How Legacy Brands Win on Social Media with Ryan Roth, Director of Brand Growth at Peter Thomas Roth | Ep. 424

0:00Not being judgy, but do you spend more time organizing your tasks or chasing status updates than you do actual work? Look into Wrike. It's a smart work management platform that automates everyone's mess. Go to W-R-I-K-E dot com slash T-M-M to check it out. Welcome back to another episode of the Marketing Millennials Podcast. Today, I'm joined by Ryan Roth, the manager of influencer and brand partnerships at Peter Thomas Roth, the skincare brand behind some of the biggest viral beauty moments. We're diving into how to capitalize on viral moments, how to work with influencers the right way, why a great PR box can make or break your campaign, and so much more on building a brand that gets people talking.

0:53So let's get into it. Welcome to the Marketing Millennials, the no BS marketing podcast. I'm Daniel Murray and join me for unfiltered conversations with the brains behind marketing's coolest companies. The one request I tell our guests, stories or it didn't happen. Get ready to turn the f*** up. What is up, Brian? Welcome to the podcast. Thank you for having me, Daniel. I'm excited to be here. I want you to go just a quick background, what Peter Thomas Roth is, so people understand what we're talking about, and then we can jump into social media. So Peter Thomas Roth is my dad's name, but also a brand that he started a little over 30 years ago in clinical skincare.

1:46So his thought process behind it was the space was really missing, really thoughtful ingredient for skincare. That's something that he really cared about at the time. It was very, you know, fluffy, super rich, overnight magic cream, like was every product in the market. And he was like, well, what's in this? What's this doing for me? How is it going to actually impact my skin? Because he had really, really bad skin. And so he's going to the dermatologist and there wasn't quite a hybrid between dermatologists solution and luxury skincare. So he started a brand. All the ingredients are kind of front facing.

2:25It's about delivering the best innovation possible to the market. And he bought a couple years into it, a research and development and manufacturing facility. So he makes, which is kind of rare for a business of our size or any business in the beauty business to make all of our own formulas, develop them ourselves, and then manufacture almost all of them. So that was really where we stood out because we were able to deliver formulas much faster market than anywhere else. And we continue to strive in kind of pushing forward in the clinical skincare space and delivering like some of the best products we can with the most innovative ingredients.

3:09And then where I come in as a couple of years ago, I graduated college. I was always really passionate about this business and excited to make my footprint. So as a brand that existed before the word influencer did, there was no real full influencer program. So I worked with our EVP here and really built out a much more robust influencer program. And I work on that and whatever's going on that week here at the business. So before we go into more of the social, I want to go into your best influencer, which I saw as your grandma. She's the best influencer. So that's cool because you I kind of found your videos because I saw your grandma and you just pop off.

4:02So it's cool to see that. And she uses all Peter Tomerthorst stuff, too, which is cool. Of course, she literally swims in it. my grandma is an absolute legend and an icon. And she's actually, my dad's done campaigns with her for like mini campaigns on QVC, which is one of our retailers. And I was like, you know, I kind of want to do something. You know what? I'm going to rephrase that. It wasn't quite that thought out, but we were shopping. We were so bored during Black Friday, right before Thanksgiving, I guess the Wednesday before Thanksgiving. we're visiting her for you know the holiday where she lives in miami and my dad got like a 250 credit to socks in the mail he was like we have nothing to do we should just go get you know your grandma a gift so we went and she was being so funny that i started filming it and that night i was just sitting there like i put it together and then it blew up it got like 10 million views i woke her up the next day i was like grandma like you're famous and she was like i love it like let's keep going.

5:07And she's always been the most absurd human being of all time. So it's like, this is great to capture. And then it's also what I wish was more thought out, but that was very serendipitous. But it just felt like a really good way to tell the brand story because this is a brand that existed before social media. And now people really just want to understand the backstory, the family, the people behind the brand more than they want to trust that before they trust the brand itself. So it's been fun over the last few months getting to work with my 101 year old grandma on some, some fun things and some fun activations.

5:46So I want to go into how you think about influencer at Peter Thomas Ross. I know the brand has been around a long time. I know you've had influencer type moments, the OG influencer type moments, like Dr. Oz, like putting you on the show and saying it's one of his favorite products, but how are you thinking about the more modern approach to influencer marketing? Well, we were really propelled into the influencer marketing space in August of 2021, when this woman in the middle of Missouri posted a video named Trini, and she was using the same product that Dr. Oz really liked. She put it on. I, at the time was visiting My family were Hungarian, so it was in Hungary.

6:34So when I woke up, the video had like half a million views, which is, you know, 3 in the morning, 2.30 in the morning on the East Coast. By the time my dad woke up, let's say at 8, every single retailer that carried this product was completely sold out. It was the most transformational video that really set the bar a little bit too high for influencer marketing. for the expectation for me, jokes aside. But yeah, nothing will really do that again because that product became, and it kind of trickled into she made it viral, then a bunch of other influencers just kept making it go viral. And it's now for the fourth year in a row, the number one eye product in America that was like nearly on the discontinued list.

7:24so that really shifted our perspective on influencer marketing and really put all eyes on influencer is really the salespeople behind products now it's not so much it's not only the people in the stores the way it was before where you you know go to your beauty advisor at sephora and ask them for some advice of course that's definitely still the case but now people are scrolling on tiktok to see you know how their products work before they commit to them in store so that was kind of the first big tentpole moment and what i did i kind of came on around then was like all right let's grab all of the um all of the more mature skin ladies that this product really works on and just keep seeding it to people seeding it as wide as possible and for us having not had a really robust influencer budget at the time seeding is like the fastest the cheapest way to really get your voice heard in the, in the beauty space, at least.

8:25So it's easy. Everyone has skin. Um, there's no sizes, shade ranges. It's, it's so straightforward and easy to work with. So that's what I started doing. And then we've from there built all sorts of campaigns from micro influencer campaigns to big, huge celebrity campaigns. And I've been lucky enough to get to work on all of them and and i love it it's but it's the takeaway is it's always the unexpected person that can really skyrocket in the influencer space and it is a pretty crazy video i watched the video and it actually works really well that i product so it actually is not one of those trick influencer videos where they're trying to sell it actually she woke up she looked like she had really big bags and then they went away in five minutes which just kind of crazy to see it's great and it was at that time when you couldn't fast forward on tiktok so i feel like we used to get so baited now you can just like press down and hold it and goes at 2x speed or you can just like toggle through the bottom so everyone was just so like glued to the screen for the full i think it's like three and a half minutes about the video and they're just absolutely glued to it.

9:42So, um, that, I think the timing just worked and the people at Tik TOK had reached out and the term Tik TOK made me buy it, like was not a thing. And this was kind of in the, in the first couple of products that they were like, okay, let's coin a term called Tik TOK made me buy it. And the Peter Thomas Roth eye cream is definitely one of them. So that was really cool. Yeah. I mean, one thing I also want to go into is I know that happened, but when did you decide to also make it on TikTok shop, um, the products? That was a, an initiative that I'd kicked off and that was really healthy for this product because it wasn't working on like the traditional influencer, traditional beauty influencer.

10:28It's really a specific concern that it was addressing and it was helping us find those people a lot better to, to share that message. But I started seeing a few brands when TikTok shop was really in beta, just like blowing up on like, and it was so weird and so random. And there'd be like, like a video of a bald guy, like just like shaking a product. And it had like 5 million views and was like just generating so many sales of like a body bomb or something so random. And I'm like, what is this? I don't, I don't know what this is yet, but we need to get behind it. We need to get involved. So it took at the time seven months to code the integration.

11:11Every single day I came into work. I was like, where, where are we at? Where are we at? It took forever because the platform was just, it was growing way faster than it could afford to. And we, in record timing, They told us did the fastest integration in seven months with the systems that we have, which is crazy to me. And then by day, I think it was day like eight or nine. I can't remember. We did like$100 ,000 in one day. And I was like, whoa, like we just kicked this off. Like this was like not in any budget. This was just like kind of my passion project. I was like, let's see where this goes.

11:51And it really took off. Like it took off so quickly. And it's now a full part of our business. And it's a great way to not only sell product, but build awareness for a brand and incentivize and get to work with so many more people who are on a commission based. So I want to go into how you think about social media, because obviously you have omni channels, you're in Sephora, you're in Ulta, but you're also on TikTok shop, you have e-commerce website. So how do you think about approaching social media daily? It's gone so big at this point that there's just like so many facets of it to answer that question.

12:36I think social media is really where you can get your message across. And you have to develop assets that are really good and really educational for your own socials so that when people come there, they can be informed on the product. but the fastest way to really get like for things, a spark to catch fire is through influencers and it's through affiliates and it's through however you're getting that message across to like hundreds of people with hundreds of thousands of followers. Like it's the fastest way to just really, really grow. So to me, social media itself is kind of like an education portal.

13:17Of course there's people that are following along, but it's really a discovery tool. And then your influencers are like what can really propel you and what can help you see a product just completely blow up. So I think that's kind of better bottom of the funnel marketing than anything else. How do you think about the influencers that you're seeding? So when you decided to do this influencer program, what was the thought process about what type of influence i need to reach out to what was that target influence to look like and then how has it evolved into like what it is today yeah i'm a little bit of a packaging snob so i was like i love a good pr moment and i think there's nothing cooler than a thoughtful creative pr mailer so this was january 22 22 or 23, I can't even remember at this point.

14:18A couple of years ago, January, I remember I was like, let's kick off like a really different, interesting PR, like not just a regular box with the postcard, like let's do something a little bit bigger. And it was, it was actually for this product right behind me. And like you open the top and like the size of this box like fell down and the product was sitting in a pedestal with like a mirror on the base. And it was super cool and different. And I was like, this is the direction I want to go. And now, um, influencer boxes are full part of our marketing 360 campaigns is building out really cool and interesting boxes and they've gotten a lot better.

14:56But I remember, I think that box went out to like 250 people and I was working on that list on my own. And it was genuinely just people that either I knew I was friends with. I was and still am friends with a lot of influencers. And then people that I noticed liked the brand and it was a great introduction to the brand because I feel like it feels so special when instead of just getting a product in a box, like getting a product in a box that tells a story that's interesting, that's fun. And we've done so many cooler, more fun boxes since the inception of that program. So there's no real, there's no real method to the madness with who we pick.

15:39Now there's, um, a full team. Um, I work with an amazing team that helps like, you know, find the coolest, most interesting people that are coming up in social media. And our program is like 10 X since, you know, the 200 boxes, a, a launch that I was sending out, But there's no real method to the process. It's just really finding interesting people. We can't, I'd love to work with everyone, but we can't work with everyone and have to be thoughtful with the paid programming budgets that I do have. So it's a fun way to touch people and that can't come to events that we can't work with that are just fun and interesting and want to learn more about the brand.

16:24Yeah. I'm also interested how you said that the eye cream was about to be discontinued. And I know your Peter Thomas Roth has had different types of viral moments. I remember when me and my wife went on our honeymoon, she was wearing Peter Thomas Roth like eye patches on the plane. And that had its moment in time. And now the eye cream is having its moment in time. and you've had moments in time for since like the inception so how are you staying like evolving over time because it's you've been around for a long time but keep going viral keep having viral moments keep having cool products that that on the docket i mean it says a lot about our equity in the in the brand name and in the category but what i think is lucky and not to to me, well, there's been a bunch of huge viral moments, like dating as far back as Bill Clinton using the sunscreen.

17:26And it was like all over people magazine while he was president, which was a very long time ago. So that was really kind of like the first viral moment before we really knew that word. But I think what's nice about the, the eye cream is that it's like a franchise. there's a primer, there's a face tightener, there's a lip product, there's a blush and bronze stick. So that there was a little bit of an existing franchise in the FirmX family, which is what that eye product is. And then it kind of grew out and we expanded it when it went viral. And that's helped kind of, instead of just having one viral product where like one comes up, one comes a little bit lower, the other one comes back.

18:11And it's been a really nice kind of flow of things over the last couple of years that this franchise has been blowing up. I want to go into like, obviously the beauty industry is one of the, one of the most competitive and it's actually one of the best to be in because like shipping costs are not as high as like if you're shipping a soda brand or something like that. So like the, I don't even, our shipping costs are crazy. And I don't know how brands like Poppy are sending so much, like how can you afford to send those 10 pounds of soda around so quickly. Yeah, it's crazy how they do it. But I wanted to know, like, what are some things that you're thinking about to stand out on social that are different than what these, because obviously there's tons of brands that you're competing against.

19:01Yeah, totally. I think where we got lucky from the start too is we have a really prolific franchise of eye patches. We have right behind me six different under eye patches. I think there's actually seven. It's just not here. And skincare was not visual. Like there was a point in influencer marketing where, you know, people know there was no videos. People would just post still images on Instagram and there was no carousels. They just hold up a skincare product. And that just to me, isn't going to sell a product. and no one really knows what moisturizer you're wearing or what serum you're wearing unless you talk about it, which is the best part about TikTok.

19:45But from the inception of it, the eye patches are visual and they were fun and people kind of liked posting about it. So that was really great luck from the, from the get go in that category of just like being a visual product and being social friendly. So that was a fun way to kind of dip our toe in and stand out. But we really, a lot of our products deliver results. I mean, they all deliver results, but some of them even in a matter of minutes, in a matter of a few weeks. And that's what I think really stands out about our brand and what sells a product. It's not just like a nice experience with the Crayon.

20:28It's going to deliver results. And that's, I think, the key to success here. So people really trust Peter Thomas Roth and have continued to trust Peter Thomas Roth to deliver that. But there's also a really nice generational piece that this brand has that I'm really fortunate to get to work here with. I mean, I get to work really closely with my dad, which is great. But it's really the brand that, you know, people saw their moms using and their moms trusted it when there weren't as many competitive brands out there. So they know to jump in and know that they can trust it to themselves. Yeah. And I mean, I saw you did podcast type videos with your dad.

21:10And one of the things he said is like he's an ultimate perfectionist. And that's why he built his own factories and stuff like that because he wanted to perfect the product. And I think that's also what stands out out of other beauty care brands because they're not spending that much time to make sure the product works in every single environment, environment, every single skin, every single, um, type of whatever the result thing is, you would, you said at the beginning, um, is really what he cares about. Yeah. It's, I mean, it's amazing that he's such a perfectionist. It's, it's annoying in my personal life because he really is a perfectionist, whether it's what furniture he's going to pick out, he'll return like five things to, you know, 10 times, but he really is a perfectionist when it comes to these products and we're privately owned and vertically integrated.

22:10So it gives us so much, um, opportunity that if there's an ingredient that's just a little bit more expensive, but works a little bit better, we can really, um, we have a lot more wiggle room to be able to incorporate that. Whereas if there's a big conglomerate, they're like shaving pennies and, you know, dimes off of every formula they possibly can. Um, and we don't have to do that because we're privately owned. So it's really, it gives us a lot of a leg up. If your boss has ever said who approved this copy because they signed off on it a month ago, you might need some ops help. If your campaigns get delayed because no one can find the brief, the assets, or the approvals, you definitely do.

22:56Wrike kills the disconnects. It's a smart work management platform that automates the chaos for the whole team in one place with visual collaboration, resource planning, and the insights to make everything better and quicker every time. Go to ryke.com slash TMM to see how teams at Lyft, Ogilvy, NVIDIA use it. That's W-R-I-K-E dot com slash TMM. could you tell me how you so you get to see a lot of social insights from social media of what people are doing what trends are happening how do you work with the say product team or the rest of the marketing team or your dad to take those insights and tell them what's happening in in that world yeah i mean we definitely we have group chats different variations of group chats going off all at all hours of the day, but there is a full team that's dedicated to just researching the products that are launching as well as the social trends.

24:01And they're making reports regularly, what's coming out, what's launching at Sephora, what we're seeing leave Sephora and how trends are shifting. But like I said, visual results are always, always do super well. So we've always been really excited to dedicate our innovation to that and I can't really speak to it but the products that are coming out in May 1 and June 1 are really really exciting really social driven products so I'm very excited to get to do get to deliver that so I mean the get ready with me's have always been like a staple in the TikTok world. Where do you think that is going?

24:51Because in COVID, you can follow one person and you had this in-depth relationship with that person you're following. But now it's gone into more like making sure every video pops off because there's such a shorter attention span with YouTube Shorts and Instagram Reels and all these platforms. So how do you think about the evolution of influencer in, in the beauty space? I mean, number one, get ready with me is where the best thing to ever happened to the beauty industry, because influencing was for fashion. And then because influencing was about pictures. And then this whole trend of like, watch every single step of the 15 different products that I use on my face while I tell you about my day popped off.

25:41And that was just so huge for beauty. So I don't think it's going anywhere, not for that reason, but I don't think it's going anywhere because there is just such an urge to feel really connected to an influencer. And the more authentic you come across, the better you do. And so that's why like this whole Alex Earl, like get ready with me trend too, is that's her opportunity to just like, it feels like you're on FaceTime with her. and you're like under, she's gorgeous. So you see what she's doing to shape her face and her routine. So I don't think it's going anywhere. However, it's not as, I noticed it's not as prolific as it was before, but I think that if I could predict the trends and know it was coming forward, I genuinely wish I could.

26:34Yeah. I mean, you do it in your own videos too, which you naturally integrate Peter Thomas Roth, even though like it doesn't seem like you're selling it. You just say, I went out partying one night and I, I need this eye cream or I need this moisturizer or I need this, um, because, or I'm going out, I need to do a quick tune up. So, um, I think the way you do it is pretty natural to like, if people wanted to follow the a good way to do it um it's pretty natural way to do product placement yeah that's what i'm never i mean if something's brand new and coming out i'll like i definitely excited to make a video and like talk about it in a super salesy lens um but it doesn't always work like people just kind of want to see it like woven into a routine that's why i i dabble with this too with some influencer campaigns.

27:33I'm like, yeah, I need a dedicated video. However, I also would really like to see in another integrated video, just like incorporating, just using the product because we've discussed, I know you like it. I know you made a video, but I want to like have a little bit of a through line in a 360 campaign here that makes it really authentic because authenticity is what sells. um what what's more successful for you all i know you've done big celebrity campaigns but you also done like i mean if you look at your feet it's all normal people and yeah and your grandma doing stuff um what has been performing more is it the micro influencer space or the big celebrity endorsements i mean it really depends how you measure it i love working on big celebrity campaigns, I think it's so fun.

28:26It's stressful, it's exciting, it's different, and you just get such a fun ripple through press, because traditional press isn't totally dead at all. And it's just like, it feels a little bit more permanent in some ways than smaller micro influencer, mid-tier influencer traditional campaigns. But both are effective in different ways. And I think the reality of him, the reason they build campaigns with so many different people is because it's a gamble. Like, you know, that some, someone's going to sell a lot better than someone else, but you, you don't know that before you start. So that's why you kind of have to diversify with a big group of people that you're going to be working with.

29:12And a celebrity campaign is just always a more stressful, bigger bet because it's one person and you're relying on your gut to tell you how commercial that campaign is going to be and how it's going to ripple. And we've been lucky and thoughtful with the last few celebrity campaigns that we've done that they've been really successful, but it, it does really tie into someone's brain when you work on something like that. Like there is, we worked with Lindsay Lohan and it's, you know, two years ago now almost. And I still get, Oh yeah, that, Oh, I remember that you did that thing with Lindsay low hand.

29:47I'm like, it really just connects in someone's brain. Whereas maybe there's a micro influencer that we worked with two years ago and no, you know, which was much more successful and in a lower funnel capacity, but it doesn't quite resonate the same way that it, it does two years later when you work with a bigger celebrity. Yeah, that makes sense. I mean, one's mainstream reach, uh, embedded into culture. One is more get your name in these small micro communities um they might not remember except maybe the trinity moment where we're ultra ultra viral but yeah you won't remember those other ones um that makes total sense i want to ask you a couple rapid fire questions and whatever first thing comes into mind um you could say but um what is the most underrated social media platform for beauty brands?

30:45I think it's going to be YouTube. If you could only keep one, TikTok or Instagram? TikTok. A beauty brand besides Peter Thomas Roth that's killing it on social? That's a loaded question. I think that I've been loving, I don't know how social facing it is because it's really 360, but I've been loving the Kelly Rutherford Coda Lee campaign. that's running right now. Oh, and sorry, Patrick Ta is doing a really good job on social. What is one influencer you would love to work with? I, I'd love to work with Miley Cyrus. Well, that's a good one. What's a social media trend that needs to die? Like these dances.

31:36What is your favorite Peter Thomas Roth product? The water trench cream. And lastly, I like to ask everybody in the podcast this, but what's a marketing hill you would die on? I mean, definitely authenticity sells no matter what. And I feel like a lot of people disagree with me, but I think no publicity is bad publicity. It's a little hard when you're in the beauty industry and, you know, someone doesn't like a product, but I still think that no publicity is bad publicity. No, I think that's a good one. Very Kim Kardashian core. Oh, sorry. That's the influencer. I'd really want to work with Kim Kardashian, but I, she has got a skincare line of her own.

32:19So maybe in a future life. Yeah. And then, um, where can people find what you're doing and all that good stuff? I can be found on very recently reels and Instagram at Ryan Thomas Roth and the same handle on Tik TOK. And then you'll see more of what the brand's doing, both on Instagram, and TikTok at Peter Thomas Roth official. Well, thank you so much for joining and thanks for the conversation. I really appreciate it. Thanks for a great combo, Daniel. Thanks so much for listening. Keep tuning in to hear more great insights from the coolest marketers from around the world. If you haven't already, make sure to subscribe and follow the Marketing Millennials podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.