844: Dropping the Bomb: His Sister's His Mom | Feedback Friday

22:37You might need some time to go inward, to appreciate what you've been through, to wander into the wilderness, so to speak, and work through some of the feelings and experiences that go back a very long time. Things that you might have even been avoiding or didn't even know were there while you were on your old path. My feeling is that that's the most important work you could be doing right now. Your career is obviously it's important too, and I totally appreciate the urgency you feel. I'm not saying you can't do both. If you can, by all means, don't hold yourself back from good opportunities. You can recover and search for jobs.

23:10And obviously you might need to get a job in the meantime that isn't the perfect fit just to take care of yourself, which is totally fair. But I really do believe that your big career question will be informed by your inner life, your mental health. It can be so hard to get excited about work when you're struggling. I know that feeling firsthand, man. You're just, everything's going right, but something's not, so you just can't stop thinking about it. You need to get in touch with what matters to you, what lights you up. You need to find out which environments and fields support you the way that you want.

23:41So I'd work on those primarily and trust that these other big questions, they'll fall into place. Could not agree more, Jordan. And on a practical level, it can be pretty tough to reach out to new people and shine in job interviews. If somewhere in the back of your mind, you're going, I don't know. I don't know if I feel quite right. I don't know if I'm ready for this. I'm still feeling kind of hopeless. and I'm anxious or I'm afraid, whatever it is. That's all stuff you want to work through in therapy. And I'm not saying you need to take, you know, six years to do that until you can find your path.

24:12It could be six months or nine months. It might be three months. There's no one timeline. But I think Jordan's right. Be a little patient with yourself here. Two months ago, two months ago, you tried to end your life. That is a very heavy thing. The thoughts and the experiences that led you to that point, I'm sure they're very complex. and I have no doubt that they're shaping your experience of the world. So you got some healing to do. It takes time, but that deserves your attention right now. In fact, the urgency that you feel to figure out your path right away, I don't know, it's interesting.

24:45I wonder if that might itself be a way of coping with the situation you find yourself in. Interesting. You mean like she might be trying to fast forward here a little bit? I wonder. I think so, maybe. I love her commitment. I love her productivity. It's beautiful. Let's just appreciate to go from a suicide attempt to hustling for a job because you need to take care of yourself really speaks to some of her amazing qualities. But yes, that might also be a way to skip over this very important stage in her recovery where a lot of her job right now is to bear some difficult feelings, including this anxiety about all of the uncertainty and maybe a little bit of shame about stepping off of a well-defined path and moving back in with dad and having to go, okay, wow.

25:29like my job right now is just to take care of myself get better make sure I'm okay and admit that I need support while I do that I could see how that would be very difficult to bear and I totally understand the impulse to just you know can we get this thing moving again can I get onto a path so I don't have to be in this stage and I don't have to feel like this person let's get this over with but at this moment so soon after the suicide attempt I think she could only benefit by slowing down a little bit and going deeper into her treatment yeah I think that's well said that's so fascinating and at first I was like damn this woman is resilient she doesn't waste any time and that's definitely true she is right but sometimes moving quickly and being so strong sometimes those are precisely the qualities that make it harder to get better and I know that sounds like a weird paradox but look you wake up in a year two years ten years you got a great job your career is rocking and your life looks pretty solid but you have all these other well same problems you had before except they're worse because you didn't really deal with them so I hope that gives you a new lens here.

26:29I'm really happy you're alive. I mean that sincerely, of course. The fact that you're engaging with therapy, with life, with your career, that you're writing into us for advice, that's an excellent sign. And you're just doing so much right. So just give yourself permission to really go all the way. Trust that the best way of taking care of your career long term is taking care of yourself right now. And we're sending you a big hug. We're wishing you all the best. Look, you got this. You're already doing so great. You'll be fine. Keep it up. You can reach us Friday at jordanharbinger.com. Keep your emails concise.

26:59Use descriptive subject lines. If you're wrestling with something, life, love, work, what to do if your girlfriend's stepdad stole her nudes. And no, that's not the premise of some cringy erotica Gabe pulled off of Reddit. It's an actual question we took last week. Whatever's got you staying up at night lately, hit us up Friday at jordanharbinger.com. We're here to help and we keep every email anonymous. Okay, next up. Dear Jordan and Gabe, I'm in my early 40s and my fiancé is in her late 30s. She's a very intelligent and thoughtful woman who has overcome a lot of adversity to accomplish a lot in her life.

27:34She has two professional degrees and is now working on her first love, which is writing a book. Last year, she went back to school on the West Coast while I stayed on the East Coast. During that period, we struggled and ended up breaking up for nine or ten months. She dropped out of school and traveled for a while. We kept in touch while she was away, which helped rebuild our bond, which led to us getting back together and getting engaged. When she got back home, she was texting on her phone more than usual, always shielding her screen, which she never did before going away. I noticed a man's name, let's call him Frank, but didn't say anything.

28:11A week later, while my fiancé was in the shower, her phone was face up and ringing. It was Frank. I asked her who he was. She flipped out on me, telling me that I'm acting weird because it's a guy. She said she met Frank while she was on the West Coast, that he had a girlfriend and kids, that I need to chill out, and that he was going to help her with her book sales. Two weeks later, she was crying, saying that she thinks Frank is a con and that she's worried he's going to try and sue her to take her book sales. I was supportive and walked her through why that wouldn't happen. Three weeks after that, she told me that she might have overreacted and that they were going to work together after all.

28:47I didn't think it was a good idea, but I said I would support her decision if she felt that he could really help. The next month and a half, they were on the phone all the time, at all hours. I would catch bits of their conversations, and it sounded less like business and more like bonding, like therapy sessions for him, or like fights between siblings or chaotic couples. This triggered a lot in me. In college, I had a girlfriend who had a new friend arrive out of the blue, and she eventually cheated on me with him. I worked through these feelings by listening to talks and seeking out advice from two close friends, but it's still hard for me to silence that voice in my head.

29:28Eventually, my fiancé and Frank ended up having a huge falling out, which led to them not working together. Three weeks later, my fiancé was chatting on the phone. I asked her who she was chatting with. She didn't answer. The feeling in my stomach told me it was Frank But I didn't want to jump to conclusions I figured she didn't hear me So I left it alone Two days after that She was on the phone again And this time I made sure she heard me When I asked who it was She casually replied that it was Frank And asked if that was a problem My reply was Yes it is This is a person who has been shitty to you Unreliable And when I first asked you about him You gaslit me I don't understand why you're insisting on working with somebody who you told me has a boatload of negative traits.

30:13Now you're being cagey. Last time you told me you guys were working together, this time it feels sneaky. Her reply was that he has bigger networks that can be tapped into, but she didn't reply to the other things I said. That was the last time we talked about it. It's been a week. Now I feel like my trust in my fiancé is eroding. She's smart, and she knows how to pull levers. She once said that an ex called her manipulative, which I can see. She thinks in chess, whereas most people think in checkers. How do I address this feeling? How do I deal with what seems like an emotional affair? Do I need to go to therapy?

30:49Signed, a little shook about the possible crook keeping my girl on the hook for this ill-fated book. Okay. Well, this is a problem. It certainly does sound like there's some Frankie Panky going on over there. I've been holding on to that for at least five minutes. Actually angry at myself for not thinking of that for the sign-off. I'm surprised that I'm the one that came up with that instead of you. Very nice. So this is actually a few problems. And the one that you're worried about most, the nature of your fiancé's relationship with Frank, it's almost like the least of the crap that's going on here.

31:20Agreed. I can understand why this is so hurtful and confusing for you. Your fiancé's putting you in a very difficult spot, and there's a lot going on here. So let's dig in. First of all, no, I don't think you're crazy. I think you're absolutely right to listen to your gut here. There's nothing wrong with your fiance having a relationship with another guy. Fine. There's nothing inherently wrong with her getting close to somebody she's working on a book with. These projects, they have a way of bringing people very close together. There's a certain intimacy that develops between collaborators, and that can lead to some occasional conflict and confusion.

31:51Emotions can run high. Although, I will say that Frank is not her writing partner or her editor, as far as I understand. It sounds like he's more on the marketing business side. She's trying to help her sell the book, pump up sales. So I'm just, I'm a little confused about why their conversations are so intense and all consuming. You know, if Gabriel and I got into it, which we actually don't usually do, if we got into it because we were thinking about a feedback Friday answer or question, that's one thing. But when it's like, your job is to sell this and my job is to write it, it's like, where's the beef?

32:21What are we arguing about? Yeah, where's the friction here? Something's not adding up. Exactly, something is not adding up. I got email marketers, we don't spend hours on the phone. They don't even like me. And I don't know, Gabe. I just get the sense, not really kidding about that. I'm pretty sure they don't like me. But I just get the sense that Frank is taking her for a ride or just totally mismanaging this relationship in some way. But hey, who knows? Maybe they're really engaging with the process together. Let's put that aside for now. What is definitely a problem, in my view, is your fiance's secrecy around Frank.

32:56She feels he's this crappy, unreliable person, but she keeps working with him because he's making our promises. Like I've got networks you can tap into, which by the way, like who hasn't heard that a million times at this point, they fight consistently like siblings or a couple. She's tolerating this chaotic up and down thing. She's not being very respectful to you in all of this, not being very thoughtful about what her relationship with Frank brings up for you. That's a problem. And that said, I don't know if your fiance would cheat on you with Frank or if she has already, although there certainly do seem to be some blurred lines in their relationship.

33:29And like you said, this might be an emotional affair of sorts. That's already dicey. But where this gets more complicated is that there are two of you in this relationship. And as with any dynamic, your stuff is interacting with her stuff. So this thing that you shared about having a girlfriend in college who cheated on you, that's very interesting here. And I can hear that there's a wound there that's getting reactivated, that scab scar, whatever's getting picked on, and that makes sense. And I'm sure your fiance is picking up on that anxiety and that fear, even if she's frankly not being very, pardon the pun, being very kind about it at all.

34:05Interesting. So I think what you're getting at is that there's maybe a world where she's being cagey about Frank, not because there's actually something going on, but because she's trying to spare him. Yeah, because it feels easier to her. Maybe even a weird way it's fairer to her to sort of shield you from the frank of it all because she can see how much it distresses you and because she might be too ill-equipped or afraid of working through that openly with you, which is weird for somebody who supposedly thinks in chess, but that doesn't mean she's good at facing her actual feelings and other people's feelings.

34:35Now, let me be clear. I'm not saying that what she's doing is the right thing to do. It's not. I'm not blaming you for this either. But what I'm saying is it does take two to tango and I get the sense that there's a lot of unspoken stuff that passes between you guys. Like that day you asked her who she was talking to and she just pretended not to hear you. And then you sort of agreed to let it go until your anger built up even more and you couldn't ignore it and you press the issue and then she exploded, which by the way, good on you for doing that because you asserted yourself appropriately. And that's important.

35:05But this does make me wonder about this pattern, this pattern of dating women who cheat on you or keep you at arm's length or don't openly communicate with you, at least not always. And I don't want to speculate here, but there's obviously a parallel here. You're going to have to figure out what the deal is there. And yeah, absolutely. I think that would be a wonderful thing to explore in therapy. Maybe you struggle to confront your partners about their real feelings when things get difficult. Maybe you stick around in relationships that aren't entirely fair or healthy longer than you should. Oh, yeah.

35:40It's also possible that he might choose partners who don't communicate well or who have messy relationships with other people or maybe you have a tendency to, yeah, to manipulate him a little bit. Totally. All possibilities. These templates are very strong. Or look, maybe this is all a coincidence and you just happened to date two people who got involved with other guys and you didn't necessarily create that situation or have a hand in it, but how you're responding to these situations, the wound that's been activated by both of them, that's your piece of this. And again, I'm not saying that's what's definitely happening.

36:12I'm not trying to diagnose you. I'm just fascinated by these patterns and I want to give you a few things to consider. So back to Frank and your fiance. Something's obviously not working. You guys need to talk. And what you need to talk about, in my view, is what her relationship with Frank is really about. What are they doing? What is their goal together? Whether is Frank is even the right person to be helping her? Why does her opinion of him keep changing like the wind? What's all this conflict about? That whole thing is odd to me. Yeah, that's odd to me too. And I think really what they need to talk about is why is she hiding?

36:47Why is she hiding so much of this relationship? Why is she kind of avoiding these conversations? Is it really to protect you or is it because there actually is something going on? Yes. And you guys need to talk about how you guys communicate, which to me is really the crux of this whole problem, because if everything was on the table, we wouldn't be here right now. And you know, when he has this conversation with her, I think he needs to make it safe for her to be honest with him, you know, which means being willing to hear some potentially difficult stuff. If she does have feelings for Frank, it would be really good for you to know that now, as painful as that would be.

37:19Or if she struggles with your response to certain things, that would be really good feedback for you. But you got to invite her to be candid, and you have to be willing to bear that stuff. My strong feeling, just to be very blunt, is that you guys really need to hash this out before you get married. Oh my gosh, definitely, definitely before you get married, please. I mean, this isn't going to get better, right? This is going to get worse if you guys don't work through it. Also, this is your second go around as a couple. You broke up once before, you got back together. Now things are rocky again.

37:51I don't know. There's a history here of struggling to stay connected. And I don't just mean by geography, like by distance. I mean emotionally when things get a little hard. and I just would not get married until you guys really understand why that's happening. Absolutely, and if you need help doing that, I would definitely recommend couples therapy. I think it's really important. So this is our take. I don't know if this is the end of the road, but for me, it would be enough to hit pause, certainly on the wedding plans. I don't mean to alarm you. I just want you to be clear-eyed about this and set yourself up for the best possible marriage.

38:25There are so many moving pieces here. There's you, there's her, there's Frank, there's a book, if it exists, there's this engagement, there's your histories, it's a lot. But from where I'm sitting, the solution to all of this boils down to being honest, being fair, being clear with yourselves and with each other. So lean into this, start talking, get on the same page, and we're wishing you all the best. You know, it's a great use of those imaginary book royalties, Gabriel. The awesome products and services that support this show. We'll be right back. If you liked this episode of Feedback Friday and found our advice valuable, I invite you to do what other smart and considerate listeners do, which is take a moment and support our amazing sponsors.

39:04All of the links, deals, and discount codes, ways to support the show are at jordanharbinger.com slash deals. You can also search for any sponsor on any episode of the show using the AI chatbot on the website as well. Thank you so much for supporting those who support the show. Now, back to Feedback Friday. This next segment is sponsored by BetterHelp. Big thanks to Hesu Jo, head of clinical operations at BetterHelp. All right, Gabe, take it away. Hey, Jordan and Gabe. A year and a half ago, my dad passed away from cancer. We found out he had it. A week later, he was in hospice. And a week after that, he was dead.

39:38His death obviously had us all really hard, as he was the leader of our family. I know it's been especially hard on my mom, but she's not the type to show or talk about it. That's not really how our family rolls. Since then, my siblings and I try to get together more often and do more family things with her. My mom enjoys spending time with my brother and sister's kids, and my aunts have also been spending more time with her. We all genuinely have fun together, even my mom, I think. Although, we all miss my dad very much. Over the holidays a few months ago, we got together for our traditional family Christmas candy-making day, which is a fun ritual where we have a drink and laugh and have a good time.

40:16During the party, my mom asked me to go get something from her room. I walked in, and it looked exactly as it did when my dad was alive. Everything is in the exact same place, as if he were still living there. I really want my mom to move on with her life, and I know my dad would too. She's very stubborn, and she absolutely will not see a therapist. If someone suggests it, she'll resist it. I saw a therapist for a few months after all of this happened. I actually used BetterHelp with your code, but I haven't found a good opportunity to bring that up as a way of getting my mom to try it. What can I do to help my mom process my dad's death and move forward with her life?

40:58Signed, Helping a Bereaved Mom Grieve at 2x the speed. Oh man, I am so sorry to hear about your dad. This must have been a huge loss for you all, and super intense. It happened so quickly. This is a major life transition to go through. And I'm sure it's been uniquely difficult for your mom, especially since she's not the let me open up and unburden myself type from the sound of it. I gotta say though, it's really touching how much you care about her. She's lucky to have you looking out for her. Y 'all seem like a close-knit family, a loving family, which is awesome. We wanted to consult with an expert on your question.

41:33So we spoke with Hesu Jo, licensed marriage and family therapist and head of clinical operations at BetterHelp, the world's largest online therapy service. You've heard of them, they sponsor the show. and the first thing Hesu said was, it's hard for us to know exactly how your mom is feeling these days, what she's really going through because grief, it's such a personal process, right? It's unique, it's mysterious, it's cyclical. As Hesu put it to us, there's no one timeline that says you must move through this milestone of grief by this time. Everyone processes loss differently. So while I love that you wanna help your mom move forward with her life, you might have to slow down here a little bit and remember that your grief might look very different from your mom's grief.

42:17Your timeline might be very different from her timeline. Hesu pointed out that your grief as a daughter, that might be different from your mom's grief as a decades-long spouse. Both are very intense, very meaningful, but they are different. So you're not wrong for wanting her to move forward, but the fact is she just might not be ready to do that, or she might not need to do that, or she is doing that in her own way internally and you just don't know. The bedroom might only be telling you part of the story. Right, I think that's a really good point. Now, I imagine that that's a little hard to make peace with because you don't have a good grasp of what your mom wants or needs.

42:55If she could talk more, you would have a better sense of where she is in the grief process and you might take some comfort in knowing that even if she's not moving on, she's at least working through it in some way and you would be able to go, oh, okay, mom's keeping the bedroom exactly as it was because, you know, she doesn't want to lose her connection to dad or whatever her reasoning might be. And you could just let her do her thing. But Hesu highlighted something important here too, which is if your mom doesn't want to talk openly, if she doesn't want to go to therapy, then you can't force her to.

43:25And maybe that's the deeper theme of your letter, just accepting your mom for the very guarded, very internal sort of mysterious person she is in many ways, which let's just acknowledge that can be super frustrating. And I'm sure it makes you feel like you're on the outside of your mom's experience, which when you care about somebody as much as you care about her, that's a really tough place to be. But it might just be where you are, at least for now, while your mom moves through this chapter the only way she knows how. Really fair point. But all that said, Hesu wondered whether your mom really isn't moving forward with her life in her own way, because sure, she might have been keeping the bedroom exactly how it was because she's stuck in her grief and clinging to the past, but she might also have kept it that way because cleaning it out, it's a really big project, it's daunting, or because she just likes the room the way it is, or because she's been channeling her energy into other things like spending time with you all.

44:21So Hesu's question was, aside from the bedroom, what else are you observing in your mom's behavior or her mood or general outlook that makes you think she's unable to move on? Are there other signs that she's stuck in her life? For example, if she works, how is she doing in her job? If she doesn't work, how does she spend her time? Is she able to participate in life? Is she taking care of herself? Is she eating okay? Is she sleeping decently? Is she getting outside? Is she moving around? If she isn't, then you might be right that she's a little stuck. But if she is, then your mom might be doing okay, all things considered.

44:55She's able to spend time with her family. She's participating in these fun rituals. It's not like she's locking herself in the bedroom and curling up with your dad's favorite sweater refusing to come out. That would paint a very different picture. And hey, maybe it's a mixed bag. Maybe she participates really well and is open to changing her life in some areas. And in other ways, she withdraws and wants to keep things the same. I think that's probably normal for a person who lost their spouse fairly recently. But wherever your mom is in the process, I 100 % agree with you that she'd benefit from opening up to somebody.

45:28Yeah, so do I. So Hesu had some great ideas about how to approach her and maybe get around the resistance a little bit. The one big opening Hesu sees here is that your mom really enjoys spending time with her family. There's probably a lot of safety with you all, a lot of trust. So maybe she can learn to open up in that setting. So Hesu brought up the idea of sharing stories about your dad when you all get together. Maybe you talk about what it's been like since he passed. Maybe you go first and then your siblings and then maybe you invite your mom to share something. You know, show her that it's cathartic to open up about dad, that it's safe to share your feelings and then invite her to do the same.

46:06She might not agree to get on the couch, but she might do some version of that, you know, on her own couch. Another idea Hazu shared, when you and your mom are hanging out alone, you could open up about the last year and a half. maybe when you're doing the dishes or you're running errands or whatever, you tell her, you know, mom, this is how I've been feeling about dad since he died. These are the things that have been really difficult for me. This is how I've been working through it. And I wouldn't put her on the spot too much. You know, I wouldn't say, okay, I told you how I'm feeling. Now it's your turn, mom, you know, go.

46:36But just by opening up, you might give her permission to dip her toe in the water. Show her that nothing bad is going to happen if she's a little more vulnerable. Hesu said your best bet might be to model for her what it looks like to open up and just make some space for her to talk if that's what she wants to do. Another idea Hesu had, you could suggest sprucing up your mom's bedroom together. You know, like, hey mom, I know you haven't changed your room since dad passed away. I'm sure it's a big thing to think about. Would you like some help? Maybe we can go through his things, decide what you want to keep, maybe start to make it feel more like your room.

47:10If she's like, absolutely not. I'm not ready for that. I like my room the way it is, then you know she's not ready and you should probably back off. But if she's like, well, maybe I guess I should go through the room. I've just been putting it off. That might actually be a great opportunity for you to help her. And maybe going through the room together would be a special experience for both of you. And the great thing is it won't require a ton of talking. You'd be speaking your mom's language a little more, which is doing. And maybe that would be the most helpful thing for your mom. As for the therapy piece, I do like your approach, telling her how therapy has been so helpful, subtly communicating to her that it's worthwhile.

47:49That is smart. But ultimately, this is up to her. There's a world where she never sees someone and her process never looks the way that you want it to. And you'll just have to make peace with that. But that's why it's even more important that you continue to surround her with a ton of love, engage her, make some room for her to open up in whatever way she can. And while you take care of your mom, Hesu also encourages you to keep taking care of yourself. Because as she pointed out, while your concern for your mom is really touching, you are grieving too. And maybe some of your grief gets conflated with her grief, and it can be just hard to know whose grief you're actually processing.

48:25Just something to keep an eye on. Again, I am so sorry you had to say goodbye to your dad, but it does sound like you're doing really well. I'm really proud of you for seeking out support, and I love that you're there for your mom. So we're sending you all a big hug and wishing you and your mom all the best. This segment was sponsored by BetterHelp. Big thanks again to Hesu Jo, head of clinical operations at BetterHelp. Go to betterhelp.com slash Jordan to help support the show and get started. Hesu Jo's input is general psychological information based on research and clinical experience. It's intended to be general and informational in nature.

48:56It does not represent or indicate an established clinical or professional relationship with those inquiring for guidance. Hesu's feedback is in response to a written question and therefore there are likely other unknown considerations given the limited context, any personal opinions about a writer's life choices, as well as any action-oriented advice come solely from the show. Also, just because you might hear something on the show that sounds similar to what you're experiencing, beware of self-diagnosis. Diagnosis is not required to find relief, and you'll want to find a qualified professional to assess and explore diagnoses if that's important to you.

49:24See guys, Feedback Friday is so fun, even BetterHelp's lawyers had fun with it. All right, onward. Next up. Hey guys, I was flying home from Phoenix back to North Carolina recently, and the guy next to me on the plane was truly disgusting. He had an oversized shirt in his lap and he kept lifting it, blowing his nose in it and returning it to his lap. Oh my God, that is so disgusting. Come on, man. That is so gross, man. Wait, so hold on. Is he wearing the shirt or is this another shirt that he's carrying around? I actually had that same question. Like, is it the shirt that he's wearing that goes down so far that it clumps up in his lap and he can use it as a Kleenex or does he just have another shirt that he got for free and it doesn't fit?

50:08So he's like, let me use this as a Kleenex on the airplane in public. And I think that's what it is. She said he had an oversized shirt in his lap. So I think it's like another, okay. Well, so basically he's walking around with a giant handkerchief. It's so disgusting. Yeah, so he just has a triple X champions t-shirt with a bunch of snot slowly drying on it. Okay, I guess that's better than doing it into the shirt he's wearing, but you're still just a vector for all kinds of disgusting stuff. So gross. Yeah, you can't stuff that thing in a Dixie cup until the flight attendant comes by, can you?

50:38No, I just, I have such a clear visual of this from our friend here's perspective. Just trying to catch up on season two of Single Drunk Female and just clocking this crusty t-shirt from the corner of your eye, making damn sure it doesn't touch the armrest or any part of her for the duration of the entire flight. So like 80 % of your focus is just making sure you don't get booger elbow. So gross. So disgusting. Okay, so she goes on, I'm unsure if he was sick or had allergies, but I'm confused how people can be so gross post-pandemic. Seriously? Seriously. Yeah, I love how people have just reverted back to their old ways now.

51:14Even worse somehow, maybe I'm a germaphobe, but have we learned nothing from the last three years? Just basic hygiene, please. That's it. My usual method of muttering under my breath, things like you're grody or sanitation, man. Don't do anything to help the situation. what is the most tactful way to tell someone that they are disgusting that's such a good question what is the most tactful way to tell somebody that they're disgusting signed a seatmate with her mouth agape at these straight-up primates first of all close your mouth on the plane if you guys you never know what's going to fly in there from that oversized metallica t-shirt you can't afford to be shocked really on an airplane no it really grinds my gears though we can file this letter under the humanity is doomed category.

52:00I was frigging primates is right. Although using that term for this guy is almost an insult to apes who only throw their own feces under certain conditions. Gabe, I feel like all airlines should have a, did you pack your own bags? And are you carrying a massive mucus canvas with you? Question. It's a fair question. If you are, you got to get on a special flight. Just group all these gross neck beardy people together, like a red eye, but just for super gross people that have no hygiene. Like a, what would you call a green nose? Yeah, green nose. Exactly. Get them on the green nose. All the damn barbarians on one plane.

52:35New rule. It's not like there aren't napkins on planes. Just bring a napkin. Or, you know, if you're sick or you have allergies, bring some fricking Kleenex. You're an adult. There's a box in every airplane bathroom since 1978 or something. This is not rocket science. So look, here's how I deal with people like this. There is the passive aggressive approach, which isn't always ideal, but it can work sometimes, you know, you just be like, gross, under your breath, hope they pick up the cue like, oh, yeah, I'm in public. But the kinder way to go, which I usually do, is do you need a tissue so you don't have to use that shirt and almost make a little joke out of it?

53:09You know, you're kind of offering something, but really, it's a call out. Oh, that's classy. I like that approach. Thank you. You're calling out the problem, but you're burying it in the solution. And you just, you know, hopefully they take the hint. Yeah. Be hilarious, though, if you said that and the guy was like, no, I'm good. I got this T-shirt. Yeah, I got this XXXL Bieber shirt. Yeah, you know you're really dealing with a real psychopath at that point and you just got to escalate a little. Maybe you go, look, I'm worried that's just going to spread germs everywhere. Let me grab you a tissue.

53:39And I've actually said stuff like that before. Just force the issue. And you say it a little loudly. Maybe you make eye contact with the flight attendant. People in the area know something's up. Oh, so you can low-key shame them a little bit? Low-key shame them, but also, again, that way a flight attendant or a waiter or the old lady behind you or whoever it is might also pick up on this and get a dang tissue and then problem may be solved. Nice. Okay. I got to be honest. I'm still too afraid to call people out like that, but I clearly need to work on this because it's happening in my own life way too often and I'm sick of it.

54:11It does take practice. This doesn't help if the person's really a pig and just gives zero shits about other people though, then you kind of just have to deal with it or you can report it to somebody, but then what, you know, what's a flight attendant going to do? Like, sir, please use a Kleenex. It's just so awkward. I hate that the normal people in these situations have to feel so uncomfortable and the primate doesn't think about it at all. I'm still working up to telling somebody that they need to put in earbuds if they're going to watch videos in public, which by the way, happened to me again this week at the cafe and it drove me crazy.

54:38I think that one might even be harder because that's like your personal preference as opposed to being just plainly disgusting, according to everybody who has three brain cells or more. But to be fair, not my personal preference. I think that's everybody's personal preference. What, you're not interested in a 17-minute full-volume video of that person's grandkids screaming at a barbecue? I mean, I guess I understand. Not my favorite soundtrack, no. It was the same guy I told you about last time. It's like he's a repeat offender, and he always chooses the table right next to me at this cafe, which is maddening.

55:10I almost had an aneurysm, but maybe I need to take your approach and just be like, hey, bud, do you need some AirPods so you don't ruin my day? Right. Maybe bury it in the solution. What you could do is get an old earwax crusted pair of wired headphones and just give it to him. And he may use those because he doesn't care about anything. Probably also just give them away. Here you go. Here you go. Yeah. You know, and if he doesn't want to use them, you can be like, you could always turn the volume down. I don't know. That's true. Look, I get why that makes you feel like a dick. Whereas telling someone on an airplane that they should blow their nose with an actual Kleenex instead of a cable knit sweater.

55:46It's a lot easier. It's a lot easier. It's a public health thing, man. Basic decency. The world we live in, I just, I can't with these people. This is our country now. We can't even figure out Kleenex. And these people are supposed to pick the president. Don't even get me started. Weird way to end Feedback Friday. Sorry about that. But look, if you ever find yourself on a flight like this again, maybe bring a few of our sponsors' products with you. Honestly, you could, remember Taser? Shameless, shameless capitalist. I'm thinking more like Taser, not like a Kleenex brand. And honestly, you could get most of them to deal with a dude like this.

56:20We got sheets. We got underwear. We got personal grooming packages. Many things you could blow your nose in and or just get tased and go to sleep. Look, we have financial products. Those could come in handy somehow. That's right. I don't know how. Clean up your seatmate's face with a Charles Schwab bank account. 4.5 % interest in your first 10 booger deposits. You know what will stop you from stabbing your seatmate with a disposable straw, Gabriel? Maximizing your returns with TurboTax. We'll be right back. Get that refund and spend it on a jet charter. Hope y 'all enjoyed that. I want to thank everyone who wrote in this week and everyone who listened.

56:57Thank you so much. Go back and check out the episode we did this week with Ellie Honig if you haven't done so yet. If you want to know how I managed to book all these amazing folks for the show, it's about systems, software, tiny habits. I use them every single day. Our six-minute networking course is something I'm sharing with you for free. I don't need your credit card. It's not one of those tricky things. It's over there on the Thinkific platform at jordanharbinger.com slash course. Teaching you how to dig the well before you get thirsty, build relationships before you need them, maintain them in a real sort of low-key, non-schmoozy, non-gross way.

57:27Again, free jordanharbinger.com slash course. Show notes for the episode at jordanharbinger.com. Transcripts are in the show notes. Advertisers, deals, discounts, and ways to support the show are all at jordanharbinger.com slash deals. You can also ask our AI chatbot about anything, any question, any answer from Feedback Friday, any interview, any promo code, jordanharbinger.com slash AI. I'm at Jordan Harbinger on Twitter and Instagram. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn and you can find Gabe on Instagram at Gabriel Mizrahi or on Twitter at Gabe Mizrahi. This show is created in association with Podcast One.

58:02My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Robert Fogarty, Ian Baird, Emilio Campo, and of course, Gabriel Mizrahi. Our advice and opinions are our own and I'm a lawyer, but not your lawyer. do your own research before implementing anything you hear on the show. And remember, we rise by lifting others. Share the show with those you love. If you found the episode useful, please share it with somebody else who can use the advice we gave here today. In the meantime, do your best to apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you listen. And we'll see you next time. You're about to hear a preview of The Jordan Harbinger Show with an undercover FBI agent posing as an Islamic terrorist.

58:37I live with and grew up with the religion of Islam. After 9-11, and knowing full well that this was not the religion that was being portrayed, it kind of broke me a little bit inside. I was in law enforcement. I spoke Arabic. I'm a Muslim. And my knee-jerk reaction was to simply help. Working undercover, it definitely is an adrenaline rush, unlike anything I could describe. Putting your arm around someone, telling them that you're their best friend, getting them to believe you. But what attracted me a great deal to this case, or what blew my mind about this case, was the fact that he was arguably one of the smartest, most brilliant men I've ever been in front of.

59:18This guy was on the precipice of curing infectious diseases. The shit that he talked about in his work was science fiction to me. How could someone so smart, so brilliant, such a gift to humanity, turn into a f***ing killer, an absolute disgusting piece of garbage overnight. He was the epitome of evil. So we're going up to his apartment, and it was right next to Ground Zero. And he put his arm around it and looked up to where the towers were. And he said, Tamar, this town needs another 9-11, and we're going to give it to him. I've heard him say so much horrible things for so long that you think at that moment in time, I could have just accepted it and gone up and did my job, but I couldn't.

1:00:07I imagined killing him right there and then. I imagined stabbing him in the eye with a pen I had in my pocket and leaving him for dead. To hear more from Tamer El Nouri about what drew him to the exciting and dangerous life of undercover law enforcement work, check out episode 572 of The Jordan Harbinger Show.

1:00:33This episode is sponsored in part by Conspirituality Podcast. You know how I'm always talking about critical thinking and spotting manipulation? Well, there's a podcast that's all about dismantling New Age cults, wellness grifters, and conspiracy-mad yogis, basically the wild overlap of spirituality and misinformation. It's called the Conspirituality Podcast. The hosts, a journalist, cult researcher, and a philosophical skeptic, dive deep into how this stuff spreads, from Project 2025 and the Heritage Foundation's dystopian vision of the future to how former leftists get pulled into far-right conspiracies.

1:01:05An interesting episode to check out is called Speaking Truth to Goop, where Jen Gunter breaks down the pseudoscience behind the wellness industry in a way that is super entertaining and eye-opening. It's sharp, funny, and makes you a lot harder to fool, which, if you listen to this show, you know I'm all about that. From exploring cults to analyzing our cultural and political landscape, the Conspirituality Podcast will help you stay informed against misinformation and resist fear tactics. Find Conspirituality on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and wherever you get your podcasts.