What makes Mexico 'INVINCIBLE' at the Azteca & Maresca's Man City - The Sports Agents

0:00Put it this way, if you were to have watched that game as a neutral, without all the history of England and some of the failures and stuff that they've had, would you see the game in the same way? And the thing is, you probably wouldn't. I didn't believe. I'll tell you that right now. Did you not? I was starting to be a disbeliever. Oh dear. That, to me, was the start of a great story about a successful run to potentially lift the whole thing. Mexico at the Azteca. Let's just build this up for what it is. This is the hardest game that can be played in this tournament. All those players that play in that game will remember that game for the rest of their lives.

0:31Did you basically just call Lionel Messi the James Milner of Argentina? You know what I mean?

0:39This is a global production.

0:48Hello and welcome to the Sports Agents. Now, of course, we're going to be getting into England today. No chappers. Nedham's coming on in just a moment. And we're also going to bring you some inside intel on Manchester City's new manager Enzo Maresca. We're talking World Cup cult heroes as Cape Verde's Vozinha prepares to face off against the one and only Lionel Messi of Argentina. And with Mexico at the Azteca up next for England, we're looking back on what happened last time. The men's team played at one of the most iconic venues in world football. Nedam Anua, how are you? Superb, Gabby. How are you?

1:22Yeah, very good. I'm feeling today relieved, actually. Relieved? How come? Well, I didn't believe. I'll tell you that right now. Did you not? I was starting to be a disbeliever. Oh, dear. Dear, oh, dear. Did you always believe? Yeah, I always believed. I don't know whether this is a good thing or a bad thing, but for me, first, I'm not as emotionally attached to the team being as successful. like I like certain players on the team and so on but because in my life there have been times where I've not really had that connection Should we just declare we're talking about England-Congo obviously Well we could have been talking about a different game but yeah that's a very good point that's very well done, that's a very experienced broadcaster there but I think so when it comes down to these tournaments I do find it quite hard to talk about England in particular because being in England it means that people always judge them based on their own expectations and anxieties as opposed to relative to the rest of the teams in the tournament and so on so all these issues are they've got to pull right back or it's a pull this or it's a pull that I say well talk me through Spain talk me through the Germany talk me through Germany talk me through say what were Portugal like when they drew that game nil-nil like a lot of teams have their issues I think France and possibly Argentina are probably the two that look a bit clear right now but England going through I watched I watched the game I was watching the game and I thought they are the better side in this moment they created enough chances to where And more often than not, they will score one.

2:44And if they score one, they will score two. And it happened. And it's a bit boring to say because it's not really great for the storyline. But in some ways, it was as expected, wasn't it? Something you said there as well resonates with what Harry Kane said at the end when he's been asked multiple times, what did you say in your huddle? And he said, I told them that we have to enjoy this because other teams and he pointed to other teams, other teams look like they enjoy their victories. And I think he probably had seen Norway the night before and thought, like, they're celebrating that. Like, they've celebrated, you know, kind of winning a semi-final.

3:14And actually, the point he was making was it's difficult to win World Cup games, knockout games. So, therefore, instead of England pretending that they are the out-and-out favourites, they shouldn't celebrate until they win the whole thing, celebrate in the moment for that game. And then get your head down and get ready for the next game. Are you in that school of thought? Oh, thousand percent. But I think one of the issues that Harry has and other people have is the sheer number of celebration police in England is almost infinite. So, see, why are they celebrating? They just beat DR Congo. Well, what should they do?

3:46What should they do? They've come back from 1-0 down. They're a long way from home. A lot of time, money, emotion, fatigues have been invested into this moment, and they've made it through to the next round. Harry is talking about the importance of going through those next rounds, And he, for as good as years, I think another big asset is his experience. So when he says that, he can probably look back at times when he didn't enjoy the moment. But as we've seen through this tournament, every team is celebrating those moments. You had Mbappe when he was coming off the other day. You had Didier Deschamps bowing to him.

4:16These are big moments that galvanise groups, teams, support staff, fans, everything. So I'm glad that he said that because I think he means it. And when he means it, I think people will follow. And of course, he's the story of the game. and he will know as you said there what it's like in tournaments when England have not been allowed to kind of almost show their emotions but was there a moment at all in that game especially in the first half where that old fashioned thing that we thought Gareth Southgate had got rid of that old kind of like cloak of the heaviness of the shirt did you worry for a little bit at all that that was there no I didn't and again maybe this is one of my issues I think in terms of this planetary side of things at times is I can be quite like cold about things i just watch it for what it is because come the end of the game if you were put it this way if you were to have watched that game as a neutral without all the history of england and some of the failures and stuff that they've had would you see the game in the same way and the thing is you probably wouldn't and i think for those players and those who were involved on the field like dr congo did a great job to get to that position through going through qualifying some tough qualifying games and you know in the group stages and to what to be here england were creating enough chances to where i thought it was going to happen because the quality of play that they have, whether it's Kane, Bellingham or others, is always going to give them opportunity and I think for Congo to win the conditions have to be perfect for them to win, whereas for England they don't so I wasn't having those doubts as such and I think realistically, for all the games where they are the favourite and they are the protagonist I think it looks a certain way which maybe some people don't love but they are the better team, they were the better team and they won the game and it's not really a surprise to me And of course it takes special players to keep England out and when that attack was working actually quite well in the second half and and passy the goalkeeper had some spectacular moments that were then acknowledged by england yeah for sure and you know to be do you know what this is a bit like is like at the end of every season say for example if we talk about the premier league the goalkeeper that makes the most saves plays for the team that's probably lost the most games because he's had to make the most saves because of the pressure that he's under so i thought the goalkeeper was exceptional yesterday i thought disappointing he probably could have done better for the harry game first goal given some of the saves he's made beforehand but he's still a hero he's still a hero for that team to keep them in the game the way that they did and also look at the fact we're talking about who was the best player for them we'll say the goalkeeper so what does that mean for how the game was really going so yeah there's a huge sense of pride for the way they competed against these superstars from front to back of england and you know on a different day maybe they get a better result but for this tournament football i'm going to just find a way to get through the rounds as we've seen with them you know participating in the last two european championship finals gabby exactly but and there always has to be one um for all that i mean and you have kind of just touched on it slightly england's defense which is the area and right back is the area with um with rice ending up there that is going to be talked about probably ad nauseum over the next few days yeah for sure and this goes back to my original point where we judge England in particular according to our expectations not the reality of say the challenges that will face them because going to play against Mexico which you know I'm so keen to talk about let's get on to it I'll be one second I apologise audience which I'm so keen to talk about you can say well it's not the best right back and so on and so forth but people probably couldn't name five or six players left in a tournament that would cause England such significant issues that they will regret not having a specialist there I think that position is part of the bigger process and I think they can make do with what they have and you know still be successful.

7:49Okay Mexico at the Azteca let's let's just build this up for what it is because I think you know a lot of people are Mexico or what you know how hard can they well how hard can they be when you're playing them at 2 ,200 meters in a stadium that they have rarely lost in with a home crowd who are beyond fanatical in a city that will literally not let England sleep in the 24 hours beforehand. That to me is the hallmark of like, oh it's the start of a great story about a successful run to potentially lift the whole thing because you travelled to that place and you found a way to win and I think that's, this result against DR Congo for England is one which raises belief even though people expected them to win, it's the manner in which they did it the sort of fight they needed to show to be able to do it against an incredibly competitive DR Congo side and now all these issues that people are speaking about for Mexico who are you know they've got the home advantage they have the altitude there's like the pollution in the air you've got the fans who will be outside their hotels like you still know in your heart of hearts that England are good enough to be able to overcome that adversity because the Mexico team is a very good team it's not one of the favorites for the whole tournament England's still going to be arriving there in my opinion as favorites and some of the issues in terms of attitude and something from a physical perspective I'm sure for the influence and the money that England have.

9:08They've tried to probably put them in hyperbaric chambers and give them all the science to help them be able to compete at that level. But you still have to play the game. And I think if England are wise enough and experienced enough to just play the game that's in front of them, then I think it will be tough, but it won't be impossible. But I think we're sort of, to a certain extent, making it sound like it is impossible to almost protect the emotions of those that think it might go wrong. Of course, of course. You know what I mean? But again, the England team, in my opinion, is better than the Mexico team.

9:34Mexico have had really good moments, but they've not been great, they've not been perfect. And they are making history if they continue to go into the tournament. But I love it just because if I was playing now and if I was playing at World Cup, all those players that play in that game will remember that game for the rest of their lives. Because the noise will be like unlike anything else they've heard before. Most people have probably never played once in Mexico. They've never played to a crowd that have that level of passion. Never played at altitude, never played in those conditions. And it's at a World Cup.

10:00This is peak football storytelling. Iconic, yeah, iconic. Well, they know these players won't have been alive when Maradona was busy beating England in a World Cup back in 1986, but they will have been told the stories, you know, and they know their football folklore. And we'll get on to Maradona in just a moment, but on altitude, if we can, I know you've played, when you were playing in the MLS, you've played at fairly high peaks, haven't you? Let me correct you. One of the few times I've ever worked with you was not fairly high. it was high okay it was high it was um i think it was 1300 meters yeah okay compare that to playing in the uk it was high gabby i went over there to to join them uh after i signed and i was told by my um fitness coach um henry that like it'll give you a few weeks to sort of get your legs under you you know what i mean give you some time to adapt i was like i'll be fine like i've played most of life this is nothing gabby every day was a struggle for a very long time a very long time and that was just not just playing that's how do you feel in afternoon how do you feel when you walk up those stairs just a little bit too fast how do you feel at night time you know these this altitude is a key factor but only so if you've got a good team and for my real salt lake team when i was there like i loved playing in the summer when we had a good side because you could almost guarantee that we were going to go on a winning run at home we'd go through long spells and defeated because for many like also the temperature was like 35 to 40 degrees which also helps but there's a point where people come over and they know it's going to be tough but they can't predict how tough it's going to be and as soon as the game starts to enter a phase which suits the team that have the physical advantage then you start to see the suffering from the opposition and some teams would suffer to a result but it was never as simple as they anticipated and there is a sense of like ego like no it will be fine i will be fine as if you've ever been altitude you're fine until you're not And then the moment you're not, you can't look to the side and ask for help because the opposition can be right on top of you.

11:59I haven't performed in a sporting sense at altitude, but I did do the Inca Trail. So I was up in Machu Picchu, which is obviously the Andes. And yeah, like you say, everything is affected. Every single thing is affected, isn't it? In terms of your bodily functions and how you digest. But presumably, as you say, they're in and out for one. So you can't even acclimatize in a day. there's no point kind of even thinking about that but they will have done whatever they can with hyperbaric chambers and you know exercising with oxygen masks and you know to try and give them a sense of what it is going to be like will they will they at all try and alter the game plan well too cool i think they have to i think they have to and i think they have to certainly but i think they have to just because if they make the game a high-paced game it will not suit them let's not say that mexico that is the only way that they can play because that's obviously not the case but for england if they're going to go and press high and press high early are they able to maintain it the likelihood is that they won't be able to so maybe this is the type of game for several reasons not necessarily just because of the altitude but from a noise standpoint like these players most of them will probably never have played in a stadium where the amount of jeers and whistling and booing that will be given to them every time they have the ball you know that like that's such a that's such a rarity like we could be i've played in some games where you It could be 10 meters away from someone and you're trying to give them information and they cannot hear you.

13:22That's what this game is going to be. So in terms of understanding your teammates, understanding how to, the correct decisions to make in a game, trying to manage it. I think if England get through this test, I think they're ticking like a lot of boxes. Because I could make the case. I could make the case. This is the hardest game that can be played in this tournament because you are playing an away game. Like you're playing, you could play the US, you could play Canada. but the way that the Mexican fans are the way those conditions are make it so that like this game is incredibly unique but I still believe England will find a way to do it but I'm looking forward to see how that is except for the fact it's one in the morning Yes, we need a plan I don't know I can't decide whether I'm going to go to bed at nine and set an alarm because if I try and stay up until one I'll start snoozing and then I'll be grumpy no we can't have that we cannot have you grumpy we can't use alcohol you know this is not a time for trying to you know drink your way through tequila what about tequila slammers through the evening just to try and get you talking about for the england team or for you gabby that's the thing but one of the descriptions i heard about what it's like to play at that kind of altitude is having a plastic bag around your head and that stayed with me that kind of because you think oh my gosh that's so it is suffocating i guess isn't it that feeling you just can't get enough air into your lungs there'll be oxygen tanks in the the changing rooms weren't there for them at halftime the drinks breaks even though it'll only be around we're seeing 23 24 degrees will be very very gratefully received i imagine yes yes yes this is true and to be fair that back analogy i see it now now that's now that you've said that like i i have felt that before obviously because we had altitude when i was playing in mls it didn't mean we were going to win every single game because we still had to make the game our type of game but i think with the quality that england have if they show enough like personality on and off the ball and character and have a real genuine belief and understanding of what they need to do and they stick to the plan it will be tough regardless because for mexico like the football culture in mexico is everything to them that's why they'll be outside england's hotel room playing drums to whatever time in the morning like we're thinking oh do we stay up till one to watch the game they're staying up till like two three in the morning just to play drums outside like the opposition's hotel so again it's it's an incredible moment and I think it says a lot about the passion but also the story that will be written should they come out on the other side of it.

15:48So let's go back down you know the history books in 1986 and that World Cup where England had two experiences of the Azteca they beat Paraguay their 3-0 and then in the that was in the round of 16 then in the quarterfinal they came up against Argentina and an Argentina with Maradona who were South America's team I mean this was you know this isn't just playing a country in South America they were and he was an icon of the continent yeah this is do you know 86 I've got this sort of like subconscious bias towards 1986 and maybe do you know what it's because I was born in 86 so I wasn't alive for this but in terms of that sort of football history and you know just loving the game looking back at all those at the time VHS's of World Cups which then turned to DVDs of the World Cups which now turned into YouTube shorts of World Cups.

16:40You know, you can see how significant that game and that era was because for somebody who essentially, in Diego Maradona, to have cheated a nation, but also scored the goal of the century in the same game, I think it says a lot about his legacy and how some people look back because Diego Maradona was a god. He was a god not just to Argentina. The fact you said for all of South America is remarkable in itself because you will never really find that level of love from a continental standpoint because maradona being successful usually comes at the expense of those who are in the surrounding areas those who have the same aspirations but yeah the the hand of god the fact you call it the hand of god almost spins over time like it's a positive oh it had to be diego he is a god everything is great like i've recently watched the france documentary on netflix about raymond dominic and the qualifying through tiara Henry's hand that was not the hand of God against the Irish perceived in two very different ways but it's such an iconic game you can still talk to Shea Given about that and they're not over it and I understand it and I understand that completely and I wonder how many of the players understand that sort of history of the Azteca understand the history of you know that game I just can't imagine that Jude Bellingham's dad has not sat down with him at some point and you know I don't know how old is Jude Bellingham's dad?

18:05He's probably Yeah He's probably like not too far from my age so he's like yeah I remember it really well His dad told him His dad told him Yeah I love it though because like history has been made there like real football in history you know with that moment from Aradona and just that World Cup itself generally and I I cannot express enough how excited I am about this game not necessarily just from like an English standpoint but like I can see the story I can see what it means like if Mexico win that's one of the biggest results in their history in that stadium if England win it's one of the biggest wins they've had at any World Cup that could potentially propel them to go a lot further and again for those who are into the football history side of things on that very field we've seen the goal of the century from Diego Maradona and without that and without him maybe someone like Messi for example wouldn't be perceived the way that he is today by the Argentinian team but there is a difference in the way he is idolized isn't there it's just ever so subtly i don't know there's something is it because he's so clean cut and he's so perfect in every way it seems you know with his beautiful family and his he's very decent behavior and he's he doesn't get into any scrapes he's he's not associated with you know particularly bad behaviors his weight doesn't fluctuate he's just he's just kind of perfect isn't he cookie cutter perfect Messi and and there's a there's a flawed genius to Maradona does he resonate more with did you did you basically just call um Lionel Messi the James Milner of Argentina is that is this the comparison we're talking about on sports agents today you know it's it's interesting you say that because speaking to um like working around the world and so on you get a chance to speak to people from different countries and you see how they perceive certain people and through our lifetimes it's funny because at one stage Messi was perceived as a failure in Argentina because if you notice the vast majority of his goals have been in the last two world cups you know by a country mile so some of those other years were like the magnificent failures of somebody who could never emulate and have the same level of importance as Maradona this is Messi I believe that retired from international football as well only to come back exactly so listen sometimes you just need a break but then but then he's come back and he's an icon.

20:26He's in that team and all those players adore him. Everyone in the crowd adores him. You could argue so many people from around the world adore him. And the way that he does it, if you saw him, he just looks like this normal guy that's just walking around the place. His humility, but then he's almost like God-like presence coming together is something that shouldn't exist. And I think for Maradona, the way that he was suited the moment. I think the way that Messi is now suits this moment because with Messi you have the comparisons to Ronaldo and you have people making real big cases that he shouldn't be in the team because he's too old.

21:01Nobody mentions Messi's age until he does something good and then you say, look how good he is because of his, like, at this age. Whereas Ronaldo is like, well, he didn't do this, but that's because of his age. Messi is like, he's a god. The way that he, in football, the way he sees the game is very unique to him. And when you see that level of, like, uniqueness or whatever the correct word is, you think of the likes of Maradona. Without Maradona, the adoration that he had, I don't think Messi's adoration would have been the same. And maybe, even for all the quality that he has, he would have been moved on from the Argentina scene much longer ago when he wasn't scoring the goals that he was expected to at the World Cup.

21:39I think when you look down the history of World Cups, there always emerges in every World Cup an unlikely World Cup hero. And in Argentina and Cape Verde coming together, we have one of those, Vizinha, the goalkeeper for Cape Verde, who has made some spectacular saves and has become an icon and has grown from a kind of tiny 50 ,000 Instagram following up to, I think on the last count, 17 and a half million. As you do. Yeah. I mean, this is what the World Cup could do for you, influencers. Practice hard. As you do, yeah.

22:14And that is going to be, I mean, they're going to Messi's house, you know, they're in Miami. This is where he plays his club football. So, you know, the whole of Argentina will be there, but also Cape Verde will be there as well. And it'll be some coming together, won't it? It could produce another great, iconic World Cup moment. Listen, it very much could do. But I feel like Vazinha's momentum might be dying after this game, if we're going to be completely honest. I think they've been incredible on that time when he helped keep that clean sheet. And, you know, it wasn't even about the performance.

22:48he said at the end of the game when you see tears streaming down the face of somebody who most of us don't know like his teammates know him the people from the country know him but we don't know this guy's 40 years old 1986 by the way it's all connected it's all connected and it meant everything to him there's something about these world cups where you're reminded for as much as you have people who aspire to win the whole thing you have people who aspire to just have a moment there and they represent far more people than we realise and Vazinha an icon for for Kate Verdon I'm sure today after the game's done is going to be asking for a messy shirt the same as everybody else but I've just got this feeling he's going to be picking the ball out of the back of his net once or twice possibly a few more times does he ask him then when he's picking the ball out the net yeah it's tricky isn't it it's tricky but I suppose this is maybe when the 17 million followers like say oh do you want to do a collab post let's swap shirts I'll hold this so you can say you're Do you want to tag you, Leo?

23:42But, you know, it is interesting with Ozenio because there have been so many other, like, iconic players and moments across all the different sort of World Cups. And for me personally, you know, whether it's looking at the likes of being born in Nigeria, whether it's the likes of, like, Roger Miller. Yeah, yeah, Roger Miller was the one that sits out for me from 1990. Exactly, or like Yakini in 94, first goal for Nigeria at a World Cup. And that's the World Cup that I remember more so from a Nigerian perspective. but the one that sticks out the most in my mind was the one in 2002 because I'm revealing my age a bit here but as a positive I'm going to use it as a positive I'd just been given a break to do my GCSEs and that's when the World Cup was beginning and in doing so I'm watching that one in South Korea and Japan with time and seeing say Papa Bouba Diop and that Senegal team and seeing them win against France this is Papa Bouba Diop that died six years ago with muscle neuron disease, I think it was.

24:40But around that time, from 2002, I would then make my debut in 2004, and the Premier League is now full of a lot more Senegalese players. And I know that there would have been a springboard from seeing them play at that World Cup. And what that result means to them is still probably one of the biggest results that they've ever had. And to see him score through a chaotic goal, the ball drops to his feet, they all dance and celebrate in the corner. And at the time, we mentioned before about celebration police. like when people score goals like that and celebrate the way that they do the celebration police get muted on their microphones because nobody cares real enjoyment so they were beating the world cup holders as well and that was that was even more you know if you beat senegal obviously played france in this world cup if you if you beat the current france team that probably means you're going to win the world cup in this world cup but that was yeah it was a beautiful moment and in a continent that never hosted the World Cup before.

25:35It had so many ingredients to be a moment in time, didn't it? A quick reminder to catch up on our previous episodes on YouTube, Global Player or wherever you get your podcasts. And make sure you subscribe or follow and leave a review while you're there. After the break, Guillaume Balaguet on what makes new Manchester City manager Enzo Maresca tick.

25:58Enzo Maresca was always Manchester City's first option from the moment he became available. There were two people who recognised earlier on that he was a manager capable of handling a club the size of Manchester City while continuing the legacy of Pep Guardiola, former director of football Chiqui Begiristain and Pep himself. Chiqui has been heard saying that if he had to start another project somewhere else and Pep was not available, he'd go for Enzo. Guardiola, who was asked about his replacement once he decided to leave City, remembers very well the first time they sat down to talk football.

26:32Pep had different categories of greetings for the many people who wanted to visit him, from a simple handshake to staying for lunch after training. With Enzo, lunch became a coffee and another and then another and then hours of conversation to the point that everyone else had left by the time they finished. Enzo did a great job as Manchester City under-21 manager winning the league for the first time and it was Pep's choice to make him his assistant during the treble winning season even though he knew it would not last long because Enzo's objective was always to learn more about the methodology and applied as a number one.

27:11After that season, Enzo received offers from both the Premier League and Leicester City at the Championship. Pett suggested he chose the Premier League because it is so difficult to get out of the Championship, but Enzo was not afraid of the challenge. And the rest is history. What has Enzo Mareska been doing since the turn of the year? Mostly resting, actually, in his house in London with his family. But there were also trips to the Maldives, Salerno, Marbella. He's done AI courses. He's been reading the cards, discourse of method. He's spent hours talking sports and leadership with volleyball coach Julio Velasco and basketball man Ettore Messina, two geniuses of the trade.

27:58And as always, he's been watching games, obsessively studying how the tactical game is evolving. But the moment his next move was confirmed, he went straight to work alongside Hugo Viana, making some changes in a squad that has got a lot of potential, but did not win the league the last two seasons and need to improve in Europe. He's not just a head coach, he's a manager in the Guardiola mould. That means full power over player decisions, style of play, the entire technical staff. He is the boss. Where does his footballing identity actually come from? He learned a lot from Mancelotti. He was his manager.

28:39Pellegrini, he played under him as well, and then assisted Pellegrini at West Ham. But his mind blew up as a play at Sevilla. He remembers one specific Guardiola's Barcelona game where his team Sevilla barely touched the ball. That's the moment positional play got under his skin. From there, he obsessively studied Guardiola's Barcelona, Bayern, City. What's interesting is that he doesn't see positional play as fixed, same as Guardiola. He sees it as evolving, moving, transforming itself, constantly adapting. And he's obsessive about detail because for him, that's where the gap to the elite actually leaves.

29:17So how does he work day to day? Long days, early starts, late finishes, but sure, meetings, 10-15 minutes, brief videos, and more importantly, no rigid routine. His whole philosophy comes down to one phrase, read the moment of the team. He adapts training around the calendar, fatigue, emotional state, competitive load. Some days it's all video, some days it's freedom of a meeting, some days tactics get compressed into a single session. Enzo Mareska is calm, but can raise his voice if need be, analytical, meticulous, but never dogmatic. He knows what he wants, but having been a player, he reads well what the players need to.

29:59So fascinating insight there from Guillaume Balaguet on Enzo Maresca and how he has grown and how he has found, you know, the things that kind of stimulate him as a football manager and where he's found his methodology, I guess. Did you know all of that already? No, I didn't, to be honest. And through everything that, you know, has been reported and Guillaume was sort of alluding to there as well. the thing that stands out the most to me from a perspective of somebody who does support Manchester City, like I'll put my bias straight to the front, isn't the fact that, say, Guardiola likes him, is the fact that Chiqui Bigerestan likes him.

30:34I think Chiqui Bigerestan, in terms of important figures at Man City, he has been as important, and you could argue maybe more important to City across his time, because he helped Guardiola be able to be himself, and to express the way that he wants to play, and the way he wants the football club to be, and his judgment if you look at people who've worked alongside him they trust him with anything and everything and for him to believe that maresco was the right person to replace somebody who is an icon in guardiola for the club i think that's very very significant so i'll be interested to see what he's like when he has the sort of reins but then also i like the um i like the fact that his approach isn't as rigid as some people would have it seem when he's talking about some days is this some days it's that.

31:19I like that. Yeah, previously in terms of, do you know what, I'll make the point, I'll say Italian football culture. It can be very, very rigid in terms of this is how we do things and we will not budge from that. This is like the culture that we have. It's doing them well on the world stage, isn't it? Do you know what, I can't even say anything because they won the Euros. Like the fact that that just exists, the global stage though, I'm sure they'd quite like to have been at a World Cup in the last three. Yeah, without question. but this is that's an interesting point and I'd love to talk about that in the future as well because there are questions being asked about the Italian way not least of all by one of our peers in Cesc Fabregas who gets questions why do you not sign Italian players and it's because they only know how to do one thing and play one particular style and he doesn't believe that is the future as such so for Moresca to have been under Guardiola to have been the places he's been to to have had the career that he's had and to understand that you know you need to be adaptable to be successful it's like he reads which Guillaume said, reads the room and the mood of what is needed that day, you know, which is very hard when you've got, you know, big squads with lots of different, you know, personalities.

32:27But if it doesn't suit everybody all the time, but some people are getting what they want when they need it, that's kind of the best you can hope for, isn't it? Because, you know, you're not going to get what everybody needs every single day. And I think so, it made me think wider about management. I was thinking about management in the BBC and management in kind of all kinds of places that I work, thinking that's such an interesting philosophy because yeah it really is also saying i don't know every day what the right thing is i'm gonna you know i'm gonna learn as well and adapt and adaptability i think is is a very underrated quality i think that's the that's the biggest thing because adaptability i think comes alongside a sense of humility as well because there are some people who will sell you that they know the answer to everything and the moment you see that they don't you'll never see them the same again and i think um from his time in terms of what he was at chelsea there were certain things which he said which I didn't really like and initially is when the squad was massive and he was asked about like what does it mean for Sterling and these guys says listen my father's a fisherman you know he has a tough life these players not tough life I didn't really like that too much felt a little bit insensitive however when he then left Chelsea look at the way that Kaiseido Fernandes and Kukurea and other people like this speak of him they speak very very highly and they say that he should never have left and I think when you see players of that influence have an affinity towards a manager that from the outside probably wasn't seen or respected in the same way that those players within the space did it, that it means it's more than just the tactics.

33:52It means there's a person in there that can manage and understand those types of players. And I think going into a place like City, that man management side of things will be very, very important because the tactical intensity of La Cagliola might never be topped. But if you have your tactics and you also have the personable side, then I'll go a long way. And sometimes as well for those players, even though they will have loved working with Pep Guardiola, a change can be good, can't it? Yeah. And it can refresh everybody. Let me, without trying to sound negative, I'm just trying to be realistic here.

34:24Not every player would have loved working under Pep Guardiola. I think every player would have respected him, but not every player would have loved him because there were tons of players who weren't getting picked on a week-to-week basis. But that counts the same for like a Wenger, a Selex Ferguson, like a Klopp, an Arteta. Because you know, like there aren't many players that will be out of a side that believe that they should be out of a side. Everyone believes they should be playing. So I won't love the manager that's not picking me. But I think from Guardiola's standpoint, the respect that he had in the football, which he brought out of some of those players, is very significant.

34:53And I think from a Chelsea perspective, Maresca did a better job than many people anticipated, not least of all because he came, I believe, from Leicester City. And he did such a good job at Chelsea that most people forgot that he was a manager in the Championship not too long ago. So it'll be interesting to see how he performs. But your overall approving of that appointment? Listen, if I could go back in time, I'd go back to Guardiola's second season and just relive those previous nine years. But unfortunately, things have to change, Gabby. So I am at peace that somebody coming in has been there before.

35:22And I don't expect them to be as successful as they have been in that time. But I think if Chiqui Biguristan likes him, I think he's got a good chance of being successful. And change is afoot again at Nottingham Forest. Pereira apparently gone, well he has gone but apparently was under pressure Who knew? Who knew? And Glasner is the man being tipped to replace him, so that would be five managers in a calendar year, I believe, since last September It's impressive And you know what you're getting into there, don't you? You're going into a certainly what should we call it? A volatile work environment?