Should Mamdani's win in NYC be a wake-up call for Labour?

17:16Wes Streeting:authentic yes and that she's pitch rolling ahead of the budget which is going to be a challenging budget to put it mildly and what you will get from rachel and i think she did say this yesterday in her speech is she she's not always going to be making popular decisions but she's making decisions that she believes is right and she'll make the case for what's the point of saying that when

17:40The News Agents Hosts:You're not even telling us what the decisions are and you're not even spelling out what is popular and what isn't popular. I mean, we know with Mamdani, I know it's early days, but we know he's going to freeze rents and we know a lot of people who have money in the city are terrified of him. Right. And he's going, that's fine. I don't care. She's not doing that. You're not doing that as a government.

17:58Wes Streeting:Well, no, not least because in terms of our economy and trying to get growth back into our economy and make sure that we can invest in progressive ends in our country, far from wanting to frighten off investment, we want to encourage it. And so the discipline we've shown, the stability we're trying to bring back to the British economy is crucial.

18:20The News Agents Hosts:He could have said we cannot risk the capitalist beacon that is New York City. He didn't say that. And look what the investors are saying now. they're saying actually we'll try and work with him because it seems he's really popular well it's

18:29Wes Streeting:quite a different it's quite a different platform being mayor of a big city compared to being with you know the finance minister of a g7 country which is what rachel was doing so it's a different it's a different platform it's a different set of challenges and i think mamdani he has positioned himself well to appeal to a broad base of support and to win an election where he was the rank outsider from the beginning of course he's also now got to deliver that's your challenge on us which I don't want to duck that question, certainly not going to personalise criticism of colleagues, but just to, I think, reflect on what could be a danger for Labour as we go further into this Parliament, it is really important that we don't allow ourselves to be positioned as or perceived as the defenders of a broken status quo.

19:17Wes Streeting:And the challenge as you go further into a Parliament and look at the breadth of challenge, I mean, look at the news today, another prisoner manhunt underway. These are all symptoms and proof points for a country that was fundamentally, I almost dropped the F-bomb, by our predecessors. We came into a broken economy, broken public services and broken trust in politics itself. And we've got to continue to be the insurgent. We've got to carry on being... That's just blaming the other people. No, no, no, no, quite the opposite. It's really important. We came in to be change and to drive change, to deliver change.

19:54Wes Streeting:It's really important we keep that insurgency and do not allow ourselves to own conservative failure. Our responsibility is to clean up the mess and do that. But that's where I think we've just got to be a bit careful as we go further into this parliament and our incumbency begins to build. OK, you talked about the kind of need to, you know, the discipline of Mamdani's messaging, the digital content, the social media content, how good it was and how he understood the attention economy of you need to be communicating the whole time and giving a clear message. Are you as a government doing well enough on that now?

20:31Wes Streeting:Well, objectively, no, we need to do better when it comes to getting our message across about what we're doing, why we're doing it and the values that are driving our decisions. I thought one of the real strengths of Labour's conference which was the last time I spoke to you guys I felt that whether it was Keir's speech and the degree to which you could tell when he talked about apprenticeships when he talked about racism in our society when he talked about the dignity of work you could tell these were things that he really cared about and hit close to home but we've got to sustain that beyond party conferences But you talk about authenticity as well.

21:10Wes Streeting:When I look at Keir Starmer's account on social media and I see the clips on Instagram or whatever it happens to be, it's produced. There's nothing that feels, oh, I'm really getting a real sense of the person and the passion and what drives. I'm getting a communication from number 10 Downing Street. Now, whatever the faults of Donald Trump, you think when you look at Truth Social, I'm getting the real guy. He's telling me what he thinks. And with Mamdani, I'm getting the real guy. I'm getting he's telling me what he thinks I'd absolutely take on the chin the challenge that on some of our social media channels there are too many images of government buildings and not enough images of of not just the prime minister but all of us out and about kind of talking to people um with people whether in like on public service front lines or talking to people in communities and and the what what I find personally irritating about that is when the prime minister is in those settings, even now as Prime Minister, I mean, still loads of this as Labour leader, but even now as Prime Minister, with all the status that brings, I see someone who is really comfortable around people, enjoys their company, and you can tell through the quality of those interactions really cares.

22:19Wes Streeting:And it's the responsibility of the government, the party, to take that and amplify it so that everyone else gets to see a window into what maybe I get to see more of because I serve in the Prime Minister's cabinet and I work closely with it.

22:33The News Agents Hosts:I don't think anyone doubts that Keir Starmer cares. I think that's really clear. And I want to get away from social media per se. But if you asked what he thought, if you asked what he felt, how can the same man that talked about the island of strangers then be the same man that stands up and says there is too much racism? But I don't think we get very much of that. We don't always understand. Like, does he fear Farage? You know, this comment that was told to me, Farage is right, don't vote for him. That sort of seems to go to the heart of quite often what Starmer says. You know, he's right about a lot of this stuff, but don't vote for him.

23:13Wes Streeting:Well, in some ways, the Island of Strangers challenge is the easiest one to answer because he's addressed it himself. One of those speeches was authentically clear. One wasn't. The one that was authentically clear was the Labour Party conference speech. And the authentic care is a strong and committed anti-racist. Islands of Strangers, I mean, he set out the context for what went wrong with that speech. I was there sat in the front row thinking, well, firstly, I didn't like the language. I knew what was intended or I assumed what was intended. And I knew how it'd be heard by people I represent and people in my constituency.

23:49Wes Streeting:Did you talk to him afterwards about it?

23:50The News Agents Hosts:Did you say what the fuck was that?

23:51Wes Streeting:I didn't use that language but I did say to him when he'd given his interviews that you know this this makes a lot of sense to me because this is the this is the care I know and I'm proud to work for and I think that you know when it comes to the climate in our country at the moment this is why you know today I was talking to the Guardian with the chief exec of the NHS the one of the reasons why I've been so outspoken on this issue is because it is extremely close to home and I have been shocked by conversations I've had with people I represent in Parliament not just about their fear of racism but their actual experience of it in recent weeks the kind of 70s 80s style racism well that was my constituents after I did Laura Koonsberg and and called out Sarah Pochin and Reform UK's abject failure on this issue I have been inundated with people who work in health and social care saying you know this is what's happening with us this is the way our patients are behaving this is how I'm being made to feel at work and I've got a responsibility as the leader of that system to challenge it and to give my full-throated backing to NHS staff who say you've got the right to access the NHS but that's not a right to abuse us if you don't want us to treat you you can go somewhere else and I've got my full support in taking that whereas why do you think it has come back because I'm struck by it as well and you know words I heard in a playground at school in the 1970s when I was at school, you just do not hear anymore, and yet it's coming back.

25:20Wes Streeting:What is the explanation of that? I think it's complicated. I do think that the sort of economic conditions that we've got, not just in this country, but across Europe, create the fertile ground for division. But it's like it's become permissible again to say unspeakable, horrible things. And that's what I think we... We all have a responsibility to take this on. we all have a responsibility not to be bystanders to it and that's not just about the response of the state and the policing of the law that is about what we see what we hear in our own lives and whether we've got the courage to to challenge it and and you know the economic conditions in this country are such that there is fertile ground for people who want to exploit problems rather than address them to say this isn't the fault of previous governments this isn't the fault of a broken economy this is the fault of those people over there who don't look like you or don't worship the same god as you and that is like this is this is a tale as old as time and we have we have we have seen this movie before and therefore we have to go after it rapidly and robustly to make sure we do not see the return of socially acceptable racism that leaves people in my community and others around the country questioning whether this is a safe place for them we're seeing that on so many fronts had one of my local rabbis come to see me last friday about you know and speaking for many of my jewish constituents who are questioning whether this one of the most diverse cities on earth is is a safe place for for jews to live when the you know my constituency has always been a home for Jewish people.

27:06Wes Streeting:So this is manifesting itself in all sorts of different ways. And our responsibility as a government and as leaders of the country is to bring people together in common cause and to attack problems at root cause and not allow the scapegoating of the other. And that's one of the things I think we take from the success in New York, which is, I believe this to the kind of core of my soul, hope is more powerful than hate.

27:33The News Agents Hosts:I want to go back to that question, not just Mamdani, but also Gavin Newsom have used not just hope, but, you know, I'm going to go to the other bit of the Obama phrase audacity. They've been quite audacious in what they're doing and what they're asking for. So in that spirit, Wes, I'm going to go back to your first thought, which is about authenticity. And if I said to you, Wes Streeting, do you think you would make a good prime minister? What would your authentic self say to that right now today?

28:01Wes Streeting:I sound very happy being health secretary thank you very much is that your authentic answer yep yeah because because you know to an extent as well you know and I sort of get a bit like fed up of this where um and you know it's never never kind of wise to attack the interview when you're on there when you're on their program but you kind of know where that kind of then that line of questioning goes and you always have a choice am I giving an answer that helps my own side and what we want to achieve or an answer that kind of rocks the boat and breeds instability and we frankly saw a bit too much of that in the run-up to late party conference primus has got bloody difficult job and he needs his team rowing in behind him not rocking the boat and i've always

28:44The News Agents Hosts:fight a bit harder is your answer we've all got we've all of us do like all of us have to do that

28:49Wes Streeting:and look we i was thinking about this the other days we've been in government you know not even a year and a half yet and you look at the challenges we're up against in the NHS in the criminal justice system in the economy and so on the sort of list is endless now sometimes I think we make the mistake of talking a bit too much about tough choices difficult choices I mean as if it's a burden rather than a privilege and something we asked the public to give us permission to do and honestly for all the challenges I've loved every minute of being in government and having the ability to change things for the better for our country.

29:26Wes Streeting:At the same time, though, we do have to kind of also remind people just the number of fronts we're fighting on at the moment, because it's not just about us as a government, it's about the whole country pulling in behind us and helping. Is one of the ways to deal with this, I sometimes feel listening to government communication, where you can see the cogs whirring, where we've got to triangulate between the threat posed to us by reform and the threat posed to us by green and we try and steer a neutral path and we just kind of get the messaging so that it's just on doesn't upset the you know the progressive side but it doesn't alienate those voters you know on the right maybe who voted for us at the last election and it just sounds so labored why don't you just tell if you're if you're stuck in neutral you're not going anywhere by definition and do you think there's been too much of that i think the danger for labor i actually thought lucy powell set this out um very convincingly in her deputy leadership pitch was to recognise that at the moment we've got challenges to both our left and to our right and what you can't do is sort of you know to continue the driving metaphor is just swerve around from one side of the road to the other or remain stuck in neutral.

30:35Wes Streeting:We have to set out our own stall based on our own values. I do think that we've got a lot in common with people to our progressive left in fact i'd argue throughout its history the labour party has been a progressive alliance of different um center-left democratic socialist traditions we've never been a revolutionary socialist party um people have tried over more than 100 years but we've always been a mainstream center-left party but with different left traditions and i think we're stronger for that and what we can't do in taking on reform is to try and out reform reform in the language we use or the policies we put forward.

31:15Wes Streeting:Now, that doesn't mean when you're taking on an issue like immigration, you've got to do it in a values-driven sense. And, you know, my centre-left values cause me no discomfort in saying levels of net migration in this country are too high. And I say that because I think, A, objectively they are. B, we're over-reliant on recruitment of health and care workers, for example, from many countries who are on the World Health Organization's red list because they've got such severe shortages. So I think it's immoral that we're poaching. That's how I approach that question and think, well, let's invest in the skills and the training of our own people.

31:56Wes Streeting:Let's make sure that we've got a health and care system that stands on its own feet rather than poaches from other countries. That's a very different centre-left authentic argument for reducing net migration compared with, you know, Katie Lamb, who, you know, people are writing up as a future of the Conservative Party. Well, God help us if she is, because cultural coherence was her argument. Now, that is an extremely different argument than the one I would use. It's almost Enoch Powell-esque in its kind of rhetoric. And why is she doing that? Not because I think the Conservative Party is now a kind of further to the right party than they've traditionally been, but just because I think she's looking at reform and trying to ape them.

32:36Wes Streeting:So, look, and that brings me back to the central point, really. Authenticity is the most important currency. We've got to remain authentic. We've got to do our politics as a Labour government in a values-driven way. And we've got to make sure that throughout the course of this Parliament and at the next general election, that we continue to fight as the insurgents, as the changemakers, as the challengers of a broken status quo. Look, you are expressing this with enormous articulacy and a good deal of charisma. You push back very hard on Emily's question about being a future prime minister, but you do sound a bit like a future prime minister.

33:12Wes Streeting:Does the comments like that annoy you, flatter you? I think at this stage, I find it annoying because the sort of speculation and the sort of, you know, politics is who's up, who's down, that kind of personality based politics. I don't think is kind of serious set against the challenges that we've got. But are you articulating this because no one else is? Being Prime Minister, or in fact, forget the Prime Minister bit for a minute. Being leader of the Labour Party is a bit like being the England manager. Everyone thinks they could do a better job. And it's an extremely difficult job. I think the Prime Minister has got the toughest job of all of us.

33:52Wes Streeting:I sit around the Cabinet table and think on any given day, who's got the toughest job? I mean, David Lammy, the Justice Secretary, has got the toughest job today, I would argue, with this prisoner release. But tomorrow it could be me. In fact, there's an equally serious story being covered on the front of the New Statesman today and by Channel 4 about the maternity scandal. Bridget Phillipson has an enormous challenge to deal with in terms of special educational needs and support for disabled children so right across the board we have these challenges and so the one thing I'm always mindful of is the Prime Minister and the Chancellor they carry all of those challenges on their shoulders because they have to worry about all of those things in Keir's case how am I leading my country and my government to deal with it in Rachel's case how are we going to make sure we pay for it and how are we going to make sure that we get growth back into the economy that creates happiness security and opportunity for everyone these are the things that are driving us it's not easy the choices we make aren't always going to be popular the important thing is that we make choices that you know down the line we will be able to look back on saying i'm proud of those choices they were values driven choices and they proved to be the right choices for the country we're streeting thank you very much indeed thank you

35:15The News Agents Hosts:the news agents we've talked predominantly about what zohram mandani has done to electrify the politics of new york city but as i said at the beginning there were plenty of other races going on across america last night and there have been some really interesting victories and and moves from the democrats and we talk about all those at length in much more granular detail on the News Agents USA. We look at Gavin Newsom in California. We look at what's happening in Virginia and New Jersey and ask bigger questions about how the Democrats are taking that fight to Trump. To misquote Mark Twain, reports of the Democratic Party's death are much exaggerated.

35:58Wes Streeting:We'll see you tomorrow. Bye bye. Bye.