Special Episode: Trump, ICE and cruelty on the streets of Minneapolis

19:00Lewis Goodall:A lot of Latino businesses are struggling right now because of the current situation, not wanting to leave their house, a lot of people not being able to work, not going to school right now, their kids, and I knew I needed to bring the people together that can come outside right now. So it's a little bit of a party, but also supporting these local businesses. So we have our DJ here. We have a lot of people in the community here ready to buy tacos, whatever it may be. How do you get people dancing at 1030 in the morning? Yes. Well, thankfully, we have a good lively crowd. But I think when people hear Latin music, I feel like that's very much like you got to move.

19:34And tell us about the temperature overall in this part of the city. Are ice agents in the market? Do you see people coming in? Because this is obviously a place that they would target.

19:43Lewis Goodall:Yeah, I mean, we definitely see a lot of ice agents. I live in Columbia Heights, which is a little bit outside of the city, but very close. And my neighborhood is a lot of Ecuadorian immigrants. And I'm in my neighborhood Facebook group. And I see all the time I see like people posting like, oh they're here, they're here. And it's like pictures and videos of them like arresting someone. And when you hear the president talk about his threat to bringing the insurrection act, what would that mean for this city? What would it mean for all of you? I think more chaos, more terror to our city. I feel like he's wanting to bring a war to Minnesota, a war on Minneapolis.

20:20Lewis Goodall:And my friends and I, like we don't feel safe coming out. Last night it was a friend's birthday and it was just at her house and we were like, okay, do you have your pepper spray? Do you have your whistle? Do you have everything? Do you have your passport? You take pepper spray and a whistle and a passport before you go to your friend's house. Yes, and I even have my whistle and my passport here because, yeah, it's scary. You don't know who they're going to stop. I mean, they stopped my uncle last week just walking on the street and they were like, let me see your identification. They stopped my friend's dad last week walking on the street.

20:47Lewis Goodall:Let me see your identification. So it's not like they're targeting criminals. They're just targeting people out on the street that look a certain way.

20:58We've heard about this makeshift security system they've got on the doors to check out ICE agents, to try and warn people if anyone is coming towards them. And they're, by all intents and purposes, stopping the agents from coming inside the building. But that doesn't explain what happens when people leave here, when people leave this building and its security and go back to neighborhoods, which they describe as places now of terror, with ICE agents circulating, demanding papers, demanding passports and sometimes seizing people. We'll be back in just a moment and we'll be explaining why Minnesota, Minneapolis in particular, is being so targeted by the Trump administration.

22:06www.lbs.org

22:17Lewis Goodall:I think it's worth dwelling a little bit more on the particular role of Minneapolis right now in American politics and in MAGA politics, because there are two things going on. One thing we should just say for a start is the extent to which the Trump administration is not just using ICE to wage war on this city. One thing that it's doing is using the full power of the federal government and the state to prosecute this war on the city that it seems to want to engage in. Even while we were here, Emily, we heard the news that the Department of Justice is launching subpoenas and investigations into the Democratic governor, Tim Walts, who, of course, was Kamala Harris's running mate, and the mayor of Minneapolis, basically on charges, which seem to basically be you are impeding ICE's work.

23:00Lewis Goodall:Well, they want to impede ICE's work because the whole point is that they don't think that ICE should be here in the numbers that they are and acting in the way that they are. But it's also the kind of wider MAGA family as well. Extraordinary to believe or incredible, really, that the Minneapolis charter school where Rennie Good, who, of course, was killed by ICE agents, sent her six-year-old son, has had to switch to online learning out of safety concerns because far-right MAGA people have been targeting the school and sending it threats. This is the woman who was killed by ICE agents and her son, who's just lost his mother, cannot now go to school because it has been closed down due to MAGA intimidation.

23:39Lewis Goodall:You can understand why so many people here do feel that this is a full-on assault, as I say, using the full mechanisms of the state, really, against this city. Yeah, I mean, as Tatiana, who you heard in the last piece in The Market told us, she believes Trump is trying to bring war, her words, to Minneapolis, trying to ferment something that looks like chaos. And we know that right now there are 1500 airborne Alaska troops on standby to come into Minneapolis if things get more tricky. Now, what is the distinction between things getting more tricky or things as they are? We don't know. But this is a threat from Trump to bring in people who are notably very good with dealing with cold situations.

24:24He's chosen the Alaska Airborne because they can withstand temperatures of minus 20 and putting them on the streets of Minneapolis, presumably as a kind of warning to Jacob Fry, the Minneapolis mayor, as a warning to Tim Walsh, the Minnesota governor, to say that Trump is in control, is in charge of this city and not them. And this all leads up to the place that we were at the end of last week, which is the threat to bring in the Insurrection Act, essentially to put federal troops on the street as if the city were in a state of emergency. To put this in context, the last time the Insurrection Act was used was in the mid-1990s with the L.A.

25:03riots and the death, the murder of Rodney King. This is not something that is used lightly. It is not something that should be used on Minneapolis right now. but they are looking at the level of protest and many of the protests are from the left are from people who want ice out of their city and as we saw on Saturday some of them can get quite hair raising we were present when Jake Lang who is a far-right agitator a provocateur he was pardoned for the January 6th insurrection he was there Jake Lang came into town and this is what he threatened

25:39Lewis Goodall:We'll be burning Korans standing up against the Somali invasion of Minneapolis, the immediate deportation of Ilhan Omar and the arrest of the scammer Tim Walls. Come join us 1pm here. and he was frankly chased out of town by a group of protesters and I would describe them because we were there right in the middle of the thick of it in the crowd on one side of the road there were calm peaceful Minnesota-based protests going on they held up placards they stood beside the barrier they chanted but they kept their distance and on the other side there was a much angrier crowd and it was much more frenzied and they looked like people who quite frankly wanted to do harm to jake lang they came very close to injuring him it was quite unnerving actually being in the middle of that crowd and as you say following the death of renee good feelings are running incredibly high people are very angry some of those in the second crowd were out of towners who had come presumably because they wanted to make their feelings felt anyway and they hounded him till he actually ran into his own hotel.

26:55It was a scene that was actually quite unnerving to be in the middle of because this was a scene that could have really got out of hand quite quickly and there were no police there until the very end where they turned up. I mean, policing, we have to say, is pretty light touch ever since you referenced the death of George Floyd. The police tend to stay out of these protests because they think they'll inflame the situations more by being there. And they turned up right at the very end, threatened to use tear gas on the protesters if they didn't clear the streets. And that was the point at which the crowds finally dispersed.

27:30But for about 15 minutes, we thought that it would be a tinderbox situation.

27:34Lewis Goodall:So much of how the federal government is being used and what is going on is dark. I think it doesn't get much darker in particular than the constant attacks, attacks, racist attacks on one particular community from the head of state, from the president. One of the reasons that MAGA and the president is so obsessed with Minneapolis is that it is the home pretty much to the country's biggest Somalian American community. It's still a very small community. You're probably talking, you know, you're talking about tens of thousands of people, small, but it's here in the Twin Cities. And these are a group of people that Trump has in explicit terms called garbage and said that, you know, know, they want to get rid of Somalian Americans in the city.

28:16Lewis Goodall:Bear in mind that so many of these people are American citizens. This has a slightly longer pedigree and it has become a big core celeb in MAGA circles, which is, we talked about it on the show before, there has been a really significant and really, you know, really bad fraud scandal, which involved Somalian Americans. About 90 or so Somalian Americans are going to prison. Basically, it goes back to a sort of food voucher program from the pandemic era, hundreds of millions of dollars, not this$18 billion that Donald Trump is alleging, but at least$300 million, possibly more. You know, some estimates say, you know, this could run into the billions of dollars and is unaccounted for.

28:54Lewis Goodall:And, you know, there could be other places in the US and it's affected as well. So, you know, we're talking serious money, really terrible fraud scandal, going back to that COVID era. Nonetheless, it is clearly outrageous to suggest that all Somalian Americans are somehow fraudsters or garbage as a result of this scandal. And I, you know, Emily, the thing I made for, we went to speak to some really young Somalian-American kids, all American citizens. They're all taking part in this community effort to kind of, you know, deliver food and so on and get that community engagement going. I felt for them so profoundly, right?

29:26Lewis Goodall:Because you basically had their president, as I said to them, their equivalent of our king, their head of state, the person who was supposed to bring a country together, basically attacking them as garbage and saying that he, the president, does not want them in their country. And what that does to a community and just does to an individual's mind and to an individual state of being is kind of quite hard to grapple with. Here's a bit of our exchange. Could you start by introducing yourself? Hi, everyone. My name is Kosar. I'm a part of the Cedar Riverside Protection Alliance, a part of the founding members of this group, whose really core purpose has been to create some level of normalcy for a community that's been under attack, both nationally and globally.

30:10Lewis Goodall:And so we're really in the space of really ensuring that there's emergency response, prevention and mitigation as we really feel the full weight of harm that is being inflicted upon this community and deep levels of surveillance. And so we want to make sure that folks are really joining us in this cause and really protecting this vulnerable population. So we are literally now on patrol. That's the phrase you're using, on patrol through Cedar Riverside. So just explain to people, what is the point of being on patrol? Why are you doing it? You're all wearing these high-vis jackets. We can see there's loads more people on virtually every street corner around here.

30:47Lewis Goodall:What's the point of it? Honestly, just making sure that no one abducts and kidnaps our community members. No one takes advantage especially from um you know a media standpoint and making sure that our community is protected as we're observing what is going on so i mean you you said it so casually there but you're on patrol to prevent people in your community being kidnapped or being taken away yes exactly it's like a deterrent it's supposed to be a deterrent effect exactly yes because they know they're being watched yes exactly and the and the more people are outside and the more people that are aware of them, the easier the neighborhood feels safe.

31:24Lewis Goodall:It's mad though, mate, isn't it? I mean, it's actually mad to sort of just be here, standing here and seeing, I mean, you are literally on every street corner. Yeah. And you're just, you're just waiting for some federal officers to appear out of a car. And you're just there to make sure that they're being watched. I mean, it feels like, I mean, it feels mad. It's like militarizing or sort of patrolling your own neighborhood. Yeah, I think it is mad that they're putting us in this position to be out here. but it is also we are making sure that they're aware that we're not intimidated at all and we're here to protect our people and when I say our people it's everyone the Native American community the Mexican Hispanic community Somali community we are all vital to this state when you hear the president of the United States say that Somalians are garbage yeah what does that do to you what do you think?

32:16Lewis Goodall:How do you feel? It makes me feel sad and it also makes me infuriated because me personally, I'm a veteran. I served this country and I'm Somali-American. You were in the army? Yeah, I was in the army. I was in the national guard for this state. So for someone to tell me that I'm garbage when I serve this country, it's like we know the agenda. It's not about Somalis. It's about him trying to push this narrative of white supremacy because this is not about who's american or not this is about a certain group of people that is trying to push a narrative towards somalis when we're all diversified we have people that are lawyers we have people attorneys we have people that are nurses we all are very vital to this community and for him to just single out and have this hasty generalization towards us shows you a lot about his education and how smart he is but he's your president i mean he's your head of state he's your president he's your equivalent of our king you know he's there he's supposed to represent the country i mean that is literally the motto of this country right out of many one he pleuribus unum and yet he's calling you garbage we as americans believe in and understand that we have a constitution states also have their own state rights and we still believe in we the people right we the people means everybody is vital to this nation in this nation building and so if that looks like we have to re-engineer this and effectively ensure that we strengthen this democracy together from the ground up, we're ready to do that.

33:43Lewis Goodall:And we're going to continue to do that. So regardless of Somalis being garbage, we're here. We're willing to stay. We're going to continue staying. And we're going to continue building this nation just like everyone else has historically, those who've been before us and the land that we're on, which is Native American-owned land, right? This is their land. This is Dakota land that we're standing on, Anishinaabe land in particular. and we honour that and we honour our brothers and sisters. Yes, this is a community that has been targeted and to put this in context, there are a lot of Somalis, Minneapolis, Minnesota has the largest, I think, Somali community in the country, around 100 ,000 Somali or Somali-speaking people live in Minneapolis and that's in a city of some 450 ,000.

34:29So it is big and it is ridiculous to assume that every single one of them has been involved in the fraud scandal. When you talk to officials about that scandal, they will tell you, quite frankly, it was bad. There is still up to$9 billion of money, taxpayer money, unaccounted for. But this is something that the courts are dealing with. There have been prosecutions. This has been going on since, I think, COVID, since 2020. In other words, it's not new. It's not something that has not been approached. They are dealing with it in the courts. And yet Trump has elided, as ever, so many things, a scandal and a sense of what America wants to see in terms of immigration and somehow made them the ground zero for his ICE approach now.

35:22And as I said, you will see people in this city who now feel that they are living in a place of terror. They are unable to actually go about their daily jobs because they are being taken off the streets. We'll be back in a moment and we'll be talking to John about what on earth is going on with Trump and Greenland.

35:54Lewis Goodall:The News Agents Well meanwhile things haven't exactly been quiet at home and once again all fingers point to Donald Trump this time it's his threats to several EU nations because he's told them he wants to take Greenland and will impose higher sanctions if they don't agree Keir Starmer called an emergency meeting, a press conference, first thing this morning. Here's a flavour of what he said. Alliances endure because they're built on respect and partnership, not pressure. That is why I said the use of tariffs against allies is completely wrong. It is not the right way to resolve differences within an alliance.

36:41Lewis Goodall:nor is it helpful to frame efforts to strengthen Greenland security as a justification for economic pressure. Well that was Keir Starmer at his emergency news conference this morning called in the wake of Donald Trump threatening tariffs against Britain the EU over the fact that we say no, you can't just annex Greenland and buy it if it's not for sale. And Keir Starmer has for the past year been at pains not to get into a confrontation with Donald Trump, to be amenable, to whisper to Donald Trump in a kind way. But such is the fury felt across Britain and Europe as a result of what Donald Trump posted at the weekend that he found himself saying that Donald Trump was on this completely wrong.

37:37Lewis Goodall:Now, what he didn't do was then to go on and say, I am going to, you know, we're going to impose tariffs. He didn't make any threats against America. He just said, this is the wrong way to do things. And I think we have to talk about the letter that has emerged this morning from Donald Trump via PBS, the American broadcaster, which shows that he had written to the Norwegian Prime Minister, essentially explaining the rationale for Denmark in the light of not having been given the Nobel Peace Prize. It's the kind of thing that sort of batshit commentators might have invented, except it's actually true.

38:19It's actually his own words. He has said, I stopped a lot of wars. Why didn't you give me the Nobel Peace Prize? I'm sick of peace. There will be mostly peace, but I'm getting a bit sick of peace. So let's try this now. And it does feel to me, Soaps, that we've kind of got a really old fashioned approach to diplomacy now. Because once you recognise where Trump is on this whole question, once you see the letter to the Norwegian PM that spells it out, why are we running around talking to former diplomats? Why are we running around talking to former foreign office mandarins we should be talking to psychotherapists you know we should be analyzing what is going on here because it seems to me very clear that this isn't really about Greenland full stop it's not really about security full stop it's probably not even about one thing like oil as it was in Venezuela it's about overreach and ego and narcissism.

39:20And if Greenland just goes, then where's next? If you were Mark Carney, you'd be switching off your cell phone now, right? You'd be really nervous to see what happens to Canada. So it kind of seems to me that the world leaders, EU leaders have to wise up and stop talking in terms of diplomacy now, because that's clearly not where we are anymore.

39:43Lewis Goodall:It's so funny you say Canada. I mean, I was with some Canadians the other day, and they were talking about a military exercise that had been carried out where they would sit together in a room and work out how they could defend Canada if Donald Trump sought to invade. And the conclusion that the generals reached in 10 seconds was they just can't. There is just no way. And so absolutely to your point, if Greenland goes, Canada next. And what happens if he decides, well, strategically, I quite like the look of Great Britain because of its position in relation to Europe. I mean, where does this end?

40:17Lewis Goodall:you talk about the letter to the Norwegian Prime Minister I think it is so special it is worth reading the whole thing out just because honestly sometimes you know people think oh Maitlis and so you're getting carried away let me just read it dear Jonas considering your country decided not to give me the Nobel Peace Prize for having stopped eight wars plus I no longer feel an obligation to think purely of peace although it will always be predominant but can now think about what is good and proper for the United States of America. Denmark cannot protect that land from Russia or China, and why do they have a right of ownership anyway?

40:55Lewis Goodall:There are no written documents. It's only that a boat landed there hundreds of years ago. But we had boats landing there also. I've done more for NATO than any other person since its founding, and now NATO should do something for the United States. The world is not secure unless we have complete and total control of Greenland. Thank you, President DJT. How do you frame, as you say, Emily, a rational response to something that is totally irrational? And, you know, to which some people have said on social media, well, the 25th Amendment, you declare that Donald Trump does have psychological problems, as you intimated, and you act accordingly.

41:38Lewis Goodall:But the European leaders don't quite know what to do. And even if they knew what to do, could they agree among themselves? What is the best approach? Keir Starmer pointedly didn't threaten tariffs. It looks like Emmanuel Macron would like to go further. There has to be somehow a united response. Meanwhile, Donald Trump flies to Davos tomorrow and sort of, you know, we're thinking that Keir Starmer might just change all his plans and go to Davos as well so that he can have a face to face. with Donald Trump over this? Well, that looks strong, doesn't it? I mean, the one country that has been really outspoken is, ironically, China, who said this morning, we follow a rules-based order.

42:19We follow the rule of law. And what they were essentially saying was, don't put this on us, Donald J. Trump. Don't make out that this is about a threat coming from us. It's not. China's not speaking about Greenland, and Russia, as far as we know, are not currently speaking about Greenland. And I think China at the moment is looking like, I mean, this sounds weird, but it's playing the grown-up in the room. It's saying we can't trust America anymore. Please don't start making us look like the baddies. We haven't done anything here. And that is such a kind of a mindfuck, to be honest, that you have to start rethinking strategic alliances in this way, where European leaders are now agreeing with China that the rules-based order is the one they want to follow, their great ally, the one they went to war with and for in Iraq and Afghanistan, particularly, of course, the Danes, who lost a significant number of troops in both those wars, they're now thinking that America is their enemy.

43:24And Greenlanders, I mean, naturally, and the people of Denmark, love America. They've been very pro-America of all the kind of European countries. there is a lot of warmth for America or has been previously. But now you've seen the signs that they're holding up. Instead of make America great again, their MAGA means make America go away. It's a very direct message to Trump. They don't want him meddling. They don't want him as part of their future.

43:53Lewis Goodall:Look, over the past year, we have charted on this podcast the threats to the rules-based order, The question of whether America is a reliable ally to Europe and the West, whether the new national security strategy just shows that Donald Trump is only interest in the Western Hemisphere, which does not include Europe. Greenland is broadly North Atlantic rather than European. Therefore, Greenland fits into his schema. Venezuela fits into his schema. Europe doesn't. I suppose the one thing that could come to the rescue of Europe would be the Supreme Court tomorrow. apparently about to rule on Trump's tariffs policy, whether it was lawful for him to use emergency powers to introduce tariffs.

44:37Lewis Goodall:If they are struck down, then the threat of tariffs goes away. But not the threat to the rules based order. Donald Trump, by his actions, by his threats, by these warnings of tariffs of 10 percent at the beginning of February, 25 percent by the beginning of June, on top of the tariffs we're already paying for not supporting him over Greenland, shows that Donald Trump has ripped up the rules-based order himself. And you were talking about the diplomats, the ex-diplomats. And I heard one of them on the radio who kind of quoted Teddy Roosevelt, which must have felt like a clever thing to say, which was, you know, Europe needs to be, you know, follow the Teddy Roosevelt maxim of speak quietly but carry a big stick.

45:19Lewis Goodall:We don't have a big stick. What is the big stick with which we beat America over the head with when Donald Trump is acting like a bully and has got enormous military power behind him and economic power as well. And so, you know, I don't I don't know quite what it is that you do that would that will make Donald Trump change course. The other thing I think is that this is a real moment for Congress. You know, you would expect Republicans in his own party to be standing up at this point and wanting to be counted. There are many Republicans who are staunch believers in NATO, who are staunch believers in, as you say, the world order and who would not like fundamentally to see any kind of invasion, military or economic, of Greenland and of sort of EU territory.

46:10And yet I was listening to Mike Pence yesterday. This is the former vice president, the man who was nearly hanged by insurgent rioters who were rioting for Donald Trump on January the 6th of 2021. and Mike Pence has been a staunch believer of NATO and of international governance and yet he sat there on the morning show saying well I think owning Greenland would be the right outcome but we just have to be careful how we do it and I couldn't really believe what I was hearing because if he's not willing to stand up he's somebody who stood against Trump in the primaries who wanted to be president, don't forget, if he's still cowed, if he's not able to voice what he thinks, if there are others in the party, and I think Scott Besant, his Treasury Secretary, is amongst them who say, well, it would be good for America.

47:05We've got to start thinking what's good for America now. If they are all starting to fall in line, then who's left? Where are the guardrails? Where are the people that are willing to talk directly to Donald Trump's face and say, mate, this is not where you want to go. This is not good. And I think for all those people who sort of say, oh, gosh, you know, when he talked about America first and why is he getting involved in interventionist sort of foreign wars and foreign spats? we are now having to reinterpret that whole phrase that's so synonymous with Donald Trump that make America great again didn't mean improve people's lives or give people health care or bring down the costs of groceries or bring down the costs of fuels.

47:50It meant great in terms of land mass. If that's actually what he's talking about, then I think everyone in the world has to be pretty scared of where this ends.

47:59Lewis Goodall:I completely agree with you. I think this is much more than just a mild kind of infatuation for Greenland. I think it has become obsession. It's not in the national security strategy. There's nothing about it there. So it's become Donald Trump's hobby horse. Apparently, his original idea of getting Greenland came from Philip Lauda, as in Estee Lauda, who had some mineral interests in Greenland and thought, wouldn't it be a whizzo whiz if America could own Greenland? He whispers that to Donald Trump, billionaire to billionaire, mano a mano. And Donald Trump is suddenly running with this idea. And now that Europe put a handful of troops onto Greenland to explore safety or whatever, or building up NATO forces, Donald Trump was really pissed off by that, thought that was a provocation.

48:46Lewis Goodall:And Donald Trump does what Donald Trump does, which is to double down on what we're going to do. I mean, you talk about the cowed nature of American politics. It's worth just thinking how rare it is that we get total unanimity in British politics. But the threat to Greenland has done that. Have a listen to Nigel Farage this morning. Whether Trump's bluffing or not is always difficult to tell. But to use economic threats against the country that's been considered to be your closest ally for over 100 years is not the kind of thing we would expect. It's wrong. It's bad. It would be very, very hurtful to us.

49:25Lewis Goodall:Now, I think we're in a position where we can negotiate. We're not tied. We're not tied by European Union trade rules. That does give us an advantage in these negotiations. But I would just say this. I'm all for Trump taking out enemies of the West. Maduro, the Iranian regime. But if he falls out with his own allies and leaves America isolated, that would be a very bad place to be. So I'm worried about it. I'm concerned about it. I've always been a supporter of the president since way before he got elected first time. But I will be having some words with the American administration in Davos on Wednesday on this issue.

50:02Lewis Goodall:It's wrong. I'll be having some words. I'm sure they are quaking, quaking in their boots about what Nigel Farage might say to them. I love the way all the populists are now going to the home of the uber global elite. And all these conversations are going to take place around the ski slopes of Davos. I mean, one other thing, I think you've talked about the outbreak of unity in the UK. But what he's done again, Trump, this is, with I'm sure a little bit of foresight is try and divide and conquer. So the countries that he's threatened to impose higher tariffs on is not the whole of the EU. I think it's seven or eight countries.

50:39I mean, Britain included outside the EU. And I guess the idea here is that there are lots of countries in the EU that will say, well, actually, we don't want to go along with that, you know. So every time the EU tries to do something, it's not a question of sort of, you know, coming out onto your balcony and declaring. As we know, the EU works at a snail's pace. The EU has to have meetings and memoranda and more meetings and sign-offs and extra meetings. And I think by dividing the countries of the EU on this one, He's actually sort of created even more chaos inside that body because there's going to be some countries, I imagine, that will pull in a totally different direction to France, to Germany, to Finland, to the ones that are being targeted now.

51:28Lewis Goodall:So I heard a very senior correspondent on the television last night who said a mark of the urgency with which the EU is treating this is it's going to have a meeting on Thursday. Oh, wow. That's not Sunday. You just thought exactly to your point, though, that the European Union is this sort of slow moving, slightly cumbersome beast that, you know, trouble of getting unity. Donald Trump is a one man band. He is this. He is the pursuer of the Greenland idea. Everyone is terrified of him. So everyone is falling in behind exactly as you describe the European Union. Ursula von der Leyen has to worry about the European Parliament.

52:12Lewis Goodall:She has to worry about the nation states. Then they've got to get a resolution. Do they put it off tariffs? What sort of tariffs? It is becomes impossible to move. and this is the problem that Europe finds itself in where it knows it has to meet the challenge of a world that has changed where you cannot rely on the United States of America and is just so ill-equipped it seems to do that. And for all Nigel Farage talking about oh well we're much better off being outside the European Union hang on. Us leaving the European Union was based on two bets. One was that we would have, we would benefit from the transatlantic relationship with the US.

52:53Lewis Goodall:Oh, well, that's not going so well. And the second was that we were in an age of free trade around the world. No, we're not. We are seeing growing protectionism with Britain isolated. And that is why Keir Starmer has to tread so bloody carefully right now, because we don't have a big stick to wave around. Yeah, in a line. What should Keir Starmer do now? frankly put his fingers in his ears and buy Trump a new puppy. He just needs a diversion. Well we'll be back tomorrow and Maitlis what have you got tomorrow from the US from Minneapolis? Yeah we filled something really chilling yesterday which was a live deportation flight taking off with detainees in shackles who had been picked up on the streets by ICE.

53:37We'll be bringing you that in full on the pod tomorrow. See you then.

53:40Lewis Goodall:Bye bye. Bye for now. This has been a Global Player original production.