Inside Royal Ascot with Mike Tindall | Tradition, Style & Racing

26:59Yeah, well, he's Sir AP McCoy, but don't worry about it. So that might be why I didn't know who he was. Sir AP McCoy, now you say. Of course, the knight of the realm. Yes, because when you look at the betting cards and things like that, you see colors, of course, of the owners. And the, sorry, I'm feeling very bad about being chastised about not knowing who your jockey was. Don't worry. But it's sort of indecipherable if you don't know. there's lots of numbers and words that you may not necessarily know how to decide it yeah race card can be confusing is there any is there anything that you could say to help people

27:32Mike Tindall:through that particular uh no not really i think there's a combination of because if you look at one layer you then open another layer that you need to delve into so you can look at obviously they'll always give you form for the last six six races or something so you can always look at form but what the form doesn't tell you is what the level of the race was that they might have won. So you could have a horse that's gone 1-1-1 in the last three races, but you don't necessarily know what level that race is. And there might be one that's gone 2-2-3, but they've all been at a higher level of race and would beat the one in one.

28:07Mike Tindall:So then there's number of days since it last run, which is always a sign of if it's been fit and healthy and how long and how rested it could be versus you can't. But then it doesn't work. Like I always remember, this is jump racing, but there was a horse called Quavega that basically only run once or twice a year. So it was like 260 days since its last run and it would always win children. So it's very hard to predict unless you go and watch those races and understand who they're beating because you don't really get a list of who it beat. It'll give you a little comments card about its last run and everything else.

28:43Mike Tindall:But it's always worth doing a bit of work the day before just to see who it's beaten in the race, are they in the race again, And has it won here? Because, you know, then it comes down to ground. Do they like the ground? If they've won here, you also get a little C and a little D. So C means course, which means it's won at the location that you're at. D is distance. So it's one at the same distance as it's running now. And then they have a BF, which is beaten favorite, which is always a good sign. That's fascinating. And now, sorry, just to add to that, um would you say that you have any set rules for how much you'll you think people should like or you have a set rule of what you're willing to put down for a day and lose i mean do you have because obviously this is gambling yeah you might not win um i think i think if you can be disciplined enough to have a set amount a day and then if you can have the ability to stay to a you know a formula that you're happy to bet with you know if you do tipsters they might have one star two star three star horses and then but you bet so let's say you do two pound fifty on a one star but you so if you have a three star you do seven pound fifty so you keep it all for like formulated so that you are giving control of what you're doing that is not a bad way of doing it is there not a lot of luck involved in the sense of you know maybe maybe a horse gets sort of trapped in the back of the group and the job is unable to get out or the i don't know yeah but that but that's also also another way of looking is people bound jockeys because they they choose wisely which horses so you like the great sir ap mccoy yes they bet on they bet on him a lot i imagine uh yes they would have done in time but not the grand national probably because he struggled to win that for a long time okay fine yeah but he did win it in the end uh 2014 is that when he was able to be godfather only once he won yeah otherwise he was dead um and so yeah i think i think people do bet on jockeys people bet on trainers horses that are in good form leading up to it so there's many ways to skin the cat in the in the racing game but this is what's so interesting about royal alaskan is ultimately i would say there is a vast percentage of people who come here who have nowhere near the knowledge that you just spouted out yeah the people love to just well and they'll probably be more successful they'll pick on colors or names well i mean i mean it was just sort of it was really so i remember did you bet on the king that day i did but i also was i was in the uh i was in sheikh farhad's box that day and he had a runner and i also bet on that and it was such a unique being in the parade ring uh with him and he's cheering his horse on and then the king's horse comes through to win and he still cheered because if he was like if you're gonna get beaten by one horse yeah let it be the king's horse yeah so and i think with that sort of we we you know you knew how much um queen elizabeth loved the racing whereas you know we wanted the king to have an early boost in the fact that he'd like he'd have a winner here and that's the perfect start for him to sort of really kick it into going actually i quite like this yeah but i think he's also been reminded it's not that easy since but you know it's hard to get winners here i think uh the queen had 24 i think it's down as 24 winners 10 of big races but you know she had one in i think she had a first in 1953 just as she'd taken over with choir boy so she just you might suggest that that was um yeah first year you will win and i think the last one um was tactical in 2020 i think um so but over all that period of time there's only she had rumored 24 but it's not that well documented but she was obsessed with horses and she just loved the...

32:56Mike Tindall:She loved the breeding side of it. She loved the trainers. You know, Michael Stout was... Sir Michael Stout was probably seen as her favorite, I think, her main trainer. She used to ride the course here. Yeah. She used to get on and she used to sort of go out and sort of gallop down it. Why wouldn't you? There's a nice, lovely picture of her, I think in the 50s. Still her course, really, isn't it? Her headscuff slightly coming off. it's still her course I guess so yeah but it's still crown land but it's written into parliament isn't it that it's it's never can be anything else but a racetrack that's interesting yeah there you go yes I'm I'm passing information back yeah and now I'm going to claim it for my own for next time you take it you take it when we reshoot this and edit you out with Sir AP McCoy yeah my best friend yeah yeah yeah no he's got fathers my kids I thought we spoke about this before but let's let's talk a little bit about the Royal Enclosure because it is a fascinating aspect of this people really want to get into it whether it's by invite or by membership indeed we came here today and parked in Car Park 1 which is very lucky because if you want to do that on the road today you need to wait no chance I think there's like a hundred year waiting I think it I think it's like one of those things that's passed down through family history listen if there's anyone in this conversation who doesn't need a Car Park Pass yeah it is you Mike Tindall yeah maybe You have other accents.

34:24Mike Tindall:I was expecting, yeah, I was half expecting when I turned up today to have a technique in Car Part 1. That's what I sort of expected you to do. I was looking forward to my prawn sandwiches. Yeah. The producers. Slightly disappointed. Oh, yeah. Sorry. Damn you, Sam. Yeah, exactly. So the Royal Enclosure itself, there was always a sort of private spot for royals towards the finish line. But even before the parade from Windsor Castle came along, George IV brought in this idea of a royal enclosure in 1822. But it wasn't until 1845, and Quinn Vittorio was on the throne by then, that it was the Tsar Alexander was visiting.

35:07And there was this sense that there was a little bit of a security risk when it came to people flooding the Winner's Circle and all these sorts of things. So the Royal Enclosure that we know today came in 1845. And I have a gripe with the Royal Enclosure. Uh-oh. To those watching, just so you know, there are ASCAP representatives behind the cameras watching carefully, but I nevertheless will raise my gripe.

35:34Mike Tindall:There's a red dot on you right now, but go on. It's going to be okay. Where you watch the races from, on the stands here and so forth, you can see the race happening. If you're in the Royal Enclosure, where you watch from is past the finish line. So actually, you miss a lot of the action. So it is a really interesting aspect of us discussing people wanting to get to the Royal Enclosure. Of course, there are screens everywhere. And even at the back, there's a massive screen that people watch stuff on. You can leave it, you know? Yes, you can. You can walk through and watch on the race course. Yes, you can.

36:15But there is the iron stand, and the iron stand is historically interesting because it was divorced. I know, I love this. Men were not allowed into the royal enclosure, lest they got up to sort of naughty shenanigans, because they were now free and single and looking for fun. You were sent to the iron stand. You said to the iron stand, I know this. It's the naughty step, isn't it? Yeah, basically. I reckon it should be renamed to the naughty step. And it actually wasn't actually changed until 1955. So, you know, quite late in the day. Yeah. But, yeah, now it's just you can make our tickets.

36:55Mike Tindall:It would be great to go back in time and experience what the Royal Enclosure was like, though. You know, because it's even changed. It's gone through different variations since I've been coming. in terms of a few years there was like nightclubs here like Mahiki and Bougie yeah Mahiki and Bougie would have a a tent down the the back end just on the the back wall of uh Car Park One when you come through there was like nightclubs and who were who were represented here now so it's sort of gone through that so but remember where they used to do pop-up nightclubs everywhere I mean yeah That's very true.

37:32Mike Tindall:Down in Cowes, Mahiki would pop up or something. And then they went bust. Then things changed. So I think even then, they've always tried things. And it's just nice to, it's very relaxed. You've got a lot of space. You can sort of have a break, have a glass of champagne, and then you can get back to the racing. People walk between races. Big trays of cigars around their hips, which is rather good. And are you going this year? I am going, I think, four days this year. Are you going in the carriage? I'm not sure I'm allowed to reveal that to you. I mean, I know that you wait till the morning and then find out.

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42:49Mike Tindall:I feel that we need to discuss it since we're sat here. I mean, we are conspicuous in our morning suitedness. You and I are not actually here on Ask a Day, but we felt it only appropriate to do this episode in our finery. We are officially in the Royal Enclosure area, so we would have to. Fine then. Fair enough. It would make sense. We just had to do it. And it just feels quite comfy, actually. Do you like morning dress? How much do you know about it? I don't know a load about it. I know bits about it, and I'm sure you're going to fill me in with the detail. We're about to have a lot of fun. Yeah, well, what's your space and what you class fun?

43:35Mike Tindall:Myself and Tom, the non-drinker, slightly different ideas of fun, but start your engines. Or mount up. So in the 16th century, there was a form of dress called the juste au corps. and the just au corps was a, I mean, it is that archetypical sort of 16th, 17th century. Pistols at dawn. Yes, but it's almost like a long dress. It's like a kind of cassock, but that flared all the way out. And so this was what would ultimately become the frock coat. and what the difference is between those two eras is that riding became a habit of the upper classes and in the morning you would be known to go out riding on your horse and clothes were adapted and cut in a different way to allow you to be on your horse without you screwing up all your clothing.

44:48And the morning coat and the and to some extent the frock coat, but the morning coat is the ultimate expression of that movement, which is very Jane Austen to ride in the morning, usually out into the distance on some sort of marvellous folly on your estate or something like that. We always we wrote out to your folly this morning, didn't we? And And so, which is why when you see on, you know, I spoke about this with Alice Loxton, you know, in places like Blenheim and so forth, they've got these sort of random sort of structures around the estate. And there's issues just somewhere to get somewhere to go out to.

45:32And obviously, in the old days, you had things like the origins of the term steeplechasing was because they would be like, you know, first of the church. Yeah, yeah. Because the church was the building you could see. So it's like first there. and the morning coat which is what we're wearing now it's also known as a cover coat it's designed perfectly to be sitting on a saddle with so it cuts away early after the button and has a center vent which means that it splits on either side of the saddle and a gentleman always wore waistcoats because the advent of the watch had come along. And so a waistcoat was able to help you hold onto your watch in a way.

46:17So that was why people started wearing waistcoats. When morning dress first came along, everyone was wearing breeches. And so that would come a lot later on. But ultimately, the scene was set in terms of how people were going to be dressing. The top half was set. the top half of the set with Royal Escape. And also with the Juste Court, the tricorn was the hat that went with it. But then when they changed to the frock coat and the morning coat, the top hat is what went with it. And actually, if you look, I mean, they are 350 years old this year, but Locke & Co were making them back then. They were witness as a shop to that being done.

47:03I mean, Americans are sort of trying to wax lyrical these days about turning 250. We have a hat shop that's 350 years old. So, you know.

47:12Mike Tindall:There you go. You know, they've got a long way to go. Anyway, so this is also the era of the great male renunciation. I love talking about the great male renunciation because it's the core part about why we dress today in the way we dress today, which is the renunciation of silk and sort of liveried clothing. So there was a there was a chap called Sir Lumley Skeffington who had... Sir Lumley Skeffington. It feels like... They don't quite make those names anymore, do they? No, but he was a real person and but he He was like a real dandy. He was a fop, I believe, the first one. And he would dress in very embellished clothing.

47:57And it was the likes of him that sort of fell out of fashion. And what came along after that were these dark coats, single kind of block colored waistcoats, and the britches remained. But then along came Beau Brummel, who was great friends with the Prince Regent, our old friend Prince Regent, our previously mentioned Prince Regent, and was basically telling him that people should start leaning towards wearing trousers, because he liked wearing longer trousers.

48:27Mike Tindall:He was friends with Prince Regent until he lost all his money, Beau Bromwell, right? I mean, the Prince Regent, yes. I imagine friends came and went quite quickly. Yes, that's exactly right. The whole trouser thing was actually quite a big deal in Europe, because if you were a sans-culotte, without britches. Yeah, I was going to say, culotte must mean britches. That means you were part of the rebels. So if you wore trousers and men, you were part of the working class. And they were the ones who chopped all the heads off the French aristocracy in the revolution in 1789. And so trousers started becoming a thing that people were wearing.

49:12And so we're all kind of sort of putting these little parts of the jigsaw together to arrive where we are today. But it was Brave Bramwell that said that men of elegance should wear black waisted coats, white ruffled shirts and pantaloons. And the waisted jacket part of it is an interesting part of it. Because what you'll notice on your morning jacket is that there is a seam running horizontally across the middle of the jacket, just below the buttonhole. Yeah. And the thing with that is that that is what distinguishes this type of tailoring and this kind of jacket from the jackets we know today, the lounge suit, which is just a single panel that runs to the bottom.

49:53Because that break is where, when you're sitting in the saddle, you know, this is something that is designed for racing. But then also wasted also refers to this idea of tailoring, bringing a jacket and making it flattering. And I wonder because of Bo Bromel and his sort of, also foppery, was keen on everyone looking - Foppery. Foppery. Was keen on everyone looking highly tailored and elegant and spisky in that way. So I'm not 100 % sure which is which because it could kind of be either. And anyway, we move forward to morning dresser today.

50:32Mike Tindall:Do you like the fact that they've extended to Navy? I don't. shock the thing is there's already plenty of colours to be worn too and that is enough you have what we're wearing which is the traditional one and the grey I do have a grey you have a grey as well inspired by the king actually because I think his looks great his looks superb the The trousers you're wearing are referred to as cashmere striped trousers. It doesn't mean there's any cashmere in them. It's just the design. I've got mine on too. This is my least favorite part of morning dress. I almost think getting racing gray is a much better option because that simple gray is lovely.

51:24But the component parts of morning dress are the body coat, the waistcoat, the trousers, shirt and tie and black shoes yes you have beautifully shiny black shoes why do you have beautifully shiny black shoes?

51:41Mike Tindall:because Tom you might have given them a buff I've washed the show it was the greatest day of my life yeah I gave them a bit of a polish polishing shoes are very very important they waterproof them and they make them look gleaming and glorious and you look lovely I learnt a bit about buffing my shoes this morning of you, watching you work. There was a smile on your face and a whistle on your lips. When I was spitting on your shoe. And now you know there's no excuse. That was a bit weird, but I saw the effect that it had. And the affection with which I did it. So, you know, those are the component parts.

52:18I think if we work up, you know, from the bottom, shoes are really important. My take on this is that Oxfords or loafers? Yeah. Yours is, you're like a semi-cross, aren't you? So yes, it's why I wear them, it's because I really like these as a sort of dress shoe, but it is a slip-on. And the, but then again, when I'm sort of standing up, it does look like a cap toe shoe without, you know, and I like wearing those, I like the grey socks to go with the trousers. And I either wear that or I wear like a sort of light blue to go with the waistcoat.

52:58just foppery. But you shouldn't wear derbies. Derbies are too clunky and there shouldn't be black derbies at all. And then monks are not suitable, either double or single. Can you explain to me what a monk is? So a monk shoe is the shoes you see with the kind of straps that go over the top.

53:21Mike Tindall:Oh, I get you. And so the double monk has two straps and the single munchers has the one. I know exactly what you mean now. You are, I think, due a pair of suede brown munchers soon. So you'll come to know the joy of having them, but I will die if I see you wearing them with morning dress. It would not happen. Good. I think that the great hazard of morning dress, which you see largely after the speeches at weddings, is when the shirt pokes out between the waistcoat and the trouser. I fear that before we knew each other, you might have fallen into that trap. No? One thing that never happens, no matter the situation, everything stays tucked in, everything stays fastened.

54:12Mike Tindall:I apologize for being such a snob. But I'm so happy. It's the first time you've looked at me proudly. I've just impressed my dad. I mean, yeah, exactly. it is yeah no but I possibly didn't do it for the same reason what you think in a situation where you might have played a game of rugby and you leave a bar if you're sure they can say whatever they want about you if everything's tucked in your tie's still done tight and your jacket's still on you always look like you're in the full control of the situation whether you are or not yes very much so and I think there is a cheat for that which is wear braces A very, yeah, which is a new thing that I actually quite enjoy doing.

54:56Mike Tindall:Who inspired you to do that? I wonder who told me to do that. I fucking told you. Pleats next. No, I don't mind. Let's not go down the please route. We're having an argument about pleats. Can we do a whole episode on pleats? I'm just going to do massive tangents. It's stuff for Alaska. Let's talk about pleats. Put you in the whole seat. So with, but that is a genuine sort of hack, because you are moving around a lot. It is hot. You will be sweating. And that is something I really recommend to everybody. If you're coming to Royal Ascot, especially if you're coming by car, bring a spare shirt. If you have a spare shirt in the car to change into when it's a really hot day, it will just change your life.

55:38It is just so, it makes such a difference. So when are you going to do that, though? You just nip off mid-race? you're not racing like and there's plenty of races but I mean

55:50Mike Tindall:I mean how far that is that is taking your luck how you look over enjoying the day I think I don't think no wild horses could ever go oh I'm just gonna nip off stop your shirt I'll be right back stop talking you're wrong if you're miserable because you are just sweating through and you're feeling kind of grimy and gross and you know it gets hot here changing into a nice fresh crisp shirt it's probably cold because it's been in the sort of shelter of your calf but then I'm thinking I need to bring a towel I need to bring some yeah it's a lot of effort I'll just find a cold spot and try and stop sweating the air conditioned roll box or this wonderful longine box temperature is just perfect in here Before we continue, a word from our friends at Longines.

56:45The Swiss watchmaker has been the official time partner of Royal Ascot since 2007, a relationship that reflects not only precision but a shared commitment to tradition, elegance and performance. Founded in Saint -Émile in 1832, Longines has built a remarkable heritage in watchmaking alongside a long-standing role in the world of sport, particularly within equestrian competition where timing and excellence are everything. And this season, Longines will unveil a new addition to the Master Collection, the official watch of the competition launching on the 11th of June. Stay tuned for that release.

57:20I mean, I see why Longines and Roll Asker are kind of partners together. I think that there is so much to be said for the way in which horse racing and timekeeping is obviously, you You know, in the same way with athletics and so forth.

57:42But it's that sort of sense of elegance and sophistication and, you know, matched with the kind of precision timekeeping. I think, you know, it all works very well.

57:55Mike Tindall:It's made such a difference to, you know, furlong markers, timing of each furlong. So you're understanding it. You can now they use it as a, you know, as a visual whilst you're racing. so you can sort of see what the horses are clocking per furlong and you can tell if they're going at fast pace, slow pace. I don't know. I wonder how much that goes on in the jockey's head to know. Like a racing driver, he could say, right, you're driving Monaco and he'll sit there and he'll imagine driving Monaco and they can get it within like half a second. I wonder if jockeys, whilst they're starting a horse, could pretty much pace their furlong as they're going along.

58:34Do you think they wear ear things at all? No.

58:37Mike Tindall:They're not. They're not. They're showering at each other too much. Oh, are they hints of whipping each other? Yeah. Yeah. They get quite angry with each other. I bet they do. And if you wear a watch, you must, I mean, there are arguably watches that you could wear with a steel bracelet. However, this is formal dress. You should wear a watch with a strap. I ideally leather strap. Very good. And like this particular one from Longines. So I have also got a Longines on. There's some exciting news coming out of Longines coming sort of around June time. I think there's a new collection coming in. So watch this space.

59:17Very exciting. I'm enjoying the moon phase on there. It's very pretty. Hands off, as they say.

59:26Important, however, to point out that you should wear a watch with a leather strap.

59:31Mike Tindall:A strap, that's good to know. I don't know whether many people would know that. I wouldn't have known that. That's another thing you've told me. You wanted to come along with your sort of massive steel bracelet watches. No, no, no. No, no, no. Refinery leather strap. So to finish off, ties are the order of the day. Cravats are banned at Ascot. I need to check why that is. Yeah, I was going to ask that. I don't disagree. That's what I wanted you to tell me. Well, I don't disagree with it. I agree with it. I think everybody - And no bow ties. You don't have a bow tie either. No bow ties, no. But people really mess up cravats.

1:00:09I think it can look really sloppy. It would scare me trying to put one of those. It's a quite complicated thing to do. It could kind of look this sort of clunky, huge thing. So I reckon do stick with the tie. It would just look better. And you do see a lot of terrible kind of you know groom parties at weddings sort of all trying cravats that it just looks horrendous

1:00:30Mike Tindall:yeah and it kind of and they get worse as the day goes on great um and then obviously with the top hat now have you ever had a top hat fitted yes isn't it fun it's quite scary at points as well i mean i do worry about your life if that's if this is the highlight of fun that you talk about it is yes i had so i have an unfortunate story in the fact that i did have a top hat made and i may have enjoyed the day quite a lot well first and foremost so i had one uh made for me and then at my first royal ascot i had it i was on the way here and i'd put it down i'd stupidly taken out of the bottle and I sat on it.

1:01:16Mike Tindall:It's first day outing. Didn't survive. It survived and had a crease. I had to look a bit funny the whole day, but then I sent it back to him, fixed it. And then the following one, I might have enjoyed the day too much and gone to the toilet and put the hat down and then maybe forgot to pick it up. And then when I went back half an hour later, the hat was not there, which I thought was quite bad. Yeah, that is bad. that's very bad for and that was in car park two so i know it's not one but fine yeah well it's jockeys and owners and trainers so yeah they don't need any more hats but if you go down the third day i had to go into the shop and buy a new one so it was an expensive mistake as well yeah it's the one that i have got with me today very good wait you got the silk plush one from a hat and yeah did you i bought it from this the royal ascot shop that's pretty good now silk plush is really amazing.

1:02:13All the best looking top hats are made from this silk plush. You know, Winston Churchill wore an amazing silk plush hat at his wedding and, you know, most sort of statesmen and royals and stuff. You will see them wearing them and they got this beautiful sheen to them. But they were made in very few factories and then it got down to be made just in one factory by these brothers in France who fell out and one brother burned down the factory. And people have trying to reverse engineer, creating this silk plush, but it's gone. So you can't do it. This year, the United States of America will be celebrating 250 years, a grand milestone to be sure.

1:02:51However, in the efforts to continue being the bigger brother, we Brits are having a low-key but no less important celebration of a hat shop, which is celebrating 350 years since its foundation. Locke & Co Hatters are an institution, an ancient-looking shop on St. James Street, which looks like it creaks and bends under the strain of its unequalled heritage, the sights and times it has witnessed, and of course, the illustrious people it has dressed. Locke and Co have been the home of hats since 1676. The top hat and other hats we know today would not appear for over a hundred years, and variations like the tricorn was the order of the day to accompany the juste corps.

1:03:28Robert Davis established the hat shop at St. James Street, and it was in 1765 that James Locke, who had married into the Davis family and took over the business moved across St. James's Street to number six and established the shop where it remains today with its glorious and very English patina. Our sceptid isle of Britain was a world leader in many things, but at the time of opening had some catching up to do when it came to the production of hats. After all, the term milliner derives from Milan, as this was the world capital of hat making at the time. Locke would be part of the movement that entirely shifted the fashion, influence, and craftsmanship's centre of gravity.

1:04:04At the turn of the 19th century, the Wall of Fame began to be built at lock, with national heroes like Lord Nelson in 1800 having his famous bicorne made there. By now, the top hat had replaced the tricorn and the frock coat, taking over the justicor. The top hat was becoming the court hat of choice for state occasions, and an emblem of leadership in industry and politics, and with Britain in its pomp at the time, what they did, the rest of the world followed. In 1849, it was noted that the gamekeepers at Holcombe Hall, the famous estate of the Earl of Leicester, would have their top hats knocked off when riding between drives on shooting days.

1:04:39The second Earl's younger brother, Edward, went to Locke and Co. with a request for a hat that could glance off the branches and remain on their heads, and the result was the bowler hat that we know today. If you go in today to have a hat made, you will be measured by a conformateur, a contraption adopted by Locke in 1852 and still used today. The small paper pattern it creates of the circumference of your head will be used to then shape the hat's rim. And the room in which they do this, you will see that it was not only Nelson that had the Lock Hall of Fame. Notable customers include Oscar Wilde, Winston Churchill who wore a silk plush top hat on his wedding day, Charlie Chaplin, Jackie Kennedy and Douglas Fairbanks Jr.

1:05:20Hats and indeed the shop have featured in Bond films and Kingsman. Walking in there is like stepping through a time walk, transporting you into what Britain should be about. Tradition, ceremony, craftsmanship, and a focus on the important things in life, which in this case is the simple hat. Visit Locke & Co Hatters in store or online. If you're going to Royal Ascot, it's worth getting your hat properly fitted. As much as we like it in here.

1:05:47Mike Tindall:As much as we like the pageantry, there is still the idea and the science behind the sport. The earthiness. You know, get to the real root. Yeah, I like what you've done there. Yeah. So we're going to meet someone rather special, the clerk of the course, who has allowed us access to the hallowed grounds. Yes, the final furlong. Yeah. As they say. Let's go stand on it. Exactly. Hallowed ground, we might argue. We are on the course of Ascot. and in the distance you can see the golden gates through which the procession of the royal family each day happens but today uh we're here with someone rather special this is chris dickles and uh thank you so you are the clerk of the course that's correct i am that's correct yes clerk of the course and head of racing so uh can we break down exactly what that means because behind us we have what looks like a sort of an engine of your trade or your craft um could you explain to us what would do what happens on the course and how you administer the perfect racing course for ask it sure well um i've come from course i'm responsible for one of my responsibilities is for preparing the course alongside the grounds team um for racing and ensuring that it is um in the best possible condition for racing for the five days and that it's um even and consistent and we're all set up to uh to host the meeting so i mean one of those one of those operations is is irrigating and behind us you can see that's an irrigation machine just behind us we're just about to put some uh put some water down um to make sure there's enough moisture in the soil um to give some give um for you know for rating on Friday what is it that you're aiming for like every year what is the perfect ground what how how much detail does it go into do you have your perfect year then just some years you go oh we've just we may have put too much water on we've left it a bit too dry and I'm sure the owners and trainers probably tell you that you get it wrong all the time, depending on which horse they're running.

1:07:44Mike Tindall:Well, that can be the case, Mike. Yeah, I mean, ideally, flat racing should be run, as stipulated by the BHA and by many, many, most people's opinions on good to firm ground, which is a surface when a flat-raised horse can really stretch out and gallop at its full potential. So it's firm enough for it to be able to do that, but also has enough give for a horse to be able to let himself down and gallop really comfortably on it. So good to firm is the description. Now, going ranges, the going description ranges sort of from hard at the very firmest, and you never want to race on hard. Firm ground is about as firm as you ever want to get, and then it goes right down to heavy as being the softest.

1:08:22Mike Tindall:But for flat racing, we aim for good to firm. And how hard is it to plan that out? Because obviously no weatherman, weatherlady can ever get it right. So do you know more than they do? Well, no, that is quite tricky. We're constantly watching the forecast for months out, really, and just trying to maintain that if we can get the grass and the surface in perfect condition to be able to take both rainfall and irrigation, there's a good depth of sward, the soil's in the condition where it can drain easily, then we can sort of tinker with it around the edges. So if the forecast is for, say, 10 or 15 millimetres of rain that week, then we would obviously slacken off a bit with the irrigation.

1:09:06Mike Tindall:But you need to be constantly monitoring. We use a number of instruments to constantly monitor how much moisture is in there and how the sort of resistance is. I mean, this is the old traditional method that wouldn't go sick that we use to sort of feel the sort of resistance within the soil. It's that pure instinct. You push down and your experience shows you. Yes, and you get a feel for it, I suppose, over the many years. and then different soil types and different tracks will feel different. However, there is also a turf tracks going instrument that we also use that gives you a digital readout that measures sort of shear and resistance to penetration, and that comes with a digital.

1:09:45Mike Tindall:So there's a number of instruments we use as well as our own kind of, as well as our own sort of pride and prestige. This one, I quite like this type. We take, basically it is an old walking stick. that you take the end off you sharpen to a little bit of a little bit of a pointy and get it in the ground easily and then because this is a very sandy surface here at Ascot every time you poke it in you know and I'm you know walk the course daily um uh during a race meeting twice a day it does eventually wear out and and you know the stick's shortened because um because of the abrasive nature of the soil yeah but uh yeah the carves have everyone has a has a preferred stick I suppose and I quite like these ones it's great just talk facts and figures in terms of the timeline of planning to get Aska into the state it needs to be in how far back are we talking and actually how long does it take for for example to make sure the entire course is properly watered and and just just a kind of an idea of the scale of the job at hand I mean so every year we try and do a renovation in late summer which is which is I suppose effectively a key part of our preparation and that is basically to get the thatch out and to get new grasses in there because ryegrass performs at its best in its kind of first 12 months.

1:11:02Mike Tindall:So ideally we want to do that in about August. So that helps us remove the thatch which keeps it free draining. We get some new seed in there and if the conditions are right we'll do that in August. After that it'll be the spring the following year where we make sure you know that it's well fed, that the grass is coming, it's free of disease and then we start using machines to just make sure it's draining properly so there'll be things like vertidrainers aeration machines really the tools like vertidrainers that poke holes in the ground lift it a bit to ease compaction and then that helps the roots go down the the the the sward to thicken and that sort of thing so I suppose really other than the the previous end of summer it'll be the spring and when you start to get growing conditions and then you as you get closer to the royal meeting itself you start tinkering with it with regard to irrigation and feed and you know those the little sort of magic sort of products that the head groundsman will use just to get it in its perfect condition for the big week.

1:12:01Mike Tindall:Can we talk grass length? What is the perfect grass length? So we like to have it at around 75 millimeters, about three inches. Is there a reason for that? Yeah, because then it kind of stands up and doesn't sort of lay over and what you want is the grass to be sort of be springy if it starts to lay over then then it then you kind of might get some sort of dead material underneath it it doesn't take the rain as well it doesn't sort of it doesn't take the irrigation as well so about about three inches or 75 millimeters is about our our perfect length it can depend on the on the on the the type of grass you're growing as well but we tend to for flat racing summer flat racing 75 millimeters yeah am I really saying that sheep used to be use to keep their length the certain many years ago i think they were i mean obviously you know the one that we didn't have the tool the tools that we do now um they did used to use sheep but yeah i mean they were very natural we're very natural almost obviously yeah but uh you know gosh i wouldn't be putting sheep on this now wouldn't that be terrific and i'd love it if i'd love to see a trailer's face if he rocked up one time there's just sheep

1:13:16yeah we know what them escaping onto the track do you find that there is a kind of a politics to play when in your role in terms of communications with trainers and and outside

1:13:27Mike Tindall:um influences well i i mean different horses act on different going uh they always say the best horses act on any going of course but um it is true some horses will prefer a faster surface and some horses will prefer a softer surface or act, say act better or, you know, be able to perform better. And therefore, I like you to be more competitive on their preferred surface. However, our director is to aim for good defoam if we possibly can. Clearly, that's what we want to do. And if the conditions are ideal, i.e. you've got a long sort of dry period where you can produce that kind of ground, that's what we would aim to do.

1:14:02Mike Tindall:and we have that at least we have that kind of uh jurisdiction and and the bha is sort of preferred going to to fall back on to say that we're aiming for the for the for the going that we're supposed to be producing because you will get people that would prefer you to put on more water or or less would you say you're on track now you said there's six million in april so it's been quite dry and it's a very dry very very dry uh really mike i mean we are racing friday we'll be able to produce be able to produce that ground for for then it'll depend on how quick and how dry it gets in the in the in the in the preceding time yeah you've been clerk here since 2005 what are the situations you've seen where it's been really good really bad and the kind of the way you've managed to mitigate problems that have arisen over the years gosh i think well the first year was particularly challenging obviously we reopened after being closed for for a year in 2005 the um the royal meeting went to york and was hosted there and then so obviously we'd been shut and the track was rebuilt then so 2006 with a new grandstand and a new track track was particularly challenging a lot going on and we had had a race meeting on it beforehand about about three weeks before we raced at the end of may and a few horses had galloped on it but obviously you you know that that was pretty intense um a distant memory now even after all that time of all that prep because is it just is it mainly because a horse hasn't got on it you just don't know how they're going to feel and and you just it's an unknown for you whereas if you're rebuilding you've sort of got you've got knowledge bank and everything else whereas this time you're going in completely blind well that's it and because you're racing for five days consecutively you know the preparation has got to be spot on for that first day in order to be able to maintain it because you don't have all day to prepare it for the next day if you see what I mean so you've got it you can just only tinker with it each night you know for example if it's a really hot dry week we will water every night but if you've got it if the ground is almost too quick beforehand then you then you're never going to be able to catch up so there's always got an element of um of inexperience when you're using something for the first time and effectively that's what we were doing um with a with a you know world-class meeting for five days so I think that was that that was quite challenging as you get as a team and I get more experience with it you know things have got a little easier I mean I think that one of the hardest years was funnily enough uh 2021 I think it was a COVID year when we had a huge amount of rain on the Friday and although we only had a limited um crowd here because we'd we'd we'd got a test event um it absolutely poured with rain all Friday morning um and we ended up having to I think Thursday night Friday morning we ended up and have an inspection and uh that that that was quite challenging we did manage to race we moved a lot of rail the ground steam were tremendous moved a lot of rail we raced but yeah there was a concern then as to whether or not the track was going to be safe enough to race so that was that was a nervous one now i understand that queen elizabeth was uh keen on racing the course you know before just before everything kicked off did she tend to give any opinion on the going at all does she tend to kind of make her feelings known absolutely i mean she would very often um after after the royal procession would arrive in the parade ring and if i was fortunate enough to be um presented to her she would mention the going then because as as a procession comes in you can now having not been in it but i think you can obviously feel if it's quite firm you know through the land house through the wheels of the land house and if you're mad on that yeah yeah you can kind of feel what the condition of the track is like and she would say what it feels she would make a comment um about about how the ground felt quite often actually um and tell you've done a wonderful job it's nice and you know if it's somebody runner she had absolutely and might be worth just making a nod towards your team the people who are well with you know how many grounds people do you have who are kind of you know loyal experts at you know treating this course with great respect and reverence for his history and and for the people who are coming to enjoy the occasion well the grounds team you know is is almost 20 uh in total half of which are on the are looking after mainly the lawns um the plants the flowers the shrubs the trees etc etc and then the other half are dedicated looking after the track and i mean they do a fantastic job to be honest because uh you know it's year round um all weathers uh and they take great pride in what they do and yeah we're very lucky to have them so um yeah yeah big shout out to them marvelous well thank you very very much for allowing us onto the course um special place special job um yes i might just sprint last uh half furlong it won't quite be the same time as uh as uh one of the sprinters but it's elegant yeah definitely i might not make it actually half fell or sort of still away actually to be fair but yeah, super.

1:19:01Thank you. You're welcome. Mike, do you know what one thing I regret enormously after this conversation is that I'm coming to ask it this year as well. I fear I may not see you, except I wonder whether if I stick around for the sing along, then perhaps there's going to be

1:19:19Mike Tindall:something - You'll see me on the bandstand. There's something raucous might happen. Yeah. You never know. Swinging in from a balcony. Yes, exactly. So with that in mind - We'll look forward to it. And hopefully we'll have a day like this as well. Yeah, that would be nice. It's rather beautiful here. And it's actually really lovely to see the course in this elevation. It's an exciting place to be. And it's been most exciting. All the way down to Swindley Bottom from here. Swindley Bottom. And I can see the shard. And what could be better? You keep throwing it back to seeing. Enjoy the greenery.

1:19:50Mike Tindall:Stop looking back for the big metal building. That's where I live. Anyway, it was lovely to have this cant around the course with you. very good thank you so I stole that from Alex Payne by the way the going was good yes the bit was between our teeth and there was and there was not a stumble

1:20:13I remain Tom Chamberlain and this has been The Luxury Dispatch recorded here at Ascot Racecourse my thanks to Mike Tindall for joining us and for sharing his perspective one of the most distinctive events in the British calendar if you've enjoyed today's episode please do like subscribe and leave a comment we read every one tell us your own asco traditions the occasions you return to year after year or the worlds of luxury you would like us to explore next thanks again to today's partner longine thank you for listening and happy dressing and thank you to ap rickoy we've jockeyed for position yeah in our conversation we we got out the blocks quick

1:20:53Mike Tindall:Oh, at the stalls first. Yes. And I'm going to feed you sugar cubes after this.