The Best Relationship Advice You Will Ever Receive

31:31You don't have to be harsh to be firm. Be firm. You know, I'm 75. I like to tell my clients, at 75, I have a deal with the universe. If it's not kind, I'm not interested. it. And that's whether it's me talking to you, or me listening to you, or me talking to me. You know, that adaptive child part of me is very harsh. I grew up with a violent father, and I was very violent between my ears for decades. Nowadays, that harsh critic I know it's just my little teenage fighter. Get me alive. Okay, little 17-year-old shit kicker. Don't let nobody take that bit. Okay, got it, pal. You may have something to say to me, and I'll listen, but you got to say it like you're on my side.

32:28Take that in. Say it like you're on my side. Then I'll listen. All right, Terry. Terry, I have so many more questions I want to dig into. And here's what I want to do. I got to pause so we can give our amazing sponsors a chance to share a few words with you. And I want to give you a chance. In particular, I want to give you a chance to share this extraordinary conversation and all of these tools and insights with your partner, with the people that you love, with people in your life that may be struggling in relationships. And don't go anywhere because a little bit later, Terry is going to share with you the one question he says that you have to ask yourself if you're wondering, should I stay in this relationship?

33:12Should I break up? Is this person the one? Should I work on it? If you don't know if you should stay or go, you have to hear this one question because you will know the answer as soon as you ask yourself it. All right, don't go anywhere. Terry Reel and I will be back after this short break. Stay with me.

33:37Welcome back. It's your buddy, Mel Robbins. Today, you and I are getting the truth and the tools that could save your relationship with the world's number one relationship expert therapist, Terry Reel. So Terry, I want to jump back in and here's my next question. When you start to have this awakening that, oh, I do that, I'm doing this, or they do that, or do the other thing, What's the next step? Take a break. Take a break. Stop it. Take a break. Duck in. You know, I deal with all these tough-ass guys. I mean, NFL players. They're ducking into the bathroom, putting their little five-year-old boys on their laps and talking to them five, six times, literally five, six times a day.

34:18Take a break. Relational mindfulness. Come out of that reactivity. Remember the person is not 14 feet tall with five arms. They're your friend. They're your lover. They're an idiot just like you are. No better or worse. Calm down. Okay, now go back in the fray and use a skill. But don't try it until you're centered. First step is getting centered. And, you know, how do you bring up difficult topics? With love. who does that well i was like and how do i do that like let's say that that you know somebody's let their health go or that they're not motivated or they are not getting help for for their depression or they seem to have started isolating and they're not seeing their friends anymore how How do you bring that up?

35:17And it's a difficult topic and it's something that has kind of led to standoffs or arguments. And you just don't know how to even bring it up without the other person feeling attacked or shutting down. Well, you do your best. and you know you could be taking a page from mother teresa and they still feel attacked because they're in their adaptive child and they feel attacked if you say goddamn anything to them and that's not your responsibility it's theirs but you do your best so tenderness works better than harshness honey sit down let me take your hand these are the things i'm noticing i'm worried about you.

36:03You know, this, this, and this, give them the data. This, this, and this. I make up, not you are, I make up, that you're depressed these days. And I think it would be good for all of us if you did something about it. Look, I wrote the book on male depression back in the It was the first book ever written. And what I said, NIH did a public service campaign about male depression. I said, if you want to help depressed men, aim your data at the women. This is not a moment. And this is our individualistic culture. Oh, he needs to call the doctor in. Yeah, well, good luck with that. How about I'll try calling the doctor.

36:50I'll get him in my car and we'll drive together. And if that doesn't work, how about this? We're going to go to a couples therapist because I'm concerned about your drinking or your anger or whatever it is I'm concerned about. We've tried to talk about it. I haven't found a way to talk to you about it. We need help. So even if you think it's their problem, go to a couples therapist and put it in front of them. Well, as I'm really listening to you, there are no problems that are their problems. Because every problem is our problem. Your relationship is your biosphere. We're not above it. We're not below it.

37:33We're in it, baby. And it's in our interest to keep that biosphere healthy. how do you shift from me versus you to us versus the problem especially in situations where the problem is you're drinking or the problem is you're not motivated or the problem is you've let yourself go or at least that's what you think you think the problem is with them Well, first, have some humility, is what I think. Or even more to the point, this is what I'm not happy about. This is what's not comfortable for me. Look, I'm working, you're not. I come home, you're on the couch drinking a beer. The place is a mess. I got to tell you, Bill, I don't mind being the woman going out and being the breadwinner, but could you at least be a good wife when I get home?

38:33I mean, it sucks. That sounds a little judgmental. Well, but keep it personal. Okay. Keep it humble. Keep it real. This is hard for me. You may not be uncomfortable with dot, dot, dot, but I'm uncomfortable with it. We live together. Can we talk about what needs to happen here? Is there a way to fight constructively? Sure. How do you do it? This is what happened. This is what I told myself. This is how I felt. And this is what I want. But listen to this. Okay. That third step, this is what I felt. Yeah. Here's a tip. Tell me. Take the feeling that comes to you first and put it last. Okay. Anger.

39:27So like if anger is the thing that comes up for me first. Yeah. Last. if you're if you lead with big strong check into your vulnerability what's underneath that lead with that don't i come home to dead flowers you son of a bitch how can you what kind of person no i come home to dead flowers i i don't feel cared about it's kind of lonely i felt lonely i felt helpless i felt um uh uncared about and i felt angry last not first and conversely if you're like codependent and how do you know if you're codependent because i think that that's one of those words that i feel like it's out there and I don't even know that I really understand what codependent is.

40:21Well, you call it over-functioning. Over-functioning? Yeah. Okay. It's that anxious, it's the fixer. Anxious. So codependent means that you only feel okay when everybody around you is okay? That's right. Oh. And you're afraid to rock the boat. Oh. Oh. Yeah, that's what that means. Okay. And so, look, your relationship is your biosphere. If you're a one-up fighter like you and me, Belinda, your biosphere needs you to come down off your high horse. My feelings were hurt. Oh, your biosphere is happy with that. If you're a one-down fixer, don't set daddy off. Your biosphere needs you to stand up and find some spine.

41:10How do you do that? Like, what is your advice to the person that's listening? And it goes, well, that is me. I need to make sure that everybody's okay. I'm always walking on eggshells. Everybody else comes first. But then, of course, I'm exhausted and resentful because nobody's taking care of me. How do I stand up? How do I start to change that adaptive fixing little kid in me? Yeah, well, turn to that kid. Because you learn to run around and fix everything. as a little girl or a little boy. What would have happened if you hadn't done that in that family you grew up with? Odds are all hell would have broken.

41:52We always respect the intelligence of the adaptive child. You did what you had to do. Good for you. It's time to retire. You're not that little girl. Chris is not the family you grew up with. You can do something. Can I tell you a story? Yeah, please. This is my classic adaptive child story. Absolutely true story. Okay. A couple comes to me on the brink of divorce. He's a liar. Lies about everything. She says to him, if you ask him what color shoes he has on, he'll lie and say he has sneakers. I mean, he'll lie. And therapist will. I walk in the office and I go, hi, Bill, the sky's blue. He goes, well, he's not going to tell me it's blue.

42:36He won't give it to me. So I get right away what his deal is, the adaptive child. He's an evader. Nobody's going to get him. All right. Then I think, okay, the adaptive child is adapting to someone, there's someone on the other end of that seesaw. So I go, who tried to control you growing up? His father, true story. Military man, how he's sad, how he ate his friend. What did you do with this controlling father? He looks at me and he smiles. That's resistance, that's why. He says, I lied. Dad said, don't play with Henry. I played with Henry. I told him I played with John. Smart boy. Good for you.

43:22Always respect the strategy that you learned as a kid, but retire them. You're in the backseat. Wise adult is here today. I can take care of this better than you can. Literally, when Belinda and I are having a fight, honest to God, and she's coming at me with anger, because that's what we do. It could be me. I have little Terry. I've worked with an eight-year-old. I put him behind me. Between her anger and you, little Terry, is me. My big adult body. We have a deal. You're protected back there. Her rage stops with me. It doesn't hit you. Here's your part of the deal. I deal with my wife, not you.

44:12You'll make a mess of it. So, okay, so he was my liar. So, smart boy. By the way, you're not five anymore, and your wife isn't your dad. See ya. True story. Two weeks later, they come back. Hand in hand, we're cured. And they were, Mel. I said, okay, there's a story, you know, tell me. Over the weekend, she sends him to the grocery store to get 12 things. True to form, he comes back with 11. She says, where's the pumpernickel? And he's going to lie. Of course he's going to lie. He doesn't want to get chewed out by his father. And he said, every muscle and nerve in my body was screaming to say they were out of the pumpernickel, which was not true.

45:01This moment, I took a breath. I thought of you, Terry. I was lending him my prefrontal cortex. We can do that for each other. I thought of you. I looked my wife in the eye and I said, I forgot the goddamn pumpernickel. It's absolutely true, Mel. She burst into tears. And she said, I've been waiting for this moment for 25 years. That's recovery. Come out of that adaptive child into the prefrontal cortex. Tell the truth. use a skill. Wow. I can see how this relates to

45:43that something you said in the very beginning, where when you fall in love with somebody, you think you're going to be rescued from the behavior in yourself that you feel stuck with, the rage or the, you know, shutting down or the lying or the, you know, walking on eggshells. Yeah. Whatever you learned to do as a kid. Whatever you learned to do as a kid. Whatever you needed to do as a kid. Yeah. And so I can see how in the absolute bliss of a new relationship and you're just falling, falling, falling, you believe that it's always going to be like this. And sure enough, what comes up is the opportunity to do the work, to become the wise adult and not have the adaptive child and all of the default behaviors that happen when you get flooded emotionally or when you get triggered.

46:44And when you really think about the person as it's their adaptive child in the room with your adaptive child when you guys are emotionally flooded. You got it. And any single thing, whether it's, I forgot the pumpernickel bread or it's the tiptoe walking or the raging or the venting or the being right or whatever, like every single one of those things, whether it's triggered by Amazon boxes. or it's triggered by pumpernickel, or it's triggered by their drinking, or it's triggered by absolutely anything. Anything. It's the same cycle. It's the same wound. It's the same emotions. And you're going to be trapped there forever.

47:32And here's where your work is genius. What we do when we're back in the old womb is we redouble our efforts to get that son of a gun to give us what they were supposed to give us. That's why we married them. Or we react out of that adaptation when they don't give it to us. We fight, we flight, we do whatever we do. Here's the new news. Take a breath. They ain't going to give it to you. Watch this. How about if you give it to you? You were abandoned as a kid. You come home, dead flowers, abandonment comes up. Not 50-year-old Mel, 4-year-old Mel. you turn to that four-year-old girl. Chris may be abandoning you right now, but I'm not.

48:22I'm here. I got you, kid. I like to say maturity comes when we deal with our inner children and don't foist them off when our partner is to deal with it. Oh, I love that. Maturity comes when we deal with that inner child, that adaptive self that needed to do whatever it does, whether it's the anger, whether it's the righteousness, whether it's the shutting down, whether it's whatever it is, when we deal with that person. Love you, kid. When the inner child, which means you just, when you're reactive. Yeah. So talk about emotional flooding and emotional over-functioning. Is that the same thing as the adaptive child?

49:04Well, yeah. First you get flooded. That's the wounded child. Okay. And then you get yourself out of that flooding by moving into your adaptive child. Gotcha. So let's just take it as fact. Well, you walk in and the flowers are dead. Yes. There's a little male that was not taken care of. And that's what gets triggered. Yeah. And you're not your adult self feeling let down in a moderate way. You're that four or five-year-old little girl who's never dealt with the way she should have been. And you're flooded, but you don't like that feeling of helplessness. So you move from helplessness to attack, from one down to one up.

49:51These are the roots of violence for all of us. And the one up feels better. It gets you out of that helplessness, but it makes a mess of your marriage. So you have to think your way down from the one up. Well, recognizing that you're just emotionally flooded is important. Recognizing that you're now in react, react, react mode, which is why taking that breath and consciously pulling yourself back into the wise adult. Yes. Which may mean, did you take a 20-minute walk around the block? You have a contract with your partner. Hey, I'm flooded. See you in 20 minutes. And man, your partner says it.

50:30Let them go. Yes. Don't corner an animal. Okay, bye, Em. Don't corner an animal. No, you don't want to do that. That's incredible. Why does emotional over-functioning and shutting down, why do these patterns tend to attract people into a partnership? Because it's your unfinished business. So may I? Yes, please. All right, here we go, Mel. Ready? Yeah. All right, so fighter, Mel, Now, your adaptive child is what I would call one-up and boundaryless. You're one-up. You're grandiose. Yep. You're attacking your righteous. Yep. He's a dick. Yes, 100%. He's a dick. But underneath that are the feelings of abandonment, aloneness, which is your childhood wound.

51:21Yeah. My friend and colleague, Gabor Mate, says, in relationships, you don't see the wound, you see the scar. Ooh. You don't see the wounded child, you see the adaptive child. So you come home, dead flowers. Little girl, Mel, not cared about the way she should have been. And if you were to sit with her, she'd be crying. She'd be lonely. But you don't, because that's painful. So you go one up in the grandiosity, self-righteousness, attack. Now you're powerful, but you're making a goddamn mess of things. Take a break. And then you feel bad about it, because you don't want to make a mess of things.

52:02Well, at least I do. You feel bad about it five minutes later. Yes. You have a hangover. But in the moment, he deserves it. You're right. Let's go. And that's what this is all about. Then you take a break. Hold it. I'm about to lose my shit. See ya. Or hold it. I'm going to shut down. Let me get myself adjusted and I'm going to come back and talk to you. Whatever the adaptation is. You got to sit with that little part of you. It's okay. He loves you. He's an idiot about the dead flowers, but he does love you. Come back. Don't ream him a new one. That's not going to work. Come back and talk to him about what's going on.

52:49But you have to be in your right mind, and that's the opportunity. The healing doesn't come when you get the son of a gun to give it to you. That's the dream. The healing comes when they don't and you deal with it. Not the way you learned as a kid, but in a new way. That heals. Okay, that is the most important thing, in my opinion, that you have said. because you are now pointing at the source of power and healing. And one of the mistakes is that we are trying to get that from our partner and through our partner changing. And what you just said is that the healing comes not from them changing.

53:40The healing that you need comes from you stopping yourself in that moment, taking a breath, not allowing all of the patterns of the past and the adaptive child to come in and fix or freeze or rage. And make a mess. And make a mess. But to just see it happening and then bring the wise adult to the room and respond in a new way. That is the healing. That's the healing. That's the opportunity. You know, for somebody who tends to hold everything in, you know, the baller, you see the thing that hurts your feelings. You feel the emotion that is worry or hurt or abandonment or the thing that you said always take the first feeling, anger, resentment, put it in the back.

54:35What's the feeling underneath it? But for somebody that's like bottling it up, bottling it up, bottling it up. They're feeling fear. What are they afraid of? They're afraid that if they tell the truth and rock the boat, it ain't going to go well. And as are, they grew up in a family where it wouldn't have gone well. Dude, after a child is not stupid. You learn to do what you goddamn needed to do back then, but you're not back there anymore. That's the beauty. How do you learn to communicate your feelings in these little moments instead of just putting it aside and putting it aside until you reach a breaking point?

55:19Well, you have to dare to rock the boat. This goes back to the three steps. Dare to rock the boat and tell the truth. Listen and then teach somebody what you want and reward them in a kind way when they do. And for those of you listening, it may be that your childhood trauma, you know, we said you can have little injuries and having it after a child is screwing things off. That's true. But you can also have big injuries, big. You can have grown up in a family where you learn not to tell the truth because if you did tell the truth, it would not be a good idea. Okay, that was then. This is now. it really helps to separate the wise adult from the adapter child.

56:03I'm so glad you're sharing this with us because it feels like this is the playbook for how to show up better. I need to take a quick pause and give our amazing sponsors a chance to share a few words. And I also want to give you a chance to send this episode to somebody in your life. Like as you're letting this sink in, what if you sent this episode to your partner with a quiet, hey, Want to listen to this together? And while you're sharing that, let's take a quick minute to give our sponsors a chance to shine. But stay with us, because when we come back, Terry has even more tools on how to repair conflict so the same stuff doesn't just keep bubbling up.

56:43We'll be right back.

56:56Welcome back. It's your buddy Mel Robbins. you and I are getting The Truth That Could Save Your Relationship or Help You Build the Best Relationship Ever with Terry Reel. Terry, the next question I have is this. What does a healthy, connected relationship really look like in practice? Telling the truth to each other with love and being human. You know, there are times Belinda and I are at each other and I really wouldn't want a video camera recording what we sound like. I like to say to my clients, look, the skills I'm teaching, here's what I say. Every skill I, I've been married for 40 years.

57:34Every skill I teach has been clinically tested. She's the clinic.

57:43And on those days when either Belinda or God help us, if we both at the same time, lose our wise adults and just go with the adaptive child. We look just as ugly as you two. I say that to my page. They love hearing that. I'm just like you. Use your skills as best you can. Expect the wheels to come off sometimes. Nobody's going to die. When they do, get back in your eyes or don't. Make amends. Apologize. Own your shit. Get back on track. We're a biosphere. We love each other. Let's work this out. I can say every single fight issue breakdown that I have had in my 29 years of marriage, I can now 1000 % see that it's this feeling of being alone and that it's all on me.

58:42And it is like freaking clockwork. Yeah. Once you see it, you will see it everywhere. Everywhere. And you know what? What a blessing. Maybe after this conversation, I want you to email me and tell me, what a blessing it would be for you to come home, the goddamn flowers are dead, and instead of ripping his head off, which he then shuts you down, you say to him, you know what, honey? Shoot me. I know you didn't mean it. I saw those dead flowers. I'm back in my little girl not being cared about. And it made me sad. you see what he does then yeah well i can also not get mad at him and i can also assume good intent and i can also know that like a lot of times he does remember and i can and this is like something we thought about 10 years ago so it sounds kind of funny to even be thinking about it now because it's not not it's one of the ones but the point is the little things become the big things because the little things are the source of bringing up.

59:51The little things resonate with what happened to us. So they take on bigger meaning. But what you say is right. You know, I love talking to older couples. And I asked them about their life. I saw it had to be late, a married 50. I said, you guys seem happy. We are. Tell me. Oh, the first 15 years were hell. Really? Yeah. I kept trying to change Harry. And then one day, this is absolutely true, I'm out of college. And then one day I looked at him and I went, oh, that's Harry. Okay. Ever since then, we've been fine. There is a place for, I call it scanning for the positive instead of scanning for the negative.

1:00:34Be appreciative. Tell your partner what they're doing right instead of always harping on what they're doing wrong. So there are so many listener questions that we have, and I'd love to read one from a listener in Chicago. We've been together for 12 years. We love each other. There's no doubt about that. But if I'm being honest, it feels like the spark is gone. Same routine, same conversation, same habits, same everything. There's no fighting. There's no big drama. But there's no real excitement or passion either. I don't even know what desire would look like for us anymore. It feels flat, and here's the part I'm struggling with.

1:01:14I want to bring that spark back, but I don't want it to be forced or fake. How do we actually reconnect with desire and intimacy after years together without pretending or going through the motions? What makes you think they would be fake? Why don't you start off by saying to your partner what you just wrote to me? Why don't you tell the truth? Look, I did a whole book, audiobook. book. I called it Fierce Intimacy. Lean in and deal with each other. Most people don't. We stop. Because when we do, we're so unskilled, it doesn't go very well. So we back off. We say we're compromising, but we're not.

1:01:52We resent it. Distance grows. Sexuality dies. If you want to keep your relationship juicy, tell the truth to each other. Take each other on. Start with this. We're flat. maybe you're okay being watching tv every night but i'm not let's go do ballroom and then like okay you're flat what are you going to do about it you show up in a with a mariachi band you you know you go to the sex store and get some velvet chains i don't know what are you going to do to mix it up? Why are you waiting for your partner to do it? But tell the truth to each other. We stop doing that because we're very unskilled. And when we do, it doesn't go well.

1:02:41We have to learn how to do it. Here's another question. I've been married for 11 years and I'm realizing I've become the critic in the relationship. I notice everything my husband does wrong. The socks on the floor, the way he loads the dishwasher, the tone when he talks to the kids. It's like I'm constantly scanning for what's off or annoying. And here's the thing. I don't want to be that way. He's a good man. I love him, but I rarely notice the good stuff until he points it out. Like, why is it that you only mention what I'm doing wrong? And he's right. I don't want to keep showing up this way.

1:03:09I just don't know how to switch out of this mindset. How do I stop scanning for what's wrong and start seeing what's good again? What's going on in this dynamic? Because I think that's really relatable when you got somebody picking on somebody all the time. Yeah, it's a form of control. I would say who was the complainer in your family growing up on where did you learn this from there's an adaptive child in there that thinks that picking at him is going to be a good thing and then the other issue is man intimacy is scary vulnerability is scary does it feel safer to be constantly nagging what's wrong than to open up and receive what's right.

1:04:00And that's so true for all of us. And the more damage you had as a kid, the more frightening it is. We fuss with each other because being close to each other in itself can be trauma-triggering for us. It's scary to be vulnerable and close. You have to allow it. that's the piece I work with next. First, we deal with what you do wrong. We deal with what came, where it came from. We give you the skills to do it different. Now, you have to receive it. And that's brand new for a lot of us. And it's frightening. I talk about miserable, comfortable, happy, uncomfortable. Let's talk about miserable, comfortable.

1:04:51What does that look like? that looks like the same old, same old. You could do it in your sleep, but you could do it in your sleep. You're perfectly comfortable there. Ooh. Chris, honey, when I came home and those flowers were dead, I was back in my family and I didn't feel very cared about. How's that feel? Freaking scary, that's how that feels. It's a lot more comfortable to go after them Adaptive children, you're safe, you're comfortable. You could do it in your sleep. Wise adult, new, courageous, scary. Good, go there. With help, with support, 12-step group, woman's group, but support that will support your relationship, not your individual power.

1:05:45What's so interesting is everybody wants love and wants to feel loved. And I never thought about it as a skill to allow yourself to be loved. Yeah. And it's hard. So when I'm working with a couple, partner A starts giving partner B what they want. Now we move into what I call transmission reception. Partner A is transmitting. How is partner B doing receiving? When your partner starts giving you what you want, do we fall in their arms and go, no, we don't. It's too little, too late. You did it, but I had to ask you. All these yes, buts. That's to protect ourselves from the vulnerability of being loved.

1:06:37Allowing our hearts to open. Allowing the love in. That's scary. And the less love you had as a kid, the scarier it is to let yourself love and be loved as an adult. I have to tell you a story. Oh, tell me. About the nitpickers? Yeah, the nitpickers, please. I was doing a men's group, and one guy floored everybody. This is a true story. He said, my wife walked in today, told my admin, hold the phone. She had a picnic basket, laid out a picnic on the ground, champagne, a little smooching, packed up everything, and left. All the other guys are like, oh my God, that's fantastic. He looks at us all, it's a true story.

1:07:25He goes, it almost makes up for the way she chews her potato chips.

1:07:34You want to fuss with your partner's imperfection? they will give you, it's like vision, endless opportunity to, no. Be brave. Open your heart. Be vulnerable. If you're a one-down fixer, the vulnerability is standing up for yourself. That's what's scary. If you're a one-up fighter, the vulnerability is moving into the herd. Be a human. But either way, open your heart, take some risks. Intimacy is what we're born for. And respect it. It's frightening. So is that story and the joke an example of how somebody blocks out the love and intimacy? Yeah. Yeah. I did work with the great feminist psychologist Carol Gilligan here.

1:08:26We worked together. And I called it Carol's invariant description. I'd be doing all this fancy, cool. Sorry, Carol. She said the same damn thing every time. She'd look at a couple and she would go, you know, Bill and Julie, intimacy is really scary, isn't it? You guys were just close to each other. And then Bill, you brought up a fight from a week ago. And Jill, you took the back. Now you're back in your corners, safe and miserable. Isn't it hard to just be in the naked vulnerability of loving each other and being close? And every time, of course, it would be beautifully timed. Every time she would say it, they burst into tears and she was always right.

1:09:12It's scary to be intimate. It takes courage. I'm 34 and I'm realizing I have no idea how to be in a healthy relationship. I either give way too much, I over-function, people please, twist myself into knots, trying to keep everyone happy, or I do the opposite. I shut down, shut people out, convince myself I don't need anybody. I swing between the two. It's exhausting. It wasn't modeled healthy love growing up. And now that I'm older, I don't even know what healthy is supposed to feel like. How do I start figuring that out? What does a healthy relationship look like? And how do I learn to trust myself enough to build one?

1:09:52Well, I brought up Carol Gilligan. Here's one of my great quotes from her. I love this. You cannot love from the one down that's running around cleaning everybody's mess. You cannot love from the one up. Shut down, I don't care about anybody. Love demands democracy. So this person has to learn how to be in the biosphere. There's no relationship without voice. There's no voice without relationship. That's also Carol. Can you do this with yourself all day long? Like if work is pissing you off, if work makes you shut down, if a friendship makes you get angry? Yeah, although what's interesting is we tend to be more on our wise adults with everyone but our mates and sometimes our kids.

1:10:42They just don't get at us in the same way. But yeah, you're an adaptive child all over the place. We do consulting to teams that aren't working. No, but I meant like if she's single and so she's not in a relationship. She is in a relationship. Yeah. She has a relationship. She's got parents. She's got friends. She's got siblings. She's got a dog. We're all in relationships. And it's the same skills and the same work. Got it. So if the question is, I look at my track record and I do not trust myself and I don't know how to do this and it wasn't modeled. And you've already said, Terry, it hasn't been modeled for anybody and nobody teaches these skills.

1:11:21you can start applying absolutely everything now right now right now even if you're not in a romantic relationship you're still in a relationship yeah you're still in relationships and so these are the tools that you can use for any relationship this way of thinking relationally not individualistically and these tools telling the truth with love and not harsh but telling the truth. They're so different from the culture at large, and they're so potent, that doing them badly will transform your life. And here's the great news, you can start doing them badly right now. Go ahead. Because it's such a disruption to the way we run around and pretend and lie and please and shove our feelings down and rage that simply trying to do these things badly telling the truth, using I statements, not venting, not trying to be right.

1:12:25Your partner will be blown away. Well, you'll also be blown away. You should be. By yourself. It's a happier way to live. Well, I often joke, Terry, that people say that second marriages are really amazing. And I say that's especially true if it's with the same person. Wow. And I feel like the tremendous amount of work that I've done on myself and that Chris and I have done together, it feels like a completely different relationship because I feel way more peaceful. And I was, I know you will say this is probably not true because we're all out of control and we don't understand that adaptive child and the behaviors that come out on automatic when you're emotionally flooded.

1:13:08But I felt so out of control with my anger, with my frustration, with my feelings of being alone, even though I'm married, that I thought it would always feel that way. And it's shocking how quickly you can start to apply these skills and feel more peaceful and in control and in harmony with yourself first. That's the joy. Yes. And you also get a better relationship. It's both. What happens? Can you speak a little bit about that feeling of you're in a relationship and yet you're really lonely? I call that alone together. Alone together? Yeah. Being alone together. And it's because you're not telling the truth and you're not getting through.

1:14:00You know, that cliche of the couple at the restaurant that's sitting there with nothing to say. Oh my God, you see so many. Yeah. Well, here's what I say. It isn't that they have nothing to say. You say, have too much to say and no way of saying it. That's why they're sitting there inside. If the person listening is feeling like, okay, I'm together alone, what am I going to do? I'm going to start telling the truth and blow this whole thing up? Isn't it better to just be together alone instead of blowing up my life? I mean, first of all, learn. Because I think that's the fear. Well, of course it's the fear.

1:14:42And if you go off like a seven-year-old adaptive child, what I call individual empowerment, I was weak, now I'm strong, go screw yourself, the person may blow up. So getting through to somebody is an art. You have to learn how to do it. But even that is just maximizing your possibility. At the end of the day, it goes like this. First, learn some skills. Do it well. Beating the person over the head probably has something to do with why they're not listening to you. Two, once you learn the skills and you do your best, if you're still not getting through, get help. Get couples therapy. And get a couples therapist who really helps, which many don't.

1:15:35Three. You ready? Uh-huh. If you're still not fully there, I have a tool. Should I stay or should I go? And I call this tool a relational reckoning. And it's a question. You ready? Yes. Am I getting enough here to make grieving what I'm not getting worth my while? Am I getting enough to make grieving what I'm not getting okay with me? You know what? Bill was a real playboy, a real lover, and he had partner after partner who swung from chandeliers. He's now married to a woman, one out of four, who has a sexual abuse history. She ain't swinging from chandeliers. She needs it slow and gentle. Does Bill miss the wild old days?

1:16:32Yes. That's okay. Is he going to trade her in for one of those crazy sex dolls? No. He loves her. I'm getting so much that letting go of what I'm not getting is okay with me. And if that's your answer, stop bitching and embrace what's good. If your answer is, it's not okay with me, first stop is therapy, and second stop is you're done. But don't keep living like a resentful victim. It's bad for everybody.

1:17:16I'm just letting that sit. Because it's easy to get yourself in a situation where you stay with the wrong person. And you're right about how resentful you are and what a victim you are. Why are you saying with the wrong person? First of all, your first shot is turning them into the right person, which I know goes against a little of what you've been saying. But you turn them into the right person by using your skills. Well, they don't even have an opportunity to be the right person if you haven't done the work. Of asking. Well, and also bringing the wise adult yourself to the relationship and then seeing who shows up when you're safe and when you're wise and when you are in the moment and calm and kind and asking for what you need.

1:18:07You totally got it. What does that mean they're the wrong person? And maybe if you change your behavior, guess what happens on the other side of the seesaw? Maybe. But why don't you give that a shot? You know, everybody who sees me is what I call an essentialist. What's wrong with my marriage? Them. What's wrong with them? Them. That's who they are. Yeah, it's a true story. Harry, whatever his name was, comes, no sex in my marriage. Oh, I'm sorry to hear that. How long? Decades. Why? She's frigid, you know? She's just a cold person. Whole family cold. Good. I bring in Mrs. Harry. No sex. No, of course not.

1:18:49Of course not. Yeah, you wouldn't want to have sex with him. He's a premature ejaculator, has been for decades. If I try and talk to him about it, he just flies into a rage. He has no interest in my needs. And anytime I try and address it, it just gets, forget it. I bring in Harry. It's a true story. Harry, I've got great news for you. That sexless marriage you're in, you have something to do with it. But once you stop blaming the other person and start to see that it's a system, if it is, you change your behavior and then see what happens. But first, change your behavior. So did they stay together?

1:19:31Yeah. They started having sex. She taught him how to be a better lover. And he was with, I mean, this is where I come in. Harry, it's in your interests. Come down off your high horse. Let her teach you. You want her in bed with you? Make it worth her a while. That goes back to it. Make it worth her a while. Really? Okay, I will. Good, do it. That's what most therapists don't do. Do you think any relationship can be repaired? No. And I'm not in the business of repairing every relationship. So what are some of the circumstances or lines in the sand for you that are important to say? In terms of non-starters, it goes without saying, but if you're physically in danger, if you're talking—I don't ask people to tell truth to power when they're going to get hurt if they do it.

1:20:31And there are unfortunately some reality to that. So we don't do couples therapy if there's a threat of domestic violence. If you're the victim of honest-to-God physical threat, get some help, get some safety. That's not couples' work. That's your work to get safe and your kids safe. And that is absolutely intolerable, period, end of story. Some are obvious. Somebody's got an addiction they don't want to deal with, alcoholism, sex addiction. Someone is chronically irresponsible and they don't want to deal with it. Somebody has a major mental health disorder, depression, they don't want to deal with it.

1:21:16All that's a role. Then some are more subtle. If there's a relationship where there's a clear asymmetry in the maturity levels of the two people, eventually the immaturity of the immature one will be too painful for the other one to live with and they should go. Go find a better partner. But before you go find a better partner, see if you can get this one to be a better partner by changing your moves on your side of the net. First, try that. How honest should you be with your friends and family about the challenges in your relationship? Like, where do you see the line from just sort of healthy sharing and, you know, trying to get support because you feel like you can't talk or whatever reason versus sharing way too much that might hurt the partnership.

1:22:14Not family. Friends. What do you mean not family? Well, you don't want your mother-in-law listening to Chris bitch about what a rager you are. You don't want that. No. You know, one of the biggest fights that Chris and I have ever had in our 29-year marriage was the fact that he shared things with his mom that we were struggling with. Like, he went to her for help. I was so angry about it. I felt so, like, betrayed because it felt like I was no longer married to Chris. It felt like I was now married to her son, and she was now in the middle of this issue we were trying to work out privately. And it caused a major rift, not only between me and Chris, but I felt all of this distance with my mother-in-law, who I'm really close with.

1:23:13But for at least a year, I just, it was really awful. And I know he didn't mean it. And I know he was just looking for the support that he needed. But wow, I have to say, do not go outside your marriage and bring in your family. It's not fair to your spouse because you're not in a relationship with your mother-in-law. You're not in a relationship with, your partner's not in a relationship with your dad. They're in a relationship with you. So give them the respect to work on it internally. Oh, I'm so glad you said that. I'm so glad you said that because while the intention I think was beautiful, the actual impact and result was very difficult and damaging.

1:23:59And we've, of course, cleaned it up and learned from it, but wow. Now, what about friends, though? Because you said friends are okay? And what are the parameters? I teach people this. Train your friends to support relational empowerment, not individual empowerment. Okay, what does that look like? Train your friends to support the relationship, not you as an individual. if they're going to support your marriage, then you can bitch about your partner. But if they're going to take your question about your partner as license to empower you at the expense of the relationship, that's not a friend you want.

1:24:44So what happens when you talk about your relationship? And even that, you're not passing, you can train your friends to support the relationship so that it's safe to complain. You know, I complain about Belinda. that she complains about me. My friends listen and they go, okay, have you ever thought that maybe you might dot, dot, dot? Oh, come on, man. Think about it. That's a friend. So you just say to them, I need you, I'm going to come to you. I want to talk to you about something going on, but I want this to work. You know I love him. Is that how you say it? Like, how do you say it? Yeah. You're empowering me to even be more of a fighter or even more righteously indignant, that is no help to me.

1:25:32So if you're going to be my friend, I'm going to talk about my marriage. This is what my adaptive child looks like. You know that. I don't need more support to be a fighter. Or Chris would say, I don't need more support to shut her down. Take a look at what I'm saying and then give me some advice and support about what I can do different. it. Terry, could you speak directly to the person who's listening or watching right now? And if they take just one action based on everything that you have taught us today, what do you think the most important thing to do is? Listen, first figure out if you tend to be one up or one down.

1:26:17If you're one down, have some courage. With love, not harshness. Lean in and deal. If that doesn't work, get some help. If you're one up, get off your goddamn high horse. Show some vulnerability. I don't care if you're right. Right is not going to save your marriage. Ask your partner, what do you need? Come off of your selfishness and lead in a new way. If you're small, get big. If you're big, get small. Try something new on your side and see if that changes things. I love that if you're small, get big. If you're big, get small. I mean, if you're small, get big. And if you're big, get small. If you're one up, come down.

1:27:15If you're one down, come up. Democracy, democracy, democracy. Meaning it's we. We. It's not me above you. And it's not me. Or it's not me below you. No. It's me. So when you say one up, you mean you're the one who's acting big in the relationship and you feel above the person. And when you say one down, you're saying you're now small and scared and you feel below the person. Right. Oh, so the one up is you're big and that's loud and angry or righteous or venting or any of that stuff. And one down is you feel small and you might be fixing or you might be shutting down or you might be pulling. Like it's the.

1:28:03Find some courage. Find some courage. If you're one up, yield. Open your heart. Surrender. Be vulnerable. If you're one down, lean in. Have courage. Stand up for health in the relationship. It's not even standing up for yourself. Stand up for the biosphere. A lot of women in particular think, it's selfish of me to stand up for my knees. No, it's good for your biosphere. Stand up for the biosphere. Terry, I know this conversation is going to spread around the globe and that so many people are going to listen and feel their hearts and a new possibility open. I hope so. And then they're going to hit share and send this to their partner and say, could you listen to this, please?

1:29:01Good. I would love to have you speak directly to the person who is here because their partner sent this to them. Great. Love that. And what do you want them to know? This is what I want you to know, my friend. It is in your interest to learn how to do this. It's in your interest. We are born to be relational. If your partner is giving you this episode, it's because they want you to open your heart. They want you to be a more relational human being. This is what we're born for as a species. This is what makes us healthy, not just mentally, but physically. We are born to do this work. It's been lost, and we need to retrieve it for ourselves, for our families, for our children.

1:29:59If you don't want to do this for yourself and you don't want to do it for your partner, do it for your kids. They need you to open your heart and be in a functional relationship. And do it for the planet. We are treating Mother Nature out of this dominance model. It's obsolete and it's suicidal. Learn to do this differently. You'll live 10 years older. Your partner will be happier with you. your sex life will improve, and your kids will talk to you, and you might actually do something to save the world. What the hell? Give it a shot. Thank you for saying that, because I don't want somebody who receives this to experience it like, oh, they're trying to fix me, they're trying to change me.

1:30:49It's really an invitation. It's an invitation. and I want to say I admire your heroism to even entertain the possibility. This is hard. I started off by saying this. This is not easy, but the rewards it will give you, your family, your children are almost inexpressible. It's hard work. Look, break the chain. Terry Real, you're real good. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for the work that you're doing. And thank you for being here and sharing all of this wisdom with us and giving us tools so we can practice these skills so that we might just heal ourselves and in the process make our relationships better.

1:31:44You're wonderful to speak with. You're a wise woman, and it was hard one. It takes one to know one now. So bless you for the work you're doing, too. And I also want to thank you. Thank you for taking the time to listen to this. Thank you for really letting what Terry was teaching us sink in. Thank you for sharing this with your partner, with the people that you care about. there is no doubt in my mind that if you take everything to heart and you use the tools, especially those four questions, I can't wait to share this with my kids, with Chris, oh my gosh, there's no doubt in my mind that your relationships are going to get so much better.

1:32:26And in case no one else tells you today, I wanted to be sure to tell you as your friend that I love you and I believe in you and I believe in your ability to create a better life. And if you apply all of the advice that you just heard, there is no doubt in my mind that your life will get better and so will your relationships. Alrighty. I will see you in the very next episode. I'll be there to welcome you in the moment you hit play.

1:32:52This is Terry Real, keeping it real. I'm excited though. I've been wanting to meet him for a long time. Why would I do that when I can take a photo and send a passive aggressive text message? Why would I do that, Terry? When I can dump the flowers out in the sink loudly and then throw the things in the trash as if I'm sending anger signal waves. Yeah. I'm like, this was an old dynamic between us. Okay. Hold on a second. Here comes, sorry.

1:33:27Bar Taco, baby. Burp is brought to you by Bar Taco. Okay, here we go. All right, so this is, okay, great. Will you go to the top, hon? You're not alone. this con... Don't panic. You're not alone. Terry, you're really good. I can do a ton of puns on your last name. This is real advice and very direct talk. I love this. Great job. Excellent job.

1:34:02Oh, and one more thing. And no, this is not a blooper. This is the legal language. You know what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend. I am not a licensed therapist. And this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Got it? Good. I'll see you in the next episode.

1:34:37Sirius XM Podcasts.

1:34:44This segment is brought to you by Sheraton Hotels. If your life feels nonstop, airports, hotel rooms, or you're just going from Zoom to email to email to Zoom, or you're just always on the go, here's what I've learned. It just comes down to a few simple habits and the spaces that help you stay connected to yourself. That's why I love what Sheridan's doing. They've completely transformed their hotels. At the center of it all, the new lobby experience designed to help you gather, work, or just unwind without missing a beat. And one of my favorite things, gatherings by Sheridan. These are free curated experiences, everything from culinary experiences to learning to play the ukulele.

1:35:25Gatherings at Sheridan create something for you to do and a sense of community, even when you're far from home. Sheridan's not just a place to stay. It's a place that helps you stay connected to yourself. So I have a confession. In the past month, I have only been home for eight days. That's 23 of the last 31 days. I've just been on the go for work. Maybe you have a career where you're nonstop on the road too. Maybe you're in a period of work where you might as well be traveling because you're there day and night. Or maybe you're not flying across the country, but you're still running from here to there.

1:36:02You're running the kids around. You're running the house. You're running the show at work. You're running on empty. I have been getting email after email from listeners just like you saying things like, I feel so disconnected. I am so exhausted running around. I think I'm losing myself a little more every day. Sound familiar? So it begs the question, how do you find your way back? Well, I want to tell you the three simple things that I do that always bring me back to myself at home, on the road, wherever I am, no matter how busy life can be. Number one, take yourself for a walk. I take myself for a walk every single day.

1:36:44You don't have to go for 10 ,000 steps. You don't have to break a sweat and make this a workout. This is just taking yourself for a walk. And that one walk, it's gonna give you more energy, it'll improve your mood, it'll help your focus, and it will boost your health over the long-term. And what I love about walking is that you can do it no matter where you are. And so when life is just nonstop and completely overstimulating, what's the first thing you're gonna do? Just take yourself for a walk. All right, the second habit that is on my list that always instantly makes me feel like myself again?

1:37:20Fit in friends. I'm serious about this. Fit in friends. See, when I'm traveling, I don't just plan work. I plan people. I'll give you an example. So this past month, I was in a bunch of different cities and one of them happened to be Austin, Texas. I carved out time to see my good friend. We hung out for a little bit. We caught up. We had breakfast. Next stop was Los Angeles, where of course I carved out time to spend time with our daughter, Kendall, but I also found time to fit in my friend, Leanne. We literally met for coffee for 15 minutes. So just take a look at your week. Do you have time to fit in a friend?

1:37:57Could you invite them on the walk in the morning? Could you have a coffee date? How about a 15 minute call? Make it happen because it matters. And the third habit that I have, in the middle of a busy life, tuck yourself in. You need something that you're doing to signal. Okay, day's over. And for me, number one, a bath. I don't care if I'm at home or a hotel room. I run hot water. I slip into the tub. Oh, and I just breathe. Maybe for you, it's not a bath. Maybe for you, tucking yourself in means, okay, I'm going to stretch or I'm going to journal. Whatever it is, protect it. So if you're in it right now, you're juggling everything, you're chasing your goals, and you're trying to hold it all together, I want you to know you're doing a really great job.

1:38:49And remember this, you don't need life to slow down in order to feel grounded. You just need a few habits that travel with you. Number one, take yourself for a walk. Number two, fit in, friends. And finally, tonight, tuck yourself in. Three habits that will keep you steady and bring you back to yourself. and you deserve to feel like you again, even in the middle of everything. I wanna thank our sponsor, Sheridan Hotels. You know, so many people love Sheridan because they've designed their hotels with busy people like you in mind. You know that moment when you're deciding, do I stay in my room or try to work from the lobby at Sheridan?

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