Did Trump's immigration police murder a woman in cold blood?

20:15Lewis Goodall:But it has been used by MAGA and by the president himself to portray the entire community as somehow thieves, as on the make and so on.

20:24Jacob Frey:But this is why what has happened is so damaging in the sense that a woman has lost her life and everyone has decided. Liberal America has decided that it was complete overreach by ICE. There was absolutely zero justification whatsoever. and I've got to say that having looked at the video a number of times it kind of gets hard to see how this officer in particular felt his life was in danger and that it was an act of self-defense I would also add to that that from my time in America there were endless instances of people being shot in their cars by police or federal officials and the plea of well it was self-defense I didn't know whether he might pull a gun I didn't know whether they were going to run me over I didn't know and it is such a flimsy argument that is used so often that gets a cop off you know this isn't the first time someone has been shot is sitting in their car in America it happens all too frequently but everyone has already made up their mind Liberal America is saying it was cold-blooded murder MAGA America is saying she was a domestic terrorist There is nothing that I have seen so far that suggests she is a domestic terrorist, unless you say a domestic terrorist is anyone who exercises their First Amendment right to protest, in which case America is in a very dark place.

21:53Lewis Goodall:And this is the difference between Trump and previous administrations, right? Previous administrations, whether a Republican or Democrat, generally would view something like this happening with concern precisely because it might lead to violence or might lead to unrest. Trump sees it as a political opportunity to cause unrest, potentially, or at least if it does, it will serve his purposes to be seen to be cracking down on it. And I think this is what, you know, for us in the UK, I think what it is is solitary because it reminds us that basically when policing becomes nationalised and politicised and insulated from any local concern or accountability, accountability doesn't just evaporate, it completely explodes, right?

22:29Lewis Goodall:It just completely explodes. And truth becomes a complete byproduct, which basically means justice can't take place because without truth, then you can't have justice, right? And I think this isn't just a shooting. I mean, it's an appalling, obviously, tragedy that someone has lost their life. But it's not just about shooting. It's about two things. It's basically a jurisdictional power struggle. You know, you've basically got the federal government pitched against state government, both accusing the other instantly of being liars and being propagandists and having political purposes over and above actual making sure that justice is done, which just shows how sort of broken America is as a state right now.

23:04Lewis Goodall:And frankly, as well, it adverts something else that's bigger going on in America right now, which is, let's be honest, whatever ICE is doing, it clearly isn't just about enforcing immigration. It's basically about enforcing politics, right? And a political signal. You know, it's basically what ICE is doing, what Trump is doing with ICE is basically using immigration enforcement as theatre, as political theatre, day after day, week after week to solve the base. That's not to say that everything they do will be bad. And of course, they will deport some people who shouldn't be there. And that is right.

23:34Lewis Goodall:That's proper. That's got to happen. And it's a matter of legitimate public concern. But the way that they're doing it, we all know what it's about. It's about political theatre for MAGA and for Trump.

23:43Jacob Frey:Yeah, of course it is. And look, you know, kudos to Trump. I mean, genuinely, the number of illegal crossings taking place across the southern border has dwindled to more or less nothing since Trump became president. and he has stopped the massive flow that was taking place under the Biden administration. That's what he promised the American people. That is what he has delivered. He also did promise to crack down on the gangs and the people who were there illegally and who were running drug cartels or who were committing criminal acts. Again, that got widespread support. But ICE is being used now in a much more generalised way to target any immigrants in America, whether they be Somali background or whether they be from Hispanic backgrounds.

24:28Jacob Frey:And that is being used as a source of intimidation. And, you know, you've got the midterm elections and some people have said, oh, John Trump will suspend the midterm elections. No, I don't think he will do anything like that. Won't need to, because what's going to happen is that in certain key areas. And you talked about Minneapolis being quite close. You know, if Somali said, God, I don't want to bloody go and vote and have to find ICE officials outside the polling station.

24:51Lewis Goodall:All he finds is, exactly, he finds an excuse to deploy armed guards or troops or ICE or whatever it is outside polling stations. That seems to me such a credible outcome. And then you win that way. Weirdly, he'll do that in the cities. He won't do that in the rural areas. Funnily enough, no, no, no, no problem there.

25:08Jacob Frey:Safe Republican areas. Yeah, no, no. You won't see many guards there. And this is clearly the playbook that is going out. And the more polarisation there is, the better. And what a sad state of affairs that is.

25:21Lewis Goodall:Right, when we come back, we're going to be talking about more protests, but in a very different part of the world. This time, as we were saying earlier in the week, Iran.

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26:01Lewis Goodall:The News Agents. So some of you might remember earlier in the week, we said that something to keep an eye on was the protests that are taking place in Iran. They've been going since late December. Those protests, those anti-government protests against the regime there appear to be intensifying and spreading across much of Iran now. They began in late December, largely with merchants in Tehran, before spreading across the country. It's largely been focused on economic issues, particularly the value of the Iranian currency has collapsed. Western sanctions biting, inflation going up. Clearly at this point now it is concerning itself with other issues including the question of political repression.

26:40Lewis Goodall:This is easily, it is said by experts and analysts, the most significant protest the regime has seen for some years.

26:48Jacob Frey:Yes, it's across all 31 districts of Iran that there There are now protests on the streets. And it's been interesting that the reaction of the authorities has been kind of it hasn't been as heavy handed as maybe we've seen in previous occasions. And whether that is because they're scared that the support is so widespread and so extensive that it's not going to be that easy to suppress. It's not over someone wearing a hijab. This is about economic collapse. This is about inflation at 40 percent. This is about the collapse, as you were saying, Lewis, of the value of the currency and the corruption within the country and the fury of ordinary people.

27:29Jacob Frey:Or whether it's because of Donald Trump saying, if you do this, if you carry on killing protesters, we're going to come and bomb you. But so far, the protests have not been crushed. They are spreading. They're getting wider. And now people, instead of talking about hashtag Iran protest 2026, they're talking about Iran revolution 2026. And if that comes about, if there is an overthrow of the Islamic regime in Tehran, that will be an epic restructuring of geopolitics for the Middle East and to some extent the world. Oh, astonishing.

28:09Lewis Goodall:I mean, a regime which has been in place since the fall of the Shara in 1979. And there's basically been an enemy, more or less, the United States' number one enemy in lots of ways in the region ever since. I mean, the economic situation is astonishing. I mean, 40 % inflation is quite something. The Iranian riyal has been in freefall. It's now exchanging at 1.4 million riyal to one dollar, which gives, you know, in some ways it could be said to be like quite an old fashioned kind of bit of dissent, right? Right. Which is bread prices go up. People take to the streets. But obviously it comes at a really interesting moment geopolitically for Iran as well.

28:40Lewis Goodall:Right. Which is that if only a few years ago we were talking about Iran being an absolute kind of dominant regional player. And yet really, as a result of various things, not least to be fair, US led action, partly under the Trump administration. You know, it's so-called axis of resistance to the US, which was taking, you know, all of its various Shia related allies, whether it is in Syria or whether it was in Hezbollah or whatever. a lot of them have been crushed right a lot of them have been crushed and they find themselves now really isolated without much of a patron you know russia buys their drones but hasn't given them any money chinese have also bought things for them but haven't supported them that much so they find

29:14Jacob Frey:themselves very much isolated and of course with the relationship between venezuela and iran has been historically very close maduro has had very close relationships with the iranian regime and the whole kind of relationship over oil. This is, again, another weakening of the Ayatollah's position in the country with the consequences that could flow from that. Well, we're joined now by Omid Jalili, the British Iranian comedian, actor, writer, actually currently playing a part in a four-part ITV series, the role of an Islamic regime leader, which is not what we're going to talk to you about right now, but it seems kind of somehow appropriate because, of course, you are monitoring very closely what is happening in Iran.

30:04Jacob Frey:And I just, first of all, what is the latest you're hearing about the wave of protests, not just in Tehran, but across the country?

30:12Tim Walz:I mean, it's, what's unfolding is absolutely incredible. I was up till 2.30 in the morning last night. The video after video after video, they're showing things that normally if these things happen, the street you get you would get shot in the face for immediately for example bringing down the main flag in the in iran's second city mashah this was with the islamic regime flag was pulled down the statue of gassim soleimani who was an irgc leader was burned and and brought down images of the supreme leader taken down and and celebrated and what was amazing is that there's no looting I think some warehouse with Islamic regime rice was raided and they're not looting and they're not these are people who are hungry you bear in mind people don't have any water electricity's cut off the internet's cut off right now but they're throwing the rice up in the air in celebration so we see now as of this very second there are strikes happening all over the country internet is being shut and there's a plan for a massive for everyone to come out in the streets It's around eight o 'clock Iran time, which is like 4.30 UK time.

31:21Tim Walz:And the voice of Reza Pahlavi is being broadcast into the streets of Iran, asking security forces to go on a live transmission on television and scan a QR code, a QR code to join the revolution. So the revolution will be televised, but with QR codes. so just explain who this person is that is being broadcast just so you know um reza pahalavi is the son of the former shah of iran who left uh in 1978 and then which led to the islamic revolution of 1979 he's been living in california but he but they're calling for his name now it's interesting he's about 63 64 years old he's a californian guy but tremendously educated speaks perfect persian uh french and english and he's put himself up as a as a kind of temporary leader to bring the country together to transition towards a secular democracy now that's what he's saying the people in iran majority of what we're hearing is calling for monarchy that's a very very controversial thing but um he has said he's going to go so he's the person who's kind of leading from the back leading from america putting out these posts and a majority of iranians seem to be uh backing him and but he's not it's not that we're even backing him we're backing him as a figurehead as a leader of a movement specifically to bring down the islamic regime omid you said something

32:48Jacob Frey:very interesting in your first answer where you said there were protesters on the streets doing things that would normally get you shot in the face if the republican guards and the police and all the rest of these people are not doing that why do you think it is well they are some

33:06Tim Walz:Some of them are doing it, but you have to understand that the economy has collapsed there. So you see videos of people, ordinary people going up and reasoning with the security force saying, look, your money is as worthless as our money. Who are you protecting? You know, Tom Tugendhat was, you know, the former British Minister for Security has been, he has the intel. A lot of gold is being taken out and people are saying, who are you? Do you think they're going to take you with them? They're all getting ready to leave. there's only room for 20 people on a private jet do you think they're going to take you with them so what's happening is that there was a call by the supreme leader to bring the protests protesters to their knees so we are seeing videos of security forces shooting at i mean these are crimes against humanity happening right now but a lot of the security forces are running away there are video i've never seen this before where literally security forces are running and throwing stones back and you've got like 20 of them run this way, then you've got like 150, 200 people chasing them.

34:06Tim Walz:So there's been a tremendous shift. I'm not saying it's happened, but definitely hashtag Iran protest 2026 has now changed to Iran revolution 2026.

34:17Jacob Frey:Which is fascinating in itself. Do you think that Donald Trump's threat to kind of when he says the American military are locked and loaded and ready to intervene in Iran if the regime carries on killing protesters is having an effect? Or do you think that is a sideshow incidental? Don't get distracted by it.

34:37Tim Walz:The Islamic regime are totally in cahoots with that Venezuelan cartel. There've been the whole thing about that tanker was was stopped with Russian tank. It was actually basically Venezuelan crew, it all goes over to Iran, Iran changes it and brings it back. and that's the way they're trying to get around the sanctions. And by cutting off the regime from Venezuela, that's a huge thing Donald Trump seemed to be doing because it's like Venezuela first. And you know what? I think they're probably watching what's going on in Iran because everyone is thinking that this is a Israeli-led, American-led revolution.

35:11Tim Walz:No, this is totally organic. And the Iranian people themselves have said, we will deal with this. We will put in whatever government we want. Leave us be. we are dealing with this. So whatever Donald Trump has said he's going to do, we're watching the situation because I think the people will probably deal with it themselves and he probably won't have to. We'll probably come in to support if there's any more killings. But I think he's already intervening as we speak right now.

35:38Jacob Frey:So tell me this. Look, we had you on the news agents when the protests were going on in the wake of what happened to Masa Amini when, you know, she was the young woman, Kurdish woman who didn't want to wear a hijab and the police, you know, beat her up brutally and that sparked a wave of protests and you said then that the regime could be vulnerable isn't there an kind of almost cyclical thing that happens once every three or four years there are protests in iran the protests get brutally put down people grudgingly get on with their lives and they flare up again three or four years later is this any different

36:15Tim Walz:i can understand totally why people would think well and i've got all kinds of friends saying is there any difference there's just going to be a crackdown a bunch of people are going to get killed and then there'll be executions will follow with another another uprising has been quashed it feels different for a number of reasons for the first time they seem to have a figurehead which is this Reza Pahlavi who seems to symbolize a movement whether people want the monarchy back or not he symbolizes one thing and that's national unity they do seem to be organized whereas before people get shot the people are firing back there are many of these security forces are being killed I'm not saying that's a good thing.

36:50Tim Walz:We were calling for the security forces to give up, join the people, to stop the bloodshed. But because the Supreme Leader has continued to call for more shootings, people are fighting back. People seem to be armed and people seem to be organized and they're out in massive numbers. And they do seem to be undaunted by the crackdown. So to me, I have to say, and I think most Iranians will tell you from what we're seeing unfold as this story of Iran revolution 2026, from what we're seeing on the telegram channels, it does seem extremely different. If you are right, and this is a revolution that is unfolding, is the West paying enough attention?

37:31Jacob Frey:You know, I've been reading this stuff and I've been reading some of the stuff you've been posting over the past couple of days. And of course, there's a lot of other stuff going on in the world. It's a crazy time right now. But it does seem to me that this is pretty important in terms of the geopolitics, not just of the Middle East, but of the world.

37:47Tim Walz:If the Islamic regime falls, this is the biggest international news we would have short of contact with aliens. And I'll tell you that because Iran is strategically so important. It's a place where if that regime changes, it will change the whole region. As you know, the Islamic regime has been funding terrorism everywhere. And I think maybe one of the things that people are worried about is because the Islamic regime, a lot of my friends, a lot of, you know, left-leaning friends were supporting the women of Iran. But as soon as Iran seemed to emerge as the main country standing up to Israel, everybody was cheering on the Islamic regime.

38:27Tim Walz:I saw posters of a photograph of the supreme leader. People say, stand on the right side of history, like follow this guy. These are the people we should be standing up to. Now, I am of the opinion that people should be supporting any people who are under an oppressive regime. You know, and the fact that this regime supports Palestinians and Iranians never buy that. They've been giving all their money to Hezbollah and Hamas. The Iranian people don't buy that. They think it's paying lip service because Islamic regimes, everyone knows their whole thing is to destroy Israel and to kill all Jews everywhere.

39:01Tim Walz:That's basically everybody knows that. So the Iranian people do not stand with that. But we do support Palestinian rights. And just because you support Palestinian rights does not mean that you cannot support the people of Iran. And that has been the narrative that the Islamic regime has put into the minds of the West, that if you support the people of Iran, you're supporting Israel. So it's a shame that the people of Iran seem to be pawns that we can just forget about. And I think that's why people are not covering it. The whole thing with Gaza has muddied the waters. and a lot of people normally who'd be standing up for oppressed people are staying absolutely silent.

39:34Tim Walz:And I personally believe that is absolutely disgraceful. It's going on right now. If people want to cover it or not. And I'll tell you this one thing. What was amazing to me that the first thing The Guardian put out, The Guardian newspaper, one of our most trusted news outlets, the first thing they do is give an opinion piece to the foreign minister of the Islamic regime. What does that tell you? BBC verify. before there's been any analysis they show a video and they say we've got to verify this some people are being shot with water cannons and they say this is not right because there was a shot somebody put of someone close by with a fire hose shooting a war cannon no that's not true they're not standing the water cannons are further back well whoop-dee-doo you think that makes a big difference BBC verify that's one of the most disgraceful things I've ever seen and BBC verify totally ruined their, you know, integrity with that one thing, the first thing they put out.

40:31Tim Walz:So people are very angry with the mainstream press, but I think they're going to have to cover it now because there's too much going on. And there are too many people now coming forward and speaking up. And I think that's a very good thing.

40:44Jacob Frey:And you think it will continue? You think this has reached a critical mass where even if the police and the Republican guards come onto the streets literally all guns blazing the protests continue even last night we saw i posted

40:59Tim Walz:a video of the security forces shooting at protesters and they're not running away and and we're seeing uh basically security forces running away from the people because there's sheer force of numbers now so i don't think the story is going away but i think we all eyes on iran right now because the world the axis of the world could change i would say in the next week or two

41:20Jacob Frey:I met you Lily always a pleasure thank you very much thank you John

41:33Lewis Goodall:the news agents so yesterday on Wednesday show we talked about the extraordinary disturbing situation the latest one with X which basically involves Grok its AI chatbot being used to synthesize to make images based on real images of women and of underage children basically as their users want potentially naked in bikinis sexualized imagery whatever you want and x although they're saying they're investigating it there doesn't appear to be any sign of it receding in fact i've seen lots of content even just this morning of different examples of it despite the fact you've had people literally say to the bot that they don't including celebrities that they don't want their images to be used that way interesting we were saying yesterday i think we were both john expressing our bewilderments frustration really with the government's kind of quite milquetoast line on the whole thing like basically saying well it's a matter for ofcom it's a matter for ofcom yes we don't want to get involved no it's a matter for ofcom whether images of children can be made to you know be wearing bikinis or put into sexualized positions let's just wait for them to respond to it it's interesting lou haig who of course was a cabinet Minister under Keir Starmer before she had to resign.

42:43Lewis Goodall:But still, a sort of senior figure in the party, on the soft left of the party, tweeting out today what appears to be her last tweet, saying that she hadn't been using X much, but, like many other MPs have been using it because it was a big part of the political debate and some constituents were on there, she said, the revelations around the enablement, if not encouragement of child sexual abuse, mean it is unconscionable to use this site for another minute. I call upon my party and my government to remove themselves entirely from X and communicate with the public where they actually participate online and can be protected from such illegality.

43:15Jacob Frey:And the chances of that happening? Probably pretty slim at this stage. I mean, it's interesting that I think that there are more and more people who think, surely somewhere there is a line where you say, we cannot go any further and we cannot put up with this any longer. But then I suppose people would say, well, why don't we do it? It's a really interesting question.

43:36Lewis Goodall:We've wrestled with it on the show.

43:37Jacob Frey:I think we did a whole episode about whether or not to. We did a whole episode on it. Honestly, I don't think it needs the symbolic actions. You know, you can say, oh, look at me. I'm, you know, it goes back to sort of apartheid. I'm not going to buy Granny Smith apples because they're supporting, you're supporting the South African regime. You know, the government is in a position to influence whether X is still available to us. It can fine X. It can sanction X. It could make X unavailable. in this country if it wanted to. And yet it seems not to want to get involved in something which, you know, if the Sun newspaper started publishing sexualised images of children or a newspaper, you know, any other publisher did stuff like that, the law would come down on them like a ton of bricks.

44:29Jacob Frey:But this is an American tech company. And American tech companies have very close relations with Donald Trump. and there seems to be a fearfulness about going there well i think i noticed a few comments uh

44:41Lewis Goodall:sometimes we read them a few comments on on the show we did yesterday um which basically sort of made this point saying well what's the problem you know you can do this with adobe or whatever it's all with people have always been able to draw things or in cartoons like there are clear differences right there are clear differences usually and and two seem absolutely central to me one the ease with which this can be done this can be done instantly anyway in fact there are more than two that's one two the ability for this stuff to spread online all over the world instantly completely different to you know making a drawing or a publication being in a newspaper and three that's the other key difference when in the past images have been synthesized have been made have been drawn or whatever it happens to be and appeared in a newspaper or a magazine there is editorial accountability you know one thinks for example of the famous depiction of Mohammed in the Danish newspaper in the early 2000s.

45:32Lewis Goodall:Hugely controversial, right, that that had been drawn up and made, became a sort of cool celeb across the world. But the point was, and just like anything else, as you say, John, if the Sun newspaper put out an image like that, those newspapers could be held accountable. You can't hold, you know, Big Barry 3641 underscore asterisk, you know, exclamation mark, accountable for this stuff, right? Someone has to be held accountable. But the point is, is that X is refusing to be held accountable, which is extraordinary given that they are not just the publisher in this case but literally the technological enabler.

46:03Lewis Goodall:And therefore if they won't self-censor someone or have control their platform, someone has to do it because this is a different material order of magnitude as I'm saying to all of the things that have just been described and people saying you've always been able to draw things or you've always been able to use Adobe. This is entirely of a different order.

46:20Jacob Frey:Well we watch this space to see whether the government is going to do anything about it. we're not holding our breaths that much.

46:29Lewis Goodall:We'll be back tomorrow where we'll be talking more about Minnesota and also American politics with Mehdi Hassan, the journalist, broadcaster and authority on all things British and American, really. I'm sure it will be spirited. Very interesting guest. See you tomorrow. Bye-bye.

46:42Jacob Frey:This has been a Global Player original production.