How to Make a Heritage Brand Stay Relevant with Blair Lancer, CMO of Lancer Skincare | Ep. 399

0:00Today's episode is brought to you by customer.io. You have customer data, but turning it into personalized marketing at scale? That's the hard part. Customer.io connects the dots. Feed it your data, start sending messages that actually feel personal. Learn more at customer.io slash TMM. Welcome to the Marketing Millennials, the no BS marketing podcast. I'm Daniel Murray and join me for unfiltered conversations with the brains behind marketing's coolest companies. The one request I tell our guests, stories or it didn't happen. Get ready to turn the f*** up. welcome back to another episode of the market millennials podcast i have blair lancer on the podcast cmo of lancer skincare super excited to chat to her um lancer skincare is one of the coolest skincare companies out there my wife who's a skincare girl he was like i'm so excited to hear from lancer skincare because she she's a skincare girl and um so super excited to chat and I just want you to give a little background, what is Lancer Skin Care and how you became the CMO of Lancer Skin Care.

1:21Sure. Well, thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here. So, yeah, Dr. Lancer, who is my father, has always had these products in his office, but they were only available to his patients. So that started in about the 1980s, about 1985. And we decided to take this brand's commercial about 2011-ish, give or take. And it's been really exciting. So my background actually was always in fashion, which people are really surprised to hear. But I moved to New York. I went to NYU for fashion. All my internships, I was so excited to be there. Everything was fashion related. and then I got a job at Saks in their buying office right after undergrad and I was so excited about the cosmetics buyers and everything they were doing what they were looking for what was doing well what wasn't it was actually pretty surprising to me that I was so interested in this I had always wanted to be in fashion but I had this like innate desire to carry on my father's legacy I just didn't know at the time that there was really a way to kind of like merge those worlds.

2:32And this was that first step into that. So yeah, it was about 2016, where post-grad, post all the fashion stuff, and at Saks, that I decided to go back to the family business and start with our team what was called the enhancement category. So for a little bit of background, at that time, there really was a white space within the skincare makeup arena. So there weren't really skincare brands dabbling in makeup and vice versa. And I just saw it as such an opportunity. So that was the first thing we worked on. The Danny Glowing Skin Perfector, which is actually still one of our best sellers today.

3:13It's really exciting. Named after my mom, came about at that time. And truly, I really learned the business from the ground up. So it was social media and then communications. I was dabbling in collaborations at the time, which looked so different. I was sending mailers to, I guess, quote unquote, influencers at the time, very beginning of that. It was all like the makeup artists on YouTube and just such a different space, but kind of the beginning of that whole evolution, which was really exciting. And then I ended up going to business school. I went to Columbia from 27 to 19 because I really thought, you know, I was learning the business from the ground up, but through people who were already there.

3:58And I figured I really wanted to learn those hard skills somewhere like an MBA program or Columbia where I could just bring something new back. So had that little stint, came back in 2019, and then COVID hit in 2020. And I was very comfortable in my communications bubble. But my CEO at the time called me and said, hey, that's all fine and dandy, but we're restructuring. I need you to essentially build and run the new product development category. And to me, this was terrifying because I had never really been in this department. This was so new to me. And she said, don't worry about it. We will have somebody mentor you.

4:38We'll figure it out. And, you know, just dove in. So it ended up being really special because aside from, you know, working with my dad closely and the education ingredient piece of it, it was just so nice from a marketing perspective to be really at the forefront of our innovation. So, you know, I was helping the team come up with product ideas. I was looking through competitive landscapes and white gaps in the market. So starting from the beginning versus just picking it up at the end at the marketing piece made a world of a difference, especially when it comes to storytelling. So that was amazing.

5:15Really glad that I took that leap. And ever since then, it's just been a little bit of an evolution. You know, we had talked about, you know, for the, I think it was the 10-year anniversary that we were aiming for. We wanted to put forth some sort of rebrand. And we didn't know what that would look like, but it was time. It was the anniversary we wanted to do something new and exciting. It did not work out that way. There is no perfect world. You know, we all thought there would be just one day where, like, everything would come together. and, you know, the revamp of the website, the social media, the packaging, all that would just happen at one time.

5:52And, you know, like things generally do not, this did not pan out. And it's actually worked for the best. I would say instead of having one true like revamp moment, it's been more of this modernization and refresh over the last several years, which has been really nice because not only are we expanding our demographic, but we're really bringing in the new generation and having them grow with us. So as we evolve over time, we keep bringing new people in and they're really, you know, I would say our consumer is not shy. They like to share their feedback, which has been incredible for us. So happy to go into this at another time.

6:30And I know I'm on a long tangent, but we revamped our body line. And a lot of that was consumer feedback, which is really exciting and was taken very positively. So, yeah, that's been that and became a face of the brand around the same time, which has been really exciting. It's, you know, it's one thing to work with your family behind the scenes, but it's another to really carry the weight of being a face of the brand. Because now, whether it's social media or podcasts, I'm actually speaking directly to the consumer, which has been an incredible opportunity. So now I've merged my fashion and skincare, all these different worlds, and it's been an amazing ride.

7:07Yeah, it's pretty cool because I see on TikTok, you're giving all the advice of skincare, fashion, which is cool because it blends all your words and worlds together. And also, since you have a luxury skincare brand, I think people who come for skincare are also looking for fashion advice and styling advice. And if it was a different category, they might be not in the same. But luxury skincare pairs well with getting ready for going out, getting ready for the day. And everything always starts with a skincare routine. Totally. And, you know, we always say you want to feel beauty from the outside in, but also the inside out.

7:47So, you know, I share things like the supplements I take or, you know, the skincare I'm using as well as like where I'm going, the fashion. I think people, especially now with AI, people want to feel that intimacy. They want to get to know the real you. And I think you really have to be transparent because people can feel authenticity. So it's my TikTok, my Instagram, it's a place for me to really like share all of my passions and give people kind of a view into what my actual life is as a CMO versus just sharing kind of like a marketing overview, if that makes sense. Yeah, I have a question. So you're leading a brand that has huge clinical credibility and decades of heritage.

8:29So when you stepped into that CMO role, what were two or three of the biggest gaps between how the brand saw itself and how consumers actually perceived it online? So the biggest thing for me is we were very much perceived almost like your mother's brand. Like it almost had that negative connotation where it was, you know, people thought that's skincare that really works. So now that I'm in my 20s or 30s, I don't really need that. I can deal with the fun, pretty, like pink watermelon scented skincare. And then when it's time and my skin is mature enough, then I'll step into that. So a big thing I wanted to do with this modernization was have everybody feel like it is their time to be there.

9:12We want it to be multi-generational and bring in grandmothers, mothers, daughters, everybody, and have them grow with us. Again, not feel like it's so clinical and so science-backed, which it is. But we needed people to have that experience where it was almost approachable. We were missing that piece. Like, people didn't feel welcome. It almost seemed intimidating. So I would say that's definitely the biggest piece. I know you said you saw a lot of consumer feedback. What are the channels you're looking at to diagnose where this feedback is coming from, where you're looking to get the feedback to help enhance product, enhance marketing, enhance branding and positioning?

9:55So I would say our biggest point of difference is that we do have a board-certified dermatologist on board practicing five days a week. And that's something that's very rare. It's not something that you see often. So, you know, a lot of brands will have focus groups or kind of reach outside. For us, we're lucky because Dr. Lancer is in the office every day. So he's constantly getting feedback, whether it's about our brands in particular. For example, I can talk about the body line, but they gave very specific feedback constantly about the packaging and the sizing and the foil, all of those kinds of things.

10:30but he'll also hear things like you know I come in for Botox and then I have this lull in between appointments I need something to like hold me essentially in between those appointments so then we come back and think okay what can we do that's almost like a Botox in a jar like something that you can use at home so it's almost them sparking ideas within us of you know we can look at a competitive landscape and see what's out there what's not out there what are the gaps or we can look within people who actually love our brand, have grown with our brands, love our products that can say, this is the one piece of the Lancer skincare routine that's missing.

11:10So having that is very different. Separately, people are very vocal on Instagram, on Facebook. I would say those are probably our two biggest platforms. People have emails, people are really vocal with us, which is nice. They don't, I think people are not afraid to speak up. And I don't know if it's because we have that doctor on board or we have that family aspects where people feel like they can chime in and like there's a real person there to speak with. Yeah. I think it's really cool to have, you don't see many brands get someone who has in-person feedback day in, day out that saying my skin's breaking out.

11:47I use this, this happens, or my skin's breaking out. I might've got a rash. What should I do? Or my skin's, It's pretty cool to have someone leading the charge. I want to ask you, with a legacy brand, how did you go from making it feel clinical to aspirational and luxury? What are some steps you took to make that feeling more aspirational than just a luxury? I mean, a clinical brand that people are a little bit intimidated and scared about when they hear that. Well, that has been a big piece of this. And I keep saying it's a brand refresh, not a rebrand. I think when you fully rebrand, sometimes you lose your core, you lose your heritage, and therefore you lose the consumer.

12:32This really has been a true refresh because we have our heritage. I always say, like, even with our packaging changes, I want it to be that if you walk into a store, you're a consumer, you have no idea that we've repackaged, you can still walk in and recognize us. like we'll still have the same packaging we'll still have the same swoosh in the corner like those heritage pieces are still there but I do think it's a lot of you know we have Dr. Lancer he is the science the authority he's the white lab coat so we still have that and people know that if they buy something the benefits will be there the science is there and all of the ingredients are essentially cooked into this formula properly it's not just marketing fluff but that was my role of coming in you know showing people you have that one piece of the brand but now you also have another face of the brand who you know I'm in my 30s so I'm showing that generation of 20s 30s let's call it that like I do take my skincare very seriously the people around me take their skincare seriously like it's time to dive in and like I said you know I have this social channel whether it's TikTok or Instagram where I am sharing my life in some ways.

13:47It's very transparent. Like you're seeing, yes, I do my skincare, but I'm also just a normal girl. I love fashion. I love going to restaurants. I love traveling, whatever it may be. So people can, I think, resonate with me and feel that it just feels a little bit more approachable to have somebody like me speaking at certain times and having Dr. Lancer speak at certain times. So we kind of just know our audience. I would say the other piece of it is just transparency. I think when I started, let's call it, I went back officially in 2016, social media was all about aesthetics. Everything had to be beautiful.

14:25Everything was this like perfectly crafted photo shoot. Everything had to just be perfect all the time. And now you see, and especially with AI, like I keep saying, this will be more and more, but you know, you look at TikTok and even sometimes on Instagram, it's very much UGC focused. You have people in their bathrobes in real time, hopefully showing you what they're doing, how they use it. Sometimes people will come on and say, Hey, I tried this product. It didn't work. It broke me out. I don't know what it is. Like sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't, but I think building that authenticity is so critical that transparency really builds trust.

14:59And I think that makes the brand less cold and clinical and a bit more approachable. You're sitting on a gold mine of customer data and it's doing nothing for you. That's not a data problem. That's a tools problem. Customer.io connects your data to every channel you already use. SMS, email, push, in-app. Then it uses AI to build workflows that used to take weeks. Every message feels like it's written for that customer, not blasted at them. 8 ,000 plus brands already made the switch. Learn more at customer.io slash TMM.

15:39i i like the term that you use brand refresh to keep the the legacy the heritage part of that when you started the brand refresh where what is the where are the first places where did you start did you start with the positioning did you start with the packaging did you start with the creative Did you start with who you're targeting? Where was the first start of that brand refresh? So it's interesting. I have one answer to that, and I'm sure the team would have a different answer because it did not go how I wanted, which I think is great, honestly. That's why you have a team, right? So you can all rely on each other.

16:18But I wanted to start with packaging. I had this whole vision of what the line was going to look like. And it still is becoming this line. it's just happening slower. Like we've done one piece of it and slowly you'll start to see more and more. But like I had this whole presentation together, the colors were changing, the packaging was changing and that was the core for me. But of course everyone else on the team was like, okay, let's calm down for a second. Let's take a look. And like you said, we started with the overarching strategy. What is the positioning? Who did we want to bring in? And that's why, you know, a big piece of this for me was I wanted to make this a multi-generational brand.

17:01So I was thinking, you know, to bring in this younger generation visually, I want the packaging to resonate with them a little bit more. But yeah, we started there. We really looked at who are we talking to now? How are we talking to them? Who can we bring in? Again, like a big piece of our work now is on Facebook. And, you know, I was saying, let's skew more towards TikTok and let's like bring this up. And, you know, the team was right that TikTok isn't necessarily the right place for us. We do really well on Facebook. We do really well on Instagram. We throw a couple things up on TikTok here and there, but it's not our core.

17:39So I think it was having them keep me in reality, if that makes sense. Instead of jumping into like, this is what I want. This is how we're going to do it. Let's do it. They said one piece at a time. Let's look at this realistically. So I would say the first actual change we made was probably either the website. We did a full website refresh or social media. So we hired somebody new on our social channels and the look and feel was just very different, which truly is where we probably needed to start because that's essentially like the first point most of the time where people see you, where your consumer sees you.

18:15So you'll see, We had a mix of both UGC and reality, like I was saying, and also this, again, kind of like aesthetic, beautiful look and feel for our products, but in a way that just felt really relatable, not so stiff. So that's probably where we started. And then it's evolved to, you know, different social channels, our websites, our emails are different. Having me as a secondary face and Dr. Lancer, having the packaging evolve, whether it's the body line, now we have the gravity line, and that's a little bit different. So it's just a slower evolution. And I know you have a core product, the method, core line, and I think you were also trying to reimagine that because that's the core SKU.

19:04That's Dr. Lancer's core method of how to do skincare. So how were you thinking about that as part of the, like baking that into the SKU strategy when doing this refresh? Well, I will tell you, out of all the SKUs, and at that point, we had probably 40-something or high 30s. Polish, Cleanse, Nourish were the only three that we weren't going to change. So the Lancer Blue was staying the Lancer Blue. And that kind of goes to what I was saying about keeping things as they are and keeping your heritage. Packaging was staying the same, sizing, color, all of that. And we have that, like the cap, we call it our pillow top.

19:45The cap is very special to us. So that was absolutely never going to change. I will say people always ask us about reformulating the method since it's been so long. I will tell you that we haven't needed to. Like even now, the feedback we get on those three products is incredible. We still redo our before and afters and our clinicals for those products. And, you know, if it's not broken, don't fix it. However, without sharing too much, because it's a bit early, there is something in the works for the method down the line, which people will see and I think be very excited about. I'm excited to hear about that.

20:23But also, I think one thing too, which is pretty cool, that's part of the messaging. Because I think having a clinical face that is a dermatologist is cool. But Dr. Lancer also worked on some of the best celebrities out there. So I think that also takes the halo effect even bigger. because he wasn't just like a dermatologist that just saw everybody and then became a skincare line. He actually saw people seeked him out for dermatology, which adds, I think, another layer of credibility. There's a credibility of a doctor and then there's credibility of people, like that halo effect of all those cool celebrities that went there.

21:08How does that go into the storytelling of the brand? Totally. And I will add to that another special thing about the method is every single patient who comes into the office uses the method. So when you talk about celebrities, influencers, you know for a fact that when they came to see Dr. Lancer, those were the three products they started with. There are people who come in and want treatments, procedures, whatever it may be. He will only start them on the method. And a couple weeks later, if they still need something, they'll do it. Oftentimes, they don't need anything. So I think having that added layer of, oh, my favorite celebrity has used this exact exfoliator is really exciting.

21:49But I will say, you know, when we started, everybody was so about celebrities. It was all about A-list celebrities all the time. Like award shows were so big. Magazines were so big. And I mean, some people may disagree with me, but I don't think that's the case anymore. I think celebrity has been downplayed a little bit. and at one point it really was influencer you know everybody trusted what the influencers were doing and of course we have some in our office as well but in my opinion and again a lot of people may disagree I think that's even shifting a little bit I think there are so many influencers out there now and I think there are so many opportunities for influencers to get paid partnerships or get paid for their work and a lot of times it is authentic I will give them that but sometimes it's not.

22:37So for me as a consumer, and I would assume other people feel the same way, when I see one of my favorite influencers posting, you know, here's my favorite product, but in the corner it says paid partnership, there's something in me that immediately kind of steps back. Even if they've been using this product for years and I've seen the same, you know, face wash for three, four years on their page, I still get that uneasiness. So I do feel like at a certain point, we do use influencers and our celebrity marketing in certain ways, but we've almost shifted to UGC and real testimonials and people showing you, hey, this product works.

23:17I've been using it for a week. This is what I've noticed. I think it's just that culture has shifted a bit. It's just such a crowded market. Yeah, I think you're right about celebrities. I think celebrities are still the well-known people, but I think for some people, the actual people who are influencing their day-to-day decisions are those micro niche creators who, if you have a luxury. Because I know, for example, my wife will screenshot stories or someone said, here are my recommended three restaurants in New York to go to by an influencer. And we have to go see it. Or this person is wearing the skincare, so she will go buy that skincare even though she's never used it.

24:02And it's not from, like you said, paid partnerships, but she'll screenshot all the things, zoom in to see if they're using that product, try it out. So I think you're right about people in their own worlds that they're creating. And someone who's a celebrity to one, you might say your favorite person who's influenced you, and I might not know them. But they still have more power than if, say, Brad Pitt came in and said, I'm using this skincare. So I'm curious because I think brand loyalty is a big thing now. There are so many skincare lines, so many makeup lines. it's really hard to find loyalty.

24:42So when your wife, you know, screenshots something and buys it, does she usually repurchase or is it this influencer purchase or posted something once I'm going to purchase it now that I've tried it and moving on to the next screenshot from the next influencer? A little column A and a little column B. I think if she loves the product, she goes down the line and she'll keep using the product. But let's say if her eyeliner is not working for her, she's just going to keep trying. And I think that's a Gen Z thing too. Yeah. Gen Zs are very not loyal to brands. Yeah. And they can be loyal to brands.

25:21I mean, she works for a beauty brand. So she, not a beauty brand, but like a skincare, body wash, body deodorant brand. So she knows the loyalty side of things. But yeah, it's definitely, if it works for her, she'll use. But I've seen some products that she's been using for 10 years in her skincare line. So it's pretty interesting. It's funny because obviously I don't use any skincare aside from Lancer Skincare. But when it comes to makeup, I am the least loyal person, which is why I was asking. I mean, I do have a couple of holy grails that no matter what, they're like my true products. If I need to look good, I know they work, but there are so many new launches all the time.

26:06And they're almost like drive-by launches where brands are, I guess, launching like three, four, five different SKUs per year. And so it's hard to even keep up. And by the time I need, you know, a new concealer, let's call it, I'm so excited to try this one that got a lot of hype. And by the time I'm halfway done with that, I'm already onto the next concealer. So it's almost like people aren't able to focus or concentrate or even really give the proper time needed to these products because there's so much buzz everywhere. So it's interesting. I think the divide of vitamin versus painkiller of, I think, skincare per se, if the skincare is working and it's curing something like dry skin or acne or wrinkles, I think people are tried and true to that.

26:56But something that's, this influencer looked really good with this new eyeliner. I need to try because I want to repeat that really good. I think that's where it's a hard balance. I think skincare people are, that's why I think it's cool that you're in more of a painkiller type industry where someone's coming to you for dry skin or someone's coming to you for wrinkles or someone's coming to you for anti-aging and they're trying to solve that right. They're trying to solve it and work on that. so i i mean that's a also a question for someone you're trying to bring in the younger group like the 30s the late 20s um how how do you message to someone who isn't quite there yet with aging but the preventative side of things because i think when someone has a wrinkle they're going to try get as many wrinkle creams to stop wrinkle but someone who's not there yet how do you go about with either your messaging on TikTok or your messaging on the website to try bringing that younger crowd to buy a preventative type skincare?

28:15So I would say probably the number one thing for that is honestly just education. I think educating the consumer and saying, hey, you know, you might be too young for a retinol, but you should be using SPF 365 days per year. So we always say, if you can see outside without a flashlight, you need sunblock, meaning if it's gloomy, if it's snowy, whatever it may be. So I think explaining that to somebody like everybody, you know, I know there are mixed feelings, but should be using some sort of sunblock, let's just say. And that can happen in the teens or the twenties. So I think just explaining to people like, Hey, even if it's a chart, here's a chart, you're in your twenties.

28:59If you want something that's preventative, but you're not ready for the real stuff. Here are the things that work. Here's why they work. I think when people don't have the right education and they don't understand how to use something, when to use something, even if they are in their 30s or 40s and they do buy a retinol, but they don't know how to use it, they're probably not going to use it or they're going to use it improperly and then not buy your products again or say they had an irritation or whatever it is. So it's really about that full transparency and making sure that they really understand like what is prevention what should that look like don't expect you know immediate results don't think you know you got a wrinkle so whatever you were doing preventatively wasn't working they need to just understand and then I think they're more apt to use these products so we do have a lot of millennials listening to this podcast so what is what is your I know you use Lancer Skin, but what is the step-by-step that you use?