Restaurateur Jeremy King breathes new life into Simpson’s in the Strand

0:12Shayne Brady:Hello and welcome to the Monaco Weekly. I'm Fernando Gusto Pacheco and on today's show, Monaco's Hassan Anderson speaks to restaurateur Jeremy King and his longtime design collaborator Shayne Brady. King has launched some of London's most iconic dining spots, including the Walsley, the Delaney, and more recently, the Park and Arlington. King and Brady's latest venture, Simpsons in the Strand, first opened in 1828 and became famous for being a chess club, turned restaurant, that served roast meats and Yorkshire puddings from silver trolleys. After four years of renovations, it reopened yesterday, bringing several venues together under one roof.

0:54Shayne Brady:Hassan began by asking the pair how they take something as historic as Simpsons and turn it into something fresh and new.

1:08Jeremy King:It's actually the notion of fresh and new has been troubling us because I, for many years, was averse to publicity and social media. and whenever anybody gets hold of things they feel like a new restaurant they feel that they have to have a slogan almost and the people I work with kept saying it was a reawakening and I banned reawakening partly because actually White Liz was using that uh using that word but maybe rediscovering is better. And because this site has been very much close to my heart for over 25 years, and when we first looked at acquiring it, and come 2000, we were trying to buy it, it's 2008, 2015, finally in 2022.

2:12Jeremy King:So the beauty of it is that Shane and I have had almost too much time to think about it. But the delay was punitive financially and irritating and so on. I've had senior members of staff on board for 18 months. I think we've created a better restaurant for it. A really important moment for me was about 18 months ago. when I was a bit jaded and going through it. And I took a friend who's a hotelier with restaurants and so on. He said, I'd love to have a look. So we toured and he was quite quiet. And we got to the end. I thought, oh, he's going to tell me I'm mad. Because a lot of people had said both to Shane and I, what are you going to do with it?

3:04Jeremy King:How are you going to fill these rooms? What's going to work? And he looked around and I'm quoting, I never swear myself, but to my surprise, he said, Jeremy, this is fucking fantastic. There is nothing like this. There never will be. This is amazing. And I thought, thank you. Yes, it's reminded me. And I think Shane and I both had to remind ourselves that it is, if you'll excuse me saying again, fucking fantastic.

3:39Shayne Brady:Well, Shane, let's ask about your position on this. All architects work within constraints, but tell us what went through your head when you first saw the restaurant? What state was it in? I mean, it was quite stripped clean when we first went for our first walk. There was still some nice antiques of chandeliers, wall lights, fire grates around the place with tags because of the auction. And actually on Jeremy and I's first walk, we were quite excited for hopefully being able to retain those elements because I think that with everything we do with Jeremy, it's always about looking at the legacy of the building and then working off that legacy.

4:18Shayne Brady:I think to begin with, my thoughts, because I'd actually only been to Simpson's ground floor previously when it was opened, so I actually didn't realise what a TARDIS it was in terms of the two, well, the three venues upstairs and then the bar in the lower ground floor. So for me, during the first walk with Jeremy, my eyes were opened over how actually expansive the space was. Jeremy set a point that really struck me when we walked site, which was, this should feel like it has been loved by every owner that's had it over the course of the past 120 odd years. The building was built in 1904. And I thought that's actually the nugget of how we approach this design.

4:59Shayne Brady:Because, of course, we're not ripping it out. We're not creating something modern and new within the building, nor should we, because I think it's such, to Jeremy's phrase, the grand dame of restaurants in the city. So it was about making sure that all the wood panelling felt lovingly restored, but maybe not perfect because it is 120 years old and it has had some love over the years. But also redefining the spaces, because I think some of the bars had lost their way, in my opinion, over the course of the 120 years. So maybe putting back in spaces that feel true and authentic to what that building was.

5:33Shayne Brady:And did you know right away that's what you wanted to do with the space? Or did it take a bit of time to sort of absorb that brief and take in the physical surroundings? Well, I think the thing, because Jeremy and I have worked, we've known each other 15 years. And I think that if we talk about some of our other projects, sometimes the sites don't have a history. But Jeremy will have formed in his head a wonderful story or backstory, which is the jumping off point for us both to design it together. Because I think that's what's really important about all of our collaborations. It's not that I go away for eight weeks and come back to Jeremy with a great design.

6:07Shayne Brady:We talk most weeks in the design process. But Simpsons was wonderful because it already had a history and a legacy. So there wasn't any making up, I think. it was more looking into the archive to see what was the history of Simpsons from the chest to the great people that's walked its corridors to see what that may mean in an aesthetic way. Well Jeremy you're often a visible presence in your restaurants in a tailored suit and dapper tie what have you learned about how to design a space and what details do you sort of look for from a designer what are the recipes for success?

6:43Jeremy King:One of the most important things is actually practicality. So often restaurant designers don't understand that and what looked good on plan actually when it's put in doesn't work, there's not enough space. My oft-repeated phrase is that great design should never shout for attention but should withstand scrutiny and I think that is the essence of it and that's why Shane and I work so well together because he doesn't do that. There is an alchemy between designers. Even David Collins used to say, I'm a better designer with a rigorous client rather than give them free reign. So I think restraint is so, so important and you garner much more authority through restraint.

7:35Jeremy King:And Shane understands that. I don't always get it right. sometimes i just make a sentence jeremy saying too designed yes sometimes i'll i will say tth trying too hard and very rarely though very very rarely what i've always always said is that um i normally in the past i would give shane the brief and And I would give him maybe an artichoke, which has got lots of layers and so on. And he'd give me back a pineapple, that much bigger, that much sweeter, that much more developed and so on. And that's the strength of him. And that's where our alchemy would work.

8:28Shayne Brady:Well, I'd quite like to get your perspective on that question as well, Shane. Do you have principles when it comes to designing well? I think to go off Jeremy's point in terms of the practicality, the one thing that Jeremy taught me very early on in my career was sitting in every seat on the plan. And how would that feel? So in the restaurant, looking at a piece of paper because it's not built yet. How is that seat feeling? How is that seat feeling? What is that guest looking at if they're sat on that chair? Are they looking at a bad door to a kitchen? Are they seeing into the kitchen? How are we dealing with that transition space between front and back of house?

9:05Shayne Brady:I think the other thing that I'm always obsessed with with Jeremy is lighting, because I think that lighting makes or breaks a space. And I think all of Jeremy's restaurants have been famous for being able to take you from breakfast to dinner, to late night dinner. And I think that's completely down to the lighting. It doesn't it does matter what materials we pick together in terms of tabletop and leathers. but actually if we don't together get the lighting right, the space kind of fails. And Simpsons, I think, has proven challenging for that because we're dealing with a heritage-listed space.

9:42Shayne Brady:So we can't just rip out all of the ceilings and put in the lights every which way we want to put them in to make it right. So that's been a challenge on the project to make sure the lighting feels really beautiful and works as it needs to throughout the course of the day. So I think space planning and lighting are my first two go-tos. of hopefully getting it as right as we can.

10:02Jeremy King:And I would entirely echo what Shane says about lighting. For me, it's the single most important thing. The person I learned the most about lighting from, or the starting point, was the great Peter Langan, who was a wonderful natural restaurateur. He was a lascivious drunk, so he's not a role model, but he taught me, and the one thing he said, he said great lighting is about shadow.

10:31Shayne Brady:Well, our audience includes architects and designers as well as diners. We've kind of touched upon this in terms of the experience of a restaurant, but what are some of your favourite spaces to entertain or eat in and what do they have in common?

10:45Jeremy King:So you'd like me to enumerate what those places might be. It's quite difficult. I've always loved River Cafe and there are other places both in London and around the world the unifying aspect is the spirit I often get asked what are the most important ingredients in terms of how a restaurant appeals to a diner and I always say heart and soul which is a frustrating answer because how do you define heart and soul and that's the whole point is to bring it somewhere like the River Cafe. Actually, if you analyse it, it's not setting itself up to be particularly comfortable or convivial, but it works incredibly well.

11:38Jeremy King:And that, for me, is one of the excitements. Just as with literature or music there is no formula, and with restaurants there's no formula as such, if we prepare to learn all the time, not copy, but learn from other experiences. And if you look at the River Cafe, come the evening, that incredibly important element is that there was a naked flame on the table. And if you ask me what is the most important lighting accoutrement, I'd say candles, which is interesting because, of course, it was a medium which were much more about 300 years ago but it does make it does make all the difference and but it's heart and soul it's and you said earlier on that I I'm often seen in the restaurants and that's because the easiest way to run a restaurant successfully is the hard way and that's being there and from your perspective Shane well in terms of I was just thinking while

12:45Shayne Brady:Jeremy was answering they're restaurants I like and it's actually the two restaurants I like at the moment in London other than Jeremy's are restaurants run by people that you do see on the floor. I think Wildflowers with Laura and her husband is incredible because it almost feels like being invited into her home. She designed it and so it's not necessarily my aesthetic but I love it because it's really curated that you feel she's welcoming you into her world. And then I think also Dover Street, Dover Street counter and Martina's with Martin again you feel very much it's his heart and soul in those venues so you feel a connection to them straight away not to steal one of Jeremy's sentences which he may discuss at some point but he says that quite often in terms of restaurants being run from the floor as opposed to the boardroom and those two groups or those two people feel very much run from the floor so you feel a connection to them which I think is wonderful.

13:39Shayne Brady:You've got a book out and you're reflecting on decades in the industry, Jeremy, but tell us about hospitality today. We touched upon it a bit there. From your perspective, how are people's tastes changing and what stays the same?

13:53Jeremy King:In terms of people's taste, I think they're much more sophisticated. I think with a more sophisticated customer, I felt that post-COVID, I was excited because I thought restaurants would be more appreciated by customers and by the same token customers would be more appreciated by restaurateurs and and that we should understand but unfortunately we have gone backwards somewhat and people will still say how am i expected to pay six pounds for cauliflower cheese when i can buy a cauliflower for 60p um and that lack of understanding which the the french and italians and Spanish embrace so much more.

14:38Jeremy King:But I do feel positive. And when they talk about Brexit, you say about not being able to replace those people. I worked last night with six staff on the floor at Arlington, and I had three, by coincidence, out of the brigades we have, I had three public school boys, ex-public school boys, working with three inner-city women and a very diverse group it was indeed. And it was brilliant. And it gave me more optimism about the future and that we were actually starting to appreciate restaurants more. And there's no ignorance in working in a restaurant. And we've broken that class structure because there was a massive class structure when I first came into it.

15:30Jeremy King:Shane, do you have a perspective on changing tastes from a designer's view in restaurants?

15:36Shayne Brady:I mean, I think I'm more hopeful than necessarily thinking this is happening. I struggle, and maybe it's from my 15 years with Jeremy, I struggle with those restaurants that are designed to really scream for attention. And without naming names, I think we can all think of some in our head that are very much that. And this whole designed for photography in terms of design for people and Instagram and a pet peeve that Jeremy and I discuss a lot, And I think that people, though, and I think the younger generation, I hope, are starting to buy into more restaurants that have legacy or authenticity.

16:10Shayne Brady:So I think something like Simpsons is quite exciting because I feel that it's going to bring a younger generation and demographic to a building and to a restaurant that may have never seen it before or known of it. But it's not screaming for attention. It has a heritage and, to repeat myself, authenticity, which I think is really important. brilliant well gentlemen i know you've given me a nice amount of time today and we've we've we've covered a lot of ground but i do have uh one more question for both of you um we're told people drink less and go to bed earlier how optimistic are you about london as a place to

16:43Jeremy King:go out and eat well and have fun i think we fashion dictates that people follow and i'd like to feel that we can turn that around. And I think it's time for us to rediscover the city. The whole point of living in the city is to embrace it. And that includes, of course, food and wine and interacting with each other.

17:12Shayne Brady:And I think to that point, there is, we're reading about it loads this year in terms of this shift away from screen and phone and moving back towards connection with people or interacting with people. So I think, and I'm not sure whether we're seeing it in restaurants yet or not, but the idea of a phone on a table sends me into a wild panic. But I think people are moving away from wanting to just be stuck behind a screen and actually be out interacting social environments and that is restaurants, bars. It's also other venues, but it is very much that and having connection with people. So I feel as a whole, we're moving back towards engaging with each other in public social spaces.

17:51Jeremy King:I think you're absolutely right. And the other big shift, which is reasonably well documented now, is that in my 20s and 30s, it was all about getting a flat, buying a home, buying things, acquiring things. And nowadays, people are much more experiential and they want to enjoy their time and they don't want to invest in commodity.

18:21Shayne Brady:Thank you, Hassan, Jeremy and Shane. For more information, go to simpsonsinthestrand.co.uk. I'm Ferdinand Augusto Pacheco and this show was edited by Lily Austin with production assistance from Annelies Maynard.