who are infertile because they waited until they were 35 to start having children. I see. So they are like, oh, my birth control made me infertile. It's like, no, actually female fertility peaks at 25 and it's really horrible. It's a cruel biological fact, but it's a fact nonetheless. And so it's kind of where we're at. I think that it is very difficult to have conversations about birth control without, it always seems like it's one thing or the other, like birth control is evil and it's going to make you grow a tail, you know, which isn't true. And then it's like birth control is a sacrosanct and how dare you say that it can, you know, do this or that or the other thing.

38:03It's like, people don't like to hold onto contradictory information. you know it's like it causes dissonance where it does you know black and white thinking is a lot easier for sure yeah i mean it totally where it's like okay well so the birth control pill is really important for women and we need to make sure that women are able to have access to it at the same time it is imperfect and it can potentially be linked with you know different types of side effects that you should look out for and they're not one size fits all and everybody's going to respond a little bit differently and so it's just important that you know that these things are possible so you know what to look out for them.

38:36And so then it's like everybody wants to say like, well, so are you for it or against it? And I'm like, neither. Right. For it in certain circumstances. Yeah. No, that's not what we want to hear. It's like, I am for you having all the information that you need to be able to make the decision that's right for you. Because what is the right decision for you might not be the same decision that's right for me. And the decision that's right for you right now might not be the same decision that's right for you in five years. it might not be the same decision that's right for you tomorrow. I mean, it's like all of us, our circumstances change.

39:05And it's like, we're all smart enough to be able to take all the information in about what range of effects, you know, the benefits and also the potential drawbacks, and then make decisions about what's right for us based on at this point in my life, like, so for example, if you are a woman, like, so I'm going to think back to like 20 year old Sarah, you know, 20 year old Sarah, when she is not in a relationship and is doing things like dating and choosing partners and figuring out her career goals and that sort of thing. 20-year-old Sarah does not need to be on hormonal birth control when she's not in a relationship because she's not getting pregnant anyway.

39:40And she may as well be having her brain in the absence of these other hormones, you know, trying to figure out who she is and what makes her happy and what job makes her happy and what kinds of partners she's attracted to and so on and so forth. 20-year-old plus six months Sarah who's in a relationship and also getting a college degree and needs to not get pregnant in order to finish those things. For her, it might make the right decision to be on hormonal birth control because it's going to work. And so at that point, I make a different set of trade-offs. And each one of us, you know, it's like you have to kind of weigh what the costs and benefits are, and it's always going to be a little bit dynamic.

40:14And I think that we are smart enough to have the conversation that here is this drug that's been incredibly pivotal in terms of moving women forward politically, economically, and so on, but is also imperfect, and it's something that women have absolutely, I mean, we should absolutely exercise caution with, especially with young girls. And when the benefits aren't potentially great enough to outweigh the risks, then we need to have real conversations about whether or not it even makes sense. Because this off-label use of birth control for things like skin and cramps and that sort of thing for teenagers, like, I don't even know whether that's good medical practice.

40:50I feel like that should be a conversation that's being had among those in the healthcare industry is like, is this good practice at all for this group of women? Because I don't know that those benefits, is there an acne clearance benefit that's so great as to outweigh the risk of long-term brain problems? I don't think so. What about IUDs, intrauterine devices? Do those have a hormonal component or is it just a metal object in your uterus? I don't even know. Yeah, so there's two different types. There is the metal device, which is the copper IUD, and that one does not have any hormones. And so those women cycle just like regular, you know, naturally cycling women.

41:34And the fertility regulation effect comes from the effect that you get a little bit of an inflammatory event that's going on in the uterus from the little object, and that prevents implantation. And so that's how you get pregnancy prevention with that. The hormonal IUD is a little bit of a tricky device and it has hormones and the hormones are getting released. And whenever you have hormones getting released in the body, it is a systemic effect. So a lot of times you'll hear doctors say that the hormonal IUD acts locally. That doesn't make sense. It's in your blood. Yeah, I know. There's no such thing.

42:10So there's no such thing as a local. Go back to medical school. Well, I know. I mean, honestly, like, I think that if you ask the doctor to repeat that, I'm like, can you repeat that back slowly? Like, listen to what you're saying. I think that they'd be horrified that that ever even came out of their mouth because it's impossible. And so what you get, because it has low doses of hormones, these hormones will still, because they're getting in the blood, they still reach the brain. And they're often at a high enough level that they shut down ovulation just the same way all other hormonal birth control does.

42:39So for example, when you take the pill, those progestins tell your brain, don't ovulate. And that's why you don't ovulate. and the same thing with the hormonal iud is when that progestin reaches your brain it's like hey don't ovulate guys but it is a really low dose of hormone and so what happens is over time women oftentimes will begin ovulating again and then the device is working in the same way as the copper iud because it's also because it's in the you know in the uterus it's like causing an inflammatory event because the uterus is like what the fuck is this right yeah there's a paper clip in here yeah it's Like do not implant an embryo.

43:15Like this is terrible timing, guys. Don't know what this is. So what's interesting is that women on the hormonal IUD, some of them are ovulating. Some of them are not ovulating. Some of them ovulated the entire time they were on it. Some of them never ovulate. And so it's a really heterogeneous group of women. So here's the question I have, and you probably don't have the answer to this, but I'm going to ask you anyway. Ask me, yes, the expert over here on women giving birth. Are you ready for this? So the hormonal IUD, they put this hormone in there, right? And it shuts down ovulation. Like I said, 80 % of the women who use it for the first year, they're not ovulating because it's shutting down their brain access.

43:52But by five years, about 80 % of women are ovulating. So and it still works. Okay. So it seems to be working primarily through the same mechanism, which is that, oh, no, there's a paperclip in here that the other IUD works. So then it's like, why put hormones in there at all? I wonder if there's a pill that I can take that would have y 'all tip me more, or maybe there's a pill that will get you to support the fine products and services that support this show. We'll be right back. If you like this episode of the show, I invite you to do what other smart and considerate listeners do, which is take a moment and support our amazing sponsors.

44:25All the deals, discount codes, and ways to support the show are searchable and clickable over at jordanharbinger.com. If you can't remember the name of the sponsor, you can't find the code, you're not sure. If there is a code, email me, jordan at jordanharbinger.com. I am happy to service that code for you. It is that important that you support those who support the show. Now for the rest of my conversation with Dr. Sarah Hill. My question is, why do you need the other one that has the side effects if the other one works? I don't understand. Although my mom's friend had a child and he was born holding that IUD like he was won an Emmy Award.

44:56So there is that. So maybe it's because it's less effective because I was like... I mean, I don't know. But I do know that if you're holding like you just won an Oscar, it probably didn't work at that point. It makes me have like – and I don't have a lot of these moments because I'm a pretty practical thinker. But I'm like they're just looking to sell their drugs. They just like want to put the drug in and it's not necessary. And they just put it in there because – It's probably 50 times more expensive because it has the drug. Yeah, because it has the drug and the drug is what was patented, not the device.

45:30I don't know if IUDs, I mean, is it all medical things that go into the generic or is it just drugs? It might just be drugs that the patent sort of expires after 15 years. That's an interesting question. You know, it's an interesting question. I don't know the answer to that, but we'll see. You know, if patents do expire on those types of devices in the same way that it does on regular medication, then my guess is they're going to stop prescribing the hormonal IUD as much as they do now because the reason that it's been so hot is because it's still under patent. And so drug companies are making a shitload of money off of it.

46:00And so it really gets pushed by the drug companies. After I learned the magnitude of women who are not ovulating on it for, you know, after a couple of years, I'm like, then why have it? Like, why are the hormones in there at all? Yeah, that doesn't make any sense. And it's not necessary. I don't think it's necessary. We've seen a lot of media on the left and the right, like you said, one side will say one thing is an extreme and the other side will say the other thing is an extreme. There's almost like this weird agenda on each side. Like one side doesn't want birth control to be fallible because they don't want people to stop taking it because it limits the new liberties that women have.

46:37But then you'll see right-leaning media that's like, it's going to make you infertile. Some right-leaning media has said that women have been silenced and shamed by legacy media, the pharmaceutical industry, and in many cases by their own doctors who sort of gaslight them about their experiences with hormonal birth control. And that actually sounds pretty reasonable if you have doctors telling people that the IUD is only local and you don't have to worry about it or or like it can't possibly do these things when we know now that it can. I mean, it seems like there's an element of truth to some of what each side is saying, which makes this thing all the more frustrating and irritating to deal with.

47:13Right. Well, yeah, I mean, yeah, because I don't think that it I don't think it should be politicized. I think that this is just like way too important. It is. Yeah, I think that it's something you know what I mean? That it's like everybody, we should all agree that this is an important issue. And I think we should all agree that, and I shouldn't even say agree, we should all recognize that women have been mishandled by medicine for a very long time. And that the birth control pill in a lot of ways is no exception to this. And not that the birth control pill is evil and make you grow a tail and you shouldn't be on it and doctors have been poisoning women.

47:44But rather that, you know, I think for a really long time, doctors weren't listening to women when they were talking about like the seriousness of their side effects. And I also think that there is a tendency to trivialize the types of side effects that we have from the pill. Because, you know, when you look at some of the most, like the most frequently occurring side effects, it's things like depression, like a complete absence of sex drive. And doctors are like, oh, yeah, you know, well, a little bit of, and it's like, that's a person's life. You know, it's like, as far as the medical profession is concerned, it seems, unless it causes cancer or gives you a heart attack, you're fine it's fine right if it doesn't kill you then it's just a minor thing like oh you'll be fine just buy some sexy underwear yeah just rub some dirt in it yeah yeah watch cinemax yeah and so i i think that it's too important to be politicized and i and i think that we can and again it's like part of this the nuance of the conversation is the conversation is is an incredibly important tool for women like having birth control is incredibly important for women and we all need to be champions of making sure that women have access to this.

48:48We also need to be sure that women are being championed for access to information about what they're being put on and having doctors that are going to be willing to listen to them and their range of experiences. The fact of the matter is because hormones affect, I mean, there are receptors for sex hormones on almost every cell in the female body just simply because pregnancy requires almost every system that we have to have a workaround. Yeah, row in the same direction or shut off. Right, exactly. And so it's like all of our cells are very sensitive to sex hormones because they have to kind of do something special depending on what our sex hormones are doing.

49:24And so when you take a drug that changes this, you know, it causes these big sweeping changes in the body, it's going to be very idiosyncratic. I mean, there's going to be a lot going on and everybody's body responds to things a little bit differently. And all of us has different pre-existing levels of hormones and all of us have different ability to adapt to hormonal changes. And all of us have different ways of metabolizing hormones. And so there's all these different ways that women differ from one another. We're all given these drugs and there's like a hundred different variations of hormonal birth control.

49:55So there's all these different drugs. And then, you know, they do a study where they compare a group of women who's on the pill or whatever to a group of naturally cycling women. And they don't find average differences between the group and they say, Oh, look, no side effects. But it turns out that when you look at the nuances of the data, oftentimes what you get is you get these huge differences among individual women in the birth control group. But when you average them all together, it just looks like nothing happened. Oh, that's interesting. Just to give you an example of this, there was a study that was published not that long ago, looking at weight changes, which is something that many women report.

50:28They're like, I'm gaining weight on the pill. And the doctor's like, no, you're not, because there's no differences in weight gain among women who are on the pill and hospital. You're just eating too much and you don't notice it. eating too much. Yeah, exactly. You're just getting lazy or whatever terrible thing that they're saying to women. But when you look at the actual research studies, what you find, if you divide up the weight changes among heavier women and lighter women, what you find is that the heavier women in the sample who were on the pill, they lost weight and the lighter women gained weight.

50:58And so when you put all these women together and you just average their weight changes at zero. Right. Okay. But what you get are real differences that matter to women. And for some women, it's going to make them very happy. And for other women, it's gonna make them very unhappy. And instead, you just have the doctor say, Oh, well, no differences. Because you know, we looked at these two groups. It's like, the world is so much more complex than you can do like really simple statistics, like they're oftentimes used in a lot of biomedical research, it's just like not going to capture the nuanced way that our bodies respond to medication.

51:30Yeah, they've got to show the absolute, what is it called? It's been a while since we've been in math class, absolute value, whether it's plus or minus, it doesn't matter. And so weight change of up to 15 pounds or 25 pounds or whatever it is, is more accurate than weight gain of X. Oh, weight gain of X, zero. Perfect. Well, that's, yeah, like you said, if somebody loses 10 pounds and the other person in the group gains 10 pounds, the weight change is zero. It's zero. Oh, man. And that's scary because I'm not an average. I'm the person taking this particular medication. Maybe not the pill in this case, but that's really scary.

52:03I would want the complete info. This is so fascinating. I mean, like I said, I needed another hour to get through everything. I thought I and I've got notes where I'm just like, OK, I'm going to cover it in the show clothes because there's so much here. I think it's really interesting. I think from a guy's perspective, I'm very fortunate that I can look at this and just be interested in the science. But if I'm a woman listening to this, I've got stuff I've got to do if I'm on that pill or thinking about taking that pill. There's action that needs to be taken in one direction or another, even if that action is just doing research and reading your book and maybe rewinding to the beginning of this if I'm jogging and not really paying attention because there's so much in here.

52:41And it's just, it's kind of scary because if the birth control pill is this complex, probably every other medication that we take is really this complex. It's just not been around for 60 years, studied a bunch and affect maybe our personality as much, but it doesn't make sense that the pill is more complex than other medication that we're taking, like, I don't know, Ozempic or whatever. Right. Yeah. It's going to be really interesting to see how all of that unfolds as well. I think in some ways, hormones are kind of uniquely systemic for women, just again, just because of how many cells have to sort of march in a different direction in response to pregnancy.

53:19But I think like with things like GLP, for example, like with those MPIC, I mean, that's something that helps to regulate metabolism and glucose and all of that affects the whole engine of the body. And so that one may end up being like really sort of widespread as well. I've always wondered this with all of these psychotropic medications that they're putting folks on, especially kids like my kids. I mean, I'm telling you, so my kids are both high school age and half of their peers are on drugs of some sort for psychotropic medication. And so both my kids are like Ritalin or something. Yeah, like that or something for depression or something for anxiety or something for I mean, it's kind of what happens when you have, I don't know, I've got my own hypothesis we can talk about.

53:59I was gonna say, private school, it feels like the parents are just like, you know what, I don't really want a parent. And I look not that only private schools do that. Right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm just noticing a trend. Right. But I mean, honestly though but so they're always like well i feel like i need to and i'm like you aren't going at anything like i'm not letting a thing touch your brain other than like vitamin d so your vitamin d supplement and that's it yeah you know can have flintstones vitamins that's it teenagers nobody studies them and they're such a vulnerable group right because their brains are developing still and they're a pain in the ass and so everybody wants to give them drugs to try to get them to you know do something different because they're such a pain in the ass right We just have to roll with it.

54:40You know, we have to learn to put up with that. They're just toddlers that can drive. That's true. Exactly. It's frustrating. Man, I will say there's a whole section in your book about birth as well, or different sections talk about this. Do you ever just wish y 'all laid eggs? It might be a lot easier. I feel like it would have been a lot easier that way. Probably would be a lot easier that way. It probably would be a lot easier that way. I'd love to say some like, you know, sweet things about pregnancy being this amazing experience. And it kind of was, but I don't know that the benefit of all that amazingness is would like outweigh the amazingness of just being able to lay an egg and have somebody else sit on it for a little while.

55:18You probably couldn't feel that kicking or anything, but yeah, that's, you're right. The trade-off is there. It's like, I might give that up to be able to just like take a break from it for a little bit. That's right. That's true. Thank you so much for coming on the show. Really appreciate this. Again, so fascinating all around. Great. Thanks so much for having me. You're about to hear a preview of the Jordan Harbinger show with North Korean defector Yeonmi Park. In North Korea, birds and mice can hear you whisper. It's the only place that modernity hasn't touched. 90-70 % North Korean roads are not paved.

55:53In the hospital, they use one needle to inject everybody. It's very common to have a surgery without painkiller. The worst torture is being starved. And before you die from starvation, you hallucinate. You lose your mind. So some mothers eat their children because they thought their children were dogs. Because they go crazy when you don't eat. And then they wake up and they're like, what happened to my child? If somebody's challenging the party ideology, they don't just go after killing you or your son or your grandma. They really go after a generation, like get rid of the entire clan. That's how they prevent the revolution.

56:30And that's how they became like Almighty God. Every front newspaper in North Korea is a Kim's photo. So sometimes you do not see the front page and you rip it. That's how you get executed. How do they prepare you to escape? Pray and fasting. You need a miracle to do it because you are going to go across the Gobi Desert into Mongolia from China in the minus 40 degrees. That's why they make you pray. They just give you a compass. Why don't you walk, follow the north and the west, and then cross eight wire fences, and hopefully that's going to be Mongolia. Very unique thing with North Koreans. Whenever you ask them, in their dream is always North Korea.

57:09You never escape in your subconscious. You're there forever. Every night, every night I'm there. Like, nobody escapes in your dream. To hear more about the bizarre mind games that generations of North Koreans have had to endure under the current regime, check out episode 578 and 579 of The Jordan Harbinger Show. What a marathon. In the end, the pill is more good than bad, but it's never as simple as take it and forget it when it comes to our bodies. I find it fascinating that the pill might make it hard to pick a partner. Guys might look good on paper, but you lack chemistry. And the pill, it blunts this instinct and keeps women from flagging mates.

57:46There's depression because the brain doesn't feel as excited about people or opportunities as it did before. 50 % increased risk of depression, especially in younger women. So these are serious side effects that could potentially happen and do happen to a few people that you need to pay attention to. You need to take breaks from the pill so you get to know yourself off of it, especially when you're making big decisions or changes, marriage, career, etc. And if you're not having sex and you don't have any other medical reason to be on it, talk to your doctor about getting off of the pill. I know a lot of social media influencers are recommending natural alternatives like timing sex to menstrual cycles, which is a less effective birth control method that doctors, of course, warn could result in unwanted pregnancies in a country where abortion is now banned or restricted in nearly half the states.

58:32And I know that a lot of you disagree with whatever decision, but it doesn't matter what you think about abortion. Right, left, center. I think we can all get behind not increasing unwanted pregnancies. That is a good thing, right? Come on, folks. Let's at least agree on that. distrust among women of color in terms of the medical community has just has them trusting influencers a lot more which is really unfortunate younger gen z folks are more likely to trust random nobodies online because of poor media literacy and health education and many young women are turning to these quote-unquote natural methods which can have an up to 23 percent failure rate this is not good so while we might have to pay attention to what goes on in our bodies with the pill we also have to pay attention to the fact that you might have a kid and not be able to do anything about it, which is horrible, depending on where you are in your life.

59:17The algorithms behind TikTok, YouTube, and Instagram, they are designed to surface content similar to what viewers have already watched, which experts say leads viewers to believe that more people suffer complications than they actually do in reality. Now, all that said, all forms of medication, including hormonal birth control, can have side effects. Some are rare but serious. Birth control pills that contain estrogen, they can lead to blood clots and strokes. IUDs can perforate the uterine wall. So talk to your doctor, pay attention to this stuff. Don't stay on it for a zillion years. I care about y 'all and we should care about each other.

59:47Folks, share this with every woman in your life, any doctor that treats women, anyone in a relationship, anyone who wants to be in one. Basically share this with everybody. I think this stuff is fascinating, but it is super, super important as well. All things Dr. Sarah Hill will be in the show notes at jordanharbinger.com. Advertisers, deals, discount codes, and ways to support this show all at jordanharbinger.com slash deals. Please consider supporting those who support the show. Also, our newsletter, We Bit Wiser, a practical bit every Wednesday. The idea is it gives you something specific, something that'll have an immediate impact on your decisions, your psychology, your relationships in under two minutes a week.

1:00:21If you haven't signed up yet, I invite you to come check it out. It is a great companion to the show. JordanHarbinger.com slash news is where you can find it. Don't forget about 6-Minute Networking over at 6MinuteNetworking.com. I'm at JordanHarbinger on both Twitter and Instagram. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn in the show. Hey, it's created in association with podcast one. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Robert Fogerty, Ian Baird, and Gabriel Mizrahi. Remember, we rise by lifting others. The fee for the show is you share it with friends when you find something useful or interesting.

1:00:50The greatest compliment you can give us is to share the show with those you care about. So if you know somebody who has a body or is related to somebody who has one, and they might put this stuff in it, or they're interested in interesting things. I know that's vague, but this episode is warrants that. I'm telling you, this stuff is super freaking interesting. And if you don't agree, you wouldn't have made it this far. Share it with them. Share this far and wide. In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn. And we'll see you next time. This episode is sponsored in part by the Something You Should Know podcast.

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1:01:47They've got thousands of five-star reviews, but do you even need that? I'm recommending it. You don't need other people's opinion, right, at this point, I would hope. Anyway, give it a listen. Just search for something you should know wherever you get your podcasts. Look for the bright yellow light bulb and start listening to something you should know.