The Politics of Luxury | Why Britain Undervalues One of Its Greatest Assets

23:40And they were like, oh, this is rather nice. And they spilled all the beans. And they spilled all the beans. Much easier than cracking the Enigma code. Savile Row, I think, has saved a lot of lives, Yeah. because of Ian Fleming. I'm not surprised about that. So you were saying about how much this is worth for the nation. I think you're right. I know internationally it's a$1.5 trillion industry, which, I mean, that is not small fry. And as you mentioned, you've got Bernard Arnault, who was the richest man in the world at one point, but then also the people who own Caring, Richemont, you know, LVM is not a one-off.

24:14This is a huge thing. And it goes very, very wide and deep. And when we talk about luxury, particularly in the sense of quality time and quality life and promoting Britishness and exports around the world, you've got everything from everything. You've got all the products that Diageo do. It's not just as we were talking about, Savile Road, German Street. Through those industries, the high-end shops, the restaurants, the hotels, all of these quality, what we call luxury products, the number of employees and the supply lines to those, because they don't live in a vacuum on their own. Because it's about half a million people who are in the world.

24:47Yeah, half a million people pretty much directly. If you then take in the indirect employment that goes with that, it is a huge industry. I mean, arguably, the whole hospitality industry is part of our luxury industry. It's that luxury of time. You know, you are talking very, very big numbers and a very, very key part of what makes the UK the UK and what people buy into the UK around the world. So we should be much more upfront about this is something we are proud of. And it's absolutely at the heart of our soft power internationally as well. And it makes us a lot of money and employs lots of people.

25:19Absolutely, yeah. It's not a nice to have. It's 80 billion. I think it's actually 80 billion. But that isn't. Brander says that's just directly in people who are making suits and ties and shoes and all the rest of it. It's enormous. So to think of it in an embarrassed way as something over here for foreign tourists is totally wrong. It's an integral component of our economy. And again, looking to the future, that's where people are going to want to spend money. And that's where we can compete. And so as a business person, that's where you should invest. Not only compete, this is where we lead.

25:47Well, precisely. But I mean, you know, it's our owned area and it should be much bigger. Yeah. Stuff the French. We can beat them. Well, we always have in the past. Yes, quite.

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27:09The details are in the podcast episode description box. Let's also talk about the way that politics, we've spoken about VAT, but the way politics is getting in the way of the luxury industry in the sense of allowing it to kind of flourish, because I mentioned earlier, business rates, rent, the way in which London has become very expensive for these places to operate, and yet, they really, it's only feasible for them, because no wealthy sort of person from the UAE going to go out to Gloucestershire to visit Emma's shirt factory. They want to get the shirts here in London. They don't want to go and pick their tweed up in...

27:51Can I come in on that a brief moment? Because actually a lot of people do come and go to Bicester Village and they didn't even go into London. They get the coach from Heathrow and go straight up and do their discount shopping. One of the things I tried to get going was an atelier cluster like a Bicester Village but for or bespoke, artisanal, quality luxury goods made by UK companies, and do partnership with maybe one of the great French houses like Chanel or whatever, who, by the way, are headquartered in London, not in Paris, is a good example of why people want to be here. So those are the sorts of things that can actually happen that could be very powerful.

28:22And then you would get people flying in from the Gulf and going straight off to wherever it could be in Northamptonshire, where they would have an amazing cluster. And it's through clustering you get these quality outcomes, because you get the expertise and the skills that get developed, which we're very bad at developing. Yeah, and actually, it's a good example. So I know in Northampton, I remember seeing there's... Sometimes visitors will come to the UK and can do a tour of the key shoe manufacturers in Northampton. It is a thing you can do. The flip side, though, and this comes back to the duty, free shopping VAT issue, is I was with, not that long ago, somebody who's involved with the Vista Village group, who was saying to me that Vista Village here had been the number one in the world.

29:03It was their best sales, best profits. It's now dropped to bottom. Because of the VAT on tourist shopping? Because it's changed tourists coming. They're not coming in the same way they were. I think the Italian one now is the number one. And that's purely on the duty change. And what I'm saying is that it's unlikely that this government is going to be particularly sympathetic towards VAT changes for the luxury industry's benefit. Yeah, if I asked, I collared the chance. At the end time I had a conversation with her, I said, why don't you take VAT off to her shopping? And she was like, no, we're not looking at that sort of thing.

29:34She got frankly crossed. And I think that's a mistake to take that view, because really you should be looking at every opportunity to create employment. And if you think of AI, okay, you know, it's going to be big. And it's going to disintermediate everyone. It's going to be problematic for so many industries. But actually the one industry that will be left unquestionably is the concept of high-end quality, bespoke, human input, hand-made, not computer-made, you know, automated. That's the whole point. This lovely suit I'm wearing is going to be the luxury that people will aspire to more and more.

30:06Yeah. And with hopefully more resources, because technology will make our lives easier and cheaper, it's going to get bigger and bigger. And the other thing with luxury is actually that very point will be the human contact. You know, as AI develops and does more and more for us, people, particularly people at the high end, what they're going to crave is experience. Yes. They're going to crave human interaction and experience, and what these luxury goods tend to have in common, and particularly bespoke goods, is you've got to have humor interaction. There's a humor being involved in the craftsmanship, in talking to you about what you need and developing it.

30:35And that experiential side of it is going to be valuable. And again, we have a real opportunity in the UK to be world leaders in this because we have the reputation and we've got the skill sets and the craftsmen to do it. I was speaking to Mo in a previous episode about this. I saw that. He was saying that ultimately AI can't quite do the designs yet that he can design. And when I sort of pointed it out, that there's an interesting point that there's some longevity in that, he said, Yeah, but also, crucially, AI can't apply tattoos to people. At some point, though, I haven't got a tattoo yet. No.

31:10But it's just a question of time. But as Brandon says, the experience of going and having a suit made, talking to Taylor, the whole point is, you know, I shop a lot online and we're always on Amazon buying stuff. That's great. Well done. Fabulous. but it's the experience principle and the bespokeness to you through the dialogue that you have. And people are judged really by what they consume, actually, how you look, how you dress, what you spend your money on, all that sort of stuff. And so that experience of consuming is sort of one of the things that really defines a person. And that's why the luxury industry is so fascinating and so seductive because that principle of having something designed for you.

31:46I always remember my great-grandfather made quite a lot of money out of some industrial revolution. And he used to buy Rolls-Royces in pairs. And one top top, whatever it is, and one hard top. And the driver's seats would be bespoke to him. Which is a wonderful thing. Also a bit bizarre, since he probably has someone to drive him around. But just that whole principle of that creation of a car solely for you. It just makes me feel sort of warm and cozy. And it's a great thing. But it's the capacity to tell a story. I haven't got my Rolls Royces in pairs anymore. We've had to make cutbacks, sadly.

32:22But it's the aspect of storytelling, isn't it? And the other thing that you stood up in the House of Lords and made protestations. One of the great speeches of our time. One of the great speeches of our time. I advise all listeners, viewers, to look this up. It was in defense of cigars. Yes, it was. It was. Actually, and we got another debate this afternoon. Dominic will speak to this, but if you look at that speech, it is what I thought was so great about that. Apart from, exactly, it was a great exposition on quality of life. Yes. Having that power to make a personal decision about how you spend your time and how you interact with others.

33:04And that's why it was so powerful. It was a brilliant speech. I said it to everybody. Thank you. We need to. We're abrogating our liberties. And actually, this sort of political class attack on luxury and freedom of choice and how you define yourself is at the core of, I think, people's dissatisfaction with the political establishment at the moment. This idea that, you know, you should live like this, you shouldn't make these sorts of choices. And freedom is about making bad choices as well as good choices. Absolutely. And to just tee you up on the speech was ultimately there is legislation going through that is largely focused on vapes, cigarettes, etc.

33:39But what's gonna take a hit is the capacity for people to go to these perfectly legal, currently, sampling lounges and cigar shops to sample cigars and enjoy them in the company of other people. And currently, if you open a club or a hotel in central London, you would be mad to not have one of these because they are incredibly popular places for people. Because whether it's a special occasion or whether you're sort of more regular, enthusiasts with cigars, people flock to these places in a way that they don't to whiskey bars. If you set up a whiskey bar, that's actually quite challenging to keep going.

34:19But something like a cigar or sampling lounge, people just fill them constantly. The hotels, I mean, the one on the peninsula, these ones in five-star hotels. Or the Emery. Yeah, exactly. They're fabulous places and they drive a huge amount of business. But I was very intrigued in researching for this speech. I went to talk to Foxes and Damodoss, for example, two phenomenal stores. They said tourists come in who don't smoke, who've never smoked a cigar in their lives, but they've read about and seen these shops and they want to experience meeting the Sahakians or the staff at the counter at Foxes.

34:50That's amazing. The driver of tourism for these cultural institutions are so important. You touched on a good point, which is a cigar for me is a way to spend time either in personal private contemplation in a world of mayhem or in the company of my friends. And I've got this cigar club in the village where I live in Wiltshire, which has just sort of grown and grown. We've got our annual dinner this Friday, and it sounds a bit ridiculous, but there's so very few other things that you can do like that that allow people to come together and talk in an environment like that. And I think, again, if you think of the post-AI age, what are we going to want to do more of?

35:24Have contemplative, pleasurable time with our friends in an environment that allows us to relax and enjoy life. Life's short, and the idea that we should ban these shops and cigars for future generations in a sensible way, people enjoying them, to me strikes at the heart of the liberty of an Englishman. Quite right, Fermeer, another terrific speech. but crucially, on top of that, the problem it comes up against is this... real reflex response of, oh, poor you, small violin stuff, which is part of the reason why you ended up on a bus on Park Lane? Well, hang on, that was something slightly different.

36:03But it's not. It is similar. Well, there is, because... It's a hair shirt. So we were talking, Brandon and I, about our experiences of being a government minister, and he's told to take his watch off and all your travel expenses are cut. So everyone thinks government ministers fly around the world if it's a first-class Concorde and stuff. That's not the case. I flew economy more often than not, which is fine. I'm there to do business on behalf of my country. It was an internal flight in India. And when you land as a minister on the plane in a country, they often send a group of armed guards on to take you off.

36:38It's all the way they're cool. It's fine if you're in sort of seat 1A. I just assumed that was how you were treated. That's only when I'm being arrested for being drunk on it for rage. In Japan. So I could see the two soldiers with machine guns and a chap in a peat cap behind, starting at the front of the plane. But I was in right, literally the back seat, in between two random people. And they were looking at me as the guards came closer and closer. Eventually they stopped here. And the man went, it's him. And the person next to me went, you're being arrested, mate. Actually, I'm a VIP visitor.

37:07I didn't quite have the same projection. in Britain for the global superpower. And then the other time I loved it was that we did a big sort of summit in the Lanesboro Hotel with some Saudis investing in the UK. Again, you know, another country wanting to invest in this country, loving the cigar lounges, loving hotels like the Lanesboro. And we got rid of my car for budgetary constraints. You know, so a lot of us didn't have cars. I shared one with sort of five other ministers. And so I come out and the Saudi minister says, would you like a lift back to your house in my car? I said, no, no, it's fine.

37:40I've got a car. I basically had to lie. I was too embarrassed to say we don't have one. We can't afford it. So he went back and I saw the bus stopped outside Lanesbury. So I got on it because it goes to my house. And so I sat there with my case, at which point the delegation came out of the Lanesbury and saw me sitting sort of with the window here on a bus going home. And they must have, you know, Britain, what the hell's happened to rural Britannia? Yeah, yeah, quite. But unnecessary sort of penny pinching that made us feel good that we weren't spending the public money. but actually we spend trillions of pounds terribly.

38:08Yes. And a proper car, you know, to take a minister out from a meeting like that, frankly, would have paid for itself. So is it penny-pinching, or is it, again, back to the whole PR thing? It's trying to pretend that we all, you know, hitchhike to work and stuff. It's total rubbish. A lot of it goes back. When we first came in, in the context, when we came back into government in 2010, because of the financial crash, there was this push to reduce government expenditure. Yeah. And I think the view, and I was a backbencher for the first couple of years of that, but I remember the view at the time from sort of number 10 and the team was if we're going to be reducing spend on a range of public area things, then the government's got to show it's doing its thing.

38:48So one of the things David Cameron did was he cut ministerial pay, which got cut and never got reintroduced. They reduced the government car service, all of these things. But some of it, the idea was presentation that the government's cut in its cloth as well, and quite widely, you know, I worked in a department, We reduced our department by about 40 % in that period, improved our output, I would argue, with a good team. But then you get the flip side of that. And I can remember going down. I think I was the first government minister after 2010, when I came in as a minister, to privatise something at a profit.

39:21And I privatised the fire service college, which was down in the southwest, Water on the Nays. And I can remember going down there when we were doing the deal to do it. And the decision was we were going on the train. You can stay in the class, obviously, because your government car, we haven't got access to one to go all that way. And you don't go first class to the train. You can take a fire engine. No. No, I did ask for the drive one all the way. But of course, that meant for three, whatever it was, hours on a train, you can't do any work. Yeah, yeah. Because it's all commercially sensitive information.

39:52So you basically lose six hours of work. Yeah. So as Dominic said, it can be counterproductive. But again, you also, you know, with some of these things, and actually Dominic's point around the time and the smoking discussions going on at the moment, I think plays into luxury as well, because one of the best luxuries we have is not about expenditure, it's time. And the thing with something, whether it's smoking or being able to spend, is that time you can spend with friends, with colleagues, whether it's relaxing, discussing. Luxury isn't necessarily about what you spend. Quality is sometimes about quality of life, and that's about time, or in a product.

40:29It doesn't have to be an expensive product. It's just a product that you value, that's got craftsmanship to it, that is good for the UK. That's the point. I just wanted to follow on one point about the government. One of the things that annoyed me the most, and I saw it firsthand, and it's classic about how wrong politics is about the principle of luxury brand and British projection, was we sold off our embassies. So, the most powerful thing, literally, in the world, are places like the embassy in Tokyo and the embassy in Paris, and going there as a minister and doing a reception there. That makes money, and businesses always said the most useful thing often they had was It was the ambassador's reception where they would meet purchasers in the countries they're trying to do business in.

41:03But we kept selling them off and moving to flats above the newsagents near the airport and stuff. And it just drove me around the bend of that. For a small, upfront few million quid for selling the property, you would lose hundreds of years of brand power. And what I noticed, and we did this in Bangkok, we sold this incredible embassy and moved to an apartment, a nondescript apartment. perfectly nice, but totally pointless compared to the projection, is how many of the Thai politicians said to me, we're actually quite offended that you've deserted this wonderful building to move to a flat. What does it say about your view of us?

41:38Yes, I think that's absolutely right. The backfiring of trying to be down with the kids and penny pinching and cost cutting and all that sort of stuff and vanilla is significant. It costs us money not to focus on the principles of the luxury projection of this great nation. I want to come back after Dominic's had the tattoo and just see the quality of luxury of Dominic's tattoo. Well, it'd be for Moe Popoletto, so it'd be marvelous. I love that because I love monogramming and branding and stuff. All my wallets and everything have got crests on them. I'm going into the House of Lords. The House of Lords actually is a great luxury.

42:11The House of Lords is a great luxury. A great luxury brand. I mean, that might be the wrong word because it's a luxury to have such an amazing institution in this country. but the principle of the House of Lords is always something that, again, we don't project enough, we're a bit embarrassed about the House of Lords. And dare I say it, the principle of hereditary peers, who sadly we are ending in a few months' time. They're the most democratic part. They are, they're the only people elected to the House of Lords. They also work the hardest, they do all the work. And they have such, you know, we're slightly, but the principle of the hereditary peer is also a massive projection of Britishness.

42:46and to think that it's sort of a good idea to get rid of them for lots of different reasons, but actually for the principle of that in itself is something I've been thinking about. No, I quite agree. I think going back to your point about the luxury of time, I think what people have been saying is that brands and so forth, what everyone's targeting is headspace because there's so little of it nowadays. And fortunately, people are sensible enough to listen to the luxury dispatch every now and again when they have some headspace. They should. They should. Absolutely. But the point is that we don't have a world anymore where, you know, the capacity to sort of sit down and read a book for an hour or so past the weekend or whatever, everybody's too busy.

43:29And so having those moments, I think, is that much more important. One other thing I wanted to touch on was, you had a stint as Lord Chancellor. Yes. A great office. Yes, but at a very particular time in our nation's history. So speaking of history, you witnessed it. You were at the very centre of it. Because, do I get it right, the Lord Chancellor is the person who makes the monarch the monarch at the time of the accession? More arguably, for some, more importantly, I made Dominic appear. Well, that was a huge move. That's very... I would like to think it ranks up there. But the succession...

44:10Yeah, I still remember, I was in my office in the MOJ, And the Lord Chancellor signs the certificates for peers, and Dominic's one came in. I took great pleasure in signing it with a very nice pen and sending you a photo, if I remember correctly. Well, thank you. It really is. I'm debating whether to just put the ink on, but no. Yeah, I had this very surreal and very special experience. I was the Lord Chancellor for the accession meeting. Again, a really good example of the world was fascinating, because this is something... the accession had never been on TV before, because obviously when Her Majesty had come in, it was pre-live TV and things like that.

44:50So... Much missed, Majesty. Much missed. And it was a heartbreaking period, a surreal experience. So we had the accession meeting, it's in two parts. And yeah, as Lord Chancellor, I was the member of the government who had to sign the paperwork for His Majesty. But one of the things that has always stuck with me, and I hadn't given a lot of thought to beforehand, was we had been planning in one way or another for that sad occurrence in the sense of losing Her Majesty as a country for actually a very long time. The security arrangements, they don't happen overnight. You know, for many, many years, ministers, civil servants have put a lot of time and effort because the reality is that the funeral, we had, I think, more world leaders in the UK than pretty much at any point for decades.

45:39So it's a big security effort. And I spent a few years both in the local government department and the Home Office in various meetings over 10 years. And even people in the previous Labour government, Tony Blair, would have had some of those meetings just because you've got to be prepared for these things. So I was quite surprised when at the accession meeting, we signed the documents and I just would have assumed with all those years of preparation that somebody would have spoken to a great British pen-making brand, Conway Stewart Yard, or led something, somebody, to produce half a dozen pens that the Archbishop of Canterbury, the Lord Chancellor, the Archbishop of York, the Queen, and the now Prince of Wales, the then Duke of Cambridge, obviously, were going to use, and then the King himself, obviously.

46:26But no, because you think they eventually will go to a museum or to a charity or something, but no. So when we get there, the pens we are given to you is were Bic disposable fountain pens. And if anybody goes on YouTube... This is the equivalent of him showing up or leaving a meeting in a bus. And if anybody wants to go on YouTube and do a little search of the accession meeting, apart from seeing me sign the documents, what they will also see is His Majesty, quite rightly, had a view about the quality of the pens and decided to use his own pen, I think was a gift from Prince William, a beautiful pen, and he used a proper pen.

47:07But yeah, we were given big disposable fountain pens, which I just thought was, I mean, in one way, absolutely quintessentially British, but in another way, a really wasted opportunity to have a great English pen maker do something that would be there in perpetuity. With the eyes of the world upon you. So I think, I remember we signed, I had the opportunity to sign various trade treaties, And I did one in Downsbury. Again, it was a biro that snapped. And so I had to get my own pen out, which had leaked. So the whole thing was... So you were like the king? Yeah, I was. So that happened to the king in Hillsborough Castle.

47:44Yes, it did. Not good. I'd never... I'd just been... You know, this was the first thing I did. I'd been put in the House of Lords where you change your name, so you sign differently, Johnson Langston rather than Donald Johnson. And so we get into Downing Street, Rishi Sunak standing there, I think the Crown Prince of Bahrain or whatever, and it's put in front of me and I realized I'd never actually signed my name. And I found myself thinking, and I couldn't, because we could work. So I imagine Rishi Sunak thinking, I've just appointed this guy as a minister, he can't even write his own name. It's really starting to go downhill.

48:17There is something, I must admit, even at the AccessiMeter, I just remember being, I've never been more conscious in my life about my signature looking smart. Yeah. Because this document's there for a thousand years. You know, one of the weird things in my family, is my great-great-grandkids, that document is there without my signature on. So you suddenly become really conscious of getting it right. So where's the pen you've got on you, the pen you signed? I haven't got it on me, but I have still got it. We need to cut away to a photo of the pen. You've got to send a photo of your document with.

48:46That's great. Yeah, selfie with the pen. I think we need a pen cut away. Which I think brings us to discuss the solution to this. How do you see things improving as time goes on? What do you think needs to be done? I don't think there's an easy, simple fix. Because it's... And I think Dominic, in the first couple of minutes, made the point. I don't think it's the public don't want their politicians to look smart or support UK luxury products. I always had a view, if I was knocking on somebody's door in my constituency or anywhere, I think people want to see their members of parliament being smart and looking professional.

49:24So I was never a supporter of going out in Bermuda shorts and flip-flops and knocking on doors, which some people I know have done. Um, I also... So I personally... I didn't do that. I don't know, you in a flip-flop. Oh, you could run in shorts. But I came from... I lost a fair bit of weight at the back end of government. Because I was big, I always... I have to say, I always had... I was always wanting to look relatively smart, and so I went and had suits, because I was very self-conscious in that sense. but it also gave me an appreciation of the quality and the craftsmanship that goes into that.

49:59And I think it just means, I think it's just going to be one of those things where more and more of us, opportunities like a podcast like this, people like Dominic at every opportunity and yourself, just talking more about why these things are good to give the politicians more confidence around, and it's at two levels, confidence around not being afraid to say, yes, I'm wearing a smart suit, a smart outfit, dress, whatever. and I'm proud of the fact that that is British and that's part of our soft power. But also understanding why these industries are so important to the UK economy. And it's not just always about the high-end stuff.

50:33I was at the Goodwood Revival. Fantastic event. Great place. Great, great British event. I think it's the biggest vintage festival in the world. It's brilliant. And I met there the guys who own and run a company called Private Wire. They used to have a shop in Davis Street. Yeah, in Manchester. Great products, mate. Great codes. I bought a few things for them. I just went on the stand to have a look at a jacket. Anyway, they were telling me they were really interested in actually supplying public service. Some of the military, and they make that kind of quality product. They couldn't even work out how to engage with government and how to talk to the government about having a British producer produce these kind of high-quality products for them.

51:12So I think that the other side of this is not just about high-end, expensive stuff. It's just about promoting British quality products and the government putting things in place to support it. Whether it's through procurement, it's obviously got to be cost effective, but producers know that, so that's not such a challenge. Procurement has got to be cost effective, but also around whether it's the duty on shopping, whether it's business rates and how we do that for UK industry. But just giving that support and being seen to give public support and open support to good British craftsmanship, that's part of our soft power and part of what creates employment in the UK in an industry and a skill set that AI can't replicate.

51:55So we do have an opportunity to have a unique position in the world with us. There should be a sort of portfolio in government, don't you think, luxury minister? Well, there probably is. They just don't do it right. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, the prime minister should drive around in a Range Rover, but he should be sponsored, wearing great British clothes, as should all the government. And I think it's about, you know, we make a great mistake. We think that aspiration and wanting to live a great life and having wonderful things around you is somehow snobbish, but it's not. It's actually human.

52:26It's what everyone wants. It doesn't have to be as expensive, as Brandon rightly said. And politics has gone through a sort of 30-year cycle post-Thatcher where every politician has to be sort of down with the kids and pretending that they're not wanting to be in either a leader position or looking good or whatever it is. I think that's dented confidence in politics. And we should be ourselves, be authentic. I love my life and I like projecting it, but I still sometimes think, should I be doing this, am I being misconceived? The reality is I don't think I am. I think either of us are. So being authentic in who you are and aspiring to luxury and the principles of what Britain makes is actually a patriotic duty of politicians, not something that we should be adverse to.

53:09And Brandon touched on some things that politics and the political establishment can do, which is one, be proud of our luxury industry. It's gigantic, employs half a million people. And start thinking of creative ways to make it a success. You know, clusters, ateliers, apprenticeships and skills. How tax is used to promote the industry, because it'll all come back to us. Because every single luxury export from, you know, the Premier League, Downton Abbey, private schools, luxury goods, Savile Row, German Street, whatever it is, It all comes back to people having a better view of Britain, and it makes Britain more of an aspirational principle in itself.

53:44Quite right, and I think it also binds us together in a common culture as well. Which is a very, very good point. And it's an old culture. You know, the image of how the world sees us is very much tied into this world. And, well, with we three luxeteers taking on... Minister for Luxury, that's a great portfolio. Well, next time you bump into the charts, I think I've got to be opposition spokesman for luxury. I'm going to ask Kemi if she'll give me that one. I think that's a great idea. And so, well, with that in mind, gents, thank you so much for coming down. I think we've made a dent in the issue at hand.

54:21Pleasure being with Brandon. Yes, so Lord Johnson and Sir Brandon, thank you very, very much. Thank you very much, Tom. Great to spend time with you. I remain Tom Chamberlain, and this has been The Luxury Dispatch, the podcast that reveals how the world of luxury is shaped not only by taste and craftsmanship, but by influence, policy and power. My thanks to Lord Johnson and Sir Brandon for helping us navigate the intersection of government, global reputation and the industries that so often define how a nation presents itself to the world. If you've enjoyed today's conversation, please do like, subscribe and leave a comment.

54:57We read everyone. You can agree or disagree, challenge what you've heard or suggest the vestiges of luxury you'd like us to step into next. Thank you for listening, and as ever, happy dressing, and God save the King.