Meet João Paulo Siqueira Lopes, one of Brazil's top art advisors

0:12Hello and welcome to the Monaco Weekly. I'm Fernando Augusto Pacheco, and on today's show, Let's Talk Art. It's a pleasure to welcome my fellow Brazilian, João Paulo Siqueira Lopes, one of the top art advisors in the country and founder of Panorama. He stopped by Amidori House to join us in the studio.

0:36João Paulo Siqueira Lopes, welcome to Monaco Radio. A pleasure to have you here, second time at Amidori House, but now in studio. Thank you very much, Fernando. It's a pleasure to be here. And before we talk about your work, I mean, tell us, you're here in London because, of course, we are one of the biggest art weeks of the year, at least in the city. Are you enjoying it so far? Very much so. I love London. I have lived part-time of my life here. and I've been coming to this Art Week in the past 12 or maybe 15 years. So it always feels good to be back in London and enjoy all the cultural activities and exhibitions, seeing my friends, seeing my colleagues, seeing the auction houses.

1:28So yes, it's very exciting. You did live here for a bit. You worked at Lisson Gallery, right? That's fantastic. Was that one of your first kind of jobs in a way, in that sense? I would say it was the most important one. I have worked for Listen Gallery for three years and a half. I was sharing my time between Sao Paulo and London. We opened an office for Listen Gallery in Sao Paulo. But I was coming here to London like four times a week and staying a month, two weeks, three weeks. so in a way I can consider that I have lived here because I had my routine, I had my habits I like the city a lot it has been really, really enriching and fulfilling to work with the Logsdales I'm not sure, but I think Lesson Gallery will soon turn 60 years old so I have learned a lot And by the time that I worked there, which was from 2014 to mid-2017, Nicholas Locksdale, the founder of Listen, was very much present in the day-by-day of the gallery.

2:50And we were quite close, which for me was also something unexpected. He was always interested in being surrounded by the young people in the gallery. I think it was in order to make him feel, I mean, more in the avant-garde of things, surrounded by youth. And, no, it was a great experience. Then the Listen Gallery opened in New York in 2015 or 2016, I can't remember exactly, but I shared my time between London and New York when they opened. Well, let's move forward a little bit because this has been a very important year for you because you launched Panorama, which is focused on art advisory. But I wonder if you can tell us a bit more about Panorama.

3:40That's a very exciting new step as well in your career, right? Yes, yes, yes, absolutely. So I've been working as an art advisor since I left Listen Gallery, which was 2017. So I started my first company called ACT, Art Consulting Tool. I left ACT last year and launched Panorama on April this year. So it's, yes, it's a great moment of my life and my career because I feel Panorama is really my vision, my experience, my way of sharing art and thinking and feeling about art. So as much as also this is a personal endeavor, I have a team with me. We are a small team. We are six people now. I have Maria Antonia and Carolina.

4:44They work with me in dealing with clients, galleries, searching for artworks, and the other part of the team who's based in the office in Sao Paulo. And before we talk a bit more about your clients and everything, I mean, when you are an art advisor, when you have a company like Panorama, you must know your clients so much because art, for me at least, is something very personal as well. So how does it work, your relationship with the clients? You must meet then and have drinks and dinners, I presume, as well to get to know them. It must be like a very, like a bonding, right? Yes, yes, yes. Yes, yes.

5:28It's a very relational work, I would say. I try to combine the social and personal aspects of it with content, expertise, and experiences.

5:51It's quite impressive. how the number of art advisors has grown in the past years. I think people in the art circuit, they realized that being an advisor allows you to have a lot of freedom to manage your time, to get to travel. and as I've been doing this for now, soon 10 years, I think I have seen the modus operandi of art advisors changing a lot. And I see my clients very often. I speak to them very often. Of course, it's also a matter of choice of the client. You know, some people, they want to talk on a weekly basis. Some people, twice a week or each 15 days. But in general, we're quite close.

6:58And I'm very often seeing their houses, traveling with them. I know their children when they have children. You know, very often I'm installing works in the bedrooms. So in a way, you soon develop a sort of intimate relationship with the client.

7:26And what I like to think is also, you know, I'm not planning to have an impact on their taste. I think taste is a very personal thing. But I like to open horizons and then sort of bring filters. I think the world today is so full of everything. And, you know, there are so many artists, so many galleries, so many fairs, biennials. so the exercise is really to open it at first and then taking into consideration what we see what we feel what touches us aesthetically emotionally intellectually and then filter who are your clients are they Brazilian or their international crowd? I mean, because let's be honest, even Brazilians, we can be very international.

8:33Maybe a Brazilian living in London or in Lisbon or in New York. Yes.

8:41So I went to live in Paris to study in 2010. So by the time I was studying curatorial affairs at Institut des Etudes Supérieures des Arts, and I started working there for Nathalie Obadia, which is a great gallery based in Paris. And after that, I went to New York. I have worked for the Gagosian Gallery. I went back to Paris and worked for FIAC, the fair.

9:24Since most of my experiences were not in Brazil, I had developed a great network abroad. So I would say half of my clients are Brazilians based between Brazil and different countries. And the other half, they are people from all over the world, really. I'm a little less active in Asia in comparison to other territories. But I've been trying to develop a little more there. I think there are very interesting things happening and very interesting people. So I went to Japan this year. I went to Hong Kong last year and to Bangkok. Yes, yes, yes. Asia is in the radar a little bit. It's a good kind of spot to look out at.

10:20But let's talk about our country, Brazil, right? And especially Sao Paulo. I mean, the biennial is currently happening there in the city. I think it's been quite a success. Is it a good city to be if you work in the art market? How do you see that? Definitely, definitely. It has definitely changed a lot since SIP Archie the fair started. I remember that I went to the first edition and I have never missed one. You kind of launched Panorama at SIP Archie earlier this year, right? Exactly, exactly, exactly. There were two events to launch Panorama. I had a dinner for gallerists and clients. We were 48 people.

11:06City dinner was fun It was a little bit of a Slightly surrealist Dinner With some unexpected things Like a Spanish guitarist There were Texts printed On silk napkins Famous texts In the art history It was super fun Great food, great vibe And also in the week of the fair, I organized the little party that I could invite some of the artists that I've been supporting throughout the years, and some other friends, friends of the company, the new company in a way, people that are involved also publishing books too. You have a relationship with Fidem Press, right? Right, right, right, exactly. So I have collaborated with Fidem Press in four publications.

12:06And it was a great experience. They have done a book about Latin American art, which is like a large survey. And I have written texts about some of my favorite artists in Brazil, Elio Oiticica, whose state is also now currently represented by Listen Gallery. Ana Maria Maiolino, who won the Lion at the past Venice Biennale and Sildo Meirelles. Very good names. Yeah, very good names. And I've also chosen the artists that are part of the book. I've also collaborated with another book called Prime about up-and-coming artists and another one of the Vitamin series. The one that I was involved was about artists.

13:02that work with text and and this is also something that I'm very interested in just coming back to Sao Paulo very much so I think Sao Paulo together with Mexico City are the main the main art cities in Latin America they have similarities I feel but Sao Paulo somehow is maybe a little more in a leading position in regards to Sao Paulo Biennial. Sao Paulo Biennial started in 1951 and when you study the history of Sao Paulo Biennial you understand the relevance of of it. There were moments in which the Biennial was more or less strong or let's say more or less in in the eyes of the world but luckily and not only luckily but also due to hard work of the biennial curatorial team and also the biennial admin team the biennial is very much in the spotlight of the world these days and I feel this year's biennial curated by Bonaventure is really a special one.

14:32I look forward to see it actually when I go in December, hopefully. And what about Brazilian art? Of course, you know, it's well known. It's a very respected market. But at least as a Brazilian living in Europe, I saw more exhibitions in Paris, even here in London of Brazilian artists, something that I haven't seen that much before. Do you think it's changing? Do you think there's more appreciation towards Brazilian art? or maybe not, or maybe you don't see actually such an uptake? I think so, yes. This year was, again, an official year between Brazil and France. So it was a season. If I'm not mistaken, it started in February or March till summer.

15:19And not sure if you've seen this in Paris, but there's a project called Aberto. Aberto, yes. Yeah, that Felipe Assis and Kiki Mazzucchelli, who are good friends of mine, together with Claudia Moreira-Sales, are doing in Brazil. So it's a very interesting project. They rent historical houses and they do these shows like putting the chosen house in dialogue with art and design in a way fantastic idea, I'm a big fan of Alberto here exactly and it was the first time they've done Alberto outside of Brazil and because of the France-Brazil season in Paris they got this Corbusier House and did it there and it was a great success another artist that I really like Marina Heingant had a beautiful show in the museum in Nîmes Ana Maria Maiolino had a show in the Picasso Museum I think Brazilian art got a special role in institutions all over the world in the past three years I would say it has to do with Adriano Pedrosa being the first Brazilian curator in the Venice Biennale last year.

17:01And this good moment in which museums are in Sao Paulo, MASP opened a new building, and Pinacoteca also opened a new building. The exhibitions are very good in both museums. The administration is very good. The museums are in good financial health. And the galleries. The galleries are very good in Sao Paulo. I'm proud. I'm proud. I feel proud here. What's next, João? You're here in London, but of course there are more fairs to visit. Are you going toward Basel, Paris? I'm going toward Basel, Paris. What do you think? Because that's a fairly newish kind of fair, right? The move to Paris. Quite an interesting one.

17:43Exactly. I mean, in the first place, I have an emotional relationship to this fair because I've worked for this fair in the past. And the director of FIAC when I worked there, Jennifer Flay, was also a great mentor to me. So this is a fair I really enjoy. Having an art fair inside of the Grand Palais is an ultimate luxury. Chicory. Just chic, exactly. Yes, just chic. And now that it's under Art Basel umbrella, of course, the setup is really sophisticated. The services are really good. It's definitely a great experience. The selection of galleries is also very good. Paris is also a very vibrant city in the art system these days.

18:34I mean, it has always been because of its great institutions and art history. But there are more collectors. that are more collectors based in Paris right now. Good for you. I was going to ask as well, João, on a personal level, perhaps to end this interview here, what do you have at your apartment? What type of art do you actually consume on a personal level? Maybe you can give some inspiration to us. If you want to mention names or if you like sculptures or, you know, give me some insights on that one. I always have trouble answering to this question. It's too personal, maybe. No, no, no. You know, as this is what I do for a living and this is my mission in the world, when it comes to me, I'm a little less strategic, a little less organized, a little less rigorous.

19:31I do this so much for other people. And then when it comes to me, I'm a little all over the place I mean it's the same thing that I always tell my clients you need to buy art that touches your heart I mean it sounds a little cliche but you know the beauty and the poetry about buying art is that you're bringing ideas, thoughts, revolution, inspiration, dreams to you, to your house and the fact that this can become a little rational should never remove this, should never take this more emotional aspect out of it. I have quite a lot of art in my house. I'm now building a second house by the beach and I'm now choosing the art.

20:32And for this, I've been a little more organized. But in my house, I have photography from the 20s to Latin American painters from the 70s to very young painters who are now, I don't know, not even 30 years old. I was focusing all my attention on the launching of Panorama and organizing Panorama. but now I feel in the coming years I should really also focus a little more on my collection and organize it a little bit better. That's fantastic. Muito obrigado, João. A pleasure to talk to you. Muito obrigado, Fernando. Also a pleasure. Thank you, João. And you can follow Panorama on Instagram on panorama.artadvisory.

21:23I'm Fernando Gusto Pacheco. The show was edited by Elliot Greenfield. Thank you for listening. Thank you.