Organize Your Life & Home: The Simple System That Gives You More Time, Energy, & Control

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22:59Mel Robbins:Welcome back. It's your friend Mel Robbins. And today you and I are here with Clea Shearer and Joanna Teplin, the powerhouse duo behind The Home Edit. And they're teaching us their shockingly simple and fun way to edit, organize, and declutter your life. So, Clea and Joanna, here's my next question. So let's say I look around at my house, from the garage to if you're lucky enough to have an entry or a mudroom, to the kitchen, and all you see is like, oh my God, what's the first step? Okay. Okay. The very first step, let's just talk about a mudroom, right? Let's just say. Okay. A mudroom or an entry, whatever you have, especially if you have kids, it is what one of the places that we call Grand Central.

23:42It is where everyone comes in and out of. And it's where things get dropped and things get left. And it's like, well, this is my project pile and this is where the kids' backpacks are. And so the first thing you need to do is assess, does everything belong here? Yes. You know, like, are there things here like— Drinking socks? No, why are those there?

24:02Mel Robbins:Because I have a 21-year-old son. All right. Well, that walks in the door and drops on the floor. And we'll get into what to do with fan members. We'll get into that. And we're going to come back. We're going to stay on task. The very first thing you do is say, does all this belong in this space? And many, many times they don't. Things go, they should be in the garage. They should be up in someone's bedroom. They should, you know, if there's a project pile, let's make a spot for that. So first, just assess quite simply what belongs here, what doesn't. That would be considered the edit. I'm already picturing, and I bet as you're listening, you're doing the same thing.

24:37Mel Robbins:I'm in my Grand Central at my house, and I am mentally inside my grandmother's cabinet that sits next to the door, and I am mentally inside there going, why do we have the dog food in a igloo cooler? Why is there a kind of vice thing that belongs in the garage? You are literally walking me mentally through the fact that half the stuff in that entry doesn't belong. Doesn't belong. It doesn't belong. And you know what? And a lot of times people don't do the organizing is because there's too many steps to put something away. And that's something we get into later too, which is like removing the barriers to entry and having simple systems so that things make sense.

25:15That is also, that is exactly what I was going to touch on next.

25:17Mel Robbins:So as we're in though your version of Grand Central, you have a studio apartment or you have a big mansion. Right. And you're visualizing this, you're asking, does all of this belong in this space? That's right. What am I doing with it? So, okay. So let's say now we're removing the things that don't belong, but there are still plenty of things that do belong. And why are they all on the floor? Okay. Now we believe very simply just you can't fight the tide, right? If people come in through this door, people, if your kids come through this space, they are going to put their shoes here. Their backpack is going to go here.

25:52You're never going to get them to carry it to the room, right? We know that. So don't fight the tide. Create a home where it's going to end up. For instance, if shoes are going to come off, all you need to do, put a shoe bin there. At least it's contained. It's not all over the floor to trip all over. If jackets need to stay there, then put hooks on the walls. Let's work vertical. Let's use the storage space vertically, especially in a small space. We are always hunting for spaces, and looking up is usually one of the best spaces. Exactly. Always look up. Add hooks. Add a floating shelf. There are external.

26:24Internal storage opportunities. Carts and credenzas and all kinds of things that you can bring in that add storage opportunities. And very simply, again, very inexpensively, adding hooks and a bin for shoes can be such a solve for an entry, for a mudroom, for anything like that. The goal, I don't ever want to see things just laying on the ground. No, nothing goes on the ground, in fact. Unless it's a rug, it should not be on the ground. Right. Or a shoe bin, you know, a basket. But again, the shoes are in the basket. That's right. It can be a very, very inexpensive thing. I don't care if you live in a studio apartment.

26:56In fact, if you do - You can probably find something for free

26:58Mel Robbins:on Facebook Marketplace, right? There's tons of options there. And I'll back up one second. If you're walking in and there's 12 backpacks and you have two children, let's talk about that. Why do we need 12 backpacks here? Have we just been keeping them as the child getting a new backpack every single year? Okay, that's fine. Again, we're not gonna focus on you bought, now don't get into your head with the landmine. Why did I buy a backpack every single year when they could have been, let's not go there. Because they pressured me and everybody else got one. That's right. and then they're like crying in staples.

27:24You know what? And you did your best. You did your absolute best at the time. But why are we doubling down now on them having two backpacks or 12 backpacks? Okay, let's remove that. Let's decide which backpacks do they actually use. Is there ones with holes? Let's get rid of those. Is there ones to donate? Let's have a donation. I was going to say, donation is a huge part of taking away the guilt. Taking away the guilt in what you bought your kids and what you bought yourself. I mean, even in a junk drawer, if you're like, oh God, but like all these markers, I don't know. You know what? You know who could use them?

27:51Schools would love them. Teachers would love them. Kids need back. It is one of the essentials that they need to be able to go to school. There are so many things we can do with the items that we feel guilty about, quote, getting rid of. Let's not have the guilt on top of everything else. You don't need to do it. We all have too much guilt.

28:09Mel Robbins:I want to make sure I'm tracking because where we're starting is you pick a place that's not a mental landmine. That's right. Which really narrows the focus for me and my house. I think there's a lot of mental landmines. But I love that we're just going to start with Grand Central. Yeah. Okay, we're just going to start there. Okay. And I love that you're basically saying a couple rules I want to make sure I'm following. Does all this belong here? Right. And if it doesn't, then remove it or donate it. Yep. You also said nothing belongs on the floor except for the rug or your dog. Right. And so if you're looking for places, bins where it goes, look up.

28:47Mel Robbins:Vertical storage is always an option. Behind a door, over a door. Behind a door, over a door. Hooks are super cheap. Yep. And don't fight the tide. That's right. You got it, Mel. Stop turning Grand Central into an Architectural Digest photo shoot. Yes. And just embrace Grand Central. Yeah. Embrace it. Got it. If you know that every day, whether it's you or a partner, whatever, everyone gets the mail and the mail always goes right down on the counter. Can we talk about this? All we need is a simple bathroom. That's right. You need a tray. That's it. A tray, a basket. That's it. Let's talk about paper clutter.

29:24Why do the entryways, the kitchen, like why do the counters? Flat surfaces. Because it's just asking. You're just like, oh, this is a space I can put things on top of. So we also try, when it's possible, to not have additional flat spaces for things to get cluttered. Like open flat spaces. A flat space is fine. But just an open, empty spot is asking for clutter. No, that's where you put a tray. and you have the tray designated for mail, for keys, for wallets, whatever it's for. It's a home for something. It's not just an open, endless sea of whatever wants to go there. What do we do about the Kitchen Island?

29:57Mel Robbins:Because what drives me crazy, maybe it drives you crazy as you're listening, is, okay, we've gone through Grand Central. You enter into the kitchen and I swear to God, I spend an hour every day picking up my husband's glasses, my son's keys, the mail that somebody just put there, Or the other, like they've emptied their pockets. It's the second Grand Central. It is. The kitchen island is? Yes, it is. The kitchen in general. That's exactly right. So am I supposed to embrace that it is? So the same rules apply here. That's the good thing is the rules are the same. Okay, so now we're going to see what doesn't belong here.

30:30Keys don't belong on the kitchen island. They sure do not. But they could belong in a tray. That's exactly right. They don't just belong on the kitchen island. Basically, here's one rule that we just really embrace. We do not like a free floating item. It should have a home. If this pen is just like right there. It's on my kitchen island right now. It doesn't belong there. Have a pen cup. Yeah.

30:55Mel Robbins:Have a drawer. Have a drawer. You know what I just realized? Is I just realized that I have an opinion about where my husband's reading glasses belong. Okay. Great. Like you just said it doesn't have a home. Yeah. And I'm like, well, it's because I think the home is on his face. that they do not belong at home on the kitchen counter. Same with Oakley's keys. I think they belong in his car or up in his room, but they end up on the kitchen counter. And now I'm, okay. You can't fight the tide. You're fighting the tide. Yeah. So this is the tide. This is exactly what we're talking about. We're not going to fight it because that's just going to make everybody.

31:34It's going to make you crazy. It will.

31:35Mel Robbins:It has made me crazy. And we talk about crazy. Well, this is what we also talk about. A me problem and a them problem. So this is something we really talk about, and it's easy in— I'll give the example of both of our children's bedrooms. Okay. Okay. We ask our children separately. We don't live together. We are married with kids. We aren't married to other people with children. But separately, we both ask that our children make their beds. Well, okay, they most of the time do. It turns out both of us hate the way our kids make the beds. So now I go back and remake the bed the way that I want it.

32:06That's a me problem. They did their best. They made the bed. But I don't like how they made the bed because it's not up to my standard. That's a me problem. For instance, you put a basket down for shoes in the mudroom or entryway. Well, they might just toss them in and it looks a mess and whatever. I want them lined up nicely. That's a me problem. That's right. It's a them problem if the shoes are on the floor, not in the bin. So you have to set up systems that your family, your household, whoever you live with, that it's really simple and that everyone can follow and understand. because if they leave the keys or the glasses not in the home that you helped create, that's a them problem.

32:44That's a them problem.

32:45Mel Robbins:And that's something that needs to be worked on. So I don't have a home for those things, which is why they keep ending up. And that's a me problem. That's right. So I got to create a home. Then you create the home and then it's a them problem if they don't follow it. Oh my God, I love this. Yeah, it's a me and a them problem. Got it. Yeah. This is actually kind of simple. It is. It is. Organizing is simple. Okay, let's talk about editing. Okay. Because when you said, okay, we're not even going to talk about organizing. Let's just talk about first this editing because editing will free you. It will.

33:12Mel Robbins:It's magic. And I also assume editing is how I implement the 80-20 rule. Yes. Absolutely. The any space, only 80 % full, that the 20 % allows me to breathe and editing is the thing that will set me free. You're right. It will. So I'm assuming editing means decide what to keep and decide what to trash. So how do you edit? So the rules for editing. Okay. Okay. An item has to fall into one of these buckets in order to keep it. All right. You either need it, a toilet plunger. You use it, you know, a toaster, spatula, you know, whatever it is. You use it, you know, and you love it. You actually just, like, you're attached to it.

33:54You just love it. It brings you joy for whatever reason that that might be. If somebody gave it to you that you love, it represents something to you that you love. Whatever reason, you don't have to justify it. You just know you love it. It makes you happy. You need it, you use it, or you love it. Aside from need, use, and love, there's one other bucket, and that is sentimental. And sentimental, you might say, well, I love the things that are sentimental. But that's not always true. Sometimes it's just, it's a special item that you just feel like you can't get rid of. Now, there are two rules within sentimental.

34:24Okay. You either need to use it or store it appropriately. When people tell us that this whatever sweater from their grandma is really important or whatever it is, that it's sentimental, and it's just shoved on a back shelf, I question how special it actually is to them because you are not honoring the item. If it actually is special and sentimental, you need to either be like, I'm going to put this in a keepsake box at the top of the closet, or I'm going to have it framed. You have to honor whatever it is.

34:57Mel Robbins:Yeah. But if it's something that you're like, I just can't get rid of it, then you need to honor it and display it or honor it and store it. Now, there's a rule with the storing it. Because some people, everything can fall into sentimental. Of course. It can become a very slippery slope. So what you have to do is put up a little bit of a guardrail and decide, I, in my house, my studio apartment or my huge house, doesn't matter, this is how much space I want to allot to my sentimental value of stuff. So whether it's the size, maybe you have six bins and they're the size of this table. Maybe it's a whole garage full.

35:31But you have to assign a value of how much all the stuff means to you and then decide what's worth keeping and going through that stuff and making sure that it really has value to you. Because there's also a dollar amount tied to the sentimentality. People think about how much you pay in a mortgage or how much you pay in a rent. How much stuff are you just holding on for the sake of holding on that's taking up so much valuable real estate in your house that you could be otherwise have other things or just breathing free air there? Yeah. So these are all like decisions to kind of think through in other ways to make the value seem more rational.

36:00Mel Robbins:So when I go through this edit list, need, I need it. Yeah. I use it. I love it. That's right. And then we've got this little subcategory with a giant red flag called sentimental. That's right. Because this is where we fall into starting to hoard and keep things. That's right. It's a slippery slope. Because you can justify. Absolutely. And so we can correct ourselves by going, okay, well, am I actually honoring it? Yeah. Or is it on display? Yeah. Is it just shoved in the back corner? Doesn't seem special to me. Then it's really not that sentimental. But here's what I didn't hear. Should. Right.

36:34I should hold on to it. Well, the thing is, we don't believe in that. We just don't. If it should, that to me does not equal a desire, a want, a need. It's like putting this like imaginary, well, I should. Shoulds are not powerful. And they feel powerful. that's the thing. They feel so powerful, but they're, what are they? It's not that you want to or that you need to. It's just that you should. I would always question, well, why? Tell me why you should. Is it because you think that someone's really going to come over and look for that tea towel? Because they're not. Like, no one is. I can't believe you just said tea towel.

37:15Mel Robbins:Because I really know. Just was sitting here thinking, because you can't help but listen to you to and start to mentally go through your thing. And so as I'm going to edit, I'm like, okay, need, use. And I was standing in my kitchen and I thought sentimental and I have my grandmother's china. Great. Absolutely. Beautiful harvest pattern. Yep. And it's on display. Great. In a cabinet. That's perfect. I never use it, but I love seeing it. That's perfect. That's exactly right. Do you know how many doilies and broken pieces of costume jewelry I have jammed into a door in my closet because I should hold on to it and then I'm like a bad granddaughter.

37:56Mel Robbins:No, let's talk about that. I don't want this stuff. Like I didn't even know my great-grandma. Like I know the plates mean a lot. That's right. And that's the difference. And that's the difference. When we question, we have to push back on people, right? Well, I feel like a bad person if I'm ditching broken costume jewelry from the 1920s. Absolutely not. Absolutely not. And we always push back when someone says it's special. I want to know why. And I want to know if, again, your china on display is perfect. Look how you lit up when you were talking about the china on display. I have some vases from her that are cut glass.

38:29Mel Robbins:They're a bee. Look how you lit up. And now this doily brings you down. Oh, my God. There's a doily next to the broken jewelry. Yes. And let's talk about this, too. That doesn't mean anything. This is another way to know what means something and what doesn't mean something. Okay. So in part of our process, we like to categorize things. So what this does is allow you to see the totality of a category. So say it's all your great-grandmother's or your grandmother's stuff. What if you brought all of the things that your great-grandmother has ever given to you and put it all in one space and you're able to see, okay, all of that stuff takes up this table.

39:00Well, actually, I love these dishes and the rest of it means nothing to me. Well, you're representing your great-grandmother through the stuff that you love. Why are we holding on to the wall? She wouldn't want you to have a bunch of broken costume junk in a drawer. Look how much you are honoring her and this makes you so happy and this brings you down. And what are we doing here? I know she's dead anyway. Exactly. There you go. And she wouldn't want this. I know. I know her. I know her. But maybe somebody else wants it. Then you donate it. Okay. That gets into another conversation. But I mean, thinking about it, seeing it all together, which is part of our process, even with not just sentimental stuff, but like anything.

39:34You have 40 pens. Do we need all 40? Can you have 10? Right. You know, like, let's see the totality of something to really make those decisions easier.

39:42Mel Robbins:You know, one of the things that I love most about the two of you and how you approach this is it's fun. It's fun to listen to you. Like, I feel so heavy when I think about organizing and clutter, and I do make myself wrong. And so having you be fun and it's practical, I'm excited about it. And I bet as you're listening, you're excited too. And if you've been thinking about somebody who's overwhelmed or embarrassed or frustrated or stuck when it comes to clutter, their home, getting organized, share this episode with them. It's such a gift. There's nothing they need to do. They can laugh. They can learn and feel empowered because everything that you and I are learning is making your life easier.

40:26Mel Robbins:All right, don't go anywhere. Coming up, they're going to teach us the organizing mistakes everyone makes, especially when you go to tackle that landmine called your closet. Stay with me. We'll be right back.

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43:32Mel Robbins:Welcome back. It's your friend Mel Robbins. Today, you and I are here with the extraordinary women behind the mega brand, The Home Edit. Since you've been listening, you now know why they are such a force for positive change. They're making everything easier, and I've just been enjoying this so much. So let's just jump right back in. Now let's talk about the crap that does not fall into that category. And I have wrestled myself to the ground and I've got some things. I've got, let's use the example of pens. I've got 20 extra pens that I do not need. I have clothes that don't fit. I have other things over here.

44:15Mel Robbins:Now I've created piles. Yeah. Yes. And I have piles that are like, okay, get rid of this. Donate this. Okay. Am I reselling that? We have a lot of thoughts about this, as you can imagine. If the piles are categorized and they're all jeans, you're starting the organizational process. You're really two-thirds of the way through. Then we talk about containment. And containment doesn't have to be a bin. It doesn't have to be drawer inserts. I mean, obviously, we like to operate that way. But again, you can do this for free without. Okay. You need to have guardrails for any item that you're keeping.

44:46Any. So if it's denim, whether you hang it or fold it or whatever it is, you only have X amount of space. I don't care if you live in a humongous mansion or a studio apartment. You only have X amount of space. So your items that you keep cannot exceed your space. It's the 80-20 rule. So if you have 20 pens, 20 extra pens in your drawer, you're taking up now too much space. And now you can't fit a pair of scissors because you have too many pens. Well, I can't open the drawer because the scissors are jammed in there. because there's too many pens. That's right. It's always the scissors and the rolling pens.

45:16It's always those two things. Right. And the potato masher. Potato masher always gets in the way. Yeah. But it's about, you have to think about containment. If you're not using drawer inserts or things like that, then you have to just assign a containment kind of in your brain for like, this is where pens go. I can only fit X amount, which means I have to actually get rid of some. Right. And it's the 80-20 rule. And the containment goes back to the categorization because if you can see that you have 20 pens, when things are all scattered all over, you have no idea what you even own. And then you end up wasting money because you're buying it over and over again.

45:48Oh my gosh, it's so true. And then I

45:50Mel Robbins:have 40 pens, not 20 pens. That's right. But if you see them all together, again, this comes back to you don't have time to not be organized. Like once you're organized, you save so much time and so much money. Right. All right. Well, we'll come into the details of the organization and containment in a little bit. First, I want to make sure we understand editing. And we talked a little bit about pens and scissors, let's talk about the junk drawer that we all have that gets out of control. And I would love for you to walk us through a zero-cost way to take the disaster in a drawer and edit and organize.

46:23Well, someone brought us your drawer, Mel. Yep.

46:26Mel Robbins:We actually, I'm so sorry to tell you. Yeah, at this late stage. Did you call Chris? I am so sorry to put you on blast like this. We have your junk drawer. I know this is your show. Oh my gosh. This is your junk drawer. It is. Okay, show it to the audience so everyone can see. No, they don't need to see. Oh my God. So let's, this is perfect because we can go through all the steps right now with you. We're going to, this is going to be the edit. The first step with an edit is you have to take it all out. And there's no way around it. There's no way around it. Let me explain why. Okay. And I'm going to start just going.

46:56There's no way around it because if you just looked in here, whether it's a closet or drawer or whatever, it's very easy to say, this all belongs. This all stays. But when you pull it out, you actually have to make a conscious decision about putting it back. It's active versus passive.

47:11Mel Robbins:Oh my gosh. You know what I've done with our junk drawer? I'm glad you're doing this so now I don't have to do it. But what I love, at least I have a rubber band ball and not rubber bands everywhere. That's right. I will arrange one little bit of it. Yes. Like one little side tray thing of it. And I might pick out the fuzz or somehow the dog hair the old band-aid is in there. Yes. And then I'm like, okay, God, okay, just shut this thing. Right, because you have to do the edit. Look at how much stuff is in there. If you're listening. It's always amazing how much comes out. Oh, my gosh. Duct tape, glue stick.

47:44Mel Robbins:So then. Oh, my God, the card that was missing from the cribbage game last night. There you go. Like, why is this in here? I don't know. One card is not in there. Oh, I know, because we didn't need it for the game. Okay. So somebody put it on the freaking kitchen island. Okay. And then I got frustrated when I was cleaning. Right. So I then put the card in the junk drawer because I didn't want to see it. Oh, my God. Look at the receipts in there. Yeah. So let's. Oh, my God. All those cords and the broken. There are a few things that we can just like this. What is that? I don't even know. I don't even know what it is.

48:15Mel Robbins:It's like a part to something that I don't know. But we're holding on to it. We don't even know. In case I need to find the other part. I don't know. Nail polish. This coffee cup lid. Oh. This doesn't belong in here. No. Oh, my God. The bracelets. I don't even know who those are. seeing, but see what we're doing right now is we're categorizing this stuff. So you can see, even in the little drawer, the totality of each thing. These are like your little erasers. I hate half of those style of pens. I would not use that pen. I've got one chopstick. Okay. Yeah. One chopstick. All right. We've got some sunscreen.

48:47Okay. So there's some office supplies in here. Yep. Here's a little office supply section that I'm putting together. All right. And then we've got some laundry. Like, okay, that could, I could make a case for this. Yeah, so even before we get into, like, do you want these pens or this pen, I think it's just a very even cursory look at being like, okay. Bracelets don't belong here. Nail polish does not need to be in a junk drawer. Tea bags do not need to be in a junk drawer. You're right.

49:12Mel Robbins:But I feel so conflicted because I'm like, where else am I going to put it? No, but that's where. Wait, hold on. Let's actually ask a question. Do you paint your nails in a place that's next to this junk drawer? No. No. Okay. Where would you paint your nails? My bathroom. Okay. Then it belongs in your bathroom. I would sit on the floor of my bathroom. That's where it goes. That's where it goes. This goes in the bathroom. I can only do a good job on my toenails if I'm sitting. That's where it goes. There you go. That's where it goes. On the floor. But here's the truth. Okay. I. Say it. Say it. Say it.

49:44Mel Robbins:Say it. I don't even know why I have nail polish. Do you paint your nails? I don't often get a manicure. I only get a manicure or pedicure when we're taping episodes in Boston. Otherwise, I live in Vermont. Like, I don't know why. I bet I have eight bottles of nail polish lying around in different drawers. Would you want to have nail polish in your house or would you never choose? Okay, we don't even need this. I need nail polish remover. Okay, great. Great. So never buy nail polish again. So what do I do? Because those are full. Then you can donate it to someone? Yeah. Okay. Like a daughter or anyone?

50:16Mel Robbins:Okay, we're going to talk about how we do that because I have a hard time moving from the pile of donating. We'll talk about that. Put a pin in that. But okay, like for instance, this is a list at some point that has been spilled on and you can't even read it because of the water stains. It was probably something that Chris asked me to do and then I spilled on it and I put it then in the drawer because I would come back to it later. Yeah. I'm guessing you either did it or you didn't do it. No, that's dated February. Right. Okay. So we're going to take that out. Tea bags can move to the kitchen.

50:43I don't even like Irish breakfast. Okay. Amazing. I do. I'll take them. Okay. All right. See, you're donating. Duct tape belongs in the garage. Okay. Right. So this is a keep, but it doesn't belong in the junk drawer. And look how much space this takes up. But what belongs in a junk drawer? I'll tell you. Let's ask you. Okay, so is this drawer from your office or is this from the kitchen? This one is for the kitchen. Okay, so in a kitchen, let's talk about the things that you would need. You don't need this in the kitchen. No. Okay. Would you use, if you spill, would you use a Tide pen in the kitchen?

51:12Probably not.

51:12Mel Robbins:I'd probably run upstairs. Okay, so this does not live here. Or I'd take a little bit of the Dawn dish soap. Right, totally. So that goes in the laundry room. This is trash. Yeah, that's trash. Here, I have a trash pile over here. Does a key chain belong in the kitchen? It doesn't even have keys in it. No. I don't even know where the hell that came from. Does this matter to you at all? No. No, it goes. I didn't know what that is. No, it goes. It goes in a donate pile. Now, twine could belong in a kitchen, but do you use it as such? No, because I have a drawer that has twine, wrapping paper, and my scissors for cutting flowers.

51:42Mel Robbins:Okay, so this goes— And it's beautifully organized, which I love. This goes into that. Ben, what about these headphones? Yeah, they're broken. Okay, they go. They must. I blame Oakley. This goes with those things. We don't have to donate everything. If it's broken, it's trash. Okay. Okay. Now, bracelets and hair ties. Hair ties, I would need in a junk drawer. Okay. Okay, great. Great. Perfect. And the bracelets? I don't know who those belong to. They can go. They can go. All right. Okay. Okay, you have a couple coupons. I don't even know what they're for. Cat food. Cat food, he doesn't eat it, so throw it out.

52:10Mel Robbins:Like, noodle needs it. Mel, can we just celebrate, like, what you've already done in five minutes? Look at what you're down to. You're down to things that actually just work. in this drawer. Need, use, or love. That's it. It's so simple. And now watch. We're not going to spend any money. Okay, and you know what? I can do more. Okay. I only like the black pen, the blue pen, and the green pen. Get rid of the rest of the pen. Okay, here we go. They go to a teacher. That was a little aggressive. Okay, yeah. All right. And do you use these? What are they? The little post-it tabs? Oh, yeah. I love these.

52:38I love these. Okay. All right. So, and do you use little panda erasers? Are these just emblems? I do not use erasers.

52:45Mel Robbins:Oh, okay. You do not use erasers? No. I don't need an eraser. Okay, this is empty. Oh, my God. Okay. And where does the mail typically go? It typically ends up on the kitchen island, and then I passive-aggressively drop it on Chris's dress. Okay, that's fine. So it goes there, passive-aggressively or not. It doesn't matter. We'll find you a new tray. We don't have judgment about passive-aggressive behavior. That's not our segment. Yeah, that's not our brand. The mail belongs on Chris's desk because he sits at it five days a week. And then it'll actually get opened and the bills will get paid. That's amazing.

53:17Mel Robbins:Fantastic. And you have a pack of batteries that are contained. And I'm sure you need batteries. I have a different drawer that has batteries in it. There you go. But I don't know. Now that I'm realizing this, I need to do this with every drawer in my kitchen because I've got a bunch of drawers where there's stuff that's mismatched. That's where the corralling and categorizing comes into play. And I don't need you to spend a whole weekend doing this. I could just do one drawer at a time. Right. And that's why the barrier to entry is so low and that's why it's so free. how free do you feel now?

53:44Look, wait until we just put this all back.

53:45Mel Robbins:I feel even better knowing you did it. Like I, no, I, I, I, I know I can do this. You can. You just did. Okay, and then you've got these old box lids that you're using. And that way you don't have to buy drawer dividers. You just use box lids. You absolutely can. Now you have extra, you have extra envelopes. Would you, are you ever? Not get rid of the envelope. Okay. We just need one. I'm starting to feel like you kind of get on a roll here. That's the thing. That's the thing. It's kicking in. It's so freeing. it's like shopping but the opposite it's so it's so exhilarating shopping but the you know what we're shopping for space space you're shopping for space i can see what you mean now about you can't afford not to do this exactly and another thing that i just recommend this is what i would do if i especially if like things need to now move to other places just have a little basket with you so that all of these things just go in the basket and then you just walk around your house you put it in the garage you put it in your bathroom i literally want to run out of here and be like, throw away that mug.

54:42Mel Robbins:Get rid of this. It's powerful. Put this where it is to be. And this is so manageable. And this is why we always say start with a drawer. Because see how excited you are? I really do feel excited. And what I also like about this is I've always made the mistake of thinking that, okay, I got to take the whole weekend. No. I got to take the whole weekend. No. And I'm going to tear apart the kitchen. No, no. I'm going to redo all that stuff. 30 minutes. Take 30 minutes. Yeah. Holy cow. Yeah. And it's as simple as that. One other important rule for someone wanting to start this process. Yes. Just like we did here, do not start and edit.

55:22Do not take out more than you can put away in the same day. Meaning, don't just take everything out of your closet. Yeah. And then what? The reason why we also love a drawer, you can go from A to Z with a very, you know, within 30 minutes. And the great thing is going from A to Z in a small space is the same thing as going to A to Z in a big space. The rules are the same. That's right.

55:43Mel Robbins:It just takes more time. That was so helpful. And the edit's easy. Do I use it? Do I need it? Do I love it? That's right. Awesome. All right. I have more questions. Okay. I'm going to take the drawer away. All right. Let's take all this stuff away. All right. I'm going to take the drawer away. Because I want to go from drawers to other parts of the house. Okay. Let's do that. So let's talk about the big mistakes and drafts. Okay. It's a Saturday morning. Yes. Okay. kids are out, partner's gone. I got a burst of motivation. And now I decide I'm going to declutter and organize and edit. So what's the big mistakes that I'm about to make?

56:19Well, you started saying them all together. Organize, declutter, and edit all at the same time. Let's just start with an edit. Let's start there and let's pick a reasonable space to start with, which are the drawers. So they could be bathroom drawers. They could be kitchen drawers. Let's start with drawers. If this is your first big go at it, let's get you really comfortable and feeling good about yourself. And once you finish that drawer doing the edit, go to the next one if you still have energy. But one by one, we're not going to take apart the entire kitchen all in one Saturday morning when you think you have a burst of energy that's going to last all day.

56:50It won't. We'll just spare you the good news. It will not last all day. It will last an hour until you're in the fetal position in the corner because it's too overwhelming. It's too overwhelming. Again, this whole experience should make you feel good, not bad. You don't want, you should not have any shame. You should not have any guilt. No. You should not be overwhelmed and exhausted. And just get excited about this because it's an opportunity. It's not a chore. Bathroom drawers, also a great place to start. Love a bathroom drawer. Great place to start. So satisfying. Also, it's like the last thing you see and the first thing you see in the morning and the last thing before bed.

57:21And so to start your day and end your day that way feels so satisfying. I am guilty of holding on to like makeup products or samples. It's still like, well, like what if I run out? Or I might want that color. Or, you know, like maybe I'll learn how to use eyeshadow one day. I don't know. You won't. I won't. I think that ship has sailed. But makeup products, they're just so small that you're like, well, I can fit it. Yeah. Doesn't mean that you should fit it. How much more would you rather have the clear space than a peptide lotion you don't know how to use? It's just true. And that's the thing to think about.

57:55do I want the item or do I want the space? And if you get stuck, that binary decision is the best way to get out of being stuck, especially in a closet. Like, oh, I can't decide. Well, do you want the space? Do you want the breathing space? Do you want the extra hanger? Or do you want that pair of jeans?

58:09Mel Robbins:Oh, I am going to be repeating that as my mantra for the rest of my life. It really scares you. Because it's binary and there's no gray area. Right. It's just you You have to follow those rules. You only have so much space. That's right. And I, myself, again, I am ruthless with everything in my house. But I love to shop. I just do. I love shoes. I love handbags. But I will get rid of other items. She is ruthless. So do you have like a one-in, one-out rule? I kind of do. She kind of doesn't, I can tell. No, no, no, no. She has to get rid of, it's usually three in, three out. It's like, it comes in.

58:50Right, right. I'm not quite at a one-in-one-out because I do believe in having space in the closet. Here's a rule I have for myself. I will not buy new hangers. I don't need any more. The hangers are, they completely match the space I have. If I need to add hangers, then I'm shoving things into my closet. Oh. So if I get into a one-in-one-out, that means, like, I'm not adding a hanger to accommodate my new clothes. I will purge. And she's an excellent, she is ruthless. I'm hardcore. Yeah. Wow. Why does mess always come back? It really comes down to putting systems in a situation that is so sustainable and easy and simple.

59:30So when a mess comes back, I generally think it's like, okay, Joanne and I obviously organize. We spend the time organizing our homes. If we create a system that's too complicated or don't put in a system at all, the mess will come back. If you're only tidying up a space and not truly organizing it, the mess comes back. all organizing is, if you really want to keep it as organized as the day you did it, you just have to create simple, realistic systems and set realistic expectations. A lot of it comes down to a me versus them. Is it a me problem or a them problem? I don't even care if it's a kid's playroom.

1:00:07You just put big floor bins for, like, blocks for dolls. Don't have Disney princess dolls here. But people do go down the path because it's easy to do. because you do it one day and you get excited. And then the thing is, it's too hard to maintain and then all the wheels fall off the bus. Like, okay, for instance, for a pantry, we love pantries. We could do a whole episode on pantries. Oh my God, nothing's more fun. Every pantry could be organized and look great by just having six categories, just bins, a simple bin. What are the six categories? It's breakfast, dinner, snacks, baking, cooking, dessert.

1:00:48That's it. Thank you. That's it. And again, if you have the space and this is fun for you to have micro categories, have at it. It can look beautiful. It's so fun. But if you are a busy professional or a busy person just in general, just the six categories and you are off to the race of the organization. Just simple systems. And one of the keys to maintenance is a label. Yes. And again, that feels like it's just an aesthetic situation. And it is not. Labels are a set of instructions for the household.

1:01:18Mel Robbins:I love this. Oh, my gosh. I am going to have so much fun this weekend. What is the hardest thing that people seem to have trouble getting rid of? Denim. Denim? We have had to make many, many aspirational denim categories in a closet because people feel like they're always going to be able to fit in to their old jeans. And I would say just generally clothes. Clothes are so— Clothes are really hard. Because it's the emotional piece that goes with clothes. There's so many triggers in a closet that it's so hard. So going, once you are ready for the closet, just give yourself grace and know that you may come across things that are hard for you to face and be patient with yourself because it is hard.

1:02:01Okay.

1:02:01Mel Robbins:You were masterful in walking us through the drawer. If somebody starts with the drawers, we're doing one drawer at a time. We're getting good. We got the pens. Yep. We are really starting to feel motivated. We got the six different items in the pantry. You got it. We have handled Grand Central. Yes, we're working through the house. Yes, we're working through the house. I'm realizing my systems are simple. I'm able to get things where they're supposed to be. I'm not buying more stuff. I'm starting to feel like, oh my God, I've got more space. I'm feeling good about this. Yes. Now I'm ready for the closet.

1:02:40Mel Robbins:Okay. How do you want us to think? You still need to start super small. Do I have to empty the whole thing out? Not at once. Do not do that at once. So do one drawer? Or one category. Or like one, you know, bank of clothes or whatever. And are there categories? I know it's a weird question. Yeah. Like in the pantry, is there a - Pajamas, workout. Okay, give me the categories in a closet. Generally speaking - The categories like represent themselves. Yeah, so it's like pajamas, exercise, work, leisure, swim, whatever those are, summer, winter, we have seasonal categories. But you don't need to get so granular.

1:03:15No. I would just, if it was me, I would just take all pajamas and throw them on the bed and start matching them and seeing what I like and what I don't like anymore. Right. Just start with really small, simple steps. A closet, take one day a week and just do little, small bits. Do not do the whole thing at once. And it adds up to really, I mean, editing out your closet, I think, is actually the most freeing thing. It is. Because that's the hardest one. And once you do that, again, it's, it's, but acknowledging on the front end, this may be challenging because I'm going to confront certain emotions.

1:03:46Let's just say I'm going to tackle shirts that are hanging. Great. Hanging shirts. It's own category. That's great. Hanging shirts. Great.

1:03:51Mel Robbins:I pull them all out of the closet. All of them. Throw them all on the bed. That's right. Pull it out. Just look at it. Do I want to take the 0.5 seconds it's going to take to actually put this back on the rod? Like, do I actually love this? Or do I, am I never going to wear this kind of tank top ever again? Yeah. You know? And if something creeps up, oh gosh, it costs so much and I've never worn it. Sell it, donate. Okay, let's talk about the selling, donate. Selling is a whole other thing. And that's a barrier to entry. And so we don't want you to get stuck with the selling. There are a few things that if you want to sell your items that you spent money on, that you feel like, you know, I spent some money on this.

1:04:34There are resellers that do the work for you. You know, there are people who do the Poshmarks, that do the RealReal. Really? Oh, yeah. Yeah. There are people who do these things. It's their job. And they just take a commission? Uh-huh. Yeah. And they market it and you drop your stuff up with them? Yes. They pick it up. They do the whole thing. And I would guarantee there's always an exception to a rule here, but I can't think of anyone we've worked with, a single client that has missed what they have purged from their closet. Ooh. they make the decision. And once it's gone, it's gone. You also have these rules in here in your -

1:05:13Mel Robbins:Oh, we have a lot of rules. A lot of rules. No, but I love these rules because they never thought about it. You say invest in matching hangers. Yes. And you also say when you remove an article of clothing from a hanging rod, put the empty hanger back at the end of the rod. Yes. I never do that. I stick it in the middle. No. You can't find it. And sometimes, like, if I do a real big, like, a major purge, like, from all the different sections, I won't take all of the hangers and put them on one rod at the end. I'd put it in their section. Yeah. So that way it's not – doesn't take up so much space on one rod.

1:05:48Mel Robbins:So what if you live in a really small place? Okay. Okay. And do you have suggestions for, like, where do you put things like clean laundry before it's folded? Where do you put your work laptop when it's the weekend? So this goes back to external storage. Like we talked about with hooks, over the wall unit, things like that. A cart is a miracle. It's amazing. What do you mean by a cart? A three-tier cart. They sell them all over the place. We made one at one point at the container store. The container store has tons. Target has tons. Yep. And it is simple. Like a three-tier cart on wheels. A three-tier cart on wheels.

1:06:25Mel Robbins:Oh my gosh, I bought one of those for my son's dorm room. Three-tier cart on wheels. They are the best investment. they can go anywhere. Sometimes they can go in a bathroom. They can go in a kitchen. They can have towels. They can have bath supplies. They can have, you can get the wooden lid that goes on top for your laptop. It's, they are amazing. They're your best friend. Best friend. And you can put clean clothes in them while you're waiting. And you can literally push the cart from the laundry room to your closet. And then the back of the doors, there are some amazing, there's Alpha at the container store, which goes over the back of the door.

1:06:54It's clean looking. You can put shoes on the back. You can put. Oh, that's true. This is your look up thing. So use the vertical surfaces. Yes, we're always looking for vertical space. Vertical space and external storage. A cart is... But see, when you said external storage, I thought you meant outside. Oh, no, no, no, no. Sorry, sorry. Additional storage that doesn't exist already. It's not like built into the house.

1:07:14Mel Robbins:Got it. Okay, that makes sense. Yeah. So how do you know when you've edited and organized and contained enough? Okay, whenever it works. That's how you know. If it works, you've done it. If it's falling apart, you need to rethink your system. And let me say this, though. It's not just falling apart. There is a level of maintenance that's required. Organizing is not a one and done. It's akin to exercise. You can't go to the gym one time. Like, that is not how it works. You don't do anything one time. You invest in your relationships. You have to constantly maintain things that matter to you. And organizing is unfortunately no different.

1:07:50The thing I think people make, I mean, people make mistakes in a lot of different ways. But I think that one thing that is a mistake is thinking about your organizing as a snapshot in time. It is a living space, right? It lives and breathes in your home. You add to it. If you organize your pantry, that's why we think we always want to think about, like, what is the easy solution? What is the system that's simple to maintain? Because that's when things go off the rails. If you put in a system that's, like, kind of too complicated, it's not going to work. It's like exercise. If something falls off, somebody puts in the steak knives into the junk drawer in your kitchen, it's not like, oh, my God, it's over.

1:08:30No, no, no. It's exercise. Like, okay, so you miss two days of working out. Just get right back up there and do it again.

1:08:36Mel Robbins:We talked a little bit about the low bar method for closet. But is there any other examples of low bar editing? Our whole life is low bar. So we have something called a low bar lifestyle, which means if you set the bar low enough, you'll be able to get over it. Yeah. So if the bar's on the floor, you're going to be able to walk over it. Except for nothing's supposed to be on the floor. Except for the rug and the bar. The rug and the bar. But if you set the bar low enough, basically what we just want people to understand is that any amount of effort that they put in is enough. Any amount of energy, of effort, of financing, of whatever is enough.

1:09:17And you don't need to beat yourself up. Like the low bar lifestyle is about giving yourself a gold star for literally, like we always say, if all you do in the day is make your bed, you've achieved something.

1:09:28Mel Robbins:Yeah, you started off and you did something today. You did something. So for the person who's listening, who is sitting here just thinking about the state of their home, because as you talk, you can't help but like do a little flyby. Yeah, sure. And imagine drawers and particular places that you want to start, but you still feel a little ashamed and overwhelmed. And maybe you're judging yourself a bit. What do you want them to remember most? I want them to remember that we three sat here and went through one drawer within 10 minutes. And we didn't do the work you did. and you probably have the same feeling that they're having right now that you thought, oh my gosh, this drawer looks awful.

1:10:17I can't believe the way it looks. It's so horrible. I can't do this. You did it, not us. We just talked you through it. Yeah. And they can do it too. And it is not, this is not meant to be overwhelming. It is meant to be freeing. It is meant to relieve yourself of the mental clutter. It's not one more thing to do. It's the way to save yourself and to give yourself what you deserve. And it's self-care. It is self-care. It is wellness. It's mental wellness. It is. And physical wellness. It's all, it's so valuable. And there's the payback, the payoff is so much greater than the energy that's required to do it.

1:10:56And don't tie being disorganized with your self-worth. Like don't do that. You are busy. There are so many competing things for your time, energy. And your attention. And this is only an opportunity to help yourself. That's it. It's not another chore. It's truly an opportunity. Yeah, that's absolutely.

1:11:17Mel Robbins:Joanna and Cleo, what are your parting words? My parting words would be to just start. You know, you can't finish anything if you don't start it. And even if you start super small, I think that it's just doing something and all of a sudden you're like, oh, my God, I feel like I can tackle this. I can do it. But you won't get that feeling if you don't start at all. So just start. I would just say the edit is free and you get out whatever you put in. And so if you have five minutes, you will edit for five minutes. And if you have an hour, edit for an hour. but that is so powerful and it gives you such a lift and it will carry you through all the other parts of your house if you can start with something that's for you that way you can see how you maintain it yourself i sometimes think that gives you more confidence to go for the next thing whereas if you do it in a big space that's a very shared space it can be very frustrating when people aren't following your systems right away so if you did your your own bathroom drawer first that is really powerful because you're like this is mine and i'm taking care of it myself and you have the ownership over it.

1:12:21And so you can see it through and you can see the maintenance through and then start implementing it through other drawers where it's shared spaces. Well, I haven't even started and I already feel better.

1:12:29Mel Robbins:You did. We did a drawer. I agree. And I cannot thank you enough. Thank you. Oh, gosh. Thank you. I mean, I cannot thank you enough. I love that 99.9 % of everything that you said I can do. It's not going to take a lot of time. In fact, it's going to take less time, the amount of time that I am wasting and the person who's listening is wasting racing around, feeling overwhelmed and trying to find the things you can't find and wasting money. And you did something really important. You not only gave us the simple steps, but you infused it with such belief and enthusiasm that I know that this will work if I actually do it.

1:13:11Mel Robbins:It will. That's why you just have to start. Well, here's what I want to tell you. You're fantastic. Wow, thank you. And what I appreciate most about this conversation is it wasn't about editing or organizing or decluttering at all. You gave us a roadmap to have the single most powerful resources that we have in our life, which is energy and time, back. Yeah. And I really understand what you mean now that we've had this conversation, that this is not one more thing that you need to add to your to-do list. This is your way to get time back, to get peace back. And I cannot thank you enough for hopping on a plane and for being here and for doing this work and teaching us how to do this for free.

1:14:02Mel Robbins:Well, we are so honored and so happy to be here. What an honor. Thank you. And we are coming to Vermont. Yeah, we sure are. We sure are, ready or not. Here we come. I'm going to go declutter now thinking about that. No, seriously. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much. This was such a pleasure and such an honor. I learned so much and I'm so excited to go home and edit. That's what I'm going to do. I'm so excited for your daily drawer. I know. Please send us a photo. I'm going to take you a photo of it. In fact, when you do a daily drawer, I want you to post a photo of it and tag the home edit.

1:14:31Mel Robbins:Please tag the home edit. We get so much satisfaction about seeing other people's work. Let us celebrate you. Yes. Yes. I love that. So thank you. Thank you. And I also want to thank you. Thank you for taking the time to listen to this episode. And I think you probably started it thinking you were going to get one thing. And now that the conversation's over, I know that you got what I got, which is this deep sense of confidence that, yes, you can do this. And I also feel the lift of pressure and shame that I've been putting on myself, like something's wrong with me. This isn't one more thing that you have to do.

1:15:11Mel Robbins:It's one thing that you get to do and that you can do to get back what you really deserve, which is time and space and to feel good about yourself. So I can't wait to see your photos. And in case no one else tells you, I wanted to be sure to tell you as your friend that I love you and I believe in you and I believe in your ability to create a better life. And holy cow, when we edit, we will create a better life and we'll feel better in that life too. All right. I'll see you in the next episode. I'll welcome you in the moment you hit play.

1:15:44Mel Robbins:Okay, great. Okay. Hey, it's your friend. Hey, it's your friend, Mel Robbins, and welcome. Hold on. Gotcha. Gotcha. Okay. One rule you really follow, or is that the... How would you recommend? Who should do the listen back while you're doing the edit? I listen to my opinion, Amy, the whole time, and my car is so filled with stuff to donate. I cannot wait to double it. Just double it. Get it out. Get it out. I mean, I was saying I have a bag that I've been bringing between. Why do, why are there? Hold on a second. Is that it? Yeah, that's it. Okay. Hey. Great. Wow. Look at, look at that. You two are dynamite.

1:16:24Mel Robbins:Thank you so much. No wonder you are so successful. Do it. Do you want us to literally help throw all this out? Let me just do that YouTube code. Okay. What do I say?

1:16:42Mel Robbins:Oh, and one more thing. And no, this is not a blooper. This is the legal language. You know what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend. I am not a licensed therapist. And this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Got it? Good. I'll see you in the next episode.

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