Young Changemakers 2026: Jesslyn Laiyenes In Conversation with Camillia Dass

0:01Jesslyn Laiyenes: The Provoke Podcast brought to you by Provoke Media and produced by the international broadcast specialist, Marketeers.

0:25Jesslyn Laiyenes: Hello and welcome to the Provoke Media Podcast. I'm Camilla Das, APAC Editor at Provoke, and today I'm joined by Jessalyn Lioness, Manager of Influence for Asia Pacific at Ogilvy and one of Provoke Media's 2026 Young Changemakers. Now in its third year, the Young Changemakers Program, which was developed in partnership with Wee Communications, recognizes emerging communications professionals from traditionally unrepresented backgrounds who are making their mark on the industry. Now, Jessalyn is one of four professionals recognized globally this year. Her career has taken her through some of Southeast Asia's biggest digital platforms, including Shopee, Tocopedia and TikTok, before she's made her move to a guild fee in Singapore last year.

1:07Jesslyn Laiyenes: She's since worked on campaigns, including the award-winning Vaseline Verified, bringing together her experience in creator marketing, social commerce and brand partnerships. Now today we're going to talk about her career journey and what the rise of creators mean for the future of PR, the challenges she's encountered along the way, and what she'd like to change about the communication industry. So Jessalyn, welcome to the podcast and congratulations on being named a Young Changemaker.

1:34Camillia Dass: Hi Cam, nice to meet you and talk to you today. I'm just happy to do today's podcast and share more about me.

1:43Jesslyn Laiyenes: well we're very keen to find out more about you for sure so before we get into your career how about we get to know you a little bit more okay where did you grow up you know what were your early ambitions and what experiences shaped the person you are today sure so I grew up in

2:00Camillia Dass: Indonesia actually in a small island city called Batam it's very near to Singapore before moving to yeah it's very near it's only like 90 minutes away from Singapore so yeah I started my life there actually before finally moving to Jakarta later on for university and my early career and growing up in Batam I always had this feeling that I wanted to see what else was out there as you know it's a very small city right it's even smaller than Singapore so there's nothing much you can do there and yeah growing up I just had a lot of curiosity lots of what-ifs in my head I really wanted to challenge myself make a difference and see how far I could go beyond the place I grew up in.

2:41Camillia Dass: And that ambition eventually took me to Jakarta to study communications in uni with a focus on advertising and then built my early career there and later to Singapore where I moved here at the age of 24, which is like one and a half years ago, to build my career and life independently. So I came here to SG with actually zero friends, zero connections and zero relatives. I built everything from scratch, from being alone on the weekends and afterwards to now having a lot of friends asking me out every other week. I think those experiences taught me to be more independent, adaptable and also more comfortable in stepping outside my comfort zone.

3:22Camillia Dass: Now, career wise, I started in Inverza Marketing with an e-commerce company in Indonesia. And that interest actually came from something I witnessed growing up in Indonesia. Back then, we had what we called AllShop, which is an online shop, where people sold products through Facebook and Instagram mostly. And then they arranged everything manually through direct messages like WhatsApp, our main biggest messaging platform. Also, back then, we used BlackBerry Messenger. Oh, yeah. That was super, super popular. You know it, right? Of course. And then at some point, e-commerce platforms started emerging.

3:59Camillia Dass: And then I saw how they created new opportunities for sellers and also made shopping more accessible for buyers. Because coming from a small island like Matam, the shipping fee was so crazy that people, they didn't really want to buy things online because of that shipping fee. So the opportunity brought by these e-commerce platforms and the impact was super amazing. So I was very fascinated by how technology could change people's lives. And that curiosity led me into the industry, e-commerce. And as I worked in e-commerce, specifically for the creator division, I became increasingly interested in how creators and social media could influence what people discover and buy.

4:42Camillia Dass: And looking back, I think that's what shaped my perspective today. I see influence as more than just generating attention. It's about connecting culture and consumer behavior to real impact. And now here I am moving from that e-com industry to the agency world to challenge myself and my understanding of influence and communications even more.

5:05Jesslyn Laiyenes: First of all, can I say you're the first person I've met who's like, you know, come from Batam and moved into Singapore. I think that's that's incredible. And, you know, you've worked at some of the biggest companies that we have here. So that's really, really incredible. I think my question for you is how did you go from e-commerce to, you know, now a GOV and doing marketing for a GOV?

5:30Camillia Dass: All of that happened because of my curiosity, I would say. And I think having worked at a lot of these companies, right, from Shopee, Tokopedia, TikTok Shop, and now Ogilvy, has given me a unique perspective because I've experienced influencer marketing from both the platform and also agency sites. Working at Shopee and Tokopedia, because they're e-commerce specific, it taught me to look at communications through a commerce lens. It wasn't just about getting a message out there, but also understanding how that message could influence consumer behavior and also drive real business results. Because all we see every week is just numbers and business results.

6:07Camillia Dass: Then at TikTok, I saw how the relationship between content, creators and commerce was evolving. Content is no longer just a way to communicate a brand's message. It could also drive discovery, build connection, and finally lead directly to a purchase with the existence of TikTok shop. Now, here at Ojo Free, I know it's a completely different industry compared to those three. And at first, I did think a lot. If I could survive in this agency world, as it's something very different from what I've done in the past. Although the foundation of the work might be the same because they're all creator-related, it, but I do know that the ways of working are going to be completely different.

6:47Camillia Dass: However, I wanted to challenge myself and see if I can once again step outside my comfort zone. I've also always wanted to try a role that handles regional campaigns. As I came from a single market background, which was only Indonesia, I feel like there's nothing also wrong with trying to. I see being young as a blessing, an opportunity to try many things, even though I fall. So here I am trying out something completely new for me at Ogilvy. And after moving to Ogilvy, it actually impacts my understanding of communication. It has improved further. Instead of just focusing on a single market or platform here at Ogilvy, I work across different brands, industries, and markets, and also look at how influence could contribute to a broader communication strategy.

7:37Camillia Dass: My current role at Ogilvy also has given me the opportunity to learn from different markets and share my own experience with teams across the region. I think that's been one of my biggest shifts in my career, you know, learning to look beyond what works in one market and understanding how we can adapt those learnings to create impact across APAC.

7:59Jesslyn Laiyenes: Curiosity is so important and like I like what you said also about, you know, how like, you know, every day you're doing something different and you're working across industries, across markets, because in journalism, it's very similar as well, I think. Every day, you're working on something different, even though the goal is communications. The topic sometimes can be so different, and that's always so interesting. I think what I'm interested in finding out more about is, was there anything about the traditional agency environment that surprised you when you joined Oakilway? Because moving from in-house to agency life, that's always difficult.

8:37Camillia Dass: Yes, there is one culture shock for me, which is around building decks. Because coming from an e-commerce background, we didn't really build decks to visualize our ideas and our strategies. What we did was just documents. So we work with Google Documents a lot every day and actually shares numbers. But here in this agency world, I build decks almost every day to visualize my ideas. And it's very fair because you need text, you need pictures to visualize what you're thinking of, to visualize your creative ideation. And that's one of the most biggest covers for me.

9:11Jesslyn Laiyenes: So you're the PowerPoint queen now? Yeah, kind of. I'll come to you for advice for sure if I need a text. Sure. So you're now managing influence across APAC at Ogilvy. And, you know, you're doing this at a time when boundaries between PR, influencer marketing, social commerce and advertising are becoming increasingly blurred. So what's your role actually involved and how has your understanding of influence evolved since you started your career?

9:39Camillia Dass: Great question. So my role involves managing influencer initiatives across APAC from developing strategies for different markets like toolkits to working with local teams to bring that regional campaigns to life, basically execution. I'm also involved in building Odeofus' newest offering, which is Creative Commerce, where we just launched a few months ago, actually, with a live-selling competition that we call Live Fluency League in Singapore. We invited eight influencers, actually live streamers, to came to Odeofus' office. We turned the office into a free market situation where everyone's just selling, shouting, and we collaborated with Vaseline for the products and also the creator commissions.

10:19Camillia Dass: During that event, we show how we can connect influence more closely with business outcomes. My client portfolio is also quite diverse. I've worked across financial services products like Remitly to food and beverage category brands like Cadbury and Coca-Cola. Also personal care products like Vaseline and also the most recent ones I've worked on Canview for their mom and baby line, Johnson's Kids, among many others. And being exposed to such different categories and clients has helped me to understand that there's no one-size-fits-all approach to influencer marketing. Because I feel like for many people out there, many still view that influencer marketing is super simple.

11:02Camillia Dass: Engage an influencer, give them a brief, create content, and then done. But little do they know, it's much more complex than that. Because each brand has different audiences, consumer behaviors, and business objectives. So I've learned to adapt my strategy to what each brand really needs rather than simply applying the same approach across every campaign. Also, earlier in my career working in e-commerce, I naturally looked at influence through the lens of driving discovery and sales. But working at OUF has broadened that perspective. I now see influence as something that can work across the entire consumer journey, from shaping culture and building brand trust to driving consideration of purchase.

11:46Camillia Dass: And I think the exciting part is that these things, they don't have to exist separately. When we can connect creativity, communications, and commerce effectively, influence can create value for both brands and audiences. This is why here at Ogilvy, we've been pushing our proposition on free commerce that we call sales overnight, brand over time.

12:07Jesslyn Laiyenes: I love that. So, you know what I'm interested in? I actually want to know. So we've been reporting a lot about different studies that are essentially finding, you know, whether or not influencers still have the same impact that they used to. So we reported recently on a September study from Brazen and Karma, which found that 61 % of consumers in Singapore and Malaysia discovered products through social media. However, customer-led content was considered the most credible by only 35 % of respondents compared with just 12 % for both influencer and brand-led content. And so everyday consumers were also found to be the most trusted voices overall.

12:49Jesslyn Laiyenes: and 61 % of respondents said that they would trust their everyday consumer over micro-influencers at 17 % and celebrities and well-known personalities at 15%. How are you seeing that in the work that you do? Are you still seeing influencers have the same impact that they used to? And how are you coping with these changes?

13:12Camillia Dass: I think influencers, they still have the same impact and the same reach. However, they need to be backed by community voices because I feel like the market is too saturated now. There's too many influencer campaigns. So people are losing their trust over influencers. They don't know who to trust. They think everything's just advertising. No one's sharing real, actual reviews, right? So that's why in my day-to-day work, there has been an increase in demand of using smaller influencers, micro-influencers, community influencers, and also UGC content strategies Because with the help of these community voices, it helps to create a more credible brand image in the audience perspective, rather than just relying on one big celebrity or one big influencer figure.

14:00Camillia Dass: Reason why is because when you use someone that's closer to the community, it makes the brand feels approachable. It makes the brand feels very real to what people are experiencing in the market. because when you use only big influencer or celebrities, they feel unappreciable nowadays. We feel like their lifestyle is so different from ours. So we don't really know if we can trust them 100 % or not, if we can trust the recommendations or not. So I do feel that using these community voices, smaller ones, it's getting more and more important in this era of influencer marketing that's like everywhere in this entire world.

14:38Jesslyn Laiyenes: And do you think brands are understanding that? Are they just mostly focused on follow accounts and reach? Or are they actually focused on whether creators are genuinely influencing behavior?

14:51Camillia Dass: I think more and more brands are starting to realize that's what's happening in the market now. That's also why we did a campaign with Feseline a few months back. Feseline Verified 2.0 that we call Feseline Originals, actually. So the work was built on the legacy of Feseline Verified. While Fastlane verified and proved which community hacks work, Fastlane Originals took the next step, recognizing the people behind those ideas and giving them a stake in bringing them to life. So instead of just like building a new product and use big influencers, they actually trust the community voices. They listen what the community likes, what kind of product works in the community, what they support and bring that to life.

15:34Jesslyn Laiyenes: I'm so glad you brought Fastlane because I love that campaign. I think it did so well in Cannes and it continues to do well. I'm glad they brought out Vaxlin 2.0. I'm wondering, how do you strike the balance between giving creators the freedom to be authentic and, you know, while ensuring that the brand's message continues to come through? It's all by the brief, actually.

15:58Camillia Dass: So a lot of people think that Info's Brief is very simple. So put the US piece in, put whatever you want to, we want the creators to talk about the brand inside the brief, but it's actually way more complex than that. Inside the brief, it should be a very comprehensive explanation so the creators know how to balance out the brand communication and their creativity, right? So usually we do give the creators the creative direction or the creative angle for the creators to see and to adapt to their own lifestyles. However, besides that, we also give them some creative freedom. So even though there is like an overarching creative strategy for their content, we never limit our creators to create the content or to execute the content.

16:44Camillia Dass: Let's say the content is about building customers' trust on body wash. But then we don't limit how these creators are going to talk about that. Maybe a creator can talk about it in a financial angle. or like GirlMath, for example, or maybe another creator that's more self-care focused can also talk about how to balance work life by using a very comforting body wash moment, something like that. So even though we have a big overall creative strategy, but the execution wise, we always leave it to the creators. And as someone working in influence for quite some time, I do a lot of creator conversations with my influencers to understand what kind of content they want, to give them some advices also to ensure that they don't drive too much from the creative angle.

17:38Jesslyn Laiyenes: Jessalyn, I know this is supposed to be a conversation about you, and I just feel like you are just so knowledgeable about the influencer space. I just want to find out more. Thank you. Yeah, no, let's pivot a little bit. Okay, so one of the reasons why we created the Young Changemakers program was to recognize people who have navigated barriers that aren't always visible from the outside. So when you look back at your own career, what have been some of the biggest challenges you've had to overcome, whether personally or professionally, besides what you shared with us?

18:09Camillia Dass: Okay, I think one of the biggest challenges was finding the right opportunities to grow and make an impact. Growing up and starting my career in Indonesia, I sometimes felt that opportunities to explore what I was capable of were quite limited. And I genuinely believe that right talents exist everywhere. But not everyone has access to the right platforms or opportunities to show what they can do. When I first started my career, I was also taught to think about impact quite narrowly in terms of numbers, performance and business results only. Those things are important, of course, don't get me wrong.

18:44Camillia Dass: But over time, I started to question whether impact could mean something more. And moving to Singapore at 24 was a very big step for me. I had to build my life independently, navigate a new environment and prove myself in a new market. It wasn't always easy, but it pushed me to step outside what I knew and opened me up to opportunities I had not experienced before. Looking back, I think those experiences have shaped how I see my role today. For me, it's not just about delivering results. It's also about creating opportunities, challenging what's possible and helping demonstrate what talent can do when it's given the right platform.

19:21Jesslyn Laiyenes: Fully agree with you. And, you know, I mean, coming from coming from Batam into Singapore, was there a moment where you questioned whether you belonged in a particular role or environment? And, you know, what helped you to move forward?

19:36Camillia Dass: yes it happened to me uh quite a lot of times and i had a lot of breakdowns actually like is this the right place for me to stay is this the right industry for me to work because again it's a very completely different industry from what i've done in the past but what kept me moving forward is my ambition and my curiosity i always live with this one motto called the limit is only in my head so even though i think i cannot do it let's just try it let's just do it no one knows the future, right? There's nothing wrong with trying. So that's how I cope with everything, with all of the overthinking that I have during the midnights and everything.

20:14Camillia Dass: But yeah, with that mindset, that helps me to move forward.

20:17Jesslyn Laiyenes: I mean, it is very hard. I mean, you came here by yourself, you know, when you were so young, like that's really impressive. Thank you. Now, you know, careers are rarely built entirely on our own. when you think about the people who have influenced your journey, what stands out and what do they do for you that makes a difference?

20:38Camillia Dass: I think I've been very fortunate to have people who shaped me at different stages of my career, actually. My previous managers, they played a big role in how I think strategically. Working across different e-commerce platforms taught me to understand influence through the lens of the business and also the platform. How creators can drive discovery, influence consumer behavior, and ultimately deliver results. Those experiences really shaped the way I approach my work today. So a big shout out to my ex-managers, Felita from TikTok, Zizi and Brenda from Tokopedia, Icha from Shopee, and Sheila from Socialite.

21:13Camillia Dass: It's a whole village. But someone who has really pushed me recently to think bigger is my current manager, James Baldwin, who leads Influence for APAC at OW. So James always pushes me beyond what I think my limits are. He gives me opportunities and responsibilities that challenge me to step up, learn to take more ownership and think beyond what I'm already comfortable with. When I look at who I was a year and a half ago compared to who I am today, I honestly feel like I'm a very different person. The 24-year-old Jess Lynn will then probably even believe what I am capable of achieving today from managing regional work across APAC to helping build our career commerce offering to also getting this recognition of a word from young change makers, Provo Media and doing this podcast with UCAM.

22:01Camillia Dass: So I think that's what has made the biggest difference. My previous bosses, they helped me to shape how I think and James has challenged me to think bigger about what I can do with that foundation. It's also something I hope to carry forward as I grow in my career, recognizing potential in people, giving them opportunities and pushing them to achieve things they might not yet believe, but they're capable of.

22:24Jesslyn Laiyenes: I like that you mentioned that part. I mean, you're obviously progressing through your career. You've ended up in a more senior role than when you started. How do you think about supporting people who are just starting out?

22:37Camillia Dass: Supporting people. So recently, we hired a new intern to assist us in managing campaigns. And let me tell you, managing people is not easy at all. You carry a big burden to shape that person and also give her learning opportunities at the same time. So it's another scope for me, actually, besides my daily jobs. And I'm learning a lot from James how to be a good leader, how to give opportunities for her to shine, and also at the same time teach her how to do those things. Finding that balance is a bit tricky as someone new to this leadership position, but I'm very excited to what comes next and to how I can shape her into someone who can give more impact.

23:25Camillia Dass: So, yeah, I do have that ambition to give that opportunity to my current intern.

23:30Jesslyn Laiyenes: It's very, very important to strike that balance. Like I've had people younger than me, new execs, new interns. And it's always difficult to know when to let go, when to give them space. And sometimes they really surprise you. So that's incredible. I think that's the beauty of managing people. Yes, yes. It's one of the most difficult and most nuanced thing, I think, in the industry in general. Like, you know, across the board, managing people is always going to be difficult. But if the people that can do it right are the ones that, you know, are really good. Totally agree. So, Jesslyn, you've worked on environments where technology and consumer behavior change incredibly quickly.

24:18Jesslyn Laiyenes: When you look at the PR industry today, do you think it's keeping pace with those changes, particularly when it comes to how younger audience are discovering, trusting and engaging with brands?

24:30Camillia Dass: I think the PR industry is definitely evolving, but there's still a gap between how quickly consumer behavior is changing and how we sometimes approach communications. Younger audiences today might discover a brand through a creator, hear about it from a friend, and then go straight to a platform to research or to buy it, not just solely based on media. The journey is much less linear than it used to be. I think this means we need to look beyond reach, impressions, or just media coverage and understand how we are actually influencing people to think, feel, and also do. Coming from an e-commerce and platforms background, I've seen how closely content, community, and commerce can work together.

25:13Camillia Dass: I think PR has a real opportunity to connect those dots even more by bringing together cultural relevance, credible voices, and measurable business impact. That means thinking beyond individual channels and understanding how different touch points work together to shape public perception. It could be through combining our media and creative conversations or communities discussing a brand organically. The key is making sure we are building credibility and trust rather than just simply generating attention and awareness. And finally, understanding how that translates into meaningful outcomes from the brand.

25:49Camillia Dass: And ultimately, the fundamentals of PR haven't changed, I believe. Trust, credibility, and relationships still matter a lot. What's changed is where those relationships are built and how people decide who to trust.

26:03Jesslyn Laiyenes: Speaking of the core tenets of PR, I have to mention AI. So with AI increasingly changing how communication works get done, what do you think will become more valuable in the next generation of PR professionals?

26:20Camillia Dass: I think with the existence of AI, it really helps on how we do communications. It's not something that's entirely bad, in my opinion. Although a lot of people say AI kills creativity, AI kills everything. But I think it's really helpful for us to provide our communication strategy moving forward. We do still need to provide the fundamentals, the foundation, the strategy, thinking from the human side. We need human touch, obviously. But AI helps us to refine and help to check and help to point out which areas we can strengthen more and build a more effective communication strategy. And that will really help our PR strategy, our communication strategy, and our influence strategy.

27:11Camillia Dass: And AI, in my opinion, helps to bring everything together and create some more refined approach.

27:17Jesslyn Laiyenes: I fully agree with you. I find it quite funny when people say that, you know, AI is going to take over everything. And you still need the human at the end of it to, you know, put everything together. I agree. You cannot just let it run. Whatever you put in is whatever you get out as well. So if you're not putting in something good.

27:37Camillia Dass: The problem matters a lot. Yes, it does.

27:39Jesslyn Laiyenes: It does. So if you're not prompting it well enough, then yeah, you're not going to get the full benefits of AI.

27:45Camillia Dass: I totally agree. So human touch is really necessary, in my opinion. Exactly.

27:51Jesslyn Laiyenes: Now, Jesslyn, finally, being named a young change maker comes with the opportunity to help shape conversations about the future of the profession. So if you could change one thing about the PR industry, whether it's how we work, who gets opportunities or what we value, what would it be and why?

28:09Camillia Dass: If I could change one thing, maybe not change, more like expanding the opportunity, it would be how we recognize talent and create opportunities for people in our industry. Growing up and starting my career in Indonesia, a very unrepresented country and market, I saw so many hardworking and talented people around me, honestly. But I also realized that not everyone has the same access to platforms, networks or opportunities to showcase what they are capable of. That's one of the reasons I think initiatives like the Young Changemakers program are so meaningful. They give people recognition, but you guys also create a platform for our stories and perspectives to be heard.

28:51Camillia Dass: I'd love to see more of these initiatives at a local level, especially in underrepresented markets, maybe Indonesia next, where so many people are doing great, great work, but may not have the visibility or access to be recognized on a global stage. because sometimes people don't like talent or ambition. They just need the right platform and opportunity. For me, creating change in our industry means not only celebrating the people who are already inside and visible, but also making sure more people get the chance to show what they can do.

29:23Jesslyn Laiyenes: That is beautiful advice, Jessalyn. Thank you so much for joining me and for chatting with me. It's been lovely hearing about your journey and congratulations again on being named one of Provoke Media's 2026 Young Changemakers. Thank you for sharing. You're welcome. And for our listeners, we'll be celebrating Jessalyn and this year's Young Changemakers at the Provoke Global Summit in Chicago later this month. We'll also be hosting the Global Sabre Awards on the 26th of October. And because it's Halloween, we're encouraging everyone to come dressed in their best costumes. There'll even be prizes for the best dressed.

29:57Jesslyn Laiyenes: So if you haven't already secured your tickets to the Summit and Global Sabre Awards, head over to our website for all the details. thank you for listening and we hope to see you in Chicago

30:11Jesslyn Laiyenes: you've been listening to the Provoke podcast brought to you by Provoke Media and produced by the international broadcast specialist marketers