Trump: “A whole civilisation will die tonight“

24:26Lewis Goodall:They're going to have no bridges. They're going to have no power plants. Stone ages. President Trump threatens to unleash war crimes on the civilian population of Iran? Has the president gone quite mad? And if so, will anyone ever dare to remove him? The fallout of the Iran war. Follow it live on LBC. Listen on our free global player app or the LBC app. Are you trying to get weight loss support through telehealth, but it feels overwhelming and rushed? Check out orderlymeds.com now. Orderlymeds.com was built to be different. Here, you connect with real doctors who take the time to understand your goals, review your eligibility and guide you through a plan that's right for you.

25:07Orderly meds provides access to proven GLP-1 medications like semaglutide and terzepatide, including both name brand options and personalized compound versions when appropriate. So you have choices backed by clinical oversight, not guesswork. It's a simpler, more supportive telehealth experience designed around people who want clarity, care, and confidence in their weight loss journey. And your medication is delivered directly to your home in discreet packaging. So your experience stays private from start to finish. Do your research. Ask the right questions. Then visit orderlymeds.com slash podcast for an exclusive offer.

25:41Again, that's orderlymeds.com slash podcast. Individual results may vary. Not medical advice. Eligibility required. See site for details.

25:52The News Agents. Businesses are considering banning Kanye West from entering Britain to headline that festival. I think you're also aware of this. The defence from Melvin Benn, the organiser, is that he's here to perform. That would seem to suggest that if Vladimir Putin played the balalaika, we would invite him here to UK. What should happen over Kanye West?

26:11Lewis Goodall:Well, I thought it was a terrible statement from the Wireless Festival overnight, which attempted to give Kanye West the fig leaf of credibility he doesn't deserve. He didn't make one or two off-colour remarks during a bipolar episode. He wrote, recorded and released a song called harl hitler plastered it across t-shirts has given a mealy-mouthed and self-serving apology and as far as i can see has done little to earn the forgiveness of jewish people it's not for me to forgive i'm not jewish and i think forgiveness has to be earned you have to repent and redeem yourself through action not just words we're far from that he shouldn't be headlining the festival and it seems to me that the um organizers are putting money before morals and i think that's a real shame well that was the health secretary wes streeting uh speaking to nick ferrari on lbc this morning since when uh and while we've been recording we've just heard that can you west is not going to be allowed entry into britain uh to appear at the wireless festival festival where he was going to headline on three successive nights uh at the kind of concert that takes place in Finsbury Park in North London.

27:22I kind of think that, you know, you don't want to be banning people from entering this country. But given what Kanye West had done and said and has courted controversy throughout his career, I'm not sure what other judgment the government could have reached because if there is a line and you can't cross a line i think broadly speaking saying how hitler saying i'm going to depcon 3 against the jews all the rest of it given the context where we find ourselves in 2026 where you know we've seen attacks on the jewish community really would it have been acceptable for kanye west to appear if you've missed some of the details of this it's probably worth just going through what he did it wasn't just that he said harl hitler he released a song and it was only this time last year it was may of 2025 that he released a track called hh you know harl hitler and at the same time he was selling swastika t-shirts through his own website and actually as recently as i think four months ago um there have been sort of videos of you know the lovely brothers Fuentes and Christian Tate, Andrew Tate's brother, and sort of manosphere influencers dancing around to his hit.

28:47You know, this was just kind of in January of this year. And so I guess the question is, if you're apologising, which is what we're being told, if you've got mental health problems, which is what you're being told, then what have you done to demonetise yourself from that appalling, egregious position. I mean, I don't believe that somebody releases a single, right, a year ago, called Heil Hitler, and then let me just give you his post, which was at the end of May, I am done with anti-Semitism. What does that mean? I'm done with that? Like, oh, it's not working for me anymore? It was good while it lasted, but I'm done with it now.

29:31People have got bored of it. I'm sort of sick of it. I think I'm moving on. Right, great. Yeah, it's passé, exactly. I love all people. God forgive me for the pain I've caused. I forgive those who've caused me pain. Thank you, God. I just don't get why he was ever, ever the choice for that headline act because there's a difference between understanding people's mental health problems and understanding people who say terrible things that they then regret and actually releasing a single that you are still making money off.

30:03Lewis Goodall:Yeah, and of course, I should say that there are lots of people with bipolar. It doesn't lead them to be appalling anti-Semites. Yeah, but they love being kind of categorised in the same group as him. I mean, I would just say, I mean, I think that I'm actually a little bit uncomfortable, actually, with the state banning him for this reason. I think it would have been far better for the invitation never to have been made in the first place. 100%. I think the invitation being made, given that, as you say, Emily, we're not talking about events or statements being put out there sort of 10 years ago or five years ago, three years.

30:36Lewis Goodall:We're talking about nine months ago. It wasn't 16. No, we're talking about nine months ago. And I think given that his track record, which is copious and egregious and appalling, and I can particularly understand if you're not Jewish, how you would find it utterly rancid and rancid that he has been invited by this festival. I completely agree with that I think however it does slightly different political territory once the invitation has been made for the state to step in and say he can't come in and that's just because I just think we have to be pretty wary you know a free society, liberal society doesn't ban people for having offensive views it bans people for causing harm now you can have an argument of course about whether the fact that he has expressed these views causes harm and you can have that argument about where the line comes.

31:23Lewis Goodall:But if you start excluding people from the country for their speech alone, first of all, there is a question about a future Home Secretary, who knows, maybe a reform Home Secretary might start to ban people that we think it is a good idea for them to come into the country. And it's also a practical point. I think it would have been far better if he had been allowed in the country, he had been subjected through journalism and journalists to ask him about his views. And also, you know, he said he wanted to meet with Jewish leaders and Jewish leaders invited him to meet with them. Do that. Let them explain to him the harm that those sorts of statements actually make.

32:00So, but don't you think that's just utterly performative? Of course you want to meet with Jewish leaders because you want to get into the country and do your festival. I mean, he could have met with Jewish leaders, you know, a year ago or as soon as he wanted to apologise. I mean, I know he met with one rabbi, didn't he? But why should you? Why should you, if you're a member of the Jewish community, be subjected to have to listen to somebody ranting along again just to make money?

32:24Lewis Goodall:Well, I suppose the point is, is that in a liberal and free society, we do sometimes have to tolerate views that we find abhorrent and appalling and egregious and that they're made. And I suppose that's the point, right? Tolerating speech in a free society is not the same as endorsing that appalling speech. In fact, the litmus test for a free and liberal society is the fact that a liberal state permits all sorts of speech that we find egregious. Now, as I say, the classical kind of definition for when you don't allow it is when it's causing harm. And I accept you can have a debate about whether what he said does cross the threshold of causing harm.

32:57Lewis Goodall:My other worry, though, with it is that what's going to happen to Wes now? It allows him to be martyred. It allows him to present. As we've seen, we've seen this game play out before with political figures, you know, who've had the same thing happen to them. They love the sense of persecution. I think it would have been better. A, it would have been far more preferable that this invitation had never gone out. I think the organisers have much to answer for in that regard. But I don't think that is the same thing as the state then stepping in and saying you can't come in. So, Lewis, I've got to put this to you, that this is exactly the argument that Nigel Farage is making now.

33:31And people said after you. Both classical liberals. And people said to you after your Keir Starmer documentary that you had absolutely sold out. And next stop was reform. And here we are. You're taking up Nigel Farage. She's talking points. Is that Nigel on the phone right now? That's Nigel on the phone right now.

33:46Lewis Goodall:Yeah, yeah. Now, let me just finish with news agents today. Then we'll talk. Let's have a listen to Nigel Farage. For myself, I wouldn't buy a ticket. I wouldn't recommend anyone buys a ticket. I think his comments are vile. Really vile. The sort of rabbit hole of anti-Semitism stroke Nazism that he's gone down is vile. but I think if we start banning people from entering the country because we don't like what they say, I worry where that ends up. I'm just trying to imagine Nigel Farage at a Kanye West concert in his chords and his tweed jacket and cap. It's somehow difficult to conjure with. No, I think that, yeah, I'm uncomfortable with the whole thing.

34:36I thought that Melvin Benn, the kind of managing director of Wireless and the concert, issuing a statement last night saying we've just got to have a sense of forgiveness in our heart and you know i went and spent months on a kibbutz as a teenager and i'm not at all anti-semitic that was the moment i decided absolutely i'm sorry he should not be allowed to come and do this concert because i thought no no no you see a way of making money and kanye west will sell tickets and that is all you've thought about and it's not about we've got to open our hearts to forgiveness i think that Of course, we've got to, at times, open our hearts and be forgiving of people's transgressions.

35:16But this wasn't one person just with a one little kind of error. I mean, as you say, he had deliberately marketed this. He'd sold T-shirts off the back of it. He went to town on it and has just loved seeking attention. I mean, weirdly, there are some parallels to be drawn between the personality of Kanye West and the personality who we talked about in the first half, Donald Trump. Because no one stops him. that no one stops them. They get away with murder. They had this huge bromance where they just loved each other and probably from 2016 to 2018. And, you know, Kanye West was fully behind Donald Trump.

35:52Also, we do ban people. I mean, we actually do. I remember Louis Farrakhan, you know, the sort of the million man march. He had a ban going back to the 80s, which I think is still in place. You look at Tyler, the Creator, another rapper, banned for I think about five years because his lyrics promoted terrorism. Chris Brown banned after assaulting Rihanna. Mike Tyson banned for a criminal conviction. Martha Stewart again a criminal conviction. Now you could say well that's a clear line because they've got a criminal conviction but if you widen it out like Martha Stewart was I think fraud was it?

36:30Like is it better to have a fraudster coming to the country or somebody who calls himself a Nazi? I don't know.

36:36Lewis Goodall:But I suppose at least with a criminal conviction, there is a line. There's a clear line. Whereas what we're doing here is we're basically saying the Home Secretary will decide on the basis of political pressure that there is on the basis of sort of public outrage. I'm just not sure that that's particularly I don't think that's a particularly durable or sustainable or desirable kind of litmus test for who we should ban, because it's a pretty doctrinaire thing to do. I mean, for example, are we going to do it with Elon Musk? I mean, Elon Musk has promoted Nazi material. He's promoted far-right material.

37:06Like a Hitler on Grog. Yeah, well, yeah, you know, like, I mean,

37:09Lewis Goodall:he's promoted Holocaust revisionism. It is really complicated because there's a lot on Shabana Moon's shoulders right now if everything's down to her. And I'm sure there's also a political imperative right now, given the sort of state of play in the UK for the government to look really tough on antisemitism or anything that is spreading it. But I suppose my question's also for the audience members, which I think is a whole other area of complication, because you could say that most people who buy a ticket to wireless are going for the music. They don't want to look at the politics. They don't want to look at the, you know, the rows.

37:45They just want to go because it's a great gig and they can't wait to be there. Fine. So are they in the sort of basket of like, don't bring us into this. We just like the music. We don't care. but as soon as you're there right and you are essentially looking up to literally looking up to a man on stage who is in this sort of position of you know being idolized that's that's what we do to our music stars they are somehow complicit aren't they in sort of bigging up the things that he's said the things that he's sung right so I don't think you can be completely you can't be completely out of the whole sphere of like well don't ask me i don't care i mean you you sort of there's one thing about it though i mean look in the jewish community there is a very strong powerful feeling that britain has become a kind of unsafe place you know you see the attack that took place the other week on the hatzala ambulances in golders green uh that was appalling you saw what happened at the synagogue in uh in manchester where two people are killed you know because of a sort of, you know, someone going mad there.

38:50And the feeling that you are under attack and therefore the government is asked the question. And the complaint has been in the Jewish community. The government is very good at saying it's very concerned about anti-Semitism and then does nothing about it. That's what he said this time, wasn't it? It's deeply concerning. Everything's deeply concerning. And we must do everything we can to tackle anti-Semitism apart from taking action. And I guess this is taking action. I agree. Slippery slope. Where does it end? what happens if reform becomes a government of what you can do? It was only a year ago, you know, it wasn't like this goes back sort of ten years and it was, oh, you're still going on about that it was last May.

39:28Lewis Goodall:But he hasn't committed a crime he hasn't committed a crime I mean, you can have an argument about when we've, and I can imagine some people listening to this, what about Lucy Connolly? What about people who have been imprisoned for tweets and whatever usually when they've been imprisoned for tweets they have incited violence which is clearly a line. Now, you can make an argument to say that some of these things that West of Kanye West has done does sort of implicitly incite violence and hatred against Well it condones Nazism doesn't it? I mean it does. Indeed but we do allow Nazism in the country I mean that is sometimes the cost of a free society is really really unsettling and disturbing and what I would agree Emily totally is that anyone going to a concert like that and sort of lionising someone like that they should be in full receipt of social censure and they should absolutely be pilloried and attacked I mean, that's really interesting.

40:16I don't know that I... I mean, what I think is it's really uncomfortable to put people in a position where they think they're buying a ticket to a music festival and then they are pilloried for that. They don't invite him.

40:27Lewis Goodall:I suppose it depends how they react to it. As I say, the people who I think should receive most censure are the people who are invited in the first place. But I think that there is an argument sometimes that... And I think it's particularly in our own age as well, that whether we like it or not, and let's just divorce Wes from it, there are more extreme views in our society in our politics than ever before those of us who abhor that extreme those extremities and think they ought to remain fringe we have to recognize the fact that they're not and so therefore there is a question which you know confronts us which is how best to tackle them now i happen to think that generally speaking that will have to come through the discourse of open debate and challenging them and taking them on publicly rather than prohibiting them or banning them or whatever it happens to be.

41:14Lewis Goodall:Because I think in the end, down that route, these people actually get stronger, not weaker. I think I used to think that. I think I used to think, oh, it's fine. Let everyone have their platform. Let everyone come in. Let everyone march on the street. All the rest of it. And now I think we're kidding ourselves if we don't see the effect it has, actually. I think it does have a normalising effect that the more you say, oh, well, he's apologised. Oh, well, that's OK. Oh, well, let him say what he wants. It's a bit like this whole thing of, you know, platforming, you know, the universities to sort of pull people in and there was all this sort of, you know, outrage.

41:57Oh, why are these young students stopping so-and-so from talking? Because actually the students know what they're hearing. They see those people on social media. They know what they're getting. It's not like this is your first time ever to hear from Tommy Robinson. You know, you know what he sounds like. You know what he says. So actually let them make their minds up. But in that example, it is lionising. I think that's the thing.

42:20Lewis Goodall:But in that example, would we not say that the organisation which invited that person to speak at the university has every right to make the invitation? Those who disapprove of it have every right to protest. but ultimately that if that organisation wants that person to come and speak then it ought to go ahead, however awful the thing that they're saying might be. I agree with you but I also think that it is detrimental actually. Funny enough, I think now I believe that the more we kind of shrug our shoulders, the more we're kind of going, oh yeah, we've given up that fight. We've given up even pretending that Nazism isn't something pretty fucking abhorrent.

42:59Lewis Goodall:But is it giving up not to argue with it and take it on directly rather than just saying banning it or banning those events? Look, there's no right answer. It's difficult. It's difficult. And it's a conundrum because we all want the same thing, which is that these views shouldn't exist. The question is how you tackle it.

43:29was built to be different. Here, you connect with real doctors who take the time to understand your goals, review your eligibility, and guide you through a plan that's right for you. Orderly Meds provides access to proven GLP-1 medications like semaglutide and terzepatide, including both name brand options and personalized compound versions when appropriate. So you have choices backed by clinical oversight, not guesswork. It's a simpler, more supportive telehealth experience designed around people who want clarity, care, and confidence in their weight loss journey. And your medication is delivered directly to your home in discreet packaging.

44:03So your experience stays private from start to finish. Do your research. Ask the right questions. Then visit orderlymeds.com slash podcast for an exclusive offer. Again, that's orderlymeds.com slash podcast. Individual results may vary. Not medical advice. Eligibility required. See site for details.

44:24The News Agents. In this country, what has happened in the midst of this election campaign is one of the worst examples of foreign election interference that I've ever seen or ever even read about. The bureaucrats in Brussels have tried to destroy the economy of Hungary. They have tried to make Hungary less energy independent. They have tried to drive up costs for Hungarian consumers. And they've done it all because they hate this guy. Thank God the vice president, J.D. Vance, is talking about election interference and democratic integrity. What a relief. Let's just check where he is. He's in Budapest and he's meeting with the Hungarian prime minister, Viktor Orban, and he's trying to get him re-elected in a fiercely competitive election which takes place this coming Sunday.

45:18The context for this is that Orbán, who has been in power for 16 years, who is one of the most authoritarian and pro-Russian of Europe's leaders, is now looking like he might be wiped from power. And J.D. Vance has floated in like a fairy godmother to try and save the day. am i wrong in recollecting that during the presidential election in the united states donald trump started losing his shit about a bunch of scruffy oics from the uk who'd gone over

45:55Lewis Goodall:who were labor supporters that's the labor party you're talking about yeah i'm talking about a bunch of teenagers and kids who wanted to go out and send a few leaflets through letterboxes in Ohio to help the Democrats. And here we have the vice president flying into Budapest in the week of the election and saying Victor Orban is bloody great and complaining about election interference. I mean, irony is dead. I mean, what brass neck, what chutzpah does it take for an American leader to do that? I have never seen such a flagrant, obvious piece of election interference as what J.D. Vance is doing right now.

46:38Lewis Goodall:I've got a feeling John might be saying, Emily, that the Trump White House might not always entirely be totally consistent. Cleaner than clean. Oh, God. Did I say that? Although, to be fair, they might be hypocrites. We'll have to look into that. Obama did fly in to talk to David Cameron on a state visit. I think it was. Not a state visit, but a presidential visit, whatever it is, just before the EU referendum. Yeah. So is that kind of... Did I tell you I was on Air Force One with him when he did that? No, you never mentioned that. Oh, come on. Come on, everybody. Gather round. Gather round the fire.

47:08Gather round.

47:09Lewis Goodall:Get a marshmallow out. Yeah. Look, we disagree about this. I think that could constitute election interference. But he's not choosing which party should be in power. It was a referendum where America did have a very direct interest, as argued by, you know, Barack Obama, about what was in America's national interest about that. And that he thought that, you know... The interesting thing about this is if the polls are right, and at the moment Peter Magyar has got a double digit lead, we think, over Viktor Orban. That's the main opposition leader who's sort of formerly of Fidesz, of Orban's party.

47:45If he wins this, then Vance will have tied himself to a loser, right, to the wrong side, which suggests that he's going sort of double or quits on this. because if he loses Hungary, which he thinks is the most important, one of the key relationships with America in Europe right now, and he's said that in the press conference today, that's quite a blow. Which is why countries don't get involved

48:07Lewis Goodall:in other countries' general elections. Will Orban win? Will he lose? Who knows? Who knows? Yeah, who knows? Who knows? JD apparently said he will help Orban as much as he can. As much as he can. Would you say JD's an oik as well, John? I wouldn't dream of it. We'll be back tomorrow. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.