How to Reach Financial Independence Without Putting Your Life on Hold with Justin Peters

22:58For sure. I find myself if I'm going to be hyper vigilant on 10 of my budget categories and really make sure that I'm prudent and I'm spending well in those, that allowing myself one or two budgets for flexibility and freedom because I know it's bringing me some kind of outsized joy and happiness, then I think that's a pretty good trade-off. I'd rather crush five or six categories and then really enjoy one or two things that I know is going to bring me enjoyment. For sure. I think that's so important for everyone to have, and I think for many people listening, if you don't have something like that, it's worth going through this exercise and kind of thinking through what you truly value and identifying those values and where you're going to put that money.

23:36The last one I absolutely love. This kind of reminds me of a little bit of like we had Sahil Bloom on the show and he was talking through kind of the five different areas of wealth. And one of the areas he was talking about was like this time that you have and you only have a limited time left with your loved ones. And some of it is aging parents, just like you're talking about. Some of this is like I always think about it with my kids where they say, you know, your kids are going to be under your roof for a very small period of time. It's like that 18 years is like 90 % of the time that you're going to spend with them.

24:04And I always think about that, like, you know, even right now I have an eight year old, a five year old and a one and a half year old. And like the time that I'm spending with them right now is going to be one of those things where I'm going to be 90 years old, kind of not being able, you know, in a situation where I'm looking back on life and this is where I'm going to want to come back to. This is the point in time where I'm going to want to spend a lot more time. And I think being able to make decisions where you can spend time with family members, like aging parents, my parents are getting older to like where they're, you know, approaching 70 now.

24:34And, you know, you're gonna want to get that time back and having to make that decision or not being able to spend time with them because of money is not what you want to be doing. And I think same thing with your wedding example is a perfect example of like, spending valuable time with with friends or being able to be with friends on big moments like that, I think is so incredibly valuable. So how did you come up with this? And how do you kind of think about what should go in that category? It was honestly just a reflection of 10 years in my 20s and being like, what did I really regret from it?

25:03And like never did like upgrading my car or buying more better clothes or any of that stuff really come to mind. It was really just like these one or two experiences that that that I'm like, oh, that that's what it is. And like I said, it's the goal of this wasn't necessarily to alleviate spending entirely in these categories, but really just deprioritize it as most I can. And I don't know, for some reason, my brain just works like that. Like I have to like give myself the permission to say, hey, this is a spending category that's in your moments that matter list, Justin. Like, just press the button.

25:40Like, you're not going to regret spending an extra$100 on the flight whenever you really got to look back and enjoy the four days, five days that you spent with mom and dad and did these certain things. So, yeah, it was a combination of reflecting back on regrets that I had and then really kind of looking at my expenses and being like, what are the things that push come to shove I would still want to spend my money on? And that's kind of what made this list. Do you think there's kind of a fine line for a lot of people pursuing financial independence between kind of how they're thinking about this, where there's people who are disciplined and we always obviously have to be disciplined when it comes to spending.

26:16Otherwise, if you just spend freely without thinking about it ever, it could be one of those things that gets out of control. But is there a fine line between kind of discipline and deprivation for a lot of folks out there? And kind of how do you think about that? Oh, that's a really good question and something I spend a lot of time on. And I think it's something that the financial independence community honestly should be doing a little bit more work on between discipline and deprivation. If we're talking in terms of spending, I think it really comes down to not now versus I'm not allowed to.

26:43So not now being like, that's the disciplines like, you know, I'd love to spend this two hundred dollars, but I'm putting that towards another goal. Like, I'm going to do that eventually, but I have a different priority right now versus deprivation could be like, I could afford to make this two hundred dollar purchase. but I shouldn't be spending money on something like this. You know, that's where I kind of see a lot of the difference between the two. It could be the exact same moment, but it's really how you're thinking about it, mentally approaching it. So yeah, that's what I see. But I'd love to get your thoughts on this too.

27:13I feel like I struggle with this sometimes between like modulating between the deprivation and the discipline. I've moved a lot more towards, I actually spend a lot more than I ever thought I would. And now I have developed this timeframe frame where like I wanted to move as far away from deprivation as I possibly could get. And I wanted to do this experiment. And I started to do this experiment where like, OK, if I can focus on increasing my income over this this next couple of years and I did it over the course of like seven or so years, you know, what would that look like? What would that feel like?

27:43And how would I feel if I did that? And when I started to do what I realized was my priorities shifted and they shifted in a way that I never anticipated. But I really started to prioritize things like health. I started to prioritize more so things like convenience and buying back my time and health or like two areas of my life that I probably would have not spent money on. You know, previously, I would have said, okay, well, I could go outside and run or walk or lift weights, you know, at a gym membership for 20 bucks a month. Why would I prioritize, you know, other areas of my health when I could just kind of hack my way to it?

28:15But then I realized, oh, no, this is one of those things that I actually do value. And once I got comfortable spending a little bit more and getting away from that deprivation line, it allowed me to do this. And then secondarily is I started to realize once I had kids that I wanted my time back. I wanted more time back so I could spend more time with them because it's not worth my time or energy to like spend five hours mowing my lawn, for example, or spend two hours every weekend cleaning my pool. And so instead, I wanted to buy that time back, which before I would spend, you know, five, seven, 10 hours a weekend on my lawn.

28:46I remember like waking up Saturday and I'd be like in the yard until like three o 'clock in the afternoon. I'm like, what the heck am I doing? So finally hired it out. It was like$60. I couldn't believe how cheap it is. And now that's one of the best$60 I spend per month. And so it's one of those things that like I've developed and gotten closer away from that deprivation line, only because I decided I wanted to try to spend more. And so I think for people listening, if you're going through this, like if you're saying to yourself, I'm pretty frugal, and this is not everybody. Some people are on the opposite end of the spectrum.

29:14You need to spend less. but if you are someone who is overly frugal or feels as though you struggle with the skill of spending, just try to spend a little bit more. And you're, you know, listening to a personal finance podcast and having someone tell you to spend more is probably the opposite of what you thought was going to happen. But I think it does help you kind of get into the realm to figure out what some of your values are. Sometimes it's hard to know what your values are until you actually try it out to test it out, to see if it's something you really want. And so many times I would just evaluate this in a couple of different ways, but that's kind of how I got there.

29:44It may not be the right way, but that's kind of how I got there. But you got to make sure that you're still hitting your goals. And it really, for me, comes down to if you're hitting your financial freedom goals, if you're hitting your savings rate goals, if your net worth is increasing every single year, you can do experiments like this. You can do fun stuff like this, and it'll give you the ability to be able to kind of see what it's like, see what it's like to spend a little more in this area or see what it's like. I just, we just took a, you know, a weekend trip down to the Bahamas and I spent more in four days than I ever thought I would spend in my life.

30:14But it was one of those things that like I enjoyed every second of it because it was memories that we made as a family. Like here's a great example of it. Okay. Is we did the like swimming with the dolphins encounter. Okay. And years ago, I would have never, ever done something like this because it was like an hour long for five of us. And it was like$990, but you got to touch the dolphin, the dolphin, and like kisses you on the cheek. Like you get to watch it do all these different tricks. And years ago, I would have never done something like that. But like it was, my kids absolutely loved it.

30:44It was like one of the most memorable things. They're still talking about it today. And so it's just like one of those things that you just got to try and you just got to do. So these are just examples that I think for many of you out there are really, really interesting ways to kind of think about this. When it comes to this though, like do you think that most people need to kind of establish those baselines first? So they need to establish that savings rate line. Do they need to establish kind of where they want their investments to be before they start to kind of spend more on some of these values?

31:12Or what is your order of operations and how you think about that? Man, you just named it so well right there. And listening to you give the response back to the last question there, too, I do think this is really just a sequencing or an order conversation. There are people that would really benefit from not doing the$20 gym membership because they're working their way out of credit card debt, just go walk outside, do some of the body weight free things that you can do. And that$20 is going to give you an outsized impact on your budget now versus someone that might be way later in their financial independence journey that has had discipline for decades, that has been hitting their goals that would honestly benefit from the opposite, spending a little bit more, reducing the savings rate to some degree.

31:54and honestly finding some of the joy and fulfillment in spending. So yes, I'm a big fan of front-loading, especially this financial independence journey, really working on the savings rate from the get-go and then right-sizing it throughout your journey and rewarding yourself as you make progress too. That's something that I think I struggle with and I know many other people in the financial independence community have struggled with too, just moving the goalpost. It's like you promised yourself that this was kind of the end or you would start loosening the reins at this point in time. So you've got to start doing it at some point in time.

32:29You've got to reward yourself for all the hard work that your former self put in. For sure. And that's my number one struggle is that goalpost moving. But I think for many people out there, you're going to see it to where, you know, once you get to a point in time, and I think Coast Fire is a great, great point in time where this can happen, is if you get to Coast Fire and all of a sudden you realize, okay, well, if I slow down the amount that I'm saving or if I just stop immediately right here, I can still coast my way, obviously, into retirement because compound interest is going to take over and it will get my investments all the way to the point in time where they need to go.

32:57So that's a great first goal for like anybody listening who hasn't reached COSFI yet. This is a great first goal to get to because then you can start to loosen up the reins a little bit and have the ability to do some of this fun stuff. But being able to make sure that that savings rate is in place and making sure that you're kind of working towards those goals is first. And that's why I love, you know, front loading, just like you said, that's the same thing I did. And I don't regret it doing any of that whatsoever because it allowed me to kind of get to the point in time where I could take my foot off the gas a little bit.

33:24And you're going to really, really appreciate that your younger self did that. I've never met a single person that's like, I wish I didn't save in my 20s. Like it's usually people who said, hey, yeah, I'm so glad I did. Maybe they will regret things like what you're talking about here, where they regret taking a specific trip or they regret missing out on something. But we all are going to regret spending decisions, whether we overspend or we underspend. And so in reality, the better situation, I think, for most people is to kind of front load some of this stuff. Do you think there are purchases or maybe you have some specific ones for you that are always worth it while you're on the path to financial independence?

33:59I really hate to be prescriptive on this, but I talk to a lot of people that have gone through financial independence or honestly just a lot of older people in general and taking some wisdom from them. And it's kind of affirmed a couple of things that I feel like were always really worth it on my path to financial independence. they were travel and experiences they were my health personal development relationships and safety and security like any time that I spent on those I never really regretted it and then on the flip side like I said I hate to be prescriptive because it's got to be different for everybody but there are some things that I felt like were very easy for me to avoid in my financial independence journey especially early on when I was really focused on my savings rate and reducing my expenses and that were convenience purchases like food delivery.

34:49It was a fancy car, not a reliable car, but a fancy car, new clothes, housing in like the most popular area of town. Like those were some of the things that like were easy sacrifices for me that really kind of moved the needle to accelerate my journey. And honestly, just allow me to like then experience those a little bit later in life when, you know, now I'm in my 30s and it's nice whenever I can order some food to the house because my wife and I don't want to go out. You know, the$14 extra charge on it's not the end of the world versus, like I said, when I was 22, just getting in the car and going to pick something up myself or making a meal at home was an easy sacrifice I could make.

35:26Are there any, you know, questions that you think people should ask themselves or exercises people should go through where they're trying to figure out what their values actually are? I mean, a lot of people know maybe like what their hobbies are or something that they're interested in. But if someone's trying to identify, hey, how do I separate my values from things that I just kind of feel as though are frivolous and that I want? Is there anything that you did to do that? Did you sit down and like write these out? Did you sit down with your wife and kind of talk through this? Or how did you think about it?

35:52I wish I had a really good exercise for you on this, but this was like a lot of trial and error for me. Like this is the thing. I love many experiments. I love small experiments. And I think non-consequential experiments are a great way to actually figure out your values. You were talking about this earlier, where, you know, on your next trip, spend the money on the all-inclusive and like, how does it feel? Does it feel good? Does it feel not good? Like, the nice thing is that that might be like a$1 ,000 decision in that moment that you can contain. And then maybe the next month, cut back, like cancel all your subscriptions.

36:23And then at the end of the month, like which ones were you really like yearning for? And which ones didn't really make sense for you? So I like turning things on and off and seeing like, Like, how does that impact me? Is that something that I miss? Is that something that I don't miss? And then I think just the bigger value questions you want to think through are some of the things that I talked about on the moments that matter list. Like, where are the experience or the moments that you really want to show up for? And to that regard, just trying to deprioritize money the best you can in some of those decisions.

36:52One of the areas that people worry about a lot as they're on this path is kind of thinking through lifestyle creep. And I think lifestyle creep can be something that too many people in the personal finance space may say is like the worst possible thing that could happen. And for most people, that's their problem. Their problem is that, you know, death, either death by a thousand cuts or they're increasing their housing, their transportation, their food costs way too much. And that's why they're still living paycheck to paycheck, even though they're making, you know,$200 ,000 per year. You'd be shocked how many people we have done, like some studies recently, we're looking at people who are making over$150 ,000 per year who are still living paycheck to paycheck.

37:25And it's over 50%, which is just wild. It's crazy. But when we think about this, is some lifestyle creep good? Like, do you think some lifestyle creep is good or should this be something where, hey, we're kind of staying at one specific level no matter what we're making? I think some lifestyle creep is definitely good, especially if you're disciplined and you are hitting the marks on your financial goals. Humans crave progression and progress, and there should be small rewards throughout your journey here. So, you know, kind of staying flat and, you know, maintaining the same kind of budget, especially in a world where everything's just getting more expensive naturally, like it's going to be so hard and so deflating in your journey.

38:03But if you're hitting your financial goals, if you're increasing your income every single year, I do think you should take a portion of that and consider what were some of those things in my disciplined moment that I said, you know, I would like to spend money on that, but not yet. And then thinking through, okay, how can I start adding some of those things in as I progress through financial independence? And one thing that really helped me, we talk about our net worth and the 4 % rule. And I always like, as I was building in this journey to financial independence, I had this like, outsized portion of money that was just sitting there in these accounts.

38:36And I really couldn't do anything with it. Like I wasn't like it wasn't like liquid cash that I could deploy at any point in time. But it wasn't, it shouldn't be ignored either. Like that was all the progress that I've made over this time. So what I did was like on my spreadsheets, you know, when I was like figuring out my cash flow, I do my income, like how much am I making this year from my W-2 and my business and my side hustles, how much am I spending? And one thing that helped was just to add one more thing in my income category. And that was just like my 4 % minion. It was like I looked at my net worth, multiplied it by 4%.

39:10That's essentially like we're working towards fire right there. But I added it to my current income. So then that kind of like boosted up like what I was, how much money I actually could afford in my life. And that gave me a little bit more reassurance that, hey, Justin, like if you're making$100 ,000 and you're spending 50, you got a 50 % savings rate, but you also saved$200 ,000 over here on the side too. And that shouldn't be ignored. Like you should be considering like how much if you were to deploy that that little minion to your life right now, how much money that could also bring into to your life or your world right now.

39:46So I did that. And like I actually realized like, oh, my income was probably more than I thought it was. It was a little bit more outsized. And that allowed me to be a little bit more comfortable, slowly, gradually increasing my lifestyle as I was also working and building my net worth up to. My relationship with money has changed a lot over the years. Early on, I thought building wealth was about making more money. Now, I know it's really about having clarity. When you know exactly where your money is going and whether you're on track, you make better decisions. That's one of the reasons I love Monarch.

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42:13Head to PolicyGenius.com to compare life insurance quotes from top companies and see how much you can save. That's PolicyGenius.com. Do you have a routine that you go through? Is it like on a weekly basis or a monthly basis, or even just like what you talk about on a yearly basis that you kind of think about managing your money when it comes to this stuff? Because I think sometimes, you know, if we manage our money properly, we can see how much extra we have left over in order to be able to spend on things that we value or things that we enjoy. Do you use like, is spreadsheets the route that you go?

42:46Do you use like a money tool or how do you kind of do that? What are your money routines look like? I'm an old school spreadsheet guy, probably because like I'm like an Excel, Google Sheets wizard and I just like built the tool that I wanted to on that front. But yeah, at the end of every single month, I catalog my income and my expenses. I track my net worth. I update the accounts and put my net worth in there. And then I do all the small maintenance stuff, like get my receipts for my business or my HSA accounts, et cetera. But yeah, I honestly think data has been king for me. Like it wasn't until I really started tracking everything And I realized, A, how much progress I was making on the net worth side and B, honestly, how much surplus or flexibility that I had on the cash flow side that allowed me to actually become a little bit more comfortable running some of these mini experiments, spending some and kind of figuring out what I actually like to enjoy spending my money on.

43:38I found that once I started to do exactly that, and I use, I use Monarch money, there's, there's a bunch of tools out there, but that's what I use. And I found once I started to do this, I realized, oh, this is actually kind of freeing, because then all of a sudden, I could kind of see the difference between my money's actually going where I want it to go. first. But secondly, then I can actually kind of see the difference and kind of use those dollars towards my values or use some of these dollars towards, you know, something big that I want to save up for. So I thought, you know, it's a really freeing feeling for listeners who just haven't done this before or gone through this exercise to just kind of develop some sort of money routine.

44:12Like I have a routine where, you know, every week I kind of check the accounts, I pay off my cards every week. It just keeps me on top of everything. It's just there's not a real reason why I do it outside of just staying on top of everything. Then every single month, I just double check my transactions that they're all automated in the right, you know, the right spots. And I kind of check my cash flow, the net worth and all those different things. And it really does not take long. How much time does your routine take you? Because you're on spreadsheets. So you're manually doing it. It's a little bit.

44:35Yeah. Honestly, 20, 30 minutes a month. And some of that's just because I like to like overdo some things like I put the exact date in versus just like I probably could just put August for every single transaction that happened in August. I really don't run like a date specific reports or calculations. But Andrew, I am totally with you. Everyone that is starting their personal finance journey, the first piece of advice I give them or the first action item is just reconciling your expenses and just figuring out cash flow, like what's coming in, what's going out. And that could be scary for some people, of course, like, but it can be very freeing for many people.

45:12Like many people don't realize my wife was one of those people. I started helping her years ago with her finances just when we were dating. And she like always said she was bad with money and she's overspending and stuff. And then for like a year, we tracked all of her expenses and income and she was doing way better than she thought. And that piece of information, that reassurance was so freeing for her and got her really excited. And then of course, there's like the little optimization. Whenever you're like looking at your expenses every single month, things start to show up that maybe are just on autopilot or autopay, monthly subscriptions and stuff, you're like, I don't care about that anymore.

45:45Let's get rid of that. So regardless, if you're doing better or you're doing worse, I think knowing where you're at in that spectrum and then getting the information is super important in your journey. And that's where I think it's become popular for people to say like, oh, you don't need a budget. You don't need to do all this stuff. But in reality, if you start doing that, you're going to realize because that's about as much time as I spend per month. And it's probably like right around that 30 minute mark. And most people think it's going to take them hours. And it's not. It's just not going to once you get into this routine and once you get into the habit of doing it.

46:14And even when you're first getting started, this feels like a daunting task to you. You could spend five minutes every single day. And I know really, you know, people who are good with money who don't do this. But it's just one of those things where if you want to make sure that you're getting every dollar towards the things that you actually value, like we're talking about here, it is just a great thing to do. So you mentioned that, you know, the goalposts move sometimes for people like they move for me all the time. Has your definition of enough changed or is it something that you're in? Is that That's something you're working on if it has?

46:41Man, I think I'm always working on this. It's changed for good and bad. I definitely feel more ease with like how much I've saved and honestly, just my confidence to make more money if I ever need to. Like that's the great thing about becoming a business owner. You feel very confident in yourself that you can make more money if you need to. But I struggle with moving the goalpost like so many people in the community do. You know, at the beginning of my journey, I was so excited just to reach Lean Fire. And I was like, I could do that. Like I reach lean fire. If I make a little bit extra money on top of that, that's great.

47:13If not, like I can live that lifestyle. And now, well, getting married is one thing that will change that perspective a little bit. But I'm like, man, I want to reach that fire now. So, yeah, I feel better about my enough number and I don't feel uneasy with how much I've saved. But at the same time, there are moments when I'm like, I spiral and I'm like, oh, no, do I have enough? And do I need to keep saving and investing, etc? et cetera. So you recently just got married. So congratulations publicly on the podcast. We've already talked about this in private. You had a really cool wedding, which I think was a very, very awesome way that you did it.

47:44But when I think about, you know, managing money in a relationship and we're doing it on the path to financial independence, have you found any challenges along the way? And what are some of the ways that you and your wife now talk about money? Do you do like a money meeting? Do you just have conversations throughout the day? Or how do you kind of manage money together as a couple? Yeah, luckily, Gabby and I started this long before we got married. We've been dating for, I think, seven or eight years at this point in time. We've known each other for like 11 or 12 years. So we've had a pretty open relationship about money.

48:12I ended up being kind of like her money manager whenever she first started this journey of her own. And then she drank the fire Kool-Aid and I kind of got her excited about this journey as well. But yeah, at the end of every month, I do all my reconciliation and kind of get all the numbers onto the spreadsheet. And then we come back together and we'll look at, I'll highlight line items that I'm like, hey, I want to ask you about these certain questions or, hey, we need to collect a receipt for that. And that keeps us on track. And then we just do a high level cash flow like, hey, how much money has the family brought in this month?

48:42How much money is the family going out this month? What are some big purchases that are coming up in the next quarter? What are some things that we want to continue saving for? How are you feeling about money right now? Do you feel deprived? Do you feel OK? Is there anything that's changing? We'll have this open conversation every single month. and honestly that's been helping us and she's really great at like the the administrative details so if there's like small things that need to get done over the next month on the money side she can usually handle all those and then i kind of look big picture and just help make sure that the cash flow is working pretty well in our our finances when you first got her on board like you guys were having conversations about money and she used to to feel like she was bad with money did you make any mistakes along the way because i let me just tell you why i'm asking this question The first thing I did was when I first got married, my wife and I were trying to figure out our money.

49:33And the first thing I did was at the time we were using like the old school YNAB that you had to manually kind of put everything in. And I pulled it out and I was like, look at this. We're overspending it here, here and here. And this is crazy, yada, yada, yada. And I can tell you right now that's the wrong way to do it. Instead, what I realized was like pretty quickly, I need to start to have these conversations in a way where I'm kind of showing the outcome. And so, hey, if we do this, we can become financially free at this age. Or if we do this, we can take X amount more vacations. And that's what we really wanted.

50:03That's what we both really wanted. But I was looking at the nuance and showing, you know, just kind of placing blame. And I was young then. We got married when, you know, in our early 20s. So it was one of those things where I was also immature. But at the same time, I think that was something that I learned a lesson that day. And it was basically, hey, let's focus on our goals and what we want and our why. And then we can work backwards from there. Did you make any mistakes along the way doing that? Or were you kind of already, you know, in a point in time where you kind of knew how to handle this?

50:31Andrew, I feel so seen by you. That was my exact problem. I think ultimately it was just assuming that people look at and view money the same way I view and look at money. And for me, I was the spreadsheet guy and the optimization guy. And, you know, if you cut these certain things out, you could save this much amount of money. But, yeah, you're right. I wasn't putting the why behind it. I wasn't really looking at what Gabby really wanted from money. And it took me a while to really sort that out. But I kept asking her why she wanted to get good with her expenses. And I found out she wanted to make a career pivot.

51:06And she wanted to feel confident that she could step out of this job that was paying her very well and step into a different job and really have the safety and security that comes along with a healthy savings and good financial practices. And whenever I started painting that for her and her being able to make this change and that she's got to be okay, that's when things really clicked and she started to get excited. And then she kind of moved me out of the way and she just manages her money her own way. So yeah, I think I beat my head multiple times trying to convince her about savings rate and the 4 % rule and financial independence and all that.

51:39And I really just need to paint it for how she wanted money to act in her life at that time. Exactly. I think that's a big key. And I know for many listeners and many people even that we talk to in our academy and things like that, they all kind of mention this. They're just trying to get on the same page. And I think it's just so important to paint that picture, paint the outcome, and kind of get everybody on that same page. And all of a sudden, it's just going to work. It'll work out in your favor. Having those regular meetings and kind of making sure that you both are on the same page, I think is super important, too.

52:08And this doesn't have to be like a, you know, we're going to sit down and we're going to have PowerPoints and TV. You can sit down with a glass of wine and kind of enjoy the time frame. It doesn't have to be this whole strenuous thing. But instead, you can actually kind of try to make it fun. And I think that's one of the cool things when it comes to some of this stuff is just making sure you're communicating like anything in a marriage, but also just making sure that you're in your relationship. You're just trying to go towards the thing that you both actually want, which I think is so important.

52:35Definitely. Yeah. And I think both partners being involved in the finances to some degree is also really important because I think there have been moments that Gabby's just been like, you just do it all. And I've realized that I want us both involved, both invested. Although we don't both have different roles and responsibilities whenever it comes to the family finances. We both ultimately know what's happening and we're both taking some responsibility for that. For sure. And I think that's the huge key overall. Well, Justin, this has been absolutely amazing. I appreciate you so much for coming on here.

53:05I know our listeners are going to love this as well. Can you tell our listeners where they can find out more about you, your podcast, and everything else you have going on. Yeah. If you want to achieve financial independence and have fun along the way, I host a podcast all about that. It's called FI minded or FI minded anywhere you listen to podcast. If you love Andrew, I've had him on the show a couple of times. So just search FI minded Andrew Giancola and his episodes will show up. Awesome. Well, we will link all of those down below in the show notes that you guys can check that out. Justin, thank you again so much for coming on here.

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