The Simplest Conversion Lever You’re Not Testing | Bathroom Break #91

0:07Jay Winebrenner:Welcome to a new special series called The Bathroom Break. That extra 10 minutes you either have to listen to marketing tips or use the bathroom or both.

0:16Daniel McGraw:But I don't recommend both, but that's your choice. This collab is going to be super fun. We have Daniel Murray from the Marketing Millennials and me, Jay Schwetelson, from the Do This Not That podcast and subjectline.com. each episode in the series, we are going to go over quick tips about different marketing topics. And if you want to be in the bathroom, fine, just don't tell us about it. Thanks for checking it out.

0:39Jay Winebrenner:We are back with another bathroom break. I am here with the man who officially sold subjectline.com, Guru Conference, Certified Guru to, drum roll please, if you're not online,

0:57Daniel McGraw:constant contact you suck you're such an idiot you really are an idiot uh so everybody go flood

1:05Jay Winebrenner:his dms flood everything and say congrats because this is a big deal yeah this is a really great

1:11Daniel McGraw:episode you're in your car right now you're like okay great i need to hear about jay selling some random thing no uh first of all thanks i'm stoked it's really cool constant contact cool company but beyond all that, I'm not going anywhere. We're still causing all the chaos with Guru Conference. We're gearing it up bigger than ever and they're leaning in. They want to make this crazier than ever. So everyone's like, oh my goodness, do you feel so relaxed now? Do you feel like she's just going, no. I feel 10X like more anxiety, more everything that I did before because now I want to crush life and my wife is like, what's wrong with you?

1:48Daniel McGraw:You're like worse than ever.

1:49Jay Winebrenner:I'm like, I don't know. I can't help myself. Oh my goodness. I mean, it's pressure when you're like, have a, you want to make it even better and better and better since you have a company involved. So that is true.

2:02Daniel McGraw:It is a weird thing though. I can, you know, like with you, with your clients, whatever, do you, do you wake up? I'm just curious about like your own pressure, whatever. Do you ever feel like this? Like, okay, great. We got a big deal or whatever. Who cares? Whatever. Or do you instantly be like, how am I going to over deliver? like where's your mindset on deals in general I think it always the bigger the client the more

2:25Jay Winebrenner:pressure to over deliver the bigger the and it always it usually the correlation to how much someone pays you is the pressure of over delivering so if it's like a small deal then I'm I'm I'm going to still over deliver because that's my nature of work but if someone's coming in they come with these expectations, a bigger deal, and they want to pay you more to do something, then it's them.

2:52Daniel McGraw:Let me ask you, I know this isn't the topic we're going to get into, but I'm just curious. I'm talking about if you're going to do a deal with somebody and they don't have a lot of budget, okay? And it's not one of these companies that, you know, they're giving you a small budget. If you do a good job, they're giving you a big budget. It's one of these opportunities where they're like, this budget for us is a huge deal. We don't even normally spend this much. We really don't even have it, but we believe in what you're doing. We're going to give it a try, but really we need this to go super far.

3:19Daniel McGraw:A lot of times I actually turn down those opportunities because when the money means that much to them, and frankly, I'm being a jerk here, and there's no upside if I do a great job, I get concerned about, is this a good use of time? Does that make me a bad person?

3:35Jay Winebrenner:No, I mean, especially in service business, you're trading time for action where like if you're a software company means a little less. but if i mean a software company does if you have a lot of like customer support onboarding team and then you could allocate those resources to a bigger deal but i think no i think if there's a chance that that company you believe that company has the potential to like scale in the future and you are on the scaling ship then yes but otherwise the pressure i don't want your pressure of your 100 % budget on me because, and I'm the fail point. I don't want to be the fail point.

4:16Jay Winebrenner:I totally agree with that.

4:17Daniel McGraw:100%. Yeah. That's a good way to frame it. All right. Speaking of that, let's frame the topic of the day where we're talking about here. You know, Daniel and I, we're talking about, okay, all these different topics we want to talk about. And you know, something I realized with Daniel is that probably the easiest thing that you can do to radically change the sale of your consumer product, the amount of your B2B content getting downloaded or registered for, how many donations your nonprofit is getting. It's not your actual offer, your creative, your automation stream, your landing page, any of that.

4:48Daniel McGraw:Believe it or not, it's the simplest thing. It is the title. It is the name of your content piece. It is the name of your offer. It is the name of your sale. And marketers get so confused. your offer name, your sale name is not your dog. You can change the name of that offer, that content piece. And if you're not testing an AB version of just the title of your offer or sale or donation push, it is the easiest thing to test. And it is the thing that you're probably not doing that can have the biggest impact on all of your conversions.

5:24Jay Winebrenner:I also have a deep feeling that you don't have to marry to like that offer name for everyone you can personalize names to groups of your audience and still package it the same but if if you're if you have different sections in your in your audience and they respond differently to different words or different ways you frame things it's also good to send emails or do paid ads framing it one way to this with this title and then to another person frame it but i do agree that a b testing smart we do this all the time as marketers on email subject lines but we don't um if you're on social you do it on thumbnails if you're on instagram you do try if you're doing it you try reels but we don't think about like should we change it to five x y z or the ultimate this playbook or but we just say this is put it out there and why is my content not getting viewed most of the time it's the hook it's a title that it's not opening it so all right so i want to give you some quick simple tests

6:35Daniel McGraw:coming out of this that you can try it couldn't be easier all you need to do on that next whatever push that you're doing, it could be a content piece, could be a consumer sale, could be a nonprofit push. All you're going to do is literally change a word. That's it. It's like called your modifier only test. So for example, let's say you were pushing, you know, the HR guide for SMBs. That's your offer title, which is horrendous, generic, and boring. Change it to quick fix HR guide for SMBs. Do a head-to-head test, A version, boring version, B version. You stick in that modifier. What would you rather download, the HR guide for SMBs or the quick fix HR guide for SMBs?

7:20Daniel McGraw:And let's say you're promoting, let's say I was trying to push out an email framework. Would it be called email framework for 2026 or the simple email framework for 2026? Or if it was a skincare sale. It's not your skincare sale. It's your glow up skincare sale. You can throw in literally one modifier word, do an AB test, see the impact it has on your conversions. This isn't like an open rate or click through rate. This is conversions. It could not be easier to try that.

7:51Jay Winebrenner:And I also think that in any tests that you ever do in marketing, there should be only a slight modifier like that. There should be something that is testable. You can't have two more modifiers in a test. You can't have a whole sentence changing on both things. That's why I think even in subject lines, the way to do it properly is like capitalize one word and one and lowcase on the other one or change a word, the first word or the second word, put stop, put emoji and test those little things. Because if you test the whole subject line, yeah, maybe one will open. But what did you learn from the test of that?

8:33Jay Winebrenner:You're never going to use that subject line again. But it's easy to use something that, okay, caps work better. Emojis work better. These type of action words work better. You need to have some slight modifier, not big modifiers when you're doing A-B tests.

8:51Daniel McGraw:Yeah, great easy use of Chachipity or whatever you use. Just go on there and say, this is my offer. What are one to two word phrases that I could use as modifiers for this offer title? And it'll give you a bunch of them. Couldn't be easier. I am telling you this will have a radical impact on your actual conversions. All right, Daniel, back to the beginning here, handling work stress. I started, you're gonna make fun of me. I'm gonna see what you say to this. uh i started a few weeks ago uh meditating in the morning every time i wake up in the morning now and before i look at my phone i do a 10 minute meditation am i the weirdest biggest nerd now

9:32Jay Winebrenner:of all time what do you think no that's not the first thing you do though uh no it is what do i do don't you go and go burn your eye i stare at the sun i stare at the sun yeah and then yeah i stare at the sun for a minute uh sometimes the sun's not out yet though because it's so early

9:46Daniel McGraw:So I look for something outside and then I do a 10 minute meditation and then I get going. Is that the lamest thing?

9:53Jay Winebrenner:I used to, I used to work for this company, Snack Nation. That was like all into that stuff. So for a year I would do everything. I would like AB test. Like if I go vegan versus this and this diet, like what would happen? Or yeah. So it's not, but I don't know where this came from. Maybe now that you sold. because i thought i was gonna drop dead on my chest

10:17Daniel McGraw:not even meditation yeah no what else can i do i'm doing all this like weird stuff i want to go

10:24Jay Winebrenner:get acupuncture are you using headspace or using oh i'm using i was using headspace i just tried

10:30Daniel McGraw:i'm now using the peloton app they have a lot of they have a lot of that's actually really good even if you don't have a peloton yeah i agree i'm gonna go on the peloton i just use the app for meditation. It's great. I know.

10:41Jay Winebrenner:It's just like, that's the, one of the smartest things they did is they, um, like they just had that. Cause I remember using the Peloton like seven years ago, like my heart rate go all through the roof and not the last one.

10:55Daniel McGraw:They're like, you're in 7 ,000th place. I'm like, this sucks.

11:00Jay Winebrenner:Well, this has been so informative. Everybody, you guys, I know you love hearing our stories of, now the goal today is go do a five minute meditation. It's going to be good for you. And till the next one. Later.

11:19Daniel McGraw:Daniel, come on, man. I got to get back to work. Get out of there. While he's still in there, this is Jay. Check out my podcast, Do This, Not That for marketers. Each week we share really quick tips on stuff that can improve your marketing. and hope you give it a try. Oh, here's Daniel.

11:35Jay Winebrenner:He's finally out. Back from my bathroom break. This is Daniel. Go follow the Mark and Millie podcast, but also tune into this series.

11:43Daniel McGraw:It's once a week, the bathroom break.

11:45Jay Winebrenner:We talk about marking tips that we just spew out and it could be anything from email, subject line to any marking tips in the world. We'll talk about it. Just give us a shout on LinkedIn and tell us what you want to hear.

11:57Daniel McGraw:Peace out.

11:58Jay Winebrenner:Later.