1268: A Week After Hospice, Dad's Got a New Mrs. | Feedback Friday

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24:02Thank you for listening to and supporting the show. Your support of our sponsors keeps the lights on around here. Actually, it doesn't keep the lights on all the time, but it keeps the smoker working in the backyard on busy days. And maybe, just maybe, I can wash my butt sometimes. Anyway, they're all searchable and clickable on the website at jordanharbinger.com slash deals. Please consider supporting those who support the show. Now, back to Feedback Friday. Okay, what's next? Hi, Jordan and Gabe. I first wrote you back in 2023. I was navigating a career transition from bedside nursing where I'd worked for 10 years into a role as a company manager of a mental health consulting company.

24:40You helped me through multiple challenges, including setting me up with a wonderful style coach and negotiating for compensation that reflected my hard work and experience. I'm happy to say that I have finally achieved a career as a behavioral healthcare advocate for a major health insurance company. It's a fully remote role offering great hours, excellent salary and benefits, and a strong team with great leadership. I've also made huge strides in my mental and physical health over the past few years. I was incredibly depressed for a time and relapsed badly into disordered eating. I've dealt with anorexia on and off since age 14.

25:17I've managed to find an antidepressant that actually works as well as supportive friends and social support. Over the past few years, I've gained almost 45 pounds, so I'm now healthy instead of skeletal, started dressing well and caring for my physical health, and built incredible muscle and stamina by doing indoor rowing and walking every day. That's amazing. Well done, my friend. That is a ton of growth in a relatively short amount of time. You should be really proud of yourself. I've been single since 2012, and I truly believe that ship had sailed. I've never wanted kids and thought I was incapable of dating, in addition to being completely undesirable.

25:56Then this year, a good friend convinced me to get on Bumble and give it a shot. Eventually, I met Frank. Frank lives 45 minutes away in a small college town. I am miserable in suburbia. It's not the place for a child-free woman with pit bulls and a motorcycle. And I've been debating where to relocate for a long time. Frank and I headed off, and I'm really happy with him. We've now been dating for about four months. We see each other three to four times a week and text daily. We both deleted our dating apps a while back, and he met my family at Thanksgiving. It went great, and my family likes him a lot.

26:30He's very supportive of my decision to remain child-free, and he said he's perfectly content not having children himself. The issue is, I don't know if he likes me, finds me attractive, cares about me, or really anything. We hug, kiss, cuddle, we've slept together a few times, and he's physically affectionate, but he's never said anything about caring about me, or if he thinks I'm remotely attractive. The way he talks feels like I'm just a buddy. There's no affection or emotion at all. I've tried expressing how I feel to him, and I even tried to talk to him about this. When I brought it up, he quickly said, of course I like you and think you're attractive, cuddled up and gave me a kiss, and changed the subject so fast I don't even know how he managed it.

27:18Interesting. I'm just not confident that he really cares about me at all. My low self-esteem doesn't help. I feel like I'm an ugly tomboy, so why would anyone like me, much less love me? Oh man, that's tough to hear. But I hear you. These are the thoughts that come up, and they're strong. We'll talk about it. This sounds crazy, but he verbalizes more affection to my dogs than he does to me. He literally tells my dogs he loves them, but not me. He says how much he misses my dogs, but not me. If I send a picture of my dogs, he says how he wants to cuddle with them, but never anything about wanting to be close to me.

27:54It's not like I'm jealous of my dogs, but why does he seem to have stronger feelings about them? I'm tempted to just tell him that I like him a lot and am happy with him, but since he doesn't seem to feel the same way, maybe we should split up so he can find someone he feels more attracted to? This is all uncharted territory for me, and I'm tired of stressing and feeling awful about not being more attractive. Maybe if I were, he wouldn't have an issue expressing himself. So, what do I do? Make another attempt to talk to him? except that he seems to want to date me despite not thinking I'm pretty or attractive or desirable?

28:28Or do I tell him we should split up since he doesn't seem to have any kind of feeling about our relationship? Signed, taken aback, trying to bounce back, and wondering if I need to backtrack in the absence of my boyfriend's feedback. Oh man, tough letter. Beautiful letter in so many ways. Like I said, it's absolutely incredible how far you've come, but I can hear that these feelings and ideas you have about yourself are very difficult. And I'm sure you're doing the math on how they've also informed the anorexia, the depression. I know healing has to happen on many different levels and sometimes we make progress in one area, like with the mood or the physical health stuff, but a lot of the old stuff can linger.

29:07So I really appreciate you sharing so much with us. I know this is not easy to talk about, but your willingness to explore all this, I'm sure that's one big reason you've come such a long way. So I kind of want to come at this from a couple angles. Let's start with Frank. It sounds to me like Frank is really great in a lot of ways. He's supportive. He's kind. He's physically affectionate. Your family loves him. On the other hand, he's kind of a locked box. He's not very generous or loving with his words. You feel like he treats you more like a friend. And when you talk to him about it, he kind of shuts down, puts a band-aid on it, changes the subject, which, first of all, well done on bringing that up with him in the first place.

29:43It's an uncomfortable conversation to have. I commend you for wanting to talk to him about it, giving both of you a chance to understand that better and get some clarity. Second, I'm sorry he responded like that. That clearly did not answer your question in a meaningful way. It sounds like he missed the opportunity to fully acknowledge you, understand this problem better, and then either say, you're right, we aren't on the same page here, or help you understand why he sends that signal when he actually does have strong feelings for you. I don't know, Gabe, I'm getting sort of typical guy vibes from this dude.

30:14Yeah, whatever. Like, I told her I liked her, and I snuggled the dog, and then I brought a cake. So, like, of course she knows I'm deeply in love with her. No, bro, she doesn't. Yeah. So the fact that he responded that way, I think it might potentially be helpful in one big way, which is I'm kind of getting the sense that it's just really hard for this guy to be vulnerable. Yeah. It's good for her to know that. He sounds avoidant. He sounds blocked. He sounds like 80 % of the men that you're going to meet on Bumble or any app for that matter. And I'm guessing it's very hard for him to show you or tell you how he truly feels one way or the other for the same reasons that it was hard to even hang in that conversation with you when you brought it up because it's probably very real and very exposing for him.

30:54Yeah. And for him to acknowledge how exposing this whole relationship is for her. Yeah. Back and forth. So look, I don't know what's in Frank's heart. I can't tell you with 100 % certainty that he's head over heels for you in every single way and he has no complaints and no reservations and he's just shy or whatever. I understand why you're confused about his inner world. It's hard for me to get a read on it, too. However, I am not convinced that Frank thinks of you only as a friend or that he doesn't care about you. Because first of all, he's with you. You guys see each other four times a week.

31:24You text with each other every single day. You guys are physically intimate. You're involved with each other. It's been four months. Do people stay with somebody they're not into for four months? Maybe it happens. He is avoidant, so maybe he's afraid to hurt you. But do people regularly stay with people they're not into for four months and hug and kiss and cuddle them and talk about how much time they want to spend with their dogs and go to Thanksgiving together. Probably not. I do find it a little curious that you've only slept together a few times as per the letter when you've been together for four months.

31:55Yeah, that detail did stand out to me, but it's unclear what that's about. Is he not interested? Is she not interested? Like what's going on? Right, we kind of don't know. I know sex drives are different and personally my hormones are through the roof. I'm 45, but this is a little unusual, right? Like they're dating, they spend all this time together. If I'm dating somebody and I'm seeing a woman four times a week, I'm trying to have sex like three times a week. Look, if she's saying, I don't want to have sex because I, I don't know, feel insecure or something, and he's going, okay, I understand.

32:23That's one thing. And that means that he is probably very genuinely interested in her because he's sticking around, right? If he's showing almost no interest in having sex, then maybe that paints a different picture. Although it still doesn't automatically mean he isn't into her because that still means they aren't having sex and he still wants to hang out with her. But it is an interesting data point in all of this. Of course, everyone's needs and interests in sexuality are they're different. So we can't know for sure. But despite all that, the sense I'm getting, Gabe, tell me if you agree. The sense I get is that Frank is just he's just really bad at expressing himself in a variety of ways.

32:58And I think he finds it hard to express himself verbally. He struggles to open up. He's not being very generous or transparent about his feelings. Again, typical guy stuff. And in that vacuum, her worst thoughts are running wild. So I do think now we need to take this from her angle. Yes. He doesn't tell her that he's into her, so she assumes she's unattractive. He doesn't tell her how much he cares about her, so she assumes he doesn't love her. In fact, that she's unlovable. She's saying maybe if I were prettier, he wouldn't have a problem expressing himself. I do not think that is true. I doubt that.

33:29I think one probably has very little, if anything, to do with the other, actually. Same. I think it's very possible that he's terrified of telling her how much he likes her, how he feels, because it means opening up to her. And it might not be that he's not into her whatsoever. It might be that he's into her too much and he doesn't feel like he can control it, that it's too much for him to know what to do with. So he's protecting himself. I used to be like that in college. And then that's going through this very unique filter in her. So our friend here has this pre-existing narrative about her worthiness, her attractiveness.

34:00This response from a partner would understandably lead to the worst possible thoughts. Even the thing about the dog, she's saying he verbalizes more affection to my dogs than he does to me. Why does he seem to have stronger feelings about them? Look, I might be wrong, but I wonder if the dogs are like a proxy for her. What he can't express to her, he expresses to the dogs about the dogs. They might be a kind of safer object for him to love because, you know, they're dogs. Yeah, interesting. That makes sense. Like they won't turn to him and go, okay, you rubbed my ears and gave me a treat, but do you really love me?

34:31Yeah, exactly. Like you walked me for an hour and cuddled with me all afternoon while we binge watched the pit. But like, do you really think I'm cute? No, that's not going to happen. It's funny, this reminds me of something that happened many, many years ago. This was right around the time I got Drake. I was seeing a girl, wonderful girl. We had a really nice thing, but it was not the right fit at all. And one night she was over at my place and she was in the kitchen pouring a glass of water or something. I was standing in the doorway talking to her and I was holding Drake. And I can't remember exactly what happened.

35:01I think she stubbed her toe against the fridge. She had a little meltdown about it. She was being kind of extra. And instead of going over to her and asking her if she was okay, I reflexively kissed Drake on the head. That's funny. And she got mad at me. She was like, what the hell? Maybe come be nice to me instead of kissing your cat. Yeah, that's the funniest fight I've ever heard. That's actually funnier than my smoker curtain fight that I had over Christmas. I didn't even realize I had done it until she pointed it out. But I think looking back, it's so ridiculous. But I think Drake was like the easier one for me at that time in my life to comfort in that moment.

35:38I was the Frank and Drake was the pit bull. And for reasons, you know, that were partly about me and perhaps partly about the relationship or whatever, the pet sort of mediated an experience between us. And I think that might be what's going on here. That's interesting. So you make a good point. Are the dogs the excuse? Are they the safe territory for him to express his love for her? I could see that. I think it's possible. Okay. This is the shape of the dynamic, right? Frank avoiding and you seeking. Frank withholding and then you spiraling. You looking for him even more, wanting to pin him down, let him in on your experience of things.

36:11And Frank fleeing, reassuring, changing the subject, trying to make it okay. And then the cycle perpetuates itself. Not an uncommon template for partners to fall into. And probably taps into the origins of so many of these other challenges that she's been dealing with. So I do think it's worth making another attempt to talk to him, hopefully in a new way. one way to do that would be to say, listen, Frank, I'm really enjoying my time with you. You're great in so many ways. I love sharing the dogs with you. I love bringing you around my family. I love our hangouts. I also have to tell you, and I tried to do this before, but I want to try to be clearer this time.

36:46I want to tell you that the way you relate to me, the way you communicate, or perhaps don't, I find it confusing a lot of the time when you don't tell me in words how you feel about me, when you aren't super forthcoming with your affection or your emotions, that leaves me wondering where we stand with each other, whether we're actually on the same page. Now, I also know that I have some self-esteem issues. So when you withhold words or affection, that tends to confirm some fears that I have about myself. And I'm not putting that all on you, but I need you to know that that's what happens on my end when you act this way.

37:19So part of me is tempted to say, like, should we break up so you can find somebody else? But another part of me wants to give us a chance to try this in a new way, to give you a chance to tell me how you really feel to understand me better. And specifically, I really want to understand if it's hard for you to be honest with me, whether that's about how much you like me, or that you might not want to be in this relationship anymore, if that's the case. And is there anything I can do to make that easier for you? Because this kind of communicating is making it hard for me to fully enjoy our relationship without feeling a lot of stress and sadness.

37:51Yeah, I like that. But you're assuming that she's willing to hear something that might be hard to hear. I am. I'm assuming that she's there. I mean, look, Jordan, I'm with you. I think this guy is definitely into her. I get the sense that he really does like being with her. But if this is not the guy for her, which there is a possibility, or if he's been withholding something big from her, I'm assuming that she would rather know that now. I get it. And yeah, I agree. I think he is into her, but we have to acknowledge there's a version where he isn't or their feelings are mismatched or that something else will come out of this that she's just not expecting.

38:22But that is also ultimately for the good. But the whole point is that he's not being forthcoming, which is worse, hearing something painful in the short term or going through this agony all the time when she doesn't actually know what he feels. No, for sure. I just want her to be ready for that conversation because that might be tough for both of them. I totally agree. But I also feel like she can look at his behavior and factor that in as well. He might not be articulating every feeling he has, but I think he is showing her how he feels. And look, you might also want to say the last time we talked about this, it seemed to me that you quickly reassured me, gave me a kiss, changed the subject.

38:53I appreciate that you wanted me to feel better, but that's not actually what I want. That's not ultimately very helpful. Right. What I want is to understand how you truly feel and to communicate with each other better. Exactly. And then see how he responds in an appropriate way. Don't let him off the hook too easily. Right. If he reassures you and kisses your forehead and tries to hit play on the pit or whatever, you can say, thank you. I know you want to be nice, but that's not really what I'm looking for. And if he changes the subject, you can say, sorry, I know this isn't an easy conversation, but I'd really appreciate it if we can stick with what we're talking about.

39:24And look, you might not get the outcome you're hoping for, or actually, let me back up. Maybe it would be good to define what a good outcome for you would even be. To Gabe's point, I think a good outcome is any outcome that is honest. Any outcome that leads to you guys being more open and trusting with each other. I totally agree. By that rubric, it's kind of hard to fail. My hope is that he opens up to her about why it's so hard for him to be affectionate and validating and vulnerable with her. and then they keep working on it. He tries to be more generous. She learns to take that in and trust it.

39:54They just get better at communicating. It's also possible that he says some version of, of course, I'm really into you. I just don't know how to express that. I don't want to work on it at all. Yeah, in which case I might say you have to decide if you can live with that and maybe start to look at his behavior rather than his words to get a good read on how he truly feels about you. Like the fact that he wants to see you four times a week and text you every day. I think that's kind of says a lot. Right, but it's also possible that nothing changes, in which case you're really going to have to decide if this is a deal breaker.

40:22I can't tell you if it is for sure. That's up to you to decide. But it's interesting because if it is a deal breaker, I wonder, is it a deal breaker because he's withholding or is it a deal breaker because he doesn't want to work on things, doesn't want to listen to her and want to be in this process with her? That's right. There's something deeper here than just how often he says, you're hot. I like you. I value you. That's what they really need to talk about. And by the way, four months into a relationship. This is kind of when it happens, so you're right on schedule. All that said, though, whether Frank changes or not, I do think this is an opportunity for you to notice the story that you have.

40:55These painful thoughts that come up when you don't have all the information you want. Figure out where exactly they came from and learn to take better care of yourself because they obviously didn't originate with Frank. I'm not letting him off the hook for being avoidant and withholding. That's really challenging. But I think being with a person who is that way is putting you in touch with more of you, which is what all relationships do. And the gift of this painful situation might be the opportunity to notice what happens when you're in a relationship, the mirror that another person holds up to us, even when they're distant, even in their absence, and simultaneously work on that.

41:32Totally agree, which is a great thing to do in therapy. I'm not sure if you're there. It sounds like you have a psychiatrist, but you're working for a company in the mental health space and they have great benefits. So if you're not, now might be the time to start. You've been through a lot in the last couple years. And the latest stuff with Frank, it's just such valuable stuff to explore with a professional. You're doing great. Keep up the amazing work and we're rooting for you. You can reach us Friday at jordanharbinger.com. Please keep your emails concise. Try to use descriptive subject lines.

42:01That makes our job a whole lot easier. If you're trying to repair your relationship with your challenging family, your close friend is spiraling after discovering her husband had an affair with a woman who probably poisoned her beloved dog, or you need to call out a creepy peer in your professional group who's thrown you for a loop without causing a scene, whatever's got you staying up at night lately, hit us up Friday at jordanharbinger.com. We're here to help, and we keep every email anonymous. By the way, if you haven't signed up yet, come check out our newsletter, We Bit Wiser. It is a bite-sized gem from a past episode from Us to You, delivered to your inbox most Wednesdays.

42:32If you want to keep up with the wisdom from 1 ,000-plus episodes and apply it to your life, I invite you to come check it out. Jordan Harbinger dot com slash news is where you can find it. All right. What's next? Dear Jordan and Gabe, I'm an investigative video journalist with 15 years in media, including solo regional Emmy nominations. I sought out a data analytics professional certificate to pivot to data journalism and secure a remote role that better accommodated my life as a new military spouse, which proved essential as we made four cross country moves in seven years. Jeez, that's a lot of change.

43:06Yeah, super intense. Congrats on the Emmy nominations. That's impressive. I also live with severe and aggressive, deeply infiltrating endometriosis, making symptom management a constant challenge. I've had two surgeries with specialists, and they had to remove multiple damaged organs. Man, I'm so sorry. I've read about how painful endometriosis is. What a thing to deal with. Despite my illness, my current work is high value. In the two years I've been with the company, I successfully advocated for a raise and promotion to elevate the company's exposure through video. Working from home, I've rarely missed work and haven't exceeded my company's standard sick leave.

43:42I was told that a second raise slash promotion would come if I could produce metrics proving video's value. I grew our sleepy and lackluster YouTube channel, getting it monetized to open a new revenue stream. Again, amazing. You sound like a super valuable employee. Recently, I've been recovering from a severe E. coli infection, which, because of my endometriosis, put me at high risk for complications that would cause further internal adhesions and organ damage. I was placed on a doctor-mandated six-hour daily work restriction after the recovery, and the paperwork was approved and processed by HR.

44:16The restriction was meant to give me more time to rest, recover, and set boundaries for the increasingly common requests that I get from other reporters. During that time, a major on-site conference, basically my company's Super Bowl, was set to take place. I communicated to my bosses weeks before that I was not at 100%, but didn't want to miss the event because it offered so many video opportunities that would continue to drive our growth. I expressed that I would just take breaks and pace myself. The day before the conference, the senior manager who was supposed to lead our coverage announced that she wouldn't be attending as she had strep throat, leaving a mess of unmanaged and unfinished planning.

44:52No one communicated my limited hours to the remaining team or delegated the manager's duties. Then, one of the only two remaining employees on the trip announced he had a cold and wouldn't be able to do as much. I realized, despite my efforts to formally document my situation, I was now the assumed person to take over, due to my co-workers' acute illnesses that I have no reason to believe were officially recognized by a doctor. When I asked the senior manager about navigating the schedule and duties with my restricted hours, she told me to quote-unquote nudge the co-worker and quote, just do what you can, unquote.

45:26The stress of covering for a no-show manager dealing with the haphazard planning and being personally criticized by the CEO, who felt that I didn't do a good enough job establishing our presence at the event, as it wasn't up to par with our quote-unquote big dog energy, caused a massive flare in my pain and symptoms. This was especially difficult as it was my first time meeting the CEO in person, and I had hoped to impress her to increase the chances of getting that second promotion. I messaged my department head and received a vague two-sentence apology with no actionable items. Two hours later, when the CEO and a VP approached me with requests, I asked if they were aware that I was on medically reduced hours.

46:08They said they had no idea and appeared genuinely surprised and concerned. To their credit, high-level leaders did step in to help me with some basic tasks. I also received an apology email from the chief people officer confirming the communication failure and enforcing the six-hour stop. Okay, that's good. I'm sorry it was a cluster, but it sounds like they finally understood the severity of the situation and did the right thing. It really sounds like poor management and communication, plain and simple. But the CEO's comments still felt patronizing, such as, remember, you have no more hours. We have to get you right to your hotel room.

46:42I worked well past six hours with the travel, setup, and event logistics on the first day of the conference. Interesting. Hard to tell if there really was subtext to that. Patronizing. Let's come back to that. Do I have any legal standing to pursue repercussions from this blatant failure to accommodate this illness? Is it stupid to quit the salary job right now to become a full-time independent investigative data journalist, especially given that Gen. AI is slashing editorial budgets, signed, looking for remedies after my company rather messily failed to accommodate this credibly, even though I notified the deputies on a day that, incredibly, was a recipe for handling this unsuccessfully.

47:23Man, what a tough situation. I'm very sorry you've struggled with all this health stuff. That is awful. The fact that you're performing at this level while also dealing with all of these challenges is incredible. You sound like a super driven person, very dedicated, very tenacious, and I really admire that. And I'm sorry to hear that things went sideways at this big event, that sucks, especially because it wasn't really your fault and then you got blamed for it. We wanted to run this by an expert, so we reached out to Joanna Tate, friend of the show and HR professional for over 20 years, and the first thing Joanna said was that, in her opinion, overall, corporate society in the U.S.

47:55is not very skilled at handling disability and recuperation time. In her view, we're a nonstop productivity culture, go, go, go, to the point that when a team member becomes unable to assume full duty, people often just don't know how to accommodate that. Not just like from an HR policy perspective, but like, how do we make sense of this? How do we empathize with somebody who's having health stuff and allow for them to operate at less than 100 %? Joanna was very clear. In her view, your reduction in work hours should have been communicated to the entire group way before the event in an appropriate way.

48:26Joanna pointed out that if an NFL team wants to win a Super Bowl, the head coach doesn't go, yeah, all right, let's put the guy with the torn ACL and the diminished lung capacity on the starting lineup. Somebody in the HR department or your manager should have communicated with the entire team that you would be at a reduced capacity, duh. And the senior manager should have had a backup plan in place. It should have been something like, Maxine's going to be working six hours each day and no more. If we need more work, Jim and Nadine, you guys step in. And there should have been a backup plan for Jim and Nadine too.

48:55You might have also needed a wingman through some of this. That said, Joanna said that your plan, attending the event to jump on those good opportunities and taking breaks, pacing yourself. That was a good plan, but only if all of the other pieces of the plan did not fall apart if all the other team members didn't have any last minute crises. Dude, this is so frustrating. It's so frustrating, especially since you documented all of this the right way and your doctor's literally like, yeah, she is temporarily disabled. Red parking pass, hanging from the mirror. Whereas frickin' Lorraine and Steve woke up on the morning of the Super Bowl and they're like, sorry, I have a cold.

49:28Oh no. Which is extra uncool given they probably knew about your situation and how high the stakes were. I'm just imagining this dude being like, oh yeah, you have, what is it called? Deeply infiltrating endometriosis. And he's like, I have a sore throat and she has a runny nose. So we're all at diminished capacity here, Maxine. Sorry to say, we're all going to have to pick up the slack. It's just like, give me a break, dude. Which does make me wonder about the culture of this place, but that's a whole other issue. Same. And also, does our friend here care more about this job and the event than everyone else does?

50:01Not a bad quality by any means, but it can create issues when everybody else is obviously just phoning it in. That's a good point. Are they coasting because she cares so much and she's known for picking up the slack? Who knows? But the fact that the person with literal acute endometriosis, organ damage and severe E. coli infection. Yeah, she's also an overachiever even when it comes to her illnesses. Just want to point that out. That's right. Yeah, seriously, that employee was like, yeah, I'm still going to be there. I just can't work as many hours and I need some support because otherwise I'm going to go to the hospital and I have a note from a doctor.

50:32And then, yeah, Steve's got a runny nose and doesn't want to wear a mask. You know, look, I'm not saying they're necessarily wrong to have stayed home. It's just interesting that they're taking a sick day on one of the biggest days of the year and she's still going into battle. These are the people who tend to get promotions. I mean, this woman is dedicated, but she might also not want to be seen as the sick one. And there are upsides and downsides to that. Anyway, Joanna's feeling was the fact that they had unmanaged pieces of the plan the day before the event led her to believe that maybe the company did not have the right leader in place.

51:05But you also agreed to participate in a situation where you might not have been able to jump in as needed if anything fell through, and it did fall through. Right. So that might be the main takeaway here, how wanting to be a big dog and step in without the proper plans and protections in place that came from a good place. but it also seems to have exposed you to the risk of criticism. By the way, big dog, such an annoying phrase. Thank you. I can't deal with it. As you can tell, my eyes rolled so far I had to rip my desk to avoid falling over. Companies love this stuff. Rockstar, big dog, alpha.

51:37If you guys are such big dogs, if you're trying to clinch your journalism Super Bowl ring or whatever, maybe Steve shouldn't be sleeping off his sinus infection at the Ramada. Just saying. Joanna wanted to be clear. She's not blaming you. She's just saying this was a high-risk move if you're aiming to maintain a very strong perception of your work. Let's talk about the CEO's comments, the ones that felt patronizing. Like I said, I'm not 100 % sure that's what she intended. The sense I get is that the CEO was genuinely concerned both about her and about making sure that the company was doing right by this doctor-validated disability.

52:10Yeah, same. It's also a legal liability, so the CEO is also a human being. She's not going to be like, oh, you're deeply infiltrating endometriosis. again, Steve had a sore throat this morning, so we're all playing with an arm tied behind our back. Look, we weren't there. She might have said, now remember, we have to get Maxine back to her hotel because she just can't work very hard right now. There might have been a look in her eye or whatever. But my gut is telling me that our friend heard it that way, which someone who holds herself to very high standards, who doesn't want to be seen as weak or difficult, who, as she pointed out, worked well past the six hours she was supposed to be capped at to handle all the work on the first day, a person like that, I think, might be particularly primed to hear an innocent comment like that in a certain way.

52:52I think that's exactly what happened, which is interesting for her to notice because this accommodation is also exactly what she wanted. Maybe not from the CEO herself, but from her managers. But then when it comes, it feels disempowering, condescending, maybe embarrassing. And I got to think at least some of that is being informed by her own feelings about her limitations right now. Yes, the stories we start to tell when raw information goes through the prism of our beliefs, our feelings, our fears, like it's just like the previous question, right? It's an interesting theme today. Anyway, Joanna agreed.

53:22She said it sounded like the CEO was speaking out of genuine concern for you. But again, none of us were there. So we didn't hear the tone. So to answer your question, only a lawyer can help you decide if you have a case here. But Joanna wanted to give you a couple things to think about. First, given what we just talked about, how your company definitely messed up, but you also put yourself in a situation where you took a hit, that might complicate the picture a little bit. what Joanna's encouraging you to see in the spirit of empowering you and helping you manage stuff like this better in the future is that there were a couple things you could have done to avoid this.

53:52Communicating more explicitly with all the right parties, helping your team come up with a solid plan, maybe a backup plan for that plan, whatever else they needed. So maybe it's not as simple as, well, my company, they were dicks and I'm going to sue them. Her other thought for you was if you decide to talk with a lawyer, you don't want to leave your position just yet. Your goal should be to understand what your protections and options might be here and to find out if you have any legal standing on potential failure to accommodate your disability. Gabriel, I wasn't there. You weren't there. What is the lawsuit about?

54:22Unclear to me. I really hate to cheapen this because she does have a terrible disease and they did fail to accommodate it in that way. But the damages are what I always think about in a lawsuit. And it's kind of like the CEO said something that indicated that maybe it was your fault in her opinion. But that's kind of the worst thing that happened. So it's not like they fired you because you blew it and it was actually somebody else's fault and they failed to accommodate your disability. Or retaliated against her for taking sick leave or something. Are you right to be angry at people in your company?

54:53Yeah, miffed for sure. But lawsuit is like nuclear option. This is more about a failure to do something because they dropped the ball as opposed to something malicious. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. So I'm not saying don't talk to a lawyer or anything like that. But why go there? Are you angry enough to sue? Were you damaged enough to sue? And can you prove that you were damaged enough? That's always the question. So if they said you're not getting the promotion because you blew it. OK, yeah, you should sue them for that. If they fired you because the conference didn't go well. Yeah, you should sue them for that or threaten to anyway and take a settlement.

55:30Steve got a runny nose. Nadine didn't show up because she got strapped and the plan wasn't in place and so you had to pick up extra slack and couldn't and things didn't go well and everybody's moved on from that except for you. Now, I don't know if you should sue anybody for something like that. But again, maybe I'm missing something. So I'll just say document what happened surrounding the event, then decide if you want to try to clean things up at your current company first, establishing better lines of communication, clarifying the delegation of duties, all that before you quit or pursue a case.

56:00And I concur, man. I wouldn't quit to become a full-time independent journalist, certainly not because of this. Now, if you want to strike out on your own for other good reasons, that's a different story. But as you pointed out, there are lots of pressures in your field right now, Gen AI being just one of them. And it sounds to me like you've worked really hard to rise up at this place. You might even be up for another promotion soon. Plus, you have this health stuff to get through. And I imagine having a salaried position with healthcare has got to be kind of a major gift right now. So bottom line, try not to only look at this through the lens of whose fault is it?

56:31Do I sue? Do I leave? And try to take the lens of what did this situation teach me? How can I use that to do even better work and avoid icebergs in the future? Even if you quit, even if you sue, that kind of thinking is still going to do wonders for you. And most importantly, please keep taking care of yourself. You're dealing with some very serious health stuff and your ambition, your passion, your dedication. I love them, but they can't come at the expense of your body and mind. Maybe learning how to put better plans in place for these events, Maybe that'll also make it easier to accept those accommodations because you'll still be knocking it out of the park or taking it into the end zone or whatever metaphor you alpha big dog rock stars like to use over there in corporate land.

57:10Sending you a big hug and wishing you all the best. You know what's way more fun than a severe E. coli infection ravaging your body? Taking advantage of the deals and discounts on the fine products and services that support this show. We'll be right back. I've got homes.com as a sponsor for this episode. Homes.com knows when it comes to home shopping, it's never just about the house or the condo. It's about the homes. And what makes a home is more than just the house or property. It's the location. It's the neighborhood. If you've got kids, it's also schools, nearby parks, transportation options.

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58:13We've done your homework. This episode is also sponsored by AG1. There is no right time to get your health dialed in. I always say the best time is now, and if you're trying to build a habit that actually sticks, AG1 is a really easy way to get your multivitamin, pre - and probiotics, superfoods, and antioxidants in one scoop. Mixed with eight ounces of water and done. You drink it first thing before coffee, before checking your phone, and it becomes this little micro habit that anchors everything else in your day. And the new NextGen formula has even more vitamins and minerals than ever. It is clinically proven to fill common nutrient gaps, which is huge because most people here are walking around with gaps they don't even know they have.

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59:20All of the deals and discounts you hear on the show are searchable and clickable on the website at jordanharbinger.com slash deals. You're also welcome to email us for any codes. We're happy to surface those things for you because it is that important that you support those who support the show. And it's time for the recommendation of the week. I guess I have to do it now, right? I am addicted to lip filler. So I'm a big fan of writing thank you notes by hand. I find that they mean a lot to people, especially when you put some thought into it and they're also just really fun to write. But what takes them to another level is writing them on custom stationery.

59:53So my recommendation of the week is just that, investing in custom stationery with your name on it. Not a novel idea, I know, but for years I put off ordering some because I thought it was just like a huge project and I'd have to go to some stationery store and sit with somebody for 45 minutes and touch 30 different types of cardstock and agonize over the - It's such a nightmare. I'd rather go to Bed Bath & Beyond and many of you know how I feel. Stab your eyes out with an egg beater, exactly. And just agonize over the font and it would be super expensive and blah, blah, blah. But there are a ton of design sites now where you can choose from a template or you create your own.

1:00:28It's just so insanely easy. It's also very reasonably priced and bam, a week later you have 200 customized cards and envelopes ready to go. I went with a very simple design, just like a black box around the border of a thank you card sized stationary pack. That could be anything. Depends how thankful you are. It could be big, it could be small. I got different sizes depending on how much I actually like the person Right. And name at the top, Black Border, they look great. People constantly comment on them. They're like, oh, nice, stationary with your name on it. And also only$75 or maybe$100 or something for the pack.

1:00:59So great investment. I used a website called Zazzle, Zazzle.com, but there are tons of options out there. I don't know why I just started laughing because it's a grown person saying Zazzle.com. I was going to do something, but then I'm like, oh, I'm just interrupting again. But yeah, Zazzle.com. It sounds like a place that sells things that stick onto your vagina. it sounds like a knockoff version of etsy where you bedazzle your your cat sweater which probably they also sell those things too it would be the vulva by the way i know people are like the vagina's inside i know people love pointing that out they love doing that yes also i had to say vulva i don't know why that you know what that's fine it's a body part take it away gabriel you are on one today dude i'm just picturing patrick bateman sliding his business card across the table and be like, feel that's bone from zazzle.com.

1:01:50It sounds pretty good. Also, I always pack a few of these when I'm traveling because you never know when you're going to want to write someone a card, like maybe somebody invites you to a dinner party or something, or you want to write something to the person you're traveling with. That's a nice one, whatever it is. And just having some in your bag inspires you to write something meaningful when you would otherwise let it go because you'd have to run to CVS and buy a card. It's just too much work. So custom stationary, one of those small details that really makes a big impact. Also, in case y 'all don't know, there's a subreddit for the show if you want to help me make fun of Gabriel's stationary habits or you want to share your Zazzle.com templates with each other.

1:02:25If there's an episode you really like, an episode you really didn't like, you want to share additional thoughts, learn more from other people in the show, fam, come join us on the subreddit. I'm still there, even though I got banned from Reddit for calling someone a Muppet. I'm still there lurking. I just can't reply to things, which is fine. I still read everything. And I can tell the team to reply to things if necessary. You can find us on the Jordan Harbinger subreddit. Ironically, sans Jordan Harbinger. All right, what's next? Before we wrap up here, a few weeks back, we took a letter from a software engineer who had been laid off as a federal worker and was struggling to land a new job.

1:02:56She said she had applied to 600 positions and only gotten a handful of interviews. That was not the only thing or even the main thing she was writing in about, but it was one of the big challenges that she was dealing with. And one of our listeners had a very passionate take about this detail in her letter, so we wanted to share it with you. So he writes, Firing up those fingers. I am so overhearing people, especially software engineers like me, whining about how they couldn't find a job after 600 applications. It's a disservice to these people to accept the assertion at face value. Mashing the LinkedIn quick apply button 600 times and adding those companies to a list is the only realistic way I can imagine reaching such big numbers.

1:03:38When talking to people about finding a software job, I always advise that a LinkedIn quick apply or anything analogous to it counts as negative 0.25x of a job application. Okay, that is such a software engineer way to say that. For the morale cost of yeeting your hopes into a void, you're better off doing nothing. When I hear 600 applications sent, I interpret it as negative 150 applications sent the right way. You got to dig yourself out of a spiritual hole just to be at zero if you catch someone's attention. Okay, so pause. This is a hot take, but a very powerful one. What he's saying is those kinds of low friction job applications where you essentially just hit apply now and you don't have to do anything else.

1:04:24In addition to having a very low success rate, it actually puts you in the emotional red because it demoralizes you and it subtracts from your self-esteem and your will to keep on going. I actually understand what this guy is saying, even though it's funny the way he explains it, because I'm like, God, engineer brains are totally different. Right. Because you think I've applied to hundreds of places and nobody wants me. But what he's saying is you did that to yourself. Meanwhile, those jobs, they're not even reading your application, I'm sure. That's right. So I think he's 100 percent right about this.

1:04:52I'm sure some people get interviews this way. Of course, it's possible the button wouldn't exist otherwise. So maybe there's some outside chance it could work in your favor. Yeah, better than nothing. but if you're going to use that number to feed a narrative that you're undesirable as a candidate or the market just sucks, then he has a point. It could actually hurt more than help. The strategy for getting a high-paying job is nothing new. Find a contact who knows you by name, build a reputation over time where they will vouch for you, confirm there is an actual opening aligned with what you bring to the table, and let the inside contact tell you how to proceed.

1:05:27As someone who now hires software engineers myself, I'm not impressed with the brute force approaches or a lot of toil on the part of a job candidate. If those were ever virtues to begin with, now they're the virtues of AI. It was only ever an aberration slash frothy job market that turned software into something you could game algorithmically by taking an insanely large number of shots at it. Now it's back to the traditional questions of can I trust this person and can this person do the job we need them to do. Signed, feeling compelled to butt in on the topic of people who smash that button.

1:06:04So I'm going to count this as my six minute networking plug for the week. I won't mention it again. Yeah, I'm sure everyone's told to hear that. But honestly, I can't think of a better argument for relationship building than this. It was beautifully put. A little harsh. I like it. That's my style. But I think the harshness comes from a place of genuine passion for helping good people find the right jobs. I agree. I think the AI point is absolutely spot on, too. Ironically, the more that tech evolves, the more it seems that these more primitive systems, trust, credibility, connection, empathy, like identifying with a candidate, wanting them to succeed, the more those things matter.

1:06:36Such a great point. I think that's true across the board, actually, not just in job hunting. I think the digital world has become so synthetic and self-interested and soulless that when people encounter a real human being, it means more than it did even a few years ago. So hopefully this helps some folks avoid a lot of wasted effort. I think sometimes people just, they think building relationships to get somewhere, it's inefficient, it's too much work, but it's actually the opposite. I think you'll get much further having, I don't know, eight or 10 solid relationships than you would sending 1 ,200 applications to people who have no idea who you are.

1:07:11Could it work? Sure. Are you mostly banking on luck? Definitely. And are most of these applications going to fail? Also, yes. So it's, which one's really more inefficient? It's interesting because we hear from so many people who talk about applying for literally hundreds of jobs. And I always wonder, like, how are you doing that? Are you really firing off 450 cover letters uniquely tailored to each position? Because that is hundreds of hours on chat GPT, even if you're using AI to help you. Or are you just smashing the apply button somewhere? And also, is the market really that bad? Or are you sending your resume off into the ether because you just are not investing in your relationships?

1:07:48So I don't have a ton more to add here. I don't want to shame people, by the way, who can't find a job. That's not my intention here. We just wanted to feature this letter in case it helps anybody who is looking for a job right now or who might be looking in the future. And I love when other people make this point for me so I don't have to insist on relationship stuff all the time. And I can go, see, a person who's hiring people agrees with me. So if you don't believe me, believe him and believe her that this is important stuff. Okay, so thank you for sharing this, my friend, and good on you for valuing your relationships as much as you expect everyone else to value their relationships.

1:08:19I'm sure that makes you a great boss as well as a smart hiring manager. Go back and check out the episode with Dr. Rhonda Patrick if you haven't done so yet. Show notes and transcripts on the website, advertisers, deals, discount codes, ways to support the show, all at jordanharbinger.com slash deals. I'm at jordanharbinger on Twitter and Instagram. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn. Gabe's over on Instagram at Gabriel Mizrahi. This show is created in association with Podcast One. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Robert Fogarty, Ian Baird, Tata Sidlowskis, and of course, Gabriel Mizrahi.

1:08:49Our advice and opinions are our own. And yeah, I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. So consult a professional before implementing anything you hear on the show. Ditto Joanna Tate. Remember, we rise by lifting others. Share the show with those you love. If you found the episode useful, please share it with somebody else who could use the advice we gave here today. In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn. And we'll see you next time. What if we're not just close to building matrix-level simulations? We may already be inside one. You're about to hear a preview of our episode with Rizwan Virk on clues we're living in a rendered world.

1:09:22The simulation hypothesis is basically the idea that what we think of as the physical world, you know, like this table, this chair, that all the physical reality is actually part of a virtual world. The simulation hypothesis, the subtitle is, an MIT computer scientist shows why AI, quantum physics, and Eastern mystics agree we're in a video game. There have been a number of physicists who are looking at the world as information now. So there's a whole branch of physics called digital physics. And instead of looking at things like conservation of energy and conservation of momentum, you're looking at conservation of information.

1:09:54Does information get created or get destroyed? And some have even said that the world itself is basically a quantum computer, if you think about it. And so that would be whatever computational substrate is being used around the simulation would have to be a lot more advanced than what we think of as computers today. I use the metaphor of video games, that the world is a type of massively multiplayer online video game because that's sort of my background was in building video games in Silicon Valley. Now, there's a lot of different flavors of simulation theory when you kind of delve deep into it.

1:10:25And probably the most popular expression of that in the media has been the film The Matrix. Because, you know, Neo thought he was in a real physical world, but it turns out he was actually in a virtual world. But now AI is moving so fast that I think we'll get to that point much more quickly, and certainly within the next 50 years, 100 years at the max. For the full conversation that will make you question every assumption you've ever held, check out episode 1239 of The Jordan Harbinger Show with Rizwan Virk.