872: Paul Hutchinson | Beyond the Politics of "Sound of Freedom"

23:18His name was John. John worked for the CIA for about 25 years as a top recruiter. After three days, John says to me, we're sitting at a table, me and Sean and a couple of former Miss Americas. And John says, he said, Mr. Hutchinson, I've been watching you for the last three days and I think your country can use your talents. And I said, what talents are those? He said, you're about one in every 12 million has what I see in you. He says, we call it a chameleon. He said, your ability to immediately break down the barrier of communication and become best friends with a billionaire, a bum on the street or a runway model is something we don't see very often at all.

23:59He said, imagine this. We fly you to Dubai. We line you up with some dirty money guys. You get the information we need. You'll have the perfect backstop. You run a multi-billion dollar fund. And I ended up turning them down when they called a few months later because I didn't want to put my life in danger for some white collar crime guys in Dubai. Fast forward a year later, Sean's in a meeting with Tim and some others. And they're like, OK, we need somebody who can help fund this and who can play this role. And that's when Sean said, well, have you ever met Paul Hutchinson? Romney's son was there.

24:29I wasn't there in the meeting, but I heard. And Joss said, oh, Paul would be perfect. And I told them both. I said, you know what? I don't think that's a compliment. You guys both think that I'd be a good undercover pedophile. Who looks like a pedo and is really convincing? Paul Hutchinson. It's a funny compliment indeed.

24:47You're listening to The Jordan Harbinger Show with our guest, Paul Hutchinson. We'll be right back. If you're wondering how I managed to book all these great authors, thinkers, and creators every single week. It is because of my network and I'm teaching you how to build your network for free over at jordanharbinger.com slash course. This course is all about improving your relationship building skills and inspiring other people to want to develop a relationship with you. And it's easy. It's not cringey. It's very down to earth. It's not awkward. There's no cheesy tactics that are going to make you blush before you hit send and then cringe and pucker up, if you know what I mean.

25:20It takes a few minutes a day and many of the guests on our show subscribe and contribute to the course. Come join us. you'll be in smart company. You can find the course at jordanharbinger.com slash course. Now, back to Paul Hutchinson. How do you even begin to get in touch with the right people, the traffickers, right? I would imagine you can't just walk down the streets of Cartagena and be like, hey, I'm looking for some underage kids. No. Where does it begin? It begins, number one, coming into country, meeting with the head of the federal police and the guys that you can trust and say, okay, where is the most dangerous area of the city at the most dangerous time?

25:59Those are the guys that you want to connect with. Those are what I call level one guys. They're the guys selling you cocaine at two in the morning in the super dangerous areas. You've got to be able to handle yourself in those spaces. And so you're a white guy in a third world country in the most dangerous area at midnight. There's something up, right? These guys are like, Like, okay, this guy is effed up and you're acting like you're on something. You're not normal to be in that area. So you're acting like you're somewhat drunk or high or whatever else. And you're like, what up? What are you doing?

26:29Hey, what do you want? Some drugs? I said, no, no, we're out of that. But hey, I'm looking for something. Maybe you can connect me with who has what I'm looking for. And then you get to a level two. The level two are usually pimps. The level twos own women and have access to children. For example, in a recent one, this pimp, she was a madam and she had about eight girls working for her, but she was also selling children to the Chinese and she had access from some other places from where these children were coming from. What do you mean selling children to the Chinese? You're going to have to expand that.

27:02Yeah, I say selling, renting them out. So the Chinese in the area were flying in and she was renting out children to the Chinese. She was at what we call level two. In every situation, every single city that we go into, we get to those really dark level twos, usually from the guys in the super dangerous areas. Those level two guys, they have access to the kids, but we've got to find where they're getting them from. We've got to get to that level three. And so the level three will be the one who is physically holding the children. And so in Haiti, for example, a couple of drug dealer guys at a super dangerous area, the guy on the motorcycle with the gun and he makes a phone call, gets us in.

27:42He got us to this level two. Her name was Dee. She was running the strip club. She was renting out kids, but she had too busy of a life. She wasn't holding the kids. So we had to get from her to wherever she was getting the kids. So a level three physically holds them. We have to get there so we can geotag the location of wherever they're holding the kids or get them to bring them to something so that we can do the same. Because that's the whole goal. You've got to arrest the pedophiles. You've got to take down the trafficking networks. And you've got to rescue the children. You've got to pull them out of hell.

28:12But that was what we did for 10 years. Now, my biggest focus is fixing the demand side. Because just doing all of that is not going to fix the problem. It's not going to fix it. Right. It's like burning a cocaine field. Okay, fine. There's plenty of other places we can get the same type of product, cocaine or children. You have to fix the demand side, which seems impossible. I was going to say it was probably easier to fix demand side for pedophiles than cocaine because demand is lower. But I don't even know if that's true. Trafficking, human trafficking is the fastest growing criminal enterprise in the world.

28:44And now the second most profitable. It surpasses the illegal arms trade. It's soon going to surpass the drug trade. And you see this on the movie. We had Jim Caviezel say this line. You can sell a bag of cocaine once. You can sell a child five or 10 times a day for the next five or 10 years. And the demand is there. That's what's sick. There was more money made last year in human trafficking than all of the airlines of the planet combined. It's billions and billions. They figure in human trafficking as a whole is about$100 billion. $150 billion per year business. $150 billion. But that includes all trafficking.

29:21This is where people who are either misinformed or disingenuous, and by the way, I'm not accusing you of this. I'm just saying it's all over the internet. They'll say, it's$150 per year business selling kids for sex. No, that's all human trafficking. So adult labor trafficking, people smuggling others across borders for economic reasons, it's not selling kids for sex. That's actually a relatively small part of it. The problem is, what if it's only a billion dollar per year business? That's still way too big of a business for way too disgusting of a crime. Absolutely. When people ask me questions about, oh, tell me about adrenochrome.

29:55Is that true? I said, listen, I'm not going down any roads of anything that I haven't seen myself. But what I have seen is bad enough. An 11-year-old being sold to me as a virgin by itself is bad enough. That's something that we can fix. So yeah, even if it's a billion-dollar-a-year industry, that's bad enough. But the thing that nobody's talking about, because we're all thinking, oh, this is the thing we need to send Rambos down to Columbia to fix the problem. Guess what? The problem is likely in your own home or in your neighbor's home or whatever. The problem with child sexual abuse is rampant, is everywhere.

30:31And so people ask me, what do we do about this? Hug your kids. Why? Because the highest likelihood of a child that gets traffic traffic is one that's a runaway, a broken family, things like that. So having that healthy relationship and even more than that, having a relationship with your kids where you can communicate with them where they feel comfortable coming in and saying, hey, you want dad? I don't like hugging Uncle Harry. Having that relationship with them where they can be in tune with their feelings and be okay with sharing when they're uncomfortable with something. That's way more important than sending money for some Navy SEALs to go into Columbia.

31:04Yeah, I agree. I'm glad to hear you say that because what I was shocked to learn when I started researching this more is that a large amount of trafficking, of course, happens in the United States. And a large portion of those kids are what are called throwaway kids who are infiltrating sex for a place to stay, food because they were kicked out of their house, because they came out as gay to their parents, or they ran away because they're in an abusive situation. And most kids were actually trafficked by family or somebody that they knew or somebody who was pretending to be someone they could trust, like a boyfriend or other sort of family member.

31:35And a lot of the kids who are trafficked in the United States, they actually go to school, which I found really surprising because what you think is it's, oh, it's a kid from from Central America who's been illegally smuggled in. Not really. There was a woman who gave a TED Talk on trafficking. She went to my high school, which was in like an affluent area of Michigan. She had good parents, but some boyfriend she had got her drunk, took dirty pictures of her when she was in high school and was like, I'm gonna get your dad fired from his job if you don't do what I say. So she snuck out every night and was turning tricks and giving this guy the money, basically.

32:08That's what most trafficking looks like. And this was while she was in high school. So most trafficking looks like that. I guess that's where some of the criticism comes in for Sound of Freedom, which I would love to discuss with you. I know we talked about it pre-show, which is a lot of experts, they're challenging Sound of Freedom. They're saying, hey, this paints an inaccurate, sensationalized picture of child trafficking. It's not kids stolen from a modeling shoot from Honduras and smuggled to Colombia or some other place. It's the stuff happening at home or near home. What do you think about that?

32:38Yeah, absolutely. Now, I will say this, the things that we showed on the movie happened. Now, Tim didn't kill that guy. In fact, that's a whole other story. It's a whole other country, a whole other child and a whole other team that went in there for them. However, those things do happen, but they're not the norm. Everybody that was there were really bad guys. The stories of the children really happened on different rescue missions that we did of how those children were taken and brought in. But the majority of children that are being trafficked today, the majority of them actually sleep in their own bed at night.

33:12That's something that people are like, what? They're sleeping. No. Yeah, they do. They sleep in their own bed at night. They're being trafficked by their mom. They're being groomed by their uncle. Their babysitter is telling them, hey, you're going to lose your virginity anyway. If you lose it through these guys, you can make some money. That's what's really going on. And that's what we have to be aware of. And yes, I'm happy that The Sound of Freedom is doing so well, primarily because I'm part of it and an executive producer and investor, but more importantly, so that it can at least start the conversations so that people can say, OK, now I'm motivated.

33:43What do I do? The worst thing that you can do is go try to be a Rambo in Latin America and go find kids. That is the absolute worst thing you can do. Second worst thing you can do is decide you're going to just randomly fund whatever organization says that they're being Rambos and going and rescuing kids because half of them, that money is going to pay for somebody's ego and somebody's logo and not necessarily directly to where the problem is. But the best thing you can do is take a look at what's going on in your own neighborhood with your own kids, maybe your kids' friends who suddenly have a change of energy and they're super low self-esteem and everything changed about their outgoing nature.

34:19And you're wondering what's really going on there, maybe talking to their parents and maybe their parents have the challenge or it's an uncle, whatever. That's the most common thing. And that's what we need to be aware of as parents. I think there's something to that. Also, I looked at some of these organizations. A lot of them are not nonprofits, which is already sketchy. And some of the ones that are nonprofits, you can look on Charity Navigator and find what the executive compensation is. And it's a little gross. A lot of times people will say, like my parents the other day were like, oh, I can't believe the CEO of the Red Cross makes $698 ,000.

34:53And I had to explain that that person could work at a Fortune 500 company and you'd be adding a zero or maybe more than one zero to that figure for their compensation because the International Red Cross is a massive organization. There's a lot of moving parts. That person has a lot of specialized knowledge. They're probably coming off a 20 or 30 year career running companies and they took a massive pay cut, like 90 plus percent to run something like the International Red Cross. But a lot of these organizations that do this, that rescue kids are really small. And then the compensation is still$600 ,000.

35:24And you go, wait a minute, this is like a large double digit percentage of the operating budget goes to the salary of one or two people. That to me is very grifty. So you have to be very careful where you put your money if you're donating to these causes. 100%. In fact, for the last five years, my foundation, the Child Liberation Foundation didn't have overhead. Now, granted, I wasn't bringing in outside money either. It was a 501c3 that I would put my own money and whenever I wanted to donate, and then it would go there and it would donate money from it as a fund, a fund type of a thing to other foundations that were vetted and specifically to operations.

36:02I hate writing checks for just putting it into their foundation because I don't know where it goes. I don't have the see-through. And And so instead, I have them present to me, OK, this is what the plan is. We're going to build this healing retreat or this safe house for the kids, or we're going to do this operation. This is our intel on it. And it's going to take this many guys to go in and take down this pedophile ring or whatever it is. Those things, I'll say, OK, I'll fund that. I'll give you$20 ,000 for that. I'll give you$50 ,000 for that, because I know that it's going directly to the cause.

36:30It's not going to pad somebody's pocket. Yeah, I think that's important. But not everybody has the ability to do that, right? They just Google child rescue or they see somebody on a podcast like this and they're like, oh, let me donate to this guy. And I also got duped by this kind of thing in the past where I'll have somebody on and they'll say, oh, we're doing all this stuff. And then you find out they're making 600 grand a year. Their wife and kids are also on the board of the organization getting paid and they travel by private jet. And you're like, wait a minute. I thought you're supposed to be kicking down doors.

36:57And then you realize this is part of the criticism of the movie, right? They say, hey, this is a sensationalized version of this problem. It covers less than 1 % of the issue. And I don't necessarily agree with that criticism. Yes, it's probably a small part of it, but it's hard to do a movie where the trafficking is really boring and milquetoast and mundane, yet really damaging because nobody wants to go and see that. So I understand, I get it. Well, and understand this, the movie was actually toned down from some of the things that really happened. When you're going in and you're meeting with people who are selling children, these are not nice people.

37:32Now, yeah, they did a good job with the jungle scene, But these guys, there's been multiple cases where we have met with some super bad people. There was guys that had eyes on us, that had guns on us. And one wrong move. I had one situation. I'm telling you what, Jordan, this was the closest I came to dying. I was with this trafficker. He was super high level trafficker. And everybody is referring us to one guy who then worked for him. He says, this is my boss's boss. This guy was smart. And he says to me, after we told him what we're looking for, and he already had a bunch of these kids, he said, give me your business card.

38:02And so I handed him my business card and him looking at my business card, he said, tell me your phone number. Now, if I didn't have my undercover phone number memorized like my own, I would have been shot for sure right there. And it had my phone number, a fake phone number, a webpage and everything else. And then he said, take out your phone. And I took out my phone, he used to show it to me. And I'm showing him his, my phone, and he dials my undercover phone number on my card. Fortunately, I was smart enough to have everything tied in where boom, his phone number rings on my phone and he smiles.

38:35He goes, I like you. He says, now let me show you. And he took us to where the kids were, et cetera. The federal agents in that country, when I typed up the report that night, the next morning I had missed nine phone calls. They're like, get out. I'm like, what? We've been trying to get with this guy for three years and you got his phone number within 24 hours in the country. These are the kinds of things that happen when you're going up against these guys who are really, truly selling traffic and kidnapped children. But the reality is the majority of the problem that we need to fix as society is not just liberating a 10-year-old from the traffickers' hands in Honduras.

39:11It's liberating the 10-year-old inside of every 20, 30, 40-year-old man or woman who's dealing with childhood trauma and dealing with the fact that most of our children at some point in their childhood are in a precarious position with somebody who potentially could be a pedophile or could be harming them physically or verbally. I did see quite a bit of criticism before I went to go see the movie. And a lot of it hinges on, hey, the film portrays children being snatched and kidnapped by strangers. And of course that happens. But it's, like you said, a myth that most traffickers target victims that they don't know.

39:46And I verified this. The U.S. National Human Trafficking Hotline actually said most victims are trafficked by somebody that they do know. So it's not where somebody gets nabbed in a Target parking lot. I think the criticism is well-intentioned, though, right? It's the idea that if human trafficking or child trafficking involves forceful kidnapping and imprisonment, it makes it harder for people to grasp more complex trafficking cases. Just from a legal perspective, if you've got a case of, let's say, coercion or psychological manipulation, which is usually what gets people trafficked, children especially, and the jury is expecting a Liam Neeson movie, you're not going to get a conviction.

40:25And it makes it harder for survivors. Wait, so this person just said they were gonna do bad things to you, but you were related to them and then you did all this stuff? I don't know. That doesn't sound like, that doesn't sound like what I have in my head. We have the same problem with DNA evidence in trials, right? Everybody's seen so much damn CSI that when somebody has a bunch of evidence, the prosecutor has a bunch of evidence, they'll go, where's the DNA evidence? DNA evidence? We don't need DNA evidence. We have a body, we have a weapon, we have a motive. The alibi doesn't hold up in the life.

40:53If there's no DNA evidence, then you should be able to get that really easily because I watched CSI Miami and they always have DNA evidence. They found a hair in the parking lot. And it's like, that's the criticism that people are leaning into. But I get it, Paul. I get it because we want to believe that the people who are selling children and trafficking children for sex are the people in the movie, right? Scorpion tattoo on the face. It makes people really uncomfortable to think, and myself included, it makes me uncomfortable to think that some of these things happen in your own neighborhood by the person that you think is probably just a normal guy in a normal house with normal kids or somebody they've run into at Starbucks.

41:32Yeah, it is. And a lot of times it's family members. You have to be super careful. And I have family members that were raped by their father, by their grandfather, that nobody even knew about until they were adults. In fact, the average age of somebody who comes out and says and admits or tells other people that they were sexually abused as children, the average age is 52 years old. That's my age. I've got grandkids. If you've held on to that kind of trauma your whole life, how does it come out? Was it coming out in verbal abuse, in anger issues, in sometimes physical abuse? Literally two out of every three people, God bless them, if they were abused as children, two out of every three are able to grow up and never pass that on.

42:15In fact, most of them use it as a motivation to make sure that children are protected in their life. However, However, one third of people who are abused in any way as children become contact offenders themselves, pass that abuse on. And so people ask me a lot, Jordan, Paul, how can you go face to face with somebody selling you a child and not have them see your anger and your hatred? And my answer surprises them and it pisses them off sometimes. And this is what it is. There's a part of me that feels some compassion. You have compassion. They're selling you a child. No, I will do everything in my power to ensure they never hurt another child again.

42:54But what I wish more than anything is that I had a time machine could go back 10 years or 15 years or 20 before they ever hurt a child or touched a child. What if we could go back to that point and say, OK, what is it about your childhood that we need to work through? What do we need to fix in your life that's leading you down this dark road? Now, that's not an excuse for anybody who's ever passed it on. There's no excuse there. However, there's no such thing as a time machine, but there are hundreds of millions of people today who have not yet passed on their trauma in any way that if we could have a compassionate heart and come forward and say, OK, these kids in elementary school and junior high school and high school that had some challenges were abused as children.

43:38Can we help them? Can we put together programs for them so that they can truly let go of that trauma and not bring it into their adulthood where they could ever pass it on? Those are the ones that we should have compassion for and help. Then the next generation won't have this massive amount of generational trauma being passed down again. This is the Jordan Harbinger Show with our guest, Paul Hutchinson. We'll be right back. If you like this episode of the show, I invite you to do what other smart and considerate listeners do, which is take a moment and support our amazing sponsors. All of the deals, discount codes, and ways to support the show are at jordanharbinger.com slash deals.

44:21And you can always search for any sponsor, well, at least most sponsors using the AI chatbot on the website at jordanharbinger.com slash AI. Thank you for supporting those who support the show. Now for the rest of my conversation with Paul Hutchinson. Before I went to see the movie, a lot of people were like, oh, this is QAnon adjacent. And I was like, oh, gosh, I'm not going to go see that. And then I went to go see it because I needed to sort of hear it for myself. I actually didn't get that messaging at all. As people know from the show, I am not interested in QAnon's conspiracy theories. We debunk that disinformation all the time.

44:57I'm very vocal that those people are batshit crazy believing in a lot of this stuff. I researched when this movie was produced and filmed. was actually produced before QAnon was really a thing. If it is QAnon adjacent, it's purely coincidental because the whole movement started after the movie was produced. There's no tie within the movie itself or the original producers. There's nothing. The only ties that people are getting is the fact that Jim Caviezel, who plays the Homeland Security agent in the movie, Jim has spoken at some of those conferences and Jim believes a lot of those things. And I'm not dishing him for his beliefs there, but when people ask me, do you believe that stuff?

45:35I say, listen, I'm sorry, but I'm going to tell you exactly what I have seen. And that's bad enough. So all of this other crap about people drinking blood and adrenochrome or even the QAnon stuff where now understand this, I voted right pretty much my whole adult life. But this is not a political issue. It's not. And anybody that would make this a political issue is going down the wrong path. It shouldn't divide us. This subject should unite us. All of us can come together and say, okay, this motivated me. It woke me up about, hey, there's probably problems out there. Let me get some more information about really what's going on and how can we come together in a spirit of unity to truly help to liberate humanity as a whole from whatever this dark plague is that's affecting our children.

46:29That's not political. So yeah, the only reason why people are tying it is because some of the people involved in the movie have spoken at some of those conferences or are involved with that. Yeah, that's a very diplomatic way of putting it. And good job, because this is definitely where the audience was gonna decide if you're insane or not. But it's also a tough one, because on the one hand, and I'm not, again, I'm totally not accusing you of this, it helps sales when tons of conspiracy theorists buy tickets for your movie. So do I wanna discourage that? But on the other hand, it does damage the cause that you're passionate about when people say there's trafficking, but then they follow it up with an insane theory about how Hillary Clinton is drinking kids' blood in the basement of a pizza parlor in order to stay young or whatever.

47:08And people will throw the baby out with the bathwater. I was almost one of these people. They'll say, well, crazy Uncle Frank is the one who told me about the trafficking problem but then she thinks there's microchips in every vaccine and that chemtrails are changing our DNA so we can write off anything that crazy Uncle Frank says. It's a logical fallacy to do this But that's how people operate. It's the genetic fallacy. But at the same time, if somebody says crazy shit all the time and they get one thing, you don't go, oh, let me investigate that. You just go, I don't even want to hear it anymore, Frank.

47:39Have a good day. And that's the worst thing that can happen with this division is for people to, as you say, throw out the baby with a bathwater. We can't allow the crap that's out there that's trying to divide us on this principle. The kids are something that we can all come together. I tell people, I don't care if you're white or black or rich or poor or fat or skinny, or it doesn't matter. We are all one people. We are all one. In fact, the very thing that is at the root of trafficking and of sexual exploitation of children, the thing at the root, it starts with when we look at each other as anything other than that divine light of God that is in each one of us.

48:24I see everybody as an equal. It doesn't matter if they're a woman, if they're a different color than me, if they're a different country, it doesn't matter. And this is why pornography is challenging for people is because when you take a woman from a divine feminine to an object and you start objectifying that and you dehumanize that intimacy and that connection, that's what takes people down this road of now dehumanizing more. And so when we're looking at each other and seeing each other as anything other than the divine light that's in us, then we start going down that road. And this division is not going to help this problem.

48:59It's going to exacerbate. You said exacerbate, but I feel like we should leave that in because that is a funny, that is a funny flub in the context of this episode. How much does it cost to do these rescue operations, changing the subject? Because I'm going to start giggling. In fact, I'll answer that with this question. This is a beautiful story. I just got married two months ago and I met my wife about five years ago. We were in Haiti. I had done the undercover work for the 34 kids that were there. Did you meet your wife in Haiti? We met in Haiti. Yeah. Wow. You don't hear that every day. And here's the thing.

49:33Meeting a beautiful Colombian actress is cool, but when she's donating her time at an orphanage in Haiti, that's badass. And I've been to Haiti a lot and girls like that aren't there. The girls have beautiful hearts there, but you don't find an actress level, just gorgeous. But she had a heart, like a huge heart. And it was like, wow, okay. An example of that in terms of how much it costs for the kids is a few months later, we were going to a gala. It was one where I needed my tuxedo. She didn't have a gala dress. So I took her shopping and we found this beautiful dress. It was a huge expense.

50:04It was about$2 ,000. And she looks at the tag and she said, Paul, what's the average cost of rescuing one of these traffic children. I said, average, it costs us average about$2 ,000 a child is what it costs. She said, I'm not wearing a child. She said, you can buy me a$200 dress instead and we can donate the rest of the money to the foundation. I'm like, oh, that's my girl right there because my past relationships all were all about Louis Vuitton shoes and all this crap. And she's like, no, I'm not wearing a child. That's the average cost. In fact, one of my undercover operators, one of the best ones, he came into my office years ago and he said, Paul, he said, I want to fund a mission?

50:42What does it cost? I said, the average cost is about$25 ,000 per mission. And we were averages 10 to 15 kids that were able to get on a mission. He writes a check right there. He said, here's 25 ,000. I want to fund the mission. And he hands it to me. And he said, now I want to go with you on the mission. I gave him the check back. I said, bro, you can't buy your way on a mission. I said, I've been training for decades. This is super dangerous. You can't just show up. Here I am. And he said, listen, you tell me what I have to do. I don't care if it takes me 10 years to get to the point where I'm ready.

51:11And so I gave him the phone number of my Krav Maga trainer. And this guy, my trainer, he's one of the best. He's like one of only 10 that's qualified to go back to Israel and train the trainers every year. And so his name is Joseph. And Joseph calls me like five, six months later. He said, Andy has been in every single day. He's been training two to three hours a day. He hits like a freight train. He said, he's probably safer undercover than most of your Navy SEALs. So that's the two stories to answer the question of what it costs to rescue a child. But that's just in our undercover stuff in third world countries.

51:43It's about$2 ,000. Who trains the undercover work? Because Krav Maga and hitting like a freight train is great, but the idea is not to get caught and have to use Krav Maga to get out of a sticky situation, right? Like that would be the most important skill set followed very distant second by the ability to not get killed doing it. Yeah, absolutely. In fact, your goal is to not ever get in a place where you have to use self-defense to deal with it. And so years ago, we had about 350 guys try out that were all people that wanted to do undercover. Most of these guys were former special forces. These are Green Berets, Navy SEALs, just badasses.

52:19And they all came out to Utah and we had like a two week training type of a thing. There was only three of them out of the 300 that ended up going undercover with this because most people can't do that. We had one of our former CIA guys who had been doing training with him. okay, now I want you to have a conversation with me about, and it's a dark conversation, one too dark for the radio, right? For us to be talking about here. He said, I want you to say this and this without throwing up. And most of them can't. Those are dark conversation. The very first time I went undercover and this trafficker leans forward halfway through this meeting.

52:53And he says, Pablo, I have a gift for you. I said, really, what's your gift? And he hands me his phone and there's a picture of an 11 year old girl on the phone. Now in the movie, that was depicted as Tim giving me the photo of the little girl and that convinced me. In reality, I was already there. I was already in that first meeting with the traffickers, but that galvanized my commitment. When he shows me this phone and there's an 11-year-old girl and he says, she's still a virgin. We call her princess. And he starts going down this road of things I could do to this little girl. And I was like, and the Navy SEAL that was behind me, he had to excuse himself.

53:29He's like, I'm gonna go check out the perimeter, make sure that we're good. He said later, he said, I almost unholstered my weapon and shot him right there. That girl looked like my daughter at home. But I knew if I did, we'd never get to the rest of the kids. Yeah, you need acting chops and you need to be able to think on your feet. We've done many an episode with an undercover agent here. By the time your weapon is out, the cover is blown and you're probably seconds from dying, depending on how far your team is away from you slash wherever you are. And that makes a lot of sense. So the movie's just massive.

53:58I know you're down in Honduras right now in Central America trying to spread the word about the movie itself. How's that going? Yeah, everybody here has already heard of it. The movie's been out three weeks. Every TV station has already heard about it. All the people, the restaurants, this guy that's hosting me, he's running for president down here. He introduced everybody's already heard of the movie down here. And they're so excited to see it. So excited. So what's next for me? First of all, continuing to tour around and doing these screenings with the film. That's priority number one is to make sure that the momentum that we saw in the U.S.

54:32continues everywhere so that we can start having the conversations that couldn't be had before. I was with a gal last night and she said, the thing that I like best about what you're doing here is the fact that this is opening up the ability for us to have conversations. Nobody wanted to talk about trafficking before in any way. Now, she was one that understands really what's going on in terms of the grooming and the house and the 90 plus percent of people who are trafficked are by a familiar member, etc. So she understands that. She said, but I could never talk about it because it was too dark for polite conversation.

55:04Now, this movie is making it so that the conversation is somewhat palatable. So by continuing with this process, going around the world with this now, realize this, I had zero social media for 10 years, zero. I couldn't. I was doing all the undercover work. And so I shut down Facebook, Instagram, all of this stuff. and it was about six months ago where I decided I had just finished some rescue missions in Ecuador and I looked at the numbers and I realized there was more children being sold today than there was 10 years ago. So if my goal was to eradicate child trafficking, if that's the commitment that I made when I'm sitting in front of that little girl that was crying in Colombia, if that's the commitment that I made, I wasn't doing a very good job because they're still children and it's growing faster than what we're doing.

55:54And so I thought about it and I thought, you know what? First of all, I'm now in a relationship that I really enjoy and I don't wanna get shot. And number two, everybody was pressuring me. They're saying, Paul, you need to go out there and be the voice. And I said, listen, I don't want to be. I would be super happy with a cabin on a river, with a garden and a gun, not having to deal with people. I don't wanna do that. But can it just be about the message and not the messenger? Can I not be the messenger? because that puts my family in danger with me going public. And everybody, including my family, is like, no, Paul, you have been there.

56:28You've been in the pit of hell. You have seen the depravity of what happens when people continue down this dark road. And you've got the credibility with the business world, with the fund that you've built, and the credibility in the philanthropic world here, you need to be the voice. And I told him, I'm not interested in people coming to paulhutchinsonofficial.com. I'm not, that's not me. okay, we're going to focus on liberating humanity. So that's the answer to your question. Where to from here is liberating humanity? Whatever that looks like. I'm pulling together anybody who has programs they've already created to help people overcome childhood trauma, to help them overcome sexual addictions, pornography addictions, et cetera.

57:09If I can pull together all of these tools in place and put them on a platform of liberating humanity, then I can give people the ability to break free from this low vibration that is creating all of these challenges right now. So that's what my goal is. I'm going to start speaking. I haven't really spoke a lot, but I'm going to start speaking on podcasts. I actually had my personal podcast just open today, very first day. We'll see how it works. I'm just here just saying, God, lead me whatever I need to do. It's an admirable mission. You said you're dating a Colombian actress, though. You may still be in danger, Paul.

57:44You may still be in danger. Okay. So here's my favorite story. You ready, Jordan? My claim to fame is not building a big company or even all that charity work. Here's my claim of fame. So Henry Cavill plays Superman, right? He's the actor who plays Superman. All the girls will swoon over his name, whatever. So my wife's name is Ada Vanessa. H-A-D-A is her first name, last name Vanessa. And she was working in New York and he came in. She was like a bartending or whatever else after because she had been an actress before. He came into her work every single day for a couple months. They started to date and then she met me.

58:16I stole Superman's girlfriend. Not really girlfriend, but there's my claim to fame. That's quite a flex, man. That's quite a flex. And I appreciate that you left us here with something a little bit lighter than child trafficking because I was going to ask you to do that. Yeah. Decent flex, man. I really appreciate you coming on all the way from Honduras. I'm glad we were able to clinch this one right in the middle of the PR fury over Sound of Freedom. And I really appreciate your time. Thank you, Jordan. You're about to hear a preview of The Jordan Harbinger Show with former professional skateboarder and entrepreneur Rob Durdick.

58:51I made my mom come in and meet with the counselor and the principal and just basically sold them on this idea that I'm going to be a pro skateboarder now. Jordan, I live in kill mode. Kill mode is like my lifestyle. You know what I mean? Like I am so optimized and operated such a high level. That alone gives me energy. I track every hour of every single day and have it tagged and it all pumps into a living dashboard of how perfectly balanced my time is. So I've gamified living at this deeply, highly optimized existence that's also 100 % balanced by design. I live as light as a feather. When that system is out of balance, it's impossible to grow into your full potential, right?

59:42And then if you haven't defined what your full potential is and what the life that you want to live and what all aspects of that look like, then you're never going to find it. It's looking at everything you want to achieve and breaking it down to the very first task that you know you can do. The most extraordinary way is to begin to turn the idea of deciding what you want, defining, you know, four or five milestones and then doing one after another till you get to it and doing that in all aspects of life over and over again. You begin to feel as if you control reality because you put something that didn't exist as the mile marker and then you built a plan to do it and you did.

1:00:24To learn more about how Rob Dyrdek dropped out of high school at age 16 and how he now optimizes his life to the fullest potential, check out episode 498 on The Jordan Harbinger Show. At the end of the day, I'm glad I covered this. I'm glad I talked to Paul. Interesting story. By way of numbers, the U.S. State Department has reported that 600 ,000 to 800 ,000 people are trafficked across international borders per year, with about half of those cases being children. Now, that does not mean sold-for sex. That means labor trafficking, people smuggling, and other types of traveling. It is a staggering number, but it doesn't mean that all of these people are tiny kids in sexual slavery.

1:01:07Again, we're looking at 300 ,000 to 400 ,000 children mostly sold for, which is still gross, labor trafficking and other forms of trafficking. 67 % of children trafficked are between the ages of 15 and 17. While there are, of course, cases where child trafficking victims are much younger than that, they overwhelmingly and heartbreakingly tend to involve the parents of those children with substance abuse issues selling their own children for drugs. So it's gross, but it's usually the family and it's usually older children. Not that that makes it any better, but just your kid's not going to get snatched out of a Target parking lot, statistically speaking here.

1:01:44My point is you don't have to manufacture conspiracy theories about child sexual abuse. It doesn't help anyone. It does more harm than good. It distracts from the real problem. It scares people for no reason. It makes organizations that want to do the real work have a harder time doing it. There are plenty of facts at hand that don't involve spreading rumors about a furniture company or a pizza parlor. So let's not do that. And let's not support other people who are doing that because they are either insane or they want clicks or donations. So that's where I stand on that. If you want to hear our earlier episode with Tim Ballard, that was episode 369.

1:02:22He's no longer with his rescue organization, O-U-R. I don't know the circumstances under which he left. So there's that. There's more background on it. Take it with a grain of some salt, just given the numbers I gave you. I'm not saying Tim Ballard wasn't telling the truth. I am saying the problem of needing to rescue children who are sold into slavery for these particular reasons while totally disgusting is a tiny percentage of the problem. And I want to highlight that to unscare you and so that good organizations can do their work. All right. I've beaten that horse quite to death, haven't I?

1:02:53All things Paul Hutchinson will be in the show notes at JordanHarbinger.com or ask the AI chatbot. But transcripts in the show notes, advertisers, deals, discount codes, and ways to support the show are all at jordanharbinger.com slash deals. Please consider supporting those who support the show. And yes, the newsletter highlights and takeaways from the most popular episodes of the show. Going all the way back to the start, jordanharbinger.com slash news is where you can find it. Would love to know what you think of the newsletter. Six-minute networking, don't forget it. jordanharbinger.com slash course.

1:03:23I'm at jordanharbinger on Twitter. I'm not calling it X, folks. and Instagram or connect with me right there on LinkedIn. This show is created in association with Podcast One. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Robert Fogarty, Millie Ocampo, Ian Baird, and Gabriel Mizrahi. Remember, we rise by lifting others. The fee for this show is you share it with friends when you find something useful or interesting. The greatest compliment you can give us is to share the show with those you care about. If you know somebody who is interested in this movie, is interested in this problem, definitely share this episode with them.

1:03:54In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn. And we'll see you next time.