Have PSG exposed the Premier League? - The Sports Agents

0:01This is a Global Player Original Podcast.

0:30I won't name the club because it wouldn't be nice on them but I was told he's not ready for the Premier League but Pukva Eskelia Old Trafford and he become your new hero automatically

0:47Hello Mark Hello Gabby have you dried out again? Yeah I've not had much luck with weather this season and England's not having much luck in terms of its teams in the Champions League is it? because Liverpool are now the latest team to leave the Champions League at the quarterfinal stage and we've just got one left where there were six there is one I know I mean that was actually one of Liverpool's better performances though wasn't it I watched it for I watched it till Paris Saint-Germain scored the first then I switched to Atletico Madrid Barcelona which was which was sensational for the last 15-20 minutes the other games always seem to be the better games this season for us I'm afraid to say you're right Paris Saint-Germain though last night I don't know what you felt didn't feel they were going through anything like the gears that they can they didn't need to they were just absorbing pressure in the first half because they have been the team this season that has played with intensity and swagger and freedom yeah yeah and they felt there was a period wasn't there sort of around when Liverpool thought they'd got a penalty there was a sort of 10-15 minute period there where it felt a little bit like Paris Saint-Germain were were rocking and maybe if that penalty had stood it could have changed it could have changed then that could have changed and I know Arna Slott was was annoyed about the fact that it didn't stand and it did feel they were rocking a little bit there but certainly attacking wise it did feel a little bit like they were within themselves didn't it and if they needed to click then they would well they are definitely a team that is a sharp contrast to a lot of what has been this season complained about as being the Premier League's pragmatism.

2:24And you have said, haven't you, that you would pay, or the only team you would pay to see in the Premier League who show a bit of that swagger is Bournemouth. Well, they're the first team that come to mind when they play with a freedom and a swagger. And look, I am sure that they will have tactical plans for whoever their opponents are, but it feels like they don't often change the way they operate to suit the opposition. I suppose that's what I mean. Yeah, well, their head coach, Andoni Iriola, will be leaving at the end of the season. There are a lot of clubs, I'm imagining right now, who are very interested in him.

3:02So we're going to be discussing that and whether or not the Premier League largely has got a bit boring. Welcome to the Sports Agents. So, Mark, Iriola has said for a while that he's leaving at the end of the season. And the question I want to ask you, and I've thought about this a lot this morning, is if he turned up at Manchester United next season, do you feel at all conflicted about what Michael Carrick has done for you? Or would you be welcoming with open arms? I think that is such a difficult question because there will be some people who may have given a different answer on Monday morning as opposed to Tuesday morning.

3:48Do you know what I mean? And that obviously is not the way to run a football club by any means. That's what you call real short-termism. That's what you call real short-termism. But that's how some people's feelings are swayed. Look, I suppose what you would say is that Ira Ola has a greater body of evidence within the Premier League, but still hasn't necessarily won anything. So if you're saying that Oliver Glasner is leaving Crystal Palace at the end of the season, then they had a certain style until it all went a bit wrong in that odd period this season. And he has won something. But there's a contrast there.

4:32I'm going to come in because I might forget this thought. There's a contrast between those two that I've just popped in my head. Iriel has had to cope with so many big players leaving. And Glasner has complained about big players leaving. So who's coped better? I would argue. Yeah, 100%. 100%. And then the other thing, and this is nothing against Irola whatsoever, is you have to always look at the system that they operate in, don't they? This is what we talk about so often. And Bournemouth, as a football club, and how much Irola, you would have thought he has some input into this,

5:04is whenever Bournemouth lose anybody, they seem to replace them with somebody who is immediately ready to go as that person's replacement. whether it's Ryan who's replaced Semenya, whether you could say Truffaut at the start of the season who replaced Kirkes. So it's such a, I know in the podcast world, everybody wants a very black and white answer, but it is actually, it is layered though, isn't it, Gabby? Because of the structure. You could say the same thing with Thomas Frank, then going on to Keith Andrews at Brentford. They work within this structure that allows them to do what they do. Graham Potter.

5:37So is this, you know... Would he be better off going to Bilbao and having a great life, his boyhood club and having, you know, there's a vacancy there. But in a lifestyle point of view, I mean, that would be the dream for him. But how much does he want to put pressure on his career, I guess is the question. And also you then have to wonder, I mean, what do you think? There could well be several Premier League clubs. Newcastle, you know. Newcastle may be one. City may be one. I mean, Chelsea gave Liam Rossini a six-year contract. and all of a sudden by him becoming available in the football that they're playing and he never breaks a contract, does he, Erala?

6:15Apparently that was one of the big things. He goes to the end of his contract and then looks at what's there. There will be a bun fight for him and Palace, I think, have thrown their hat in by all accounts, haven't they? So we did interview him, of course, didn't we, last year in May, so that interview is still there if you want to go back and listen because he talks a lot there about his passion for cycling. It was the start of the Tour de France, wasn't it? And he loves cycling. He just seemed a man when we chatted to him that had more to him than just football. And I think that is so important as well.

6:48But I actually think there is a similarity there with Carrick, having interviewed Carrick and spent time with Carrick. I think there is that. Carrick is a bit more balanced, I think, than some football managers. You want to talk about coaching as well, though, don't you? I do, because this story has been around for a few days. Marie-Louise Etta has become the first female head coach in Europe's top five men's league. She's taken interim charge of Union Berlin. But it's not so much about her and that breakthrough moment, if you like, for women's coaching. It's the story kind of on side of that that's also broke this week, that FIFA have now issued a directive that any country has to have by September a female coach on its coaching staff.

7:32And I think that is the big breakthrough, actually, because I think I talk a lot to people about coaching and why women don't make it through. And not because I want there to be a female Premier League coach, but why women in all sports don't coach. And there's a lot of lifestyle issues, you know, because it's very hard if you're doing grassroots coaching for women to juggle the kind of family thing and all that sort of stuff going on while they're trying to work and everything else because it's unpaid. And so it's trying to make a pathway for women. And I think if you can see more women earning a living coaching, then you can believe that is a possibility for you.

8:04And so I think that's why, as well as the fact that I think women bring something different to the table in any environment. And I think if you've got a staff of coaches, having a different input and a different understanding, especially in women's sport, is really important because it does put a lot of girls off, you know, at a certain age if they're only being coached by men. Yeah, absolutely. And also that, because that is a thing as well, you know, you go through grassroots sport. We talked about this before as well, that it was always seen as an advantage for, you know, if a girl was really good to be on a boys team.

8:37Well, actually, now lots of girls don't want to be on boys teams. They want to be on their own and striving for success that they're doing. How will FIFA implement this, by the way? Well, I mean, how would they penalise a country that did have it? Yeah, it's a very good point because culturally, a lot of the African nations and the Asians from the Middle East, you know, don't have female coaches. So yeah, how are they going to implement it? Are they going to dock points, you know, in qualification? They can't do that because then you're holding back the, you know, the females who are playing the sport.

9:11So, you know, I haven't drilled down into what their penalties are going to be, but you're right. That is something that you can't fast track, or maybe they are saying you fast track people into these positions. But I don't know if it means we're going to be any closer to a female head coach in the Premier League. Do you think you'll see that in your lifetime? Well, first of all, I've got to work out how long I might live to. Let's say you're going to live for another 40 years. God almighty. I'm not saying you're presenting match the day for 40 years. No, no, no. Just concentrate to the end of this contract, shall we?

9:44Yes, I would think so. Yeah, that seems like a very long time. And if the opportunity has already arisen in the Bundesliga, then I don't necessarily see why that would then take another crikey 30 years why what about you yeah I think within my lifetime but but maybe not the next decade I mean the the interesting thing with with her is as well with Etta is that she was coaching the under 19s side and had actually been at the club since 2023 so to sort of answer the question a little bit more analytically we'd have to go through coaching setups within the different Premier League clubs. Yeah, and how many women are involved in any age group.

10:35Lucy Ward used to be involved at Leeds United, the co-commentator who does a lot of TNT work. She used to be involved at Leeds United in the underage groups before she decided that coaching wasn't the direction of travel she was going in. But I don't know of any female coaches of underage groups. No, I don't actually either. There must be, mustn't there? There must be. There must be. And I think for young boys of 13, 14, whatever, it's probably much more normal for them. Yes, absolutely. Than, say, the generation of pundits that we work with. Yeah, 100%. Remember, you can catch up on previous episodes on YouTube, Global Player or wherever you get your pods.

11:11Please subscribe or follow and leave us a review. As PSG have swept aside another Premier League opponent in the Champions League in their usual style. Actually, it was less swagger last night and more just getting down to business. But we know they are a team of great style and substance. How much is that a reflection on the Premier League? Julian Leroy joins us next.

11:39Jules, thank you very much for being with us. Is that a happy face, a smug face? Are you going to win it again? Thank you for having me on again. Oh, yeah, sorry. Thank you for being on and everything. It's a happy smile. It's a happy face. I think there will be bigger games, I think, than, no offence to Liverpool, but than what we saw in those two quarterfinals, really, especially if it's Bayern Munich, who I think are the other outstanding team left in the competition. But again, to knock out another English club is always sweet, Chappers, you know that. And that's what we want to talk about, actually.

12:15It's the style that PSG play, the swagger that they play with, and the fact that they make Premier League clubs, well, they make light work of Premier League clubs, don't they? I don't think they've really been pushed in their encounters. And that Dembele stat as well, I thought was interesting. He's scored his last five knockout goals against English clubs. Is that a reflection of how good they are or just how easy to unpick the Premier League clubs are when it gets to this stage of the season, do you think? Maybe a bit of both, Gabi, really, you're right. I think the way PSG play, which is very particular, there are not many teams in Europe who play like that.

12:50Again, we can look at Bayern Munich and even them. Tactically, it's a little bit different than what Ruiz Henriquez has built with his team, which is pretty incredible in possession, certainly. But we talk a lot about physicality, right, and athleticism in the Premier League and how important that is, the intensity. But Vitinha and Joe Neves and Zaire Emre to some extent, more than always, are not tall and they're not physical yet. They run a lot and, yes, they're intense when they're on the ball, but physically they're not monsters at all. And I think it also shows that the way the Premier League has been going, which is not a bad thing, it's just styles and things evolve all the time in football, right?

13:29But the way Luis Enrique has set this team up, even the wingers, to be fair, Dwayne and Gwara Scalia to a certain extent, just bring something a little bit different. And when Premier League clubs face a team like PSG, or I would say a bit similar to Bayern Munich, they're just not used to that. And it's very hard to defend against. It's very hard to press against. Far more difficult than any team that you would play in the Premier League who are looking all quite similar, to be fair now. Does Ligue 1 then have a slightly more chaotic feel to it when you watch that compared to watching the Premier League?

14:02I mean, saying this example last week or the week before, you know, sometimes see Serie A games on a Sunday night when you're in the match of the day office or whatever. even the Milan derby felt like it was end to end which you wouldn't have expected of that followed the stereotype 15-20 years ago but actually it was a really enjoyable watch and quite a lot of Serie A games on the Sunday I know they're the pick of the bunch are an enjoyable more of an enjoyable watch Yeah you're right absolutely I think with Ligue 1 it's interesting because and that's what Premier League clubs can do really and even when they try to do like sit back a bit like Liverpool in the first leg in Paris or Chelsea in the second leg at home.

14:43It's difficult because that's not how Liverpool or Chelsea play, let alone City and Arsenal and all those English teams that PSG have faced really in the last 18 months or so. So you're playing, it's very counterproductive to try something that you're not used to. We can go back to the back three that Slott had in Paris in the first leg, which they've never played with before. I don't think it can work. In Ligue 1 it's a little bit different because you know that twice a year against PSG, suddenly you park the bus and you try to sit and frustrate them as much as possible. On a bad day, you can call them in transition on a counter-attack.

15:18It's hard for the top English clubs to do that. This is not what you do on a weekly basis in your league. So that adaptation, I think, has proved very difficult for them. So they are not atypical of Ligue 1, PSG. It's not like, obviously, every match, they're coming up against a very similar style of football then. So they are the outliers. They are a bit. What's interesting, I think, with Ligue 1 is because we don't have the money anyway, and because we are still very much a feeder league. So you basically try to get through your academy, the players and the profiles that you're looking for. And what Luis Enrique is doing in France is exactly what, to some extent, Wenger has done a long time ago in England.

16:01And then Guardiola has done, but also others in other countries. You get inspiration for that. Nobody else in France can play like PSG and Wiss & Wicke. However, this idea of mobility, this idea of fluidity within your structure, whatever style you play and whatever system you play, really is something you can try to copy, you know, or at least try to inspire yourself from. So maybe you look for profiles that are a bit like that. So number eight, like Joe Neves, who can really do everything. You can play a right back, a left back, a bit deeper, a bit higher up. He can run, he can keep the ball well, he can dribble if needs be.

16:36Vitinha will be the same, Zaire Remry will be the same. And you start looking at those kind of profiles, maybe in Belgium for us or in Scandinavia, or through your own academy and your formation and your post-formation, especially when the players get to 16, 17, slightly guide them to a different style of football, which works. For the Premier League, it's very different. One, you've got a lot of foreigners. Two, your academy products are, you know, really good enough probably to play, especially in those top teams. So you're far more dependent on your recruitment. And we go back to what is inevitably at the heart of this all.

17:11You have to be very good at your recruitment. And we saw with Liverpool last night, especially that recruitment last summer didn't really work out. Just on recruitment, and you mentioned Jean Neves there. You could probably say Kroger Scalier as well, maybe even Pacho at the back. I can't remember there being an absolute bun fight for these players. Yes, you know, some of the Premier League clubs may have sniffed around Kovac Scalia or João Neves, but Paris Saint-Germain, it feels like more often than not, get a free run at their targets. Do they? Or have I completely misread that? No, no, you're right.

17:53I mean, we talked about it together on March of the Day during the league phase. How come Vaz Kalia never came to the Premier League instead of PSG? It's beyond us, really. I can't believe there was not one of the top... But who in the Premier League, Julian, who in the Premier League would let him play the way he plays for PSG? Which team would accommodate that? I don't know where he would fit in. No, you're right. But still, if you're Arsenal and now you're crying out for a player on that left wing, if you're even Manchester City, okay, there's Doku, but for another option too. Chelsea, I know the edge might have been a bit of an issue for their policy, but Manchester United, I mean, right now, I know Cunha plays there and he's a good player, but Pukva Askelia, Old Trafford, and he become your new hero automatically, instantly almost.

18:42And I can't believe that for Pat Shaw, I was told I won't name the club because it wouldn't be nice on them, but I was told he's not ready for the Premier League. I mean, I watched him last night again. I just cannot believe that somebody actually watched him at Frankfurt and thought, nah, he's too young, he's not ready, he's a bit too raw. And you can look at other options. And I know there's this quite famous now idea of you need a platform in between maybe Portugal and the Premier League or smaller clubs in Germany and the Premier League or France and the top clubs in the Premier League, maybe less so with France.

19:15But the Eredivisie and the Premier League, let's see in between somewhere like a good Italian team or a good French team. and then you spend $100 and$120 million on those players. I think right now with all the data and scouting that we have available, this is not working anymore. I agree with you. I just say that's so lazy on clubs and gives them an excuse to kind of... Do you know what it says, Mark? It says they're not prepared to actually coach. It feels like they want some kind of ready-made boil-in-the-bag that is going to work. And actually, what Luis Enrique has done with those players and his coaching staff is get them up to the speed where they're winning the Champions League.

19:58You're ready for the Premier League, aren't you? Yeah, and you could have had Pacho for£30 million. Now, if you want to come and get him and, you know, you can try, it would be three times the price, like easily or between two and a half times the price of that. But you could have had him a year ago from Frankfurt, a bit like what Liverpool did with the KTK, which is a slightly different example too, because they really wanted ISAC. And if Eastside comes first, I'm not sure they still go for a Kitike in second. We talked about that on the radio with Trappers earlier in the season. So that's a little bit different.

20:29But it's this idea that they might not be ready. Let's wait until they play for maybe a Napoli or a PSG or even a Lyon or Marseille, you know, a few years ago, maybe, or Milan. And then if they do it, then we go and spend 80 or 90 million on them. Do you think also that those kind of mavericks and Cherky at the weekend was, you know, kind of doing a little bit of keepy uppies when he was off the pitch with his, he was doing bottle flips. He was wearing a TK shirt for 20 minutes and Pep Guardiola said he's a free soul. And those kinds of characters, which I think most of us kind of love in sport and you kind of gravitate towards, just find, you know, maybe the Premier League is not a natural home always, unless you've got a manager like Pep who understands a little bit and maybe hasn't got the same, he's got a different kind of pressure.

21:21But because he's won so much and he knows how to get a team, you know, kind of going at the right time of the season and all of that, he maybe can take a bit of a risk. But other managers just feel they're under so much pressure. It's difficult to manage those kinds of people. Yeah, maybe. I mean, you can also look at Grealish and Pep and think Grealish was your kind of English maverick, really, in terms of the dribbling ability and what he used to do before at Vela. And how Pep just wanted him in a slightly different role to make this team win and this team won. They won a lot with Grealish in that kind of changed role and even changed style.

21:55For Cherki, I think Cherki is unchangeable anywhere. You could try like with Grealish and you could try to implement that in him and to coach that side out of him, but he's such a street player that would never work. But yeah, I think you're right. I think those kind of guys, like nobody would sign Atem Ben Alfa right now in the top 10 in the Premier League because I think you would take that risk and you would think about we need results, we need performance here. I can't have somebody that doesn't fit within the structure. And with Cherokee, for all the good things, there's also times where Pep is scratching his head and rolling his eyes and being like, come on, I just want you to be a bit more disciplined.

22:30But that's not going to work and that's the beauty of it. But you're right. I think for a lot of those top English clubs, for example, there's not that creativity anymore. There's not that kind of fluidity that you could see in a Cherokee. It has to be disciplined. It has to be structured. It has to be well-drained. We were talking, myself and Gabby, earlier about Irola and the managerial merry-go-round that's about to go into full swing. Where does Luis Enrique fit in all of this for you? He's got another year left on his contract. There was a big dinner yesterday in Liverpool. They didn't come back straight after the game like a lot of teams usually do after midweek Champions League or European games.

23:16So there was a big party where everybody, as you can imagine, was very happy at that party. And again, Nasser Al-Khalafi, the PSG president, said to Luis how much they want him to stay. And 2027 is the end of that contract. June 2027, they've been talking now for a few weeks for an extension. Everybody seems very positive about him. Probably staying another year at least, so up to 2028. Because if you look at it, this is his third semifinal in a row. He's changed his club. This is his team very much. He's the king. He's the king of the castle. He can ask for anything. They would give it to him.

23:51Player-wise, you know, I don't know, anything. Accessories-wise, whatever you want. He's that kind of guy now. So he's on something good and I think he knows it. But like I said yesterday on Five Live 2 on Tuesday night from Anfield, for me, it's undoubtedly at some point he will come to the Premier League. One, because he dreams of coaching here. Two, because as he's explained before the game, when Luis Garcia gave him those tickets to go to the Merseyside Derby, Anfield, in the Cup, to watch it, he was gobsmacked by the atmosphere and everything. And I think he really wants to experience that one day.

24:23So I'm sure he will end up on one of the benches of one of the big English clubs. So that will happen. But I think he still has one year for sure, probably two years still in Paris, I think. We talk a lot about the pressure of the competitions that all the English clubs have to compete in to the very end. And, you know, in April, they could be in FA Cup semifinals. They can be in Carabao Cup finals the month before. They can be in, you know, two Premier League games a week going through. I think Newcastle had gone since last year until they got knocked out of the Carabao while they were playing two games a week and not playing, having a week off.

25:00In Ligue 1, there's a lot more flexibility for PSG, isn't there, in terms of being able to move fixtures, have time off in the week. And I know a lot has been made of this before, but it does allow them, it would seem, to peak at the right time and to physically manage their players because they had a slow start in the Champions League, didn't they? They didn't get out the blocks and finish top of the league phase. With six days of training together, before that, to play this style of football, the Luis Enrique style of football, you need to be so fit and so intense. And if you're not, even if you're just 80%, it's not going to click, it's not going to work.