Brazil’s singing ambassador: Antonio Patriota discusses diplomacy and his new album ‘Meio do Céu’

0:13Antonio Patriota, the Brazilian ambassador to the UK, is no strange to the pages of Monaco. Our foreign editor Alexis Self spoke with him for our issue 178 last year. But what many might not know is that he's also a very talented musician. His new album, Meio do Céu, is already out in the streaming platforms. A great mix of samba, blues and even fado. It was a pleasure speaking with the ambassador in our studio about music this time.

0:49And I look for my heart

0:58What brings us a need The best truth is to live Antonio Patriota, the ambassador of Brazil to the United Kingdom. Welcome to Monaco Radio. Thank you. I'm happy to be here. We're not discussing only diplomacy and politics here. We're discussing music. You are also a musician, and that's fascinating. Perhaps you are the only ambassador in town that can have also released albums? Well, I wouldn't bet on that because many colleagues also play an instrument, some of them much better than I do. I'm not a professional musician, but I studied classical piano when I was growing up. And I've always had this desire to compose and to produce music.

1:47So about 10 years ago, I started doing this. The professional aspect of what I record is to a great extent thanks to my producer, Leo Gundelman. who's maybe the major saxophone player in Brazil, a very experienced musician, and someone who believed in me. Was there a case, let's remember, of a young patriota? You were growing up, you knew you wanted to be a diplomat, or were you seriously considering perhaps to have the career of a musician? Well, my father was a diplomat, so I grew up traveling around the world and living in different countries. I always loved music and art, and, let's say, the humanities.

2:29I studied philosophy at university, and I have to confess that diplomacy was not love at first sight for me because when I looked at the lifestyle of diplomats, it seemed to be a little bit too much determined by protocol and unwritten rules, etc., and I was kind of bohemian when I was younger. But at some point, I realized that I was also very intrinsically Brazilian and that I spoke languages. I had been exposed to an international life. So it seemed to me like a good fit to work for Brazil, continue traveling, and maybe on the side, develop something artistic as I went along. I mean, you mentioned being very Brazilian.

3:15I think if there is a country in the world that can teach other countries how to loosen up a bit, it would be Brazil, right? Yes, that's true. It's curious because in Brazil, you have a rather relaxed lifestyle, but within diplomacy, you have a rather ceremonial and hierarchical, let's say, working environment. So reconciling the two is not always obvious. Yes, that's a good answer. Of course, I want to talk to you about your new music that's coming out later this month. But you have already albums. I have two albums in front of me, Estuario and Geografia do Sentimento. But your name as a musician is actually Tonio Jagiar.

3:56So is that a way to separate your diplomatic side and your musician side? Absolutely, yes. Well, I decided to create a different persona for my musical work. and Tonio is a nickname for Antonio, is how my siblings called me. And Aguiar is actually my middle name. You know, in the Iberian, Latin American tradition, we use both the last name of our father and our mother. And my Aguiar relatives were actually all very musical. So was my father, by the way. But I grew up less in contact with my father's family. So to some degree, it's a tribute to the musicality of my forebears. You play a different style.

4:39You know, there's a little bit of samba, a little bit of bossa, a little bit of blues, quite a lot of blues and jazz as well. For the new, the upcoming album, which is called Meio do Cell, is it any different perhaps from your previous releases? Or what can you tell us about this new album? There are a few new aspects. One of them is that I sing more. At first, I was very shy about singing. So I invited, in fact, extraordinary singers like Paolo Morelimbaum, who sings a song in Italian in my previous album, a young singer from Rio called Terca Ferreira, João Cavalcanti, who sings a Carnaval do Ano Que Vem, a samba song.

5:20But as I went along and I tried singing, again, my producer decided that it sounded good and good enough and that I should pursue this to the extent that I felt comfortable doing it. So in this new work, there are 13 songs in the new album and I sing in eight of them, actually in three different languages in Portuguese, English and Spanish. Well, you mentioned different languages. There's one track of the album that we've just listened before the interview started. It's called Lusophonia, which of course talks about our Lusophone brothers in Portugal. So there's also a Portuguese accent to it.

6:05Careful not to translate our feelings into a meaningless spate. Uphill under a trine Together Lisbon extinguishing time

6:26There is, and I'm kind of proud of this song because to my knowledge, I haven't heard songs before that mix blues and fado, the Portuguese popular music that I find both very beautiful. And so one evening I was walking with my wife through the old part of Lisbon, quite a few hills you go up and down, and this melody came into my head, and I thought of combining the blues with fado, and well, the listeners will decide whether it was a good idea or not. Do you prefer to sing in Portuguese or in English? I have to confess that I spent some important years, my teenage years, in New York growing up.

7:09And it was during the late 60s when there was musical effervescence in the air. I mean, I remember listening to Abbey Road with Friends and then Jimi Hendrix and the whole rock scene, Joni Mitchell, as well as listening for the first time to Bitches Brew by Miles Davis. And all of that really kind of was like I felt grown up listening to all that. you know, although I was 15 or 16. But then I also was very influenced by Brazilian music. You know, my parents listened to a lot of Brazilian music at home. When I was even younger, there were all these festivals in Rio, so names like Milton Nassimiento, Caetan Veloso, Roberto Gil, Chico Buarque emerged, and they're all geniuses and extremely talented people.

7:58and I also studied classical music. So, you know, in a way, I kind of produced a feijoada, you know, a soup with all of this, all these ingredients. More Brazilian impossible. Exactly. And I try not to censor any of the influences that cross my mind. And by the way, I mentioned at the beginning of the interview, you have your side as a diplomat and as a musician, but in a way, they can relate to each other because, for example, you as an ambassador, It's your job as well to bring some of Brazilian culture to people here in the UK. So there is that side that as an ambassador, you have to show that Brazil has the soft power as well.

8:35It's not just kind of about the hard business or politics, correct? Yes, I think you are correct. Diplomacy itself, to a great extent, is soft power. You know, I work with ideas, with arguments, trying to persuade people, trying to uphold national interests, but through language, whether it's spoken or written. And I think when you travel and represent your country abroad, you have to be very sensitive to the local culture also. So for me, London has been a really privileged location because I've always been an enthusiastic fan of the Beatles, the Rolling Stones, the British rock. London is a very musical city.

9:20So it's also a city that welcomed some important Brazilian musicians during our military dictatorship years, like Gilberto Gil, Caetano Veloso. So looking at that aspect, there's already a little narrative here to develop. But if I could add one word as ambassador this time, we're celebrating the bicentennial of Brazil-United Kingdom relations this year. And there will be a cultural season of Brazil here in the UK and a British season in Brazil. I think this will be a great opportunity to update the younger generations and those who have not been exposed to our culture to demonstrate the vitality of Brazilian culture.

10:05You know that this year, for example, Brazilian cinema has received some very important awards, the Oscar for Best Foreign Language Film, and now at the Cannes Film Festival in France, the Best Director and Best Actor went to a Brazilian movie called The Secret Agent, o Agente Secreto. So I agree with you that, you know, diplomacy, culture, whether it's in the visual arts, music, ballet, and also sports to a large extent, you know, football is part of our soft power as well. Well, we hope to win the World Cup next year as well. But what about performing live? Is that something that you feel comfortable as well?

10:46Or when you think of music, you prefer to be in a studio and record that privately? The short answer is I prefer to be in the studio. Because I would go to an Antonio Patriota gig. Well, you know, I have great respect for professional musicians who do this as a full-time job. I do this on the margins of my main activity. And in order for me to present myself with professional musicians, I would have to rehearse quite a bit. I don't rule it out completely. I think in the future, if I have more time to myself, perhaps when I retire. But at the present moment, I'll continue to do it in the studio.

11:27Well, and people need to see the beautiful covers of your previous albums. There's a certain aesthetic to it, and that continues with the new one. So what can you tell us? Have you been working with the same designers for that? Yes, she's a fabulous designer based in Rio called Lola Vaz, V-A-Z. and we've developed this kind of unity regarding the covers and the packaging of the music, usually a black and white photograph and my name has been appearing with the same lettering but in different colors, so quite happy with that as well. And of course, I actually picked the music from Monaco Radio, so I'm going to put you on the spot here.

12:09If there's one track in the album that you think I should consider for the playlist, which one would it be? From the new album? Yes, from Meio do Céu. From Meio do Céu. Well, perhaps to reach an international audience, and you just mentioned lusofonia, which mingles blues and fado. This could be a fun track to kind of inaugurate by dissemination of the new work.

12:56But there's already a single that has been made available last Friday through Spotify called Beyond Mountains. And this is the first time I work with backup vocals to fabulous singers based in Rio. One is American, the other Brazilian. Alma Thomas and Jennifer Rocha. And it's a tribute to a doctor who worked in Haiti and who saved so many lives in Haiti and Rwanda and created a non-governmental organization called Partners in Health. He died two or three years ago, and I was very, very saddened by his premature passing away. I had met him when I lived in the U.S., so this song is a tribute to him, a bit in a gospel, how can I say, pop music style.

13:45We can bear the strain inside the tap-tap Mountains beyond mountains, say the Haitians Struggle down the range to see the ocean Move transparent waters all around us Health and care for all Sing with Dr. Paul I felt the gospel side to it. See another music genre. You're very, I love that. You're very kind of flexible. Eclectic. Eclectic. That's a better word for sure. Ambassador, I have another question to you. You are a very busy man. Not only you're a musician, not only you're the ambassador, but there's also a new book you've just published as well, A Humanist Foreign Policy for a Multipolar World.

14:41What can you tell us about it? Well, this is a collection of essays. I think there are 14 in all that I've written over the past 10 years. Some of them came out originally in English. Others I had translated from Portuguese into English. And my objective here was to make available to an audience that does not read Portuguese some reflections on how Brazil envisages this transition we are experiencing today towards a more multipolar geopolitical distribution of power. What are the challenges? What are the possibilities? What we should strive to preserve? And I like the concept of humanism. I was ambassador to Italy, and humanism was born in Italy during the Renaissance because it emphasizes the importance of truth, scientific knowledge, as opposed to dogma or ideology.

15:38It also emphasizes the power of dialogue and persuasion in contrast with the use of force or pressure. So I feel pleased to describe Brazilian foreign policy as a humanist policy. Of course, we need to convert more governments and societies to humanism in the present world situation because we are witnessing actually a proliferation of conflict, disrespect for international law. So this is my small contribution to encourage more people. There are many who already take an interest in Brazilian foreign policy, but to have access to some of the thinking behind it. That's fantastic. And listen, just going back to the world of music as well, I'm just curious, what do you listen on your spare time?

16:28I mean, do you like to listen to some old songs? Are you interested in new artists as well? So tell us, what are your listening habits? Well, actually, I listen to music all the time at home. A little bit of Marina Lima as well. In the morning, I love to listen to choral music. So there's a fabulous choral tradition here in the United Kingdom, and I listen quite often to British composers, including people like Elgar, but also older ones like William Byrd, Taverner, and Gabriel Fauré. There's a more contemporary choral composer from Estonia called Arvo Pert that I like to listen very much. At noon, I start listening to popular music.

17:13So it can be Brazilian. It can be from various parts of the world. I love Indian music. I love African music. And at night, I tend to listen to jazz because I think it combines with the evening. So a lot of Miles Davis, Brad Meldau, who's a fabulous American pianist who will be performing here in London next week. I've been a big fan of his work for a long time, and I met his wife, Florine Meldau, who's also a very good singer, and she sings Brazilian music. This is the pattern, but I'm very open to new music. In fact, I'm a big fan of Radiohead, a British rock group that I came into contact through my sons, who are themselves music enthusiasts.

17:59And for my great satisfaction, I even came into contact with one of the musicians in Radiohead and have a very friendly relationship with Ed O 'Brien, one of the lead guitarists. That's very cool. Ambassador, thank you so much. And I'll be listening to Meio do Céu in the evening with a glass of wine. Very well. Thank you so much. Muito obrigado. Muito obrigado.

18:57Thank you very much, Ambassador. That was António Patriota, or Donio de Aguiar. His album Meio do Céu is out now. And so is his book, A Humanist Foreign Policy for a Multipolar World, published by Fundação Alexandre de Gusmão. The show was edited by Flynn Simons, and I am Fernando Augusto Pacheco.