Harvard Business School Professor: How to Become More Confident, Influential, and Communicate Better

23:05I can't be vulnerable, but I've seen firsthand that she struggles, and that really has solidified to me what I call the extroversion illusion, which is that we tend to think equate talkativeness with going deep and opening up. They're really not at all the same thing. So we love extroverts because they're gregarious, they're talkative, they have a really positive affect, right? They're often in a good mood. But when it comes to revealing the really deep stuff, think about the extroverts in your life. They're probably no different than the introverts in terms of how much they reveal or don't, right?

23:38So revealing is really a different thing than talking.

23:42Mel Robbins:I love that distinction, because when you bring in the word open, how open are you? How much do you actually share versus the blah, blah, blah, blah, blah? Yeah. And I would say that the people that are the best revealers, the best sharers, are the ones that are the most flexible. They have the most disclosure flexibility. So they have a wide range. They go from extreme openness with their most trusted confidants to like extreme guardedness when the situation calls for, right? So they're really nimble at moving between these extremes. That's an important distinction because when you first kind of dive into your work, you might think, oh, okay, I just got to be super vulnerable, a completely open book, I got blah, blah, blah.

24:27Mel Robbins:And it's both extremes. It's knowing when to be open and when to be guarded. So how do you know the difference between being the kind of person that tends to just be shy or introverted versus being somebody who's closed and is under sharing and connecting with people? That's a great question. I think that you need to look to yourself first and do a kind of audit of, I think a place where this shows up very saliently is in one's relationships, right? Like your spouse, your relationship with your spouse. How much do you share with them? Do you really feel like they know you? Do you feel like you know them?

25:09How much are you talking about your feelings versus logistics? You do kind of an audit like that.

25:15Mel Robbins:What are some of the things that you would notice if you start to think? And I'll just share this in case it's helpful as you're listening or watching us. So I would say, God, we've married About four or five years ago, Chris and I started seeing a therapist. And one of the most shocking things is somebody who's very talkative. And I'm married to somebody who is way more introverted and up in his head and a thinker. And it was extraordinarily fascinating to see that we, even though we were side by side, lots of logistics, doing life together, having fun, in terms of our experiences of life and in terms of our connection and our marriage, our therapist uses this term, you two are two people that stand next to each other, but you're sequestered in your own experiences.

26:20Jeez.

26:20Mel Robbins:And what was really unbelievable about it is that learning how to be more open with one another, which is different than just blah, blah, blah, blah, blah about your day, is a skill. Completely. And I feel like in the last four years, learning how to be more open with Chris and having him also lean in to learning how to reveal and even talk about the things that he's thinking about or feeling or whatever has brought us so much closer because, and then I think about the last 26 years and we've had completely different experiences in our minds and bodies because we weren't really connecting over it.

27:02Mel Robbins:We were just doing life together, if that makes sense. Mel, I think we're like living in a parallel universe because I have had the exact same experience with my own. We have a marriage therapist. He's amazing. You know, I started realizing I'm making all these assumptions about and and these tiffs we get into it's because we're not actually communicating how we feel yeah and so there's so many things that that that like opening this this box of like what your spouse is thinking and feeling is just so so helpful for marriage and staying together and it prevents these stupid tiffs because it's never about the you know the dishes in the dishwasher or whatever right Dr.

27:42Mel Robbins:John I love everything that you're sharing with us today. I know as you're listening, you can relate. You're probably thinking about somebody or yourself. You might be thinking about your partner, a friend, a coworker, even maybe one of your kids who really deserves to get all of this information and these life-changing takeaways from Dr. John. So while you have that person in mind, I want you to send them this episode. And we're going to take a quick break to let our incredible sponsors shine and share a few words, but stay with me because this conversation is only getting more powerful because Dr.

28:18Mel Robbins:John has so much more to share with you and me. Stay with me.

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31:24Mel Robbins:Additional terms, conditions, and restrictions apply.

31:32Mel Robbins:Welcome back. It's your friend Mel Robbins. Today, we are talking about the idea that you're not oversharing. You're saying too little. You're learning about the skill of openness and vulnerability and how to have more courage in your life and the benefits of doing so with Harvard Business School professor, Dr. Leslie John. All right. So Dr. John, let's just jump right back into it. You know, you also in your work, you talk about disclosure decisions. Can you explain to the person listening and to me, what is a disclosure decision? I love that. So a disclosure decision is simply a decision of whether to reveal something or to not reveal something.

32:16So many of our disclosure decisions ride under the surface. We don't even realize we are making these decisions. So often, we just kind of default to silence. We don't even consider the possibility of opening up. And so what I'd like to do is I'd like to do a little demo here to help us understand this a little bit. A day in the life of disclosure decisions. Okay.

32:39Mel Robbins:So you're going to walk us through the average day and you're going to point out all of these subconscious moments where something is happening in your interpersonal life and you just decide not to say anything. Yes. Oh, I have a feeling it's going to be painful. Okay. It's just going to be an average boring day, but that's the point, right? Okay. Average boring day. And Dr. John is reaching down and she is pulling up and there's a basket and there are yellow ping pong ball things like little wiffle ball things that she has in the basket. There's one right there. Okay, you hear it. And why don't you walk us through what's about to happen?

33:16Mel Robbins:And there's a big mason jar. Okay, so I'm going to walk us through the day in a life of disclosure decisions. And what my purpose here is I want to make visible something that is typically invisible in our lives. And that is the sheer number of disclosure decisions we actually make unknowingly. And this is also helping us really consider, are you open and are you revealing what's happening? Or are you staying closed and you're undersharing what's happening in your life? Yes, yes. Okay. Yes. Okay. And, you know, as you're listening, you will be able to hear the impact of this. But as you're watching on YouTube, you're going to see this.

34:01Right. So I have this mason jar here. What this Mason jar represents is it represents the things that you thought but did not say. In fact, you didn't even consider saying them, frankly. So, okay, and these are going to be your thoughts. Each one of these little balls are the thoughts. Each one of these balls is your thoughts, the unsaid. Okay, so you wake up in the morning, you roll over in bed, you hug your spouse, you say, I love you. And then you think to yourself, oh, I feel so crappy. I had the worst sleep.

34:40So you can hear that's your first thought, feeling that you have suppressed, really. You haven't thought of it as suppression, but we're trying to bring awareness to this. And then you think, geez, I'm going to be really, it's going to be hard to regulate my emotions today because when I'm sleep deprived, that's really hard. Next one in the ball, in the jar. Then you go over to the bathroom, you're standing beside your spouse, you're starting to brush your teeth. You look at yourself in the mirror and you think, I look fine, but I don't love the way I look. You think, you know, I really thought I would feel younger at this age.

35:14I feel older than I thought I would. Then you both go down to the kitchen. Your kids are frolicking and scampering about and your husband or your spouse starts making their lunch for the day and the The spouse says to you, hey, what do you think they want? What do you think they want for snack? And you say, just give them something. Stop, just you pick. Spouse says, whoa. And you think, oh my gosh, I'm just so exhausted. I just need a little bit more leeway today because I'm so tired and I really just need a hug. And I've got this big presentation coming up and I'm so overwhelmed. You don't say any of these things.

35:50Instead, you're now in a fight with your husband because your husband's like, what? Or your spouse, what? I'm doing something nice. You get in the car, you start driving to work. Your father calls you. You think, oh, geez, what? What's my father doing? Because you realize that he's driving. My father is driving. My father shouldn't be behind the wheel. You're like, should he be behind the wheel? I don't think his eyesight is good enough. I don't think he should be behind the wheel. But instead, you just say, hey, dad, let's talk later when you're not driving. You get to work. Your assistant says, how are you doing?

36:21You say, great. What you don't say is I'm feeling overwhelmed. I've got a big presentation today. You get into your office. I could go on and on, right? You get into your office and your work bestie comes in. They say, how you doing? What's up? What's on tap today? You say, I got a big meeting, big presentation. I'm super excited. What you don't say is I'm feeling anxious. Maybe we could go through the beginning together. That might help me. And on and on. And I'm already full here. And it's only 930. Exactly. Like you can think of then later in the day, your boss comes, says, congrats, great job on the presentation.

36:53And you say, thanks. But what you could have said is, you have no idea what that means to me. I was super anxious and I crushed it and I'm so proud of myself. And maybe you could give me more opportunities just because I love it so much. And then it's like career advancement, right? So the point here is not to, I'm not saying we should say all of these things out loud. That would be chaos. There's lots of good reasons why we withhold. We're being kind. We don't have the time to get to it. We're being strategic. You know, our assistant asks us how we're doing. We don't want to bog them down. We want a quick, easy, breezy.

37:26But our work bestie, like we can't tell them we're feeling a little anxious. They could give you a hug. They could say, oh, I've been feeling the same way. They could, they could say so many things. Almost anything they say will be helpful.

37:39Mel Robbins:You know, what's really powerful about this example, whether you're just hearing the Or you're watching all of these unsaid things pile up as you feel how weighed down you are. And what I would love to hear is what is the implication in terms of your energy or your mood or your own health, your happiness from constantly withholding and undersharing. Mm-hmm. Right. So there is a lot that we know about undersharing, withholding. It's really bad for our mental and physical health. So for example, when we keep secrets, we tend to ruminate about them and that decreases mental focus. It literally lowers your IQ on tests when you're holding secrets.

38:41It also is associated with decreased wellbeing. Like people who hold secrets, they have lower objective measures of physical health. So there's all kinds of health issues. And I'm just getting at the like physical mental health. I'm not even getting at the missed opportunities of what your relationship could be and the problems you're causing by not opening up, right? Well, if we just take the example, like the missed opportunities

39:12Mel Robbins:and what you just said is connection with the person. First thing, I said, I had a scary dream. Oh my God, I'm getting really... It's like you're missing connection and reassurance. Yes. When you look in the mirror and you were nice to yourself by just saying you're old, I'm normally like, God, you look terrible. I don't say I'm filtering a little bit. So if I say to Chris - I still have acne. I'm in my forties. What's up with that? Apparently your hormones are still working. That's what's up with that. But when I say to Chris, I just feel really ugly lately. I just feel unattractive. He always reassures me.

39:42Mel Robbins:And it feels like it has less of a grip on me. Yes. In terms of work, you're missing out on getting the support that you need. And the other thing that kept really striking me, and I don't know if it really hit you as you were listening or watching, to Dr. John is how every time that ball dropped, I felt the weight of somebody feeling like everything was on their shoulders, that it was all up to them, that nobody, that they had to figure it out on their own. And it was interesting to watch that because I think that's been one of my big stories that I've been working to change, which is, oh, it's all up to me.

40:23Mel Robbins:And a lot of that gets reinforced when you don't open up about what you're dealing with or you don't open up about the emotions that you're feeling. You just bury it and bury it and bury it and bury it. In fact, something in my household I'm working on as well, and I said to Colin, I'm really exhausted by the number of decisions I need to make every day. Not disclosure decisions, but like snack, da, da, da. And so just telling him that, he couldn't read my mind. And now he's just making decisions. I said, I would love for you to just make the decision. If I disagree, I'll tell you. But so that, I have a dear friend of mine who for Mother's Day, she's so in tune with herself.

41:05For Mother's Day, she asked to make zero decisions. It was so awesome. Doesn't that sound so blissful? But this is also part of the point, which is that in order to do this well, you have to have self-awareness. You have to really understand what's going on in your mental state. And so even things like sharing your feelings and all the things, the scientific research on how opening up, whether it's to a therapist or writing it down in a journal, that is extremely therapeutic for us. It helps us process our feelings. It helps us feel better. in order to do that well, you have to have insight into your psychological state.

41:45And when I, when I started doing this, and this is why, again, I'm telling you I was a guinea pig because if, if like, I'm a recovering emotional illiterate because I went, when my therapist, I was, I don't know, I was fetching about something and he's like, well, how do you feel? And I was saying cognitions, you know, like I feel trapped or whatever. I feel like this doesn't make sense. he's like those are thoughts a feeling I'm like then I literally asked him what is a feeling like phd what is a feeling and then he handed me this thing called an emotions wheel which I printed a version of that in the book which I found so helpful which helps you to really figure out what you're feeling and if you start with a really core feeling so for example the way the wheel works is you start off with, you just ask yourself, the version I have in my book is like super, for me, emotional illiterate.

42:40So it starts off with a very simple question, like thumbs up, thumbs down, positive, negative. Okay, I got that. Then the next layer out of this circle is getting a little bit more refined, which is simply, is this an emotion that's very arousing? Like, is there a lot of energy behind it or is it more of a non-arousing energy, like a calm? And it turns out there's four combinations, right? So you can have a positive that's really active, like joy, excitement. You can also have a positive emotion that's low arousal, like calm. The same is true about negative things like anger, rage. Those are full force active, but like boredom would be something that's more.

43:23And then once you get those you can get, I won't go into deals now, but the next ring is like anger. Okay. Is it disappointment? Is it rage? Right. And you can literally like, oh, that one, that one, that one, that's me. And once you start doing this, you expand your emotional vocabulary, which helps you understand yourself better, which helps you communicate better.

43:41Mel Robbins:Well, what's helpful about that very simple construct, am I feeling good or bad? Yep. And am I feeling like I want to do something about it? Or am I like energy? Or am I feeling low about it? That just even considering that, if you're laying in bed and you're like, I love you, honey. And then you're like, wait, I feel bad right now. And it's like bringing me down. That's a way to access in that like something's up. Like I just feel really low energy today. Can you give me a hug? Now you just - I see what you're saying. Like the energy can serve as a cue to help you understand for sure. For sure.

44:17I love that. Yeah.

44:18Mel Robbins:Let's just give like a really specific takeaway. So let's say you listen to this episode or you watch it, you go home at the end of the day. Yeah. Your partner's like, how was your daily? Fine. Or what's wrong? You're like, nothing. I don't talk about it. Do you have any kind of easy, quick ways to make yourself a little bit more open, even if you're exhausted and you don't want to talk. Yes. Well, so if you're exhausted and you don't want to talk, you can defer it and say, I'm exhausted and I don't want to talk. But thank you for asking. Let me have a drink or let me have a relaxation time. Okay, great.

44:57Love it. Number one. But if you are ready to engage, you're going to do two complete the sentence. Okay? You're going to do two. The first one, which is the most important, you're going to say, I feel. You're going to complete that sentence. And then you're going to say, I need, and you're going to complete that sentence. The I feel is even more important. Sometimes you don't know what you need and maybe you riff a bit on what you need, but I feel is really crucial. It's really crucial because it is more vulnerable than a thought. And because it's more, and we're talking about a personal close relationship, when we show some vulnerability, it invites care.

45:39It's also not debatable the way a thought is. Thoughts are dictated by right and wrong and logic. And so if you say how you feel, feelings are feelings. Like, they're valid. Now, it might not be as easy as it seems because sometimes you list adjectives instead of thoughts, and we've kind of been there, that you want to really get into feelings. I think that's very easy. Like, I think this is so simple.

46:03Mel Robbins:Okay, good, good. Because if you think about how was your day and you're like, I feel overwhelmed. Yeah, totally. Or I feel proud of myself. Yeah. I don't even know what I need because I'm so overwhelmed. Right. Like that's a different conversation than fine. Yeah. If somebody says what's wrong and you say, I feel kind of confused about how I'm feeling right now. I don't even know what's wrong. Yeah, I don't know how I feel. Perfect. Yes. So maybe we should Spanish, the word fine. The third rule is don't say fine. I like it because it's simple and we can all take those two sentences. I feel I need.

46:38Mel Robbins:Exactly. Yeah. And you can do that with a work colleague too. I feel and I need. And I like I need too, because the reason I like I need, it helps you get you in touch with yourself of what you need and think about what you need. And it helps to, because your partner can't read your mind, say what you need. And so some examples may include, I need a hug. I need you to just listen. I don't want to fix. I just need you to listen. I need you to be on my side. I need you to help me see if I'm thinking through this the right way. I need you to help me figure out what I'm missing, right? I need, you can finish that in so many different ways.

47:23I need multiple things.

47:25Mel Robbins:Yeah. Yeah, it's really simple and powerful. Dr. John, I have so many more questions that I want to ask you, but let's just pause for a second because this part of the conversation is one of those moments where I know as you're listening or watching, you're thinking, oh, wait, I do that. I stay silent. I smooth it over. I tell myself it's not worth bringing up. And I don't know about you, but I'm already starting to replay a lot of what she's saying and replaying a lot of things where I'm like, why didn't I just say something? I mean, I thought it was being easygoing when really I'm just avoiding the truth.

48:07Mel Robbins:And now I'm learning the weight that that creates for you. And we don't have to live like that. So while you sit with that, text us to somebody who deserves to hear this. Text us to somebody that stays silent and you want them to be more open. And we're going to take a short break. We're going to let our sponsors shine. Do not go anywhere because Harvard Business School professor Dr. John has so much more to teach you, including she's going to explain why saying the thing you're afraid to say builds trust, not fallout. Stay with me.

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51:07Mel Robbins:Welcome back. It's your friend, Mel Robbins. We're here today with Harvard Business School professor, Dr. Leslie John, talking about the benefits and the skill of being open. All right. So Dr. John, this is where I wanted to go next. You know, you hear a lot in the news right now about loneliness. And how does just kind of having these surface level interactions of people and not really opening up about anything or not being curious about the people in your life such that you're wanting them to open up, like how is that contributing to the disconnection that you're feeling? Yeah. So I think that surface level connections, surface level interactions give this illusion of connection because they have all the trappings of real connection, right?

52:02Like they've got the smiling, even if it's a little forced, they've got the eye contact, the shared experience. So they've got a lot of that trapping, but without the social risk, which is opening up a little bit, these types of superficial interactions, they end up making you feel, especially this introvert, socially full, but emotionally malnourished, right?

52:27Mel Robbins:Oh, that's an interesting distinction. So your cup is full. I've had enough. I need to go home. Stimulation, too much for me. But you actually don't feel anything. Right. Yeah. Oh, I love. So the stimulation of it versus the actual richness of the connection. Yeah, yeah. And so then the question becomes, well, how do you do it? I don't know. What do we do? Right. What do we do? Okay. So in general, I would say you want to go, so you're not going to say, so imagine you're watching your kids play soccer. You're not going to all of a sudden go deep randomly out of the blue. Like that's not what we're doing.

53:02What you're going to do is you're going to go, you're going to think of it as going one layer deeper than what you ordinarily would do. Okay. Give us the sentence. So what do you do? Right. So now let's break it down even more. So what you can do is instead of thinking as we're watching our kids, instead of commenting on what is happening or what happened, like, oh, they're having so much fun. Right. Try to think about, a cue is to think about what does that mean to you? So for example, you could say, oh, look at our kids are having so much fun. You know, I don't even remember the last time I laughed that hard.

53:38When did you last laugh really hard, like a good belly laugh? And that does two things. So that's getting it interesting and deep right away. It's also staying pretty positive, right? We're not getting into like, when's the last time you cried? We're not getting dark, but we're prompting some reflection. And this is like ninja level. I did another thing. I'm flattering myself. Really, I'm taking one of my best friend, Alison Wood Brooks, who's been on your show, one of her fundamental findings, which is we don't ask enough questions. So you want to say this kind of what it means to you. When's the last time I laughed that hard?

54:13And then the great thing here is you're passing the torch. Oftentimes people naturally reciprocate and they'll say, oh yeah, me too. But if they don't, you can prompt it by saying, when's the last time you had a great laugh? And then you're off to the race. And you're not trying to get for a deep friendship, but you're like, this will be a fun, meaningful conversation. It's not just small talk.

54:33Mel Robbins:Well, it's true, because I think most of us, as I put myself in that kind of scene, it's like, oh, it's a beautiful day. Right. You know, oh, how are your kids doing? Right. Oh, you know, what are you doing this weekend? Like, it's just all this stuff right here. So look at what's happening and think about what it's triggering in you and then turn and reveal. Yeah. And then ask someone's last time you felt like that. Yeah, exactly. Like, I immediately thought about the fact that, oh, watching your kids, it made me, you know, I ran track in high school. I really miss being on a team. Did you play team sports?

55:06Mel Robbins:Totally. Yeah. I got it. Wow. I want to read to you from your book, Revealing. This is page 85. Research speaks to wide-ranging tolls of concealment. For example, the more frequently people think about their secrets, the more likely they are to experience feelings of inauthenticity, lower relationship satisfaction, and even worse physical health outcomes. Talk about the cost of secrets. Yeah. So I think the main issue with secrets is they are really preoccupying. They really, we think they're inert. We think they're neutral, but they really, really sneak up on us in occupying our psyche. And one of the tricky things with secrets is that they represent kind of an unresolved loop in your mind.

56:04Because if you have a secret, you kind of haven't really resolved. You're constantly monitoring, should I say, should I not? And it's like you're kind of perpetually ruminating over this disclosure decision, essentially. I'm not saying we should reveal all our secrets. Some secrets are important to be kept. I want to dig into this only because

56:25Mel Robbins:I feel like they're in the context of your research. There's a difference between saying this information is private. I'm not ashamed of it. I am just, I have boundaries with who is going to know this information and who's not, but I'm not holding this information over my own head. Right. Secrets feels like something that you use the word unresolved looped in my mind that you are holding over your own head and that you're wrestling with. So a secret, an example might be that you have fallen out of love with somebody and that you don't know how to tell them. Oh my gosh. And you have this secret that you are planning on breaking up with this person, but you don't know how.

57:10I had that. Yeah, I know. It's so hard. And it's so hard. I think that you hit the nail on the head, though. Like, being private, having boundaries is one thing. And the difference there is that you've made a decision that this is my boundary. With a secret, it's unresolved. Like in that case of like, you really need to tell this person somehow because it's not good for either of you. But how? And that's, I think, a lot of the case with secrets. Most, all the time, it's not a question of whether to reveal, but it's a question of how, to whom, and when. Because even if it's just you writing in a journal that secret, that is going to make you, that is going to help you feel better.

58:00It's going to remove this rumination. It'll resolve it in certain ways because there's actually really interesting processes that go on in the brain when you reveal to yourself on paper or out loud. So somehow it's got to be revealed. And you said how, to whom, and when.

58:16Mel Robbins:Now, can you talk though about how the research shows that when you're open about feelings, it can be more persuasive than making a logical argument, even at work. Yes. Like, why do people listen more or care more when your emotions are involved? I know, we think emotions, they're the filler. But emotions are information and they're really credible. They're really credible because they're hard to fake. So they also are riskier than sharing thoughts, which also makes them credible because you really mean it if you're willing to take the risk to share. some emotion? Oftentimes the answer is reveal.

59:02So reveal why you're crying. Say, tie it to your passion for your job. I am crying because I care so much about the stakeholders of this company that we better get this right. So linking it to passion then can make it more compelling instead of being, especially like with women, gender, we worry about that too. Like, oh, she's just over emotional. So if you're able to do that, then it can be quite powerful. But you, of course, you know, you have to be careful because it is a tricky, it is a very tricky thing. but I, you know, I've had my own experiences ugly crying and I had a, I don't know if you want me to tell the story, but I had a, when I was a baby academic, I gave a talk at a very fancy university, which has a reputation for being very tough on speakers, read a-holes to speakers, and they were asking me difficult questions, which I expect, which is good science, but what was bothering me was that they were asking them in a belligerent rude way right and and interrupting me so they were they were being rude and finally I just couldn't hold back anymore and I just you know I was trying like I was smart to try to not cry right these are people I'm a baby academic they're in charge of my fate because they're gonna like write me letters to say if I'm any good when I'm out for promotion so I was really trying but I just couldn't I couldn't So I'm just full on ugly crying, full on on stage.

1:00:36So yeah, in front of like, there's like 30 people, senior academics at this university. And I'm, it's not, I write about it in the book. And I always, as in the book, I say, this sounds more composed than it was. You have to remember that the sound effects are right. Like as I'm, but so I start bawling. And then I think to myself, I'm like, they need to know why I'm crying because otherwise they're going to think that I'm just like, I can't take hard scientific questions. And so I stopped and I said, I'm stopping, stop. Because I need to tell you why I'm crying. I'm crying. I'm not crying because you're asking me hard questions.

1:01:15I'm crying because you're being belligerent. I'm crying because you're being rude. And I didn't stop there, which I maybe showed up. But I was like, okay, I've lit this thing on fire. So why not? And, you know, you may, I might've even pointed a finger, you may not know this because you, all you see is the way you are, but you know, you have a reputation. It's not okay. And it has to stop. What happened? Well, so then they, they, they were quiet the rest of the time. They were scared of me. I did get a few apologies afterwards. And then, well, first of all, it was not career suicide that I thought it would be.

1:01:54In fact, one of the faculty who was there later revealed to me, you know, 10 years later that he wrote a really great supportive letter for my promotion. And the other thing, though, that I thought was really cool about it, other than the mortal humiliation, was that a couple of friends who went there a few weeks later, they were actually reasonable to them. And so I thought maybe, maybe I helped just a little bit. And this is related to something, I wouldn't call this exactly that, but something I call a catalyst confession. So the catalyst confession is when someone who is in a leadership position comes out and says something really bold.

1:02:40Like Magic Johnson in the 90s, he came out and said, I'm HIV positive. And at the time, this was the gay disease. This was highly stigmatizing. And he really, really shaped the conversation in a positive way. In fact, there have been studies that have looked at, like kind of pre-post his announcement, and it was concluded that he probably caused about 900 additional people to get tested. So I think the opportunity for revealing in leadership, yes, at the micro level, you can get feedback. We can also talk about how you can, you know, gain more influence. But I think the real magic of it, speaking of Magic Johnson, is in the ability to like use your position to like destigmatize and to to really that's real leadership in my book.

1:03:25Mel Robbins:You know, I am. It's interesting that you call that story humiliating because it may have felt that way. But from the outside hearing it, it sounds courageous and liberating because you called them out. Well, so the distinction is you saying this is why and it's not because of me. It felt. It's because of you. Yeah, and it's clear that change did happen. And I love that you brought in the fact that you have a reputation for doing this. Yeah. And it has to stop. So Dr. John, I want you to speak directly to the person that's here listening or watching right now. If they take one action based on everything that you have shared with us today, what is the most important thing to do?

1:04:08It is to share your feelings. And now that you've listened to this podcast, You know I'm not being trite. You know that there's a lot of heft in that. Feelings are data. Feelings are really, really valuable information. Dr.

1:04:23Mel Robbins:Leslie John, what are your parting words? There's a study by a Cornell psychologist, Tom Gilovich. He's looked at the things that people regret in life, and he's found that 76 % of the things that people regret in life are the things they did not do. The things they didn't say. Then there's research by a palliative care nurse by the name of Bronnie Ware. She has spent many, many hours with people on their deathbeds, and she wrote a book chronicling what are the things that they tend to regret. The number three regret, the number three most common regret of people that are dying is, I wish I had shared my feelings more.

1:05:06Mel Robbins:Share your feelings. Yeah. Be more open and honest. I am so excited that you are here in Boston. Professor and Dr. Leslie John, thank you, thank you, thank you from coming across the river and being here and sharing everything that you did today. Thank you so much. Thank you for listening. I am so excited to see what you do with this conversation, who you share with. Actually, sharing this episode with somebody that you want to be more connected to is a way that you can be more open. I listened to this. I learned a lot about myself. I want to connect deeply with you. Let's take a listen. Let's talk about it.

1:05:47Mel Robbins:I can't wait to hear what you thought and how you're going to apply this. And because Dr. John said that we should do one thing, which is start by sharing our feelings. I'm going to share my feelings with you. As your friend, I want to tell you that I love you and I believe in you. And I believe in your ability to create a better life. And if you ask yourself, what might I be missing out on? By not revealing, by not sharing, by not being open. When you really consider what you're missing out on, I know that you will create a better life by being more open and by being more curious with the people that you deeply care about.

1:06:26Mel Robbins:And now you have the research and the roadmap to go do it. Alrighty. I will see you in the very next episode. I'll be waiting to welcome you in the moment you hit play.

1:06:39Mel Robbins:We are in the middle of a loneliness. But today's guest, but today's, but today's guest, who is a Harvard Business School professor who, who studies what the, which will completely change, which completely changed how I think about silence. So without further ado, help me welcome. Oh, sorry. So without further ado, because this conversation is only going to get more power for us. Oh, my God. We're here today talking about the idea that you're, we're here today. Fantastic. Okay. Excellent job. Excellent. You did dynamite. How do you feel? Thank you. Great. Thank you. You guys are such pros. Well, you did dynamite.

1:07:23It was so fun. It's so rewarding.

1:07:28Mel Robbins:Oh, and one more thing. And no, this is not a blooper. This is the legal language. You know what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend. I am not a licensed therapist, and this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Got it? Good. I'll see you in the next episode.

1:08:10Mel Robbins:This segment is sponsored by Expedia. Tell me if this sounds familiar. You decide, okay, that's it. I'm taking a vacation. And then you hop online to book it. And suddenly, oh my gosh, you have so many cabs open. And it's so overwhelming that now you feel like you need a vacation from trying to book a vacation. That's what makes Expedia so great. It is your one-stop shop where every single detail of your vacation is organized in one reliable, easy-to-use place. Flights, hotels, rental cars, activities, and things to do, everything in one place. Expedia makes vacation planning easy so you can focus on what matters, enjoying yourself.

1:08:57Mel Robbins:And as your friend, I want you to enjoy yourself. I love to travel. Some of my favorite memories go all the way back to these little trips that I took with my parents and my brother as a kid. On the Let Them Tour this year, I got to visit Australia and New Zealand for the very first time in my life. I'm 57. Both countries, all the people we met, pure magic. I even got to feed a giraffe, which has been on my bucket list forever. Travel makes you feel alive. And I'm not just talking about flying halfway around the world, just traveling to a quick weekend getaway, seeing something new, exploring a neighboring town.

1:09:39Mel Robbins:It all counts as travel. In fact, there are three research-backed reasons why travel is one of the most important things you can do for yourself and your happiness and your health. And I wanna break them down for you. So let's just start with reason number one, why you need to travel more. It adds more meaning to your life. In fact, one of the biggest regrets that people have near the end of their life is that they didn't travel more. We had Dr. Carl Pillemer on the Mel Robbins podcast not long ago. He's a professor at Cornell, and he's interviewed thousands of people in their 80s, 90s, and hundreds about what really matters in life, what makes life meaningful.

1:10:21Mel Robbins:And there's a theme that he has heard in this study over and over and over again. At the end of their lives, people regret not taking the trip. Dr. Pillimer said it perfectly when he was on this podcast. Life is incredibly short. Stop waiting. Book the trip. That's reason number one. The second reason that travel is one of the best things that you can do, it is so good for your brain. Seeing new sights, hearing new sounds, trying new foods, walking new streets, it's a workout for your mind. Your mind loves experiencing new things. And then if you noticed every time you travel, what happens? You come home clearer, more creative, better able to solve problems and ready to adapt to whatever life throws you.

1:11:07Mel Robbins:See, when your brain is making new connections, you become this upgraded version of yourself and that happens when you travel. And the final reason that travel is one of the best things that you can do for yourself, and this one might be my favorite, just planning the trip can make you happier right now. That means that you will feel the benefits of a future vacation starting today. When you give yourself something to look forward to, you put a little spark of excitement into your life right now, long before you're going to pack your bags. I want to give a big shout out again to Expedia for sponsoring this segment and reminding you how important travel is in your life.

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