922: Mosab Hassan Yousef | Son of Hamas Founder Denounces Terror Group

26:34That's what I'm teaching you how to do for free over at our six minute networking course, jordanharbinger.com slash course is where you can find it. It's about digging the well before you're thirsty. It's not going to be cheesy. It's not going to make you feel gross, not going to make them feel gross. and many of the guests on the show subscribe and contribute to that course. So come join us. You'll be in smart company where you belong. You can find the course at jordanharbinger.com slash course. Now back to Masab Hassan Youssef. What does Hamas actually want? You have a up close view. A lot of people don't seem to understand Hamas has stated preferences and you hear people on the street argue that those aren't true.

27:11eradicating the Jews or eradicating the Jewish state, that they'll say, oh, no, that's not true. It's just, but it's like they wrote that in the dang charter. Who do we believe, them when they tell us who they are or the current spin? I don't know. What do you think Hamas actually wants? Hamas want to annihilate the state of Israel in order to build their Islamic state. It doesn't stop there. They are looking for a global Islamic state. This is Hamas. So, of course, they can say we are the victim. Israel is killing us. They can use the occupation as an excuse. They can say they killed many of us as an excuse.

27:49That they are looking for something that justifies their violence. And this is why we need to be very careful. No matter what, from this, they want pro-Palestine, I have no problem. Do it peacefully. But in the meantime, make sure that you condemn a terrorist organization organization that want to annihilate a race, a religion, a nation that has contributed so much to the human life, so much to the human evolution. This is the Jewish people. And if we are not compassionate towards this, seeing things for what they are, then we have lost sight. Then we actually shooting ourselves in the head. This is what we are doing.

28:30So with that said, okay, you want to be pro-Palestine. First of all, get to know what Palestine is. You will ask down the street, how many people, what Palestine? They don't know what Palestine is. You ask them, what was the name of the prime minister or the king or the president of Palestine prior to the establishment of the state of Israel? They don't know because there was no such a thing. Because Palestine is such a broad term. And it seems that many people are pleased to project their hatred through this. It's the human condition. It's the human delusion. I've seen it in the Middle East, and now I see it here in Manhattan.

29:08This is ridiculous. Go home. Go find the real life. Go find a job. Contribute to life instead of going against and after the most productive people in the universe, the most intelligent people in the universe. This is something I came to realize in experience. So it's not acceptable. And this is Hamas propaganda. And those who follow Hamas lead, they're not only going towards self-destruction. They are ruining our civilization. And I love our civilization. It's not perfect. Okay. And all civilizations are ought to fall. But this one, I want it to go for eternity because I think it's amazing. I love living in it.

29:51What will stop Hamas? Is war the only path to peace at this point? Or is there an alternative in your mind? They are the ones waging the war. I just gave you a solution. If they don't want war, if they don't want to die in Gaza and cause the death of tens of thousands of people for the next six months or for the next year, could be the next five years, because nobody knows how this is going to develop. If they don't want this, take your guns, keep your uniform. If you don't want to get humiliated, get on a boat and get the hell out of Gaza. This is my suggestion to Hamas. I don't want to say the lifeline I want to give them.

30:27But the honest truth, they are not willing to do this They prefer to see the entire Gaza Strip burnt down to ashes Before they give up their ideology This is the true nature of Hamas So today when I said, okay, here's a proposal for a ceasefire That I stand behind it You know what I meant? I meant only one thing To test Hamas Because the entire world is confused about their nature So I said, okay, here's a test If you love your people If you care that much Get out. Go to Algeria. It's not that far. It's the same climate. People of Algeria love Hamas. They welcome Hamas. Hamas leaders been to Algeria parliament.

31:08They've been visiting with the president. They love each other. So why to die and cause the death of so many innocent people who has nothing to do with Hamas? This is the test. Will they accept this? Do you think they will accept that? Unlikely. How do we beat Hamas militarily? I know you're not a tactician, but you know Hamas offensive and defensive capabilities, I would imagine at this point, having been so close to it. Do you know much about the Hamas tunnels? Have you seen those before when you were there? I've never been to Hamas tunnels. This whole thing developed after I migrated to the United States.

31:44We could have dealt with Hamas when I first brought the information to the intelligence service communities. And I said, Hamas is about to take over Gaza. I was the first to report that. And they did not take it seriously. Then after that Hamas coup in 2007, they took over Gaza. Then Hamas kept on building their military power. And every time we besieged the people of Gaza and we gave Hamas the freedom. This is the mistake. Let them roam the region in Qatar and Turkey and Lebanon, even in Russia, flying private jets. The children of Gaza dying in despair and poverty. We should have went after them, never let them have the freedom to do anything.

32:29Do you think that Hamas predicted this response from Israel in response to the attack? Or do you think they bit off more than they could chew? You said the attack was more, it surprised you in scale. Do you think it maybe even surprised Hamas and how much they were able to get away with? It looks like they were surprised of how many hostages they were able to bring back. Because when they sent their savages, they promised them$10 ,000 an apartment if they bring one Israeli hostage. That was their promise. Those maniacs, when they crossed the fence, they went with lust not only to kill Jews, but also to make wealth and to make security in life by destroying other people's lives.

33:12To the degree, when somebody on their way back, they found a corpse. They kidnapped a corpse They did not only kidnap living beings They kidnapped corpse to bargain For money and prisoner exchange You tell me this is not even terrorists This is dark age savages Unheared of reality That we are witnessing in the 21st century And people in the free world We are failing to condemn them We are failing to condemn this pro-Palestine Shame on you pro-Palestine movement You don't have the capacity to say condemn Hamas. Hamas a terrorist group. Hamas is designated by the United States of America as a terrorist organization for many, many years.

34:00And you as Americans, you don't have the power to just call things for what they are. Instead, you are escaping and going to blame Israel. I don't know what's the matter with this type of people. But anyway, whether they listen or not, Hamas is finished. Even if it means a regional war. Israel is determined. Even if Israel will lose the American support. The Jewish people, they are not going to allow savages, Nazis, anti-Semitism. Whatever you want to name them, they have different names. But they are of the same nature, apparently. And everybody is just unmasking themselves. Like, it's very clear, basically.

34:42Because now it's chaos. And in chaos, this is when people actually show their true nature. So go on. Project your hatred on Israel. But I tell you something. From someone who has experience with the Israeli intelligence community, the most powerful intelligence service in the world, that they are going after Hamas until the end of the day. It doesn't matter where they go. It doesn't matter how far they're going to go. Even if Elon Musk put them on Mars, The Israeli intelligence is going to go after them on Mars and blow them up there I tell you as someone part of the Israeli intelligence operation So this is a promise And for you to understand that this is the reality of the Israeli response You should know that Israel is not going to give up Not now, not this war because they will never allow Hamas to repeat this attack again, ever again.

35:41People will say, oh, he said he was part of the Israeli intelligence operation, or if they heard the previous episodes and know you worked with Israeli intelligence. A lot of people will say, look, this guy's just spouting Israeli propaganda. I'm not sure how we could ever convince those people otherwise, but what do you say to those critics of your message and say that you're simply parroting Israeli talking points? Look, it's the same thing with the people of Gaza. You know, when I first started convincing my father that violence is the end, you know, that was my private conversation with him.

36:12He refused. He insisted on that this is no, this is our right to defend ourselves. In his understanding, this is self-defense. To blow up universities, schools, synagogues, beaches, nightclubs, killing all type of people. Well, Americans, teenagers, Europeans, Israelis, even Israeli Arabs died in Hamas terrorist attacks. So in his opinion, that was self-defense. It was impossible to rationalize with him. Because if this was his delusion, it meant for him to die, to get out of the cave of his delusion. You know, looking at shadows and thinking that they are real. So anyway, even my own father, I could not convince.

36:53And it did not stop there. I saved his life, even though he was convicted terrorist. And because of my position within the Israeli intelligence, he was not touched. And he lived and he's still living today because of my effort to save other people's lives and to save his ass from himself. So basically, what was my reward? He disowned me. And you know what? I don't have hard feelings. I don't have feelings towards this problem because I had to conquer my feelings because of the majority opinion doesn't matter. But did it end at the family level? It didn't end. The entire nation. Okay. If the sound of reason in their opinion means treason, then this is their problem.

37:42I am firm. I stand on a solid ground. I don't need validation from nobody even seven billion clowns out there, you know, say you're wrong Doesn't mean that I am wrong. So whether they're listening or not it begins with words Reject my words then you will have to deal with fire. This is my promise. So okay, you can stand hiding behind your mask of knowledge whatever as outsider observing the outside and label me as much as you want. If my truth is not acceptable, then you will have to go through the fire of truth in order to learn on your own. It's gonna be as simple as that. Either you take it as simple as it is from me, or you will have to go through it.

38:39I survived, but I am not sure that you will survive. A lot of people disagree that the blood is on Hamas's hands, right? You mentioned this earlier. They say Israel has occupied Gaza for a long time. The strikes have killed civilians. They've locked these Palestinians up for decades in a refugee camp. I have to admit, I'm sympathetic to some of those arguments, right? I can't imagine living in a place like Gaza. I spent a week there. It's very eye-opening. It's very, it's sad. You feel the hopelessness. It's in the air. I don't think that excuses terrorism, to be clear, or murdering civilians.

39:10But a part of me understands how people get this way. It's a self-inflected pain. This is what it is. When an entire society is under the influence of religious opium, drugged in their religion, drugged in their culture, incapable of seeing things for what they are, dwelling into cowardice, that they are afraid to confront. They see the truth, they see the predator, but they don't have the power to fight. Then they choose to be silent. Others choose to take part with Hamas. Hence, an entire society is participating directly and indirectly. When a majority of the Gazans voted for Hamas, they made a very big mistake.

40:00Because when a majority agree on something, then they are partnering with this. This is exactly what Hamas did. They won the elections, and now they took advantage of the sheep that voted for them. Now, in a situation like this, a society has fallen from grace. When they agreed to Hamas' ideology, gambling with children's blood, they saw it. How many wars happened in Gaza, by the way? This is the fourth? I think so. Could not they see the first war? how Hamas played them. Could not they see the second war, the third war? Can not they see it now, what Hamas is doing to them? While Hamas leaders sit in four seasons in Doha, paying$1 ,500 a night.

40:48And the people of Gaza are dying, the children, the women, everybody. People don't have the power to just stand and say, you know, this does not represent us. You know, when we have a society that is paralyzed to this degree that does not have the power. Well, they already did. They already did a long time before the strike. You know, and this is what I've been saying from day one. You know, they wanted me dead to contradict them. And they convinced the whole society that this is a traitor. You know, but I lived long after their accusation. And I promise I'm going to live much longer, you know, than all their delusion and their lies.

41:27You know why they hate me very much? Because when they see me, they see me stronger a thousand times when I was back in the region. And they hate to see this. They are counting that if I got shunned by the family, I go into the unknown, I have no support, and I will die on my own. But guess what? I learned how to walk on my own and to be alone. And this is what the model that I'm trying to express to all the useless, powerless, with no consciousness, with no human potential, that they cannot fight and say, screw this. Screw Hamas. I don't want to take part of this. Just jump off the fence. Run for your life.

42:13Earth is big. So you tell me about society. People migrate, even the animals migrate The butterflies migrate When there is impossible condition like this We have human predators That controlling this whole thing called Gaza It's the oldest refugee camp in the world It's supposed to be demolished 70 years ago It's an unhealthy place with no infrastructure Most crowded, or one of the most crowded areas on earth What's the need for this? I don't mind you know people relocating. Two million people can be relocated going into the Arab world wherever they want to go. Earth is big. Why to stay there under the rule of Hamas if you cannot fight Hamas?

43:02You know we're trying to convince the people depart the north ring Gaza to the south ring Gaza and they cannot even obey the order. Israel through leaflets, text messaging, speakers, internet, Facebook. They used every possible meme to tell the people this is serious. We are coming, and we are coming big. There is a big war. We have to eradicate Hamas. And the people still, you know, asleep until it's too late. And now we're witnessing all this civilian casualties. The reality of war is ugly. Israel did not start this war. And Hamas started this war. They are the only ones to take the blame. The only party that has the children's blood on their hands.

43:52Believe it. Don't believe it. It's your problem. Hamas has to go. We have to remove them from power. Because we cannot afford another Gaza war. It's as simple as that. The people want to label me. They want to label Israel. They want to label the CIA. All the people. It's not only Israel in this war. It's the U.S. government, the mighty of the U.S. government, the nuclear power, the superpower of the world is in this war. And do you think they don't know better? Because we all know that there is no way around it this time. We have to eradicate Hamas. Think that this is extreme. Think whatever you want to think.

44:32We are at war and we're ugly and at war, people die. It's as simple as that.

44:41This is the Jordan Harbinger Show with our guest, Mossab Hassan Youssef. We'll be right back. If you like this episode of the show, I invite you to do what other smart and considerate listeners do, which is take a moment and support our amazing sponsors. All the deals discount codes and ways to support the show are at jordanharbinger.com slash deals. You can also always search for any sponsor using the AI chatbot. You can even email me to surface a code. I would love to help you use these codes. That's how important it is. Thank you for supporting those who support the show. Now for the rest of my conversation with Mossab Hassan Youssef.

45:14What do we do about kids radicalized by Hamas, schools taught to hate Israel, taught to hate Jews by both schools, and of course the trauma of being attacked by Israel in this war and in others? How do we recover this generation and the next? It seems impossible. I worry that Israel's incursion into Gaza is the best recruiting drive for Hamas in the history of the organization. Every time they kill a terrorist, they create half a dozen more. And there's the famous saying, you can't bomb an ideology, right? Yes, but also the principle that species adapt and change. So now we are witnessing an extreme.

45:52It's the peak of hatred. There is no place for dialogue and reason. When we were forced to use the last resort, which is the use of force, and Hamas pushed everybody to the corner, challenging the free world and challenging democracy, challenging everybody who's thought that we are over the dark ages of mankind. This is what they did. And they want us to go down to their level. This is why there was no other choice but the use of the sword, the use of the gun. So now the gun is louder than dialogue. This is the reality of war. This is why war is not recommended. as the first option. It's always dialogue.

46:35And Hamas refused dialogue. They refused to disarm. They refused to recognize Israel's right to exist. They hijacked an entire society. They gambled with children, knowing that Israel's retaliation will create more hatred because this is where they thrive. This is the perfect climate for them. They know when chaos happens. Okay, so they wanted to just pull such a barbaric attack in the worst possible way that would drag Israel into the dirtiest possible war where Israel would take the blame. This is Hamas thinking. This is the Iranian strategy. This is the mullah, hatred projected through this war.

47:24It was inevitable for Israel. This is where I get so... I don't want to say... I'm not frustrated. I'm not angry. I'm just furious. I'm just furious about the situation. So basically, you're telling me about generations. This is not the time right now to talk about how damaged. Damage is not only in Gaza. Everybody who watch on the social media, on TV, the atrocities of Gaza and human brutality at its best, or should I say at its worst? How can they forget that? You know, why do you think people are very angry? Because this is bringing the truth of death, the truth of the other side of humanity, of human cruelty, where there is no compassion, where there is no love, when there is absence of God, where there is absence of truth.

48:20This is how low we went. Yes, now we are in modern cities, but I'm not sure, you know, if you continue like this, I don't know all the facades surrounding us and the fashion and the infrastructure, etc., technology, our satellites. And we brag about stuff. And the person who understands satellite and launching missiles into space, let him focus on that part. This is his specialty. Stay out of the business that you don't understand. Don't even give advice about it. Now it's the time to sit down and listen It's not the time to stand and talk to the world Let those who understand the situation talk It's not your turn now Respect that And you know what I mean when I say this words Yeah, I definitely do Okay, so basically if you want to build a generation And talk about, oh my god We are killing Hamas But we are creating many other Hamases Of course, but We have to eradicate Hamas first This job needs to be done we have to finish with this task first this is the hard task then after that we can deal with the human trauma how to heal not only Gaza to heal the entire world by showing everybody that the use of violence is a dead end and what Hamas did was a dead end how do we prove that to be correct is by finishing Hamas in Gaza this war But if Hamas gets a free ticket out of this Because of our weakness And because of our hypocrisy Because of our short-term interest Because of our attempt to escape reality And escape our responsibility Then this is going to be repeated Not only by Hamas There will be many other groups That would say, oh wow Hamas was able to actually bring Israel as a democracy to its knees.

50:22And Hamas was able to create a division in the United States of America, put the United States government in an emergency state. We're talking about Hamas, such a small terrorist group, few thousands in Gaza, but they put us in emergency or at emergency. So how many terrorist groups around the world, savages are going to look at this and say oh wow, it did not need to take the Soviet Union to actually counter the United States. All you have to do is just have a few thousand fighters and you will be able to bend democracies. You will be able to make them big for a ceasefire. This is not going to happen.

51:09It's not going to happen. It's not a point of view right now. We are at war. Let the warriors do the job. Those who talk and very good at talking, the sooth talkers, etc., they can sit down and watch. When the war is over, they can speak again. What percentage of civilians in Gaza do you think support Hamas? I know some people, many people maybe, might even see Hamas as their only hope, their only resistance, but surely many also realize that Hamas is partially responsible for the situation they face right now and did trigger this particular response. You know, Hamas is not the first Palestinian leadership that pause as the protector of the innocent Palestinian people.

51:53Yasser Arafat, it took him 40 years. How many airplanes he hijacked? He ruined Jordan. He ruined Lebanon. He ruined Tunisia. Wherever his people went, they brought destruction and chaos. This is, you know, where terrorists thrive. This is where Hamas thrives, when there is chaos. They don't like order. When there is order, they die. There is no need for them. What the Palestinian people need, they don't need Hamas, a terrorist organization, savages, that they ignite a war in order for them to cultivate wealth and power and territory, etc. They don't care for the people. What people need, they don't even need a state.

52:38What we need, we need to build a nation. And I said this many times. Hamas is fighting for a state, statehood. Palestinian Authority was fighting for a statehood. Yasser Arafat was fighting for a state. Everybody fighting for a state. But no one is investing any effort to build a nation. You know why? Because building a nation requires selfless leadership. A model like Gandhi that would drop all the personal gain in order to build a nation. And that's not me, because I'm not posing as the Palestinian leader. I don't want to be the Palestinian leader. I don't like sheep, and I am not a shepherd.

53:21I'm just individual, and I am enough unto my own. But those who want to be in leadership, those who want to be in leadership, then they better be selfless. Build a nation. It takes a lot more effort to build a nation. And once we have a nation, a Palestinian nation, then we can start the discussion about a Palestinian state. But those, they want the state, because with the state comes power. With the nation comes lots of work and responsibility. They don't want that. They want the fruit, but they don't want the effort or to invest the effort. Hence, to this, I don't know what to call them, actually.

54:03Nothing actually can define them, because they're lower than the lowest definition. That comes to my mind. So with that said, let's finish with Hamas. Then after that, we can help the Palestinian people. We can bring some police force and give them small guns. We don't need to give them big guns. Someone who's moderate, reliable, and we can keep them in check. Before we give them money, we see how they spend the money. How we can borrow land from Egypt and expand Gaza, make a greater Gaza. Instead of this very populated place, we can build economy. We can build bridges with the rest of the world in order to speed up the process of economic growth.

54:42I wrote a proposal about this many years ago. Nobody even listened to that. What we need is to give people education, health care, economy, infrastructure, a police force, so a girl or a youngster can travel safely from the criminals and the rapists on the street. and this is more than enough. I don't want even to think about a Palestinian state. I don't care for a Palestinian state. We have 22 Arab states and all of them are garbage. I don't want another Arab state in that region. It's enough. They have all the human resources. They have everything. Human resources, natural resources, and they are behind.

55:25Pathetic example of beings. I'm talking about leaderships and I'm talking about a majority of a nation that is falling from grace that is incapable of saying that this is a terrorist group, to condemn terrorism. When they agree on something like this, when they stay in silence, they are partnering with this predator. So with that said, let's not jump ahead. We have job to do now. Priorities. Priority number one, eradicating Hamas. Priority number one. If we have a terrorist attack here down in Manhattan, first thing the police do, they go after the shooter to eradicate him. You know, then we can talk about, you know, how we can heal the society from the trauma, how we can bring the economy back to its natural state.

56:15And how can we speed up the growth process? All the stuff we can discuss after war. Now we are at war and it's ugly war. It's very ugly one. I know you've got to run, but as we close here, are you at all worried that Hamas might come after you? When we met years ago, you were, can I say, in hiding? I mean, you were located remotely far away. Now you're more visible. Are you, does that concern you at all? Look, Hamas does not scare me. They should be very scared of me. And I think by now, when they see what I'm capable of doing, they see me everywhere. My shadow, my projections everywhere. and I will continue to hunt them.

56:55Me? Afraid of Hamas? And what's the worst actually they can do? What's the worst? If you think about it. Because in your calculation, you think that the death of the physical body is the end of the story. And I tell them if they want to take my body, you can take my body. But everything that I said about their truth and all the war that I waged against Hamas for the past 25 years will continue. you. It's a fire that is eternal. No man has the power to put it down. Not a government, not pro-Palestine movement, not intelligence service, not a majority of humanity can put the fire that I waged against Hamas for the past 25 years.

57:42This is what I've been in the work. What they want? They want to come take this? Behead me? Try it and see if it's gonna work for anybody. I'm not scared of Hamas, I'm not scared of Al-Qaeda, of these low-life savages. They are the ones that should be afraid. You know, and hence I say, and when I say this, I'm just individual, but I represent money. I represent money in India, I represent money in southern East Asia, I represent money in Latin America, I represent money in America, I represent many in Europe. Many of those who are silent warriors but they are people of consciousness. We are seeing what's going on and we are not counting on governments or United Nations.

58:33Yesterday I was sitting at the Security Council of the United Nations. We can go wherever we want to go if necessary. First, priorities. We eradicate in Hamas. We are after them. They are not after us. The whole situation is so tragic. I'm afraid this is only the beginning. Mossad, thank you once again for doing this update with me, man. I really appreciate you coming back on the show, and it's good to see you. Next time I hope I see you, we have a more relaxed conversation and maybe just hang out. Relax what? We are at war right now. We are at war. We are at war now. We finished the war, then we can be all relaxed.

59:08Thank you, man. I've got some thoughts on this one, as usual, but before I get into that, Here's a preview with the 26th National Security Advisor, General H.R. McMaster, on the greatest threats to the United States. Here's a preview. War is this continuous interaction of opposites, right? You and maybe multiple enemies and adversaries inside of a complex environment. You have to understand strategic empathy to try to view these complex competitions from the perspective of the other. Do you think our divisions domestically right now are one of the greatest threats to our national security? Absolutely, Jordan, they are.

59:46And our adversaries are doing everything they can to exploit them. I mean, Russia's masterful at this. When we were attacked on 9-11, Al-Qaeda didn't target Democrats or Republicans, right? They targeted Americans. I think it's time to really demand real reforms. And if teachers unions are an obstacle, we've got to tell them, hey, you can't strike reform anymore. And we need to demand it. The fact that we're driven apart from each other based on these divisions in our society, what social media is doing to us by driving us apart with these algorithms to show you just more and more extreme information based on your predictions.

1:00:20The fact that, you know, if you're of one political persuasion, you watch one TV network, and somebody of a different political persuasion watches a different one. You're creating two different realities. We're doing this to ourselves, Jordan. We've got to stop. You know, we've got to stop it. So let's think about, let's work together to make our republic better every day. And there are some who don't want to do that. They think that, hey, you can't even empathize. You're not even allowed to empathize. It's a real tragedy. For more, including General H.R. McMaster's thoughts on immigration and climate change, check out episode 410 on The Jordan Harbinger Show.

1:00:58I know what you're thinking. He said how he represents many in India, the U.S., Latin America, and Europe, but he didn't mention Africa or Australia. Okay, fine. Is no one thinking that? Somebody was hung up on that, right? That stuck in my brain when he said that, and I just couldn't let it go. Maybe there's something wrong with me. Well, there's definitely something wrong with me. Maybe there's more things wrong with me than I've been previously aware of. Man, he was on fire today. It's funny because, you know, we're old friends, so of course I've seen him like this before, but I've also seen him totally chill and relaxed.

1:01:28This explosive firebrand mode somehow always takes me a bit by surprise. I think he missed his calling as a preacher or an imam. He's been Christian and Muslim, if you haven't heard those episodes yet. And man, he would have been a very charismatic leader of Hamas if he had stayed in that organization. I mean, you can almost see him just yelling in the same way, saying the opposite of everything that he's saying now, or just saying even more vitriolic things than he's saying now. I know this is gonna bring on the one-star reviews from people who disagree with Mossab and other guests on the show.

1:02:00I guess I'm used to that. But before you draft that review, do know that I'm actively looking to interview somebody, even from Hamas, I would be open to that, to hear their counterpoint to this. I know that's not going to stop people from emotionally barfing into my inbox, as this is a sensitive issue. I encourage feedback, as always, you know. It seems like Mossab is convinced war is the only way. And maybe he's right. I really wish this weren't so. I do lay awake, like many of you do at night, worrying about innocent civilians caught in conflicts like this, be it Ukraine or in Gaza. And as we've said in other episodes here, we have to remember the human.

1:02:37This isn't a video game. It's not a round of risk. This is real life with real consequences, very tragic consequences in this case, of course. Masab mentioned in other interviews, and I know I'm gonna get questions about this, Hamas is not a nationalist movement. It's an Islamic movement. It's actually against nationalism. This is an important distinction. And the reason is because a lot of people will say, well, Hamas is pro-Palestine, right? They are fighting for Palestine. They are not fighting for Palestinians. They are fighting for an Islamic caliphate, something similar to what ISIS had designed.

1:03:12I'm not saying Hamas is ISIS. I mean, it's pretty damn close in many ways. There are some fine points where you might disagree, and experts on ISIS certainly do. I'm gonna have an expert on ISIS on the show pretty soon as well, and we've done episodes on ISIS. However, they are fighting for a caliphate. They're fighting for an Islamic state. They're not fighting for a state of Palestine. That's why it's a big difference that actually is important in the case of Hamas versus Israel slash everyone else. And also, if Hamas is funded by Iran, it seems like they might serve Iran first, not the Palestinian people.

1:03:43And that goes to show you why they abuse so many of their own people as well, use them as human shields, steal from them, bully them and harass them, which they do. And no Palestinian, I think, would disagree with that. I mean, people complain about Hamas all the time, just as they complained about Fatah and the Palestinian Authority. I know Mossab is from the West Bank. He's not from Gaza, in case people were wondering. One thing that's been confusing for a lot of folks lately is they will say, well, Israeli raids are going into the West Bank as well. There's no Hamas in the West Bank. That doesn't make sense.

1:04:15Of course, Hamas has operatives in Gaza and the West Bank. Of course, there are pro-Hamas people in the West Bank. There are pro-Hamas people in Michigan. There are pro-Hamas people in New York, and I don't mean college students with their head up their ass. I mean people who are actually working for the organization. Even in addition to the Hamas sympathizers and operatives in the West Bank, there are other people taking advantage of the chaos, and they think the IDF, Israeli Defense Force, is distracted, and they're joining the resistance against Israel. I really want to remind everybody once again that civilians are dying in large numbers in this conflict.

1:04:51It's truly horrific. And at the end of the day, those are the people who matter, right? This is not anti-Palestinian. This is not anti-Israel. This is pro-human. This is pro-civilian. All I want to do is see the least amount of civilian bloodshed possible. And these interviews, well, they're not doing anything geopolitically, but I hope they're informative for you. I don't want you to think that because we have a guest on the show, we necessarily take everything they say and endorse it. I know that's a tough pill to swallow. And I think with this issue, a lot of people have been writing to me and are having trouble separating the medium from the message and as well from the messenger.

1:05:31And I think we need to be, I would appreciate it if you were really careful about that, because this is very delicate for me as well, just as it is for any of you. And I think some of my commentary in next week's episode, also the redux with Mossab, but the new additions that I have in there will clarify some of this as well. All things Mossab will be in the show notes at jordanharbinger.com. Transcripts in the show notes. Don't forget we're re-airing our original episode with him next week. Advertisers, deals, discount codes, ways to support the show, all at jordanharbinger.com slash deals. Please consider supporting those who support this show.

1:06:04We've also got our newsletter. Every week, the team and I dig into an older episode of the show. We dissect the lessons from it. So if you're a fan of the show, you want a recap of important highlights and takeaways, or you just want to know what to listen to next, the newsletter is a great place to do just that. JordanHarbinger.com slash news is where you can find it. Six Minute Networking over at JordanHarbinger.com slash course. I'm at JordanHarbinger on both Twitter and Instagram. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn. This show is created in association with Podcast One and my team, including Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Robert Fogarty, Milio Campo, Ian Baird, and Gabriel Mizrahi.

1:06:38Remember, we've rised by lifting others. The fee for this show is you share it with friends when you find something useful or interesting. The greatest compliment you can give us is to share the show with those you care about. I know you know somebody who would be interested in this episode. Everybody is interested in this conflict. Whatever side they're on, I think they're gonna get a lot out of this episode, even if that lot is just hating every word that came out of Mossab's mouth. I am very curious about your reaction and your friends and loved ones' reactions. In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn.

1:07:08And we'll see you next time. This episode is sponsored in part by Everything Everywhere Daily. You've heard the phrase, learn something new every day. Sounds nice, but do you actively do it? That's where Everything Everywhere Daily comes in. This podcast makes it effortless. Just 10 minutes a day, you'll walk away with a fascinating fact, a slice of history, a science gem. It's no wonder the show has climbed up to the top as the number one history podcast. It covers history, science, technology, geography, and stories of remarkable people, always in a way that keeps you hooked. Not sure where to jump in?

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