Who's to blame for West Ham's relegation? | Michail Antonio on Bowen's future & England's 'Egos' - The Sports Agents

0:00Nedum Onuoha:If the world were like a Sleep Number mattress, everything would adapt for your comfort. Because as your life changes and your body changes, Sleep Number mattresses adapt and shift to give you personalized comfort night after night. And now it's the final days of our Everything's on Sale event. Save up to$1 ,200 on mattresses. Our Memorial Day event ends Monday. To experience a whole new world of comfort, visit a Sleep Number store or go to sleepnumber.com. Sleep Number, to a good life's sleep.

0:32Nedum Onuoha:This is a Global Player original podcast. Are you lucky to be here? 100 % he really hit me in the gut, like tears were falling from my eyes. Do you want to be real? Yeah. Clubs treat players like me. Soon as you start getting stale, you get thrown away. My biggest worry was Potter. Not going to lie to you. I think they were too good to go down. I told David Moyes, my dad's funeral was happening. I asked for the day off. He asked me if I could come in and train in the morning and just go to the burial. I just feel like everybody needs to understand the West Ham way, the West Ham culture. Once you understand that, then you can build the club around the culture.

1:10What, how, where West Ham play. End of the day, Jared wants to play in the Premier League. He has the quality and the skills to play in the Premier League. I don't feel like the club should stop him. If West Ham didn't get relegated, he would be at the World Cup right now.

1:30Nedum Onuoha:Welcome to the Sports Agents. No Gabby for this one. Myself and Nedim, you all right? I'm so good. Gabby, I know this is still your seat. I promise you can have it back, but for now. No, no, no, don't do that. All right, it's mine then, Gabby. You're never coming back. No, exactly, because she will listen. She will be listening. Wherever she is in the world, she'll be listening. Hi, Gabby. Just keep her guessing. Hi, Gabby. Looking forward to seeing you again soon, hopefully.

1:56Nedum Onuoha:Have you recovered from an emotional week? Were you at the pet parade? It's been so tough, Shappers, honestly. You know what I mean? Realising that football has now stopped forever. But yeah, I didn't do the parade, but I went to the after party, which was at Co-op Live. Yes, at Co-op Live. And for people that don't live in Manchester, that is a massive, brand new gig venue that is right by the Etihad. It is not just one of the local co-ops where they had a goodbye party for it. Yeah, true, true. And to be honest, from my perspective, seeing the way that they presented that moment, they obviously had, well, obviously, they had the women's first team out there with their WSL title.

2:38They had the youth team with the Youth Cup winning trophy as well. And then the first team out there with two key players leaving. They've got the League Cup, the FA Cup, and Pep Guardiola leaving after 10 years. And to see everybody in the crowd, it wasn't just like newer fans. Some of these were older fans. And for the bit that it's for Guardiola, honestly, it was incredible to be there. and it was very much for City fans. For one of the few times in football, that's not for anybody else. It's for those people that wanted to be there to pay their respects. And for Guardiola, they brought out all the trophies that he's won since he's been in charge, which ended up being 20.

3:10Nedum Onuoha:They brought the community shields out, did they? Well, did Crystal Palace win three trophies this year? Or did they win two? No, they won three. All right, cool then, let's move on. So they brought out all these trophies, but with certain people involved. Like Vincent Kompany, the Bayern Munich manager, brings out a trophy to show what Guardiola's done, but I think what I loved the most was the biggest cheer was for Mike Somerby, one of the club's legends from yesteryear, who was physically limited in terms of how he could walk onto the stage, but he got a bigger cheer than, say, Erling Haaland did bringing out one of the Premier League trophies.

3:41It was great to be a part of as a City supporter.

3:44Nedum Onuoha:Also mentioned, this episode is all about Mikel Antonio, a former West Ham striker, will tell us what he thinks of the current state of the club and also, he's got to book out so many interesting aspects to his life and stories in that book and we'll talk about all of that with him as well, just one final one on City then, next season do you think you'll stay up? Ooh I think it's all about squad building isn't it and now the title is gone I imagine all his titles will go as well which means they'll put forward that under 18s youth team to try and stay up in the Premier League so I back them right now but when new facts come in I might change my mind.

4:19Nedum Onuoha:Sound like you're a worried man Very concerned yeah. All of our past episodes on YouTube Global Player or if you get your pods please subscribe, follow and leave us a review while you're there. Mikael thank you very much for joining us. There is so much to get into whether it be West Ham or your book which has got a glowing review from Nadim because he said to me before we started this I don't normally read but he has devoured your book haven't he? I promise you I don't normally read but to be able to read the perspective of a peer like I realised we've got lots of stuff that's not in common but lots of stuff that we do have in common from managers to players we've played against, even our time playing against each other.

4:56And to see another side of football, I've got to say, beautifully, beautifully written. And it's a great start to it as well. Thank you. Thank you. Now, to be honest, I've really enjoyed doing it. Like, end of the day, it's just my life, my story, everything I've been through. And a lot of people don't realise when people read a lot of players' books, it's mainly about everything they've lived, everything they've enjoyed. But I've not done that. I've indulged. I've given you my life, the good, the bad, and the ups and the downs.

5:27Nedum Onuoha:Before we get on to the process of doing the book, if not writing it, but telling somebody else your stories, we're recording this after Chris Apiis had won the Conference League, which they did last night beating Raya Vallecano, which is exactly the same tournament that West Ham won three years ago when they beat Fiorentina. When you see where West Ham are now compared to where they were then, are you surprised? To be honest, there's so many times in our league, in the league, when I was there, we had a couple of relegation scraps. So, like, it's not like something that West Ham were miles away from.

6:05Even the last year with David Moyes and I was there, we were close to a relegation scrap. So, even though we won the conference, we were down the bottom half. So, it was something that we always tiptoed around it a few times while we were there. I feel like the players and the quality that West Ham had this year I didn't think that they were I think they were too good to go down but obviously with the Premier League the quality that is in the league there's so much people that can win games and it's turning up every week and the fact that they managed to cut the deficit down from seven points was amazing I was going to say do you know at that time winning the Conference League any side lifting any silverware but lifting European silverware is so significant And I feel like the years before, I remember a point when Declan Rice was talking at the end of the season or the start of the next.

6:54His biggest disappointment was that you didn't qualify for the Champions League because you were very much in a race to do that. So how can it turn that quickly? Like you say, in some ways, you could see some signs. But what was the biggest sign to you? Biggest sign? My biggest worry was Potter. Not going to lie to you. Like, obviously, me and him didn't have much of a relationship because he came in after my car crash. but from the season before his stats and how he got the boys playing it wasn't the best obviously I was in and around it when I was going away to Dubai to do my rehab and coming back in the club it wasn't the best and then in the summer he chose to get rid of all the senior players so Lukasz Wabiatski me, Aaron Creswell Vlad Edson the players that are more like leaders and in that moment when he's done that Like, you know, like, you need to have some type of leaders.

7:50You need senior players in the changing rooms to try and lift boys or to be in there to speak to boys when things aren't going well. And obviously, he didn't start the season the best, and the club ended up getting rid of him. But before they managed to get rid of him, he got rid of so much leaders. And then two, three weeks later, he goes, we've got no leaders in the changing rooms. Like, it actually, it makes no sense. the club made a decision quite quickly to get rid of him but there was a lot to get rid of now so in that situation the new managers come in he didn't it wasn't able to sign his the players that he wanted to sign he had to try and get rid of players that he didn't want and it wasn't until january when he got to sign players and bring people in bring his own staffing in is when the

8:35Nedum Onuoha:club started to pick up again and it was too little too late do you think that sums up west West Ham in a nutshell, because I completely take your point with Graham Potter, but even going from Moyes to Lopetegui and Lopetegui not lasting that long, and I feel like I've been not banging this drum with West Ham, but having this discussion about West Ham a lot since their relegation, they've got the second highest average attendance in the Premier League. They are in the top 10 of Premier League clubs for revenue brought in and yet they more often than not seem to be scrabbling around not not necessarily in the Premier League table but scrabbling around for some kind of coherent plan.

9:22In my eyes being at the club I honestly I thought this is the problem the problem is that they never plan four five years six years ahead they're always planning for the season that's in front of them they're just like we'll focus this season and then that season ends we won't focus in this season that season ends like training grounds when we move changing training grounds we went from chadwell and the club was like we're building you a new training ground at Rush Green so we're all thinking it's gonna be a brand new building everything at the club we've gone we've now moved to the new club the new training ground and it was the exact same building all they've done is like knock down walls and every year they knock down walls and built another wall and different room into a different room and that's what it was every single year instead of just going and planning for the future so I just feel like they just need to be someone there to not think and just get things of a structure over a four five six year plan and then I reckon things would have been a lot better that way instead of just focusing on the club year by year by year do you have some sympathy for Nuno then

10:38Nedum Onuoha:in this situation given what you've described as the structure but also then arriving into a dressing room that had lost its leaders in the main because of its previous manager. Yeah, 100%. Like I said, he's come in to a squad that he possibly was struggling to deal with because he was struggling because he was hardly winning any games. So it wasn't until he managed to get his staff in and a few players that he felt was necessary in then he picked up. I'm going to ask you some pretty direct questions here. And as a player, former player of West Ham and so on, be as honest as you can be. Because you mentioned, for example, with Graham Potter, the leaders like yourself were moved on.

11:27But was that Graham Potter or was that the ownership making those sorts of decisions? Because you mentioned the training ground, for example. And if the owners thought that was the wrong thing to do, surely they would have pushed back themselves. So as I look at West Ham now, is Nuno the problem? Is it the players the problem? Or is it the very, very top? because we've seen in the last few games of the season and for the last few years, there's been so many protests about the ownership. Do you think that's the thing that needs to change more than anything else? Honestly, I couldn't give you a real answer to that because it's a bit of a mix and blend of everything.

12:00You can't fully blame the owners because if you look at what the owner has spent over the last few years, he has actually spent money. But obviously, it's not in the right places because obviously I feel like the chief execs and stuff like that that they're bringing in, it's not realising the culture of the club. I just feel like everybody needs to understand the West Ham way, the West Ham culture. Once you understand that, then you can build the club around the culture. What, how, where West Ham play. So I feel like bringing in Potter, who wanted to be young, and bringing young players and try and change the philosophy of how he wants to play, how West Ham wants to play.

12:47It's something that obviously everybody wanted, fans wanted, and that's why they got rid of David Moyes because they wanted a different way, they wanted prettier football. But before I came to West Ham, at the bowling ground, West Ham was always meant to be known to be nasty, resilient, graft, hard-working, Those were the culture. That's what the club was about. So trying to change that after West Ham being doing this for so many years, I just feel like you can't really come in and do that. I feel like you need to think about what the culture is and then work from there. And I think it's always going to work if you do that.

13:29Nedum Onuoha:Did you like playing at the London Stadium? And this has nothing to do with the fans, by the way, right? I meant that ground, that structure, the stands how they are, how far away from the pitch they are. Did you enjoy playing there? I actually did enjoy playing there. Not going to lie. The stadium was actually quite nice. The fans being away quite far, we would like the fans to be back on, obviously. At the bowling ground, the fans were top of view. The atmosphere was amazing. But the days where the fans were on it, like the game we played in the conference in Europa League against Lyon, mate the atmosphere in that game was unbelievable so we can't keep focusing on uh we're no longer at the bowling ground obviously we are at london stadium now this is what that's home now so we need to focus on that being home loving it and keep on moving forwards and obviously the pitch was amazing the changing rooms were massive it was good like the facilities were actually quite nice.

14:31It would be better if the fans were closer, 100%. But I did enjoy playing at the London Stadium. Do you know, I'm glad you said that because I feel like from our side of things now, we hear lots of opinions about whether the stadium's good or bad, but you never really hear it from anyone that's ever played there. And to add context to it, again, from my perspective, one of the grounds in Europe which is seen to have the best atmosphere is the Parc de France. And at the Parc de France, the fans are miles away from the field. And as Mikel said there, sometimes a stadium and how it feels can depend on, say, ultimately, that what's going on on the pitch, but the fans are always loud when something good's happening.

15:11I think I tried to mention the point that say when you were on that Conference League run, some of those nights would be the nights that as a player you'll never forget because the noise is so loud. You will hear 60 ,000 people. They could be a mile away and you will hear 60 ,000 people. But when things aren't going the way that they are, when there's almost like a sense of resentment towards certain things happening at the football club you see the apathy you sense it and it changes a little bit i don't think it's that the fans just completely dislike the stadium obviously they prefer to stay at their home what they know and no one likes change but i honestly believe it's how they've done it that is like i said it's the structure it's how they do things is the problem so at the bowling ground fans were sat with each other for 30 40 years they had the exact same season tickets for 30 40 years so it's always the same people selling the same people every year for 30 40 years they changed the stadium and then gave people sporadic tickets to let people buy season tickets and they dotted those people who were sat with each other for 30 40 years all around the stadium so they didn't think of the philosophy that these people had their seats we're going to move them to the new stadium and put them next to each other again that's the problem that they yeah there was no organization they just moved them from their home relocated them and then spread them all over the place i i you are honestly so spot on people

16:47Nedum Onuoha:that run sporting organisations sometimes don't realise that importance of when you have season tickets of it being the same people that you see every fortnight who you sit next to you you grow up together you you grieve together you know you know there are people who when I used to have a season ticket you know people there were people who'd be around me who wouldn't be there then the following season and you grieve together and then you have your your moments pre and post match where you are in the same cafe pub whatever all of that has disappeared yeah for sure you don't get the same feeling meeting in zara in westfield it's true and to be honest as is the case of most things football related and on this scale it's not about whether you can it's about whether you should and to be able to cut a corner and move people just place them anywhere as he said you know that's something that they could do and it was an easy option.

17:40But the right option would have been the more difficult one to make sure that they could still cultivate that sort of environment, keep those people in that space. And you bring over those good memories and a sense of familiarity. But instead, I think, as we've probably seen with West Ham over the years, it's the wrong decisions over and over.

17:54Nedum Onuoha:Let me ask you both. If you were a West Ham player now and there is interest in you and you have dropped down to the championship, and I'm not asking you to speak for Jarrod Bowen here, Mikael, but he would be the most interesting one out of the players who may or may not be available for transfer. He's given everything for West Ham. He's a leader, which we've talked about. He's captained them. His father-in-law's a West Ham fan. How difficult a decision has he got, do you think? How difficult a decision have some of those other players got? Do you want to be real? Let's just be real. It's not a difficult decision.

18:36like it's a comment that I've made my whole entire career I was like players clubs treat players like me like it is what it is soon as you start getting stale you get thrown away so why can't you make your own decision like end of the day Jared wants to play in the Premier League he has the quality and the skills to play in the Premier League like if you really think about it he had the quality to be in a top four club before them getting relegated anyway. So, I don't feel like the club should stop him. He didn't get called up to England during this World Cup because West Ham got relegated. Because I felt if West Ham didn't get relegated and they managed to have finished in the top ten, he would be at the World Cup right now.

19:27100 % in my eyes. So, that has prevented him from going. And then there's a lot of players at the club now that haven't got the connection with the club like Jared or I have. So they are all going to be like, no, I want to play in the Premier League, so I'm not going down. So a lot of people are going to be running for the woods during this period because everyone has their career and they want to just focus on their career and themselves. And football is basically an individual sport played by multiple people. whereas the club care about business so the club's eyes they're like nope we need to think about a business we need to try and get back as soon as possible so they're going to try and keep people but then they're also going to need to sell as well because without selling they're going to be in a lot of debt so I think they need to round up like 100 million anyway so players are going to be sold it's just which players get out first you'd agree would you having been relegated twice to the Queen's Park Rangers with a bunch of new players and stuff like that, yes.

20:31People do try and get away as quickly as possible. Some try to get away before the season's even finished. And I think from a West Ham perspective, the players that are there, some do have a connection with the club, as he's described. And for others, this is brand new to you. So as a consequence, you getting up and leaving means nothing because essentially the time you were there, also in the grand scheme, things meant nothing as well.

20:55Nedum Onuoha:If the world were like a sleep number mattress, everything would adapt for your comfort. Because as your life changes and your body changes, Sleep Number mattresses adapt and shift to give you personalized comfort night after night. And now it's the final days of our Everything's On Sale event. Save up to$1 ,200 on mattresses. Our Memorial Day event ends Monday. To experience a whole new world of comfort, visit a Sleep Number store or go to sleepnumber.com. Sleep Number, to a good life's sleep.

21:29Nedum Onuoha:let's talk about the book mikhail humans not robots when elite sport and real life collide it's out on the 4th of june you've talked about the process of doing it of telling your stories um was the process of doing it cathartic did it did it help you yeah it definitely did obviously i'm a person where i do therapy anyway um i started doing therapy two years before i started doing a book um but it felt like a therapy session for me like even those moments when I was there and I was speaking to him and telling him about the moments in my life that I was struggling with or like I felt myself getting emotional in them times because he's just trying to relive it and just getting everything out of me um one thing that people don't really pay attention to or focus on is footballers actually being human they just feel like Mikel the footballer Jared the footballer and then on the pitch they are just a footballer so they feel like while they're on that pitch or while they are living that life they just see them as that person that that thing that people don't really notice that they're actually humans so I've done this book because for people to realize that the amount of stuff I was going through while playing I talk about there about me splitting up with my ex um the times I I obviously had to play games even though my dad just passed like these are the things that I was going through on the outside of my football that nobody knew about when I was splitting up with my ex I was struggling like I was seriously struggling but I still had to turn up to every day every training session and train and play games whereas I felt like I was living life through the back of my head like everything just seemed so far away like I was looking through a tunnel before I was actually seeing the light and I was going into work and doing that day and day and that for months.

23:33Mikel, was part of that at the time, were you telling anybody what you were going through

23:39Nedum Onuoha:or was the environment such that you didn't feel you could tell anybody what you were going through? So, I don't, you can't really, for me, I didn't want to go into the club and tell people that I'm struggling, I'm not going to lie. Like I did speak to my physio, he was the person who told me to go into therapy. but like I mainly spoke to like my brother and family members but then when you speak to your brothers and family members you they kind of want to give you an answer want to give you an opinion and sometimes that's not what you want you just want someone to you just want someone to listen and hear you and that's what you get with therapy like I didn't realize that therapy was so important it's one thing that I've only realized now I thought therapy was only for people who are going crazy it wasn't until i started therapy oh maybe i was going slightly crazy you never know you know but like i thought it was the people who's going crazy but i went in there and started offloading and speaking to them and they never gave me an answer they just said how does that make you feel why did you do that or these are the questions that makes it indulge within yourself so you have to think of them answers yourself and then find by yourself finding these answers you get results instead of someone else giving you an answer it's like the easy way out so not a time when you get when you go for the easy way out you never fulfilled by you working through it yourself you start to feel fulfilled and you start feel like you've got the answer and you can start moving forward were there times where you look back and thought that with different eyes you wish you could have done something differently or was it just a case of understanding that's who you were in that moment it's understanding that who you were in that moment because i'm not gonna lie i'm a person that never believes in going back in time and changing anything because if i did that something is a change in my life that's now and i'm happy where i am now i don't feel like i feel like my pathway has always been driven by god and god's helped me get to where I am so there's been a lot of mistakes I will say I've made a lot of mistakes during my career and during my life but where I am now and what I'm doing now is because of those mistakes it shaped me to the person I am now from the parts of the book which I've read so far the physio that knew something was wrong of you the day after the conference league final Josh Uwins he was he came to me and it was after the conference league final it was the day of the conference league final and all the boys were going out and I was a bit of a party boy I said to everybody whenever any big occasion I was like I want to have a drink I was one after you'd won the conference league final yeah I was thinking blimey it's interesting from David Moyes to allow you to go on the lash the afternoon before you anyhow but yes because this is a really emotional part of the book so you you just to back it up slightly you you win the conference league and your wife comes down who will be your ex-wife with with your kids and gives you your kids but because of a conversation the two of you have then that completely changes your mindset yeah basically what happened was we were going through stuff at the time we weren't actually together at the time but she she's coming over with the kids so my kids could be there and then something's happened at the game we've had a bit of a misunderstanding and where I was such on a high it kind of brought me down because life just kicked back in because I in that moment I was already struggling up until that stage and blah blah so it just literally it was like a flood hit me and all life has come back to me it was like realising that okay you might have won the conference but you've got all this rubbish that you still need to deal with so it just came to me and I sat in the changing rooms I was like nah I'm gonna have a couple of drinks and see if I can like shake this off I had like four drinks couldn't shake it gone to the after party and where all the families and stuff were couldn't shake it on the coach now everyone's getting off to go because Vlad and Thomas has sorted a night out for the boys and Vlad's come to me directly because I normally sort all the nights out for the boys and sort everything out he's like Mikey you sort all these nights out for us and we're there we enjoy ourselves let me do something for you where you don't have to worry about planning or do anything let me do it for you but I was there fast asleep so he's like woken me up and literally I've gone to Vladdy I was like I honestly do not have the energy obviously I didn't tell him what was going on with me I said I just don't have the energy to do it I can't do it and he was there going, Mikey, no, come on, like, you have to.

28:26And then I've just basically gone, bloody, no, I've turned over and I put my head back on the thingy. And then that's when he said it. He's like, Josh has gone to me. I could see it. He's like, you didn't look tired or exhausted from football. You just look exhausted from life. And I just got back to the hotel, went back to my room.

28:46Nedum Onuoha:Did the club have someone you could talk to? because I've had these discussions with players before and I'm not talking about the sports psychologist but I'm talking about a therapist, a counsellor, whatever you want to call them. Would the club have had someone that you could talk to or, which is what some players say, that would then start people whispering if you then go into a therapist's room or a counsellor's within the confines of a club there is someone there they'll like most clubs now have therapists and people around the club to speak to people but i just felt more comfortable doing it more external rather in the club because end of the day if anything you say is a possibility it could go back to somebody then go back to the club and no one wants to mess with their opportunity of playing games so I prefer doing things external even though I did let someone know in the club that I was struggling but then on the other side on the flip side of things it doesn't really make a difference because as long as you are performing on the pitch most people do not care what's going on in your life like you could be going through the most difficult times like I said I my dad passed in 2020 and it was coming up to my dad's funeral and I told David Moyes that my dad's funeral was happening they had training on the day I asked for the day off he asked me if I can come in and train in the morning and just go to the burial like these are the things obviously we were fighting for relegation at the time but these are the things that you deal with naturally like it's and it's not just me a few other boys have been through that type of stuff as well like no one cares about what's going on in your personal life as long as you are performing on that pitch when they don't want you they don't want you they don't want you you get discarded like I played for 10 years at West Ham 10 years the week before my car crash I started the game on the Monday after Monday I was starting against Wolves I had the accident on the Saturday.

31:09Obviously, didn't play for the rest of that season and I get released in the summer. It wasn't like I was a player who was on the bench, like a squad player coming in and out. No, for 10 years straight, I was starting if I was fit. Obviously, a couple of times they tried to sign up for people to get rid of me but it wasn't working out. Yeah? So, for 10 years straight, I played for that club. I was going to sign.

31:36Nedum Onuoha:Did they give you a chance to prove your fitness after the car crash? No. So I obviously trained every now and then with them. I had a feeling, I'm not going to lie, I had a feeling that they were going to do something. So I kind of pushed myself to get back. Like when I was training, I still had a bit of a limp. It wasn't until August where my limp kind of went. So I always had a bit of a limp. So I wasn't looking the best in training. But I know I needed to train. I needed to play a game for Jamaica just in case they didn't do something. Just in case they didn't offer me a contract, which they didn't do in the end.

32:16Just on the car crash, are you lucky to be here? 100%. I looked at that car and it was the only reason why I'm here is because of God. Like, even the guy at the pound, he came to me and he's like, I've seen cars with half the damage of your car. and those people who haven't survived.

32:37Nedum Onuoha:How does that make you feel? To be fair, when I saw the car myself in person, like it really hit me in the gut, like tears were falling from my eyes. Like it was a realisation that I shouldn't be here. But obviously God's made his own decision and kept me here. Has that changed your perspective on life? 100%. Before I used to push things back a lot, be like to people, I'll do it later, I'll do that another time. now I'm more like I need to be done because tomorrow it's not promised to anybody can I just ask you about a couple of the fun things in the book because it obviously has been a very serious conversation but there are a couple of things that made me laugh a lot Andre BK going to head the back of someone's head with his first header so that then they wouldn't have to challenge for a header after that is that right?