The Power of Being a Morning Person

0:07Welcome everybody to the mindset mentor podcast I'm your host Rob dial if you have not yet done. So hit that subscribe button so you never miss another podcast episode. Today, I'm sitting down with my good friend and buddy, amazing author, self-published, now going into the traditional route. His name's Hal Elrod. If you guys don't know, Hal, I actually met back in 2006. He was on stage and was at a Cutco conference and talked about how he was a coach. And I was like, hey, I need a coach. So I hired him and his best friend, John Berghoff, in 2006 to be my coaches and throughout the process, he started a podcast.

0:44He wrote a book and he wrote this book called The Miracle Morning, which you've probably heard of before. This is in all honesty, probably the book that started everyone talking about having a morning routine about 10 or 11 years ago. And it's kind of crazy how I'll tell you a story about this. I remember when it first came out, I remember your first book and I read your first book. And then I remember when this book came out and it seemed like it was like gaining some traction and you were pushing it and you were pushing, you were pushing it. And then I was like, two or three years later, I was like, man, he's still pushing this book.

1:16Like, is it, is it, is it selling? Like what's going on with it? But I think what happened is you probably saw what you saw, you were on stage, you saw people coming up to you, you saw the ground, like the, the, the grassroots of how it was moving. And so throughout you, you've wrote this book now 10 years ago, and you've basically, as you told me, almost rewrote the entire book with the same shell. So it was originally 150 pages. It's now around 220 pages. And the cool thing about it is when you wrote the book 10 years ago, it was when you were kind of new at Miracle Morning. And now it's like you have 10 years of, actually more than 10 years of you doing it personally.

1:5015 years of me doing it and 11 years of other people doing it. And it's not bullshit, which is what I love about it. It's not like you're one of the people who like says do this and you don't do it. I've been to a Dave Matthews concert with you and your wife and halfway through Dave Matthews, Ursula, your wife goes, we got to leave miracle morning. So it's actually something that you really truly do. And it's not like you just preach it and don't follow through on it. So what made you decide to, to rewrite the book, add more to it. And, you know, now have these stories of seeing it change people's lives.

2:21Why is now the time to do this after selling, you know, 2 million copies on your own? Yeah. Yeah. It's so I've, when, when I was writing the miracle morning and to your point, like I started doing the miracle morning in 2008, I started sharing with my coaching clients and like the light bulb went off after a few months i'm like this is changing people's lives and most of them were complaining like i'm not a morning person how i'm like i know i know neither was i try it yeah and then what ended up happening is the feedback is like oh my gosh it's changing my life and i went if it's changing their life and they weren't quote unquote morning people and it's changed my life and i wasn't a morning person this could change the world right this could change anybody's life and i felt a sense of responsibility like i have to share this right and so i have to write a book and i'm a slow writer took me three years to write the miracle morning.

3:03Nobody knew I self-published it, right? 2012. But when I went during that process, the big book, the most famous book at that time was Four Hour Workweek by Tim Ferriss. And two years after he wrote that book, which I loved, right? I read it. I reread it. I talked about it. I shared it. He wrote the Four Hour Workweek updated and expanded edition. And so even though I was literally writing the original edition, I was like, oh, this is so interesting. Maybe one day in the future, I'll write an updated edition of this book I'm currently writing. yeah and there's two things number one is i always say the miracle morning elevates your consciousness as a human being like it helps you be more aware and intentional about how your thoughts your words and your actions are impacting your life and the lives of every person that you you touch you know friends family colleagues whatever right whoever you're influencing through your interactions you're becoming a better version of yourself from the miracle morning practice and so in the last 15 years of doing the miracle morning and 11 years since the book published i would hope that my consciousness is elevated i'm much more aware and intentional um and i've been interacting with you know millions of i mean not literally millions but there's millions of miracle morning practitioners and i've interacted with you know tens of thousands of them over the last decade and i've learned so much not only in the way my own practice has evolved but from members of the community right like oh that's a brilliant idea that's great and i've gone you know to meditation retreats and really deepened like when i wrote the book it was very much like Like, hey, if you're new to meditation and affirmations, I'm kind of new, but I'm like a level above, if you will.

4:35Here's how you do them. And now it's like, oh, you know, I didn't know what I didn't know back then. You've been doing it for 15 years. For 15 years. And so, yeah, so this book, I literally went through and I rewrote every page from a higher level of consciousness, if you will, right? Right. And I added over 70 pages of brand new content, including two of the biggest requests have always been or the one of the biggest requests always when you can do the miracle evening. Like what's your miracle evening? And I used to be embarrassed like I didn't have much of an evening ritual. Yeah. And then I kind of realized studying that.

5:09But wait, how you end the day might be almost as important as how you begin the day. For sure. And so the miracle evening is, you know, a 20 plus page chapter now. And then the book I've had on my heart the last two years that I've been working on as I've been rewriting this is called The Miracle Life. And that book, I didn't want to wait to give that content to the world. So there's a 20 plus page chapter called The Miracle Life. And that's really about a paradigm for personal fulfillment, a path to inner freedom. Like, look, we've all been blessed with one life. I think at the end of our lives, we're going to look back and go, man, I wasted so much energy being stressed, afraid, depressed.

5:46worrying about stuff that just life happened why didn't i enjoy every moment of that one life i was blessed to live and that's what the miracle life is so that's awesome

6:02yeah that's it's really interesting because it's like it's it's such like if somebody hasn't read the miracle morning i've it's funny because i i feel like it's just it's huge and like everybody's read it. And then you look at it's like 2 million is a lot, but there's so many people that haven't read it. 8 billion that we still have to read. There's a lot of people that haven't. And so the thing about it is it's, it's crazy because it's such an anomaly to sell, you know, a hundred thousand copies self-published to do a million copies self-published is even crazier, but to do 2 million shows you like, there's something about this book that's connected with people that's changed people's lives.

6:38And that's, what's so awesome about the whole thing is that like, Like, I don't know if you ever sat back and been like, holy shit, two million copies self-publish is like one of the rarest things that you could possibly do as far as an accomplishment. So that's a huge thing. But and I want you to realize that is like it's it's amazing that you have done that. Good. Thank you. Thank you for sure. But the what I really want to know about is like, what's the difference in like, OK, so you went through and there was Hal who wrote it and you were how old when you first wrote it? Yeah, 27, 28 when I started.

7:09Okay. And so you're how old now? 44. So it's like, okay, anybody out there is like, if you wrote a book at 26, 27, 28, you have that knowledge that's there. But an extra 15 years, 16 years of knowledge and wisdom that you've gotten from it, what do you feel are some of the biggest changes that you, or adjustments that you made to the book that's different where you read it and you're like, man, this is good, but I'm so young and I'm so, there's like parts of it where you're probably like, oh man. Oh, they're cringeworthy. Right? Like, it's kind of like when you hear your voice, like on video from a few years ago, you're like, oh my God, turn that off.

7:41I can't. I sound so nasally. Yeah. When I reread my book, I'm like, what is this? I was a, well, how immature, this is so cheesy. Like, so I've wondered, that's another selfish reason I've wanted to rewrite it for a long time is when I read it, I'm like, I'm like rolling my eyes. I'm like, how do people take this seriously? How is this sold 2 million copies? Like, literally. Why are people buying this? I mean, literally, I'm like embarrassed. And I'm like, I want to rewrite this right now. And luckily, well, here's what's interesting. As a self-published author, one of the benefits is I've uploaded a new version of the book.

8:13Like not a completely updated book, but I've gone through and I have like, because I read, you know, there's 32 ,000 reviews on Amazon now. I haven't read all of them, but I have read many thousands. And I always wanted to look like I'd read not just the five star to be like, oh, people like it. But I read the one, the two, the three star, almost more so and go, what are the common themes where I didn't quite hit the mark or I was tone deaf in these areas? And so over the last 11 years, I've updated, I think, three times where early on, like after a year or two, I was like, OK, multiple people are saying this same thing.

8:50And so I would go in and I would change those parts and then I'd upload a new PDF to Amazon and there'd be a new book. right so i was able to slightly do that over the years but um the uh now it was literally going through every i took about took about eight months for me to um rewrite like eight months of writing every day as if it were a new book to rewrite it and then my editor who is also the ceo and founder of bin bella the my publisher i mean he was like i want this book to be the best it can be so how i don't usually do this he's like i'm actually going to be your editor i was like awesome that's amazing and he was amazing and um and and so what was great is he would actually go a lot of some of the stuff i rewrote he was like he actually would say he's like okay so this part way better but you you went too far off on the rewrite right like i'm i think you should change this back to how it was so right there's some parts for sure that like like the way i told a story is like you told it better and initially um yeah but there's obviously some magic that's there that you don't want to take the magic out of it and that was actually the a fear too right it's like okay this book i i it it works yeah right if it's not fixed don't bro don't fuck it up literally i labeled this is funny so a little bonus tip for people um when i when i the the word document the microsoft word document the manuscript that i was rewriting i labeled it if it's not broken don't tmm for the miracle morning if it's not broken don't fix it yeah like literally just remind me don't change too much but i'll give you an example so when i started when i wrote that meditation was new to me when I wrote the first version.

10:23I've developed this meditation that I call emotional optimization meditation. I don't know if I made it up or it's in my subconscious from someone else. I think I made it up, but it's rather than just clearing your mind, it's actually identifying what's the optimal mental and emotional state that I need to be in today that would serve today. And maybe if it's on the weekends with your kids, it's I need to be playful, right? Or maybe if you had a fight with your spouse, it's I need to be at a pace of like love and forgiveness or on an average day what you would teach is like i need to be focused today right for sure and so i identify what's the number one mental emotional state that i need to embody today and then i use different techniques to get into that state then i set my meditation timer and i i like the word marinate like i meditate or marinate in that state so i'm programming my central nervous system my subconscious to embody it and then now i can show up at my best for the people I love, the people that I lead in that state, whether it's for my kids or my wife or my clients or whatever.

11:20Right. So, so that's an example. Like there's a detailed in-depth part of that. Another quick, you're like a chicken in a plastic bag. You're just marinating, marinating during that meditation. Huh? That's what you're doing. That's it. That's awesome. I love that. I love that idea. So you were, you were continuing. I didn't want to interrupt you, but that's the way I think about it where it's actually like, I hear so many times that people are like, I struggle with meditation. I struggle with meditation. I struggle with meditation. But if you think about it, instead of like, I'm going to turn my brain off, it's like, I'm going to use my brain to think about how I emotionally want to feel throughout the day.

11:49And just like dropping a chicken inside of some lemon pepper inside of a bag, I'm just going to marinate in that for the next 15 minutes. That's it. So, okay. So you're continuing about how you use it. Yeah. And by the way, feel free. I'm long-winded. So you interrupt any time that you want. No worries. So yeah, the other one is affirmations. Affirmations is my favorite. And in fact, let me back up for anybody new to the Miracle Morning. So the Miracle Morning is made up of six practices, right? You know this, but in case anyone doesn't. So it's silence. So by the way, the six practices are the savers, the acronym S A V E R S silence, affirmations, visualization, exercise, reading, and scribing.

12:25And if you actually, if you look at those, those are the six most timeless proven personal development practices in the history of mankind. Like that, you know, that the world's most successful people from Olympian Olympic athletes to, you know, multimillionaire entrepreneurs to you name it that they have sworn by for centuries right i didn't invent any of them but according to robert kiyosaki he said how before the savers no successful person i'm aware of did all six of these they might have been one or two maybe three he said but the way you package them and made it so easy to go through and do all six of the most timeless practices um but affirmations is my favorite of the practices like whenever somebody's like do you have a favorite of the savers i always joke it's like politically correct to be like no they're all equally important you need all of them just like my children yeah yeah i love them all but i'm like honestly it's affirmations because the way affirmations have been taught for maybe decades by self-help they're corny yeah it's it's it's one of two problems either we're taught to tell ourselves something we wish were true that's not true to us right like i am a millionaire right if you're struggling financially you're like i am financially free and your bullshit meter's going off the whole yeah your subconscious is like dude you're lying what do you do you're lying right and now you're creating an unnecessary internal conflict is if we don't have enough of them the second problem is we're taught to use this flowery passive language yeah that makes us better feel better in the moment because it's like this imaginary everything's going to get better great example i am a money magnet right i hate that money flows to me effortlessly and in abundance right yeah and so i teach affirmations in this very specific tangible measurable way so in that book like it's it's like a master class affirmations workshop because the original book i thought i taught it well enough but it wasn't deep enough where people are like i don't get like how do i get affirmations are hard for me and i'm like so again an example of like i was able to it's like there's like 17 pages i think just on affirmations oh my god don't quote me i'm making that up but it's like it's it's this really long you know and i give examples and then yeah so that's awesome so then so it's s-a-v-e-r-s so So in the last S is scribe, which stands for journaling.

14:36Scribing, journaling. Yeah. And so it makes sense. So it wasn't saver J or saver J. It was originally, literally when I was writing the book, it was saver plus J. And that bothered me. And I was telling my wife one day, I remember the moment I met her in the hallway. She goes, you look frustrated. What's up? I'm like, I've got this acronym, but it's like not really a complete acronym. And it's kind of, and she goes, why don't you get a thesaurus and see if there's another word for journaling? It's perfect. And it was scribing. And I'm like, that's amazing. Yeah. So the thing that I like about it though is, is, and that's kind of what you said is that there's six practices that you use.

15:10And these are six practices that if anybody implemented any of them into life, it would start to work with them. So it's like silence, sitting there in silence and meditating, doing affirmations, doing visualization, doing exercises, doing reading, doing journaling, all of those things are going to help you in some sort of way. But what you've kind of done is said, Hey, if you have, if you wake up an hour early and there's six of them, take 10 minutes each and just do each one of them. Or 30 minutes early, do five minutes each. Right. Or six minutes early, there's a six minute miracle morning.

15:39Literally, like that's a whole chapter in the book on, yeah, you can get it. Yeah, so you can do it at any point in time. Yeah. What's the importance, I'm curious, of doing all of them at one time in the morning versus just saying, well, I'm going to pick two or three of them. Yeah. I'm going to answer that question and another question that is kind of could be wrapped into it, which is a lot of people say, okay, the savers, I'm sold. Like doing the six most timeless personal, sure. But why in the morning? Can I do, I'm not a morning person in the afternoon or the evening. Right. And, um, and here's the answer is they'll benefit you in the afternoon or in the evening.

16:10But when you do them first thing in the morning, there's immediate benefits, right? When you meditate, it lowers your cortisol levels. There's over 1400 scientific studies that prove the benefits of meditation. In fact, that was like 10 years ago. There's probably 10 times that many studies. Right. Um, so if you wait to meditate until the evening, you missed out on lowering your cortisol levels and gaining mental clarity, right? And so when you do affirmations, they focus your mindset on what you're committed to, what you're capable of, what you're going to do to get where you want to go. That directs your focus for the day.

16:41If you wait till the evening, you've missed out. And if you exercise in the morning, right, more energy. So all of the savers benefit you immediately. And then there's a lasting benefit after. So when you start your day with a miracle morning, you put yourself in a peak physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual state to win the day. And so that's why first thing in the morning. So that's the big picture answer. And then in terms of doing some in the morning, some later, I think that's fine. Like the beauty of the miracle morning, there's a whole chapter toward the end of the book on customizing the miracle morning to achieve your goals.

17:14And if you just wake up and do one of the savers, that's still a miracle morning, right? You're missing out on the benefits of the others. But yeah, so I don't think there's a problem with doing some in the morning. What I always share in the book, it ends with a 30-day challenge or now it's a 30-day journey because I say in the new book, I'm like, we have enough challenges. Let's go on a journey together, right? But I say, just do all six. And for the 30-day challenge or 30-day journey, and then you'll know, you won't know what you don't know if you don't do all six in the morning. And then you might be like, I actually wanna do the exercise first.

17:50Like for me now, I start every morning with 60 seconds of jumping jacks just because it gets the blood flow into my brain. Now I'm thinking clear. My brain's turned on. And then I do a full workout at the end of the miracle morning. I go out to my gym and, you know, and I work out. But yeah, so it's like doing all of them in the morning. Then you'll know which ones benefit you the most, which ones you might go, you know what? I'm actually going to move this one to after lunch where I'm going to double it up and I'll do, a lot of people say they'll do savers in the morning and they'll do like a mini savers later in the day or in the evening.

18:19So, yeah. What's some of, you know, when you first wrote the book, obviously it was like you had a little bit of experience with some of your coaching clients. And that was like a small sample size. But now you have this massive sample size. You have 38 ,000 reviews or whatever it is that came in. Two million copies sold. I'm sure you get emails all the time. There's people that download your app. There's all of this. What are some of the stories that were just like, holy shit, I can't believe this actually happened from someone just waking up and implementing Savers into their day? Yeah. And there's so many, right?

18:48And I just went through, I went through, you know, to put them all, the new ones in the book. But they're really profound. And this is, let me say this. when you said, man, it's been like three years. How still talking about Miracle Morning? This is why. Because I was still reading every new Amazon review that came in. It's like, oh my gosh, I was depressed for the last six months. I read this book. I'm on day 14, my 30th challenge. I'm not depressed anymore. This has changed my life. How could I not keep talking about this and sharing it with as many people as I can? So I really think this is my life's work.

19:19I've written other books and such. Here's some of the stories. Mike Eaton, and for those that don't know, there is a miracle morning movie right there's a documentary uh and so we featured some of the stories in that movie one of them was mike eaton mike eaton had been obese his entire life uh made fun of in high school um and uh and then and he had read he had tried diets and nothing worked friends like hey read the miracle morning not to lose weight but just read the miracle morning the miracle morning when he applied all the savers he created affirmations like i want to weigh this much i'm committed to do these things so that i can lose the weight you know and right He visualized himself eat all of the things within, it's been a long time since I don't want to get the numbers wrong, but it's something along the lines of within his first two months of doing the Miracle Morning, he lost something like 50 pounds.

20:03And now he's down like 80 pounds from like 330, I think, to 250, right? And he credits it's because of the Miracle Morning. So that's something where I wouldn't imagine losing weight. Another guy who's in the movie, Keith Minnick, and he's in the book. Keith, his son died at three hours old, right? So they had a child born and the child died three hours later. And him and his wife both went into a deep depression. I believe he was the director of business development at Turner Home Broadcasting at the time. And he said basically he was disenfranchised with his work because he's like, what's the point?

20:37Why are we even doing this? Why should I live? It doesn't matter. And I think it was like a year of that. And he had read books on grief. Someone said, hey, try this thing, The Miracle Morning. It's changing my life. and in Keith's own words in the book he talks about his very first miracle morning he was like oh I'm in control of the way that I feel I don't have to be depressed anymore over my son's death I'm I'm I'm not depressed anymore like he goes it didn't take months of the miracle morning it was the first miracle morning where he completely shifted his paradigm around the way he was experiencing the death of his son um and you know and and then you know he talked about 10 years later he still does the miracle morning every single day and he talked about how it's evolved and he's evolved and you know and it was like the best example of like how the miracle morning can change your life in one day and continue to be changing your life a decade later right and there's tons of stories of people that like they finally overcame their procrastination and wrote that book that was on their mind the miracle morning helped them start that business it helped them, you know, run a marathon.

21:43I mean, it's just, you name it here. Let me say this. The way to put it is this, whatever your, whatever you want to accomplish in your life, when you apply the savers, the miracle morning, every morning, you become the person that you need to be to accomplish that thing. Whether it's losing weight, making money, transforming your marriage, you know, it's really universal. Yeah. I mean, it comes down to like, if we just make it real basic, it's just being intentional with your life. And so many people are just so unintentional and they just wake up. and I did this for years like for years and years and years I woke up and when I still worked for someone else and I had to drive into an office I'd wake up you know 15 minutes before I had to leave I'd jump in the shower real quick on the way there I'd stop at Taco Cabana and I get some breakfast tacos and coffee and then I roll into there and I'd been up for like 30 minutes and it was just like but it was just it was just as my ex first girlfriend I ever had her dad used to always say to me she used to always say it's same shit different toilet is all that it was right it's just like every day felt exactly the same.

22:41And just like I could, I could take yesterday and I could place it on tomorrow and all of it felt exactly the same. And I think the key to it is that you decide that you're going to first off, wake up earlier, which is not always easy, you know, or go to bed earlier so that you could do it. And it's easier to stay inside of your bed, but it's, it's literally like from the moment your alarm clock goes off, you go, I'm going to choose me today. And so many people have not done that. I was interviewed yesterday on a guy's podcast who said it took him 50 years to wake up, you know, but he was in depression and all of this stuff.

23:13And it's like, at some point he just went, you know what, I'm going to choose me. And that's kind of what, what's important about it is it's like, all right, it's going to be important for me to wake up in the morning and for me to choose me and actually start to put some action to it. And instead of being reactive to the world, I'm going to be proactive. I'm going to actually start to put some intention into my life. Yeah. Yeah, it is. It's how you start your day. This was Steve Pavlina, uh, uh, who wrote the book personal development for smart people. He said, how you start your day sets the tone, the context and the direction of the day you're able to create for sure.

23:42You know, and that's it. Yeah. So then, um, with, with this, I'm curious with, uh, with your children, because what we were talking about and what I do want to talk about is how this is going into school. So do your children do this with you? How old are your kids? First off to people who don't know your children, how old are they? And do they do the miracle morning with you? Have they resisted it? What does that look like? Yeah, my daughter is 14, going on 20, 25. And my son is about to turn 11, right? So 14 and 11. And they do not do the miracle morning. We used to do the miracle morning when they were younger.

24:14And my daughter, as she became a teenager, was like, I don't do this anymore, Dad. And so it is interesting being a parent and seeing the phases, right? Where I've talked to other parents where there are times where your child, you're like, whoa, who are you? Like, this isn't the person I've been raising. And you, and they, you start to feel like they're slipping away and then they come back, you know, like it's really phases. And I remember seeing that when my daughter was like, I don't know, five, seven years old, I think. And she like, was this like, all of a sudden went from being a sweet girl to like, just attitude and this and that.

24:44I'm like, Sophie. And like, and nothing got through to her. And then it lasted for like a few weeks or a month. And then she was being nice again. And I was like, you're so sweet. I was like, you, you know, there was a period there for a few weeks where you were really, she's like, dad, that Sophia is gone and she is never coming back. And she has for sure come back, but you learn like she, she's returned. She returns and then she goes, yeah, it's interesting. But, but so, yeah, so they, we've done the miracle morning through phases. I've tried to get my daughter to write the miracle morning for teens, the miracle morning for kids.

25:15And it's like, she will, then she won't. So it is funny. So when I, people are like, you know, how do you do the miracle morning with kids? I'm like, when you figure that out, I'm like, let me know. Cause I've actually struggled. And we did now I will say, um, there are many parents that it's, it's almost embarrassing for you to be like, I'm not the parent that figured it out. Well, no, the good thing about it though, before you say it is, is like, cause first off, the good thing that I like about it is that you're not forcing it onto your children, which means they're most likely going to come back around to it and enjoy it because you're not forcing it onto them.

25:42Right. Which is the best part. So you can finish what you were saying, but there's no reason to be like, Oh my God, I'm the miracle morning that my children should be like masters at this miracle morning. It's also the closer you are. It's like dad's telling us to do this right yeah my wife doesn't listen anything that i say exactly i have people that tune in and listen to this and it's the same with my wife people go how do you get your wife to do the miracle morning or your spouse i'm like let me know when you figure that out we've done probably eight miracle mornings together in our entire life oh my god that's times where she's like i'm gonna because when i was on robert kiyosaki's podcast years ago him and his wife do the miracle morning and he said we grow close it helps us grow closer so that we don't grow apart oh my god and i sent that clip to my wife and uh i'm like hey don't you want to grow closer so we don't grow apart and uh and then she's like yes let's do miracle morning and that lasted for like you know a week or whatever and then she's like i just you know so but we're so close right she's like i don't want to do your miracle morning thing yeah um anyway but uh but but i will say this uh there is a book called the miracle morning for parents and families that i co-authored with mike and lindsey mccarthy and i caught her both awesome people i know both of them awesome people they came up to me with an event and she's like hey my son tyler and i think he was six at the time and this was i don't even know he's probably 13 14 now um she said we do the miracle morning with our kids every day and he wanted to share his affirmations with you and i'm like okay and he comes up and he reads me his affirmations and they were in alphabetical order you know it's like that's amazing and we start i start talking i'm like how did you get him to the miracle morning so they're i mean so they have an amazing system and they do the miracle morning with their kids every day and they have for like seven years you know so if you want to learn how to do it yeah um you know miracle morning for parents and families yeah yeah that's good i mean the The thing about it, man, is like I see too many people.

27:19It's too many people try to push things onto their children. The more that you push something onto somebody, the more they're going to resist it. You know, that was the thing I realized with with my wife when we first started dating is I was like so into personal development. And I had this podcast and I was like, I'd buy your books and I'd be like, let's go to a conference. And she's like, no, I don't really want to. And then eventually after a few years, I was like, OK, she's just not into it. No big deal. I guess this is my thing. No, that's fine. Like some people like basketball. Some people like football.