Weekend Edition: Usyk beats Dubois but where was the hype? - The Sports Agents

0:00Mark Pougatch:Hey man, you hungry? Let's order delivery. Yeah, I was thinking Italian burgers. Oh Game night just got tense two bros on different sides of the fence Burgers or pasta tonight Why can't we have food without the fight? With Wonder, you can combine 20 restaurants in one delivery so no one has to settle. Download the app today. Wonder. Food without the fight. This is a Global Player original podcast. We've got the biggest fight in boxing coming up this weekend. Alexander Usyk against the man who hopes to be the next big face of British boxing, Daniel Dubois. If Usyk wins, he's going to join an elite list as the two-time undisputed world heavyweight champion.

0:50Mark Pougatch:And not many would bet against him in any fight, especially now Fury has sort of retired and AJ seems to be past his prime. So the Wembley stage is set, almost 100 ,000 fans will be there. But has it really got the build-up you would expect from a massive world title fight? Welcome to The Sports Agents.

1:17The Sports Agents. With Gabby Logan and Mark Chapman. Hello, Mark. Hi, Gabby. Plenty on the pod this week that we've covered.

1:28Mark Pougatch:Yeah, we had a good look back at Chelsea's, I think you'd say shock, Club World Cup title win, wouldn't you? And Sam Wallace came to us live from a hotel in New York the morning after the night before, about that and the ramifications that it might have on the World Cup next year, what we learned ahead of that, and also about this new bromance between Karl Palmer and President Trump. No, I knew he was going to be here, but I didn't know he was going to be on the stand when we left the trophy, so I was a bit confused, yeah. For once, footballers weren't kind of putting their hands over their mouths, were they?

2:01Mark Pougatch:And you could kind of lip-read what they were all saying to each other, which was basically, they just all seemed perplexed as to why the President of the United States wasn't moving out of shot. And that in itself kind of almost summed up. That was a microcosm of the whole of this tournament, wasn't it? And I guess that we can probably expect more of next summer. Trump just deciding that he wants to be involved at various stages of the World Cup. I actually thought they handled that really well because it was quite confusing for them. I actually thought being asked about Donald Trump in the US on his home turf, where it is a very, I say, political issue.

2:37I mean, it is that by its very nature, but it's a divisive issue. I thought he handled it well. You don't want to jostle the President of the United States on a trophy lift and they made sure that they didn't.

2:47Mark Pougatch:I think he'll be Trump's favourite player now, won't he? We were talking about this. It's amazing, the first half. Donald Trump will know who Paul Palmer is. There's no two ways about that. No one who left that stadium could have thought otherwise. We had 20, 25 minutes of lots of cheer and celebration if you're a Manchester United fan. We discussed their transfer situation, why they can't sell anybody while they're struggling to buy people as well. Just Mateus Cunha come in so far as they struggled to get Brian and Buomo over the line. But Nader Manua and Laurie Whitwell joined us for that. It feels actually perhaps even more accentuated than in the past because you've got five players currently exiled from first team training, even as my colleague Mark Critchley reported this week, sort of told not to report to Carrington until five o 'clock after Ruben Amren and his first team squad have left.

3:43So they're obviously players that they are making the message clear to their futures lie elsewhere. To be on the bench is one thing. To be not in a squad is one thing. But to be told you have to train by yourself, that's a completely other thing. Because this happened to me in 2011. And from my side of things, this was at Man City under Roberto Mancini. Why are football clubs so childish? What would you and those group of players done if you were still training that meant that you just actually couldn't have been around.

4:15Mark Pougatch:Just add it to that as well, Chappers. It doesn't make economic sense. No, no, exactly. Because you want your asset to be as physically fit and performing as well as you can to get maximum price for your asset. What message does it send to the market that you don't even want those people mixing with the rest of your talent? That doesn't make any sense. Yeah, 100%. You get almost put in this sort of like villain category. But one thing that comes from it is the messaging comes from the football club. so as a consequence you never really have your say and say from my side personally like I would never disrupt anything at City because that's the place that I wanted to be you know this is something that meant a lot to me through my life and to be on that side of it almost being perceived as a villain was for me you know it was heartbreaking it was frustrating and it's that sense of helplessness because there's nothing you can do about it.

4:57Mark Pougatch:Are you literally able to just pick the phone up or your agent pick the phone up and call whoever you want in this situation and put yourself out there? To be completely honest and transparent I think the options Marcus Rashford had would probably be different to the ones I had in 2011, with all due respect to myself. But in reality, it is tricky because as well, you can't just say you're going to go to this place because from there you then enter the world of contracts and what the United want for you, you yourself, what are you willing to accept? Will the deal be able to happen? And how long is it going to take?

5:28Because for some as well, the moment you think you've got a way out of the situation that you're in, if the club then start making it a longer process and it's dragging out, that's when some of the frustration comes in that's when you start to see like player action and so on and again that's a very tricky place to be in and in regards to all this i've got to say as well when somebody tells you that they don't want you there that's as clear as messages you could probably ask for you don't need to say this five o 'clock thing and i think for those players coming in i think anybody that's you know existed around the m60 at any point in manchester like that's not a good time to be heading over there you know that'll break you just as much as getting there and seeing that there's nobody there's nobody there anymore as a footballer you love playing but it's not the individual side of things it's the collective it's being around your peers it's playing five a side six a side ten a side eleven a side playing in the arenas so you're taking something very significant away from those players and I personally don't think they need to do that and I personally shocked that you know this is something that's been going on for decades but something like the PFA the players union aren't finding ways to make it so it's harder for clubs to do it because all of a sudden it happens every summer but does it really need to if a player's been told they need to leave and a player decides that, you know, they have to go as well.

6:36Mark Pougatch:And then we looked back a little bit at Wimbledon. And of course, for the first time in 89 years, there was an all British pair to win the men's doubles championship. Lloyd Glasspool and Julian Clash came on the podcast. I think still struggling to recover their energy after their efforts there and telling us a little bit about why doubles deserves more coverage, more attention, and also how one of them played Djokovic in an advert.

7:15Mark Pougatch:Jules, you once were a body double for Novak Djokovic, I understand, on an advert for Bank of Australia and New Zealand. And looking at you now, I can see obviously why you got cast. I don't know whether your strokes are identical or not. I think they're a bit nicer, mine. no i mean i was struggling for cash at the time so it seemed uh seemed like a good option they paid me far too much money to do not a lot so i dread to dread to know what he got paid for that shoot but um yeah i mean it was a fun experience i met him i was quite a bit younger then yeah and i think they only used about one long shot of me walking out of car for the whole commercial so i mean i mean if you gabby if people are watching this on youtube lloyd's got a little bit of the James Haskell about him.

8:01So theoretically, if people are looking at YouTube, you've got Novak Djokovic, James Haskell and Lee Mack all on the same call. So there you go.

8:10Mark Pougatch:Lloyd, I'm not sure whether that's a compliment or not, actually. I'm not sure. It's more of a compliment than Lee Mack. Bloody hell. That's true. In terms of the men's singles, does your body double, do you think, have a chance of breaking into this duopoly that seems to be dominating now, this new era? Jules? I think it would be tough for him to consistently do it, but I think any week that comes around, he's always in contention. You can kind of feel it in the locker room. Guys definitely still fear him. I mean, maybe not as much as they used to, but he's not a guy that anyone wants to play.

8:44And I also think as his seeding slips down, he might even start playing these guys in some earlier rounds, which actually I almost think favours Novak. When you start playing in the semis, people are in form and they kind of start having, I guess, less to lose. But if you, I don't know if Sinner plays Novak third, fourth round. I think that could be very interesting. And certainly in the slams, I think he'll always have a chance. You can catch up with all episodes of the Sports Agents on Global Player or wherever you get your podcasts, hit subscribe or follow. Don't forget to rate and review.

9:13Mark Pougatch:Next up, we're going to chat to boxing reporter Steve Bunce as Alexander Usyk takes on Daniel Dubois at Wembley in front of 100 ,000 people in the fight to become the undisputed heavyweight champion of the world. The Sports Agents.

9:29The Sports Agents with Gabby Logan and Mark Chapman. Come on then, Buncee. This doesn't seem to be getting the attention that, say, Fury Usyk in Riyadh got before Christmas. You know what, the pair of you, I can't quite understand it because we're going to get 100 ,000 people there. We've got the great Oleksandr Usyk, one of the top 10 best fighters of the last 25, 50 years. We've got Daniel Dubois, this star potential, this talent, this kid that's on this road of redemption. And we've got 100 ,000 odd people. And we've got an undisputed heavyweight championship of the world. And yet, I jump in a taxi in London.

10:06On British soil. On British soil. On British soil. And that's pivotal. Don't jump ahead because I know where I'm going, Chappers. Trust me. I'm going to get there in a second, son. I'm going to get there in a second. And the British soil thing is really important. And yet, it's not caught on. Not just yet. Believe it or not, even though they've nearly done 100 ,000 tickets, it's been a slow boil, a slow burn. There will be a lot of anticipation once the first bell goes. And the reason it's on British Shore is quite simple. It gives Daniel Dubois every single possible advantage he can have and he needs every single possible advantage he can get.

10:41Mark Pougatch:Is it because they're fighting for space in a crowded sporting landscape? We've already discussed the stuff that's been going on last week when you consider this is the off-season of the football season. You know, there's been so much from test matches to the denouement of Wimbledon and, of course, this weekend at the Open. Is it that or is it just that Daniel Dubois hasn't really kind of resonated with the British public yet? Well, Daniel's not a great talker, Gabby. I mean, and that's being polite. He's not a great talker. Three or four words is basically a massive sentence from Daniel. Having his eye contact for more than five seconds is an absolute feat, unless you've got the geezer by the ears, I can assure you.

11:18But that's not, Daniel wasn't built on him selling stories and throwing tables and being vulgar. He's the worst swearer in history. If you ask him to swear, you can ask him to swear. You give him a word. It would be the kind of thing you'd do with a friend who can't pronounce German words in a pub if you're all drunk. And he'll get the swear word and he'll swear and it just sounds ridiculous. So he's not a naturally effusive character. He's not made for microphones in his face. He's not made for having people asking him loads of prying questions. So I said to him, what do you have to do to win?

11:54And he looked at me and 13 seconds later, he went, I have to win. And I said, no, no, that's what you have to do. What do you have to do to win? So then he looked at me again and he went, I have to win. Chapters, I told you about my scintillated interviews with him. I hold my hands up. If I have a stinker with a fighter, I'll hold my hands up. If I have a beautiful in-depth one where the guy leans across and he's crying and I'm crying, I'll also say, give me some praise. I've done two stinkers this week, one with Alexander Usyk and one with Daniel Dubois. It's not been my best week, Chapters. It's not been my best week.

12:25But he has a good chance, doesn't he? He might not be able to sell his fight, but he has a good chance of winning his fight. And that's what has sold it. The fact that this kid, since he last fought Oleksandr Usyk and he finished in the ninth round, capitulation, took a heavy shot, took a step back, took a knee, failed to beat the count. He faced some criticism. He came back for some really dark places. It looked like he might walk away from the sport. He came back in three fights in 10 months, which is rare in the boxing calendar for a top caliber fighter. Three fights in 10 months and he stopped all three of the opponents.

12:59And I would argue he was an underdog in all three of those fights. So that built momentum. After the first, there was momentum. After the third, which was about 105 ,000 people last September at Wembley, when he knocked out Anthony Joshua clean with that right hand in the fifth round. That leaves a brilliant message. So boxing people like him and I would say people in sport like him. But is he going to drag the general public in like Al Ricky did all those years ago? Or like Tyson Fury did? Or even like David Hay did? The answer is no. And even if he knocks out Usyk in two rounds, he still might not drag in the general public.

13:32Grannies are never going to ask you about him in the co-op shopping on a Sunday like they did with Nassim, like they did with Kowzaki, like they did with Tyson Fury.

13:39Mark Pougatch:And obviously Fury, you bring him up there. He's hinted that he will fight Usyk in a trilogy fight at Wembley next April. where Frank Warren said Fury's definitely not going to fight again this year, but that he does want to fight Usyk. Well, how does this fight play into those plans? If this fight's not careful, a fight that might happen next year is going to become bigger than this fight. Fury's been told to rein it in a little bit because it's a bit of an insult to Daniel Dubois, who's meant to be his promotional teammate, to talk about fighting the guy that Dubois is fighting next year. Usyk did tell me in a brilliant interview I did off microphone that of course he'll fight Fury.

14:15I've beaten him twice over 24 rounds. Of course I'll fight him. If there's 85 million or 100 million on the table, that's a minimum really. So of course Usyk will fight him. He'll pick his fights with care. And Fury, because he's getting on and his joints are falling apart, and I really mean that it's too many years of training camps, not the actual boxing. It's the 10-week training camps when you start training camp at 24 stone and you come down to 19 stone over a 10-week period. That's what takes its toll. on heavyweights especially. It takes its toll on 12-year-old gymnasts. It takes its toll on 14-year-old footballers in a hard season or a hard training camp.

14:53So with boxing, it takes its toll. So Fury is out there as a possibility. But I still think he's playing a little bit. I still think he's feeling the ground. He's just putting out feelers. He's definitely 100 million for me, he's thinking. And he doesn't want to have any build-up fights. He wants to go straight into some victory night. And by the time some people listen to this, that the fight may have happened. So if Usyk has won it, he becomes a two-time undisputed world heavyweight champion, which puts him in the same group as Foreman, Holyfield, Lennox Lewis and Muhammad Ali. They're the only four.

15:29And he'd be the first to do it in a four-belt era. Four-belt era. I've got to be honest with you. When Usyk turned professional after the Olympics or soon after the Olympics in London 2012, when he won a gold medal and I converted the football commentator to Darren Fletcher into the biggest Ukrainian boxing fan in history. He was screaming like a child at a boy's own concert. Oh, Fletch, it was lovely to watch that night. Since then, he's become even better. So he wins the Cruiserweight World titles, all four of them, on the road, one in Liverpool, one in Moscow, one in Estonia, defends in America.

16:02He's all over the place. He can't fight in Kiev. There's no business there, even before the war that's going on. And then he moves up to heavyweight. And we've been reluctant to give him the credit he deserves. You know, two victories over Fury, two victories over Joshua. He stops Daniel Dubois. He easily beats Derek Del Boychizora. He knocks out Tony Bellew. And still we're saying, yeah, but he's still only a cruiserweight. I mean, we're finding so many excuses instead of just saying, you know what? This guy is a boxing god. He's a genius on angles. He's a genius on fractions. Because if boxing was based just on pure muscles and the size of your chest, every bodybuilder in the world would be a world champion.

16:45Most of what happens is in here. And there are no muscles inside your head. It's mucus and little other stuff. It's tricky inside your brain. Trust me, chappers. And that's the stuff. That's what wins fights. And Usyk wins fights with fractions of inches. He's just a half inch closer or he's a half inch further away. He's a genius to watch. And he's a great character. I trust you. I don't want you to operate on me, but I trust you. I'm cheap. And available. Thank you, Gabby. Thank you.

17:16Mark Pougatch:And on the flip side, for those people who might be listening to this after the fight, of course, if Daniel wins, then Lennox Lewis was the last British underspeak heavyweight champion in 1999. You know, you, I'm sure, were around that era and that time when he was fighting Evander Holyfield. Tyson, oh. You know what? I thought that period, that 90s, was a great decade. We get the early Ricky. We get Nassim Hamid. We get early Joe Kowzaki. We get Frank Bruno in glory. Then we get Lennox Lewis in glory. We rule the boxing world. And the boxing's taking place mostly in Great Britain, apart from Lennox Lewis's fights.

17:53I thought that was a great period. But we've had a five - or six-year revolution in heavyweight boxing. You know, we've been outside. In the 70s, we didn't go outside. In the 80s, we went outside a couple of times. In the 90s, we went outside a couple of times. But this last six or seven years, we've been outside about 10 times with crowds in excess of 70 ,000. Anthony Joshua, here's a little fact for you. And if this was the end of the show, it's a great ending. So maybe you want to put it in later. I'm just helping the guys out. It's like, do you know there's 17 people in the production room here?

18:2117. I'm telling you. Buncee, there's normally two. They've all come for you. I've never seen so many people. It's outrageous. Anyway, this is a true story, Chappers. the most watched boxer in history, that means actual human beings watching him fight in history, isn't any of the greats like Dempsey and Marciano or Ali. The most watched fighter in history is Anthony Joshua. More people have paid to go through the turnstile to watch Anthony Joshua than any man or woman in boxing history because he's had several in a row 80 ,000 fights, You know, 80 ,000 plus fights. It's quite ridiculous. We are living, we're living in cherished times, boys and girls.

19:03We really are.

19:04Mark Pougatch:This is the first time in history that this will be an undisputed, all belts being fought for in the UK. Absolutely. Because when Muhammad Ali defended his world title in 1966, he had two fights. That was just one version of the title. And when Tim Witherspoon came over to let Frank Bruno have a crack, it was just one version of a title. When Lennox Lewis won the title and came back and beat Frank Bruno, it's just one version. Ditto David Hay, ditto Tyson Fury against Dillian White. This is it. This is the first time. First time it's a full, undisputed heavyweight title fight in Great Britain.

19:43And we've been putting on heavyweight championship fights for over 100 years. So it is history. It is history. I mean, I just want to tell, I want to go out on a soapbox in Trafalgar Square and do a little bit of preaching. I've got no problem with that.

19:57Mark Pougatch:You're only around the corner. Exactly. I've just had WhatsApps from 17 people saying this is where we should end it.

20:08That didn't come in 10 minutes ago, did it?

20:13Mark Pougatch:Always a pleasure to see you, Buncee. Have a fantastic weekend. Enjoy it. And hopefully it'll cut above the noise of what Chappas is off to now, which is Rory on the march at Royal Portrush. Yeah, well, no comment on that one because that's quite special as well. See you later. See you, team. The Sports Agents. Hey, man, you hungry? Let's order delivery. Yeah, I was thinking… Italian. Burgers? Oh. Game night, just got tense. Two bros on different sides of the fence. Burgers or pasta tonight. Why can't we have food without the fight? With Wonder, you can combine 20 restaurants in one delivery, so no one has to settle.