The Online Marketing Secrets You Need to Know with Amy Porterfield | Ep. 428

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0:25Welcome to the Marketing Millennials, the no BS marketing podcast. I'm Daniel Murray and join me for unfiltered conversations with the brains behind marketing's coolest companies. The one request I tell our guests, stories or it didn't happen. Get ready to turn the f*** up. Welcome back to the Marketing Millennials. I am here with the Amy Porterfield. You probably all know Amy Porterfield. She has one of the top podcasts out there. She is crushing in marketing. She's always crushing marketing. She's launching a new show, the Amy Porterfield Show. We're excited to all listen to that. We want to talk about what you built your podcast on and how to make online marketing easy.

1:18But first of all, welcome to the show. Well, thanks so much for having me. I've been looking forward to this. I want to start into the first question, which I think is online marketing is always changing. But what do you see that's working right now that was not effective one year ago? Well, I feel as though the landscape has changed dramatically. You know, I've been doing this for 16 years. And I think this year and last year, I've seen the most changes. And by changes, I mean things that were working really well are not necessarily working like they used to. And so with that, we've had to really start to think about what can we do differently?

2:01What would allow us to stand out and differentiate? And with that, we as a company have come back to personalization. And anybody listening can take advantage of this concept of personalizing your online marketing strategies. So it could be as simple as you start having more conversations in the DMs on Instagram. This is something that we've done. You know, ManyChat has been on the scene for a while now, really popular last year. I don't know if it's going to keep its popularity into this year, but I do know one way to make it stronger is if you start having real conversations with people. And so those touch points, such as a DM, I think are going a long way.

2:44considering that we kind of got a really far away from it for so long, didn't actually need it as much. I think it's needed. Another personalization idea that I've seen work really well recently, just yesterday, I was on someone's website and I was looking at one of their digital courses they were selling. And I went to the page and they had a simple sales page, but a video of this woman came up in the corner and she just started talking so casually that you thought she was live almost, but she was saying, Hey, I'm so glad you came here. You're probably thinking this or that, and you might be wondering da da da.

3:20So she just starts talking to you in the little corner. And so I felt like, Oh my gosh, like she totally gets me because everything she was saying, I was thinking before buying her program. So anywhere that you can add touches of video, actually making people feel like I am focused right on you right now. I'm talking to you. I care about what you have to say. And then also gearing your marketing toward really understanding your ideal customer avatar. Like what do they think? What are they saying? What do they need? And then turning that into the personalization, whatever it might look like in your business, it's gone a long way for us.

3:56And we've absolutely seen conversions increase because of it. One of the things you're really good at is growing a following. And a lot of brands are looking at growing their following, but they don't really know how to translate that into sales. So how have you took your following and turned it into a paying customer? I love this question because there is a principle that I have lived by for the last 16 years in growing my business. And that is that I have stayed in my lane. So I believe because the internet is so noisy and it's only getting noisier. And I feel as though, you know, Back in the day, I had a few competitors.

4:37Now I feel like I have hundreds doing very similar things that I am doing. And the one reason why if you are in a room and you are talking to other internet marketers like all of us and someone says, I want to create a digital course, do you know someone who can help me create and launch a digital course? I can guarantee you nine times out of 10, my name is in that conversation. And I don't say that to brag. I say that to say it was by design. So many years ago, I started creating courses in my own business and then realized the number one question I was getting is, why are your courses so successful?

5:12What are you doing to grow your email list and get so many people to buy your courses? So around that time is where I shifted the business, starting to teach people how to create and launch their digital courses. And this is many years ago. And since then, that is what I do. I'm like a dog with a bone. I'm optimizing that niche in my world and I'm getting better and better at it. I also am along the same lines of how I've become known for something and built my brand is that I don't have a lot of courses. I don't have a lot of products. So up until this year, we're experimenting with some small group coaching.

5:50But up until this year, I had one evergreen program, one live launch course that I launch once a year and a membership. And the only way you get into the membership is if you've gone through my$2 ,000 program and you get an invite. It's$97 a month, but you get an invite only after you've gone. So three courses, Evergreen, live launched in a membership. And last year we made over$17 million with a simple suite like that. And so when you become known for something and you keep your offers very, very minimal, but you get really good at what you do. To me, that is the secret sauce to growing a really thriving brand.

6:33I think another thing you do really well, and I want to get your opinion on it, is you're really open about your challenges and the behind the scenes struggles in a business. So how has that level of vulnerability helped you connect with your audience? You know, that's a huge compliment you just gave me because years ago, no one would say that about me. And they always said, I wish you'd be open up. I wish you would share more. And in my mind, I had this podcast, Online Marketing Made Easy. I taught online marketing. Why do you care about, you know, the worst year of my business where it didn't work out or challenges that my husband has with me because I'm running this business and I'm always working and all of that.

7:15But then I realized, I care. I want to know behind the scenes of what you're doing and how you're doing it. So I leaned into it more. But I just want to say to anyone that doesn't feel natural, it didn't feel natural for a long time for me. But I just knew that personalization, I had to be more personal as well. And so I have a philosophy around that. I never share the oozy scabs. I only share the scars. And here's what I mean. When I'm going through something and anyone building a business or working for a thriving business, we have challenges every single day. And so when I'm going through something and it's just not working and I'm struggling and I have a day where I just, the tears start flowing and nothing seems to be working and I do not have the answer.

7:59I'm not sharing that. I'm not sharing it because the only value is, yeah, you struggle like me, Amy, but I think it's pretty obvious we all struggle when we're building businesses. The value comes from the lessons that I've learned. So until I am out of it, I don't have to be years out of it, but until I'm out of it and I look back and be like, whoa, that was tough. I never want to go through that again. And I can share how I went through it and what I did to get through it, then I'm not sharing it until then. And I do think that that has also allowed me to be a trusted advisor in my space because I think some people think being a hot mess online and sharing every oozy scab you have makes you more relatable.

8:42It also takes away your authority. And so with that, I want to be an authority, but I also want to be relatable. And so you're right. I share every challenge, every mistake I've made, such as bringing a partner on that I already had a business making a million dollars. I bring a partner on. He doesn't have to pay any money to get into my business and I make him a 50-50 partner. What the heck was I thinking? And then from there, we did really, really well until it wasn't what I wanted anymore. And to get out of it because we didn't sign any real agreements was hell. And so I share all that to say, don't do that.

9:17Don't make the mistake I made. But you can bet I didn't say a word about it when I was going through it. I just don't think there's a lot of value there. And I think it takes away some trust. So you've been sharing, and I commend you for doing that. That's one of the hardest things to do is share those deeper things about your, your life and your struggles. But I do, I do like your opinion on that because I, everybody goes through struggles and I think you have to, you're really good at giving the tactical advice to things and you're known for giving the tactical advice. So until it becomes something tactical, someone you do is just fluff in there.

9:56I'm not saying what you're going through is focused. Everybody's good, but you're just known for that. So it makes sense that it's core to your brand to share that when it's, it becomes like a tactical lesson that someone can take. I love that you said that because I think that is one of the ways that I can kind of separate myself from other people who teach online marketing is I really teach the step-by-step and I don't expect you to know anything when you're just starting out. And because I have attracted a lot of beginners as well as those that are more established, the beginner marketers are like, I don't even know what words you're using.

10:34What do you mean like a click-through rate? Like if they're really beginner, they have no clue. And if I don't go step-by-step, they feel that they're not good enough or smart enough. But I remember when I didn't know what that stuff meant. So yeah, it's really important to me to just take it step-by-step. And then I teach more advanced strategies to my students who are making 500K, a million. And even then they're looking for the step-by-step end strategy. And it takes longer to teach, but it sets me apart. So I appreciate you acknowledging that. Yeah. I think you always have to write for the lowest common denominator or talk to the lowest common denominator of your audience.

11:12Because I get this all the time. Sometimes you get in this marketing mode of saying CTR or CAC, and you're saying all these like terms, but there's someone out there that doesn't know CAC, doesn't know CTR, doesn't know all these. So just even spelling it out for someone quickly goes a huge way when you're creating content. You know, I have a question for you. Do you, if I told you TOV, would you know what that meant? I want you to say no. I have a new CMO on my team and she's really smart. And she throws out these terms that - Is it a tone of voice? Is it a tone of voice? You weren't supposed to guess it.

11:55I wanted you not to know because I had no idea. I'm like, what does TOV mean in the marketing space? So I share this to say, and you're smarter than I am. I share this to say, I still don't know some of these things. She is so much more advanced than me in some of the strategies she's doing. So it reminds me to slow down a little bit because you're right. You just don't know what people don't know. And it makes you feel a certain way sometimes when you're trying to get it going and you're struggling a little. So you create content on a lot of different platforms. You have a podcast, you have email list, you have big socials, but if you could create content on one platform, where would you invest your time right now?

12:38Podcasting, a million percent. So to me, my podcast is the backbone of my business. And as you mentioned, I've had a podcast since 2013 called Online Marketing Made Easy. And I've recently transitioned into the Amy Porterfield Show, which will be a lot of the same and then some new conversations and dig a little bit deeper and be more vulnerable and take people behind the scenes. So it will be better, but it's still an extension of what it was. and I tell you that to say, I can't imagine building the business I have today without my podcast. And the reason for that is number one, you get into somebody's ear and they walk around with you, they take you on workouts, they're cleaning the house, they're doing whatever and all of a sudden, they are so familiar with your voice that you meet them in real life at an event, they think you two are best friends.

13:27People treat me like they've known me forever but I know what it is. It's because they've heard my voice for so many years because I feel like that about the people I follow. And so there's this connection that I think is really special with podcasting. But the other thing that I really love about it is that the podcast platforms from Apple to Spotify to iHeartRadio, when you do the work and you create a really good podcast, they are pushing you out to people that you would never have access to. And so to me, it's the best lead builder, audience builder, because of the majority, I mean, the vast majority of people that listen to podcasts.

14:04It's a very normal thing now. And so I love that. But I will tell you, I probably wouldn't love my podcast or say that it's a huge asset in my business if I didn't treat it like an asset. So I've done advertising on my podcast before. And for right now, I'd say I won't say never again, but I don't like it because I'm talking about things that sometimes I don't use. And that makes me feel really out of integrity. So then I say, okay, I'm only saying yes to the ads of tools I use like Slack, Asana, membership.io. I'll market them if they want to pay me because I use the tools. But there's only so many of those that are going to work for my show.

14:42What I love and what I've gone back to this year is marketing my own things. So I use it as a huge list builder and an opportunity to sell. So if I'm in a promo, you can bet that I'm seeding episodes that are leading up to that promo topic. And then I'm inviting people to a quiz. Then I'm inviting them to a masterclass and I seamlessly weave it into my podcast. So now my podcast is marketing my programs and products and I'm making way more money on that than I am for some ad spend or when people spend money with my ads. So that's why it's such a huge asset. I mean, you just launched an episode on that you're launching the Amy Porterford show, and then you gave a little nuggets of what's to come, what to expect.

15:27These are the episodes you're going to, so people now have a reason to tune in of what they're going to expect in the show. So you've already dropped that nugget in their head that someone's. Something's coming. Yeah, exactly. So I'm excited about it. So podcast number one channel, if you, what advice do you give someone if they wanted to start a podcast today? I would say, keep it simple. One of the easiest things to do, especially now, is that there's so many opportunities with great mics and different technology and different ways for you to do it. And I would say, keep it as simple as you can.

16:03But here's something I would say to anyone wanting to start a podcast today that I didn't have to worry about back then. And that is, I think you need to do video as well. And believe me, I'm not happy about this because with Amy Porterfield show, every episode is going to be on video. And I don't know, you tell me, do you ever listen to podcasts by watching them? Is that something you do? I like the experience of when I'm on Spotify and I can go look at the episode on video for a couple minutes of it, not the whole thing. So there's some shows I'm looking at, and I'm like, oh, I want to see how they're reacting or what their reactions were.

16:43but I've never just sat at my computer and turned on YouTube to look at a video. Same. But I love that you said that because I listen to true crime way too much. And on this app that I listened to, um, crime junkies, they have a bunch of pictures of like, not the gory stuff, but who these people are. And I'm curious sometimes too. So I get what you're saying. It's a little different, but I get it. But I, when I was listening to Gary Vaynerchuk recently, and he was saying, film it all. Film it all because you can slice and dice it for social media and for different things that you do in your business.

17:20And I'm on the same page for sure. I am not naturally comfortable on video. I don't love it. Back in the day when I could just podcast and never had to get on video, I loved it. And then when video started to come on slowly, people would say, hey, we're going to do a video podcast. I'm like, no, I hate it. But now it's like everything you do is video. So if I was starting a podcast today, I just bite the bullet. I do video and audio. Of course, I would keep my technology simple and I wouldn't overthink it because as you get going, your audience will show you what they like and what they don't like.

17:54And you can evolve with that. I think a lot of my students don't take the leap and start the podcast because they're overthinking it and they want it to be perfect and it never will be. So my advice is just get started. And if you can be more specific with your topic, by all means, it's so, so competitive out there right now that if you have a really general topic, I think it's harder to get seen and heard today versus back then. The reason why I think I think podcast is a great channel. And I think the way I think about content is you need to have something that's your pillar content whether it's a newsletter or a podcast something but the great thing about podcasts is one you what you said you can slice and dice it and put it on all these short form video platforms like youtube shores instagram reels all that stuff but with the rise of ai you get this transcript of long form content that you aren't getting with written content it's hard to write 45 minutes worth of content but you can talk with an expert for 45 minutes an hour and you get this transcript and you can use AI to transcribe it, transform it, and learn your voice, your tone, your episode and create way more content.

19:15So that's why I think podcast is really underrated in that form because you get these, with AI, it's made it so easy to get these long transcripts out of them. You are so right. I'm so glad you said that. using that for so many different opportunities. Or now show notes have never been easier, right? Like, holy cow, they just are done within a second. So I agree, feeding it and then pulling out great content for other channels. It's such a perfect way to do it. One thing you've done, I mean, you've helped thousands and thousands of people create digital courses. So what is like the first step for someone who wants to turn their expertise into an online product?

19:59I love this question because obviously I love to talk about courses, but the reason I started creating courses in the very first place is that I wanted to do a one-to-many model. I knew that if I was going to do one-to-one or have a few clients, I would always hit a ceiling. There's one of me and I only have so many hours in a day. So the draw of one-to-many and more freedom in the business that I created is why I created courses. So when someone says they might want to create a course, what I typically say, a lot of people come to me and they are doing coaching, consulting type businesses. And they said, if I create a course, no one's gonna want my coaching and consulting.

20:38And no matter if you do coaching, consulting or agency or whatever, that tends to come up. If I create a course, no one's gonna buy this other thing that I'm making money on right now. It's not true. There are two different people in this world. One that wants to pay the premium, wants more access to you, wants more support. And then there's an audience that either can't support that or they are lone wolves and they want to be on their own. So they're going to do the course on their terms and on their time. So it really is a very different kind of audience. And when you add a course to your existing business, whether around what you're already doing or a different topic, you're now just expanding your audience tenfold, if not more.

21:20And so you're going to attract people that never would have bought from you before. And so when I'm asked what is the first step, the first thing you want to do is start thinking about your topic. and not just thinking about a topic, but validating a topic. And so whether that means you do surveys, you do social polls, you get people on Zoom calls and you do a focus group, we've got to validate that idea because it's not enough to say, hey, if I create a course on XYZ, will you buy it? Everyone will say yes to be nice and they think they will. But then when it comes down to you got to do the work and you got to pay it, it's a different story.

21:57So really understanding asking questions about their habits, what they need, what they've tried before to really understand if you have a product they would pay for, that's the first step that you want to spend a little time on. And one of the best ways, I mean, that you've sold so many courses is building that list. And you talked a little bit about that you take a lot of people onto your list from your podcast. So what are the ways you are bringing people on your list and how could people start building their list today to be able to, even if they don't have a course right now, it's probably one of the best assets that they'll have down the road.

22:34I think that if you don't have an email list, you don't have a thriving business. I think it's too hard to keep a viable business going without an email list. When I worked for Tony Robbins, he used to do a business class. And at the time I was an employee. I didn't have an email list, nor did I really care about one. I wasn't in marketing. And he used to always say, it is the most important asset in your business. And then when I started my own business, I'm like, I 100 % get it now. Because one thing you want to think about with a list, because I'll tell you two strategies I use to grow my email list.

23:09But if you don't understand the power of it, you won't want to do these strategies because they take work and time and list building is a slow growth for sure. But here's what I love about a list at any time if I need extra money. Let's just go to worst case scenario. I'm struggling. Something happened. Something came up in my life. If I need extra money, I, in my business today, can send an email today and make thousands of dollars today, right now, at this time in the afternoon because I've nurtured this list. They're on there for the right reason. They want to learn more. And I email them every single week.

23:46So that's one of the strategies to keep a healthy email list, they need to hear from you weekly, twice a week, anything less than that. You are not top of mind for them. And if you email less and less and less, they'll open less and less and less. So the consistency of emailing once a week, you have a newsletter, you have a thriving newsletter. To me, that's one of the best ways to continue to get out in front of people over and over through email. Because then when you promote, they trust you. They're used to opening up your emails and they're more likely to open up a promo email. But the two strategies that I've used to create the list that I have today, number one, in the last few years, I've done this a lot.

24:24Any kind of quiz or assessment is a really fast, good way to grow an email list. People love to talk about themselves and learn about themselves. So for the ladies listening, you'll know this. When we were younger, we would get into these magazines and it would be like, are you more of a strawberry or a banana when it comes to XYZ? It was very silly and ridiculous, but we're always filling it out like, I don't know, what am I? And so we just like to know this stuff. And as teenagers, we did it. And today it just looks a little bit different, but it's the same kind of vibe. And so any kind of quiz or assessment in order to get people into your world, here's why it's so valuable.

25:03Not only are they to get the results of the quiz, they have to give their email list or email address, but also you're learning about them. So the more you can learn about them, the more you can deliver what they want. So I feel like it's a win-win, but also we have found that running paid advertising to quizzes tends to be pretty inexpensive versus running an ad to a webinar. So it's actually a better bang for your buck. So that's one way we've done it and we've done many types of quizzes. But the second way is I launch and every time I launch, I do typically do a bootcamp that people sign up for in a webinar that people sign up for.

25:41And so these are free. My bootcamps aren't free anymore, but they're low priced, but the webinars are all free. And so every single launch, I'm getting 30 ,000 new people on my email list. And then if I nurture them well, the next time I launch, they're more likely to buy. So promote more and give opportunities for signing up for whatever it might be. And also consider an assessment or a quiz. And you talked about this at the beginning of the podcast, that personalization is the key in 2025. But quizzes are one of the best ways and webinars to get zero-party data on your audience. So you're getting things that go beyond.

26:22Because there are tools now. We're in the age where there's tools that you can enrich to get better data on that audience. but you can't enrich to get their favorite color or their biggest fear. Yeah, their fear. So they're giving you things that you can use to make your marketing more personal to them, even if you're not. And then you can separate them in different lists. Like if their fear is this, if your fear is that. And that's personalization as well. I love that. So I want people to really understand that. Let's say you do a quiz and they're going to fall into four different buckets. so they're, you know, I don't know, but they're different categories depending on how they answer.