Has antisemitism become a national emergency?

0:00Hero Bread delivers the stacked sandwiches, loaded bagels, rich mac and cheese you love, just with a better protein to calorie balance that may help fuel you longer. Made with high-quality ingredients, every bite lands soft and satisfying with up to 19 grams of protein, plus up to 32 grams of fiber per serving. Shop now at Hero.co. Code iHeart for 10 % off. All figures per serving. See calorie info at Hero.co. 34 to 48 % fewer calories than regular products. Calorie content has been reduced on average from 162 to 92 calories per serving. Data accurate as of 2020-26. This is a Global Player original podcast.

0:35A religion is now being singled out and targeted for attack in this country. None of us have seen in our lifetimes. Keir Starmer was visiting a synagogue last week. He called out Zach Polanski, the Green leader, as disgraceful. Do you agree with Keir Starmer? If you want to understand the actual threat that Jews face, just turn on the news today. Keir Starmer tweeted, we hear these sorts of words a lot. What is going to be done? You feel you're back in a ghetto that belonged to an era before the Second World War. When I say that an attack on Britain's Jews is an attack on Britain itself, I mean it.

1:12That's Sarah Sackman. She's the Justice Minister, but she's also the MP in Golders Green, where just hours ago, two people were stabbed in broad daylight by a man with a knife, the latest attack on the Jewish community of North London. Yeah. And it comes in a series of attacks on the Jewish community. Kemi Badenok has called it a national emergency of anti-Semitism. Is she right? Welcome to the News Agents.

1:50It's John. It's Maitlis. It's Lewis. And we are recording this at 1.35 sort of lunchtime on Wednesday and a lot of reports coming in of a ghastly incident in Golders Green in northwest London, very densely populated Jewish area where it seems two people have been stabbed. a man has been arrested and it is the latest in a long line of attacks that if you just go back over the past month march the 23rd four hatzola ambulances destroyed by arson at a golders green synagogue april the 15th attempted fire bombing at finchley reform synagogue april the 17th arson attacked by at a former jewish charity uh april the 19th accelerant thrown into kenton United Synagogue and a Jewish-owned shop in Watford set on fire.

2:44April the 28th, an arson attack on a memorial wall for October the 7th victims in Golders Green. The pattern is unmistakable and it does look like if you are Jewish, you are subject to attack. It is as though a religion is now being singled out and targeted for attack in this country, which is none of us have seen in our lifetimes like this. Yeah and just to put this in the context the geography of Golders Green where there are around 30 synagogues I think it's about one in two people pretty much half the population self-identify as Jewish of the Jewish faith and so this is seen as if you like one of the most if not the most concentrated areas in the entire country of Jewish residents and And on the one hand, it is sort of unmistakable that this is a pattern of anti-Semitism.

3:44And on the other hand, we've had these claims of responsibility in the past. We don't know yet about this one from a group that is in some way connected to Iran's IRGC, the Revolutionary Guard Corps. Nothing has been proven. We're going to be discussing that a little bit later. But you have this extraordinary set of circumstances where you cannot tell if this is part of community policing or community relations that needs to change or whether there are, frankly, hired guns by Iran, you know, who are being sent out to try and damage specifically one targeted community, which is somehow a sort of much bigger political question for us to get our heads round.

4:29I take it for the sake of argument that, because we can't know yet whether this is connected with Iran or not, I think what is absolutely clear is that there has now been a pattern of attacks which should make everybody in this country, everybody's blood run cold, because we're seeing a pattern of attacks against one particular ethnic minority in this country, one community, on a repeated basis. Keir Starmer tweeting, saying the anti-Semitic attack in Golders Green is utterly appalling. attacks on our Jewish community are attacks on Britain. Those responsible will be brought to justice. I think that we hear these sorts of words a lot.

5:07I think plenty of British Jews and indeed everybody else will now start to ask and wonder exactly more than words what is going to be done to prevent this from happening again and becoming a really chilling and dark recurring theme of life in our country. Kemi Badenox also tweeted saying, Jewish people in our country are under constant attack. this is no longer a growing pattern there is an epidemic of violence against jewish people this is now a national emergency and needs to be treated as such by the government and public authorities yeah i remember when we recorded the first episodes of the podcast after october the 7th which was a very dark time and the reactions to it you know i don't want to really get all of it but the point i made then and would say again now is that the guy who runs the kosher butcher shop in golders green is no more responsible for israeli foreign policy the the muslim bloke who runs the halal butcher shop is responsible for the way hamas behaved that day and the idea that you target a religious community because you don't like the policies of a country is just horrific and i've got to say that i think you know on the left there has been this view that maybe the The Jews are exaggerating a bit.

6:27And are we taking this all? You know, it's not what it seems. And there are false flag exercises. And not enough has been done by certain groups to distance themselves from some of the narratives that have been coming out when it is absolutely crystal clear that there is a campaign. Now, the Iranian involvement, I mean, remains to be proven. And it won't be that there are IRGC operatives going around with cans of petrol. They will be paying kind of little local hoodlums to do their business for them. It's rent-a-thug for not very much money. And we've seen that the Russians have done that to attack a Ukrainian warehouse where people were, you know, low-life thugs, idiots were hired.

7:12they set fire to a warehouse that is owned by Ukrainian businesses and they've been put in prison for it. I do think that, and I see David Lammy, the Deputy Prime Minister's tweet as well, saying we stand with the Jewish community, we must root out this hatred. I do think now, partly because we see that this is becoming a recurring phenomenon, whatever the origin of it, and we can't know that, we'll presumably find out more in the next 24 hours by the time we record again, What we can certainly say is that Jewish people appear to be repeatedly and consistently targeted. And are terrified. And are terrified.

7:49I mean, frankly, that's something that I think you cannot understate now. The number of people that I hear from or talk to who say, I'm thinking about getting out. Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think that I think that the the political pressure on this and the political salience of this is now going to rise and going to become more intense very quickly. And I think there will be a lot of pressure on the government to exactly spell out and the mayor of London, Sadiq Khan, to spell out exactly what does it mean when they say we stand with the Jewish community and root out this hatred?

8:23because these are easy words to say and everybody, self-evidently, or nearly everybody, would agree with them. It is harder to translate actually what that means and that feels to me now is going to become quite a big part of our politics in the coming days and weeks. And what is so horrific, and Emily, you touched on it, for the Jewish community right now, is the idea that if you go to synagogue on Friday evening or Saturday morning for the Sabbath, there's going to be a hell of a lot more security. If your kids go to a Jewish school now, you kind of you know you you send them in plain clothes they're not in school uniform so that they can be identified and there are guards outside the school and you know there have been so many things written about this from inside the jewish community where you feel you're back in a ghetto that was belonged to an era before the second world war where you kind of have to huddle together and you're not safe and the outsiders you want to keep out because you're terrified that you're going to be attacked and you know whether someone wants to go on the tube and wear a skull cap or a star of david or whether they want to wear a hijab or they should be able to do this utterly freely and it is something that is so damning indictment of our society and community now that this is happening and the politicians are saying it can't go on like this without any idea realistically of what to do.

9:49Yeah, this is broad daylight, midweek on a major arterial road in the capital city. I mean, what is interesting is how quick the response came. Shomrim, which is the community policing, was on this. Hatsola, the people that lost four of their ambulances in one of the previous attacks you mentioned, were on this. The Met Police also incredibly fast at getting to this, which is, you know, on the one hand, a moment of triumph and thank God. And on the other hand, the fact that everyone is on alert, right? They're all on alert because they are now expecting this to happen on a near daily basis. And that's not a great place to be.

10:30What I hope is that the politicians can come together over this and not score political points. I had a story about, you know, the London mayoral candidate for reform trying to film a thing outside a Jewish school where the Jewish school said, please we don't want to be filmed we don't want to be part of a political dog fight but it went ahead this person i mean the the mayoral candidate for reform actually ended up taking this video down but it was about making scoring points of sadiq khan hasn't kept this community safe and now they have to hide behind this sort of thing for god's sake this is bigger than the party political dog fight this is a real challenge about what it is to be british because it doesn't shouldn't matter whether you're Jewish or you're Catholic or you're Protestant or you're Muslim or you're Hindu or whatever you want to be.

11:20You should be able to practice your religion freely in this country without fear of being attacked because of your religion. And at the moment that feels under threat. Well joining us right now is the Justice Minister Sarah Sackman who is right in the middle of this story. She's also the MP for Finchley and Golders Green. Sarah I know you've just been talking to the Home Secretary. Has anything come of that which sounds like a sort of change of plan or a policy? What did she say? She was resolute. She understands just how serious the situation is. She was right on top of the detail about to take briefings from the Met Police.

12:04she understands just how serious this is that an attack on Britain's Jews is an attack on Britain itself. She has always been somebody who's been a champion of community cohesion and understanding that our togetherness as a country and not just as a community depends on the ability not just of communities to feel empowered to go about their daily lives, but of state institutions, of civil society to stand with them. And what I heard from her was a commitment to look at security arrangements. But she also said to me very clearly, the Jewish community, and she's right about this, doesn't want to live behind higher and higher walls.

12:50She understands, as I think the Prime Minister understands and the government understands, that it is essential that we get to grips with this problem and identify what is driving at this hate. We also spoke about the importance of prescribing the IRGC, the Iranian Revolutionary Guard. Whilst that's not necessarily linked to the incident we've heard about today, it is a vital step and I was pleased to see the Prime Minister commit to it. Sarah, just on that specific point, do you believe that And at the top of this podcast, we listed some of the attacks. I didn't list the failed plots, but I listed the attacks.

13:33Do you believe that Iran in some way might be behind some of these attacks or are these random attackers? A number of people have been arrested and are going through the sort of process of justice right now. But do you believe there is an Iranian connection there? It's too soon to say about the incident today. but I think there is certainly activity that is backed by the malign regime in Iran. We've seen groups claim credit linked to Iran. We know that there are suspects who have been investigated and charged for surveillance of Jewish targets in London. So I've got no doubt that this is part of the problem.

14:18It's not the sole part of the problem. We've seen, regrettably, that anti-Semitism, whether it's rooted in Islamist extremism or from other sources, I'm afraid there is nothing new. And we've seen a spike in anti-Semitic incidents over a period. But this most recent terror, because I think that is what it is, it is leading to terror and huge anxiety right across London and Jewish communities in the country. there are elements here that are certainly linked to the Iranian regime. So how would proscribing the IRGC change anything? I'm just trying to understand, like when you talked about community cohesion, if there's an actual terrorist group that is trying to weave terror in this particular community, what does that change how you fight it?

15:10I think we've got to fight racism and anti-Semitism on many fronts. Prescription is a tool that government can use and has used in the past to good effect. It has said it should use it here and it should do so. But it's not the only source of anti-Semitism. We know that extremism and hate can be homegrown as well. It's why I think that the work, the hard, long work of social cohesion about building ties between different communities is so important, not just to prevent radicalisation, which is real, but also, I think, to build resilience in British society. I can say to you that since this latest incident has happened, in common with other incidents, my phone has been off the hook.

16:00I've had messages from right across the Jewish community about the very real fear that people are experiencing. But I've also had messages from local priests, imams, faith leaders, people of no faith, expressing their solidarity. Allies are everywhere. And I believe that the British moderate majority stands with its British Jewish community. But I will say this too, that if there were a moment where we need British society, along with government to stand up and show its solidarity with our British Jewish community that time is now sarah look i'm sure you are a jewish mp in a largely jewish constituency where i'm sure a lot of your constituents are saying but hang on you this government have helped ferment some of this with the endless hate marches that took place every weekend and that sowed the seeds of intimidation and the growth of anti-semitism do you think as a government you have some responsibility not of course there's no causal link between one thing and another but creating an atmosphere where it sort of legitimizes an anti-semitism well you're right john that i represent one of the most diverse constituencies in the country and i am not only the mp for finch and gold is green which has a large and diverse jewish community but i'm a member of that community as well.

17:25I've got skin in the game, so to speak. I think the suggestion that the government has fomented a climate of hate is a suggestion that I totally reject. Is it right to say that marches and ambient anti-Semitism, which may take place in the workplace, the sort of anti-Semitism that allowed for the casual booking of a well-known anti-Semite in the form of Kanye West. You know, that concert would have been full if organisers had allowed it to go ahead. Do I think that is contributing to a climate of fear? I do. Do I think the government has been passive? I don't. When I called on the Home Secretary to ban the Al-Quds march, she responded.

18:08We have taken action as a government to ban face coverings at these marches, to prevent their cumulative impact, to stop them taking place outside Jewish places of worship. We believe in free speech in this country. It's important that people are allowed to protest, but there is a world of difference between that and marching to promote hate. So of course government has a responsibility and it's a responsibility that the government takes very seriously but I want to say this we have a responsibility to keep people safe, we have a responsibility to tackle anti-Semitism whether on campuses, whether in public services, whether in the workplace but there is a there is as I said earlier a role for civil society here as well for other institutions to step up and where they see anti-Semitism to call it out.

18:52And that's what I think we all need to do. And just on the question of it being a national emergency, which is what Kemi Bevenok has said today, how easy will it be for the parties to work together on this? Because, you know, she's probably right that there is something of an emergency about the surge in anti-Semitic attacks. Isn't it important that it's taken out of party politics and just become something where all sides can agree that urgent action needs to be taken. I would welcome that, John, to be honest with you. I think that the Jewish community is a canary in the coal mine. What starts with Jews doesn't end with Jews.

19:32When I say that an attack on Britain's Jews is an attack on Britain itself, I mean it. Those remarks have been echoed from the top to bottom of government And I would welcome cross-party working on this. This is a genie that's out the bottle. It's not going to be easy to put back in. We need solidarity from all different communities and from all different institutions. and I think that there are some things that are above politics and I would hope that everybody can not just condemn this but come together to work on the values that we share as British people and thereby stand with our British community to say that you're not just tolerated, you're not just accepted but you are British.

20:16I'm reminded of a phrase, I was recently in Amsterdam visiting with my children and I took my children to the Anne Frank house and she had a line in her diary saying that she looked forward to the day where we could get back to just being people, not Jews. I know that many British Jews and I feel exactly the same. On exactly that point, Sarah, when Keir Starmer was visiting a synagogue last week, he called out Zach Polanski, the Green leader, as disgraceful for saying it was important to distinguish between the actual threat to the Jewish community and the perception of unsafety. Do you agree with Keir Starmer?

20:55Do you think that is disgraceful? Or do you think that Zach Polanski has allowed what he calls nuance in this debate? What do you feel? I think it's quite simple. If you want to understand the actual threat that Jews face, just turn on the news today. There have been Jews stabbed in my constituency for no other reason than they are Jewish. And if you want to understand how racism and terror works, It's designed to strike fear into people, not just about what's actually happening, but what may happen. And that is where those who are seeking to divide us, who do not share our values, are seeking to sow that fear.

21:33That is what they are doing through petrol bombing towards synagogues, through surveillance of Jewish sites, of nurseries. When I take my children to Hebrew school on a Sunday, I'm holding their hands that little bit tighter. That's not perception, that's reality. And so I hope that across the political divide, people wake up and understand that once again, an attack on Britain's Jews is an attack on British values. Sarah Seckman, thank you. Thanks for joining us. Thank you very much. Thank you very much.

22:10from a range of trusted voices and award-winning journalists good morning i'm nick ferrari it's time to get to your calls find out the latest news and hear every side of the story there is also a judgment i made that was wrong i should not have appointed peter mandelson and i apologize again to the victims of the pedophile jeffrey epstein who were clearly failed by my decision The pendulum has become turbocharged over the last few days, swinging hither and thither with gay abandon. So where is it now regarding the Prime Minister? Listen on our free Global Player app or the LBC app. LBC, leading Britain's conversation.

22:52Organic Valley Protein Plus ultra-filtered milk is pasture-raised from cows that might take more steps than most people. That's a plus. And it has 50 % more protein and 50 % less sugar than regular milk. That's a big plus. And the fact that I didn't make a pun about moving, also a plus. Organic Valley Protein Plus Ultra-Filtered Milk. Protein plus pasture-raised. Learn more at organicvalley.com.

23:28So we now understand a little better why the king will have been so apprehensive, I guess, about how his speech to Congress would be received and would go down. Because the truth is, he did not hold back. It was far more political than I think certainly many in the room were expecting and certainly many of us at home were expecting. And as we said on Monday, there was an element of speak over the head of the principal here, Donald Trump, and tell the people in the room and at home what your real message is. And so he went to places that were, quite frankly, in the lion's den. He talked about NATO and he talked specifically about Article 5, which was invoked by European nations after 9-11 to help America.

24:22I don't think that was not deliberate. And he talked about Ukraine and the importance of helping Ukraine. And at one point, he clearly talked about the potential excesses of executive power. Just have a listen to this phrase, because this was aimed quite firmly at those who wanted to over-exaggerate their role and to all those who might be allowing that to happen. Roots go even further back in history. The US Supreme Court Historical Society has calculated that Magna Carta is cited in at least 160 Supreme Court cases in 1789, not least as the foundation of the principle that executive power is subject to checks and balances.

25:23He gets a big round of applause there and a standing ovation. Clearly, the Democrats are on their feet there, but also a lot of Republicans. And the King delivers it with that extraordinarily mellifluous voice and is at times quite cheeky. And I was doing a bit of digging around. I said, who's the speechwriter behind this to somebody in the know? and I was told it's a team effort but likely to be Joshua Pools who is the private secretary on Commonwealth Matters who worked for Charles right back when he was the Prince of Wales and is now doing a stint at Buckingham Palace. So in other words, somebody who knows Charles inside out and will have understood the remit of this which was to reach into places that very few other international leaders frankly would dare to go.

26:11Yeah, I thought what he did well was also to deploy that light touch humour bonhomie as well whilst delivering tough messages. And, you know, you listed a few, you know, the king went on about his own service in the Royal Navy and his family's historic service in the Royal Navy. I wonder why he felt it necessary to talk about that. He talked about the challenges to the environment and how we mustn't, you know, despoil the planet. I wonder why he felt it necessary to say that. And on and on it went. Areas where Britain is at odds with the United States and in particular at odds with Donald Trump.

26:52But it was all done with such a light touch. And, you know, he was talking about America, you know, has been here for 250 years or as we would say in the UK just the other day. I mean, so it was very carefully crafted. I mean, I suppose the big question is in the longer sweep, what difference will it make? In the short term, I think what it achieves is to underline that whilst Donald Trump may sound off about Starmer, there are bigger things and more important things at stake. And the king spoke about that and the historic ties of that relationship. I think the king did as well as anybody might do in this situation and in fairness to him it may end up being a defining moment of his reign in the sense that I can't quite imagine his late mother delivering that sort of speech and being quite as pointed as he was I think it is a different style of kingship, a different style of diplomacy he clearly had some things he wanted to say and certainly some in America have welcomed it and I think lots of people on this side of the Atlantic and in Europe will have welcomed those subtle rebukes to Trump about executive power, as you say, Emily, although I think, you know, a British king going over to the United States to lecture the American Congress and American president about the excesses of executive power.

28:12If he feels that he's in a place where... History is having a good old chuckle. But that's the point. When a monarch feels... When a monarch who is unelected can still start lecturing, you know, a republic on how they abuse power, then America is in a funny old place, right? He's in a funny old place. I mean, you know, yeah, Trump is, for all of his successes, though, at least elected. So I suppose, you know, he's got that. I mean, the only thing I'd say is I do think that we have sort of seen this story play out before, which is that, you know, we've had 10 years now of either royal or political visits in both sides and both directions of the Atlantic.

28:45They do tend to have this is slightly unusual because because the king has certainly decided to make some subtle rebukes at or about Trump. Although I think that can be exaggerated to some extent. I mean, most of it is pretty lighthearted. 95, 99 percent of everything he was saying was the usual kind of traditional diplomatic gaff about how close, you know, we are and all those sorts of things and special relationship. And we have seen this play out before in the sense that, you know, let's be honest. I mean, if anyone's expecting this to make any difference to anything Trump does, it clearly won't.

29:14Trump in so far as Trump, Trump wouldn't have even understood most of what the king was saying. Right. There was that good gag he had about saying, you know, oh, Mr. President, you were saying the other day that were it not for you, we in Europe and we in Britain would be speaking German. Well, can I just subtly remind you? Well, actually, let's just hear the end of the gag. Indeed, you recently commented, Mr. President, that if it were not for the United States, European countries would be speaking German. Dare I say that if it wasn't for us, you'd be speaking French. good gag but trump will not have understood it he will have had no clue what it even referred to or what it even meant and insofar if he does at some point kind of connect the dots and i think there were certainly some people including jd vance who did not applaud at all the moments that some other uh american politicians who were in um who are in congress were applauding if others do connect the dots then you can actually completely imagine that at some point trump or others will start to express their displeasure with some of these things i mean When I say we've played this before, what Trump does is that he loves the royal afterglow.

30:17He loves being around it. He loves strutting around like a sort of peacock, pretending that he himself is a king. And we saw the White House literally tweet out a picture of the two of them saying two kings trolling all of his trolling all of his opponents, as he often does. But he banks it. He enjoys it. And then literally 24, 36, 48 hours later, he moves on. Let's not forget that it was only in September, September, that we had his visit here. At that visit, the state dinner at Windsor Castle, an experience Trump described as one of the highest honours of my life. Merely months later, he's attacking the Royal Navy and belittling Keir Starmer as a coward for not entering the US-Israeli war in Iran.

30:57I think that's right, but make no mistake, I think that was a roast. I think it was an actual royal roast. And if you go away and if Trump... That's got to be grouse, surely. Maybe grouse, maybe quail. But I think if Trump were to go away and just have somebody spell out to him just quite how many moments that was deeply insulting. You know, the Royal Navy, as you say, is about the Straits of Hormuz. NATO is about Trump saying we don't need you. And Charles saying, actually, you really did. Ukraine is you've abandoned our friends. We get that. There was a piece which was about real estate on the White House.