In short
Protests in Albania against a proposed Trump-linked luxury resort/hotel on Sazan/Cezanne Island and nearby protected areas, framed as a threat to environmental protection, democratic accountability, and EU accession; includes allegations of corruption, disputed land rights, and geopolitical/conspiracy narratives.
Guests/backgrounds
Olsi Nika, NGO Eco Albania representative (nature conservation; says Vyosa River delta is among Europe’s last pristine wilderness areas). Other voices are protesters/organizers in Tirana and on/near the coast, including a tour guide-turned-protest leader (Arben Kola).
Key claims
2024 law amended to allow “strategic investments” in protected areas; heavy-handed private security escalated local protests into a national movement (“Flamingo Revolution”); land ownership/lease disputes and a Miami-based businessman tied to the deal face corruption/drug-trafficking allegations; PM Edi Rama accuses foreign manipulation (including Iran).
Notable examples
Flamingos as protest symbol; chants for Rama and others to be jailed; alleged “Gaza Riviera”/Palestinian resettlement conspiracy; Vyosa River delta ecosystems and Category 5 protected landscape; Tirana marches with reported participation up to ~250,000 people.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOOrigins of the Protests Against Trump
1:52 to 2:56
Learn about the events that sparked protests against the Trump project in Albania.
“The protest started from the Trump project in the Sazan Island from one guy that got dragged across the mud on his own land, by the way.”
The Trump Family's Investment Plans
2:56 to 6:34
Understand the Trump family’s plans for a luxury resort in Albania.
“One day it's going to be a Netflix series.”
Environmental Concerns and Local Protests
6:34 to 7:57
Explore the environmental issues related to the proposed development.
“This is exactly the sort of development the Albanian government wants.”
Legal and Corruption Issues Surrounding the Deal
7:57 to 10:30
Delve into the legal complications and corruption allegations tied to the land deal.
“which is protected landscape, it's the only protected area in Albania where all the other categories are represented.”
The Response of the Albanian Government and Public Sentiment
10:30 to 14:00
Examine the government's reaction to protests and the public's feelings about the situation.
“So it's a tale of drug trafficking, gangsters or alleged gangsters.”
Protests Against Government Corruption
14:00 to 23:12
Learn about the protests in Albania and their connection to corruption and foreign investments.
“which is for them and not for what they consider to be the us.”
Exploring Suzanne Island's History
23:53 to 28:00
Delve into the history of Suzanne Island and its significance in current protests.
“This is the island which is at the centre of all these days after day after day after day of protest.”
Protests and Political Tension in Albania
28:00 to 37:34
Learn about the current protests in Albania and the political dissatisfaction driving them.
“of centralization of state power, the authority concentrated in the hands of the executive, the kind of state capture, and the really reckless decision-making made by leaders of the country.”
The Challenge of Institutional Integrity
37:53 to 41:44
Explore the historical impact of individualism versus institutions in Albanian politics.
“There's a temptation when you come to Albania to see everything through the personalities.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00Bite into a stacked sandwich made with Hero Bread. And the only thing you'll think is delicious. You won't think it has up to 19 grams protein, 11 to 32 grams of fiber, or just 0 to 5 grams net carbs. But it does. Hero Bread. No compromises. Just loaves, buns, tortillas, bagels, and noodles packed with flavor. Right now, get 10 % off at Hero.co with code IHEART. That's H-E-R-O dot C-O, code IHEART. All figures per serving of Hero Bread. See Nutrition Facts on Hero.co. This is a global production. This moment is about the history. Hands off our land. Our land is not for sale. We are fed up. It's been like this for 35 years.
0:43Fuck you! Go out from here! A revolution, my friend. It's a revolution. In our national anthem, we have no mercy for traitors. There has been so much speculation as to where the resistance would come from. Would it be the great American cities, Los Angeles, New York, Chicago, Atlanta? Would it be European cities who loathe what they perceive as Trump's imperialism against NATO in London or in Paris or Rome or Berlin? In fact, after two years of Donald Trump too, it turns out that the most concerted, the most consistent, the most persistent resistance that we see is on the streets of little Tirana, of little Albania, now in its 76th day.
1:40How did it come to be that it would be this city, this country, which would turn out against not just Donald Trump, but his family? Welcome to the News Agents.
1:58The News Agents. The protest started from the Trump project in the Sazan Island from one guy that got dragged across the mud on his own land, by the way. If that action was the lighting match, the gunpowder, the dry gunpowder, was already on the ground. Transportation is not good, the education is not good. So people are here to demand more transparency, more accountability from these government officials to say, hey, we don't like this and we want you to do better. I'm here protesting against the project that Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner want to make in Albania. Why do you feel so passionate about it?
2:40Why is it so important? Because it's been like this for 35 years. They have impoverished Albania, so we are fed up. We want them to take responsibility and change and just work for Albania and for Albanians. So in 2024, the law on protective areas has been amended to allow strategic investments to be built on these protected areas. This is history. You don't want to miss it? Yeah, I don't want to miss it. I'm part of the history. One day it's going to be a Netflix series. If Rama government goes down, we're going to be a Netflix series. Who's going to play you on Netflix? I don't know. I'll play it myself.
3:22And what would your message be to the Trump family right now? to Ivanka Trump and to Jared Kushner. Hands off our land. Our land is not for sale. Hands off Albania. Albania is not for sale. Do not come here. This is our country. We'll protect our country with every, every, every step of all Albania. What would your message be to Ivanka Trump and the Trumps tonight? Eddie Rama, Donald Trump, fuck you. Go out from here.
4:17To understand what's happening in Albania right now, Why hundreds of thousands of people have been taking to the streets of this small Balkan country. You need to go back a little bit. Funnily enough, to the 2021 summer holiday of Ivanka Trump and her billionaire investor husband, Jared Kushner. We were on a friend's boat and we stopped for a swim. Effectively, that's how we found it. We swam to the islands. We went on a hike, barefoot all the way up to the top. And we were just captivated. and it stayed with us ever since. And over the course of many years, we developed the opportunity to help realise its potential and transform it, but with a lot of restraint and care because the land is so beautiful that really the architecture has to be fully integrated into it, almost rise from it.
5:12The island in question that she's talking about is Cezanne, Albania's largest island, almost entirely undeveloped. We'll go back there in a second. But you might think it would be difficult to get a project going so quickly on something that she seemed to think was so remote. Well, perhaps not if you happen to be on holiday with the prime minister of the country in question. I was on a vacation after we left government in the summer of 2021. We were on our friend Nat Rothschild's boat. We got picked up in Montenegro and then we started sailing over to Corfu. And we spent a couple of days in Albania.
5:48One of the nights there, Prime Minister Rama came to the boat. I had not met him when I was in government, but I was very, very impressed with his vision for what he wanted to do with Albania. I really didn't know anything about the country. I didn't understand the history and the darkness of the history with the communism and the terrible leadership actually led to it being fully undeveloped as a nation. But Eddie came in. He has one of the cool things I was attracted to is the fact that he seemed like a very skilled politician, a very strong and smart leader, but also the fact that he was an artist.
6:21So that's the presentation of what Jared and Ivanka did on their holidays. In sum, they developed the idea of a four billion euro luxury resort investment along Suzanne and that particular stretch of the Albanian coast. This is exactly the sort of development the Albanian government wants. High-end, luxury, dollars, euros, sterling, foreign currencies flowing into a country which remains, by European standards, quite desperately poor. But there's a problem. It turns out the land-proposed full development by the Trump family is nothing short of an environmental marvel. Flamingos, lagoons, rare marine species, perhaps Europe's cleanest, most natural river.
7:05The area has it all. And the Trumps want to stick a great whacking hotel on it. My name is Olsi Nika. I'm representing the NGO Eco Albania, which is an NGO dealing with the nature conservation in Albania for more than a decade now. You know, Vyosa itself, it's one of the rare ecosystems in the entire Europe. That's why it is also thought to be the... Not thought, but even scientists have claimed that to be the last pristine free-flowing river in the entire European continent. And so it's also its delta, the area at the very end, let's say, of the river. So assessments that we have conducted years ago showed that the delta of the Vyosa River is one of the last remaining wilderness part in the entire Mediterranean basin.
7:53So this makes it, of course, important. But the area, no matter that these 16 ,000 hectares are proclaimed as a protected area under Category 5, which is protected landscape, it's the only protected area in Albania where all the other categories are represented. Local protests began in the area earlier this summer after building work started. A heavy-handed response from private security there ratcheted the issue into a national cause. The Flamingo even became the motif of the protests, now nicknamed the Flamingo Revolution, all flowing from yet another Trump hotel, even winning the praise of perhaps the world's most famous Albanian since King Zog, Dua Lipa.
8:39I'm sure that a lot of people listening will have heard about all the protests that are happening right now. And I have to say, I find it so inspiring to see how much people really care. You know, day after day, they're like hitting the streets because the government has opened up this part of a beautiful nature reserve to a high end beachfront development. But were it not for another ingredient, this pink feathered protest might have stayed as just that, something fringe. But they've come to speak for a particular Albanian or even post-communist anxiety. Because this land was so regulated, so controlled, so unavailable for development, right up to the point that it mysteriously wasn't.
9:24Well, there's a whole dispute about who actually has rights to this land, lawful title to this land, or at least part of it. the property where Jared and Ivanka want to build this resort, part of it is on this island, which is government-owned, so they need a lease. Part of it is privately owned, but there's a disagreement about who actually owns it. And there's this Miami-based businessman from whom they bought it, but there are villagers in this region who say they actually have lawful title. This is complicated because land was requisitioned by the communist government. When it was returned, there were disputes about who actually owned it.
10:07And so there's a process and investigation into this. But even more broadly, there's a deeper anti-corruption probe into this Miami-based businessman and kind of lurid accusations about drug trafficking, the import of cocaine into European ports allegedly used to finance a kind of real estate empire. So it's a tale of drug trafficking, gangsters or alleged gangsters. And this is just under the surface of this real estate deal. In what way is it under the surface? Well, because the businessman who is right at the heart of this deal, from whom the consortium that Jared and Ivanka are part of, is facing these allegations.
10:57So, you know, not only questions about whether he has lawful title to the land, but whether his broader set of real estate dealings have been funded by drug trafficking. So these protests and the kind of public inquiry that they've brought attention to has unearthed a kind of larger, you know, perhaps criminal inquiry or inquiry into potentially criminal activities. The daughter of an American president with Gulf money and investors has lit a touch paper under Albanian democracy. And the intensity has grown... ..and grown... ..and grown. Eddie Rama, the prime minister, has even accused the protesters of being manipulated by foreign governments, including Iran.
11:50I must say very simply, Albania is in a hybrid war. We are being assaulted. By who? Different forces. And at other moments, dismissing the protesters in the crudest of terms. This is an ideological bull****. And that's led to a country with almost no modern history of mass protest or civil disobedience to take to the streets for nearly three months. On one protest, it's said that 250 ,000 Albanians were involved. That's about 10 % of the entire population. Think about 7 million on the streets of the UK as an equivalent. So we are walking down, marching down the boulevard of fallen heroes, which is the main thoroughfare, the kind of main avenue in central Tirana.
12:48It is flanked on either side by communist era buildings. We're just very close to the villa of Ember Hosha, who is, of course, the communist era dictator here. And I am surrounded right now by hundreds, thousands indeed of people draped in the Albanian flag and also carrying a loft, weirdly enough, And if you didn't understand this, you would have no idea how on earth this had come to happen. But holding aloft endless numbers of pink flamingos, all crying out to the Albanian Prime Minister, Eddie Rama, inviting him to come down and meet him. And why would they be doing that? And why would they be doing that for the 75th, the 76th, the 77th night without fail?
13:40after all of those protests in all those American cities and all those European cities against Trump just kind of like petered out. They're doing it because they feel that their country, that their coastline is being bought up, not just by Trump, but by international oligarchy, aided and abetted by a political system, which is for them and not for what they consider to be the us. How important do you think the Trump family connection is to all this? Well, they are important, aren't they? So anything that is related to their name is huge news, big news. It is big because things have been happening behind our backs.
14:24Laws have been changing to accommodate the rich, the rich being the Trump family. And when you say laws have been changing, what do you mean? In 2024, the law on protective areas has been amended to allow strategic investments to be built on these protected areas. Why are you here today? I'm here to protest against the government, against corruption. And we are here because our Prime Minister has done many negatives against our people. And what would your message be if Ivanka Trump was watching tonight? Or Jared Kushner? What would your message be to them? To respect the people of Albania. They have to respect our people.
15:03Ivanka Trump must be dealing with her father first. So we're just approaching now the Albanian House of Parliament, it's on our left here. And they're all chanting, the main chant all through this thoroughfare has been that Eli Rama, the current Prime Minister, should be in prison, sent to prison, and his predecessor as Prime Minister and his deputy should all be sent to prison as well. You know, we've been told while we've been here that there is interest in a revolution. And honestly, when you're listening to them, it doesn't feel so far away. And one of the reasons for that is deeply 2026, because it isn't all just sunny, pro-democracy, pro-environmental causes at these protests.
15:47So many paths of contemporary politics seem to meet right now on the streets of Tirana. Trump, geopolitics, conspiracy, fevered online life and suspicion. One of the other things that struck me, and it surprised me, and you wrote a little bit about it, but was Israel's presence in all of this? I mean, this is a story which seems to sort of almost intersect with so many kind of contemporary stories and contemporary trends at the moment. But, you know, people talk quite entirely involuntarily about Israel being behind this and maybe settlers, Israeli settlers being behind this. What is the role of Israel, at least in the imagination of some of these people?
16:28Why is that important? Yeah, the protests have become kind of a lightning rod for every social cause, protest movement, conspiracy theory. And so there's kind of different layers to this. One is that there's all sorts of allegations. There's widespread opposition to this project, but there's all sorts of kind of crazy allegations about what's actually going on here, including notions that this is like another Epstein Island, reference to the sex offenders hideouts in the U.S. Virgin Islands. There are concerns or complaints that because of Jared Kushner's involvement and also his role in the Israel-Gaza dealings and proposals or support for proposals for a kind of Gaza Riviera, that this is somehow attached to that and going to be used to resettle Palestinians.
17:19And then there's a historical dimension to this and also a way in which the government is leveraging some of that history because of Albania's close ties to Israel and also its hosting of the Iranian dissident group, the MEK, since I believe 2013 or around then. And so the prime minister has accused Iran of instigating these protests and waging a kind of hybrid warfare as a result of the government's support and close ties to the Israeli government. So the protests and the claims and counterclaims really have it all in terms of the whole universe of conspiracy theories, hot button geopolitical issues.
18:05There's something for everyone. And I think that this is both a cause for some kind of fascination and interest and appreciation by the locals who have participated in the protest because it's heightened public awareness. And I also think that there is some concern that it has distracted from the real issues at stake, which involve public accountability, corruption, transparency and the economic sustainability of their country. It feels like a reckoning which isn't so unusual in many of the post-communist states of the Balkans and Eastern Europe. A generation who don't remember those old regimes, promised something better, which in so many cases, despite economic growth, hasn't materialised.
18:52Even political elites like this former foreign minister who worked for Rama, Ditmir Bouchati, can feel it and sense the danger. I think they have been at the very epicenter of the public debate and public attention, because it's for the first time since the fall of communism that we have seen such massive and intense protests in the streets of Tirana. but we have seen at the same time also a mobilisation of our own diaspora. One third of Albanians are living outside Albania, mostly in the Western capitals where they have organised also rallies in support to the causes that have been defended and promoted by protesters here in Tirana.
19:43On the face of it, looking at this issue, you might think, well, this is quite a minor thing about a nature reserve on a particular island. Why has it lit the touch paper of... Because it has to do also with the predatory capitalism that we have been living for the past 30, 35 years, where the public goods and the public space has been squeezed more and more. and the public goods and public space have been somehow privatized by a handful of people. So there has been this growing frustration in terms of inequalities, in terms of lack of opportunities. and people were feeling that the so-called development that we have witnessed in the recent years was at the expense of their own political and economic freedoms.
20:51So it's much more than the protection of nature. It has to do with the way how public life is being conducted in this country and it has to do with the way how economic opportunities are unevenly distributed in the societies. But the way how I see the protests is a call for reconciliation between the protection of environment, nature, and the development. So for reconciliation between public goods and private goods. And this, I hope, will be a defining moment for Albania to go gradually through a different kind of capitalism, from a predatory one that we have experienced during the last 30, 35 years to a more social and normal one.
21:46Your prime minister, Ali Rahman, he's been prime minister for a long time. How has it affected his government? Has this been a pivotal moment of his premiership and his administration? I think it has to do, it's not a governmental moment, it's not a political moment. I would like to see it as a societal moment in the sense that whoever runs the country after the protests, I hope will be more cautious and will be more careful the way how the country is being run, the way how public goods are being distributed, the balance between public and private. And I hope we will enter into a new area where the fight against organised crime and corruption, transparency and accountability and rule of law, economic rule of law.
22:49There's another side of this story too. The stakes of all this isn't just some hotel, some resort, not even perhaps the fate of this particular Albanian government, but perhaps of the country's European destiny as well. Stay with us.
23:12Fall is here and no matter which tags you have in your pocket, Vortex has you covered. Hunt your way and trust that your gear is up to the test when it matters most. Every Vortex product is covered by our VIP warranty. No red tape, no receipt, no hassle. Covered for life no matter what. Make sure you're ready for fall. Vortex has you covered with gear that's up to the test when it matters most, no matter how you hunt. And covered with a VIP warranty. Grab your Vortex optics, apparel, and everything else you need at Shields.com.
23:52We're on our way via a very rambustuous kind of speedboat. We're on our way to Zazan. So this is the island, just to recap. This is the island which is at the centre of all these days after day after day after day of protest. And essentially it has been an island which has only recently become available for Albanians to go and visit, relatively speaking. The island itself, save for some disused barracks and scrap metal strewn about the place, is entirely undeveloped, though perhaps not quite as remote as Ivanka might have suggested. So here we are, made it to Suzanne Island after our 45-minute rather treacherous boat journey.
24:37We're very, very brave. This is an absolutely classic Mediterranean scene in some way. Blue, crystalline, lagoon-like water. Families enjoying themselves, enjoying a day at the beach in the beating August sun. there may be one thing you have noticed particularly for those watching this rather than listening to it what do you notice about this? what do you notice about this place? does it seem especially undiscovered to you? because that's what Ivanka seemed to think I mean if it was undiscovered until recently these people will probably feel including the boatload of people who have quite literally just arrived as we've been filming will probably feel quite stupid welcome welcome to the island welcome Suzanne is in fact far from undiscovered.
25:18Thousands come daily to enjoy its narrow strip of crystalline beaches. The Trump family has stumbled on some very old anxieties, reanimating them in even this, the most pro-American of European states. So Suzanne itself actually has a complicated, chequered history. And I think it's actually part of that history and what that history represents, which is propelling some of what we're seeing in Albanian politics in these protests right now, night after night. You can see here that actually for many years, this place wasn't somewhere that you'd come in to enjoy the beach. It was a military fortress.
25:57There are remnants all over the island of the communist period under the dictator Enver Hoxha, where he basically shut the entire thing off. And he put a thousand soldiers on it, and there are the remnants of all that. Like I say, there are barracks, there are bunkers, there were soldiers here, there was a military hospital here, there was a military school here. Closed off the entire thing. And it was only after the regime fell and something like democracy came along that the public were able to enjoy places like this. That wasn't alone. Even parts of Tirana, the capital, closed off under the communists.
26:33This is a country which has a folk memory of a small group of elites in an entirely arbitrary way deciding what to do with public land without ever thinking to consult the public. And then you get the Trumps and you get the international oligarchs. And the ideology is obviously completely different. The politics is completely different. But the anxiety remains the same, that you have a small group of elites doing favours for other small groups of elites. And ordinary people just get pushed and cut out. Albanians know that they were kept away from places like Cezanne by the communists with bunkers and bullets.
27:18And right now, they're fearing the same thing will happen all over again, this time by dynastic American capitalism with private security and five-star hotels. Why Albania? Why this small Balkan country? being, you could say, the kind of center of the international anti-Trump resistance. At the moment, it seems rather unlikely. This is a very pro-American country, going back a century, more than a century. The US has been really important to its security, the kind of stability of this region. But in other ways, it's not so surprising. And I think that has to do with the experience and the recent experience of living under this communist dictatorship and the kind of centralization of state power, the authority concentrated in the hands of the executive, the kind of state capture, and the really reckless decision-making made by leaders of the country.
28:16And so there is an experience with that, a recent experience. And so the population is really sensitive to signs of it and primed. And so the protests are about dissatisfaction with the country's democratic institutions. But I think you can squint and also see it in another way about democratic maturity and the population being prime for this and opposed to any kind of signs of this sort of return. And so in other ways, it's not as likely as maybe it seems at first glance. Back in Tirana, there are dark whispers about where all of this might go. It's a summer lull now-ish, but numbers are expected to swell again into the autumn.
29:04And the Prime Minister has vowed to put an end to these demonstrations, saying it's an embarrassment to the country. But the protesters are gearing up too. So where are we here? So we are here at the main boulevard of Tirana, National Heroes or Deshmore Tekombit. So what we see here is the checkpoint since 2014 as a result that during communist time, till 1944, all this area was the area of rich people of Tirana. So when communism took power... The bloc lose. The bloc, yes. Arben Kola runs tours for the tourists by day, but by night he's become one of the most prominent figures of this nascent movement, now trying to bring down the Albanian government.
29:57I'm a tour guide for like 15 years, since 2011, so I know what foreigners love about Albania. They love countryside, tradition, gastronomy, so we should focus on that kind of tourism, rural tourism, cultural tourism. The tourism by the sea is becoming a terrorism, not a tourism. Terrorism? Yeah. The reason why is becoming because if this kind of tourism becomes impossible for Albanians to access the coast, then I call it a terrorism. I don't want that kind of development. So myself in Zvernets, where they want to build, I've been going with my wife, my friends, my kids since 2007 but if that gets expensive and becomes an area where you cannot go anymore then I don't like that development it's not a development for Albanians you're standing against this particular project and protesting against this particular project because you see defeating is a way of saving Albania itself saving Albania itself a lot of people on the streets are pensioners who their pension is only£100 a month.
Read the full transcript
31:16Can you imagine living with£100 when prices have gone crazy? You need a minimum of£400 a pensioner needs in Albania to have a living, but they are only receiving£100,£120 a month. Where do you think it will end up? Because it's going to be hard for him to back down, isn't it? It's going to end up, I tell you, in a violence. Violence? Yeah, and we don't want that. Because Albania has experienced violence in the past and violence has sent us nowhere. Why do you think you all inevitably end up violent? Because people are not going to be on the street forever. They are giving time and time to reflect.
31:59He's not reflecting and there's going to come a point that we will not be able to stop anymore more the hate, that anger that people have for this government. And don't forget, this protest is not just against the prime minister and this government, which is the most corrupted by statistics of foreign agencies in Europe, but is also against the head of opposition. So you're saying the stakes, and I know it's not just about Trump and the Trump family, it's about all sorts of development. But if this Trump development goes ahead and the others with it. You're saying that the end point of that is that Albania is engulfed into a violent confrontation of some description.
32:40Definitely, definitely, because Albanians are tolerant by nature, but also they get crazy so quickly. So now he has come to a point where the knife has touched the ash. So they They have no choice. Wall, wall, wall. And you have no choice, just to fight back. And the time of fighting back is already on the streets. And I don't know when is going to be the time when the violence might break out. And we are trying at all costs to avoid that. And we are hoping that he's going to run away and leave us alone. But it seems the international mafia oligarchy of Albania is not leaving him because they have already paid him, you know, prepaid.
33:32So they are telling him to continue with the projects. There's a geopolitical element to all of this. Albania is a candidate country for EU accession. It has long had designs on joining the bloc. The EU, though, is concerned about these sorts of developments, these sorts of rule changes to accommodate the powerful and money that it suggests perhaps Albania isn't a proper democracy yet. And they've been burned before by Eastern European states not being quite as democratic as they were cracked up to be when they joined. Brussels is undoubtedly watching. So I'm standing in the middle of Skanderbeg Square, which is the main, the heart of Tirana, the main square at the centre of Tirana and everywhere around it in every direction you can see the influence of Eddie Rama and the Rama government in prime minister for so long you can see the development that he has brought tower after tower block going up glistening redevelopment property boom going on here colored in politically painted a lot of the old communist buildings to make them seem more appealing more attractive there is no doubt that Albanian economy has grown enormously under his government But, but, but, there is a difference, isn't there?
34:46Which is, in a sense, it seems to me at the heart of everything that is going on in this country at the moment. There is a difference between development and modernization. Development builds airports. It builds new towns and cities. It can bring wealth. It can build highways and infrastructure. But you can get that in autocracy. Indeed, we see that all over the world, those sort of things happening in autocracies. Just look at China. Modernisation is about building institutions, it's about building laws, courts, a functioning judicial system. All of the things, by the way, parliamentary oversight, all of the things that very often say no to development.
35:27And in a sense, even bigger than that, that is the wider choice it feels that Albania is being presented with. On the one hand you've got the European ideal, them joining the EU, and they are all about that modernization. They are all about building environmental protections. They are all about building those independent systems that are bigger than any one person, any one deal, any one transaction. And then on the other hand, what do you have? You have Trumpian transactionalism, where it's about access, it's about personal relationships, it's about the deal, which is bigger and should be bigger than any process.
36:06And those are two competing visions of the West that Albania has long wanted to join and become a fully-fledged member of. And they're basically, in a sense, being asked to choose. And finally, what do you think the stakes are for Albania and Albanian politics, depending on how this goes? Well, this is a defining moment for Albanian society, as I mentioned. I mean, it's a stress test for our modernity and for our maturity. If politics will hear well the message coming from the streets, I think I see a huge opportunity for improvement of our democratic credentials, of our social and economic standards, and for a possible EU accession of this country.
36:59So it's a potential turning point in either direction? Of course, it's a potential turning point. We'll be back just after this.
37:34you covered with gear that's up to the test when it matters most, no matter how you hunt. And covered with a VIP warranty. Grab your Vortex optics, apparel, and everything else you need at shields.com.
37:53There's a temptation when you come to Albania to see everything through the personalities. Rama, Berisha, Trump, Kushner. And perhaps that's understandable, because politics in this part of the world does feel intensely personal. From King Zog to Enver Hoxha, from the chaotic politics of the 90s to the extraordinary dominance of Eddie Rama today, power here has tended to accumulate around individuals rather than institutions. And that leaves Albania with a question which is in some ways as old as the modern country itself. Can it finally make those institutions more important than the people who happen to control them?
38:30and in so doing in our own deeply cynical democracies in the West, where we've come to accept so much in even asking the question, do the Albanians have something to remind us? It doesn't do to be too dewy-eyed about what is happening in Albania right now. And when you're on those protests, you can see a lot of the convergence of a lot of the elements of our contemporary politics that we're very familiar with. And frankly, not all of it is pleasant. There is that deep, caustic populism, that deep, caustic anti-elitism, which doesn't always necessarily go anywhere. There is that deep conspiracism, you know, scratch the surface and you hear talk about Soros and about Israel and anti-Semitism sometimes not being too far from the surface.
39:22You know, whisper darkly about geopolitical games, Iran and all the rest of it, all the stuff we've talked about. And yet, at the same time, there is something quite extraordinary, isn't there? And it is that question that we started this episode with. How could it be that Albanians, Albania, Tirana, this quiet little corner of Europe, could find itself, could be willing to become, in a sense, the home of anti-Trump resistance or anti-Trumpism. And the answer to that question is, of course, that it's not really about Trump at all in this deeply pro-American country. It's about the sort of thing, in this case, that Trump and the House of Trump and his family represent, which is the ability to warp the rules around themselves, to use their power, their wealth, to have different rules apply to them.
40:29And this is a country that for a century or more, under regime after regime of different stripe and colour and complexion, has had so much experience. precisely that kind of politics and in that sense what we're seeing night after night in this country is a rebellion against that not against any person or group of people and that should be inspirational to us it is this pupil of democracy reminding the so-called masters of democracy in countries like our own in established democracies that ultimately you get the politics that you deserve, you get the politics that you demand. And these people are not complacent about the power of the powerful to create a system which is for them, of them, and by them, rather than for us, of us, by us.
41:29And that should inspire us. And that should remind remind us that in our older, more established democracies, we should stop being so absolutely complacent. This has been a special episode of The News Agents. It has been filmed and recorded by Shane Fenley and produced by Louis Dagenhart. We will be back with our normal service next week. We'll see you then. Have a lovely weekend. Overwhelmed? That was me with diabetes. Hey, I'm Gibran. Between teaching and coaching, managing diabetes felt like an extra job. With the Freestyle Libre 3CGM, I get real-time glucose readings and have the insights to make informed decisions.
42:11My life feels lighter now. Learn more at freestyllibre.us. The views expressed should not be used for medical diagnosis or treatment as a substitute for professional medical advice. Individual circumstances may vary. For prescription only. Safety info found at freestyllibre.us. This has been a global production. Evening, buyer's remorse. Buy a new car? I'll be moving in. Let's get started. Uh, sorry, I think there's been a mistake. I bought it from Carvana. You what? Yeah, great price. I even have seven days to love it or return it. So there's no... No, no buyer's remorse. More like buyer's rejoice?
42:49Ugh, I guess I'll let myself out. Congratulations. I mean it. Buyer's rejoice. Buy your car today on Carvana. Limitations and exclusions may apply. See our seven-day return policy at Carvana.com.
From the publisher
How has a Trump family luxury development sparked a protest movement so large that it is threatening to bring down a European Prime Minister? Well that's exactly what has happened in Albania. A proposed 4 billion euro resort complex in on of the country's most cherished nature spots has led to the largest demonstrations seen there in over three decades.
Dubbed the 'Flamingo Revolution' because of the threat to Albania's birds, the capital Tirana is seeing nightly marches - sometimes attracting hundreds of thousands of people. What started off as an environmental cause has become something much bigger, with the movement demanding mass resignations and an end to what critics see as a lack of transparency, democratic backsliding and even corruption. What happens now could shape the country's future for years to come. Lewis has a special report from Albania.
The News Agents is a Global Production.
The News Agents is brought to you by HSBC UK - https://www.hsbc.co.uk/
