1055: Is Nephew Forever Lost for Denying Holocaust? | Feedback Friday

22:49So yes, I would probably tell the new girlfriend to beware. And the way I would do it is I would reach out, ideally over the phone if you can. What you don't want is a paper trail that she can save for three months and then forward to him when she's, you know, decides to. Or that he could find on her computer or phone. Right, exactly. You want to just say, hey, I'm so-and-so, I'm this dude's ex-wife, I realize this message is coming out of the blue, it might be a little jarring and unsettling to receive, but I felt it important to get in touch with you, I just want you to know I'm reaching out in a spirit of genuine love and concern.

23:19When this dude and I were together, he abused me, he cheated on me, he lied to me, and you can include a very brief list, brief list of the things he did in here. I had no idea who was that guy when we got together, and I had to work very hard to leave that relationship safely. Looking back, I wish that one of his exes who went through the exact same things I did, and there are many of us, had reached out to me when we got together. So I'm taking a chance and giving you the information I wish I had before I went through hell. Please know that I am not trying to insert myself into your life or stir the pot or tell you what to do.

23:50I'm just doing what I wish someone had done for me. And if you wanna talk about any of this in more detail, I'd be happy to meet up with total respect for your decisions and process. I'm here for you in any way that you need. Just something like that. And I think if you word it that way, you're not gonna sound like psycho ex-wife. If, on the other hand, you send a five-page letter detailing every terrible thing he did over the course of years and turn it into an opportunity to bash him or trauma dump on this woman, that's when it gets into cuckoo ex-territory. But you're clearly not that person.

24:21And I know you're not gonna do that. If you handle things that way, you might not need to enlist your colleagues to do the dirty work instead. Although now that I think about it, it might be worth telling them that you've reached out to this mutual acquaintance and that if they care about her and they feel comfortable, they might want to give her the same message. If she hears it from multiple people, it'll be much harder for her to dismiss. And that might be what she needs to realize that this is actually serious. And as we talk about a lot, after that, it's really up to her. And if she stays with them, that's her choice.

24:49Then you have to let her learn her lesson in her own way. Like you pointed out, you don't know whether you would have listened if somebody had told you, but at least it would have planted a seed of doubt. And that could be the thing that allows this woman to leave sooner than she otherwise would have. Yeah, of course, totally agree. My only concern in this particular situation is, will this intervention have any ripple effect in her co-parenting relationship with this guy, which is so much better than I ever would have imagined it would be? I'm a little worried about that, Jordan. I'm worried about that, too.

25:17I 100 % agree. And my first reaction to this was like, oh, my God, don't say anything. It's not your business. But then I thought about all the letters we've gotten about this over the years. And I know that she's somewhat morally, ethically obligated to give this woman a heads up. Yeah. But it's a real concern. Is his new girlfriend going to tell him, hey, your ex said all these terrible things about you and told me to break up with you? What's that about? She's so nuts. You're perfect. Or even if she takes our friend's advice, is she going to inadvertently reveal that his ex is the one who tipped her off?

25:43Right. And then what's going to happen to our friend here? Is he going to, you know, stop dropping the kid off on time? And I don't know. I mean, he does have this track record of abuse. Plus, he shares custody of their daughter. So who knows what he might tell her or how he might retaliate in some way or use her as a pawn in all of this? I don't know. Right. Right. So now I'm back to wondering, does that mean she might have a reason not to say something? I think she just needs to be extremely thoughtful about how she communicates with this woman. For one thing, she might want to talk to their mutual colleagues, the ones she wanted to enlist to do some of the dirty work and just ask them, like, what kind of person is she?

26:17You know, is she open? Is she stable? Does she seem trustworthy? You know, like, what do you know about her? Because if they're like, well, actually, she's highly questionable and has a pattern of dating men like this and she didn't keep this secret that I told her two years ago, then I would be a lot more cautious. But if she seems pretty solid and you do reach out, then maybe you tell her, look, I'm very worried about you. I am also taking a big risk myself in sharing this with you. So I'm going to ask you to be very thoughtful about what you do with what I'm about to tell you. And maybe our friend here helps this woman strategize about how to leave without revealing that she was the one who dropped a dime on this guy.

26:51Because I do think that our friend here needs to balance her own interests with this other woman's, given that she still has so much contact with her ex. Yeah, I agree. This one's tricky with the daughter in the mix. I hope she can do right by this other woman while still protecting herself. Same. But let's be clear about this. She is taking a big chance in reaching out to this person and not knowing what she's going to get back or what this woman's going to do with the information. It's a big unknown. So actually, that might be another good reason to enlist a couple of these mutual friends to reach out to her, too, maybe even to coordinate on this conversation together.

27:23That way, you're not the only source of this information, and it can't be traced only to you if she leaves him, and she'll be forced to take your advice more seriously, and all of you can coach her on how to leave this guy without telling him more than he needs to know if it comes to that. So I really do hope you get through to this woman. I hope she's ready to listen, and I hope your story inspires her to take care of herself. You're a solid human being for wanting to look out for her. Just be very cautious and safe along the way. Good luck. You can reach us Friday at jordanharbinger.com. Keep your emails concise.

27:52use descriptive subject lines that makes our job a whole lot easier. If you just found out that your longtime friend was caught with child sexual abuse material, your friend is getting out of prison for murder, or you've called off your engagement after your fiance presented you with the worst prenup ever, whatever's got you staying up at night lately, hit us up Friday at jordanharbinger.com. We're here to help and we keep every email anonymous. Oh, by the way, if you haven't signed up yet, come check out our newsletter, We Bit Wiser. It is a bite-sized gem from past episodes and just good thoughts from Gabe and I, from me to you, delivered right to your inbox once a week.

28:22If you want to keep up with the wisdom from our thousand plus episodes and apply it to your life, I invite you to come check it out. It's a really good companion to the show. You can sign up at jordanharbinger.com slash news. All right, what's next? Hey, Jordan and Gabe. I'm a family physician working in a Midwest suburb for a large medical system. Overall, I like my job and the people I work with, although some of my patients can be pretty challenging. A lot of my patients live at or near the poverty line, and many lack basic knowledge about diet, exercise, and mental health, which makes managing their complex issues even harder.

28:57I work very hard to educate patients during our short visits, and I genuinely empathize with their obstacles, but it often feels like my advice doesn't stick once they leave. It's disheartening to watch my patients continue making poor choices despite my advice and everything modern medicine has to offer. Recently, my organization announced plans to open a new clinic in the next year. The clinic will provide patients with resources to improve their physical fitness and mental health. My dream has always been to work in a clinic that focuses on lifestyle changes as medicine, using modern treatments as a bridge while patients transition to healthier habits.

29:34As an added bonus, it's only five minutes from my house, and it's in a much more affluent suburb with a well-educated, generally healthier population. I've already expressed my interest in transferring to the new clinic and the higher-ups are excited about the idea I'm one of the top performers in my field both in terms of how many patients I manage and patient outcomes So they think i'd be a great fit But here's the catch if I take this job I'll be starting from scratch building a patient panel from the ground up A large part of my compensation is tied to patient panel size So my income would drop from seven hundred fifty thousand dollars to around three hundred thousand dollars which is the base salary in our organization.

30:15Damn, did you know doctors make that much at a clinic? I did not. I was like, is that a typo? That's insane. Not a typo. That is amazing. Wow, balling out of control. I mean, great for him, but I just never thought about in a clinic setting that you could make that much. No, I thought doctors made like 150 or something like that at hospitals. Crazy. I don't know much about doctors, but this is impressive. Jeez, I'm in the wrong business. It would take at least two to three years of hard work to build my panel back up and get back to being a top 1 % earner. And during that time, my family of five would have to make some changes.

30:50We don't live lavishly, but we do travel a lot, which we would have to cut back on significantly. Should I take the leap for my dream job, even if it means a huge pay cut for the next few years? Is it worth starting over and grinding again to get back to where I am now? How could I try to have the clinic provide me with a guarantee of more compensation while I build up my practice, especially since I'll be heavily involved with developing policies, protocols, and procedures if I take the new position. Signed, a high-flying doc starting to balk. I'm rewinding the clock, even though this talk could cause new patients to flock.

31:24Good question. First of all, you sound like an incredible doctor. You're doing work that sounds very impactful and fulfilling, and you obviously take great pride in it. And wow, you're making bank on top of it. All of that is amazing, and you should be extremely proud. Second, this new opportunity sounds insanely exciting. Not only do these higher-ups see you as a valuable player, a real asset to this new clinic, you have the opportunity to do work that's more fulfilling, to work with a patient population that's more aligned with your approach. Part of me is a little sad that these other patients might not benefit from your excellent care anymore, but like you said, they have to want to get better if they're going to get better, and they're ultimately in the driver's seat when it comes to their health.

31:58So look, it's really hard for us to answer the question, do I chase more fulfilling work or do I chase the money? That comes down to what matters most to you, money, or purpose, but here's what I can say. Yes, losing $450 ,000 a year in income is a huge pay cut. If you had said, oh, they're offering me 50K less or 100K less, I'd say, hey, don't think twice. Go for the cooler work. Build back up. $450 ,000 over two or three years, you might be talking about a net loss of like a million dollars here. That's a huge amount of money that would have gone into your retirement. I mean, you might have to work longer.

32:31So this is tough. But it sounds like building your patient panel up is partly under your control, maybe largely under your control. You're an amazing doctor who seems to attract patients, you might start building up really quickly. And it might not be three straight years of 450 annual loss. It might be a fraction of that. And you could probably close the gap pretty quickly. I'm also thinking about the fact that this guy is probably still relatively young, right? So he has a lot of great years of practicing medicine ahead of him. So also taking this pay cut is not going to devastate his family.

32:59It's just going to be a step back. Plus, you don't live lavishly, which is awesome. This might just mean traveling less for a couple of years. No big deal. Who knows? It might even force you guys to get creative about finding meaningful experiences that aren't as expensive. Rent that Winnebago and go camping. Get some cheap tickets to offbeat places. Have different kinds of adventures. Maybe staycations. It's not a bad thing. Might even teach your kids how fun and rich their lives can be without having to fly to Europe or whatever every summer. It's all about how you guys spend that time together.

33:26So my advice is, look, play the long game. Chasing meaningful work is almost always a better strategy than chasing lucrative work, especially if you're a person who's very driven by purposeful work, who's still pretty young, who can survive the pay cut, who isn't putting himself at major risk, existential stuff here, and who knows that there's a way to build back up to where he was. The most bankable and sustainable way to make great money is to do work that you truly care about, and this new clinic sounds like a way to do exactly that. But if you make the jump, I would work your butt off to build up that patient panel.

33:57Goes without saying, but I would treat it like a game. I'd sit down and go, okay, how quickly can I get back to making 750? What would that take? Put together a little business plan, roadmap, set of habits, and some systems that'll allow you to build your practice as quickly as possible. Maybe that means doing a crap ton of intakes in the first six months. Maybe it means writing a weekly newsletter to keep your patients engaged, to encourage them to bring other people to the clinic. Maybe you can do some referral stuff. I don't know what's legal in the medical world. Maybe it means creating some automated email stuff, checking in on your patients at regular intervals so you can give them excellent care in a way that's scalable.

34:29Maybe it means helping this new clinic develop some new offerings that'll generate additional revenue that you can share in or develop some marketing strategies that'll bring more patients into the clinic sooner. And of course, this will also probably mean working longer hours for at least a little while to see as many patients as possible until you can even out and enjoy your practice without pulling crazy hours. There are loads of strategies and techniques you could explore. Basically, I'd put on your entrepreneur hat and get creative. But also, yes, you can and absolutely should negotiate the best possible deal with this new clinic.

34:59There's always room to negotiate. It sounds like they need you for this, and it sounds like they're stoked because they know they're lucky to get you, probably at this price. It sounds like you're gonna be heavily involved in developing policies, protocols, procedures, all that, so you definitely have license to say, hey, I'm happy to help you build this new clinic. I'm pumped to lead this place. I'd like my compensation to reflect that because I'm basically taking an administrative position and a practicing or a clinical position, and then get into it with them. Ask for what you want and see where they're willing to meet you and explain why you need it.

35:28You're taking a massive pay cut. I mean, you're taking more of a, over 50%, that's enormous. I'm not gonna get into a whole negotiation crash course right now, but we're gonna link to all of our negotiation resources in the show notes for you, of course. There's gonna be money for you right now, literally, so definitely check those out as you start these conversations. Bottom line, yes, I think it's worth starting over and grinding again to get back to where you are now if you have a special opportunity like this. But equally important, it's often worth asking if you're really starting over at all.

35:55You might take a step back in compensation, but you've never been a better doctor than you are right now. You're walking into this new gig with a ton of experience, passion, drive. Those are huge assets and they'll be great tools for you in building your practice and a source of inspiration and motivation as you build your earnings back up. And I say that as somebody who's had to start over in a fairly devastating way and I realize that we rarely start from scratch. It feels like you might but then you don't. There are always relationships and skills and experiences we can tap into and building back up is often a lot easier than it seems which is really exciting.

36:27So ask for what you want, be proactive and creative, and trust that working your ass off while you chase something meaningful almost always results in success. So good luck, man. Wishing you and your family all the best. And now it's time for some morbidly obese discounts on the products and services that support this show. We'll be right back. If you like this episode of Feedback Friday and you find our advice valuable or entertaining, I invite you to do what other smart and considerate listeners do, which is take a moment and support our amazing sponsors, all the deals, discount codes, and ways to support the show are all searchable and clickable over at jordanharbinger.com slash deals or email me jordan at jordanharbinger.com.

37:04If you can't find the code, you're not sure if there is a code. I'm happy to surface those things for you because it is that important that you support those who support the show. All right, back to Feedback Friday. Okay, next up. Jordan, I know that 734-XXX-3915 is a convenient to have a chat with you in case you don't act. So it's important you pay attention to this message right now. Take a moment to chill, breathe, and analyze it thoroughly, because we're about to discuss a deal between you and me, and I need you to be on point. You do not know me, whereas I know everything about you, and you must be wondering how, right?

37:44You've been treading on thin ice with your browsing habits, scrolling through those videos, and venturing into the darkest corners of cyberspace. I installed a malware on a porn website, and you visited it to watch. You get my drift. When you were busy watching those videos, your smartphone started out functioning as a RDP remote protocol, which gave me complete accessibility to your smartphone. I can peep at everything on your display, flick on your cam and mic, and you wouldn't have a clue. Oh, and I've got access to all your emails, contacts, and social media accounts too. What I want? Been keeping tabs on your pathetic existence for a while now.

38:22It's simply your misfortune that I found your misadventures. I invested in more time than I should have exploring into your personal life, extracted quite a bit of juicy info from your system, and I've seen it all. Yeah, yeah. I've got footage of you jerking off in your room. Nice setup, by the way. Thank you. That wasn't me. That's in the letter. Right. Yeah, I know. Just to be clear, I then developed videos and screenshots where on one side of the screen, there's whatever garbage you had been watching. And on the other part, it is someone jerking off. That part was me, just to be clear. Yeah, it's true.

38:59With just a click, I can send this video to all of your contacts. What should you do? I feel your worry and confusion. Honestly, I want to wipe the slate clean and let you move on with your regular life and wipe your slate clean. It's a dirty slate. I'm going to give you two alternatives. It's filthy. Either disregard this warning, bad for you, or pay me a small amount. Let's investigate above two options in more details. Option one is turn a blind eye to this email message. Let's see what is going to happen if you take this option. Your video will get sent to all of your contacts. The video is straight fire.

39:34Thank you. Well done, Jordan. I'm so proud of you. Pat myself on the back. and I can't even fathom the humiliation you'll endure when your colleagues, friends, and fam see it. But hey, that's life, ain't it? Don't be playing the victim here. Other option is to pay me and be confidential about it. We'll call this my privacy tip. Now let me tell you what will happen if you opt for this path. Your dirty secret remains private. I will wipe everything clean once you come through with the payment. You need to make the payment via bitcoins only. pay attention. I'm telling you straight, we gotta make a deal.

40:08I want you to know I'm coming at you with good intentions. Clearly. I honor my obligations. Transfer amount, 6 ,000 US dollars. Bitcoin address, he includes it in the letter. Let me tell you, it's peanuts for your piece. Which, wait, is that P-E-A-C-E or P-I-E-C-E? I need some clarification. P-E-A-C-E. It's peanuts for your piece. You got one day to sort this out. My system will catch that Bitcoin payment, wipe out all the dirt I got on you. Don't even think about replying to this. It's pointless. The email and wallet are custom made for you. I don't make mistakes, Jordan. If I suspect that you've shared or discussed this mail with anyone else as I read this on the podcast, your video will instantly start getting sent to your contacts.

40:54And don't even think about turning off your phone or resetting it to factory settings. It is pointless. Let's get this sorted out within five to six hours. I'm waiting for the payment. Honestly, those online tips about covering your camera aren't as useless as they seem. Don't dwell on it. Take it as a little lesson and keep your guard up in the future. Signed, GivingChase to help you save face. Right. So as y 'all have probably figured out by now, or you're not getting a video, mom, but as you probably figured out right now, This is a scam email I received this week from some scam factory in God knows where.

41:28And I asked Gabe to read it because, well, first of all, this is one of the most aggressive scams I've ever seen. It immediately goes to 11. And it reminded me how gross and pernicious these people can be. Second, we've been getting a lot of emails lately from people who have fallen for scams, especially the sextortion-y ones, which is what this is, sextortion. And I thought sharing this might help some folks avoid forking over cash to criminals for no reason. As you can see, these scammers are really good at freaking people out and hitting them where it hurts, worrying that your nudes are going to get leaked or your browsing history is going to be released or someone is compromising material about you.

42:00It's terrifying. And if you don't know about these hustles or you can't see through this stuff, these people can get a ton of money out of you. Because if you pay that six grand, they're going to ask you for more and more and more until you stop. That's the whole point. And they're going to leave you with some really awful feelings. Obviously, I'm thinking about the guy who wrote in a couple months ago after he clicked on, what was it, like a pop-up ad on a porn website, and then he handed over some insane amount was like$40 ,000 in Bitcoin. And he felt really bad about it. This is the same scam.

42:26Exactly, that's where my mind went as well. Great example of a smart, normal, responsible person who just didn't know that these scams exist, who is targeted at a moment of extreme vulnerability. Luckily, I knew better than to take this note seriously, partly because of all the scam stuff I deal with on the show, partly because I don't visit the websites this guy claims I did at all. Many people, they just don't have this awareness. So I wanted to share this with you in case it helps. Also, I found the email hilarious. I mean, it was bad grammar. There were so many other little mistakes and tells.

42:55It was just pathetic in many ways. And I wanted to laugh about it with Gabe on the show. I think my favorite part is what I want. Yes. Been keeping tabs on your pathetic existence for a while now. It's simply your misfortune that I found your misadventures, which is what I'm going to call this podcast from now on. Nice. Yeah. That's one of my favorite lines, too. It's so mean. It's almost comical. But then I love right after that. He's like, I invested more time than I should have at exploring your personal life. It's like, wait, So how interested are you in me? Oh, and also it's pathetic, but I spent 19 hours watching you.

43:22Like, OK, sure. I mean, he's a busy guy. He's got stuff to do, you know? No, of course. I'm so sorry, Scammer, for taking up so much of your precious time with my pathetic wank videos. I should probably keep my me time to a tight 15. But, you know, just to make things easier on guys like this, how inconsiderate of me to be such a taxing target. But Gabe, you know, it's really disturbed me about this scam. A few lines later, he goes, I feel your worry and confusion. And honestly, I want to wipe the slate clean and let you move on with your regular life or whatever. It's like, what? Oh, yeah. Just that creepy way they feign empathy.

43:53Yes. It's horrible. It's so crazy. It's like AI empathy. It's very creepy. One moment is your worst nightmare. The next moment he's like your buddy is just trying to get this to put this behind you. I have to think that's part of what makes these effective at some level. They torment you and freak you out. And then they soothe you and say that they're going to make it all go away. It's so gross. And then a few lines later, he's back to being a total a-hole. Yeah, which is all intentional. They know what works. Clearly, this works because they wouldn't be sending this if they weren't finding some success sending it to a million people and getting 10 victims to respond.

44:21I mean, I also wonder if this is one of those slave operations that you've talked about where they're sending out a form letter and some horrible person at the top wrote the letter. And then all these poor people who are chained to a desk somewhere in Malaysia or whatever have to send it out to tens of thousands of people they found on the dark web. Which, by the way, would explain the weird thing with your phone number at the beginning. But, you know, a lot of people will pay. I mean, where they didn't even have my full phone number, but included exes like you're trying to intimidate me and say you have videos of me doing something horrible.

44:50But the personal information you include is a partial cell phone number. You know, as my full cell phone number, every car insurance sales huckster in the entire Western hemisphere. But you can't find it. Hacker boy. Yeah, right. I mean, it's peanuts for your piece. What a catchphrase. Yes. Anyway, look, if you guys ever get an email like this or anything close to this, do not engage. don't panic, don't respond, don't do anything. Over the course of years, I've been in the sort of funny position of having close friends of mine, some of whom are well-known, be like, okay, no one can know about this.

45:23Someone's got a video of me doing something and I don't know what to do. And I'm like, this is a scam. You're totally fine. Nobody has a video. And they're like, can we forget that we've ever had this conversation? I'm like, no problem, no problem. But it's people where you're like, oh my, the CEO of this big company came to me with this and doesn't know that this is just complete nonsense. They target anybody with this. Her body got compromised. He's like, do you think it'll matter that I, and I'm like, don't finish that sentence. I don't want to know what the rest of that sentence was going to be.

45:49I just want to tell you that you're fine. Yeah. Say no more. Exactly. So if you're confused about whether something is real, you can always run it by other people. Reddit scams, the subreddit for scams, will tell you immediately what kind of scam it is, if they've seen it before. You can also drop it into chat GPT, Google, see if anybody else has gotten it, send it to us, we could try to weigh in. But in general, anyone extorting you on the internet using this kind of language, 99.999 times out of 100 is full of crap. And anyone who says you have six hours to respond or your life is gonna be over is 100 % a scammer.

46:19Oh no, I'm gonna quibble with that. He said five to six hours. So I appreciated his flexibility on that. Okay, fair enough. Yeah, he gave me a little buffer. Those people are 100 % a scammer. This is called building urgency. It's designed to get you to panic so that you cannot think clearly. That is a key ingredient to this scam. That's why scammers will try to keep you on the phone while you're buying the gift cards. That's why they try and threaten you. Because if you start panicking, all your caution goes out the window because you just want it to end. If you start going, so I need to pay the IRS and Target gift cards that work only on iTunes.

46:52Wait. Time. They manipulate time. They have to manipulate time and they have to get your adrenaline pumping. So just do not engage with these emails in any way. Don't click on links. Don't click on attachments. Report the emails, spam, or phishing to your email provider. Delete it and move on with your life. Also, by the way, people who have real dirt on you, they show you a sample. Take it from me. They don't just type 13 paragraphs about how they have your dick pics. Like in spy movies, they always show the person the manila envelope with the black and white photos of them doing something bad that's taken through like a car window.

47:22There's no benefit to being vague if you have a real compromise on somebody. The reason the scammer is being vague is they don't have a damn thing. Yes, they want your imagination to fill in the blanks. And Gabe, one last funny thing. I got the exact same email maybe two or three days later from a different email address. Oh, wow. I mean, the language is 100 % the same. So clearly my information, partial phone number and all, got leaked on the dark web and a scam center or multiple scam centers bought it and picked it up. So, all right. What I want, I want Gabe to hit us up with his recommendation of the week.

47:55All right, let's do it. Yeah, it's simply your misfortune that I've been keeping this one from you. I'll trade you a wank video for it. I got a great setup. Yep. So my recommendation of the week is, you know, those Polaroid cameras from when we were kids, like instant cameras. Sure. There's a whole new generation of them. And there's this one called the Fujifilm Instax Square SQ1 instant camera. And I discovered it because my friend Brenna had one at her house. She had a little party and we took some photos. And I was reminded how fun it is to have a physical photo in the moment of a cool little moment at a party.

48:24I bought one. I actually brought it to Burning Man. It turned out to be one of the most fun things I could have brought. When we ran into friends or met people, I would take a photo and hand it to them, write something on the back. People did that with me. And yeah, it was just really lovely. And it's a fun little toy. And now I have a little collection that I plan to make into a wall of photos in my apartment or in my office somewhere. So I'm having a blast with it. And I think you guys might too. And also made me realize, Jordan, with everything being digital now, physical media is so nostalgic and it's so fun.

48:55There's a lot of value in having actual things you can touch. I'm looking at a photo right now, a Polaroid on my desk of my friend Brennan and me. And it's just like this lovely little memory that I'll cherish forever. So yeah, this is a great camera. Were you on the North Korea trip where I brought a pole, like an ancient Polaroid that also saved a digital copy of the photo and you could print it? No, you did that after we went together. Yeah. So that was fun because in North Korea, you can never, the problem is you can't email somebody a copy of the photo, right? Right. So we would take photos, hand them out and they'd be like, no, you keep one.

49:24And I'm like, it's saved in here. People were wanting photos with their kids and they would say something like, this is the only photo of my son and I together that exists. That's wild. They were doing it through our guides translating, but it was just, that was really something. The only one he tried to pay me. And I just thought, my gosh, the last person I can accept cash from is someone in North Korea. Plus he might even get in trouble for that. I don't even know how that works. Instant cameras, a huge hit in the most repressive regime on earth. That's right. Yeah. We had one at the wedding in Georgia.

49:51We have one here at home. the kids love it. Good recommendation. Oh, one more thing. After I told you guys about that octopus documentary, a bunch of you wrote me with a bunch of great octopus books and content. And thank you for that. I definitely needed more, uh, more cephalopods in my life. A couple of you also pointed out something I did not know, which is that the plural form of the word octopus is not in fact octopi as I insisted on saying it, but octopuses, which is how Paul Rudd says it in the documentary. And apparently that's because the word octopus comes from Greek, not Latin. In Latin, the U.S.

50:24ending gets pluralized with an I, but in Greek, the noun gets pluralized differently, which I did not realize. So actually the plural of octopus should be octopodes, or I checked online and there was somebody who said it octopodes, but that's a bridge too far. I'm not saying that. Now nobody even knows what the hell you're talking about at that point. No, I've lost, I've lost everybody. Yeah. But this is the plural ending in Greek, or you can just say octopuses to reflect the adoption of that word in English. Did you know this, Jordan? No, I did not. But thankfully, 8000 people sent me the exact same email.

50:53I'm actually not complaining. I'm thankful for that. I think it's cool. We get to learn stuff from people. Same. I was shocked at the number of people that actually took the time to write. Actually, here's how this works. I know I'm being annoying, but here's how it works. I'm like, you're not annoying. I'm flattered that you care. No, I actually love these emails. So if anyone says octopi like I did, they might be right in the sense that language evolves and that's how people speak, but it's actually wrong. I was wrong and I'm grateful to be corrected. And it's also nice to know that I'm not the only grammar Nazi in our show family.

51:20So thanks. Now, as a fellow language nerd, I'm also really into this stuff, but as a guy who, who prays that no one turns this show off, I apologize for this weird digression into Greek and Latin pluralization. And I promise the final dumpster fire you've been waiting for is just around the corner. But yeah, thanks for that, Gabe. The camera rec is really good. I can't even fathom the humiliation all of you will endure when your colleagues, friends, and fam jump on this and you don't. All right. In case you don't know, there's a subreddit for our show. If you want to jump in discussions with other listeners about specific episodes, if there was an episode you really liked, an episode you didn't like, maybe you're posting your sextortion scam and you just want to slide over to a different subreddit and discuss this podcast, go and find us over at reddit.com slash r slash Jordan Harbinger or just search for the Jordan Harbinger subreddit and come hang out.

52:02All right. Next up. Hey guys, I don't have it. And by it, I mean that inexplicable magnetism that just attracts people to you everywhere you go without even trying. I can't relate, but go on. I've never really been an outcast, but outside of the people closest to me, my husband, immediate family, two or three close friends who live far away, I've never really been anyone's first choice friend. I've always felt like I'm on the fringes or an afterthought. I've never gotten the impression that people are bothered by my presence, but no one seems to miss me when I'm gone either. I get invited to all of the big planned group events, but rarely does anyone reach out to me on a whim to just hang out on a random Tuesday evening.

52:45Yes, I've tried to be the person who does the reaching out on a random Tuesday. No dice. My husband is very similar, and as a couple, we're never the social nucleus of any other couple's groups. I haven't been too bothered by this for most of my life. I'm an introvert by nature, so I really enjoy my alone time, and I was always included enough that I felt socially fulfilled. But the last couple of years have brought some major changes to my life that are leaving me feeling pretty isolated. A new job that is 100 % travel-based and has no common office, and the loss of my core social group. I'll spare you the details because this letter is already long and they don't really matter here anyway, but basically when the queen bee of that group cut me loose, the other people in the group dropped me so fast and with no questions asked that I can only assume the hole that my absence has left in their life is negligible or non-existent compared to the giant gaping chasm their absence has left in mine.

53:42I was just their fringe friend. I know I'm better off without them, but that doesn't solve my current problem. I know making friends in your 30s is hard, and I've tried all of the low-hanging fruit. I've joined friend-making apps where the conversations flame out before I can propose a meeting. I've joined local meetup groups based on common interests. I've done six-minute networking to rekindle old friendships. I even tried to experiment with different approaches to see if I could become an it person myself, but with little success. Despite my best efforts and actively going out of my comfort zone to reinvent myself, I was always sorted right back into my natural place in the social hierarchy.

54:21Are some people just born B-listers? Is it possible to make the jump from fringe friend to the inner circle without completely changing my personality? Should I stop trying to be something that I'm not and just wait around for another A-lister to take a liking to me and adopt me into the fringes of his or her friend group until they inevitably find a better wallflower to replace me with? Signed, Withdrawn and Woe Be Gone about being stuck in this echelon. You know, Gabe, this letter's hit me on a few different levels. There's a part of me that's very saddened by all of this. I feel her pain. I know how much it sucks to not always feel appreciated or prioritized by people, to not have a group of rock-solid friends around you, to go through a friend breakup like this one that she described and just feel like you have the rug pulled out from under you, which is devastating.

55:07I'm gonna be honest, there were versions of Jordan at different points in his life, especially young Jordan, that could have written this letter or similar. The reason I got so interested in social dynamics in the first place and the dating stuff and the socials. I had a lot to learn about how to relate to people, how to build community, how to accept myself while also building the muscles I needed to build. It's not easy. It's a journey and it can be very confusing sometimes. Like, am I the problem? Are other people the problem? Is it really possible to change in an authentic way that'll get me better friends or is this just my fate?

55:38Those are intense questions and I want to thank you for sharing so much with us. You're being incredibly vulnerable in writing in with all this and I really appreciate that and I bet everyone listening right now does too because all of us wrestle with our social lives to some degree. So to be very direct with you, no, I don't believe that some people are born B-listers. I don't think anyone is fated to only have certain kinds of relationships for the rest of their life or no good relationships. I believe we're born with, you know, certain characteristics that then get developed or reinforced or perhaps neglected in various ways.

56:07Your introversion might be an innate quality, for example, and then we develop additional qualities along the way as we grow. and all of those lead to certain patterns. And those patterns can make it hard to have the relationships we wanna have. But those qualities and patterns, we can absolutely work on them. And we should work on them. If they're creating outcomes we're not happy with, like feeling isolated or misunderstood or unsupported, the question becomes, how do you work on those things and still remain yourself? How do you stretch and improve without feeling false? Because as you pointed out, you tried that, it didn't work, and I don't know what you tried, but I'm with you.

56:42It's hard to build more meaningful relationships when you're not really being yourself. And that's the bind that every person who wants to work on their social skills finds themselves in, including me way back when. So look, this is where your letter gets tricky because I don't know you. I don't know how you show up in these interactions. I don't know what you're bringing to these relationships. I don't know how you navigate conflict with people. There's so much I'd need to know in order to put my old coaching hat back on and really guide you. But I did pick up on a few things in your letter that might be interesting to explore.

57:10The first was the idea that you don't have it, okay? So yes, some people have what you might call a natural charisma. Some people are more naturally outgoing or innately funny or good looking or comfortable with people. We know this. I'm not minimizing how useful those qualities can be, but it sounds like you're thinking about this quality in a very binary way. You either have this magical X factor thing or you don't. Also, in a fairly limited way, like this is simply a question of charisma, when really the success of your relationships, they depend on qualities and behaviors that we all need to consciously cultivate.

57:43Kindness, curiosity, vulnerability, flexibility, good follow-through, integrity, a healthy capacity for conflict, decent sense of humor wouldn't hurt, generosity, a willingness to really be there for people instead of just phoning it in, good judgment. The list goes on and on. Those are the big ones for me anyway that pop into my head. You're already exhibiting many of those qualities in your letter. You clearly have a lot to offer people. But believing you need to have some magical quality in order to have great friendships, I could see how that would lead you to think that you're either born with it or you're not, or that there's such a thing as one's natural place in the social hierarchy, or even that there is some kind of social hierarchy out there as adults, and that being at the top is a worthwhile goal.

58:26I'm just not convinced that that's true anymore. We're not in high school. Things fade quite quickly from there. So I'd invite you to consider, A, whether all of that is really true, B, whether the idea might be functioning in a certain way for you, maybe to make this aspect of life so daunting, so fixed, that it's not even worth addressing at this point, because it's like, hey, look, what's the point, you know? Another thing that jumped out at me was this thing that you said, you always felt included enough that you felt socially fulfilled. Look, I get that. It can be hard to realize that you want more out of life when you're just getting enough contact to scrape by, but this also makes me wonder if you might have been settling for relationships that were never entirely fulfilling even before this whole fallout, and it was hard for you to voice that, which raises another big question for me.

59:11Are you picking the right people? Because you could be brilliantly social and still end up in unfulfilling relationships. Happens all the time. I used to hear about it constantly in my coaching days. Half the equation is what qualities you lead with, how you share yourself with other people. The other half of the equation is which people you are sharing them with. Yes, and if you aren't picking the right people, It doesn't matter if you were born with it, if that quality even exists, you could still end up feeling empty and alone. Right. Look, I'm not saying your old friends were terrible people.

59:42I don't know them. They could be total a-holes. And if they iced you out like this, maybe some of them were. Or they could just be people who had different needs, who were growing in a different direction and simply wasn't a fit. That's really hurtful. And again, I've been on both sides of that experience. I get how awful it is, but that might not make them monsters. What I do know is this. If the queen bee of that group iced you out and others followed suit, those people are not your people, period. And I think she knows that. And knowing which people are your people in terms of the values they hold, the experiences they want to have with you, how they treat you, you know, like whether they take a genuine interest in you, if they are on your side, if they have your back, that is so essential.

1:00:18And that's where your taste and judgment come in. And that might be something else to look at. And that's why I feel, especially in my mid-40s, having two or three really great friends, Hell, having one amazing friend, that's worth so much more than having dozens of maybe kind of friends who could sort of like take you or leave you or clinging to a friend group where you don't feel entirely valued or safe. So when you say, I know I'm better off without them, but that doesn't solve my current problem. I find myself wanting to go, I'm glad you know you're better off without them. And I agree. And I hear you that you're still struggling to find a friend group.

1:00:49But let's slow this down a little bit and appreciate that your current problem might be informed in part by the people you're choosing in the first place. Well, it's a really important point, Jordan. I agree. And I totally share your view on having deep friendships with people as opposed to having like dozens and dozens of people who like might or might not be there when you need them. There was one other moment that jumped out at me in her letter. And it was the part where she said, I'll spare you the details because this letter is already getting long and they don't really matter here anyway.

1:01:15But basically, and then she goes on to tell us the brief story about how the queen bee of that group cut her loose. And then everybody like closed ranks around her. Yeah, that was interesting. What do you make of that? Well, first of all, the details about what actually went down might have been super helpful for us to A, diagnose what happened, and B, appreciate why this was such a huge wound for her. Without some details, we're now having to fill in the gaps and speculate and dig into these clues, which is fine. But I find it interesting that she spent so much time describing her problem. but when it came time to give us you know like some real insight into the specifics of her dynamics with these old friends now is that our friend here being thoughtful about the length of her letter not wanting to take up too much time probably she's clearly a very thoughtful person and i actually love that about her but is that also maybe a little bit of self-preservation would it be exposing would it be embarrassing to recount the details of how that breakup actually went down and is she maybe controlling the narrative here just a little bit Also possible?

1:02:16It's also possible. Or is her skipping over the details in an effort to be respectful, you know, basically not wanting to take up too much space on our show, is that itself a really interesting quality of hers? Because like you said, Jordan, so much of Great Friendships is about vulnerability, right? Sharing things with people, allowing them to take up room, being willing to take up room yourself, risking that feeling of being a burden and knowing that if you're building friendships with the right people, you aren't a burden. But if she's doing that with us, if she is literally telling us this letter is already too long and these details don't really matter anyway, I do wonder if she does a version of that with other people.

1:02:54I don't know if it's explicit or implicit. I don't know if it's conscious or unconscious, but she might be signaling to people, I'm already too long. I don't really matter anyway. When the reality is we would have loved to hear the details of what happened with that friend group so we could be helpful to you. And they do matter because you matter. but if you don't think you matter then it's going to be a lot harder for other people to feel that you matter too and if you don't always make it easy for people to know what's really going on with you or you know if you don't talk about these really formative experiences that you've been through then I can see how this could become a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy and I could also see why you might think that you'd have to invent a whole new persona for yourself instead of learning how to share these parts of yourself your true self in the right way Bingo, Gabe.

1:03:41That's exactly right. And I can see how this pattern could lead someone to develop all the beliefs that she shared in her letter, including the assumption that the hole her absence has left in their life is negligible or non-existent compared to the giant gaping chasm their absence has left in hers, right? She said that in the letter. Which was such a difficult sentence to hear. Yeah, kind of heartbreaking. Like, I'm not saying she's wrong, and I'm not going to convince her to feel otherwise. I mean, she feels how she feels. It's all fair. But there's a really interesting story baked into that belief.

1:04:09She didn't just get dropped by these friends. She's also failed to make the same impact on them that they did on her. So her loss is bigger than theirs, right? It's a double injury. It's like a triple injury. So look, is it possible to make the jump from fringe friend to inner circle without completely changing my personality? Well, I would back up a little first and ask yourself whether you need to be in some theoretical inner circle in order to feel connected and fulfilled. My vote is no, but I'll let you decide that for yourself. I think you'll get a lot further seeking out people who share your values and interests and commitments.

1:04:41You need to focus on people, not on groups. But yes, you can absolutely evolve without changing your whole personality. Like I said, there might be aspects of yourself that you need to develop. We touched on a few, the most meaningful one being your capacity for vulnerability, connection, self-disclosure. So I'm not letting you off the hook for that. But I would not invent some whole new persona. Trust me, I've tried that. I've seen many people do that when I was younger. It does not work. It's a trap. You don't become more authentic by adding stuff to your personality. You become more authentic by subtracting things from your personality that are inauthentic and usually caused by insecurity.

1:05:17So give that a go. See if you find any new results. It's all learning. You're growing. You're changing. You've been through a big wound with this friend group. But the upside is that this experience is inviting you to look at how you operate with other people, which I think is great. So stay curious. Take chances. and I know you'll find the friends and experiences that you want to have. Sending you a big hug and wishing you all the best. Go back and check out Rene DiResta and our Skeptical Sunday on generic versus name brand drugs if you haven't done so yet. The best things that have happened in my life and business have come through my network, the circle of people I know, like, and trust, speaking of friendships and relationships.

1:05:51I'm teaching you how to build that same thing for yourself in our six-minute networking course. The course is free. It is not gross. It is not schmoozy. It is more subtractive and authentic, to use all the buzzwords we threw in that last question there. You can find it on the Thinkific platform at sixminutenetworking.com. It doesn't take a ton of time every day. I wish I knew this stuff 20 years ago. Dig that well before you get thirsty, folks. Build relationships before you need to lean on them. You can find all of that, again, once again for free at sixminutenetworking.com. Show notes, transcripts on the website, advertisers, deals, discount codes, and ways to support the show, all at jordanharbinger.com slash deals.

1:06:26I'm at jordanharbinger on Twitter and Instagram. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn. Gabe's over on Instagram, Gabriel Mizrahi, or on Twitter at Gabe Mizrahi. This show is created in association with Podcast One. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Robert Fogarty, and of course, Gabriel Mizrahi. Our advice and opinions are our own. I am a lawyer, but I am not your lawyer. So do your own research before implementing anything you hear on this show. Remember, we rise by lifting others. Share the show with those you love. And if you found the episode useful, please share it with somebody else who could use the advice we gave here today.

1:06:56In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on this show so you can live what you learn and we'll see you next time. Here's a trailer of an episode I think you might enjoy. If you're not honest with yourself, then how do you ever move your life in the positive direction? Because you're starting from a point of fantasy. Nobody can succeed if you're not honest with themselves. Revenue cures all. You know, when I talk to people in business seminars and they say, you know, John, my labor cost is high, my marketing cost is high, my promotion cost is high, my tech cost is high. But if I could raise your revenue by 30%, you wouldn't have pet cost problems anymore.

1:07:33You wouldn't have labor cost problems. So it's the ultimate pacifier of every problem that exists in our lives. If we focus on top line, which means I wake up in the morning and the first thing I do is how do I monetize myself right now? How do I drive revenue? That is the first thing I have to do today. Then I can deal with all of the other things that I have to, but there's nothing more important to an entrepreneur than revenue. And if they don't wake up every morning and think about revenue first thing, probably shouldn't be an entrepreneur. And I'm going to say something that's going to upset some people.

1:08:07Sometimes when I go to these businesses and I see a bartender, people say, he's been a bartender for 10 years. He should be the manager. No. If he's been a bartender for 10 years and he hasn't bubbled up, then he's the last guy who should be the manager. Some people are comfortable where they are and you promote them right out of the company. That guy who's been a bartender for 10 years, leave him alone. The person who's not comfortable, who's bubbling up on their own, that's the one who should be promoted, even if they've only been with you for a couple months. I don't believe that you can make a leader.

1:08:37I don't believe you can train a leader. I don't believe you can make a leader. The Pied Piper, you would have followed him off a cliff. Leadership is boring. It's not given. For more no-nonsense business advice with Bar Rescue star John Taffer, check out episode 142 of The Jordan Harbinger Show.

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