AFCON Final & the growing influence of the diaspora - The Sports Agents

0:02This is a Global Player Original Podcast. Host Morocco faced Senegal in the Africa Cup of Nations final on Sunday. Sadio Mane denied ex-Liverpool team-mate Mo Salah on his fifth attempt at the AFCON title. Was that Salah's last chance? Can Mane and Senegal stop the powerhouse of Morocco from winning their first AFCON in 50 years? At this AFCON, almost 40 % of players were born outside Africa, like the face of the tournament, Hakimi. So where should teams be putting their money? Improving recruitment from the diaspora or investing more at home? And what needs to change to attract these players?

0:38Welcome to The Sports Agents.

0:47The Sports Agents. With Gabby Logan and Mark Chapman. So joining us for this one, Stephen Colker, former Premier League defender and Sierra Leone captain. and the Athletics' Jay Harris. Jay, let me start with you. Is this, in many ways, a perfect final here with the powerhouse of Morocco and the romanticism of Manet and Senegal? Definitely. Firstly, it's always good when the hosts go really far in a competition. I was at the last AFCON in the Ivory Coast and the scenes in Abidjan throughout the entire tournament were amazing. and I think what some people maybe don't know or casual observers don't know is that both of these countries the football federations have significantly invested in those teams over the last five to ten years Morocco we've seen them do extremely well at youth team level it's the same with Senegal Senegal have qualified for three world cups in a row they won AFCON in 2021 so I think there's a reason why both these teams have got there and and yes they're packed with incredible talent from Mane to Hakimi etc but actually the there's been a long-term plan for both of these countries to reach this stage consistently.

1:59That's really interesting actually because one of the things we wanted to talk about was the diaspora and 40 % of players in this tournament have been recruited from a kind of around the world from the diaspora and and whether or not the philosophy for countries who haven't fared as well either not even getting there in the first place or or getting there and and perhaps going out earlier than they'd hoped to. Do they have to look at their philosophy and work out whether it's worth kind of spending more money internally and developing the sport internally, or do they need to spend more money going out and recruiting around the world?

2:33Do you sense, Stephen, that that is something that has been a dilemma for a lot of countries in the last few years? Well, speaking on behalf of Sierra Leone, that's exactly what we've tried to do. We've gone out to try and recruit as many people from around the world, around Europe, who maybe have had slightly more advanced technical coaching as a young player, players who, of course, have Sierra Leone heritage but might not have grown up in the country. So they've been used to different styles of pitches, different styles of coaching, different styles of tactics, all of that, and bring that into a squad that has home-based players, has home-grown players that have, of course, been brought up from the streets of Freetown.

3:16And I think that's quite a nice blend. But this takes time. This does take time. Equatorial Guinea is another country that I know have gone to Portugal. Guinea-Bissau have dived deep into Portugal as well. So a lot of nations are trying to follow suit. But it's a process. These things do take time. Can you delve a little bit more into that? Because I've seen it very much on the rugby league side of things, where there was a huge, obviously Australia in the main, but New Zealand as well, powerhouses of rugby league. And yet a lot of players over the last five, ten years have decided they wanted to go back to play for the islands of their heritage.

3:54and it has made for a better game and and better stories and actually quite a lot of emotions there a lot of players hear Stephen going no I want to represent the country of my father or the country of my grandmother and and recognize my heritage it's it can often be portrayed as a mercenary decision well you're not going to play for country x you might as well go and play for country why whereas in my experience of talking to people it's the complete opposite yeah it's a really good point that you make and i'll start with this i'll start with the negative side because i want i want to end on a positive right so the difficulty in coming from england where i represent countries such as sierra leone and and other countries that are still developing it's really really challenging the infrastructure is is not there the the traveling you know we'll We'll spend days and upon days traveling.

4:54We'll spend nights sleeping on airport floors. The politics that take place, it's a struggle, right? So most players, if not all players with African heritage, are aware of this through their parents or through their grandparents. They're aware of the struggles that you can face going to represent your home nation. However, on the flip side of that, when you make that decision to go and play there, the passion, the love, the feeling, the warmth that you're welcomed with is something that, I mean, I didn't feel playing for England, if I'm being honest with you, but playing for Sierra Leone, I felt that.

5:32I felt that love. They treated me almost like a king and it was special. So once players get past that first hurdle of, right, it's going to be difficult. We're not going to fly on private jets and, you know, everything's going to be catered for us. Once players get past that hurdle, then the joy kicks in. And I think that's why we're seeing more and more players do it. But, you know, this is, you know, this is my message, certainly to Sierra Leone, as I speak to the Federation all the time, is please progress that side of things, the travel, the accommodation, the food, the pitches, because if you do so, you will get so many more players wanting to come, which will, in the long term, strengthen the nation.

6:12And I guess, Jay, as well, you know, So when you there talk about the emotion, you can see it, can't you? When you see African nations at World Cups, they just always look like they're having a much better time than anybody else. And when you saw Morocco progress in the last World Cup, there was so much joy in the stands and around the team for what they were doing. And actually, that's now become almost an expectation for them. They've set their bar so high. And you look at countries that take their players from those Parisian suburbs. So many of the players we see, the top players actually come from a small area around Paris.

6:46It's brilliant for them to kind of get that talent that's been nurtured in France and then go off to those major tournaments. But in the long term, is it a responsibility the players should feel, as Stephen says there, that within those countries there should be better pathways and better development for players to realise what it is like to play for their national team coming through the structures internally? And how do you do that when the finances, as you've just described there, Stephen, aren't so great? I've spoken to a lot of people about this recently, mainly from a Nigerian perspective, because if you look at that Nigeria squad, there are a lot of players who are born and raised in London.

7:23That's like Alex Awobi, Calvin Bassi, Semi Ajayi, Adam Ola-Lukman, who was the African Footballer of the Year in 2024. and my conversations with people firstly touched upon what Stephen said spoke to people close to those players who said Nigeria always have some sort of financial issue just before the World Cup player final in November they boycotted training over unpaid bonuses it's an issue which came up again last week so of course some players are going to be put off by that and then it comes down to the quality of the league if you look at South Africa's squad at this tournament and previous tournaments the vast majority of their players play in South Africa's top flight now Because the quality of their league is good, they don't need to look around at players born in different countries.

8:05That's why sort of Nigeria and perhaps Sierra Leone rely on it a little bit more. What you want to reach is a point where all of those infrastructures are the same. Sierra Leone's infrastructure and set up the pitches, etc. are as good as England's. But that's going to take a really, really long period of time to get to. And then the players just think, this is the country where I feel closest to my heritage. So I'm going to represent them. But unfortunately, they just have to weigh up the impact it's going to have on their careers. Because if, for example, and I'm sure Stephen can touch on it, if the recovery for the players is not good enough, if the way the rehabilitation is managed with injuries, etc., that's going to be a really off-putting factor to a player.

8:46Because one injury at a tournament or an international qualifier can have serious consequences for the rest of their career. So it's something which we're slowly seeing changing, but the pace of change is probably not quite quick enough. That point you just touched on there, around the travelling and around the recovery time and that being an issue for the player. Even if the player chooses to sacrifice himself, it's a bigger issue for the club. So you've got a lot of clubs going, I don't want my player to go and represent X if it's going to take them four or five days to get back because they're travelling via Timbuktu.

9:20A lot of coaches have actually said to me face-to-face, I don't want you to go. I need you here ready for training, let's say on the Wednesday or Thursday, where you typically return when playing in Europe. But when you're returning from Africa, you can return on the Friday and I need you for the Saturday game. So it's not just the player, the clubs also have a point. And I can respect that. And there were so many games happening so quickly, especially in the Premier League. But the infrastructure needs to be improved in order for players to feel that confidence from their club to go and represent the nation.

9:53do you think there is more understanding Stephen for players say if they are going to go to Sierra Leone type where where the understanding is look that there is not a lot there that they can fund to to help you with travel or hotels or whatever it may be and rightly or wrongly I I don't know but there is a perception that Nigeria really ought to have the money given maybe the successes as they have had in the past or that they're one of the continent's superpowers. Therefore, for some players, there might be a greater doubt about saying, yeah, we will commit to Nigeria because you're probably thinking, well, you have got the money, but you're not helping us with it.

10:36Is that a problem? Yeah, I believe it is. I believe that with Sierra Leone, I go and represent Sierra Leone and I understand that, as I say, it's a developing country, there isn't a lot of money there. And actually, the money that I do receive, I try to invest back into the country. However, if I was the guy I represent in Egypt and Nigeria, there would be a bigger expectation, absolutely, that I'd be taken care of. And look, I don't want to be sounding like I'm here complaining. It's just the basics, right? So as long as you have a flight, a direct flight, that leaves on the day it should and you return on the day as planned, I think most players can stomach it.

11:16But when you're travelling, as I said, you know three four five stops and then you're in hotels with with with no air conditioning or the food isn't to a decent standard that's when it can be challenging but having said that representing Sierra Leone was one of the best decisions I ever made because the experiences that I had there the the people that I met and as I said the feeling that I had especially wearing the armband was was phenomenal so it does take some of us as players to take a risk step outside a comfort zone and go and take that. Just on the decisions that young players have to make in terms of representation then, Stephen, you know, when obviously the pull for England is so deep, you know, they've got so much choice.

12:01When you're in that kind of moment with your family making that decision, do I continue on this path of representing England or do I go to the country that is more emotionally linked to my family and my heritage? Do England come in to play here or Or is there a certain arrogance with those larger nations that they don't need to come and dangle carrots in front of you and they expect that you'll want to go in that direction because of the financial kind of certainties almost with them? Yeah, I think what England are very good at is giving players a cap very early on. So we've seen it a lot, not just myself.

12:39I only had the one cap, but they've done it with quite a few players. So if there's conversations between England, Scotland, Ireland, Wales, you know, there's often we have some kind of mix in us. England or Wales or Scotland will try to grab that player as young as possible, give them a cap. And it's like now they're ours. And I think that that worked for a certain period of time. But now players are getting to the stage where actually unless you've picked up the phone and had a conversation with me and explained to me why you want me, maybe I will go and represent another nation. And I think England have their work cut out a little bit more.

13:17But of course, the pull that all these big nations have is they can offer them a World Cup because England are there pretty much every time. Well, for as long as I can remember, England have been there. And they compete at World Cups. So for any player, of course, that's a dream. Also, you know, of course, you've got the financial side of it. You've got the sponsorship side of it because the sponsors are very, let's say, reluctant to give as much away when you're representing a team in Africa. And all these things come into play and making the decision. But ultimately, I think players have to decide with their family, where does the heart lie?

13:54You know, not everything's about money. Where does the heart lie? And who do you want to represent the most? As far as the final itself is concerned, Jay, Morocco should win this, shouldn't they, as hosts? and also Morocco should be the dominant African country for the foreseeable future, shouldn't they? Given their infrastructure and wealth and starting position really when it comes to rankings going forward. Yeah, like I said, they've got an excellent record at youth team level at the moment. They've got scouts in different countries, iron up young players. You just need to look at their squad.

14:32There's a very, very good blend of experience and youth. you've got Hakimi, you've got Saibari, you've got Ezel Zalzoudi, these guys will play top five European leagues. Do I think they'll win the final? Yes. When I was at that game last night, I noticed something which really interesting, but in the 80th minute, it was nil-nil, but the Moroccan fans were jumping up and down as if they were winning 3-0. At no point did I really sense any sort of tension from the fan base, like this entire tournament, they've just been utterly convinced that they're going to win there's an expectation that they're going to win I think they're unbeaten at home in something like 39 games Waleed Regragui I know there's a lot of focus on the attacking talents within this Morocco squad but actually they got to the semi-final of the last World Cup on a defensive foundation they've conceded one goal at this tournament which was a penalty Nigeria had scored 14 goals in five games they had two shots and 11 touches in the box every single part of Morocco's starting 11 in the squad is is excellent you know they're bringing Hamza Igamane off the bench.

15:34They just have talent everywhere. And unfortunately for Senegal, their captain Khalidou Koulibai is suspended. And so is Habib Diara. So I feel bad for Senegal, but I just look at this and think something incredible has to happen for Morocco to lose. And it will be their first AFCON title in 50 years. So even though there is this huge expectation, it will be historic and it'll be, I guess, also a validation of what they've been investing. And hopefully an example to the other nations that it is worth doing that because they've reaped their rewards. And just a very, before we let you go, just a very quick one on the Mane-Sala kind of battle, third time that Mane's kind of prevented Salah progressing in AFCON.

16:13And he went there, obviously, with a lot of noise, Mo Salah, from Liverpool. I'm not sure what his overall experience has been like there in terms of attention on him. He'll be coming back soon, though, obviously. And that story will kind of rumble on, I guess, in his role here within that Liverpool side. Has that been a question that's been asked of him a lot there? Not really. I think it'd be intriguing to see how he's used when he goes back to Liverpool because of the Isak injury and the latter stages of this tournament. He was more playing in a sort of a traditional front two with Omar Mahmouche.

16:45I think the good thing for Salah is that he's played well at this tournament. But the question of his legacy with Egypt and Afcon is still quite complicated because Egypt had won this tournament three times in a row just before Salah emerged. Then there was a lot of political turmoil in the country. So I think they missed a couple of AFCONs. There's no doubt he's an exceptional footballer and his goals have helped Egypt sort of return to the World Cup. But the fact that Egypt are the record holders of this competition, they've won seven times, but their greatest player of all time has never won it.

17:17It's still a little bit strange. And I do think that question will sort of linger over Salah a little bit. You know, you left Liverpool under a bit of a cloud. This was sort of maybe not his last opportunity to win AFCON, but another big opportunity to do it and he's not quite done it. So he definitely still has something to prove. Okay, 35 at the next one. There's echoes here of Messi and Argentina, isn't there? But let's wait and see, shall we? Thank you so much, guys. Enjoy the final. Thank you for today. The Sports Agents.

17:49The Sports Agents. With Gabby Logan and Mark Chapman. So it's been another busy week on the Sports Agents. Yeah, we had a wonderful chat with Rob Smithhurst, who is the owner of Macclesfields. They were, of course, the giant killers, the six-tier side who sent out the holders Crystal Palace last weekend. Who would have thought it? You know, I bought the club five years ago, you know, obviously after a boozy event. Yeah, can we go into that? Yeah, of course. It was a bit crazy, really. You know, I sort of sold my business, did really well, and then unfortunately went into a sort of oblivion of addiction really.

18:26I didn't really feel like I had a purpose and obviously when I saw the football club on Rightmove I kind of did it as a bit of a joke really. It was let's have a go and let's buy it and I bought it within about 24 hours and I remember going down to the football club I've not even seen it at this stage. I just did it for a bit of a laugh because I wasn't in a good place and I remember getting a massive bunch of keys and trying to get in the place for about three hours because you can imagine there's about 300 keys and I'm just trying to open, fine, no, that key doesn't work, right? This one, trying to go through them all.

18:59And when I got in there, I thought, oh my God, what have I bought? The grass was grown, the boards had fallen down. It had completely and utterly gone to ruin. Obviously, the receivers had gone in. They'd literally ripped the place apart. And yeah, at that point, I hadn't told the wife or anything about what I'd done. and it was only really when Sky turned up and BBC turned up and they're asking, can we speak to the new owner, Rob Smathers? And I'm thinking, that's me. I would say I'm on right move almost more than any other website. I've never seen a football club for sale. I'm devastated. Commercial section, that's what you missed out on.

19:41Right, okay. I dread to think what Gabby may buy in the next couple of weeks. Chappers, do you want to go 50-50?

19:53and we also talked golf with brooks kepka moving back from live to the pga tour the host of the chipping forecast podcast andrew cotter joined us bryson de chambeau is the interesting one because if the pga tour were to get him to come back that's a much bigger deal than brooks kepka kepka fine player but i think his best days are behind him and he's not quite the name that he was Bryson DeChambeau very much still is because he's also tapping into a new market. The move towards YouTube is significant and it's significant in golf. The number of golfing YouTubers honestly, it's just and Bryson, although a late adopter, has leapt pretty much to the top of things because of who he is and because of the, as you mentioned the guests who he can command.

20:38I mean, playing with the Presidente, actually that makes it sound like he's a South American president, which probably isn't yet um so behaving not dissimilarly anyway

20:51that's it for another week on the sports agents if you've been listening to this on the news agents feed just search for the sports agents to listen to those episodes in full on youtube global player or wherever you get your podcasts and remember to hit subscribe or follow you could get in touch email the sports agents at global.com you can find us on social media or via the link in the show and we have new episodes every tuesday thursday and friday thanks for listening bye The Sports Agents with Gabby Logan and Mark Chapman.