1236: Bedroom Blame Game Sparks Consent Shame | Feedback Friday

25:38Come on, man. It is a very interesting part of the story. What's even more fascinating though, is that he now knows it didn't feel right to him, but he also says he doesn't know how to feel. And his question, by the way, is not just how should I feel about this, but how should I feel as a man? Well, I think that speaks to how confusing certain sexual stuff can be for men, especially when it comes to consent, because he probably doesn't feel totally secure going, yeah, I didn't like that. That was kind of violating or whatever, presumably because it might be embarrassing or emasculating to say that as a guy.

26:04Yeah. Or as a guy, he thinks, no, that should be awesome. I should enjoy that full stop. And like he said, he probably would have found this idea exciting when he was younger, but then the reality was very different and so that's confusing um you know sorry i'm having a giggle because it reminds me of what's that movie where jennifer aniston and jason baitman she's like a dentist and he works in her office and she's sexually harassing him oh is that horrible bosses it's horrible bosses yeah and the joke is like dude jennifer aniston's sexually harassing you that's awesome it's not harassment that's the joke but it is but it is right it's like really uncomfortable and jason baitman is really good at being like the most awkward human beings alive Yeah.

26:38So, yeah, you swap the genders and it gets weird, complicated. Right. Yeah. But if Jason Bateman were a dentist harassing Jennifer Aniston, we'd be watching. We know it's a guy. Yeah. So I'm really struck by the fact that they both feel sexually taken advantage of or manipulated or coerced, but in very different ways. Yeah. I mean, the picture I'm getting is that they were both creating situations where they were engaging with each other in ways that were very confusing and upsetting and they were not communicating openly about it at any point in their marriage. She could have said, hey, when you get upset, when I turn you down, that makes me feel like I have to have sex with you.

27:12And at any point he could have said, I'm not sure how I feel about you initiating sex while I'm asleep. I actually don't know if I really like it. It feels strange. It feels wrong. But that's hard to do if you don't actually know how you feel about. Of course. Or if you don't even think that you have the right to feel a certain way. So I would say that's also part of his job to figure out why it's hard for him to know how to feel about some really important things in his life. Obviously, talking to a therapist can be very helpful. It sounds like he might need to process some of these events. But really, the bigger project is, how do I feel?

27:42And why is it really hard for me sometimes to articulate that? To figure out what in his past or his personality makes it hard for him to be in touch with his true feelings, to speak up about what bothers him. Yeah, to make more room for all of these different reactions. This is the real question in his letter, in my view. And it's such a fundamental question. It goes beyond what played out with his wife, but I suspect that it was also at the root of most of what played out with her. Because if you struggle to understand yourself, I mean, that affects everything in a relationship. Yeah, absolutely.

28:10And I think we'd also have to point out that their respective dissociations, their respective struggles to feel their feelings and communicate, those probably fit together like puzzle pieces. And that must have contributed to this whole consent debacle. So what a story, man. There's so much to talk about. I'm sure we could go on for a long time, but that's kind of the long and short of it for me. I'm sorry that your marriage was so challenging. I do hope there were some bright spots too, but all of this is an opportunity to look at these parts of yourself and grow and just do things differently in the future.

28:42And good luck. And now we're going to wake you up in the middle of the night with some explicitly consensual deals and discounts on the fine products and services that support this show. We'll be right back.

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29:35Use code Jordan and grab your favorites before this deal disappears. After December 3rd, it is gone. Don't miss it. This episode is also sponsored by BetterHelp. This time of year can feel a bit heavy. I've been more intentional about reaching out lately, texting friends I haven't talked to in a while. I'm always glad that I did. Therapy's kind of the same thing, same way. You think about it, you put it off, and then when you're finally doing it, you wonder what took you so darn long. BetterHelp makes that first step easier. You fill out a short questionnaire. They match you with a licensed therapist who fits what you need.

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30:33This episode is sponsored in part by Airbnb. I've been so burned out cranking out content lately that all I can think about is travel. There's just something about stepping out of your routine that hits the reset button like nothing else. I got a trip to Patagonia coming up, which I'm ridiculously excited about. It's that magic of meeting new people, trying foods you can't pronounce, exploring new cities. That's really what travel's about, frankly, not the checklist or the perfect itinerary, but the experiences and connections you make along the way those moments end up being worth more than anything you buy.

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32:28music, hence my current program, but I never committed to pursuing any of them properly. Instead, I spent my teens procrastinating and making grand plans with zero follow-through. This might sound like a typical way to spend your teenage years, but for me, it was torture. I spent five years hating myself for never taking that crucial first step towards something bigger. I know the feeling. I think a lot of people do. But honestly, part of growing up is wrestling with exactly this kind of thing. I would not beat yourself up too much. You're learning. Recently, though, I had a stroke of inspiration.

33:01I've been reading Noah Kagan's Million Dollar Weekend, and it convinced me that what I actually want is to start a moderately sized business doing something I enjoy, something that makes enough money and grants me the freedom to invest in creative projects without financial constraints or the pressure of making a living from them. This revelation has been absolutely gripping. I'm spending hours every day working on business ideas, reaching out to people to understand their problems, and finding little motivation for much else, including my studies, unfortunately. That's exciting. You sound lit up about this.

33:32I love it. However, I've hit a major roadblock. The UK student visa I'm on explicitly prohibits me from being self-employed or even, as they put it, quote, engaging in business activity, unquote. I've looked deeper into the visa restrictions and they're clear, no starting a business. The university's international student office basically confirmed that I would be risking my entire education if I got caught running one. I feel absolutely devastated. Just when I finally found something that genuinely excites me and gives me direction, I'm legally prohibited from pursuing it. The thought of going back to that limbo of procrastination and self-hatred is genuinely terrifying.

34:11Part of me wonders if I should transfer back to Switzerland or another EU country where I'd have more freedom to pursue business ventures while studying. But my parents have invested a significant amount in sending me here, and I'd hate to disappoint them by essentially throwing that away. At the same time, is it really worth spending two years going through the motions on something I feel little passion for, only to have them spend even more money on my final year, force myself through a degree I'll never use, and then pursue what I could be doing right now? Do I put this newfound passion on hold for the next two years until I graduate and can potentially get a different visa status?

34:43What if this momentum I finally found completely evaporates, and I find it infinitely harder to get motivated about starting a business after graduation? Should I be patient and focus on my studies knowing I can pursue business later? Or is there a way to channel this energy productively within my current limitations? Signed, a uni student humbly asking how to be hungry without getting kicked out of the country. Interesting. So there are actually two or three things going on here. Let's try to separate them out. First off, like I said, super exciting that you found something you're genuinely passionate about.

35:15I know that feeling well. I know how awesome it is to find something you deeply care about something you can spend hours and hours doing to the point that everything else falls away. For me, that was podcasting. It's just, it's a sign you're on the right path. And if you can execute, it'll probably lead you to some really exciting stuff. Honestly, not legal advice, but I wouldn't worry about this visa thing right now. You're still in the research phase. You haven't even settled on an idea yet. It could take months, a year or two or more before you hit on an idea that's actually workable, that can make money.

35:44You're just talking to people and reading and brainstorming. Come on, you're a student. I promise you. Again, not legal advice. No UK immigration official is going to knock on your dorm room door like, hey, we heard you were asking people about their pain points at work and we saw you've been using chat GPT to find B2B business models. You're going to have to come with us. This thing about not running a business on your student visa, I am 99 % sure that only kicks in if your name is on some founding documents for a company or you open a business bank account or you launch a website with your name on it and it's got an e-commerce shopping cart generating revenue.

36:19Even then, well, they'd still have to catch you, which means they'd have to be keeping a close eye on you, which they probably aren't. And anyway, I'm going to go ahead and guess the Metropolitan Police in Scotland Yard have bigger fish to fry. There are people who are entirely lying about being enrolled in a university to work illegally. People overstaying their visas. People engaging in literal organized crimes. Those are the people they're going after. Right. So my take is this is not a problem yet. it'll probably never be a problem. And if it did become a real problem, it's just a good problem to have.

36:51And frankly, there are ways to deal with that too. Like don't incorporate until you graduate or get a different visa or put the company in your business partner's name. Or if the company is really that promising and crushing it, you drop out of school and you move to a different country and run the thing. But you have no idea if any of that's going to come to pass. So my advice here is actually even broader. It's something you're going to have to learn if you want to be an entrepreneur. Be very disciplined about what you worry about. There will be no shortage of obstacles in building a new company.

37:19The whole journey is obstacles. You don't need to invent new ones or worry about ones that haven't come to pass yet. Speaking of Noah Kagan, he's big on only focusing on things you can control. That's one of the biggest bits of advice that he's talked about on my show before many times. Don't project yourself so far in the future and then you find problems there that stop you from even trying. It just doesn't make sense. An interesting thing I keep learning over and over again, the things you think are going to be problems, they usually never happen. And the things that you can't even anticipate, those are the things that become problems.

37:50Yes. Right now, you're essentially worrying about overpopulation on Mars when you should be worrying about what idea you're going to have to sell to people in the first place. So what I would do is stay where you are, keep doing your homework, keep talking to potential customers, keep being curious, and focus on finding concrete problems you You can actually solve specific needs you can meet until you land on an idea that you think you can reasonably pull off and then keep taking baby steps towards that. And by the way, if you do hit on an idea before you graduate, building a minimum viable product, informally offering a product or service to people to just test the waters, especially if you aren't even charging for it at first, I still think that wouldn't violate the terms of your visa.

38:34If anyone's like, hey, what's that thing you're doing while you're still a student? You could say it's a side project, something I'm testing and playing with. There's no company. There's no revenue. I'm just making stuff. Again, I could just almost guarantee you no one's going to care. Yeah, super solid advice, Jordan. I'm just thinking about where she started this letter, which was I've ping ponged among all these different things. I never committed to any of them. I procrastinate. I made grand plans with zero follow through. She has a lot of regret and a lot of self-loathing around that. I don't know.

39:00You're 19. Isn't the name of the game? I mean, she's ahead of the curve if she's already working on that pattern. but now she's landed on this idea to start a medium-sized business that makes her enough money to casually invest in creative projects without worrying about making a living from them so it is a beautiful goal i am all for it i would love to see you do this but let's also remember that this is not a business yet this is still just a broad ambition it's a general direction which is great this is how it starts but i would just encourage you to keep an eye on the tendency to get distracted by the next shiny thing if that's what's happening here especially when that thing is very abstract.

39:33Yeah. So what you're getting at is, is this desire to start a company just one more thing she's ping ponging to? It's just a question. You know, back when I was working in consulting, I came up with two or three business ideas that I got excited about. One of them was like this corporate blog thing. Another one was an ad tech project. Another one was a, I wanted to develop software for restaurants. And I did what she did. I interviewed business owners and restaurant managers, and I tried to apply what I knew how to do, which at the time was very little. I partnered with a couple of guys I worked with back then.

40:04And then, you know, we looked into these things. And over time, I realized that the businesses were not feasible or I didn't have the skills to pull them off or and this was the hardest lesson. I realized that I was more in love with the idea of starting a company than I was with the problem that the company was supposed to solve. That is by the way, that is so common. I've been there, too, honestly. Just to be clear, I am not questioning your motivations. I'm not trying to sow any doubt. If you want to make this happen, I believe that you can. But I think the real question of your letter is how do I really commit to something?

40:31You know, how do I rewrite this pattern I have of jumping from thing to thing? How do I avoid backsliding? And the answer is you got to keep checking in with yourself and make sure that you are still genuinely passionate about starting a business and you're making some kind of progress towards specific problems or opportunities or insights. You're not just finding something else to chase because it's the new thing. And also you got to keep an eye on your relationship with this project and make sure that you are doing it because you genuinely care about the problem or the product or the customer, not just because you want to be a business owner in some abstract sense.

41:02And you also got to stick with it long enough to find out what it's like when it is not fun. You know, when you are not as inspired, when that initial burst of motivation fades away and the real problems start to pop up and teach yourself how to stay in a relationship with your goal through all of those phases, which actually means being in a relationship with yourself that can survive these uncomfortable feelings, which I'm just going to guess are like frustration and disillusionment and confusion, even boredom. These same feelings are probably the ones that made you want to jump from thing to thing in the past.

41:32And you've got to work to stay connected to what you truly care about when those feelings are in the mix. Spot on, Gabe. She's in a parallel process right now. She's hunting for a good idea, but she's also learning how to stick with something. Yes. Those are two different skills, but they're obviously going to inform each other. Yeah. As for school, don't drop out yet. Don't put the cart before the horse. If you land on an idea and a business takes off before you graduate, then you can decide jumping the gun on dropping out. That might be focusing on a problem that doesn't exist yet. It might be another ping pong move.

42:01You know what it reminds me of Gabriel is a lot of people write in and go like, oh, I watched a video from like some influencer and they say, burn the ships and go all in on my side hustle. And it's like, why? Oh, something motivation, something sounds good on TikTok. And it's like, no, don't quit your day job or the thing that you are doing to pay the bills until that is the absolute bottleneck like you can't scale your business because you don't have enough free time because you are working at a restaurant right then quit your restaurant not because you want to put yourself in a manufactured position of desperation to pursue this thing that you might or might not actually be connected right that just doesn't make any sense that's a weird meme-y instagram tiktok-y like business influencer piece of advice that they themselves would absolutely never follow Right.

42:42So don't do that. But I also wouldn't put this newfound passion on hold. Do both. Man, it could take you two, three or five years, 10 years. I don't want to scare you. Take a while to find a business that succeeds. That's just how it goes. And you might be very happy to have that degree in the meantime, or at least have it be behind you or have your parents off your back or whatever it is. I'll tell you, I have a law degree that I don't use. And when I become an advisor for other companies, they'll say, oh, Jordan Harbinger is a podcaster and an attorney. And then inevitably we'll be on an investor call or something and like, hey, where'd you go to law school?

43:18Michigan. And they're like, oh, wow. Their general counsel is like, wow, that's pretty good. You're not going to be like, I'm so sad I have a degree. It's going to be an asset at some point, or at least you're going to look like somebody who can obtain a degree and therefore you're going to have credibility when you start your business. So just there's no reason to drop it right now. The only reason to drop out of school now, in my view, is if you absolutely hate every second of it, you just can't find it in you to do a decent job. You know, in your bones, school is not your path. It makes you want to barf thinking about doing it.

43:50Then I might say, OK, don't waste another two years and a ton of your parents money, even if you don't have a business idea yet. But there goes your visa, too, by the way. It just doesn't sound like this is the case. What you need is just some balance and some systems to stay on top of school while you also nurture this business dream and you know c's get degrees bro you don't have to ace everything you just have to try hard enough to pass i know that's terrible that's not the parent in me talking but no but that's real also i think that's probably especially true in music when your degree is music like do you have to get an a in music like if you want to go to law school then you need good undergrad grades if you want to get a degree from a music school you just have to get a degree from a music school.

44:32So I'll let you do the math on that. But if you focus on these systems balance, this path is just going to start to unfold on its own or it won't. And you'll know what to do next. I promise you that much. Love your passion. Love your mindset. Some exciting things ahead, my friend. And good luck. You can reach us Friday at Jordan Harbinger dot com. Please keep your emails concise. Try to use a descriptive subject line that makes our job a whole lot easier. If your parents are financially and emotionally supporting your unfaithful absentee ex-husband, your aggro colleague is caught up in a romance scam and you don't know whether to save her, or your polyamorous partner won't prioritize you over another partner, whatever's got you staying up at night lately, hit us up Friday at jordanharbinger.com.

45:12We're here to help and we keep every email anonymous. By the way, if you haven't signed up yet, come check out our newsletter, We Bit Wiser. I love the engagement. Every time we send one of these out, we get a lot of responses. It's a two-minute read, comes out most Wednesdays. A lot of wisdom from the episodes. A lot of things to chew on for the rest of the week. I'm really just impressed with how much engagement this thing gets, how much people love reading it and replying. So go ahead and check it out. Come join us. You can sign up at jordanharbinger.com slash news. Okay, what's next? Hi, Jordan and Gabe.

45:42My girlfriend is having communication issues at work. I'm about 10 years older than her, so I'm kind of a different generation. She's incredibly intelligent, but I've noticed that her younger millennial style of speech is getting an abrasive reaction from her Gen X boss. At 43, I straddle the two generations, and I can see how millennial speech patterns can seem condescending and maybe even confrontational to an older man. Interesting. It can't be worse than the Gen X, Gen Z divide. Oh, no way. That's an abyss. Even millennials are like, man, these kids are on some other shit. I don't get it. It's hard to give you examples because a lot of this has to do with inflection.

46:18Let's say it's a Monday morning meeting, and the boss asks how something is going with a specific client. She'll reply, I haven't heard back yet, but I don't check my email on weekends because, you know, like boundaries. That strikes me as incredibly annoying and reckless. Yeah, you're upset. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. This is probably said in a sing-song tone, probably meant to be a bit sarcastic, but also trying to assert the fact that she is not paid to work on weekends. So she's not being sarcastic. She's saying the truth in a way, like with a tone that's supposed to suggest it's not as big of a deal as it is, but she's actually saying it.

46:56Okay. Another example, when asking if it's okay to work remotely, she almost always feels like the approval was given hesitantly and or was forced. I'm not sure what was said in that exchange, but I imagine it probably went something like, I can get more done if I work from home today without all the distractions. I wasn't there in person, but I do think that the expectation for young professionals to work seven days a week, or at least be on call, is growing. Even though few job descriptions will state that. That's different, though. Work remotely doesn't mean work seven days a week. It sounds like she's staying home.

47:28No, he introduced a new idea there. Yeah, but also, like, I'd love to work from home today without all the distractions. You know, like my annoying colleagues, annoying boss meetings and calls? You. I'd rather just watch Netflix in one tab while pretending to answer my Slack message. All those distractions. My phone keeps dinging when the client wants to get in touch. Yeah, really. Yeah. But I will say I just heard all of our European listeners. I'm envious that they can't wrap their heads around this because a lot of EU countries have that to disconnect law. They basically it basically makes it illegal to force employees to answer emails after like 5 p.m.

48:00or whatever. Having just hundreds of thousands of extra hours. Having just returned from the continent can confirm these people are not on their iPhones after 5 p.m. Right. But like here in America, you're on call. Yeah, you better be. You're at least expected to not be behind the ball during the Monday morning huddle. I'm pretty sure that high performers in Europe are still checking their email. They stay past the report. They have to be, right? Hey, Johan, can you check your email later when you get home? Because I think there might be info about this. Like, yes, I will glance at my phone once.

48:27It's around 7 p.m. And if it's in there, okay. Come on. It can't really be forget about everything. I know talking is complicated, but I want to share this insight with her because I think it might shed some light on the matter. The problem is that I don't want to send the signal that she needs to alter patterns of speech that are basically her in order to succeed. But what if those patterns are holding her back in her career? That it's important for her to know this, right? Is this just her or is this being a bad employee? Like, what if her is not someone suited for any level of serious responsibility?

49:00What if her is a barista? You know? No shade on baristas. No, but you do not get emails about the client eating an oat milk latte. Yeah, if you work weekends, it's because you're on the schedule. So he goes on. Or are we at that point where spoken language needs to be refined a bit in order to maintain respectful conversation? I don't know if there was ever a point where that wasn't the case. No, that has been the case. Congrats. That's been the case since the dawn of spoken language. Bro just discovered corporate. Right. I would never suggest this to a person who doesn't have English as a first language.

49:32So why would I care about a native English speaker's tone and inflection? Oh, okay. because they're totally different. Completely. Yeah. Am I missing something? Because why am I explaining this? A native speaker has a much better grasp of the language. They can hear this stuff differently. Or they should. They should. Yeah. Gabe, I'm mystified by this argument. What does this have to do with anything? She's a native English speaker. She's overtly communicating that she doesn't give a crap about this job and she's covering it with faux sarcasm. The fact that our friend here is even entertaining this objection in advance, I don't know, man.

50:05Maybe I'm reading into this too much, but I feel like he's not totally in touch with how reckless. I think he's slowly starting to get it, but he's, yeah, he might not realize this is a really big deal. So you're saying, is he letting her off the hook in advance? I'm getting that sense. Yeah. But to go back to the other example, like if you have a colleague from China or Russia and they say something and you go, that sounded kind of rude. Your next thought is probably, oh, but he's foreign. So like maybe he doesn't realize how rude that sounds. Maybe I'll say something if he does something like that again, because he would love to know.

50:35But if a native speaker says it, you don't go, gee, she doesn't have enough grasp of the English language. You're like, no, that was deliberately kind of a shitty thing to say. I'm going to judge her for it. And it's fair to do that. I mean, that's how this works. And if it's not deliberate, then you're at least being obtuse. Yes. And then it's like, do I want somebody with low EQ in my office handling clients? Not really. So which one is it? Would you have this conversation? If so, how? And do generational differences matter as much as I think? Signed, wondering how to convey that my girlfriend needs to pay more attention to how she plays with these older folks who would probably say that they're a little bit dismayed by this attitude she's displaying.

51:16interesting so okay yeah of course generational differences matter but honestly what you're describing in my opinion it has much less to do with generational differences and more to do with just not being able or not being willing to read the room very yeah this is not a gen x millennial divide this is a disrespectful crowd interaction you said you have a feeling that her speech patterns can seem condescending maybe even confrontational especially to an older man that is not a millennial Gen X thing. That's a human being thing. A millennial Gen X thing is that guy wore what looked like jeans to the interview.

51:50They were nice, but they weren't, there wasn't a suit and a tie. And you're like, oh, they interviewed at a bunch of tech companies. That's kind of fine. This firm, it's different. It's a generational. Or like my Gen Z subordinate wants to text instead of call or something like that, which is also, I would argue, kind of something they need to work on. But like, that's more of a generational thing. This just sounds like being a bad colleague. Yes. I would find a lot of this abrasive to what she said earlier. I would find that abrasive even if I were the same age as your girlfriend or younger. The age thing for sure heightens it.

52:21Now, I got to state the obvious. None of us are in the room with her. We don't know for sure how she's saying these things, how they're landing. We just kind of have to take your word for it. But I think your read on this is probably generally correct. And because you straddle both generations, you're probably more sensitive than most. And that's an asset. But I hear you that you don't want to tell your girlfriend how to talk at work. You don't want to take away a style that's essentially hers. But if this, you know, super authentic style is rubbing people the wrong way, like I said, I think that's crucial feedback.

52:53She's not a comedian. She's not Bill Burr. This is not your line of work. You're handling clients. It's up to her whether she wants to take all this into account. If I were her, I would certainly want to know. but I get that you don't want to be presumptuous. You don't want to be a know-it-all. You don't want to make her self-conscious. You also don't have all the information because you weren't there. She's 33. She's not 23. Good point. If someone's 23, when I was 23 and I was working in law offices, I remember they - You're kind of clueless. I was clueless. My dad was an auto worker. My mom was a teacher.

53:20So I came in and I remember they were like, hey, this is a British law firm. You don't have to wear a suit, but we expect like the top buttons to be buttoned and not show like the undershirt. And I was like, oh crap, I didn't know that. I'm not from enough from the UK and in New York, it was okay to not have a tie and a little bit of your white shirt showing like no big deal. So people tell you things. They don't go what an idiot you got we got to get rid of this guy. If you're 33, and you're talking to your boss that way, it's like, hey, oh, here's a better example. And when I was in New York, I made another gaffe, I think it was also 23.

53:52One of the partners, his initials were on his cuff of his shirt, and it was SOB. And I went, oh, your initials are SOB, just not thinking. And he was like, yep. and I remember going, oh, and I had nothing else to say because I was like, what do you say? I was like, oh, I better not say anything. And I paused and he paused and he was offended by that a little bit. He told HR about that and they were like, hey, don't try to be funny at work. And he's like, yeah, I wasn't trying. You didn't even make a joke. It was just a gaffe. It was just a stupid thing. But they were like, don't worry about it.

54:23He's not mad. It's like, be careful about that. He wasn't mad, but he went to HR about it. He was a little short shrimpy guy and he was a little bit like a, he was the guy who would say, no problem. And then go to HR and be like, he asked to leave the office early. But your point is when you're 23, you're not attuned to that stuff. Right. And they, they're aware of this. But when you're 33, you get way less slack because now it's like, why are we teaching you how to behave in an office environment? What is wrong with you? You've been in the corporate environment for a minimum of like 10 years.

54:53Right. What's wrong with you? What is your deal? either you're clueless or you're doing it on purpose which one is it so in order to talk to her about this what have you kicked it off by saying so hey i was thinking about that story you told me the other day when your boss was like hey how's it going with such and such client and you said i haven't heard back yet but i don't check my email on weekends because you know like boundaries i understand you feel the need to protect your time maybe you feel you don't get paid enough to work on weekends we can talk about that but i was just wondering how did your boss respond when you said that?

55:25How do you think he took that? Nice. I like that. I would start there and invite her to get curious about that. And here's the thing, Gabriel, I think she already knows because how does this guy know that that happened? Surely he reacted poorly or she suspects he did. And then came home, she came home and told him she's going to have to start taking an interest in her colleague's opinion of her before she can really make a change here. If she engages with you, then you can move into questions like, so how do you think your boss felt when you said that? Is he cool when you ask to work remotely or do you feel like there's tension around it?

55:55How are you making that request? Do you feel like they trust you to work at home and get stuff done? I know that sounds a little interrogation-y. I wouldn't bombard her with all these questions in a row. I'm just giving you a few ideas for how to start the conversation. I like it. And then see how she responds. If she's like, sometimes I feel like he's just annoyed with me or they don't love it when I work from home, but I got to do it. That's a good sign. That's a way if she's like my boss gets a note of me but i don't even care i'm not answering emails on weekends they don't pay me that's on them that's a sign that she's not open to talking about this frankly it's a loser mindset but i digress and then you got to decide do i press this issue and give her the feedback anyway or do i just let her figure this out on her own by falling on her face i hear that i would say though even if she responds that way he could still say huh interesting i hear that but why don't you care what he thinks of you true he could keep digging he could yeah or he could say yeah it would be nice if you were paid to work more on the weekends have you thought about asking for a raise yeah that's clever because then she'd probably be like hell yeah i'd love to get paid more and you could say he could basically say yeah me too do you think you've earned it do you think your boss would go for it how does he feel about you and there's your window back in yes i like that so i think we're on the same page here the more we talk about this the more i think this is about much more than just communication style the way she's communicating is just the top layer of a deeper thing that she needs to look at a way of being with her colleagues her values around relationships and work.

57:19And yeah, this is not just about inflection or whatever. This is really about her mindset. Yes. So to go back to that conversation about the client for a moment, whether she should be checking email on weekends or not, whether she should be enforcing boundaries with her bosses or not. I'm sorry. She should be checking her email on weekends as a client. I know. This is a no brainer, dude. You're telling me you're servicing a client, which is like real responsibility. You're the front lines of a firm who services clients. There's a way to be across this stuff without sacrificing your whole weekend.

57:46Really just look at it on Sunday night at 8 p.m. Be like email from client. Look at it in the elevator on the way up. Like it's not that hard. This is your job. So that's actually where I was going with this, which is even if she's right to draw boundaries, let's just say, which I'm with you. I think part of being a good employee, certainly being in client service is being on top of this kind of stuff in a very basic way. But even if she's right to protect her time, there's a much smarter way to say this and a more helpful one, which is, yeah, overall things with the client are good. As far as I know, I don't think I've heard back from them.

58:16yet, but I'm going to go check my email after this. Let me check in with them, see how they're doing. I'll let you know if there are any big updates to talk about. It's simple. Why is she even bringing up the fact that she doesn't check her email on weekends? Right. Well, here's the thing. It's like she's looking for an excuse to just remind them that she doesn't want to do more work, which again, I'm not convinced that it's more worth, but you know, that's not important. It sounds like it's just work she's supposed to be doing at times that she doesn't like doing it. That's right. She could shift that to a time she does like by, I don't know, waking up five minutes earlier and checking her email, like you said, in the elevator before the Monday morning huddle.

58:52But I feel bad. I don't want this guy's nice. He's writing in. But this is like petulant child stuff. So it sounds to me like your girlfriend really actually does need to reconsider her whole approach to her job or actually need someone to point out that she's looking at all of this in a concerning way. Yes. What signals is she sending by putting up a roadblock or finding a point of conflict as opposed to framing things in a productive way, you know, with an eye toward like the solution as opposed to another problem, which is one of the greatest qualities in a colleague, in my opinion. A hundred percent.

59:22Being combative and abrasive like this, it's the kind of thing that can tank your career candidly or at least keep you stuck. So I don't envy our friend here because I think his job is actually even bigger than he thinks. It's not just, you know, you need to maybe modulate your voice a little, maybe a little less millennial, a little more Gen X speak, you know, this is how are you showing up to these interactions? You know, how are you caring for your relationship? So that's a more intense conversation, but I'm actually worried about her if she does not get this feedback. Same. If I'm working in an office environment and someone signals that they're lazy or uninterested in responsibility, I don't even want to be associated with them.

59:56I don't want that stench on me. This sounds like I'm exaggerating, but I don't want to be in the elevator with you while you're scrolling TikTok instead of your inbox because I don't want people to associate us together. Dude, to your point, she's responsible for clients. So this is a liability even beyond the company. Thank you. Good point. It just, it's not a good look. I can't highlight that. I can't overstate that. I feel like we were kind of beating a dead horse here. I think we've made our point, but I just, I'm really confused by this psychology. If you don't feel you're getting paid enough to do certain work, which isn't not even that much additional work.

1:00:28It just sounds like it's your job, but whatever. Instead of saying, yeah, I'm not doing that because boundaries, why aren't you doing the work, showing your boss how valuable you are using that to secure the salary you would want to be paid to do that same work. And then being happy that you got promoted and got compensated more. It's just, I just find this to be such a strange way of looking at things. You know what this reminds me of? A long time ago, this guy and I are still friends. He's a good dude, but we hired a kid who was pretty young back in my old company. It was hard to manage him.

1:00:57You'd tell him, we need this to get done. And he would do no work on it for three days in a row. And then you'd say, what's your ETA? And he's like, I don't know. He'd basically get him to crap out this draft version of it. And you'd go, okay, what do you think of this? And you'd go, well, I wouldn't put my name on it, but it's done. And you're like, bro, what? So we finally had a talk where we're like, hey, you can't operate like this. And he goes, if you guys want me to work harder, you need to make me a partner in the business. And we were like, if you want to be a partner, you have to absolutely blow us away and make it so that we're like, oh my God, we can never afford to lose this guy.

1:01:32A raise isn't going to cut it. We need to give him an equal equity stake in the company. We're not going to give you an equity stake in the company to motivate you to actually do the job we already pay you for. Right. Why do you think that works? Why would people want to give you that responsibility and that money? It doesn't make sense. It's because he's never had a real job and he's never had a boss. Gabe, you run in polite circles, so you probably haven't heard this, but among a lot of the ruffians that I hang out with, there'll be a kid or a guy that you talk to and they'll leave the table or whatever, and the guys will go, you can just tell that's a guy that never had his ass properly kicked.

1:02:08and what that means is like you just never had a group of friends guys colleagues a drill sergeant in the military a dad who went this is bullshit and just knocked some freaking sense into you and you can tell because they're like those little smug guys that'll make like a snide comment you're like you realize the person you're mouthing off to could break you in half with their thumbs right what are you doing what is this weird disrespect where you're putting yourself above other folks this there's a lot of guys like that they need to have life knock them around if they don't have a person to do it it's much better to get knocked around by a parental figure or a boss than it is to actually have life hand you your ass generally speaking because it takes a lot more failure for life to hand you your ass and then you are in trouble right like oh crap i ruined my career path at this tech company because i couldn't get it together this should have happened in high school.

1:03:02So there's a lot of people like that out there. And this guy was one of those people. And this is why he did that. I don't want to give this away because like, again, a good guy in many respects, he basically had to go work for a public entity that is kind of well known for, if you can get a job here, you basically never have to do any real work and you work bankers hours. You just make a middling quality of life, but no one is ever going to give you real responsibility and your check is always going to be on time. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. But, you know, not the worst outcome, but also like this kid was smart and talented, probably could have worked at a real solid tech company and had a really nice lifestyle if he could just get out of his own way.

1:03:41And that's why I'm smelling here. Well, it's interesting because our friend who's writing in just to bring it back to him is also kind of dancing around this. He's afraid doing or anything. No, he's not. That's the thing. And I think he probably senses that this might be a bit of a difficult conversation. But if he doesn't have this conversation, is she going to end up like this guy or worse? Right. Maybe like, gee, I got fired and now I can't get a letter of reference. I wonder why. Well, maybe because your boss was tearing his hair out after every interaction with you. And no, you can never work in your industry because it's too tight knit and they can't stand you.

1:04:12It's like you don't need to get to that level and have that consequence if somebody can just say, hey, stop being an asshole at work. So if you frame this as I want to see you succeed, I want to give you all the information information you need to thrive. I think I'm seeing something that might be hard for you to see. Is it cool if I share something with you? Let's explore this together. That kind of thing. It's hard to go wrong. That's a really nice way to put it. It's a tough conversation, man, but it's a really important one. And if your girlfriend makes some adjustments and starts to see better results, I really think she's going to thank you for it.

1:04:42Maybe not right away, but eventually. So good luck. All right. We'll be right back. I need to take a break because, you know, like boundaries. We'll be right back. This episode is sponsored in part by Delete Me. Delete Me makes it easy, quick, and safe to remove your personal data online at a time when surveillance and data breaches are common enough to make everyone vulnerable. As somebody with an active online presence, I definitely pay attention to my privacy. I don't want my personal info showing up on random data broker sites. Things like addresses, phone numbers, family members. It is unsettling to know that anybody could just buy that.

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1:05:48Get 20 % off your DeleteMe plan when you go to joindeleteme.com slash Jordan and use promo code Jordan at checkout. The only way to get 20 % off is to go to joindeleteme.com slash Jordan and enter code Jordan at checkout. That's joindeleteme.com slash Jordan, code Jordan. This episode is also sponsored by Function. I like to see data, tracking the numbers, seeing my baseline, spotting changes early, especially when it comes to health. That is why I choose Function Health. It is the only health platform that gives you data most people never get and the insights to actually do something about it.

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1:06:55Learn more and join using our link. Function is a near 360 view to see what's happening in your body. And our first thousand followers get a$100 credit toward their membership. Visit functionhealth.com slash Jordan, or use the gift code Jordan100 at sign up to own your health. This episode is also sponsored in part by Tonal. One of the hardest parts about going to the gym is just not knowing where to start. That's where Tonal shines. It's the ultimate strength training system that tracks your progress and takes all the guesswork out of working out so you can actually see results and keep pushing forward.

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1:08:32If that doesn't work, please email us. We'd love to dig up the code for you. It is that important that you support those who support the show. Now for the recommendation of the week. My recommendation of the week is a star projector. I think this is also called a galaxy light or sometimes it's called a planetarium projector. So this is one of those devices that projects cool images on your ceiling like stars and planets and kind of milky galaxy type images, all kinds of colors and shapes. This was one of my favorite things back home. And then I ended up getting a new one in Germany and traveling around with it.

1:09:05And I would plug it in wherever I went. It just made every hotel room or Airbnb or random guest room I ended up in more interesting. So these things used to be kind of cheesy. But in the last few years, they've gotten really good. And they're just an awesome way to create a fun vibe in your living room or your bedroom. And they're great for parties and they're great for movie nights and decorating. I hear kids love them. They could be great in a kid's bedroom or nursery. They also make for great gifts. My kids, we have one of these. Jen bought it. She's like, trust me, this is going to be cool.

1:09:33And I was like, ugh, these stupid things. It's awesome. So you have one. We have. That's amazing. My kids love it. It has like galaxies and stars. They're probably not accurate. No. Astronomy. Not at all. It doesn't matter. It also does like rainbow colored lighting and like almost like a smoky looking thing. That's why I say galaxies. But I'm a big fan. It's super cool. It's a really cool nightlight, mood light. It gets the kids thinking, asking questions about space, thinking about the universe. And they're very reasonable. You can get a good one for like$30 or something. Yeah, with a remote and a timer and a music thing and a different zillion modes.

1:10:07It's basically just a cheap light. I mean, but it's, yeah, it's very cool. I've had a few models over the years. They all basically do the same thing, but some of them have cool features like a special moon or certain colors and a motor that moves the stars around or whatever. So we'll link to three or four options in the show notes. Enjoy. Good one, Gabe. Also, in case you all don't know, there's a subreddit for the show if you want to jump into discussions with other listeners about specific episodes, recommendations, and the like. It's over on the Jordan Harbinger subreddit. All right. What's next?

1:10:34Hey, Jordan and Gabe. I had a successful business for 20 years. I am a planner and a saver. I recently closed my business and am now able to live off of investments. Wow, nicely done. I'm going to go ahead and guess that you did not do this by not answering your emails after 5 p.m. Not that we're hung up on this at all. No, definitely not still worked up about this person I don't even know or don't have to manage. My dilemma is that I live in the wonderful but complicated Midwest, and in my local area it is unfathomable to most people that I am able to do this. when i'm honest with people i get negative reactions questions or an awkward silence interest so i'm from michigan as y 'all know i can totally see this happening really yeah i'm from near detroit the path for most people look at the path for most people at least in my parents generation was you work for ford or as we call it in michigan fords i don't know why they do really yeah they make everything possessive do you know that that's one of my biggest pet peeves i can only imagine i hate when people put in a possessive after a thing that doesn't when they're like mccormick and schmicks or whatever yeah is that i'm making that up but is that i don't think that's no that's about right yeah i don't know why we do that i don't know if that has to do with like the slavic and polish immigration and like language stuff or if it's maybe but they do in la too they'll be like we're going to palomino's i'm like is palomino b stop saying that so you work for fords you retire at 65 you get a pension in my area growing up the only entrepreneurs were immigrants.

1:12:04There were two Chinese families on my street. One of them owned a dry cleaner, the other one owned a Chinese restaurant. They were Greek people. They all owned restaurants, almost every single one of them that I knew. So anyone who does it differently, it's just confusing. It took years for my dad to wrap his head around what I do for a living. For years after I left the law, he was like, I don't really get how you make money. I just don't understand it. I'm like, yeah, dad, you're from Michigan. There are other ways to live. I get paid by average. He's like, I guarantee you he still doesn't fully understand how this all works.

1:12:35Does not compute. This goal that I worked hard for has left me in an awkward social situation. I am proud of this accomplishment and this ability to spend more time with family, but I don't know how to address it when others ask, what do you do or where do you work? Maybe if I lived in an area with different socioeconomics or I was in the military, it wouldn't be so weird. it would be weirder if you were in the military and you were retired at 47 years old right yeah maybe anyway what advice do you have on how to approach this signed navigating this insecurely when i managed to kick back early i think you just lie to everyone and tell them you were in the special forces problem solved but like famously do those people retire wealthy early no that doesn't work tell them you do only fan there it is yeah there you go definitely won't end up with more questions after that.

1:13:24No, but is this a man or a woman? It's a woman. Oh, okay. Definitely go with only. Actually, you know, interesting. Do you think she's getting these reactions because she's a woman? Oh, that could be part of it. Because if it were a man, they'd be like, oh yeah, you're a man. You do investments. I got it. And she's a woman. They're like, what? They don't know how to make. You sold a business. What, a knitting business? Exactly. You own three properties, but you got long hair. Yeah. I don't get it. I understand. How do you have a checking account if you're a woman? But hats off to you for being so enterprising and disciplined and being able to retire relatively.

1:13:55Incredible. It's awesome and super inspiring. And I'm quite fascinated and intrigued by this response you're getting. Honestly, I wonder if these people are more surprised and intrigued by your situation than they are skeptical and judgmental. Sometimes they can those things can look similar if people aren't coming right out and saying, like, damn, I can't believe you're 48 and retired. I didn't know that was possible. Please explain. Maybe you're interpreting their response in a certain way. I don't know. But anyway, I will take you at your word that you're getting negative reactions. So let's assume that at least some of these responses are in fact kind of weird.

1:14:27My first thought is, so stinking what? So what if people are judgy, skeptical, or have questions or don't know what to say? You're killing it. Cool. Anyone who doesn't hear this and go, holy smokes, that's amazing. Congrats. How'd you do it? They're just missing the point. Also, any negative reactions you get from people, any judgment about your financial situation, it's ultimately a reflection of them their ideas about how people should live their lives their feelings around money their insecurity their envy their fear their lack of curiosity their weird feelings about women being good with money or whatever it is yeah yeah so i guess my take there is i just think you need to learn to worry less about other people's reactions to this because a whatever the reaction is it sounds like it's ultimately a reflection of the same discomfort or judgment and that just has nothing to do with you and b it literally just doesn't matter the only thing that matters is how you take care of yourself and what you think about yourself whether you find your life rewarding and meaningful yeah although maybe it does matter to her in the sense that people might treat her differently and so she has a different standing in her community or something because of her to make friends yeah maybe job that everyone feels like you look down on them even though it's not true it also might be interesting for her to consider why these people's reactions affect her so much maybe that's part of the midwestern thing too or just coming from a certain background or a certain community or a certain size town again coming from the midwest i do think there's an impulse to want to be seen a certain way wanting to fit in not wanting to come across as a show off uh like if i do well then people are going to think i'm like high and mighty or yeah australia has this thing too all poppies yeah and it's like oh look you started your own business well smell you right it's like what did i do it's not fair really what's interesting though is that she's lived her life in a very intentional way and that has put her on a very different path from most people so of course she's going to get some unusual reactions if she didn't want unusual reactions she could have lived her life the way most people in her area do and she probably would not be retired at 48 exactly and that's why i think she needs to let go of this need to be responded to in a certain way.

1:16:32Because you're right, that's only confirmation that she's done something remarkable. It's also possible, and I think you were circling this a moment ago, Jordan, it's possible that she's projecting a little bit some of her own judgments onto these people. I'm not saying that she's making all of this up. These people might, in fact, be awkward or turned off or nosy or whatever, but she might be bringing her own stuff to these conversations. And what's actually just shock or befuddlement or confusion, intrigue on their part, that might end up feeling to her like something worse. That's probably true.

1:17:02Otherwise, why would these people's responses affect her? Yeah, they would have to chime with some part of her that is kind of vulnerable to those opinions. I strongly suspect that's playing some role here, but there might be a few things going on, including maybe some shame about doing so well and getting to live life on her own terms so much earlier than most people. But look, you do not need to be ashamed about that. What you've done is hugely impressive. It's inspiring. You didn't luck into the money, didn't win the lottery, it wasn't handed to you. You saved and planned and invested, and now you get to enjoy that.

1:17:33So my hope for you is that you can learn to tolerate these responses a little bit better, put them in context a little more, notice the parts of yourself that might be feeding these negative interpretations, and then maybe have a little more fun with these conversations. Maybe it can be a little game. How weird is this person going to act when I tell them I don't have to work anymore, and I haven't hit menopause yet. I don't know. Maybe even say to them, I know it's crazy. I'm living the life of a pensioner at 48. I get to enjoy my investments without osteoporosis and dementia. Maybe you just need a little humor to disarm people and show them that you're down to earth.

1:18:06You could even say, I know it can be an awkward subject. I honestly can't tell what reaction you're having right now, but this happened because I scrimped and saved and invested, which is my goal to enjoy all this. If you have any questions about it, I'm happy to talk and basically just invite these people to follow their curiosity. more than their judgment. I think that's what I would do. And if you really can't stand these conversations or you live in an area where people truly don't want to know how well you're doing, you can always just not talk about this and keep it vague. That's an option too.

1:18:33But I wouldn't do it to spare other people their complicated feelings about something that, assuming you're not being a total a-hole about it, which I doubt you are, is objectively awesome. You should be proud of it. Congrats, my friend. Enjoy your life. Use this financial freedom to keep learning about yourself and keep growing. Yeah, and to support our sponsors. Of course, you clearly have enough money to buy a new mattress and some bougie protein pasta. All right, y 'all, go back and check out Dr. Lane Norton, Uba Butler, and our Skeptical Sunday on OnlyFans if you haven't done so yet. The best things that have happened in my life and business have come through my network, the circle of people I know, like, and trust.

1:19:08I'm teaching you how to build the same thing for yourself in our 6-Minute Networking course. It is free. It's not gross. It's not schmoozy. You can find it on the Thinkific platform at 6minutenetworking.com. Dig that well before you get thirsty, folks. Build relationships before you need them. Again, it's all free over at 6minutenetworking.com. Advertisers, discounts, ways to support the show on the website at jordanharbinger.com slash deals. I'm at jordanharbinger on Twitter and Instagram. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn. Gabe's over on Instagram at Gabriel Mizrahi. This show is created in association with Podcast One.

1:19:40My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace, Sanderson, Robert Fogarty, Ian Baird, Tata Sadlowskis, and of course, Gabriel Mizrahi. Our advice and opinions are our own. I am a lawyer, but I am not your lawyer. Do your own research before implementing anything you hear on the show. Remember, we rise by lifting others. Share the show with those you love. If you found the episode useful, please share it with somebody else who could use the advice we gave here today. In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn. And we'll see you next time. Imagine a world where money, religion, and nations are shifting under the rise of AI capable of making decisions beyond human control.

1:20:17Humans are very good in solving problems, but they often focus on the wrong problems. The idea that information is truth, people will have more knowledge, everything will be okay. This is extremely naive. Most information isn't truth. It is fictions and fantasies and delusions and errors and lies and so forth. The truth is a very rare and costly kind of information, which is why if you flood the world with information, the truth will not float up. it will sink to the bottom. Democracies all over the world are currently in crisis. They are undermined because of manipulations by AI. The one thing everybody should know is that AI is not a tool, it is an agent.

1:21:00AI can make decisions by itself. We already have autonomous weapon systems. It can even invent new weapons. Social media algorithms are currently the most powerful editors in the world. They increase user engagement by manipulating billions. The easiest way to capture people's attention is by spreading outrage. I'm not saying, oh, we should stop development of AI. No. Of course, there is enormous positive potential. Otherwise, we wouldn't develop it. The key question is, how do we enable the positive potential of AI to flower while avoiding the really existential risks this technology poses. Join me on episode 1068 as Yuval Noah Harari explores the risks and responsibilities we face as AI transforms our society.