Turn Anxiety Into Power: A 3-Step Process to Master Your Emotions From a Harvard Psychologist

0:00Hey, it's your friend Mel and welcome to the Mel Robbins podcast.

0:07I'm so glad you're here today because there's a huge, big life transition going on in our family. Our daughter's just graduated from college. She does not have a job after college. And I just feel tense. I feel this wave coming at me. Maybe you felt that if you have a spouse or a partner that gets fired from a job, or maybe you felt that with a kid, or I have a friend who just lost their dad. And of course, they're going through a period of discomfort. And I just want to run towards it and try to fix it and make it go away. And so as I was sitting here this morning, starting to get a stomach ache about how can I help her cope with this massive life transition?

0:48I thought, you know, Mel, why not be proactive? Why not use a incredible therapist as a way to think through something that is coming at you. That's a good idea, right? And one of the benefits I'm realizing to this podcast is you and I have on speed dial, some of the most amazing experts on the planet. And your friend Mel is not going to put it past herself to reach out and ask for free advice for both of us. We're going to get a twofer, you know, two for one, meaning here's what's going to happen. I'm going to get a therapy session from Dr. Luana Marquez. Remember her? She's the best selling author of Bold Moves and a clinical psychologist, an associate professor at Harvard.

1:37She did a wildly popular episode with us all about avoidance, avoiding things that are hard, avoiding all kinds of stuff in our life. You loved that episode. So I've got Dr. Luana back And I am grateful that she is here for us because I need this help and support. And in particular, I want Dr. Luana to walk you and I through clinical and scientific research that helps you move through transition and helps you help other people move through transition. All right, Dr. Luana, welcome back to the Mel Robbins podcast. Thank you, Mel. I'm so excited to be back. Well, I'm really excited because there's so much that I want to talk to you about.

2:21We are in a moment of time when this episode is going to come out where there's tons of people graduating. And that's a major transition. And I am personally bracing. Dr. Marquez, I'm bracing. Our daughter is graduating from college. Oh, my God. I can feel the panic attack happening. Wow. Wow. She is then going to leave California and come home for the summer. Wow. And she is an artist, a singer-songwriter. So there's no defined career path. And I know that the bottom is going to drop out. Why are transitions so damn hard? I can feel the pain already for you, Mel. I can just feel like your whole voice changed.

3:02And there's so many people in the same boat. In fact, the world is in transition since COVID. It's a major transition. This is how I think of a transition before we even talk about why it happens or why it's so hard. The way I say transition is somebody wants to go on a journey. OK, and there's this idea of this dream life, this thing that you want to do. And some are voluntary, some are not. Like your daughter is finishing, it's a voluntary transition after college. And she has this whole life ahead of her. And so that's exciting. But then there is the old, right? And the old I see as the shore.

3:33And so in transitions, we're like holding on to the shore of what we know, the certainty of the things that we know sort of worked. It's no longer working, by the way, because you want this dream life. And then the boat starts to leave and you're holding on to shore and you're holding on to the boat and you start to get stretched thin. And that's what we start to feel. It's that panic that you're talking about. It's that anxiety. It's that uncertainty that happens. But we're so afraid of discomfort. We avoid discomfort so much that we just continue to hold on. And this is the first thing I want to say to everybody.

4:09Let go and start swimming. Let go and start swimming. because there is no ticket to a perfect life, right? That holding on is avoidance. And how many people have we heard that stay in a job they dislike, right? It's like holding on to certainty. I mean, I'm in the major of a transition in my life, in a career, and I'm as scared as you are. But like, if I just hold on to Harvard because that's what makes me good enough, then I'm never gonna get to explore the world. Wait a minute, what's the transition you're in the middle of? Well, so, you know, for the past year and a half, I really hit a wall.

4:42at Harvard MS General. And I love what I did in terms of research, but I felt like there's so much more that I could do to help so many more people. I wanted to have an impact in the global world in terms of mental health. And let's be honest, an academic paper is not going to do it, right? It's just not. But I've been terrified to let go of this position and this academic self to jump into public speaking, writing books. I don't have a path for that. It is scary in transition. It really is. The first thing we all have to talk about is there's fear there. For sure. In fact, this book came out of my need to create space to have an impact in the global world.

5:28In terms of mental health, I wanted to write this book for 10 years, okay? And I was recording with Dan Harris for his app. And I told him about it. And he says, go do it. Like the world needs it. And I was like, wow. And he's like, go do it. Make a bold move. You can't just talk about a bold move. You have to make a bold move. And my schedule is still full at Harvard, right? I wrote this book between four in the morning and seven in the morning because it mattered to me. And I was going to create space for this book. And HarperCollins said it takes a year and a half to two years for a book to come out.

6:00And I said to them, what if I deliver in June? And they said, nobody writes a book in four months. It's impossible. I said, try me. And so I did. I woke up at four to seven. My son, if you read this book, you see the stories of my son every morning, he gets up, he'd run downstairs, give me this big hug. I would be exhausted. Seven in the morning, I'm already tired. And those hugs created such connection for me and reminded me why I'm writing this book. And then he would sit and he's like, I want to write too. Today I want to write about how I love my mom. And we'd sit at my computer for a little bit.

6:31He's five. He's not writing, but he's thinking he's writing. And that's what a value-driven life looks like. You create space for it. You go for it. And I have no idea what the world will do with this book, but for me is the integration of all parts of my life coming true. Ladies and gentlemen, Dr. Juana Marquez in the house. That's how you do a bold move. And that's why you need to read this book. And that's why I'm here with you because now, you know, your team called on Friday afternoon and today's Monday morning. I have this stuff I do at Harvard. I got it done over the weekend so that I could be here with you.

7:06And every action I take is aligned with the impact right now. You need to create space for integration to happen. And so I choose those actions very carefully. And that's what integration looks like. I just feel so excited to be here. If you're so alive talking to you because it's a hundred percent value aligned. That's amazing. Wow. You talk about values, whether you're going to move or you're breaking up or you're changing jobs or you're thinking about your dreams or college is ending. What is the intersection of values and transitions? So values are so important. So let's define values first, right?

7:44Values are intrinsic motivators. There are the things that matter the most to us, the things that should be our compass in life, family, religion, wealth, integrity, right? And so what is the intersection between values and transitions? Well, in transitions, our values are questioned. What matters the most to us should be our compass. Let me give you a personal example to make this come to life for everybody. Early on in my career, ambition was the value that mattered the most to me. And once you have a value, then we set goals with those values. For me, it was getting to graduate school. Then I had a goal getting to Harvard.

8:25Then I wanted to be an assistant professor. Ambition was the value. And then I set clear goals to those values. Eventually, I got to associate professor. The day I became associate professor, a colleague of mine said to me, so what are you going to do next to become full professor? And that question bothered me. I was like, do I want to be a full professor? Ambition got me out of poverty. Ambition got me out of Brazil. Ambition is how I define how I would never go back to be poor again. But no longer ambition is working from email. I'd lay in bed at night and I had all the success in Harvard. And yet my brain was just not happy.

9:01I couldn't sleep. I put on 40 pounds, 40 pounds, right? And I kept saying to myself, what if I just write another grant? What if I just write another paper? You know, I don't have the right to feel the way I do with all the privilege I have. And so ambition no longer was severing me, but I kept going at it, kept going at it. And one day I was sitting in my office writing a grant and half of my face went numb, just numb. And the first thought I had is, Luana, this is anxiety. You're unhappy at work. You're writing a grant. This is just anxiety. Next thing you know, half of my body starts to tingling and I'm terrified.

9:37And then the next thing I thought is, oh my God, I'm having a stroke. Yeah. I'm having a stroke. So I call the nurse. And meanwhile, I'm like, I'm an anxiety researcher. I treat anxiety. This is just anxiety. I don't want to say myself, but like half of my body is numb. And the doctor, my husband, like drives me. I'm crying. And at that point, I remember going to my primary care med. Now I'm saying to myself, oh my God, I hit rock bottom. Like this is no longer working. I know what I'm doing is no longer working, but now I'm about to lose everything. Right now I'm having a stroke. and what if I can't speak again?

10:11What if I, like everything in my life that I had worked so hard, it was right in front of me. And I just had this moment of like, holy shit, like, holy shit, I've avoided for so long by following this value that no longer served me. And just to avoid my transition. Well, that's all I was doing. I was avoiding this transition. And so it turned out that I wasn't having a stroke, thank God. And they think it was a severe migraine. I've never had a migraine in my life. I don't know. The neurologist, like it was 48 hours of hell. And that's when I faced reality. Like that moment was when I paused and was like, I cannot avoid this transition anymore.

10:50I'm no longer actually living a value driven life. I'm living an emotion driven life. I'm just trying to not feel uncomfortable. So I keep doing the things. And you asked me an important question in the beginning. Why this transition is so hard, right? Why is it hurt so much? It's because it creates so much discomfort. And in that moment, I was just avoiding it. I was just avoiding it. And I couldn't avoid it anymore. And the reason I share this with people is I hope people wake up before they get that well, because we hold on to the old so much to not go towards our dreams. And I nearly killed myself in the process.

11:28And think about how much skills I have. And I still avoided it. How do you figure out what your values are? So one of the exercises I use with my patients that I use that day is to actually do the opposite of what anybody does, which is to lean towards the pain. And the days after that nearly stroke, I sat with myself crying early in the morning for many mornings saying, why does this hurt so much? What about this hurts so much? What is it that is missing? And what is in my life missing? And what I realized is behind that pain, there was a value that's being violated. It's not that I didn't care about ambition anymore.

12:10It's that what I really cared about is I wanted to make a bigger impact on the world. And I knew that the things I was doing were not aligned with impact. They make impact on the patients that I work for sure. But I saw the world hurting. I saw the rise in anxiety from the CDC of 40 % of Americans with clinical level of anxiety and depression. And here I was sitting in my little house with all the skills that my grandmother gave me, that science gave me. And I wasn't doing anything with it. I wanted to create a podcast. I didn't have a podcast. I wanted to write a book. I hadn't written a book.

12:44I wanted to go out there and meet people like you. And I wasn't doing it. And when I leaned into that pain, I saw impact. And I was like, wait a minute. I need to change my entire life. I need to change what I do. And so that's my recommendation. to lean towards the pain and ask yourself, why does this hurt? The transition that you're describing is one that I recently went through over the last two years. And I knew that there was something that I valued more than chasing more success. And it was about connection and impact and peace and family and simplicity. And you can have more than one value, right?

13:29A hundred percent. You can have more value. other. But slow it down for us, Mel. Can you just tell me a little bit about the beginning of this transition and like chasing success and no longer feeling like success did it? Well, yeah. Like I, I, um, I think like a lot of people somewhere along the line, I got the message that achievement equals love. Yes. That if you're performing, if you're busy, if you are making a lot of money, if you're winning awards, if you're doing things that people talk about, that that means you're worthy of somebody's love and attention. That was a value that I was trying to create in myself.

14:08What started to happen for me is that once I got to a level of success where I had paid off our debt and I was actively saving money and I could afford to do whatever I wanted to do. I'm like, I'm not talking Lamborghinis and that kind of crap, but like just had a really great lifestyle and was proud of myself. I wasn't happy. Yeah. And like you, I felt like an asshole. You didn't use that word, but I'll use that word with myself. I'm like, what kind of an asshole are you? You're sitting here making an impact on millions of people's lives. You are being flown first class all over the place. You can afford to eat anywhere you want.

14:52What the fuck is wrong with you? Yeah. And what was wrong with me is one of my core values was severely violated. Yeah. I was profoundly disconnected from my husband, from my kids. I had exactly two friends that I saw. And so I was profoundly lonely and I was never not working. And so something's got to give. And what actually gave is March 8th of 2020. Yeah. The world turned upside down and I found myself like the entire planet found themselves. Questioning absolutely everything. The greatest gift is it made me really assess what my values truly were. and when my husband and our three kids were then under one roof together, it made me realize how much that's all I wanted to do was be with them.

15:53I'm like, you know what? Mel, it's time to stop talking about and thinking about doing a podcast. It's time to get serious about it. That was the moment for me. It was values driven. And I asked you the question It's not how you figure out your values because it's a surprisingly hard thing to do. It is so hard. It is so hard. And you actually unpacked so much because, you know, I think the world has gone through a value shift in this pandemic. How so? Because the things, the values that worked before the pandemic no longer fit for most people. Right? People now, we hear people talking about they want more flexibility in their job.

16:31They want to work from home. Why? Because they realized the family mattered and it was being compromised by the way they worked and did their family time. Right. But most people now haven't had the privilege of what you have of being able to pause and reflect. Right. A lot of people are still in the treadmill of life. That's what I see in my office. People call me and they're still trying to fit their old values to this post pandemic life. It needs a realignment. And how do you find your values is your question. So I talked about pain. The other way to find values, which I think is what happened to you, is this.

17:03Lean into the moments that you feel your best. Okay. What about the moments? What's so important? Right. You talked about being with your family. The way you said, you know, my three kids and my husband, you lighten up. I could just see you in your living room with them. And if I went behind your brain, I could see just Mel being content, connected and present. Yes. Right. versus Mel on that plane. And you're craving that connection, that real connection with family. And so in those moments of like flow, in those moments of quietness, ask yourself, what matters in this moment? Why is this moment important to me?

17:43Why do I feel good? And that's our values are right there. Dr. Luana, I just love you. You are so awesome. I feel better already. And we've only just begun. Let's take a quick pause. Let's hear a word from our sponsors. they can bring us your extraordinary wisdom and advice for zero cost. We'll be right back.

18:09Welcome back. I'm Mel Robbins, and I am getting a personal coaching and therapy session about moving through transition from none other than Dr. Luana. All right, Dr. Luana, let's talk about the transition that my daughter's going through. How can I help her cope with this massive life transition? So I think there's two things that you can do now. The first one is I think we need to help you cope with the transition. I'm sorry to say, but the transition for you too, right? It's a big transition for you, right? It's ending at times she's coming home. And I heard you say things like what's next for her, right?

18:50We all have expectations of other people in transition too. So I think first thing is just you pausing and asking yourself about your expectations of her transition. You are so good. Wow. Here's how I feel about it. I am very triggered by her anxiety. And so knowing that one of my kids is really uncomfortable makes me want to run and save her from it. What about her anxiety makes you feel uncomfortable? What are you saying to yourself that her anxiety makes you feel anxious? That somebody that I love is in pain and I want to make it go away. Why? I don't know. because it hurts my heart to see her crying and sad.

19:46Because you love her. Yeah. And also there'll probably be a level of moping and annoying behavior that gets aimed at my husband and I when she's home and she's not able to tolerate like the feelings and the fact that it's over and that college went like that. and her fear about what comes next. And so knowing that there will be a level of discomfort makes me uncomfortable. Well, but for you now, what I hear is this. You love your daughter. Yes. And her being uncomfortable, it's being translated in your brain. Something is bad. True. And let's be clear. There's no transition without discomfort for anybody.

20:33She's going to have some level of discomfort that she has to tolerate and do you have to tolerate. If she didn't, something would be wrong. It's true. Right. So the first thing is her being uncomfortable and her anxiety don't necessarily mean something bad. Now, it can lead to something bad. But at first, I want us to really think about this as an opportunity for a new beginning. Right. She's closing in and there's a natural grief that happens for everybody. You're letting go of the old. Yeah. And so she's going to come home with some level of discomfort. A lot of the kids coming home from college are going to have some love with discomfort.

21:08And I think the first thing the parents can do is allow discomfort to exist a little bit. Maybe not going into fixed right away. Right. And if it gets thrown at you like the way you're talking about, just pausing and calling it out. Saying, hey, listen, it looks like you're upset and you're throwing it at me. And this is not my transition. Yeah. Holding space from discomfort is the first thing a parent can do. Well, I think this is even bigger. I just want to run towards it and try to fix it and make it go away. And I think you're right. It's that I, in my brain, associate these transitions in life and these moments of emotional processing and upheaval as bad.

21:50Yeah. And so you are trying to fix it. You know, I had a friend of mine just got fired from a job after 10 years, financial industry. She just woke up one day and got fired. So she texted me. I canceled everything. said let's go for lunch we're sitting at lunch and the first thing she said to me is like you know Luana a week ago I was walking into work and I just wanted my ID to not go through I wanted them to have fired me already I was so miserable but I just I just didn't want to quit it pays the bills and so and I looked at her and I said we're best friends and you never told me that level of discomfort people are so ashamed of how they interpret discomfort they don't even share And then I looked at her and I said, how are you feeling?

22:33She's like, no, I'm okay. I'm okay. And I paused and I looked at her. Let me call her Mary. And I said, Mary, it's okay not to be okay. And for a week now, when I called her, she's like, it's okay. I said, it is not okay. You just got fired and you're the one that pays most of the bills in your house. If you're not feeling uncomfortable right now, something is wrong. And I want you to know it's okay not to be okay. It's okay to have this comfort right now. And if you run from it, you're just going to avoid the rest of your life. So the first step here in transition is to feel our feelings. Right?

23:07I don't want to feel my feelings. I know. I feel like I wanted to not feel that way. Yeah, but see, that's the only way to feel more uncomfortable is not feeling our feelings. So feelings are normal, biologically wired. And we have them. Our brain tells us when we're feeling uncomfortable. And then what we do, we run. we avoid and then we feel more uncomfortable and the only way of actually getting through your emotions is by feeling feelings we've seen this on kids look at a five-year-old in a temper tantrum yeah right if you tell them stop feeling this way stop feeling this way they escalate they get so loud and obnoxious it's true if you sit next to a five-year-old and say okay so you yeah you're feeling frustrated what else are you feeling and my son will be like i don't want to tell my emotions right now?

23:59I said, okay, so you're feeling like you don't, you don't want to feel. And I just sit there and I wait. And guess what? His emotional brain cools off. His thinking brain comes back online and it lasts three minutes instead of 20 minutes of a fight. Hmm. So what do I do? Yeah. So I think, I think two things we're going to do. Oh, that's right. We were talking about me, not her. See how I wanted to shift this? Do you know why? I'm avoiding you making me talk about something that makes me uncomfortable. You're absolutely. I just, I just, you just wanted to run away from your emotions right now. Yes.

24:38Do you see how fast it happens now? Yes. So, and we do this. That's one of the tactics of avoidance. We just shift the conversation. It's much safer in your podcast to talk about your daughter and her transition, her anxiety, than to sit here with, I'm having trouble feeling my feelings right now. Yeah. I'm absorbing her transition as my own. Yeah. Wow. So I just need to feel my feelings. Yeah. I need to avoid the urge to rush in and fix it. And I need to just hold space. Yeah. And let her and myself feel whatever we're going to feel. And what do you feel right now? Can we just stay with that?

25:16What does it feel like right now? I feel really sad for her. Tell me more. Oh, my God. Really? Yeah. I feel like the tractor beam lock on. I feel really sad for her. I had a really crappy end to my college experience where I got extremely sick and they thought I had meningitis. And I experienced graduation by laying underneath a tree on the side. And I didn't get, I don't even remember walking across that stage. I'm not sure I was well enough. So you're really sad about yourself, Mel. That's what you're really sad about. You didn't have a graduation. Yeah. But see, your brain is back at your graduation.