SaaStr 842: The 90/10 Rule for AI Agents: What to Build vs Buy with SaaStr's CEO and CAIO

25:30I took a lot of historical data. I put it into this agent. I used Zapier because obviously that powers a lot of other workflows to push back and forth and pull back and forth. So it's got webhooks. It's got APIs. It uses Salesforce as our primary data instance. Again, I'm not trying to recreate the wheel on that one. And it's a really great way to have data. Plus, Salesforce already has a lot of data, right? It's got 10 years of staff for data. So I'm not going to try and recreate that. I'm just going to push and pull from Salesforce because it's already there. You know, push everything back into the cloud.

26:02And then we use Replit for this one to build an internal agent. You can use Replit or Webable to build your internal agent. So we built 10K for two very specific reasons. One, because we did more of a marketing or registration tool and we couldn't find one. but too also because you know we wanted something that would help us get to like the keep us on it's got us to the first 10k attendees for sas 3 annual this year and help us drive the first 10k of revenue and it's giving us like literally actionable to do it's like every day it's the first agent now i log into um other than like our outbound and inbound agents but this one is typically first because it keeps us honest okay here are the campaigns you need to be running this week here's the copy for the campaigns.

26:44Here's the email copy. Here's the ad copy. Here's how much you should be spending on ads. When we look at where you're at today, like every morning, I'm like, agent, look at where we're at today. It'll say, okay, here's where you're at towards those attendance and revenue goals and sponsorship goals. Here's where we should adjust those levels and dial maybe a little bit more. Have you tried this thing? Or sometimes we'll be like, hey, I'm thinking of doing this, which is not our game plan. Is it a waste of time or not? Like it's a really good co-pilot for me to bounce ideas off of. So that's our AI VPN.

27:16It's more so internal facing, but I'll go back to what it looked like for a second. So this left hand rail is what our AI agent, what's like again, it's got a lot of proprietary data. So I took some screenshots that were more high level, but this is, you know, it's like, okay, here's the signup week, here's the launch week. Here's what, here's how many tickets you need to tweak. When you click them, then these are also further clickable. it'll say okay here's what you need to do this week right it's telling me like hey create this promo code make sure jason jason 20 is on which it is make sure you're running ads to it you know make sure all of your ai sdrs are optimized for sponsorships and tickets like here are the campaigns here are the target audience you need to hit here's what you should promote to them like it's literally giving us all these things which has been a super handy day-to-day tool and it's been And again, just a nice co-pilot to have kind of off the shelf.

28:05But again, it's high stakes in the fact that we rely on this now, but low stakes from the fact that only our turtles need to access it. We had to hook up some APIs to it to have real-time data. But other than that, it's not trying to solve anything crazy. And so for all types of purposes, it's a simple SaaS app or co-pilot or agent or whatever you want to call it, but it works pretty well. Okay, SaaSter Sponsors is our newest one. This is the one that I use Cowork a lot more for. Or if you can actually go to sassersponsors.com. So this is external facing. If you're logged out, which I'm logged in, you'll still see a bunch of the stuff.

28:41You just, if you want to take a look at the website just to see how it works, but you can go to it. We decided we would just leave it open and then we would only gate, you would only need to sign in for things. But if you wanted to actually submit a task, you'd have to sign in. To pick your booth, you have to stop. Okay. You can't take your competitor's booth to be really far from you. it's got some gated features there but for all intents and purposes we're like you know a lot of our sponsors have either third-party agencies or other like contractors they work with when it comes to something like staff store so we're going to keep it open um so that anybody can access most of the information at any given time just to see it at a glance but if they need to take an action that's when it'll prompt them to sign in interestingly that is something that i wrote into the spec with Claude.

29:27Like what I was like. And I'll actually show you that and then I'll come back to the website. other words that we were paying for an existing tool here, but I'll open up my Claude chat. So, this is the whole chat. I linked it in the slides. So if you want to read my whole chat with Claude, I'm specking out the sponsor portal that I built. Go for it. I actually think it's a super important step. If you are going to vibe code your own simple Zazz app, is to write the spec first. And actually that was a pro tip from Jason is to write the spec first so that it's kind of like bounded. It knows its parameters.

30:02It knows what it's going to do. And it's not going to go crazy on like trying to self-validate and do like a bunch of crazy features that maybe would break in that you don't need. But also in the new spec, make sure you have, you know, basic AI features and tooling. Make sure that anything I put in is going to be able to have that functionality. You know, like let's benefit from AI. like let's build that into a platform where the other one didn't have it and then certainly you can see it's here first i was like most importantly it needs to have single sign-on so whatever you write for the spec needs to keep that in mind that like it's going to be a single sign-on tool i literally said to claude you know i want to keep it open since our since our customers have people that are going to work on their work on their event sponsorships with like their agencies that's super common right these are really big companies so sometimes some are startups instead of sometimes it's also like the CEO or like their their chief of staff is on it and so I wrote that onto the spec you can read it all there wonder board later but I think it's a good format to always write the spec first or and um to be able to do and then like you know have a conversation with it of like okay does this look mine looked pretty good b1 um so I was like okay this looks like what I want and so that was the first thing I did before I went into in this case these screenshots are from replit so then I took what I wrote with plot as a set and I put it into replit and I you can see when I very first started I said how can I add true single sign-on not like faux single sign-on sometimes if I have coding apps like it'll do stuff that's not real like true single sign-on make it actually real and i wanted to do this because if as simple as it sounds actually our old third-party tool we were using for this didn't have persistent single sign-on so like if i sign on if i sign into our um previous application of this and i you know submitted a bunch of stuff disaster and then jason logged in let's say to the same instance he wouldn't see what i did for some reason it wasn't persistent so that part had always kind of annoyed me and so i was like oh i want to do true single sign on across the org so that you know we only get things that we need to anybody from their agency can do it but also you know make it smart enough where like if they join and it's their company domain org that anybody can join because the other annoying thing we had to do with our old platform is like me or wendy who's on our production team or david would literally have to invite somebody anytime they need to add somebody to their instance and i was like why this is the age of ai like can't you just look up their domain and see if they're a sponsor and I'm like, let them in the board.

32:44And the answer was, yes, yes, it could do that. And so that's where, again, I used a mix of co-work to help me think through this as well as the repli agent that is just in the agent to say, okay, what can I use to tackle single sign-on? They have a, it's not a native integration yet, but I think it's coming. And they use a tool called clerk to tackle single sign-on. And I was like, okay, let's do it. So I had to sign up for Clark. And then my chat's really long after this. But this is how I code through building true single find on and some light AI features into this app that we were previously using.

33:21So yeah, this is what it came out with. I think part of where I used co-work a lot too for this tool specifically, I was also like, okay, you've now ingested and written this back for the new portal. Great, I already gave that to my vibe coding app. um now take all the information from this year and put it into this like help me rewrite it so that i can give it to the replay agent to put into this portal so i don't have to copy paste a million freaking times like just do it for me and then the other thing i did was actually um made this a lot smoother and a lot faster i just gave ponco work um because it's on my machine i already had all the contract right of all of our current sponsors all of our current customers for Sam Stranial this year.

34:06And I said, work in this folder, go through each contract. And this is what you're going to need to do to create this app. And I told Claude specifically, write it in a way that a Vibe coding app will understand it because I'm going to give it to the Vibe coding agent. I'm basically going to output with you as an agent and give it to another agent to deploy. And it said, okay, I'm ready. I mean, it worked on my machine in this folder. went through all the contracts, et cetera. And it came out and I told it to look for a few specific things. I was like, one, make sure you're capturing the company, their URL, et cetera.

34:45Two, make sure you read each contract to see how many sponsor passes they have because this is important for registration. And that's like one of the first things people do when they log into the sponsor portal. I like to see how many customer passes they have, see if they have any speaking stuff. And then also tell me what day they sign so that I know what order that they'll be in for boost selection because that's what we use for boost selection. It did that in, I want to say it took like an hour because there's a lot of contracts they have to read. They're a little complicated and I checked it.

35:15So maybe a little less than an hour, but let's just say an hour. It took Claude co-work an hour to do that. And then I told Claude, okay, great. Like all the data looks good. Now go into our event registration platform because I had it up on my browser. I was like just click into it and start creating the codes it started making the codes on its own again probably took another like whatever 20 minutes to do that it went through everybody made their codes I was like great now make all of their customer nomination pass codes and all their promo codes and all that everything I just did there with like Claude Coburg in a couple hours we used to do with a human we'd be like hey check this monster list check our contract like go into each contract one by one, read it yourself, put it on the biz boat, tell them how many tickets they have, create the promo code, and then email it to them because back in the day, our old tool we were using couldn't ingest unique codes like this.

36:09So when I click this one, it goes to a saster code. A different sponsor clicks theirs. It goes to their sponsor code. I'm not going to show you their codes so that you don't use them, but it goes to their unique registration code for them. And so I was like, that literally used to take us a day and claude just wiped it out and you know he knocked it out in like an hour or two like what a champ it was super interesting right i was like i know this is something that ai could feasibly do a little bit better it also like made this entire timeline of what we do it made our campus map more interactive so that when sponsors come in here for the first time you get a lay of the lamb they know exactly like okay what are the what what do these clouds mean like if you're a first timer it's probably a little hard so it had all these widgets so that you could see what they are and so there's a lot of other stuff in there like i said you can feel free to go to sasher sponsors.com that's what we built may not be relevant to you if you're coming to saster it's still got like the days and times i think it's just interesting to click through it and see what is feasible and possible as a now forward-facing app i'll say my biggest fear i had when i was I like tested I would say it took me like an extra half day on SaaS responses to deploy just because I was testing everything so much I was like I have not done again I'm not an engineer I've not done single sign-on ever before in my life the first time I'm doing it so I want to make sure it works I would like sign in as like different emails I'd be like okay let me try to submit something there and do something there I was like I don't know it worked like I kept waiting for it to break a little bit more like I don't know I was like this single sign-on is working like could it be that we built a better vibe coding tool than what we were using previously and this is the first iteration of it right like it's february there's still some time disaster so we're going to build a few more things into the sas for sponsors but it was again i don't know if i could have done it without the co-work element involved maybe it would have taken me a lot longer i also got like a little bit stuck at one point with single sign on and it was like try to tell replet to do this well yeah hold it and then it worked so it did help a lot as like my buddy forced me to get this all done but what's the catch right and then we'll do q a so i think i mentioned it at the top but you know biggest catch here is again if you're just starting to explore vibe coding if you're in one of those three buckets of you haven't really built out an app or agent yet that is to this level of sophistication i wouldn't feel embarrassed in any way by that like this was a fairly it's still simple on the surface but was still a little bit more complicated to deploy and so i don't think i could have done it you know nine months ago this is only having built other apps into production different websites different things that are now out there in the universe that i knew i knew feasibly it could be done if i just solved this single sign-on thing.

39:09And so that was the biggest risk. And so I spent a little bit more time on that. That was the majority of my time is making sure that would work and then programming it and then doing a bunch of extra testing because I was like, I don't want to send this to 100 sponsors. And then I get 100. I was like, my worst nightmare is if I go to this thing, I send to 100 people and they're like, Amelia, I can't log in or I can't do this or my registration code is wrong or it told me I was a platinum and really I'm a gold. like i had so much fear that it was gonna get so this wrong that i spent extra extra extra time testing it and i was like i don't know man i've tested it all i could like it's working like it it worked um and so then i i sent it to like 12 sponsors i was like let me send it to 12 people see if it works and then they were submitting there weren't any issues i could see what they were submitting because i also built i also told the app to build me a what i call a super admin back in so I can see anytime somebody submits anything which is super cool which the other tool didn't have and so this is really again it was a scary situation but one where I was like okay I've tested it up I just have to ship it to the first full people see if anything breaks and then go from there but it was honestly my worst nightmare to be like if this doesn't work I'm just gonna I was like yeah I'm just gonna whack you the tool if it doesn't work because I can't deal with like a thousand emails that they can't get into the park because the benefits will not outweigh the cost but yeah the other thing is like i do keep flexing with it which i need to not like there are other things i want to build into this portal and we're like oh what if we did this and what if we did that and what if we like now let all the basics work and they're working fine and they work well i'm like there's all these other things i want to do now but i actually need to stop that thing with it it's hard to do that i think to some degree because it's also a little bit detrimental to my time.

40:58I'm like, I just need to, again, that's not something I would be doing if I just bought an off-the-shelf tool. Like some of them are how they are, right? Like you can do some additional agent training and you could do new campaigns or whatever, but you're not futzing with the actual like app and the backend itself. So it's like, I'm just going to stop because I have to.

41:18So all of that to say, can you really vibe code and apps into production? you can but obviously with a lot of asterisks and daggers there it should be something simple it should be something where you know you have something either proprietary or stuff like this where you can't find an off-the-shelf solution again if you boil down the things we've done with it which are you know websites valuation calculators now this test response response one which is basically a project management tool if you think about it um it not super comp like they are complex but they're not complicated in the sense that like feasibly yes you can do these things again versus like trying to buy code your own i'm not going to try and buy my own crm and like recreate 10 years of data touch points and who opened this email and when like that's too complicated i'm not gonna something just not worth the trade-offs of you know buying salesforce or building something like this i think too why we've bought versus built a lot of things we use is a lot of these third-party tools at least today are you know they're compliant whatever you need some some of you only like stock two or whatever or iso whatever if you they're secure right your data it's they like this is again neither of these two tools i've built recently are storing like super proprietary data so to some degree there's a there's probably a little bit of risk there but it's worth the trade-off because it's not the anything it's not the end of the world there Again, it's not like table stakes.

42:50And typically, too, these apps that we've bought and have, you know, we have an FDE at each of these. And that's not unique to us. That's just, you know, how these products work in this day and age. Most folks will pair you with an FDE to get it going and to help you run it and deploy it, which, again, for a time perspective has a lot of benefits to somebody who knows how to do this fully. I'm going to let them do it. Like, I'm going to spend, you know, once a week with them. Like, I spend months a week with, like, qualified hours and agent force. But I'm like, hey, it's 15 minutes here. I'm kind of looking for our agent to do.

43:20They go off and do it, and then we come back. I'm not spending the rest of my week trying to hustle these agents all day long because they can't. There's other things to do. One kept an obvious point, though. Two kept on all this stuff. Obviously, the quality of these apps you can create yourself is accelerating. If you haven't done it or don't get it, actually, now's the best time to start. Fibcoding, right? If you have to, right? The next best time is probably next week because the pace of acceleration is so great. State of the obvious, I asked Claude what the value of Amelia's time was. And Claude said, depending on how you calculate it, between$1 ,000 and$2 ,000 an hour.

44:00That's her time. Now that we're such a lean team with so many agents of humans. So there's no economic justification for software costs to building these apps, right? You can buy them for$10 ,000. It makes no economic sense. So you have to really need something that you can't buy today. It's almost beyond the 90-20 rule. If you're working in Tulum or Bali and you're just futzing around, I don't know. Your time might be worth$5 an hour. I don't know. But this is something we had to build. Someone built that's worth$1 ,000 to$2 ,000 an hour. You have to be careful to bound your time. You have to be careful to not futz.

44:40But that's the bar for us to build something versus buying something. It is not economic. So that's what Claude said. But it is worth it because these are high-impact things where we get extremely high value out of an AI VP of marketing and a sponsor portal that will interact and manage$10 million of revenue and make that process infinitely better than it's been the last 10 years, like infinitely better with AI. So those are two thoughts, but we can go to questions from there. yeah it's fine it's not like somebody asked me yesterday like hey would you white label the stats response or something like just about it no i think it's a good i think it's it is but but then you have to support all the customers you have to do all the the the future the future of vibe coding actually um and we've worked closely with the replet team on this it is early is now that you can really build these things for real and when we started on replet last summer and it was true of lovable and bolt and others it was very hard to get something into production it was if you've watched my journey now if you if you put in the time and you have some familiarity with how to build software you can build most apps that you want to it's radically better so the next frontier is maintaining them and all the stuff if you talk about vibe coding it's about building getting going and and we're gonna have a whole replet vibe code at saster ai 2026 in may 12 through 14 it will help you build apps and come it'll be fun you can build your own bb app together It will be very unique, and we're going to promote that all.

46:06And we're going to have a whole day called SaaS or Deploy on the 12th, just about deploying agents. We're going to teach you how to do all of it and get you into production. But now that you can actually build these apps, who's going to maintain them for the next five years? So white labeling sounds fun, but for us, if we couldn't make millions from it, it wouldn't be worth doing the customer-facing side. And so let's get to more questions. But the interesting frontier, not to distract us, who will maintain these apps? And now that we have 10 or 20 agents running and probably 10 apps we built ourselves, it's us, right?

46:37And so the maintenance goes more and more to the top. So issues to work on in 2026, but very interesting. Yeah, I do hope one of my agents probably thought I can get good enough to manage the others a little bit more. It's a dream right now, no matter what X said. It's a dream right now. It doesn't, you know, sometimes it relates to the first question that we have. Sometimes he times out. He's on my Mac. I'm like, what? I'm on the beefiest MacBook Pro you can have. Maybe I need to move to a Mac Mini in a closet. Sometimes I'll time out on my machine. I'm like, dude. Yeah, but these apps don't time out.

47:15Yeah, yeah. So it's just a little funny. Okay, the first question for Kelly is, what percentage of SaaS companies are you seeing now get hit with the current market conditions? That's probably a better question for you, Jason. Are you able to share anything about your conversations with folks in the SaaS community on what makes them successful to avoid some of the market reaction lately? Well, look, the market reaction is brutal. I mean, Shopify had an incredible quarter. They just announced, wow, we are doing this. Growing 30 % at, I think,$12 billion in revenue. And it's the market that it's down 10.4 % today.

47:56It's brutal out there. And what can you do? Well, first of all, we'll, on 20VC with Harry and Rory, we have Michael Canna-Brux, the CEO of Atlassian, coming to talk about it live. We recorded it yesterday. So listen on Thursday to that pod. It's pretty good because Mike talks a lot about this, practically speaking. His response is there's nothing he can do. He's got to go with it. He's got to motivate the team and get them through it. It's like, you know, Atlassian beat the quarter. It's re-accelerated at$5 billion in revenue and it trades at 4X ARR. Like our world that we know doesn't really work if Atlassian gets 4X ARR, if Shopify growing 30 % at 12 billion falls 10.4%.

48:35The world that we've grown up in the last decade doesn't really work well. And you really can have two options. You can sort of hope and pray that we get back to the old days. I think that's what most startups are doing when I get investor updates and folks that aren't that AI forward that are still single product. They're just kind of hoping that things will get better because they're not publicly traded. But the simple answer is you have to get AI budget. You have to grow faster. That is what the world's saying. It's hard. Cry me a river. Like you have to grow faster every single quarter. And if you're not in B2B, you're not getting AI budget.

49:12You're not changing the world. We had to build the sponsor portal because the dated crappy SaaS B2B products weren't agent level. They weren't disruptive. But the one we've built is disruptive. Now hundreds and hundreds of human hours are going away because AI can handle the sponsor portal. That's what you have to build, something that good, or it's going to get canceled like this 10K product we just aren't renewing. They may not even know yet because we've ghosted them. We don't need them. There's no chance to save the deal. We've already built our own. It's happening to folks. You're either at the cutting edge of AI or you're getting displaced, and the question is just what's the speed?

49:47If all your customers are on five-year contracts, you can hide if you want. But there is no middle ground anymore. That's the best advice I can tell you. And then one last thing I would say to founders on this, I wrote this on Twitter yesterday, and then I'm a longer post on Sastor. Ask yourself, calmly use your own product. Is your jaw dropping? Is your jaw dropping? Almost every, if anyone that has even a couple million in revenue, up to billions, at some point your product was a jaw dropper or you never would have gotten there. You utterly changed the lives of a stakeholder, of a customer. They didn't buy you because you're 1 % better.

50:23They bought you because you were jaw-droppingly better, at least for some niche use case. Be honest. In the age of AI, are you as jaw-dropping as Claude? And if you're not, that's why you're decaying. And you've got to find that jaw-dropping AI moment where your jaw drops that your AI agent is so good, you can't believe that was even possible six months ago. That's how you're going to build a$10 billion company today, or you're going to end up trading at one times revenue. There's nothing in the middle. So ask yourself, honestly, would you renew your own product today? Would you pay more for your product than last year?

50:59And would your jaw drop if you're exposed to your product? Are you trying to ram something through with the decaying sales and marketing team that is not a jaw dropper anymore? That is not a wow moment. Where's your wow moment from AI? They're all over the place. All the Sastra AI tools we put up on Sastra.ai slash agents are, they're wow that your jaw drops when you use them, right? Like, you know, Sam Blond launched a tool, Monaco. It's our next AI SDR tool. Like, we don't need another one. It launched today. You can find links to it on our agent page. It's even better than the other ones. You know what it does with this Monaco one?

51:32Like, it finds your ICP, it calls them for you, and sets up a phone call or a meeting for you directly. You don't even have to do any cadences or anything. It literally sets up meetings for you in your calendar for real that have been confirmed with a human. I mean, that's a jaw dropper. isn't it? Amelia didn't even believe how good it was until she saw it. And it's a jaw dropper. You want to pay 50 to 100K for a jaw dropper? Yes. Do I want to pay$200 a month for another crappy project management tool? No, that's today. Yeah. I give them just to tie it all in, right? I think the big thing that tipped me over the edge the last two weeks was like, I was like, okay, it's time to redeploy our sponsor portal.

52:15But again, the one we've used has zero AI. and that killed i was like i can't i can't be sass or ai and deploy something that has no ai in it like that's just one totally terrible that they haven't done at least the very basics with ai um but it's funny because after i showed it to you just i think you made the comment like well what about these other apps and you named a couple other ones where i was like honestly i feel like i could start to rebuild it maybe not for after annual but there's a few now that I'm like literally looking at where I'm like, they fall into the same bucket of, they have not benefited from AI at all.

52:52There's just no new AI features. There's nothing good about it. There's no benefits to it. I'm like, you know, I'll probably move off those two or three other tools we named next because there's no benefit to stay. Like there just really isn't. So yeah, Monica is the newest agent. We're going to, we've already started using it. We just got onboarded. last Friday. So we'll check in in like another week or so until you guys were out on it. Sam, who you guys might have known from Brex, who was the CRO there, launched this tool after going through this very frustrating process on his own of trying to wrangle human FDRs and VP of sales and other folks to do outbound.

53:38But also when you're starting out and you're less of a you know maybe named brand as brex became and then got bought um you may have problems at the early stage filling your pipeline right if you're at super early stages you may have nothing in your crm and so monica is really cool we're actually using it for a very unique youth case that i think it's not it's totally not their icp but um the tool is pretty good in the fact it's like you gotta let me think what do you have do you already have like three or four patients i was like yeah but this one's so good but you gotta let me use it because i have i was like i have another use case for it like i have another part of sales and go to market that's not being tackled that i want to tackle with this agent and then this agent can go deep on that and so um i'm pretty stoked i'll go to the next question that's monaco you guys should check it out it's monaco.com they actually own that domain um that's an interesting story but maybe we'll have sam on next time about that too okay then we'll ask question here let me get back to our chat someone asked if we've been looking at open claw um or claw bot do you want to quickly explain that ren is on we haven't i get why engineers are interested let me simple answer it's not interesting to us today and maybe I mean, breaking guardrails and having rogue agents running around is just not something we need.

55:08I get it's very interesting. And we built an app called Ren AI. You can use it. It runs autonomously and has extended memory. So I get the appeal of it, but it's really not for what we want to do, which is, you know, GTM type stuff. anything that needs to run autonomously we can just have an app run autonomously we can just have these apps that we built on replet run uh 24 7 it's really not i'm not saying it's not exciting but um we're not interested in breaking guardrails actually what's more important for us is making sure the guardrails work exciting but today we don't need this stuff like it's not that i'm not interesting we're all over moltbook you can watch the things our agent wrote about buying 400 000 of watches that we didn't ask for and other things, which are all sort of fake that our agent wrote and we've built versions of it.

55:59But I know I just think that what's much more exciting is just having well guardrailed agents that know your data cold and can run on their own. That's all we need today. So I'd say we move on to the next question. Yep. This question from Steve was, you mentioned that some of your webpage apps are public facing. What are you doing currently to protect the live coded apps and tools from attacks? How have you tested this? Look, I think it's a great question. And I think it's something that the platforms, you know, first of all, I'll give you two simple answers. One, the platforms have gotten better.

56:38They all do basic security scans. When you launch an app now, they look for private keys you've embedded in the code. They look for other things. They do a lot of the basic stuff. which is helpful to one way or another, what you should do with the agents now is they're pretty good. You can do this in Claude code. You can do it in Replit. You can do it in Lovable is ask them, um, uh, to do the deepest security audit possible on your app at least once every month or two. And they're pretty good at it. And it will, it, it, it, I'm not saying it's perfect, but it's better than most probably low end developers would do if you had an outsourced dev shop and they'll find an infinite number of issues and it will take you hours and hours and hours and hours to fix them and undo it and it will overlock your app down and it will stop you from able to do uploads and it will block your internal apis and it will drive you crazy each time we do an internal security update it takes about a week to recover to fix all the stuff we have to fix and unfix and refix and there are more and more third-party tools it's a real issue it's a large issue and it is not an issue that's fully solved.

57:44But the platforms are getting better. And then before you release anything with any customer facing out, at least with the agent, tell them to do the most in-deep security audit possible. And I'm not a security expert, but as a SaaS founder, I've lived so many of the issues. I've been through so many security ads. We've done our own. I think you will get a decent outcome, but it is an open area. question related to just our time trade-offs um do we have enough time to do everything we're at the limit um it's a big it's an interesting issue for the future it's it's an interesting issue for your team i mean there are better people to build and manage agents than me and amelia out there but there's not like so many and how many folks you have on your team like who on your team could you hand these apps off to who can you hand out off your agent management I'm sure there are folks you are on your team that can do it.

58:38But I think, honestly, you're probably lucky if 1 % to 5 % of your team, we could offload the management we have. And I think it's a very, it's a challenging issue of how many, you know, we are at the max. We did add Monaco, which we love, but only because it's disruptive. Only because it fills a gap that we don't have. Otherwise, we would not add another GTM agent. We're just overloaded with the inputs we have, right? So I think this is an issue that most folks haven't contended with, but we're at our max and we're going to learn this year how to do it. Yeah. Okay. With that, so to do some point, if you want to learn more, I use some of the faster annual branding slide deck, but fasterannual.com will be there in May.

59:23We're doing a full deploy day that's new on Tuesday. so content just like this on deploying agents some of it we'll probably do but otherwise it's going to be mostly other folks telling you how to deploy different kinds of agents they'll go deep, they'll do deep dives so that'll be exciting to that thanks all for joining here thanks for the nice comments and all that job and we will do another one of these fairly soon because the world keeps changing it seems like every week so we'll do this soon but yeah in the meantime if you want to know more about the market and stuff Yeah, listen to it's the 20BC podcast that Jason does with Harry and Rory every week.

59:58It is Thursday. It drops Thursday morning. You can go to the 20BC YouTube to watch it. There's a lot of really good insights. There's no politics. Much like this. So I highly recommend listening slash watching that one too. With that, thanks for joining. See you guys next time.

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