Is Any Brand Really Authentic in Marketing? with Christina Le, Head of Marketing at Slate | Ep. 397

0:00Today's episode is brought to you by customer.io. You have customer data, but turning it into personalized marketing at scale? That's the hard part. Customer.io connects the dots. Feed it your data, start sending messages that actually feel personal. Learn more at customer.io slash TMM. Welcome to the Marketing Millennials, the no BS marketing podcast. I'm Daniel Murray and join me for unfiltered conversations with the brains behind marketing's coolest companies. The one request I tell our guests, stories or it didn't happen. Get ready to turn the f*** up. we are back with another episode of the market millennials podcast i am here with the head of marketing of slate christina um i'm so glad we finally get to chat um this is our first time actually chatting but it's good to chat on a podcast because then the you get to hear the non-filtered thoughts come out of both of us so welcome to the podcast thank you so much for having me.

1:11I've been a big fan for a long time. Let's get into your journey first and then we'll get into the conversation. So how did you get into the marketing space? Oh my gosh. So I kind of stumbled into this. I worked in social for over a decade. I had actually went to school as a political communications major. And because I was the young person when I was working as a legislative aide for a state rep, they were like, you're young, you can handle social media. You know how to work a phone. And so that was the start of my initial bit with marketing is that I handled the state reps social media account.

1:51And then that led to me going into this leather goods company and then a fuel company. And then I ended up in tech. I went from Panadoc to then OpenPhone to then plot and now I am as late. So the trajectory of my career has primarily been a social media marketer. And I've gone into head of marketing sort of like because I became more of a generalist. I was always very interested in doing different aspects of marketing. And I think social has just played a big role in helping me become a bit more adaptable because I could just do anything i guess the social is always the person that's like here take a post create it you know how can we how can we talk to our audience it's the same same qualities across the board yeah i feel the same about marketing ops i came from marketing ops and it's just the do everything know everything department and i feel social media pretty much the same as the you know everything what the customers are saying the industry's saying um you're talking the community all the time so makes total sense um going into this you have a buzzword that you don't like that's in the industry and I want you to tell tell us what the buzzword is and tell us how people use it and what it actually means to you oh my god I hate authenticity so much because I feel like they wear it as a badge of honor and they try to position it as a way of like you know So you need to always be authentic, but it becomes a buzzword because we're never truly authentic when social in and itself is pretty performative.

3:34And I find that it's really jarring when people are like, yeah, this is so authentic. But it's like that probably went through that campaign or whatever that post is probably went through, especially from the brand side, probably went through a series of revisions and back and forth and planning. so the authenticity layer right there just holds people in this um unachievable expectation of like how we're supposed to exist online and i just think it's one of those things where people toss around as just another word like we're being authentic one i think it's bullshit two i think it's also very lazy and three i think it's kind of like a cop-out to say you know um we're trying to be edgy by being authentic because this is how we define it but authentic is very subjective It's just it's hard to define what that is online.

4:21That is a very performative state. I feel like the only way you could be authentic is write a journal. And if you write a journal on social, it's probably not going to perform because it's not meant for it's meant for you, not the audience. If you would write your journal online, you would have to rework the journal to have a hook, some meat in there that will keep grabbing attention, storytelling. And then it wouldn't be a journal anymore. It's just something to help make an audience. Yeah, because you fit everything into a framework. And then I also think, do you really want people to be authentic?

4:59Like, do we actually want that? We certainly don't consume the content that have, you know, the meandering thoughts or the half-baked ideas. We ourselves as, you know, the active scrollers, we don't like that type of content. So why are we saying we want to see people's authentic self? Because authentic can also mean trauma dumping on a daily basis. Like, you know, there's different ways that people can be authentic. I just think when we think about the platforms, there are these social norms that, you know, get into place on how we should act and behave on there that I think it would be completely disruptive if somebody was truly authentic and show every layer of themselves.

5:40And so, yeah, I just think the word authentic just feels really, I think the definition needs to be changed maybe. like i would i would probably say because i don't know so much work goes into authenticity when people say authentic but what what do you think that what does the market actually want um because we kind of said that if these authentic posts aren't if someone's really being authentic and laying it out the line and not caring about metrics or they're not caring about likes they're not caring about comments they're not caring about performance if you would have their being in your years in social and seeing that, what is like, what does the market actually want out of content online?

6:24Yeah. Um, I think what they really want is to have content that's relatable to them in that moment. I think that's what they want. And I think often that's why, you know, we see the addiction happen when these algorithm becomes very specific to knowing you as a person and showing you content that you generally like to engage with. And so that's why I think Like even authenticity, when we think of, you know, back in like, I don't know, let's say 2016, 2017, when the Instagram, oh my gosh, I'm dating myself saying the Instagram. That sounds like my parents when they go the tic-tac. But, you know, when Instagram used to reward people for their authentic or not their curated posts.

7:05And then I think because that layer of performance where people had these really highly curated life started, people started realizing like, oh, this is making me feel bad about myself because I'm not doing things in a way that will be living my life in a way that is what I'm seeing online. And I think that resistance to engaging with that type of content started taking form. And that's why the word authenticity started coming around where they're like, no, show me the uncurated side. Show me like, you know, the messiness of your life because that's what's innately human. Fast forward, now we're in a place where the algorithm really controls what you like to consume and see and everything is tailored to you.

7:44I think, again, I think the audience really controls what they want to see. So when they say authentic, it's really uniquely what they like. Because again, I could say I want to consume content that I feel is storytelling, human, something that makes me feel like you're not being performative and fake and you're not an ad. but then another person might be like i want you know i want somebody to be able to show me all the curated stuff so i don't know i think i think it's all subjective and depending on the person i totally agree i mean and and authentic means different from a creator versus a brand where yes and the definition is changing all the time like what does it mean to be authentic you're not authentic enough you're not showing the deeper side but when they start to show the deeper side than they're getting trolled on or they're getting hated on.

8:38So it's really hard to actually be fully authentic online. Yeah. Have you ever seen a post where you think to yourself, wow, you actually had that thought, you typed it out, and then you shared it. And it's like, that person might be very authentic in that moment. They're just sharing whatever thought came to mind and and i feel like sometimes the way people react to things like would dictate how that creator or that person who's sharing perform in the next post that they share you know so i don't know social media because i mean as a brand you've done this a thousand times you make a post and you you think you have to go through the checklist in your head where hey is this fit our brand guidelines our brand values am i gonna get canceled for this or not am i and you just start going down the checklist in your head before you when you even start creating and that already waters down what you were going to originally think because your brain is filtered to have these guidelines and you know your audience if you show a meme of this person or a picture of this type of person versus that type of person or this or that you you're at risk in the community for um maybe not being authentic enough or being cancelable or so you have to have a this is an always-on filter as a social person or a social company or as a brand where you can't you have you can never be truly authentic yeah and i think that's why we have these branding exercises um in every team that i go through uh every company that i've been with, I think it is important to know in the beginning, and this is from just, you know, the brand marketing side of the house.

10:27When I think about companies and how they appear on social, it's like, let's define what authenticity means to us. Meaning, do we know ourselves and our values and the mission that we're trying to drive? And how does that show up in our content? And I think oftentimes people get shiny object syndrome when it comes online and they're like, oh, I see what this company's doing. Like they're totally disrupting the market. Like look at them getting all this attention. How can we do that? But I do think as a social person or even as a general marketer, I think it's good to take a step back and be like, what is it that we're trying to do on here?

11:01What is our goal with even showing up online? Obviously in business, it is to drive business, right? But at the end of the day, I also think it's worth sort of considering everything that we share. It's always going to be, we want validation from people to say what we're sharing is good but is i mean i can share memes all day long that means does not correlate to the things that we're sharing as a business is that going to be impactful so yeah i do i do agree with what you're saying how we're constantly having this filter on and we're and it's just so funny to even think about because i don't even think if you haven't worked in social in that capacity that you would even think like that like just an average everyday social media user do you think about all the layers that go into every post probably not but for some reason the rest of us who like to share things online constantly filtering through you know that's why some of the the create the younger creators succeed um faster because they have this innocence to them when they're posting where yes they they haven't been through the trauma of layers of social over the year um but i wanted to ask like let's say a brand did say we're we're authentic or we're sharing our authentic values as a brand let's say like it's authentic values what are the like the receipts you want to see from them to show that they actually are delivering on that promise or if you if you were trying to define authentic in your company and here are the values of being authentic what are the receipts that the audience is looking for to show that you are delivering on the promise you're saying.

12:40Yeah. I think just seeing it as being a repeated message over and over again. And I find this is actually a challenge for a lot of brands. And I do a lot of consulting on the side too, where it goes back to the Chinese object syndrome, where you start doing things because you think that's going to be in favor of whatever the platform algorithm is going to do and help you get more reach. But I do think that the slower side of building yourselves and your brand does require a lot of work. It requires a lot of iteration, but it requires dedication to actually like seeing the message through. And I find that if you are going to say that our brand value, like I'll use Slate as an example.

13:18We really value the fact of like, we do think social teams are the most under-resourced group of people. And they are typically under, they're under-supported, they're under-resourced, they are not utilized to the max capacity. They are often like the last to be considered for a lot of things, yet they have a high threshold of responsibilities that is, you know, pushed on them day in and day out. But for us, we're like, how do we continue driving the mission that we want to be there to support these teams? So every angle that we do, whether it's talking about our product or us as individual Slate employees talk about anything online, it's always surrounding that message of how do we solve the social problems?

14:00Because we ourselves have existed in this space for a really long time. So we have empathy for that pain. So if we have empathy for these marketers, do the things we say actually help in that way? So we don't really think in terms of like what formats need to go out or that content structure. We just know at our core, if we keep talking about these things more than enough times, like, you know, social teams need to be better supported or, you know, they need to have better tools built for them. Like if we keep having the same conversations in different ways, it's eventually going to get sticky to people where they're like, okay, if we think of any brands that are the most supportive to social team, we're going to think about Slate because we see them posting about it all over the place all the time.

14:39And it's just like keeping that center, that core thought. And I've, I've seen people, I've seen companies who say things like, you know, uh, we want to be, um, we want to be super innovative and innovation is like such a weird term because I'm like, how are you different than the next brand that's saying that they're innovative, you know, but then you have companies like Patagonia who are very mission driven and you see the things that they give back to the community. You see like the way they work with their creators. It's every single touch point of their marketing can like fully validates the things that they post on their website and the things that they say that they stand for, because you just see it repeated over and over again.

15:18I just went on full tangent. No, I agree. I think the core of great content and great social and great marketing is going back to always delivering on that core, like you said, at every touch point. uh i think and that and that's why i think a lot of people don't have a lot of marketing problems they just have a positioning problem or a messaging problem and they don't have i need to put it put out more content i need to do this it's usually that they haven't defined what you have defined at slate they haven't defined what they did at patagonia and they they rely on we are the most innovative blah blah blah blah blah and then they they're wondering why their content or marketing is not hitting as hard as someone who has defined a message that actually hits with their audience yeah and it's such and i know that you know we're we're existing in this time where output and volume is just so demanding because a lot of times and i do think it's honestly the lack of the lack of deep, deep knowledge towards how, you know, marketing or social operates.

16:39But I think like this whole thing of, we want that dopamine quick results. Like we want to go viral. We want that attention is so like everybody fiends for it that I feel like it distracts people from actually putting in the effort to build that sort of reputation, you know, because it requires a lot of work. Like it's a slow burn in a way, but I think it's worth the effort to push into that and really like develop your positioning because that is so important. And I find that you eventually double back on it anyway. So if you're focused so hard on like, we just need more content, more content, more content, but then it doesn't relate to anything because now you have a variety of content that doesn't connect back to any core messaging.

17:23That's when people are like, how are you any different from any other SaaS company or any other company in the market for that manner? Let me ask you this then. So what matters more today in the market? Is it when it comes to content? Is it distribution, differentiation or depth? I think depth. I think we are lacking a lot of depth, especially because we are existing in this whole AI bubble right now, where people are serious, they are so and honestly, I will praise people for being really adaptive, and they're really quick to absorbing a lot of stuff. But man, the AI sludge that's coming out, because everybody is, again, feeling that pressure to put more output out there, that, I don't know, I think people are creating really good quality depth.

18:11Like they want people who are more thoughtful. They want brands who are actually like putting some, I don't know, some strong point of views and opinions behind the things that they're sharing. You know, when you go down that depth, I think a lot of it comes from doing things that don't exist on the Internet, which is like getting first party data from your customers or getting the problem sets of. interviews and reviews and that's why i love podcasts because we get this raw transcript this raw transcript could be a whole new first party data article that nobody has because i'm taking it from something that's coming from your your mind and creating something new that nobody has seen on the internet because we haven't had this conversation has never happened before between I mean, which I think that's where also I think that you said this.

19:06It's a lack of thinking. And also when you go to AI, you're just saying write me more marketing content instead of saying think about what marketing content is actually needed in this world. Because you could create great content with AI if you know how to take multiple pieces of AI, do deep research first, then take the parts of the research that is great. and then plug and play together, which is a skill to take different information and put it into one place. I mean, you could use AI and create something great. I think the problem is that we're just trying to, like you said, get this hamster wheel of getting the most amount of content out and it's not working for a lot of brands.

19:51Someone had asked me in the last few months because in the beginning, I was a big, Like I had very strong opinions about people using AI as part of their creative outputs. And I had a lot of strong opinions that I shared across LinkedIn. But somebody had asked me the other day, like, do I fear AI is going to take my job? And I don't see it as taking my job because I don't think, I mean, I would hope not. Maybe in a few years, you know, who knows? But I don't think it's going to take my job. I do think it requires a prompt level skills of how to use AI as a tool that could help me be better at my job and get me unstuck at some of those things.

20:32And it is like you say, and I remember one of my response back to them was like, I think lazy marketers will always be lazy marketers, regardless of whatever tool they're using or any of that sort. The output will always be the same, whether they have the tool or they're not. It's just going to, you know, that is the way it is. But I think for us creative folks or people who are really like attuned with what good content is, they'll learn how to adapt and, you know, partner with all of this stuff to take it to that next level. And I, yeah, I just want, I don't know. I think as a personal social usage and stuff, I just feel tired a lot of times when I read, when I see content, I get really tired of the bullshit and the repetitive stuff that I'm like, this is not, I, I actually can watch things on mute and keep scrolling, but then there'll be something about one video that'll get me to stop and I can watch a full 15, 20 minute video as long as like, you know, it's good content.

21:36And I know a lot of people, and this is like me rambling on, I know a lot of people also say like people have a short attention span. I think people just have a short patience for shitty content. so yeah plus one i've said that i mean i agree too i've said that a thousand times i think i think the bar for good content just gets higher every every year and a lot of people stay at the old bar or they stay below the bar and that's why they're not breaking through i think since we're getting so much content out there that's why that's why when we go back and watch a movie that we liked maybe 10 years ago and we see how bad like like the effects were and this and this and then we watch a movie today and see how 10x better it became the bar of creating a movie is now i mean there is great storytelling and there are great movies in the past and i do believe that yes but the ones that were created poorly and were great at that time are like supersede the ones that now are could supersede if they have the storytelling and the aspects of a great movie and have that extra layer of creating great content on there that is such a good analogy to compare it to uh it just the bar that's just the bar is getting bad and you just have to keep and i think the thing about tools would i think we just had the conversation about tools is the the marketers that are going to win is the ones that could make themselves 10x 20x 30x better with the tools it's not the ones that are going to be replaced by the tools is how can i make this tool make me as a marketer right 10x better at my job 20x better at my job and like not 2x because a lot of people are already becoming 2x better that job because they could do they can read things at super speed they can digest information faster but how can we get 10x 20x 30x 40x 50x better at a job with ai i even think on the subject of ai have you noticed how quick people i mean even ourselves um can detect ai content like first we can detect obviously ai writing but now you know with all the ai videos coming out it's just so funny how the human brain works because it's like how do you tell the difference between ai writing versus a human writing you know but then there are these pattern detection that you pick up and i'm just i think it's just so funny i wonder where we're going to be in about five years with this stuff like am i going to have a harder time figuring out what is ai content i think i think we're going to all have harder times i just think if people are writing with ai if you can you always need that human sprinkle to go parse through it to make sure it sounds correct to make sure it has taste to make sure the examples are good to make sure it's performative um and my audience would like that because i do i do truly believe one of the hardest and social people have it and content people have it and one of the hardest things to teach is taste and creativity it's hard to teach it and ai is only the inputs you give it so if you have a great taste and expertise that that's why i feel for the new marketers coming in because expertise is what teaches taste you have to be able to see things over and over and over to get taste and i think the marketers who have built that muscle are going to be stronger and stronger now like creative marketers are going to be the ones that are are harder because now ai could just analyze data like this like you don't need to be great at data anymore yeah yeah it's crazy i say in a way you know there that is the flip side where it could handle all the mundane stuff that i hated about my job and let me focus on being creatives and maybe sometimes my focus on being creative is laying on the floor and having a long think yeah i mean that's i think that's the benefit i think we we weren't for 10 years allowed to be able to have time to think because we had so much time to we had so little time to do everything else so and that's the social managers like like we're talking about social right now like social media managers since their job is blah blah blah like all the time trying to do this stuff they don't have time to think about the next big creative idea because the next free creator they don't have time to do it they don't have time to just go on a walk and refer because the best ideas don't happen when you work and you work all the time you're screwed right and it's so funny because this all goes in a full circle moment of us talking about authenticity earlier if we want so badly to create original content that resonates with people we do have to carve out that space to give ourselves the moment to just think a little more deeply on things um let's let's go back to something specific about so what do you think um social teens must understand about making content efficient or efficiently?

27:10What do I think they mistaken to build? That's a great question. I think they mistaken creating content efficiently by just like more volume. I really think it's just like, how can I produce the most amount of content in a short amount of time? So that way I can plug it all in the calendar and batch it in a month's time. And social moves so fast these days that the method of managing these accounts that I've done maybe 10 years ago, you know, with the whole calendar, batching, doing social holidays and all these other things, that stuff doesn't work anymore. We have to move at the speed of culture.

27:48Yes, agreed. But we have to also be attuned with what's happening and be able to read the room a little bit and create content that's actually going to be sticky. So I think in order for folks to do that, they really just got to have, I don't know, better tooling, better understanding of what their company goals are. And the way they could be efficient is having all that clear in the very beginning. And so there's no hiccup along the way. I think sometimes as social people, we have this idea of how we want to project the company forward by simply creating content. but it doesn't, it's very hard to tie it back to what the business trajectory is.

28:27And so we need to marry, you know, social and the greater marketing a little bit more. Yeah, I love that. I think the old, the old social way of doing things is never going to work again. And I think it goes back to what we said at the beginning. And you said, where great content is just relevancy and relevancy could be in a lot of different buckets. Like relevancy is, are you relevant with the pain points of your audience, which is evergreen. That's evergreen bucket you could do. And the next bucket is, is there a trend that's happening right now that's relevant to my audience that I can hop on as a brand that fits my brand?

29:10That's relevancy. That's another stage of relevancy. And then the next bucket of relevancy is, is there something original that I could do to become a relevant brand and there's like buckets of trend there's a bucket of the evergreen stuff which I know is going to work all the time and then there's like that original bucket and I think you 70 % should probably go in the the pain point evergreen stuff because that won't but you need to be able to have space for the that 20 % of trend jumping on and that 10 % of original ideas to win in social. I think teams just got to have to like have an agreement and work together.

29:53Whenever I join any new company, I spend about, you know, a couple of months just fine tuning everyone's understanding of what our goals are on social or even with, you know, broader marketing, because having that clear understanding from the CEO all the way down to like your very junior intern and knowing like you know what our hopes are with this that's gonna that's gonna make the work so much better i mean i even know it's basic stuff too like setting the brand guidelines in the beginning implementing it across social like do we use certain graphics for this stuff do we use this font do we use this color um those are the little thing little details that i don't think people often think about and then they get stuck into this whole tunnel of back and forth back and forth and that just slows the entire process of growth down let me ask you this so what is the smallest amount of content a brand can produce and still win on social like how what is what is that level because is it because there is a level where you're posting so little that you're not even in the feed and you're not being relevant.

31:07So what is that bar for you? You're sitting on a gold mine of customer data and it's doing nothing for you. That's not a data problem. That's a tools problem. Customer.io connects your data to every channel you already use. SMS, email, push, in-app. Then it uses AI to build workflows that used to take weeks. Every message feels like it's written for that customer, not blasted at them. 8 ,000 plus brands already made the switch. Learn more at customer.io slash TMM. I do think per platform, depending on what platform they want to prioritize, let's say if they have one social person, they should probably only choose two platforms max because realistically, you need platform specialists to understand like the current culture that's happening on those channels too.

31:56That being said, let's say one or two platform max, I would say at a minimum, you should do two or three posts a week. And the post does not always have to be something original and new. Again, earlier you had just said, we should have this bucket of evergreen content. That's something that's created across the team, not just social. That can certainly be used again and again as time goes on. But then we save the space of being like, let's have some actually highly thoughtful original content come out too. I like to work in content sprints. where I like to really think about what's happening in the space.

32:29And the content sprint could be like two weeks where we're always kind of leapfrogging. The content that we're creating now will probably show up in two weeks time. And then during that two weeks, we're batching the next two weeks. So that's the minimum. I think two to three weeks. So that way you stay relevant, keep it on. And if you only have one person, you should only do a max of two platforms. Because I think any more than that, you're rinsing and repeating and probably using the same content across all these channels. and it's not going to land the same way and you're just wasting your efforts.

32:59Yeah, A plus, better to be an B to A on channels than a C on every, because if you are posting all the channels, you're going to end up being a C across all those channels and you're not going to one-on-one channel. Yeah, and realistically, how are you going to know what's actually working if you don't have that focus there? We need focus, you know? And I think like expecting one person, And that's why I feel, I think, carrying the battle wounds from all those years ago of having to manage all the platform meta being Facebook specifically being the, I swear to God, I would rather swallow glass than ever have to log into Facebook again.

33:39That said, I do think there are certain people who are just more, they're just hyper aware of what these channels are doing currently. and so and they do it because the active users on there or they just like they're following the things expecting one person to manage all those channels and the equal amount of focus is that that would be insane they would probably have to work 90 100 hours a week because there's no freaking way because social person has to be chronically online they have to be managing the platform not just in the content output but then also managing the reactions the community building you know also scrolling through the content that's on there that's a lot for one person chronically online on every platform which is and then and then you're mind sharing on a lot of platforms so you actually aren't consuming enough on the one or two platforms that you're trying to win on because you're trying to consume on all these platforms and that a lot of winning on social it's just the person who is consuming so much on that platform they know what the community wants what works what format works how i'm going to deliver this content how i'm going to package it up is the is it changing is it video now is it text is it this is it that um is because facebook like facebook works for some brands and instagram works with some brands and X works with some brands and LinkedIn works with some brands, but you should be the platform that works for your brand and be a winner on that platform.

35:18Then you can figure out those other platforms along the line. Yeah, 100%. I think the new wave of how people are developing their marketing team and especially when it goes down to social, I really think they should lean into getting platform specialists because I think it's good to have somebody dedicated in studying each of these channels. They do it for paid. I mean. Yeah, that's true. That's right. They do do it for paid. Yeah, for paid teams, you have an expert who knows how to do it. If you have a well-oiled paid machine, you have someone who's probably running paid. And then you have someone who's an expert in Facebook and an expert in Google.

35:57And if you're on TikTok, you have someone who knows how to run TikTok and TikTok shop. You don't have one person running those five. Otherwise, you're not going to win on those channels. And they don't do that. You don't treat we don't treat social the same unless you're a big brand who has the budget to be treated. Who also has the budget to hire agencies to then focus on those channels, which is that itself is always bizarre to me. when I hear I'm lucky enough to be able to, in the last two companies, and especially right now, I get to have these one-on-one times with different social teams across various industries.

36:35And the pain point is always the same, where it's just like, some of the bottlenecks that we experience from the organic side, it's like you have the conversation of always having to manage up in a way of telling people like, hey, we need more resources. They're telling you we want more attention. And you're like, okay, great, but I need help in this. and their idea of help is not giving people the tools that they need. It's always like, let's hire a contractor or an agency to come in and do this focus where they could have brought on an in-house person, ramp them up on this channel and really give them the tools necessary to build it to the next level.

37:12That's why I am very, I'm super opinionated. And I think like not to do a plug here, but I do think the way we're running Slate's marketing right now, we're all social experts in our own respect because we've all worked in managing social accounts across like in our experiences. And so our team is made up of people who are different platform specialists. And so we get to come together and have these like jam sesh where we could think of one piece of content, but then see it through the lens of the platforms that we care about. For us, our priority right now is LinkedIn. And we also have Substack.

37:48But, you know, we're also thinking a lot about how Instagram was and like, where do we want to consider Facebook? But that's the conversation we can have because we're in a fortunate position where we have enough social people on the on the marketing team that could have that. Yeah, because also platform insights, I do highly believe that messaging on one platform will work on another platform. It's just packaging on platforms. So if you were dominating, let's say LinkedIn as a company, and you're saying, I want to go on Instagram. If you look at your top 50 highest performing LinkedIn posts and you get someone who's an Instagram expert to package that into reels, into slideshows, into using the correct trending music and trial reels and all these things that are working on Instagram, and you get someone to do that, I highly think you will win on that platform.