Childcare SPECIAL: Your questions & problems put to Sec of State for Education Bridget Phillipson

23:57Why is it 38 weeks a year? Most working parents work more than 38 weeks, and holiday care should be a funded option for all schools until an age the government deems it's appropriate for kids to be left unsupervised for a period of time. Rhianne, or Ryan, I'm sorry, I don't know which the name is, why are the 30 hours free childcare only in term times? Ours are spread like most, but what it really means is they only actually get 22 hours, because if you put 38 hours times 30 and you spread it over a year, it's 22 hours. Why are you expecting parents to stop work when their kids are not at school?

24:31No, and I have experienced this system as a parent too, so I do understand how it works and what that means for parents. Again, I mean, it was the last government made the decision to make it term time only to align with schools. I think there is a question. Why? Because that was the provision that was put in place for schools and they matched it. I can't speak to the rationale of what happened. But you are now in charge. Absolutely. But I appreciate now I can make decisions in these areas. All of this, both, you know, we talked about the thresholds in terms of entitlements, the complexity of the system, term time only, how all of that works.

25:06I want to bring all of that together, think differently about how we deliver a system of childcare support for parents. As I said, we have had to focus on getting all of the support in place for the big expansion in September, which has been a really big undertaking. You know, lots more staff needed, lots more places needed. But once we get beyond that, you will hear a lot more from us as a government about the wider reform that I will bring to the childcare system, dealing with many of these points that I can't really kind of get to grips with now, but I am determined to sort. Rebecca, what do you think about what you're hearing?

25:36I think it all sounds good. But for instance, as soon as the government rolled out that they were going to start funding younger children, our prices were hiked at the nursery. And that was because they found out how much they were going to be getting to cover that and it wasn't going to cover it. And so to try and make it fair, they sort of rolled it out to all the parents and they've added those costs back onto the parent. And so for me, again, as we said before, it's not a benefit to me, but I'm paying more. And I think Rebecca's point of the knock-on impacts of your policy. So both she as a paying more.

26:16And Rebecca, are you using tax-free childcare, by the way? I am, yes. So I get childcare vouchers as well. OK, so you're on those schemes. So you're getting some extra support there. Another one here, man, stay-at-home parent at risk of not being able to get preschool place as all will take 30 hours working parent funding from two years they won't receive funding until the term after so basically she's saying you know we don't get any support and your scheme has squeezed us out as getting nursery places because there aren't enough nursery places and we had nearly a thousand questions when people knew you were coming on there aren't enough nursery places there aren't enough nursery places there aren't enough nursery places was the echo that tumbled throughout what do you say to that i completely accept that there are big gaps across the country have been big gaps and the need to address places and that's exactly what we've been getting on and doing it it's looking good for september in terms of places and staffing but i'll be upfront about it not every parent will get the first choice place that they want so i'll be completely frank um i can't guarantee that but we're working really hard to make sure particularly in parts of the country where there aren't the places available more come on board that's why from september more nursery classes are going to be opening in primary schools We've put money into that, which will really address some of the challenges that we face in places like the North and the Midlands, where there often isn't the private market to give parents what they want.

27:39Private sector providers have got a really important role to play, but often schools can provide the kind of term time offer that some stay at home parents would want who don't want to pay for extras because they don't need the extras. The question or a point here from Eve talking about nurseries dictating how you can use your funded hours so the hours aren't convenient to your work schedule. Nurseries then charge stupid amounts outside of funded hours. So what you earn going to work only just about pays the nursery bill. What's that all about? I mean, nurseries have to try and manage what parents want and how it fits around parents with how they manage their staff.

28:17The one point I would add around what nurseries can and can't insist on by way of charging is that we have issued guidance that's restricting now what nurseries can do where it's connected to the funded hours. So they can't insist that, for example, nappies and consumables are a condition of taking up the government backed hours because that risks parents not being able to take up what they should. And there was also a legal judgment that made that case clear. So that means parents could provide their own, obviously, rather than have to use the one supplied by the nursery. Yes. So it can't be a condition of taking up the funded hours.

28:52Nurseries can offer other things, but not if it's a condition of the funded hours. And that is going to really help parents as well. And they also can't do, you know, I mean, if you wanted to really jemmy the system as a nursery, you could say, OK, 9 to 11 is funded hours. 11 to 12 isn't funded hours. 12, you know, 12 to 1 is funded. One to two. And you could be they're not allowed to do that either. But who polices that? so most operate pretty straightforward models that you would kind of expect and sometimes it's a question of for example you would take some if they're all if you only want to take up the funded hours of the 15 hours you might just take mornings only or afternoons only and then if you want extra or you're funded for extra that's how they would deliver it now nurseries obviously including those who are private businesses do have flexibility in terms of you know their model how they operate but we've been really clear that there has to be transparency around that so we're We're also going to insist that providers publish their charging policy, what they ask of parents, so that when parents are making choices about which nursery or which provider they want to use, they can really have all of the knowledge and information available to them.

29:54So Eve's obviously had some bad experiences. To whom should she complain? If she suspects they're not playing cricket, then where does she go with that? So in the first instance, speak to the provider and try and sort it out. If that doesn't work, the local council can provide support around this too. And if that doesn't, and they can escalate that if needed, if needs be. But local councils have got a crucial role in making sure this happens. But there was also a High Court ruling around some of, I think, what Eve is talking about in terms of where providers were insisting that you had to, that the nappies had to be paid for as part of, for example, part of your funded hours.

30:28That can't happen. So a couple of questions now that all fall in the same theme. Funded hours for nine months old come into effect on the start of the term after your child has turned nine months old, not when your child turns nine months old. So two on that. Amanda, why is it only three start dates a year, term dates? It's very unfair for children who turn nine months early April having to wait until September the 1st to access their nine months funding. Also very unfair that it's the providers who have to make this clear to disappointed families. And Joe, baby is due early July, as we both work full time.

31:02We're very happy to get hours from nine months. Although if baby is born in July, funded hours aren't available until 14 months later in September. this means we'd have to find money for five months or leave work hoping he's early I mean hoping he's early I think says everything that I mean it is an anomaly in the system their child could possibly be 14 months old before they're getting any help I'd have to check that last one because I'm not entirely sure on that point but certainly it would be longer than it could be 12 months 13 months so I think it's a fair challenge I'll be honest it is a fair challenge this is part of the system that we've inherited.

31:37I do want to look at all of this. I mean, we discussed a number of complexities, threshold issues, anomalies with the system. I think we do need to consider how we simplify it and make it more accessible for parents, absolutely. And that's, you know, that issue I hear quite a lot. Yeah. I mean, even if you just doubled the number of starting dates in the year, it would suddenly close the gap so much more easily, wouldn't it? Yeah. Marie's question, it's a straightforward enough question, is how do you expect nurseries to continue to run when their costs have gone up? Wages have increased by over 10%.

32:06NI is now hitting them, that increase. Utilities, you know, costs of living going up. But funding from the government has only increased by 1%. So the costs are going up by 10%, but your funding from it has only gone up by 1%. There's a shortfall. So I think she's talking about the increase in the funding rate, which has gone up, but not perhaps by as much as Marie would like. And I do just want to stress that I think private nurseries do a fantastic job and are a really important part of the system. But in addition, it's the other elements that I was just talking about, the£75 million expansion grant that will be allocated through local councils that wouldn't be in the number that Maria's just used, and also the doubling of the early years' pupil premium.

32:48So again, a big investment in putting in place support for families, but also making sure that providers are getting the help that they need. But this is£8 billion as of September. It is a really big sum. and I won't dwell on the politics of this too much, this isn't what I'm here to talk about, but as an incoming government we face lots of challenges about the state of the public finances and what we could prioritise and where we spent money and to increase by more than£2 billion going into this year, the amount of money we're putting into childcare, taking us to£8 billion is a really significant investment when you look at the wider backdrop about some of the pressures that are there and the reason that we did that is because we know that it's critical that parents get that support, that childcare is available for more children across our country because it's really important in terms of their development, the rest of their lives.

33:36But also there is a strong economic argument about giving parents choices about how they work, the hours they work and what's right for them. And for me, it's about parents having those choices, making decisions about what's right for them. But of course, you know, working with providers to make sure that the system works as well as it possibly can for them because ultimately they are the people that deliver that brilliant education for our children. We can hear from a nursery owner. Gordon, go on. My question is, I know you want to support early years and you keep putting, saying these big numbers that are coming through.

34:03But the big challenge that we have is that costs, labour costs, which are up to 70 percent of the costs of nursery, went up by 11 percent this year. OK, so you have the NI and the minimum wage. It went up by 11 percent on average across the board. OK, but your funding on average went up by 3 percent. So therefore you want to support early years, but there's an 8 percent gap on this year alone. Now, I know that you say lots of extra funding. How do nurseries survive when you keep cutting the funding? We're 8 % short this year. How do you do that? You've got to match the minimum wage and the national insurance of the year.

34:42And you did that after that was announced. And therefore, every nursery in the whole country has got massive funding gap this year because you effectively cut their funding. So as I said earlier... That's the problem. Yeah. Sure. No, I understand that. And nurseries, including private nurseries, are critical. I do think it was right, however, alongside that. Do you accept his premise that you've cut the funding? No, we have increased the funding. No, you haven't. My funding is 8 % short this year because you gave a 3 % increase in funding. Yes, overall, the funding is greater because there are more children going through.

35:15You're asking, overall, the sector is bigger. We accept that. But my nursery and everybody's nurseries who's listening is 8 % down on the funding relative to the wage increases. And per child is the only way to count it, really. Absolutely, per hour, per child. And therefore you are cutting the quality of early years education because you're not matching the minimum wage and national increase, which is 70 % of our costs. That's the basic and that's what you won't answer. So we are putting, I hear what Gordon has to say, but we are putting extra money into the system. There will be more money going out through local authorities around the early years expansion grant and the early years pupil premium, those increases there.

35:56But I do think alongside that... And the expansion grant mainly goes to school nurseries, not private nurseries. Yeah, it's not just for school nurses. It's not just for school nurses. It's the majority, though. And then we're having greater competitors, so you're trying to push out the private nurseries. And every single person that phones in will say that. Well, you need to support us, and you need to turn around and say how absolutely amazing our sector is. Good. She has said what amazing your sector, but I accept there hasn't been anything in there. I'd like to know, Gordon, what would you ask the Secretary of State to do specifically?

36:24What specific support do you want? Every single year from now on, whatever the minimum wage and national insurance increases are, you have to match that with the increase in funding. You know what it is when you set the funding rate, okay, every year, and you have to do that for us. Otherwise, the quality of early years education just goes down, down, down, down, down, down, and it's a race to the bottom. Bridget, can you do that? I will certainly take that away. I mean, we have increased the funding rates and we have increased the money going in. But 3 % by 11%. OK, let's get her answer. But I do hear what Gordon has to say on this.

37:01And I do take the concerns of the sector very seriously. I do genuinely believe that people like you are doing a fantastic job. But I do think it's also right that alongside support that we put in, there are increases to minimum wage to make sure that workers get a fair deal too. But I hear what Gordon has to say. I do want to make sure the sector gets a fair deal. We have to rep around. You've just said 80 % of childcare is being paid by the state. There's a national minimum wage increase and there's an increase in national insurance contributions. And you're the prime funder. So surely you have to ensure that those funds are paid for by the state at the same time.

37:34And the matching lease those rises. It's not an unfair ask, is it? Absolutely. But as I say, we did. The£75 million expansion grant does respond to some of the pressures that the sector are feeling. and that will go out through local authorities. And the early years pupil premium is there for all providers. Nick says, can you ask please, why do you think nurseries are putting on extra charges? Do you think, so this is you Secretary of State, do you think they are greedy or just trying to survive due to the increase in wages, national insurance and utilities? Because of course this has happened at the same time as an increased cost of employment with national insurance going up and utility bills.

38:07We have to survive and we are penalised for accepting funding. Any other business is governed by their own and not nurseries. We are dictated by their government. Why do they not treat nurseries the same as schools? No rates, able to claim VAT back. Hope you get some good answers, but please don't tarnish all the nurseries the same way. A lot of nursery providers don't like you very much. I need to be honest from what I've been reading. Well, that's a shame because I think they're doing brilliant work. I think there are fantastic private nurseries out there. I should also mention childminders who are an important part of the system as well.

38:36And provide great flexibility for parents as well. I think there is a question about the balance between support for providers and what parents would expect around transparency. And I do think it's right that given that 80 % of childcare costs after September will be funded by the government, that we've got some transparency around what's going on, that parents can make informed choices, that the issue we've been talking about in terms of charging guidance, parents being able to provide nappies, that helping with cost. But in terms of what we're doing to support the sector, I do appreciate that there are staffing challenges.

39:08We're putting in more support around training, But there is a bigger question about how we better align early years in the school system, because, you know, there's a gulf between them and working more closely will be critical. And again, I'll say a bit more on that later on this year, in addition on the funding element. So that would be more what you want children to learn when they're in early years, like basic maths and that type of stuff. Yeah. And there's a lot of good work that's going on around that. But how we can better support the brilliant people working in early years to really have good access to training, support and development, as well as questions around pay.

39:39because early years is where you make the biggest difference to children's lives. And yet we don't give enough support to people who are doing that. So that's a big area of priority. In terms of the funding, by September, this is£8 billion a year. So it's a really big and significant investment in early years and childcare. But I do recognise the pressures that providers are under. That's why we have announced a£75 million expansion grant to help with creating more places in September. Alongside that, the early years pupil premium is the extra money that goes in to support children from less well-off backgrounds.

40:11We've more than doubled that. That's the biggest ever increase. And that's to make sure that providers are able to put in place those childcare places for children who will benefit the most from that. So I do recognise the pressures. We are putting in place extra support. But there are limits to what government can do. And we are in some cases talking about profit-making business. That is absolutely right. They are profit-making businesses. Sometimes private equity. I mean, you go right from, you know, Small someone who's just got a very small nursery right up to big conglomerate funded nurseries, don't you?

40:41There is big variety within the system. I think in some ways that is a strength, but in other ways there are some challenges there. I mean, I've visited lots of fantastic private nurseries, family-run, independent, including in my own part of the world in Sunderland, and they are amazing alongside Childminders. But it's about, I think, the choice and availability for parents. On childminders, Lindsay said, I'd love to see them treated with the same regard as nurseries and early years educators. We'll soon be an extinct profession, given the chronic underfunding and all sorts of rules, regs, stipulations, and ratio, planning permissions, etc.

41:17Childminder ratio is a big complaint. So we have made some recent changes to help childminders around being able to work together to deliver more capacity, but also some of the changes around childminders being able to use non-domestic premises to deliver their services. I think childminders are a brilliant part of the system. They provide flexibility, including for parents who might work shifts or irregular hours. And my experience as a parent was I used a private nursery, but I also at one point we had a fantastic childminder, Lauren, who my children love, remember to this day, that for lots of parents is a really great offer and childminders are critical.

41:55Those are nice words and I appreciate and I can see that you're passionate about this. But let me just repeat the end of Lindsay's question. We will soon be an extinct profession with the chronic underfunding and stipulations in ratio and planning permissions. Are you actually practically going to do anything to help? We are making changes. So the changes around allowing childminders to operate from non-domestic premises to work together with others to increase their capacity in what they can do. But we are thinking more about how we can support childminders because we've seen in recent years a big drop in the number of childminders.

42:24And I know for many of the people that I represent who might work shifts or they work in the NHS, regular hours that come of a nursery aren't what's available. And also what I saw as a parent was the lovely home environment that childminders offer that can be really wonderful in terms of children's development. So I'd encourage Lindsay and other childminders to work with us to make that change happen. I'm going to go to Suzanne, who said on a similar issue, we still provide the perspective. When are the 30 hours free going to be available for parents to use against nannies? I'm presuming Suzanne is a nanny.

42:56Too many of us, yes, are being made redundant because free childcare is offered elsewhere. Surely that just ends up putting extra pressure on nurseries and childminders. Any thoughts of allowing it to be accessible to nannies? That's what Suzanne wants to know. To answer Suzanne directly, we don't have any plans on that front, I'm afraid. Why? I mean, there's a different kind of arrangement, isn't there, in that, you know, nannies will often be employed directly by parents. And my understanding, and I'm sure you'll correct me if I'm not quite right on this, is that there are other ways in which you can access support to think about how you might.

43:29I don't know, for example, around tax-free childcare, if that can be used against nannies. I can't remember off the top of my head. They would have to be Ofsted or equivalent registered and regulated. So I'm not sure that would. I think that tends to be quite rare. I'd have to double check too. Let's move on to a different section now. I want to go on to childcare for older children. Gail says, there's a huge focus on getting the early years right. But once they turn 11, all those lovely holiday clubs, et cetera, stop or are very limited. Current school structure does not enable working parents of 11 plus without a network of relying on networking and friendship groups.

44:00Why is there no funding in 11 plus when you're not illegally allowed to have your child at home not supported? I'm not sure. I think the law about child supported is a reasonableness rather than an age test, isn't it? I think there are... Age-depending, I think there are various kind of... Recommendations isn't strong enough, but clear guidance about age appropriate. But generally, 11-year-olds at home all day by themselves isn't something we particularly want, is it? No, my child is only a little older than that and I wouldn't have left her. So I understand, I do understand. So let's just go.

44:30In the old childcare voucher system, which is where you basically got, we'll call it a 20 %-ish top up on your childcare, similar to the tax-free childcare, you could use that if you're paying up to age 16. Tax-free childcare is age up to 11. So one of the things I would say to anybody listening now, which people don't often realise, if you only pay for your kids to go to summer schools, you know, after school clubs, if your school is, or if your child's school is running support clubs, which are effectively childcare during the summer when you're working, as long as they're Ofsted or equivalent registered, you can get tax-free childcare for that.

45:03And all the other support functions can work. Universal credit can be used on anything Ofsted registered. But universal credit is up to 16. Why is tax-free childcare only up to age 11? I didn't design it, so I'm not sure. No, but you are in charge of it. But I am in charge. You're quite right. I think what this discussion has really illustrated is the many complexities in terms of how the system has evolved over time. There have been bits added on, but it hasn't been dealt with as a coherent hold. Now, I'm not going to be able to sort all of the kind of around school and wraparound and holiday provision all in one go, because that is a substantial undertaking.

45:41But I do know that it's a challenge for lots of parents. I know it's particularly a challenge for lots of lower income families too and that's why the Holiday Activities and Food Programme does also put in place support in holiday times for lower income families and there is some great support out there. Councils will publicise that. That tends to be for children on free school meals, doesn't it? Yes. And just because I think it's worth it, you were on free school meals, weren't you? Yes. Yeah, so you understand the background that that's coming from? I do and yeah, I spent part of my childhood on free school meals.

46:11My man brought me up on her own So even when she was working and I was earning more and I was no longer on free school meals, it's always tight when there's only one earner in the household. So, you know, I'm a long way away from that now and I know how lucky I am. But I do always have in my mind the kids that I represent as well. Sunderland's not an affluent part of the world and there are lots of challenges people are facing and they want to get on and do well for their families. But the breakfast clubs that we're putting in place that are starting to roll out from April will make a really big difference.

46:38there is additional investment going into supporting schools to create wraparound provision now that isn't all going to be free provision but making sure that it's at least available because in some places parents just really struggle to get any form of wraparound at all but the breakfast clubs are going to make a really big difference 750 that have already opened from April but right across our country to really help parents at the start of the day when do you think that'll be getting to more universal when would you like to see that being a more universal provision Well, we've got legislation going through Parliament at the moment.

47:07The Children's Wellbeing in Schools Bill is where we're legislating to create 30 minutes of breakfast club provision for all children in every primary school. I want to go as quickly as I can on that. Funding is a challenge at the moment right across public services, but I want to get that rolled out as quickly as possible by the end of the Parliament. But again, it all stops at 11. And I think that's something... You've got an 11 or 12-year-old, they're still not looking after, they're still a child. And I think, I mean, it's interesting, we could press a button tomorrow, change tax-free childcare into the working family childcare top-up, much better name, and say it goes to age 16.

47:40And that would provide a little bit of extra support going back towards a similar to the parity of the childcare voucher system. You can write that one down, it's fine. I've made a mental note for my further discussions with the Chancellor, don't worry. On SEND, special educational needs disability, Alison says she wants to know about childcare for those children with special educational needs who aren't catered for at all. Her daughter's 14, there's been no holiday care, no after-school care, at any point. She needs an adult at all time. So nobody ever considers families like ours. I could probably do a whole hour talking about the SEND system in addition to a whole hour on childcare because there are lots and lots of problems exactly of that kind, but including across the school system.

48:21It's a big area of priority in terms of the change I want to bring. But councils can provide some support to support families, such as in the case you've just described, to access childcare, including in the holidays. But I know it's not easy and there is extra kind of separate and extra support that goes into providing provision for children with SEND. But there is a huge challenge in terms of getting to a much better system overall for children with SEND. It's not working at the moment. I hear that loud and clear from parents. And we've got to have a much bigger focus on good outcomes for children with SEND because we talk about the impact of early years on life chances.

48:59Children with SEND, their outcomes just aren't good enough at the moment. And we had similar from Paige. Can you ask what they put in place for children who can't access education due to additional needs? What can be done to support the families who need and want to work but struggle due to the shortages in SEND provision and even PRUs? Yes, funding is a crisis for younger years, but about primary school aged children who are in SEND for mainstream, but not SEND enough for a SEND school. So actually they can access education, as you say. There's an enormous challenge around support for children with SEND.

49:29One element of the breakfast club's rollout that we're making sure we build into that is how we ensure that they are accessible for all children. So we are also piloting them in special schools as well as in mainstream schools. And we want to make sure that including in mainstream schools, when they're rolled out, children with SEND are able to access that. So there's a lot of work going on about how we do that. But there's also some of the schools taking part in the scheme are special schools. So we make sure that we're providing a system that works for all children. Thank you very much, Secretary of State, for joining us.

49:56It was really important to sit down, try and not be too political and get through some of the conundrums that are going out there in childcare. And whether people like the answers or not, I'm very grateful that you at least came on and wanted to engage with them. No, thanks very much. And I just really encourage parents to go and have a look at the Child Care Choices website, see what they're entitled to and take up the support that's available if that's right for them. right well I've just stepped out of Adrian's studio to go to a neighboring studio having done the interview with the secretary of state normally at this point I'd be recording all of my podcast extras but I'm not going to do them today because well if you've been listening throughout the podcast then it's childcare you're interested in and I think well there's enough in there for you to think about without adding anything extra on the back but I did want to do a few final thoughts when I asked Bridget Philipson to do this interview I was in a private meeting where I was discussing, as I often do, some of the agenda issues on student finance and childcare.

50:50And she was talking about how she thinks childcare wasn't understood enough. So I said, well, come on the podcast, let's talk about it. But the invite was quite a specific one. When you meet politicians, they have lots of different hats. They can be a constituency MP, they can be somebody who's championing their party. But when you meet a secretary of state or a minister, they have an executive job in running the nation. I mean, literally, they're a member of what is technically called the executive. And in her role as Secretary of State for Education, she's effectively the chief executive of childcare in England.

51:22And the state is paying for 80 % of childcare. So that is a really big job. And it was in that context, I wanted the podcast to happen. And I hope you think we've achieved that. Rather than it being the political point scoring idea, my aim was twofold. One, to try and make sure people understand what childcare support is available to them and the challenges available where there are, the challenges that are out there where there are challenges. But also I wanted the Secretary of State to understand what challenges people are facing on childcare. And you heard many times through the podcast are saying, I'll take a note of that.

51:56I'll add it on the list or I'm sorry, we haven't been able to do anything yet. And I think there's a level of acceptance that this is a supertanker that will need turning around for some of those points. I was especially pleased that we got Gordon, the nursery owner, on as a caller. And for those listening to the podcast, I want to just explain, break the fourth wall, if you like, of what really happened. We originally had a woman called Marie who was due to be on representing nurseries because we'd had so many questions from nursery owners, and many of whom can be quite angry about what the Secretary of State has done, and I wanted that to be a part of the show.

52:31But when it came to it live, we couldn't get in touch with her. So all our plans had gone wrong. We had to move on from the section about provider issues. And then with three minutes to go in the pod, Gordon had obviously got in touch and the producers had brilliantly managed to get him on air. So we got a nursery caller. Now, when you listen to it, I've asked the producers to put that in the bit into the pod where it makes sense, which is the stuff where we're talking about what the different providers are saying about nursery provision. So it will all run seamlessly. But in the reality of doing it, there was a little bit of panic.

53:04and we had to squeeze it in right at the end. But it's very important to get that message across. And I think that the dialogue between Gordon and the Secretary of State and the anger Gordon was showing is representative of the anger many nursery owners and runners are feeling. So delighted that we got that in there. Ultimately, the big judge of this. And if we're generous to the Secretary of State, many of the things that were asked about were things she said she wanted to improve, but you have to do it step by step in turning the supertanker around. So the real question would be, in two or three years' time, if we listen back to the pod, how many of those issues will have been addressed then?

53:40You never know, I might send myself a delay send email now to look at it again in two years' time and maybe, assuming she's still Secretary of State then, invite her back and we'll do a catch-up and we'll put some of these past clips to her then. And hopefully, in a wonderful Nirvana world, it will have all been fixed.

54:01And that is it for this week. If you've enjoyed it, please tell your friends that you've been listening to the Martin Lewis podcast. And if you know someone who's interested in childcare, why not suggest that they have a listen to this too? Because there's a lot of important information or even potentially somebody's thinking about having children in the next few years. We tend to put out a new episode every Thursday. Do subscribe to keep up to date and then hopefully your pockets will be pleased with you. Back to the normal type of pod next week. See you then.

54:30I got meals, I got to pay, so I'm going to work hard, I'm going to live, I got miles, I got to feed, so I'm going to make sure everybody eats. Martin Lewis is the founder of MoneySavingExpert.com. But of course, other consumer and price comparison websites are available. You can get in touch with Martin's podcast production team by emailing martinlewispodcast at bbc.co.uk. The offers and rates mentioned in the podcast are correct at the time of recording. However, if you are listening on demand, it's worth double checking as details can date. Remember to subscribe on BBC Sounds and leave us a review however you listen.