Should the King tell Trump to P*ss Off?

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0:31This is a Global Player original podcast. You are starting to see this picture emerge, which is, I mean, not quite such a weak Europe, a Europe that's starting to know its mind on this. Trump having the biggest presidential paddy that you could imagine. He really is Captain Chaos right now. Whoever comes after Trump, and yeah, I mean, I'm sure there are people who still think it will be J.D. Vance and all the rest of it, but there is a world in which Whatever he's done has been so perfect for Europe. I think he knows in his bones, I think he's made a mistake.

1:11Hello, good afternoon. We begin with breaking news from Buckingham Palace. The King will go ahead with a state visit to the United States next month, despite the ongoing war in the Middle East. King Charles and Queen Camilla... The announcement came almost uncannily at the same moment as Donald Trump was lambasting the United Kingdom and telling it to show some courage in Iran. Trump slags us off. The king says he's going on a state visit. Is it time for us to tell Trump to piss off? Welcome to the News Agents.

1:47The News Agents. It's John. It's Maitlis. It's Lewis. and the statement from the palace is curious not just because it's announcing that the state visit is going ahead which we always thought would go ahead it's just that the press release starts on advice of his majesty's government as though maximum you in it yeah maximum distance don't think this was our idea you think i want to go to you know trump land on the 250th anniversary and be shaking hands and listening to Donald Trump slagging off Keir Starmer? No, it's Keir Starmer who's told me to go. That's what it sounds like. And maybe that's an unfair construction.

2:29Maybe all statements of a state visit start like that. But it just seemed notable. I think it's actually as well, the context of that is something that I've really noticed, not least interviewing sort of cabinet ministers on Sundays, is that they have all, because this has obviously been a live question for the last few weeks, every few weeks it's been, is it going ahead or not? And they've stuck to this formulation rigidly that, well, this is a matter for the palace. And at various points, you slightly lose it with them. No, it ain't a matter for the palace. You know, the king doesn't just decide to wake up in the morning and go, you know what?

2:58Do you know what I might do? What state visits might I do this year? Oh, I think, well, I think some of the Caribbean in the winter months. Yeah, exactly. So I'll just pop in. They didn't even want to do, as has been revealed recently, you know, they didn't even want to do the second state visit when Trump came last year. So was told to do so by the government with advice, as it was said, with a capital A. And clearly the same thing has happened here. Yeah, it is the way the whole thing starts with that on advice of his majesty. It's like the arrows are just pointing directly at Keir Starmer's head there.

3:26And you won't be surprised that Ed Davey, Lib Dem leader, has been first out of the traps to say the prime minister is showing a staggering lack of backbone by pushing ahead with this state visit while Donald Trump treats our country with contempt. The king, we should say, is making his first trip to the US as the monarch. And I was amazed to read this. And it is actually the first state visit by a British monarch to America for almost 20 years. Right. It's a long time that. So I guess you could argue, and I guess he will argue if he ever actually sat down and did a sort of accountability interview as king, that this is not about Trump and Starmer.

4:04This is about America and the UK. This is about the 250th anniversary. It's the, you know, it's the historic sort of connection. And that's why the state visit has to go ahead. And it can't come down to minor quibbles like whether Trump has just upended the entire world economy. But it is still perfect timing, as you said, because just as we were coming on air, Donald Trump took to Truth Social and he said, all of those countries that can't get jet fuel because of the Strait of Hormuz, like the United Kingdom, which refused to get involved in the decapitation of Iran. I have a suggestion for you.

4:41Number one, buy from the US. We have plenty. Number two, build up some delayed courage. Go to the street and just take it. He does pretty much the same thing for France. The country of France wouldn't let planes headed to Israel loaded up with military supplies fly over French territory. France has been very unhelpful. And guess how it ends in bloc capitals? We will remember. And something else he says in his kind of slagging off of Britain. You'll have to learn. You'll have to start learning how to fight for yourself. I mean, come on, you know, 457 British service men and women lost their lives in Afghanistan fighting when America invoked Article 5 of the NATO treaty.

5:23Didn't we just have that row? Didn't we just have that row like a month ago? Didn't he just row back a day later? So America will have Britain will have to start to learn to get some courage. Actually, what was courageous, you know, was the fact that Keir Starmer didn't do what the obvious thing was and say, yes, Mr. President, we're fighting alongside you for a war that many people think is illegal. And with the latest threats that Donald Trump has made about blowing up all the desalination plants in Iran, which would be absolutely bang on a war crime. I think let's be clear. This is Donald Trump having the biggest presidential paddy that you could imagine.

6:00Right. Which is that, you know, he knows, I think it's just something about the way he's been acting recently and the fact that he's just been lashing out even more than usual. I think he knows in his bones, I think he's made a mistake. I think he knows and he can see that he started this thing, as we said at the time and many others said, without an end game. He thought it would be over extremely quickly. And he's now looking down the barrel of Iran, being able credibly to say, a discussion we had about a week or so ago, that not only did they not lose this war, but they're going to come out of this war stronger.

6:34Why stronger? Because they've shown the world that they have their foot on the throat the economic throat of the West, that they will be able to do that again via the Straits of Hormuz, come what may, that they have made it clear to the other countries of the Gulf that they can basically destroy the economic model on which they've built their economic and political success over the last 20 years, which is we're a haven of stability and wealth. Well, no, you're not. Not with Iran on your doorstep. And we're probably looking at a situation where from now on, Iran is not only going to be able to have their foot on the throat of the West, economically speaking, via the strait, but also they're going to start making loads and loads of cash off the strait.

7:14They're already talking about basically making billions of dollars via a toll on the strait of Hormuz, not just during the war, but in perpetuity. That could be a good idea. I wonder where they got that one from. And Trump is left floundering around. He's left floundering around, wondering why he's not won, faced with basically a choice of declaring victory when everyone knows it's hollow or going in even further and seizing Harg Island and risking American soldiers and even more political capital. So what do you do when you've made a mistake? You have a go at your friends. You have a go at the people in particular who told you you were making a mistake at the very beginning.

7:49And I think that's what's happening. Well, they didn't tell him he was making a mistake because Donald Trump didn't consult on anything before launching this war. I mean, honestly, he really is Captain Chaos right now, that you've launched this war. You haven't achieved your objectives of one, overthrowing the regime. And two, you've got the Strait of Hormuz shut. Now, forget what it does to Britain and to France and to Germany, even though it is seismic. Donald Trump's allies in the region, in the Gulf region, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, UAE, Oman, Qatar, must be thinking, what the bloody hell? You've started this war against our advice.

8:29You're now going to declare victory with the Strait of Hormuz shut and you are just leaving behind an absolute shitshow of epic proportions. And what has anyone got out of this apart from you trying to claim a victory when it's so obvious that it's utterly pyrrhic? Yeah, and for all that we've been told in the last year of Europe's irrelevance and Europe's weakness and Europe's inability to defend itself. Right now, there are definitely signs of backbone emerging. The strongest country, I guess, in this regard has been Spain, Pedro Sanchez, who's just said, we don't want you anywhere near us. We are not in any shape or form part of this attack on Iran.

9:17I mean, he's a socialist. the Spanish socialists are the ones who held out most last year against increasing their defence spending as well. But he's kind of led the charge. They're wrong on that, though, I have to say. Well, the point is that they are in a place where they don't think that Russia is as great a threat to them as the border countries like Poland and Estonia. They think they should be spending more on immigration. Sure, but they are in NATO, so Trump wasn't wrong on this. I mean, this is a wider question of the sort of splits in NATO, which tends to take the sort of northern countries in one direction, which is Russia facing and the southern countries in another direction, which is sort of, you know, immigration facing and all the rest of it.

9:56But what I was going to say was that Sanchez on one side of the horseshoe seems to be joined in this kind of curious way that, you know, strange political bedfellows are being made by the AFD of Germany, the alternative for Germany, which, as you know, are sort of slightly Nazi adjacent, who've been great friends with Trump and with Musk and with Vance over the years, they have come out and called for the withdrawal of all US soldiers from the country. So the far right leader has told a meeting it was time to remove Allied troops and nuclear weapons from Germany in order to pursue an independent foreign policy.

10:34When you've got the AFD essentially sending a strong message to Trump on the one hand, and you've got the socialists of Spain sending the same message on the other hand, And you've got people who are much closer as allies within NATO, within Europe, like Giorgio Maloney of Italy saying, oh, I'm sorry, we've actually got to have parliamentary oversight before we can send planes, before we can do anything. They are now being much more guarded with the help they offer as well. You are starting to see this picture emerge, which is, yeah, I mean, not quite such a weak Europe, a Europe that's starting to know its mind on this.

11:09I mean, yeah, I think that's true. And what is certainly true is that America, one of the consequences of this war is that America is burning through, burning through the alliance structures that it has relied upon, whether Trump likes it or not, because he's got this vision that basically America is in a unipolar world where it can just basically do what it wants. That's not true. It's been not true for quite a long time now. It's burning up through its alliances in the Middle East. As John says, they're all going to probably reposition themselves when this war is over. They'll have no choice.

11:35Europe will be even more convinced than it was before that it can't rely on the United States. But then that said, it is a two-way street. And I do think that one of the consequences of this in terms of Europe, we've been talking about the Americans sort of moving away from us. I don't really see how anyone after this war can credibly still say that NATO is a going concern. Trump, one thing I could totally believe him on is that he will remember all of this. You know, he sees it, and we wouldn't see it this way, but I think it's very clear. He's still trying to sue people from the 1980s. He nurtures his grievances lovingly.

12:05Exactly right, right? So like, you know, he is going to, he sees it. And obviously, as I say, this isn't how we see it, but he will see it. And he's being very explicit about this, that we are saying, I, Europe, very loudly, this isn't our war, we're not getting involved. And he said, well, that's exactly what I said about Ukraine. And you said I couldn't say it. And that does have a sort of logic, in his own mind, at least. It is obviously, we know it's different. No, because he caused this one. I mean, it's not like... I know, that's what I was about to say. That's the point. That's what I'm saying.

12:32I know that logic's wrong, but in his own mind, that's how he sees it. And obviously it's wrong because Ukraine was not Ukraine's choice and this was America's choice. So we know that that logic is kind of imperfect. But that is how he's going to continue to see it, which means I do think Trump's going to be there for another three years. And if you are Vladimir Putin, who has done very well out of this war, both financially and politically, the thing I worry about is I'm going to think if you ever was a moment that you were interested in just pushing at NATO's eastern flank, particularly in the Baltic states and so on, it's going to be the next three years as a result of this war.

13:02and the fact that everyone can see that Europe and America are no longer as one. Well, look, if you look at kind of historically, European politicians love the American ones that speak European. And in the current administration, you've got J.D. Vance and you've got Donald Trump and you've got Pete Hegseth who speak pure redneck American. Marco Rubio is the one who you kind of look to, to being the most European sympathetic. And so when he came to the Munich Security Conference, people were thinking, well that's a voice that's a more he's almost a grown-up he's almost a grown-up listen to marco rubio yesterday on the question of nato and i've been a big supporter of nato and i've one of the reasons why i've been a supporter of nato is because i believe that these basing rights give us leverage and give us uh flexibility and operational capability all over the world but if nato is just about us defending europe of their attack but them denying us basing rights when we need them that's not a very good arrangement that's a hard one to stay engaged and say this is good for the United States.

14:01So all of them is going to have to be re-examined. America hasn't been attacked, though. I mean, that's the critical difference about all of this. America has not come under attack from Iran. America has chosen to attack Iran, perhaps on Netanyahu's say-so. Who knows? But this was America's choice. It didn't consult NATO allies beforehand. It didn't seek congressional authority beforehand. It didn't go to the United Nations beforehand. hand this was donald trump acting unilaterally and acting really miffed that we don't immediately come to his aid now that it's all going to shit and i think be reasonable i mean i do think the question of sort of the diverging alliances is going to be a big one because if you look at who is doing the power broking now in the world right that the people who are talking directly to the Iranian regime, the Japanese, right?

14:58The Japanese prime minister, new in the job. She's only been elected, what, a month. And she said, at the time that it is appropriate, I will meet with the Iranian leaders. We will try and find a way of kind of reopening the Hormuz Straits. They are 90 % dependent on Hormuz, on Iran, for their own oil supplies. I think that things are starting to shift. You know, the whole, what was that great line, the sort of the plates are shifting and we don't know where they're going to land yet. But I actually think that whoever comes after Trump, and yeah, I mean, I'm sure there are people who still think it will be J.D.

15:32Vance and all the rest of it, but there is a world in which whatever he's done has been so perfect for Europe. It has been so helpful to show the logical conclusion of where someone like him can take the world that actually you say, well, we've learned our lessons. We're not going to do that again, are we? We're not really going to sort of lie back and assume that just being nice to the guy who loves the gold statues and the gold ballrooms and the gold bars and all the rest of it is somehow going to solve the world's problems. We've got that now and we know what we've got to do. And we only trust America when there's somebody who looks like they actually know what they're talking about.

16:13The problem is, is that in the meantime, we're still reliant on the American security umbrella. This war is showing something, which is the UK armed forces are not what they were. You know, right now, the Royal Navy is basically almost incapable of fulfilling its new responsibilities in the Mediterranean, plus what it's supposed to be doing for NATO. Trump's not totally wrong about that. And you still don't get the sense there is new, quite significant military spending going on in the EU, in particular amongst EU countries, you know, rearmament and so on. But it's slow and it's probably not if we were serious about defending ourselves actually at the level at which it ought to be.

16:46And Trump's not also wrong about something else, which is that, I mean, he talks about jet fuel. That is going to be a problem. I mean, it's funny before he mentioned it today, you know, FT reporting that the last known shipment of jet fuel to the UK from the Middle East is expected to arrive this week. There are no other shipments of jet fuel due to arrive in the UK as far as anyone knows. I mean, this is only just about to hit. Two weeks. Yeah. With the time lag between all those tankers on the high seas that have left Iran. There is something really ironic, sorry, but there is something really ironic about saying, oh, Trump was right.

17:21He has exposed European defence spending weakness with his own war that he started. Right. I mean, that's the thing that you can't get past. There were ways that Europe could have understood about the deficits of its own defence spending without actually having to run to Trump's help because he has started a war that nobody was looking for. nobody needs. And when you listen to Marco Rubio, he now says one of the goals one of the goals of this war is reopening the Hormuz Straits. I'm sorry, the straits that closed because of the war that you started. I mean, we're on a different planet here. And Pete Hexith, the Defence slash War Secretary, has been speaking as we have been recording where it's become clear it's not only Trump who is in the mood to have a go at the British today.

18:09Listen to what he said about the Royal Navy. I think the president was clear this morning in his truth that there are countries around the world who ought be prepared to step up on this critical waterway as well. It's not just the United States Navy. Last time I checked, there was supposed to be a big, bad Royal Navy that could be prepared to do things like that as well. So he's pointing out this is an international waterway that we use less than most. In fact, dramatically less than most. So the world ought pay attention to be prepared to stand up. President Trump's been willing to do the heavy lifting on behalf of the free world to address this threat of Iran.

18:42It's not just our problem set going forward, even though we have done the lion's share of preparation to ensure that that strait will be will be open, which is an outcome the president's been very clear on. So you can see there an attack on the Royal Navy following what Trump has said. I mean, just as a point of information to the secretary, he said there are many more ships currently going through the Strait of Humus. This is obviously important, not just economically, but because, you know, this is what superpowers do. superpowers rule the waves that's where when we say Britannia rules the waves it was because that is what we did the Americans have done it since the second world war this superpower is not controlling the waves and they know it and it hurts straight of Hormuz latest traffic data 11 ships were going through in a 24 hour period ships by the way that almost certainly have paid Iran for the privilege of going through it who are not as they consider enemies in some recent days it's been as low as 6 ships a day normally you would have between 120 to 140 so not for the first time a straight out lie from the podium from the Defence Department.

19:39And I think while we're talking about the implacable integrity of Pete Hegseth, we should give a little hat tip to reporting in the FT overnight, which tells us that a broker for Hegseth attempted to make a big investment in major defence companies in the weeks leading up to that Iran strike. I know you're shot. Thank God you're sitting down. Hegseth broker at Morgan Stanley contacted BlackRock in February about making a multi-million dollar investment, the inquiry on behalf of the high-profile potential client was flagged internally at BlackRock. I mean, just add that in to all the things they do, particularly if you hire a weekend Fox News anchor to lead your defence department.

20:24So, against this context, let's go back to what you said at the top, Emily, about what the hell is the king doing going to the US next month. It's a pretty fraught mission, isn't it, for him, where he's going to be with Donald Trump, who Lewis, as you say, is raging and pissed off and throwing his toys out the pram because he's not getting his way and things aren't going to plan and everyone isn't being planned and sweet and he's very cross with the UK. I mean, he's going to be standing on a platform with the king standing next to him. what's he going to say about the special relationship and how much he admires the UK and how much he deeply admires Keir Starmer I don't think he's going to say any of that I mean the possibilities for embarrassment and cock-ups at the palace they must be absolutely thinking oh my god what are we doing I mean presumably they will keep the number of open mic moments to an absolute minimum which is easier to do with a royal visit than it is with a political visit But when the king is there in the Oval Office and Donald Trump has invited him, the bulls?

21:31I don't know. I bet they were. I mean, I imagine they'll keep it ceremonial as possible. Given it is there for the 250th anniversary, they'll keep it ceremonial as possible. Obviously, though, there's always going to be a possibility. It's Donald Trump. It's Donald Trump, of course it is. Look, it's going to be a lovely cultural visit where he goes to see the Kennedy Centre. Oh, no, that's been knocked down. And then he goes to see the East Wing. Oh, no, that's been knocked down. And then he goes and sees the, what is it now that's happening? the new Miami airport that's going to be named Trump, the new dollar bill.

21:58Well, what about the printing of the banknotes, which are now going to have a first time the living president on Syria? Well, to be fair, the king can't complain about that, can you? He does have his face on the banknotes, so he's like, yeah, that's a great idea. But I think in all seriousness... It's like a theme park, basically. America is now just the Trump theme park where you can go and touch things that are adjacent to or named after or in the shape of Trump. Look. Yeah, I mean, and ultimately as well. I mean, I just, a bit like we were saying in the show in Texas on Friday, I think there's something bigger going on here as well, which is that, yes, this is partly about the military.

22:29Yes, it's partly about Trump being pissed off. But honestly, like MAGA, MAGA was absolutely convinced. I have no doubt that sort of part of the thinking around certainly some of these people, they will have heard things that are being said by the online right in the UK, which is saying in the UK, which is saying that Starmer is opposing this because he's afraid of the Islamists. They'll believe that, you know, they'll believe that part of this is because Europe and Britain is sort of falling to Islamist forces and is giving in to sort of Islamist pressure not to attack Iran. So there are sort of military reasons and geopolitical reasons which are sort of pulling us apart.

23:01But there are political and cultural reasons which are pulling us apart as well, which is that MAGA is absolutely convinced and sort of the right of American politics is absolutely convinced in all sorts of ways. Britain has fallen and is falling away from Western civilisation. But there's also the MAGA that doesn't buy into what Trump's doing at all. And it's really interesting if you kind of look at the exchanges that are now happening around even the Fox News coverage. You've got, you know, Ann Coulter, not MAGA MAGA, but definitely kind of pro-Trump for many years, slagging off Fox News because she says the coverage of the Iran war is too positive.

23:38She's joined now by Taylor Greene, Marjorie Taylor Greene, who's saying absolutely wise Fox News pumping out this rubbish about the success of the Iran war. So, I mean, there are I don't know what MAGA stands for anymore. But this idea that maybe MAGA is just Trump or maybe there is a different MAGA or maybe there's a CPAP MAGA that's talking about sort of Islamism where Trump, you know, wasn't. But there's a lot of his base now or a lot of his voters, let's say, if not the base, who literally don't get it. They don't get this war anymore. We're going to hear speeches from the king and speeches from Donald Trump talking about the future of the special relationship.

24:21And I suspect that never will those words have sounded so utterly hollow and meaningless. Given what we're seeing right now, well, you know, insofar as there was ever a special relationship, and frankly, I've always kind of just hated the term because I think it's slightly meaningless. Insofar as there is anything that is special about the relationship, none of it feels very special right now. It all feels fraught. I bet he won't use that. I'm just looking at this. It says, Their Majesty's programme will celebrate the historic connections and the modern bilateral relationship. and I think there is something in that that they want to remind people that this goes back a long way and it goes wide.

25:00It is not about the guy in the centre of America right now. I think we've got to say that this is probably at this point now the lowest point in the idea of UK-US relations since Suez. I mean, I think it's got to be. I mean, you know, to have... I mean, yes, OK, Trump says things that other presidents don't but we're hearing, you know, from not just Trump but from, you know, we heard it from Hegseth there, Rubio, the rest of them. all sort of senior figures of this administration routinely now on an almost daily basis attacking not just allies, but specifically repeatedly singling out the UK. It's not just us.