Debt Doesn’t Have to Run Your Life

22:54that I don't have to pay back as long as I live there for 15 years. I have a car payment. I owe about$23 ,000. I bought about two years ago at$358 a month. And then I have two personal loans with each balance is about$5 ,000. One is$147 a month and one is$121 a month. Okay. And then I have about eight credit cards, but I have no balances on them. Then why have them? Just as comfort? I have them. Well, I have the United card, and I do that to get all my miles, but I don't have any debt on them. Okay. I'm so glad you called in, Matthew. And I just, I don't know how you guys feel about down payment assistance, or I just, I wanted some advice.

23:46Rachel Cruze:Yeah, they're usually not great programs. Either you're having to get a double loan and they do a down payment loan with the mortgage. Like there's that. There's sometimes fees associated with these or strings attached. 15 years in a condo, Matthew? Crazy work. No, no, we're not doing that. We can't do that. You're not going to be in that condo for 15 years, Matthew? Let's take a poll. We have a wonderful studio audience out there. How many of you have been in the exact same place with zero movement and zero change in your life for 15 years? Well, just the kids. We have a school. We have just the high school.

24:22Rachel Cruze:We have school age people back there. They're all raising their hands. The point is, that is not the case ever with anyone's life. I mean, what if you get a new job? What if something happens and you have to move? You don't want to lock yourself into a situation for 15 years. And that's and I would say that with a job. I would say that with a student loan forgiveness thing. I would say that with a mortgage, like anything. If it sounds too good to be true, Matthew, it usually probably is. And this doesn't even sound that good to be true. Yeah, Matthew, you are not in a position, I don't think, to own a home.

24:53Rachel Cruze:I know you want to, and I want you to be able to soon. But right now, I mean, man, you got a car that's almost half your annual income. You got two loans. You're playing the credit card game. I mean, there's just a lot up in the air. I mean, you're not, let's just call a spade a spade. You're just, you don't have a good financial foundation right now. And if you build anything on top of that foundation today, it's going to crumble. didn't you say you're 20 years old yes so why are you in such a uh why do you feel such a rush to buy a house under such um well to the point of finding assistance and not putting a down pay why do you feel such rush well I actually I wasn't I wasn't like technically like in a rush I've been renting for about a year and a half but then I heard about this program I was going to wait a few years and save for the 3%.

25:45And then that's when I was going to do it. But then I heard about this program and I just, I didn't really know if it was that good of a decision. And I wanted to look into it more and I wanted, cause I listen to your guys' show. I watch your TikToks and I'm trying to get out of my personal loans and I think I can get out of that within a year. Rachel and I are going to be your big sisters and help you with this because I think Matthew, you're in such a wonderful place. You're still really young. You're 20 years old. And now is the time to lock in on the habits that are really going to help you solidify that foundation that we were talking about earlier.

26:21And Rachel is right. $23 ,000 car. My first place to start would be for you to have$1 ,000 saved. It sounds like you don't have any saved. So let's get$1 ,000 saved. That's baby step one. I have about$5 ,000. Okay, then that moves us on to baby step two, which if you follow our TikToks, you know we are going to tell you to drain that down to$1 ,000 and we're going to tell you to put any extra savings above the thousand onto your debt, just consumer debt. And let's knock that out. Along with your income, you have the eight credit cards that have a zero balance. If you really do rock with what we're saying, let's go ahead and cut those up because it's just temptation in your pocket waiting to happen.

27:03Rachel Cruze:And you're spending more with them, just so you know, versus if it was a debit card. Yeah, well, I always like pay off my balances and I got built up my miles and my points. But look what you have to show for it. You don't have anything to show for it, Matthew. You've only got a bunch of debt and you were looking over here trying to do a crazy down payment assistant program that was gonna put you in a worse way. So I would argue that what you're doing right now isn't giving you much to show for it. Because right now, if we were putting positive money habits as tally marks, positive and negative, I don't see any that are in the positive just yet.

27:41Rachel Cruze:Besides the$5 ,000 that you saved. Yeah, you got the$5 ,000. That's good. We applaud you for that for sure. But everything else, it's just, yeah, it feels a little, I know. You're playing the game. It's like a little sloppy. I think if you tightened it up and you said, you know what, I'm only spending a certain amount on food every month. I'm only doing this, this, and this. I'm just using my money. I'm going to spend my money in the present, meaning I'm not going to get a bill at the end of the month. And you are like really militant, Matthew, and you maybe even work extra hours. I think you can get this cleaned up.

28:15Rachel Cruze:And you may even consider selling your car. I mean, I don't know how much it's worth, but that's something to look into too, if you want. So there's some levers to pull here that I think will help you get ahead. But continuing to play the debt game and going deeper in debt with this assistance program before you even have an emergency fund saved would not be wise. So no, I would hold off on being a homeowner and start working your way out of this debt first and foremost. But you can do it, Matthew. I mean, honestly, this is, so many people start at this point and they make such progress so fast.

28:50Yeah, and again, 20 years old, I think there's a lot of pressure out there. You feel like you're competing with whatever you see on social media. You feel like you're competing with what you feel like, you know, you should have by now. Some of us are competing with what our parents have. And we're trying to create that life that we just came out of. You know, they've got the homes and the cars and they're taking the vacations. And so I would just tell you, Matthew, that you are in exactly where you need to be. You've got your first job. It sounds like you're making a good amount of money. But now let's lock in on the right habits that are actually going to build a good foundation to where you can build lasting wealth.

29:26And it really does start with taking your money to Rachel's point and deciding what you're going to do with it. If you make the right choices with your own income, you will not have to borrow a dime from anyone until, you know, when you come time to buy a house. That's fine if you want to do a small mortgage there. But do you see what I'm saying? Yeah. Yes. It's powerful.

29:43Rachel Cruze:All right. We got Angela from Facebook. She said, what are your thoughts on making micropayments to pay down debt at the end of every pay cycle? I may have$20 to$30 left in my budget. Should I go ahead and throw that at my smallest debt to lower the balance or throw a little bit at each one? So I liken this to on a Saturday morning if you've ever had like a huge list of chores. Yes. And you're like, all right, I'm going to do a little bit of the gardening, but I'm not going to finish it. I'm going to kind of do the dishes, but not finish it. I'm kind of going to put a load of laundry in, but not finish it.

30:12I'm going to vacuum half of the room, but not finish it. Like you will have spent the whole day toiling and not have one single thing to show for it. Completed. Nothing completed. But how great would it feel to just vacuum and then check that off your list to finish the dishes? Check it off your list. It's the same thing with debt. Finish one. Focus on the smallest debt. And that goes for anybody listening. Whatever your smallest debt is, you might have 10 debts. I challenge you, focus on the one debt. Make minimum payments on everything, but focus all your extra margin to the smallest debt. I promise you, you will pay it off quickly and you will feel so much better being able to check that one thing off your list and you'll be motivated to tackle the next thing.

30:58Thank you.

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32:51Rachel Cruze:If you're wondering why we keep mentioning the baby steps, it's because they are really the foundation on everything that we teach. So if you are new here, start there. We can have a link down below to walk you through what those are. But the seven baby steps really is your guide to what to do with your money from feeling possibly out of control, feeling like you're paycheck to paycheck, you have nothing to show for it not a lot in savings to all the way all the way to baby step seven which is everything's paid off including your house you're doing retirement kids college fund is funded you got you got money in the bank and you just are feeling great so it gets you there it takes take some years take some time it's definitely a we always say it's a crock pot not a microwave around here but man the journey it's worth it okay so let's do a quick teaching on this because i think it's worth it so seven baby subs let's just go through them real quick because we started with the last caller.

33:42Baby step one, you get the$1 ,000 saved. Baby step two, you pay off all your debt except your mortgage using the debt snowball. Baby step three, you're saving three to six months of expenses. Baby step four, you're investing 15 % of your gross. Baby step five, you're putting aside amount of your choice to a 529 or college plan for your kids. Baby step six, you're putting aside extra money to pay your house down. Again, up to you how much you want to do that. Baby step seven, you live and give like no one else. And by the way, if you're thinking of buying a house, that's back in baby step three.

34:12We call it 3B. You can save for a down payment. But I said all that because I want to say sometimes people are like, Jade, Rachel, baby steps in today's economy, that really feels like giant leaps to pay off your debt to save for a down payment. And so I just wanted to take this moment to think about a question that I get a lot of times on social media, which is, where can I start before that? Like, is there anything that I can kind of do to kind of like ease my way into these steps? And I thought that that's a very fair question. Yes, yes. And the first thing is, and this is so important, and a lot of people glaze over it, but you really can't do the baby steps unless you have a budget.

34:55That's thing one. So many people will kind of ramp, try to ramp into the things we teach Rachel, but they don't have a budget yet. So if you haven't done that, that's precursor. Like, let's do that first. And then the second one is something that I think in many ways is very easy to do, but it costs people a lot mentally. And that is the very first step that you can make for yourself is simply to say, I'm not going to borrow anymore. And if you're sitting there watching this and you're like, gosh, this feels overwhelming. Can you just start there? Can you start with saying the credit cards in my wallet?

35:29I'm not going to scan them anymore. I'm not going to look to debt. I'm not going to drain my 401k and put that into practice month after month. And when you feel like, oh, gosh, I feel like I'm actually able to use my own income. Now let's start with baby step one. And I think that that's a very reasonable place for anybody in today's economy, no matter what you're facing, it's a good place to start. It's great.

35:52Rachel Cruze:All right, let's go to Sophie in Providence, Rhode Island. Hi, Sophie. Welcome to the show. Hi, thank you. How are you guys doing? We're doing great. How can we help? I came here looking for some advice. I'll tell you a little bit about myself. I'm 25. I'm a construction project manager. I make six figures. I have about$220 ,000 fully invested. I have no debt. I own my car. I live really, really cheaply. Well done, Sophie. I feel like, thank you. Thank you. My parents taught me well. They're huge fans. And they made it very clear that this is how we live. Sophie's 25, making six figures like this is how we live.

36:36Rachel Cruze:We do it. Hey, it's worked. It's worked. It's pretty amazing. They didn't give me an option. They said, this is what we do. they sent me to college and they said like go do well for yourself i love it i love that sophie awesome so yeah things are pretty great personally except for one thing i've been on and off with a guy for over three years now and i think i think dude money it's always the guy you think he does what i think he hates money a combination of being afraid of it and hating it What do you mean by hate it? He doesn't have a career. So he hates working. He hates working. He thinks rich people are evil.

37:22And he's your boyfriend? Do you find him really attractive? So we're both kind of very outdoorsy. We do a lot of skiing, mountain biking. We have a great time together. But then once reality sets in about once a week, when I sit him down and say, like, what are you doing?

37:41Rachel Cruze:it's not so good. So he's just mountain biking during the day. He's just flexing those muscles. How old is he? So he's 29. We've known each other for over three years. He bounced around at different jobs, mostly part-time. And you think you can change him? Because that's what this is boiling down to, right? You think that if you have enough conversations with him after three years, you can change him into being more like you? Not even more like, maybe more like me. I don't know. I always ask him, like, do you want a future? And he's like, well, we don't know what we're doing in the future, so we don't need to support.

38:21He's told you, Sophie. He's told you. I guess. If he hadn't told you in three years, you're not listening.

38:30Rachel Cruze:Sophie, I am, it's very interesting because to me, I'm like, man, I bet he's like a really fun friend, but to have a life partner like that, with the numbers you gave us and how solid you are, I'm kind of shocked he's still around. I mean, I think that he's hoping that we stay together and then I can kind of. I bet he is. What are you hoping? He's got a girlfriend making six figures. I mean. Heck yeah. You're a catch. I'm just. Thank you. I just hope that one day he just wakes up. How many years? Okay, let's play this game because you're 25, you ain't getting any younger, and you've been in this for three years with this guy.

39:16We have to set boundaries and respect your time and his time. So let's just say in your perfect world or in a fair world, how much time do you think that you would give this to either see some sort of forward movement or not? Is it a six month, like in six months, if he's still talking the same talk and walking the same walk, I got to walk. Or is it I'm accepting him for who he is and I'm just moving past this and that's that on that or I'm letting the relationship go? I'm tempted to accept him for who he is, but a year ago when he didn't have a job, I gave him six months to get one and then he got one, but he hasn't saved a penny.

39:56But don't you feel like you're mothering him if you don't get a job, if you don't get up, if you don't do your laundry?

40:03Rachel Cruze:Sophie, here's the harsh reality. It is. I bet he's not a bad guy. I think he's lazy and he's a little bit in the clouds with all of his theories about life. That's not reality. But what the biggest problem is your value systems do not line up. Sophie you're going to be if you go forward with this what marriage is going to look like in five years is you're going to you're going to probably be the breadwinner he's going to probably have a level of resentment at any level of because you're probably the top one percent if you have 220 thousand dollars invested you are the rich person he's talking about from a numbers perspective when you look at the average around the country maybe he's what maybe he thinks I'm the evil one yeah I maybe I don't know if you're not today you will be but it's yeah and then I mean and Sophie you're Your entire relationship will be an uphill battle.

40:54Rachel Cruze:And it's not because, and I'm not honing in on just specifically the money piece. It's the way at which you view the world is very different than him. In the big, in the grown up things of life. Okay, yes, y 'all can enjoy the outdoors and like mountain bike together. But when you're actually looking at life and you look at Sophie at 35, 40 years old, like where Jade and I are sitting, with kids and a life, I am telling you, you want a partner who's running beside you, supporting you, encouraging you. You're doing the same to them. There's a level of safety, a level of unity. We are running this race together.

41:31Rachel Cruze:Our household is built on a set of values that we agree upon and that we are running this race, locked arm, hand in hand, and take it on life together. This guy sounds like you're going to wake up every day and have to remind them where his toothbrush is. Yeah. That's pretty much how it is. Sophie, Sophie, girl, fly to Nashville. Come hang out with me and Jay. Please. You got to take a break. We'll take you for a margarita. You got to be done, girl. There's other great guys right now. Yeah, that's what I thought you'd say. Because don't you think... What do your parents say? Not that they get a vote, but what do they say?

42:09He left. He wasn't around for a while. And they were pretty happy. and they were like, nice kid, but when's he going to wake up? And then he came back around and they were like, oh, no.

42:18Rachel Cruze:Yep. I would say follow some wisdom from people. You know what to do. And again, still be friends. I mean, poor guy. You can be kind to him, but is he going to be a lifelong partner for you, Sophie? He's not my pick for my daughter, that's for sure.

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43:58Rachel Cruze:Welcome back to the Ramsey Show and the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. I am Rachel Cruz here with jade warshaw and we are answering your questions we have alicia on the line and she is in buffalo new york hi welcome to the show hi thanks for having me so my question so i'm 30 i after taxes i make 72 000 and i am just completely babysat number one so i'm starting to pay off my debts and i did my snowball a couple days ago and one of the collections on my debt has went to court recently and still being like gone through the process before they serve me. And I'm just wondering if that's my highest collection.

44:35Like it's like my last one of my snowball. Should I reprioritize and move that up so I can clear that issue out of the way or just wait for it to like roll through the motions and just see what court does? How much is it?

44:51Rachel Cruze:$3 ,693. Oh, do you have any money? Like do you have a thousand bucks saved? That's in my baby fund. Yeah. Yeah. and your baby step one okay okay because i'm wondering since it's all the way in collections and they're you know at the point of suing you if you can settle with them but you would need some money to put up front to say hey i have this amount um i'm wondering how quickly go ahead i make so um like my minimum monthly that like do like and that's on my coat my that's now i make around$1 ,800 a month on those. And then my monthly bill that I pay is$2 ,500. So collectively, I have to pay out$5 ,300, but I make about$6 ,000 a month.

45:38Okay. So I can save up that extra$700 and move that to the very top, but I need a lease. I feel like I need 50 % to offer them. And I just don't know if I should just... I could pay off eight accounts within that$2 ,100 between pay later than my small collections and my small credit cards that I just closed. But I'm in between a rock and a hard place. So you wouldn't have the money to cover the minimums while you stack up? Because I don't think you need to save 50%. I think if you get to a quarter of this, they might take it. like 25 cents on the dollar so that would be that calculation would be

46:30if it's three thousand dollars let's look for seven to nine hundred bucks yeah so that's about that's like six weeks of just not paying my my that's not it's just six weeks of not doing a snowball well you're doing minimum to begin with it's not that you're not doing the snowball because you can you can pay the minimum so you can pay the minimums on everything we're just expediting this because they're take they're suing you and so let's make sure if it hasn't happened yet let's try to go to the table one more time and say before this makes it to court can we just settle this is all the money i have and consider it you just tying up a loose end yeah you're still doing

47:10Rachel Cruze:because you're still paying off debts you're going to the right direction yeah you're just kind of re-ordering it because of your situation. We would say the same is true if you had an IRS debt. We'd say move that to the front, even if you're like, oh my gosh, but by the time I pay off half of that, I could have had four other debts paid off, right? It's just you're re-ordering it because of what is happening and because it's stuck in collections. But you sound motivated. Yes. I do. I live with my boyfriend. He's very fortunate that he makes very good money for what he does and he pays utilities and rent like he pays the majority of the mortgage and he pays utilities and food costs so i looked at my i pulled up credit reports a few weeks ago and it made me sick like i don't understand how i just turned 30 this month i'm like i don't understand how i'm 30 with three degrees and consumer debt with my car i owe 41 000 yeah oh wow tell us about your car um it's 18 Subaru and Preza.

48:14Two years ago, my old car, which was almost paid off, got totaled, and I was not in a credit situation to get a good interest like I had on my previous car, so my car currently is sitting at 18 % interest. It's about $500 a month. Once I know, I... What do you owe on it? $41 ,000? No,$41 ,000 is collective all-concealed.

48:40Rachel Cruze:Oh, I'm sorry. What's the car? I owe$17. Oh, okay. Okay, that's better. Good Lord. I was about to say, Alicia, put that car up for sale. What's it worth? What is it worth? I'm just curious. About$9. $9? Private sale? And, yeah, private sale. Kelly Blue Book$9 ,000. Okay. And with my snowball, with what I make right now, and that's like I have my main job. I'm a bookkeeper for a law firm, so if I do have to go to court for this case, You know what you're doing. My lawyer is already like, we'll cover you. Don't worry about it. And then I do intercoup on the side too. And like, you know what? I'm completely able to do everything I need to do, pay my money for months and get out of this debt in 15 months.

49:24Good. Yes, girl. So.

49:27Rachel Cruze:We love it. That's what we love to hear. Yes. Well, it's just the idea of you are finally sick and tired of it. And when she opened up that credit report, she's like, oh my gosh, what am I doing? And so she's rewiring everything that she had been doing and making great progress. So well done. All right, let's go to Sarah in Denver, Colorado. Hi, Sarah. Welcome to the show. Hi, thank you for having me. Yes. How can we help today? So I was hoping that you guys could maybe settle a debate between me and my mom. I guess for a little bit of background, I'm 19 and I'm a sophomore in college. I'm currently taking my prerequisites and next fall I'll be attending nursing school.

50:12But for my freshman year of college, I wanted to go to an out-of-state university.

50:16Rachel Cruze:And that was before I realized really how much I would be paying in student loan debt. Yeah, so I ended up transferring back to a local college where I'm paying around$6 ,000 a year. But I still ended up racking up around$26 ,658 in student loan debt. Okay. And$22 ,000 of that is a Parent PLUS loan, and then the remaining$4 ,000 is my personal loan. Okay. So I guess my question would be, I feel like I should maybe defer from nursing school for a year and work full-time to pay off that debt. But my mom thinks that by the time I graduate nursing school, I should be making enough to just pay it off fully.

50:59The$4 ,000 or the$22 ,000? The$22 ,000 and the$4 ,000. Is it subsidized or is it unsubsidized? It's unsubsidized. Ew. Okay.

51:11Rachel Cruze:Are you able to cash flow college? No, not necessarily. Not unless I take the time off. Will you be taking more loans out then to go to nursing school? Yeah. Okay. So, yeah, I would say pause. and I may tell you right now, depending on, and I'd want you to see how long you're in nursing school and is it 6 ,000 a year as well? Yeah, it should be. Okay. I would make it a priority to get through that because I am with your mom. If you get that degree, you're going to make great money, Sarah. And nursing is one of the best fields to work in. So it's fantastic. But I think I would maybe pause and maybe not as much to pay off this debt, but to make six, to put away enough to get through nursing school debt free.

52:06Rachel Cruze:And then when you're out, maybe attacking that. I'm just thinking age stage of life because to get a good career going under your belt, I think is a great step, but I don't want you going deeper in debt. I would not encourage you at all to go to school if you don't have the money for it. So you need the money going forward. And if you can cash flow your way through school, once you're out of school, then look backwards and say, okay, let's knock out this debt.

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54:10Rachel Cruze:We wish we could get to every question, every call on the show, but we cannot. But if you have a money question, make sure to head over to our website and use Ask Ramsey. So Ask Ramsey is our free AI tool And it's built all on Ramsey principles So when they built this tool here at Ramsey Solutions Everything that was fed into this specific AI Was all Ramsey It's calls from the show It's articles on our website So much content was put in there So really any question you ask You're going to get exactly what we would say here on the show So make sure to check it out You can ask your question today at RamseySolutions.com or click the link in the description if you are listening on podcast or YouTube.

54:52Rachel Cruze:All right, let's go to Dallas, Texas. Dallas, Texas. We have Patrick on the line. Welcome. Hey, everybody. Thanks for having me on. So my question is this. I am a small roofing company here in Dallas, and I have such an up and down income. One month I may bring in$8 ,000 to$12 ,000 and then not bring in anything for the next month or two. So my question is, how do I incorporate the baby sets with having such an up-and-down income? I can't count on anything month to month to month. What causes it to fluctuate in such a high regard? Well, our main busiest times for roofing are in the spring and in the fall.

55:44And so it's just a matter of, yeah, yeah. Just getting jobs in.

55:52Rachel Cruze:Okay. So like I said, I'm one of the smaller guys here in the area, not, you know, great big giant. So I don't have a huge sales force out there generating leads for me either. So when you, if you're between eight to 12, what I would start with is what, what do I need? Like, what does it take my budget to operate? so let's pretend it's$4 ,000 or let's say$6 ,000. What I'd be doing is on the months that I make more than$6 ,000, I'd be putting a little extra aside in like a Peaks and Valleys account so that if I have a month where I don't make any, I can, or I make less, I can pull from that and kind of keep myself floated.

56:34But I'm caveating that by saying, if you know that there is a time of year that we just don't do business, I'd really be interested in finding what I can do to supplement those months. Cause I, it never feels good to have a month where you make zero. And I would love for that to be your goal. Like, even if I have this peaks and valleys account, even if I haven't set it for two months, what else can I be doing? What else can I do? Right. Well, the, the ultimate goal is to get, you know, an emergency fund of, you know, roughly 36 to 48 ,000, just sitting there to bite me over in the slow times. but like I said, it's just getting enough jobs in.

57:13The thing is, though, I wouldn't want you to feel that way because this is not an emergency. This is something that you foresee coming. Yes, you know what's happening. It's just part of your month to month, and we can plan for that. But if you're thinking about I need 48, you know, or however much money there for three months of$0, that's the part where Rachel and I are saying that we can fix that with work. We don't need to have three months of zero income coming in. Fair enough? Right. Yes, ma 'am.

57:45Rachel Cruze:So, yeah, having that fund over there is going to be very, very helpful. And then beyond that, just saying, okay, you know, if I need$6 ,000 to operate and I'm making eight, let's put some money in that Peaks and Valleys fund. Let's put some towards a true emergency fund of three to six months of expenses. Because do you have any consumer debt, Patrick? Yes, ma 'am. I've got about$30 ,000 in credit card debt. And unfortunately, that's kind of what I'm using to tide me over in these slower times. Oh, gotcha. Okay. So yeah, so more than ever, and it may be you over committing yourself with work and extra work just to get your head above water so that you can not only pay your bills for the winter months when you know that that's coming, but also to start working your way out of this debt.

58:34Rachel Cruze:So for you on the slow months, because on the good months, if you're making 10 grand, yeah, you're able to shuffle that around and use that. But when you're not making anything, something has to be coming in so that you don't go deeper in this credit card debt. So that'd be my first goal. Get your head above water. And it's probably going to mean working a second job on those slow months. Yeah. All right. Let's go to Hannah in Atlanta, Georgia. Hi, Hannah. Welcome to the show. Hi. How are you? Hi. We're doing great. How can we help? um i my husband and i just started taking fpu at our church and we're currently in baby step two um and we are debating on taking our money out of our cd that we have and paying off all of our debt um i think we should and my husband doesn't he thinks if we do that it'll just be saving us and we won't learn any lessons almost like he wants us to suffer a little bit So I just wanted your opinion.

59:33How much is in the CD? A little over$52 ,000. And that's more than enough to cover all of your debt? It would pay all of it minus around$2 ,000. And is he saying he wants you guys to feel the pain of paying off the debt? Is that what I'm hearing? Yes, because we have been in debt before. And we've always kind of finangled our way out of it. easily. And so he thinks if we do it again, we won't learn any life lessons and our habits won't change, which I kind of agree with. But he's busting his butt at work to pay for all of our debt. And I don't know, I just kind of need a second opinion. What's the nature of you guys' bad spending habits?

1:00:18Is it credit cards? Is it vacations? Like, what's the one or two things that you're like, man, this is it gets us every time? What is it?

1:00:25Rachel Cruze:Our credit cards. And is it just lifestyle, going out to eat, shopping, stuff for the kids? Is it just life? Yeah, mainly life. Our kids, they're in sports, and it's hard to say no to them. We don't eat out often. Well, did you cut up the credit cards? And our days were frugal. We did. We cut every single one of them up. Good. Well, honestly, there'll probably be some pain in just that, having to say no. You know what I mean? And just having to say no to your having to work these new habits. So I would say I understand his logic. And we always do caution people to say if you had a lump sum from like a lawsuit come in or an inheritance and people are going to throw this amount of money and be debt free.

1:01:09Rachel Cruze:We say to do it. So we never tell you not to. But we do caution people. Okay. But this has not changed your behavior. So I really appreciate his perspective. Like he's done. He's like I want to change. I want to change so bad. I want us to hate our lives for a season so we never go back. I appreciate that. But also to get you guys to a place, the fastest place to start building wealth. And that is to use this money. Stop making payments. Stop paying interest. Pay it off. Get it paid off. And then maybe there's still some sacrifice, Hannah, to get this three to six months of expenses saved. Maybe step three.

1:01:45Rachel Cruze:And you guys and him work his butt off towards that. But Hannah, how many months have you guys had that you set the budget and you stick to what's on the budget? We just started to try to budget for real this time. We've tried in the past and failed. But he's at the point where we're sitting in church and we're watching these videos about the baby steps and he's tearing up. So no months. No months. But I'm trying. Yes. Oh, yeah. No, we won't fault you for that. Yeah. It helps me understand what he's feeling, which is he's basically saying we haven't proven any of our behavior, even with one month's budget.

1:02:31And I think that he's afraid to Rachel's point. What if we do this and we're right back where we started and now we're there without any savings? Right.

1:02:39Rachel Cruze:Which is fair. It's fair. But what I would tell him, though, Jade, is I think you guys living on a pretty strict budget, Hannah, because you're going to need to do this baby step three soon if you pay most of the stead off. And and you'll still be in gazelle mode. Right. That intensity that we talk about baby step two. There's there's still that in baby step three. So I would use the sacrifice, the I hate our life. We never want to come back here again. Feeling for baby step three through six. Right. Use it for that baby step. And then you guys on a budget is going to be a big life change in a good way.

1:03:14Rachel Cruze:So he's going to feel some struggle there. He's going to feel some struggle with you guys putting up boundaries with the kids. Yes. And you guys putting up your own boundaries with your own spending, having to say no. Like all of that is part of the sacrifice. But him having to work all these extra hours to pay off debt that could be paid off today, I would say let's shift that to the emergency funds. because you guys will have some months of sacrifice to get that emergency fund built. So put your efforts there and be debt-free tonight if you can.

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1:05:25Rachel Cruze:Our question of the day is brought to you by Why Refi. When private student loan payments start getting away from you, it can feel like you are paying for decisions you made years ago. Why Refi helps borrowers explore low fixed rate refinancing options and payments designed around your current situation. Visit whyrefi.com slash Ramsey. May not be available in all states. All righty. Today's question comes from Felix in South Carolina. He says, why do you recommend working with a financial advisor to invest, which incurs a fee, over learning to invest on my own, which avoids the fee? I actually really love this question, and I think it just speaks to the individual.

1:06:07There's plenty of you out there who the only vehicle that you're using to invest in is through your 401k at work, and there's just a few options to choose from. And if you listen to us and you go, okay, I know there's the four types of funds that they suggest, growth, growth and income, aggressive growth and international. I was able to identify one of each. I selected one and the rates of return have been good. Cool. Set it and forget it. Like most of us don't need a financial investor if all you're doing is investing through your 401k, which is fabulous. But then for folks who are like, oh, gosh, I'm venturing out.

1:06:42I have a little bit more money to spend. I am now going into a Roth IRA and there's so much to choose from. And I'm feeling a little intimidated. This is my first go round. And you do want somebody who's in your corner. Then, yes, a smart investor pro is for you. Maybe you're a person who you're like, hey, I maxed out my 401k. I've done some Roth IRAs and I just don't know where to go next. Or I'm thinking about retiring early. What does that look like? Just kind of getting into some more advanced topics. It is helpful to have somebody to help you navigate that. And if you feel like you've got it and you're looking at things and they feel like they're going well, then it's not for you today.

1:07:20But if you need the heart of a teacher and you want somebody to kind of help you along, then we've also got you covered there. So, Felix, if you feel like you can select those four funds, if you're looking at them and they're averaging what we're saying on here, or you're checking the S &P 500 and you're seeing, okay, I'm at least meeting that index or doing a little better, that's fabulous. Keep doing what you're doing.

1:07:43Rachel Cruze:Yep. And I would say, too, a great financial planner, you guys, looks at more than just your investments. They're looking at your entire financial picture down to taxes, estate planning, even a way, you know, through your giving, you know, certain funds that you can do to on interest that's made. So you don't pay taxes there. I mean, like they really can look at your whole picture and be the most efficient with your money. That's why I love ours that, you know, we have ours that we meet with every January. and he still teaches me new things, things that change in the market, whether there's regulatory or regulatory.

1:08:18Rachel Cruze:That's a good word. Yeah, just made that one up. Regulatory is official. Yes, that change in the market and the laws and the amounts and all of it. It's an ever-changing industry. And so having someone that this is their life and that a lot of them can find funds that beat the S &P 500, you know some good mutual funds it's just having someone in your corner so i'm with jade if you're beyond just your 401k at work um find someone that's going to look at your whole picture because they are so so helpful what am i trying to say regulations i think with regulations change when regulations change tax regulations i don't know regulatory put it put it i was with it put it in the dictionary just i was put my face next to it oh my gosh we were i was with her content uh some of our content team today and one of them was laughing because she couldn't spell this word right and she's like the robots are going to get me first and i told her i was like i feel that way too sometimes they're gonna see me and be like take her out she's done all right let's go to timothy in idaho hi timothy welcome to the show hey guys how are you guys hi we're doing great how can we help hey i i could use your wisdom in um how to uh start saving up for a cage a caretaker for our son and in particular with how we can do that in between baby steps four, five, and six.

1:09:38My wife and I make a baseline of 110 ,000 and our oldest son has some mental disabilities. He's seven years old right now and he is most likely when he turns 18 or 21 going to need a full-time caretaker. He will not be able to be on his own. What we're trying to figure out, and we talked with the SmartBester Pro, we're trying to set aside some money that will grow over time so that we can afford paying somebody to help our son as he becomes an adult. Because our heart is that our son is able to have a little bit of his own independence and be his own person as best as he can. However, it feels kind of impossible with the numbers that the SmartVestor Pro gave us.

1:10:43He was saying that in order to reach critical mass, we would have to be setting aside $12 ,000 to$20 ,000 per year until he turns 21 in order for a caretaker to be able to make this happen. Can you tell us the numbers of what it would cost to have somebody doing that type of care once he turns 18? Like what's it a month? What's it a year? Right now, like$80 ,000 to$100 ,000. Okay.

1:11:17Rachel Cruze:Yeah, and I think the goal, probably what the smart investor is thinking, is this is probably going to be a lifelong fund for him. And so you're wanting to use the growth off of the principle. It's almost like a retirement, right? The way you look at retirement, I'm going to just live off of the growth and not touch the principle so that it stays there forever, and I can keep this going, right? So, yeah, the numbers he ran,$1 ,000 a month, yeah, probably is accurate. it. I don't know. But I see how that feels like a massive uphill battle. So what and you may not have to do$1 ,000 a month right now, you know, maybe it looks like in three years where you guys are, you're able to put an extra 1500 and kind of catch up to that full amount that you're shooting for for when he's 21.

1:12:08Rachel Cruze:But also I wonder to Timothy, if, if you're not quite there yet, if it's maybe a goal when he's 25? Because I think eventually having that fund is going to be really, really important. But I hear you where it feels like such a long timeline with a lot of money in order to get that. Well, I'm also wondering, and I'm not an expert in special needs care. Let me start by saying that. But when he turns 18, if not 21, won't he be eligible for some form of SSI, like some sort of supplemental money coming in every month from the government? He probably will. The reason why we are hesitating with that is we don't know what that would hold as far as what the government is able to provide.

1:13:00They can change their rules whenever they want. So what we are trying to do is just kind of use that as icing on the cake and become fully self-sufficient. I would look into that a little further because long-term planning, you are going to want this through a special needs trust so that what you do have set aside for him doesn't have the ability to be revoked because it's under his name and it's not protected in that way. Do you see what I'm saying? so I would sit down with an attorney that can help you specifically with that and do the special needs trust so that you're deciding once he's 18 how is this money protected so that it doesn't take away from his ability to receive SSI in other ways.

1:13:45Does that make sense especially if you're thinking hey he's going to be out there on his own. The other idea that I had for you is obviously you guys are taking care of him now. Is there a way that you can prolong that longer so that you can continue to set aside money? And do you see what I'm saying? Can you kind of split the difference on that and say, well, maybe he'll live with us until he's 25 so that we can keep some of that money and keep stacking up this trust and these funds for him? Yeah, we can definitely do that. The challenge is that it is kind of a lot of work. So I just want to be careful of my wife.

1:14:33And maybe you hire some supplemental care, but you're still allowing for the margin for you to continue to set aside. Because you're right, you do have to look long term for that. And so I think as you get closer and if you sit down with somebody to help you plan it, they'll help you decide exactly what you need to do and how to play this out.

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1:16:35Rachel Cruze:up next we have Angela in Toronto hi Angela welcome to the show hi thanks for having me on I'm on baby step four and I'm hoping to get some advice as to whether I should go put myself on a mortgage with my boyfriend of five years. Okay. So you guys are looking to buy a house. He's actually already purchased one and it's more of a retirement property. He retires next year, but I still have five years to retire. Okay. And you want to put your name on the mortgage with him? I was thinking about it and I'm not so sure just given our spending habits and situational factors. What would be the purpose of putting you on the mortgage?

1:17:36What's there to gain for you? I would eventually be moving in there when I retire, but that wouldn't be for a few years. Right, but where you live right now. So let's just pretend what if you just if you're like, yeah, I'm going to move in there. What if you just paid your portion of rent? Why? Why would you feel like you have to be on the mortgage? Did you put money down with him? I did not. I have a feeling that he doesn't qualify for the mortgage without me.

1:18:13Rachel Cruze:I thought you said he already got it. He's saying he's got a he's selling his house and he's bought this property and it's a mortgage of an additional five hundred and fifty thousand dollars. And he's given the bank my numbers as well. Oh, so wait a second. Isn't it weird that he's buying a property without you? Like he's picking it. He's choosing it. It's his retirement, but now you have to, he's putting your numbers with it. Are you getting a say in this thing? Yeah. And so that's part of the reason I have called because my spidey senses are saying something is off here. Me too. Good. Good. We've been together five years and we did have goals of retiring and purchasing a property and he's retiring next year.

1:19:13So he's decided that he found the perfect property and we had looked at some and it was all, you know, he did this all so fast and all of a sudden there's...

1:19:27Rachel Cruze:Yeah, there's a lot wrong with the situation, Angela. One is you never buy a home with someone you're not married to. You have no legal protection. Your name is going to be on this loan with someone that you, again legally are not married to it ends up being a mess okay if something were to happen yeah what if he doesn't pay it's a mess okay so do not buy a home with someone you're not married to that's to you and to every person listening right now do not buy a home with someone you are not married to number two angel he can't afford this home a bank will not give him this loan without you which means the bank who gives loans for a living, this is what they do.

1:20:07Rachel Cruze:They want everybody in debt because they make so much money. They want to give debt out. Even the bank is saying, oh, if the debt maker is saying, I don't want to give this debt, we need someone else. That means they don't trust that he's going to pay it, that he has the ability to pay it. And think about that just for a split second, Angela. If you go on this mortgage with him and month one, he doesn't pay. And month two, he doesn't pay. In month three, he doesn't pay. You're on the hook for that. Right, right. And I already have my own home. Yeah, you don't need that. Exactly. You do not need a second home.

1:20:42Rachel Cruze:If he would like to go retire, he needs to buy a home that he can afford. He can afford the payment. And so he needs to do that in an individual sense without you. And then however your living arrangements are, they are what they are. but there is something about tying your financial life to someone that is so scary. And, and I mean, how old are you? I'm 54. So I've worked really hard my whole life. So Angela, you are, you're toward the end. You're about to finish. You see the finish line. And what this is going to do is this going to take you off course and you're going to be stuck in the woods trying to find your way out when you were on the path.

1:21:19Rachel Cruze:You know what I mean? You were, you saw the finish line and you deviated from it. Don't do it. This is a big half a million dollar deal. It's a big deal. And Angela, you're 54 years old. You know it. You know when something doesn't feel right. And this is it. You're like, man, you're calling us, which is a really good indicator that this doesn't sit right with you. And it doesn't sit right with me either. I agree with Rachel 100%. I would tell him I'd sit down on you guys's next date. And I'd say, you know what, I've been thinking this over and I want you to have the retirement home that you want, but you want to know what it's something you've worked for.

1:21:55We're not married and I think you should do it, but I'm not going to put my name on it. And we can, you know, in the next few years, if we start to think about maybe me moving in with you, I would just like to pay a rent or something like that. We'll figure that out. But my name doesn't need to be on the deed. Yeah.

1:22:12Rachel Cruze:How much does he see how that goes? Yes. That's a great point. See what his reaction is. Do you know what he has in retirement? He has a government pension, but he doesn't have any other savings. So I know he would bring home around$4 ,500 a month. But to take on a$575 ,000 mortgage,$600 ,000 with all the the additional things he wants to do. I just, yeah. Yeah, he didn't have the money for it. And I think it might be me being part of it. Exactly. How much do you have in retirement? I also have a government pension and I've saved about$200 ,000. And so when I retire at 59, I will be bringing home$62 ,000 from my pension a year.

1:23:11Rachel Cruze:Good for you. Okay. And then I have the equity in my home and I have a couple hundred thousand dollars in savings and investment. Yeah, because that'll probably all be close to around$400 ,000 by the time it's all said and done. Yeah, and I know that this is a life-changing decision and I've worked so hard. I just thought, am I crazy? Because when I speak to him, he makes it sound like it's going to be so easy and wonderful. And I mean, I wouldn't be able to do that for five years. Yeah, I don't want to believe that he's being malicious. I don't want to put anything like that. I just don't think he's being smart about it.

1:23:56Rachel Cruze:It's just not smart. It's just not wise for either end, right? Like he can't afford it himself. You don't need to be dragged into it. And so I don't think it's that he's a bad guy. I just don't think he's great with money. Yeah, it's it's and it's going to put a stressor on your relationship. If you do this, it's just going to. And there's no point of doing it. I go back to the original question I asked, which is what's the benefit? There isn't one. The only benefit is for him getting his loan approved. But that's not what you're his girlfriend for. Right. That's not the reason that you're in a relationship to help you get your loans approved.

1:24:30Yeah. You know, and it just boils down to that. I appreciate it. And I respect the show so much that I will take this advice.

1:24:40Rachel Cruze:Oh, so glad Angela. And honestly, I think you'll be better for it. And the beautiful thing is y 'all may look up in three to four years and get married and say, hey, let's go retire somewhere together and live your lives together. Right. I mean, that that would be the hope. But I think that is what's so hard is it's become so normalized to combine things even when you're not married and to the point that you've worked your whole life and you're later on, you know, down the road and in a relationship. And so the same is true when you're 20 or when you're 60, but the same mess can occur on a, on a legal sense that when you own property together, it can get so tangled.

1:25:23Rachel Cruze:and any co-signing, this is even with cars. We get this call all the time that, well, I co-signed for my ex-girlfriend and now she's dating some other guy in another state and won't pay the car, so now I'm stuck. I mean, it's just, it can stay with you and it always ends up more harm than good. Yeah, and I agree. This guy, he's probably not a bad guy. It's just sometimes when you want what you want and you get a little desperate, you start to take desperate measures. And in this case, you unfortunately start taking advantage of a relationship in order to get it. Yes. And I think that's the tough part is like, don't do it.

1:25:55It's not that serious.

1:25:56Rachel Cruze:Nope, not at all. But trust your gut too, Angela. I think that that's another good lesson for everyone, right? If you're in the financial decision making process and you're like, this just doesn't sit right. That is that lack of peace. Listen to that because we are trying to solve for peace as Dr. John Deloney says.

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1:27:37Rachel Cruze:Welcome back to The Ramsey Show and the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. I am Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with Jade Warshaw. And we're answering your questions. So give us a call at 888-825-5225. All right, we got Andrew on the line in Fort Myers. Hi, Andrew. Welcome to the show. Hi, thank you so much. Absolutely. And I really appreciate everything that you do for everyone. Oh, thank you. I appreciate that. Yeah. My question is, I'm not exactly sure how to build a life with my woman, my girlfriend, I guess. We have an eight-year-old who's been together for over 10 years. Oh, okay. Yeah, and so the hurdle that keeps coming up is that she was a widow in her 20s, and her son, she had a son, and he's 21 now, but she had survivor's benefits when he was a teenager, or growing up as he was a kid and through his teenage years.

1:28:37And then now she doesn't. So she would receive her her deceased husband's Social Security. Right. And she becomes of age. And I guess that's a pretty large number because he made, you know, a sizable like a lot of money every year. So so not so I don't understand how to plan all of this. if like she doesn't want to get married until she's 60 years old because she doesn't want to risk that benefit going away what is basically how it is she's choosing some social security over i mean how much could it possibly be has she told you the amount 3 600 to 4 grand a month um she yeah i mean i guess if she said 400 000 a month i'd be like andrew you may not you may

1:29:27Rachel Cruze:be worth that. I don't know. But$4 ,000? Does she work? I get it. Does she work? She does work now. Yes, she works. And what does she earn? She earns like$43 ,000 a year after taxes. What do you earn? I earn$150 ,000 after taxes. So wait a second. We can go and Andrew can put a ring on it and And you guys combined can be making$193 ,000 a year. And she's foregoing that life for survivor's benefits that we don't really know, but maybe they're around$35 ,000 to$4 ,000 a month. Or y 'all combine finances and she's getting both. And she's like, I just don't want to get married because I get to live off this$150 ,000 now.

1:30:11Rachel Cruze:So what's the point? I don't know if it's some kind of trauma from when she was a single widow mom. and she didn't know about survivor's benefits until a relative who was a police officer mentioned, hey, you can receive survivor's benefits. I mean, you're 28 years old, you got a baby. So she looked into it and she got a check every single month up until he was 16 years old. I think you're right. And they were in that time. Yeah. She got it in her mind that I'm not going to do this until I'm this age. And then we got together. I mean, I'm having a really hard time planning. No, you can't plan that.

1:30:46She has some debt. We want to buy property. But how am I going to? I don't think you can, Andrew. This is a I think you're exactly right. I think this is tied to something traumatic. I mean, obviously, she was widowed so young and then she was left in a really tough situation with this child. And who knows, there might even be something that goes further back. I don't know how she grew up, how money was, but there's clearly because this doesn't make sense. It's safety for her.

1:31:14Rachel Cruze:And it feels like I'm going to be okay, regardless of what happens for this$4 ,000 a month. I also feel like there's, you know, this sense of impermanence, you know, that that happened. And now, like planning future things, like she gets hesitant about planning, saving, you know, it's just so impermanent, I guess. She probably, and you've been like this for five years, right? We've been together 10 years. 10 years. Okay. So why now? I'm just curious what now is happening inside of you that's like, golly, this is getting hard. Is it because you're getting your finances in order and you're realizing, gosh, I have a life with this woman, but it's so hard to do anything.

1:31:58I have a hard time communicating with her now because of how it is.

1:32:03Rachel Cruze:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And you've been in a cycle and in a pattern for 10 years. So breaking that marriage or not in a relationship is tough. So, I mean, I would see if she'd be open to sitting down with someone and you both talk through this. Cause if you're not a great communicator in the sense of like, you, you're not able to find the words that you're wanting to say and say, you know, to have a third party kind of walk through some of this and, and honestly, a professional probably be able to pinpoint a couple of things. Cause my goal would be for her to heal, right. On an emotional standpoint so that something like this isn't seen as a barrier.

1:32:42Rachel Cruze:Yeah. But you're able to move forward with your life. I want that for her. It's almost like she's still holding on to this part. And yeah, I. Would she? Would she? If you suggested that, if you said you want to know, I just think that there's some healing still to be done. And I love you. And I want this for you. And I feel like it's starting to hold us back a little bit. How would she react to that? Oh, I think that she'd be open to it. I mean, she's been doing therapy. She's on EMDR. We're actually in a couple's therapy right now. Very good. You know, just to strengthen our relationship, but it's hard to bring it up.

1:33:16And, you know, I'm the numbers guy. She's a little more free spirited. So when I start coming at her with, you know, like I don't even see her bank account. I don't even see her statements. I don't ask. I don't know exactly where money goes, but, you know, it seems to not last very long. but I don't know exactly where it goes, so I can't say on her end. But it's hard to talk about. And then I'm walking around, we're posing as a married couple. I call her my wife, but technically, as far as under God, we're together. But I feel like I'm not walking under his umbrella because we're not married. And then we're not going to get married for another 15 years on my end.

1:34:00You know, she's 48, so I guess it'd be 12 years, but that's a lot of time to not plan together.

1:34:06Rachel Cruze:Andrew, have you guys brought up money, the subject of money with your therapist? Oh, no. Okay. Have not. The last conversation about money was with, there was like financial people with her school system. So she invited me into that conversation for us to like plan together. And I just got real Ramsey on them and they didn't like it. Okay. Like, so she's probably like, Andrew, he's following this crazy, this crazy program. No, well, here's the thing, Andrew, and I know you know this, but just to reiterate that money represents more in all of this than just the money, right? So when we talk about people combining finances, yes, is there a tactical, when you're married, is there a tactical benefit to it?

1:34:49Rachel Cruze:Absolutely. You're functioning out of one account, but it's all about what money represents. and there's a level of unity there that is not, or that is not there because she's holding out for this thing over here that's money related. And over here, she's not letting you in. You don't know how to communicate well with it. And so there's almost this value system that's been broken down in your relationship. And my prayer would be that you guys, once maybe she sees it and she's like, oh my gosh, I want all of me with this guy because we have a kid together, right? At this point. And we want to start building this life.

1:35:29Rachel Cruze:It's not the fact that like, oh gosh, you can't combine money and you can't buy property together. Like all that is very true, but it's underneath what it's representing. She's holding a part of her away from you. So it's almost like you fully don't get all of her. And so that's what I would work for. We work with the therapist with because this is a tough subject for people. And so if you have that third party in the room, I would use that to my benefit for sure, because you guys have created a life together. So she's almost living in this illusion, too. I mean, it's happening. Yeah, their whole life is having to generate around her pain and her trauma.

1:36:25Hey, guys. Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey. Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to RamseySolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's RamseySolutions.com.

1:37:12Well, Rachel, you know what time it is. time to talk about taxes. Matter of fact, did you file your extension on your 2025 taxes? If you did, then you know that the October 15th deadline is coming around the corner. And the good news is you do have a couple of options in order to get it handled. First off, if your taxes are pretty straightforward, then Ramsey Smart Tax makes filing affordable and simple, right? Plus there's built-in support if you get stuck and you need a little bit of help. But if your taxes are a little bit more complex, maybe it's a little more overwhelming or complicated, then you'll need a tax pro to help you make a plan because nobody wants to face the IRS without backup.

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1:38:09Rachel Cruze:All right, let's go to Lisa in Houston, Texas. Hi, Lisa. Welcome to the show. Hi, how are you doing? Can you hear me okay? Yes, we can hear you. Yes. Thanks for calling in. Very good. Very good. You're welcome. I am in trouble here. I basically am a widow, a 58-year-old widow, and I basically was drowning in debt once my husband passed, and I realized I wasn't getting any income from his, who was a doctor. He was a professor at UCLA and taught for over 55 years at that college. He taught medical students. Anyways, long story short, I'm basically calling in to find out how to get out of a debt resolution company's contract that I went online in desperation to sign to help me try to stop all of these creditors from coming after us because my husband and I lived off credit cards because he never carried cash on him.

1:39:13And so we lived off credit cards. And a lot of those credit cards, you know, had my name on them because I was his wife. And anyhow, bottom line is I'm looking through everything and what I had previously spoke to your associate with before I got on the air with you guys was that I had remembered signing my, you know, typing in my name on the computer to sign contracts. But I saw that was like seven pages. Okay. Typed in contracts on my phone that was electronically sent to me. And then I made a phone call yesterday and to this company and asked them to send me a copy of my contract that I signed.

1:39:59And it's a 35 page contract. Now, it went from like not even 10 pages to 35 pages. And I'm just I'm concerned because I'm reading. I printed it out while I was waiting for you to speak to you. I put it out on my computer, on my printer, and I'm looking at everything, and I'm seeing my name typed into these pages of things that I don't even remember reading. Did you already sign it, or you just received it? Have you already signed it? Well, it's got my name typed. It's just, it's no signature. It's just a typed-in name. I understand, but have you electronically signed it yet? Have you okayed it and said yes?

1:40:42Well, I, yeah, I mean, it was back in, I first signed all these documents with this company in March 15th of 2025.

1:40:50Rachel Cruze:Uh-huh. Okay. In March. But you were saying the contract you signed was 10 pages. Yeah, that's what I remember reading, because I would have never, like, been able to read 35 pages. But did something change beyond the size of the contract? Did something with this, is it a consolidation company? Yeah, it was a company that was going to help me repay my debt by me paying them a certain amount of money. And they were opening an account for me. Yes. And then paying out of an account that I held. That's right. These certain creditors. And they were going to try and try and get these debts reduced dramatically.

1:41:30Well, not dramatically, but they got some reduction. But then I understand that they're charging me a 25%. Yes, ma 'am. So let's try to solve it. Let's try to solve it because you're exactly right what these companies do. They'll take your payment and they'll set up an account and they're going to pull that money. And in the meantime, they're going to take that time to settle with the other creditors that you owe. Those are all things that we would tell you you can do on your own. And we think you should do it on your own. So if I were in your shoes, Lisa, I would contact them and I would say, I want to get out of this contract.

1:42:07And there may be some fees associated. There may be some what we would call stupid tax, which is just money that you end up paying for realizing there was a better route. And there may be some of that attached to it. But what I'm hearing is that you signed up for a service. You're not getting exactly what you wanted from the service. and it's creating stress and confusion because the contract is this and then it changed and my name is typed on there electronically. It's not serving you well. So let's go ahead and wash our hands of it and let Rachel and I help you. So how much debt is there still outstanding that has your name on it?

1:42:41Well, that's the curious thing is that I have a dashboard on my cell phone that I can access their own app for this company. And just three days ago when one of my kind, one of my, basically I'm a caregiver during the day and one of my client's dad is retired now and he used to be working for an engineering company. And he overheard me talking to a company that I hired, this company that we're talking about on the phone. And he said, you know something, you know what they're charging you to do this? because I found out that he's the one that he was training a lot of people to do Dave Ramsey's program, his financial program at the church he was with.

1:43:28But Lisa, we're going to let it go, though. We're going to we're going to get out of this. It's it's how it's stressing you. Because I asked you the question I asked you is how much money do you still owe? Oh, OK. I still owe$19 ,000, but according to their website, when I pulled it up yesterday, over$20 ,000 now. So it's going up instead of down.

1:43:55Rachel Cruze:Yeah, I would, first and foremost, I hope there's no, I don't trust these companies. No. And I hope there's no weird fraud or something happening that you signed a 10-page, well, you just signed a 10-page contract. Yeah. And unless there are addendums in there or something that you didn't open up fully, and once you got the full contract, it really originally still was 35 pages. I'm just praying that they're not pulling one over on you. You know what I mean? That they've changed the deal and used your name. Not only that, but now the first page of this contract doesn't even have the name of the contract that I signed.

1:44:35It has some other name on it. different company name yes sir yes ma 'am yes ma 'am well company yeah and sometimes companies buy other companies and and that may have happened i i feel like there's a lot going on here but what i what i would say your homework is is let's call them today and say you know what i'd like to cancel tell me what i have to do to cancel yeah and they're probably going to say whatever however much money you've paid into this account there's probably going to be a fee associated and you're going to take that hit. And I wonder, I don't know that I'm right, but I wonder if the discrepancy that you're seeing is what they held in the account versus what was actually paid.

1:45:15Maybe you're seeing that they're still holding that money and it hasn't been paid yet. I don't know.

1:45:21Rachel Cruze:Because some of these companies, Lisa, they will not pay the debt and they'll let it go into, they'll basically make it go into default for them to go in and then negotiate for a lower rate. But it trashes your credit in the process. But that's how a lot of them get a quote unquote deal on the debt. But they just don't pay it. And then it goes into default. And then they go and try and negotiate with these debt companies. That's what a lot of these programs do. Where what Jade was saying, just so you know in the future, you could have done that. You could have just not paid, right? And you could have done the negotiations.

1:45:57Rachel Cruze:But what we would tell you is that you are the secret of getting out of debt. It's you. And so by not depending on a company to do it for you, because they are, they're going to charge you more. They're going to trash your credit in the process and all of it. So do exactly what Jade said. You need to see how can you get out of this contract. You're probably going to have to pay something, and it's not going to be a fun pill to swallow, but you've got to do it. And then you've got possibly$19 ,000 left of debt, and then that's when you do the debt snowball, Lisa. You're going to list your debts out smallest to largest, regardless of the interest rate, pay minimum payments on everything and pay off that smallest debt first.

1:46:33Rachel Cruze:But you guys, listen, these companies go after vulnerable people in situations. And someone like Lisa, who was widowed and is scared, and they feel like the way out. They are not, you guys. You are the way out of your debts. Do not go and forfeit and give all your rights over to these companies.

1:47:05you've heard from me and the Ramsey personalities for years, but nothing beats actually getting together in person. That's why we created the live like no one else cruise for seven days. we're vacationing with you and 2 ,500 Ramsey people in the Western Caribbean with live shows, us, new content, us, and more. If you're on Baby Step 4 or beyond, come spend the week with us next March. Choose your cabin at RamseySolutions.com slash events or click the link in the show notes.

1:47:56Rachel Cruze:this show has helped you think differently about money do something that you never thought you could do with money because you've applied the common sense principles that we talk about on the show we want to hear from you so share your thoughts in the comments uh share an episode of this show with a friend and you know get the word out because if it's helped you i know it can help other people. All right, let's talk to Grayson in Greenville, South Carolina. Hi, Grayson. Welcome to the show. Hey, it's so great to speak with you. Can you hear me okay? Yes, we can. Thanks for calling in. How can we help?

1:48:28Yes, ma 'am. So I am 23 years old and married. I work part-time at a cell phone store, and I actually own an electronics reselling business that originally operated kind of as my part-time job. And it's grown a lot more since we first started. So my question is whether I should keep the current part-time job I have at the cellular store and push hard to pay off the house first, because we do have a mortgage, or if we should just go all in full-time with the business and leave the part-time job at the cellular store. Wow. So is your electronics resale, are you making more there than you are at the cell phone store?

1:49:11Tremendously, yeah. I have the numbers if you want the numbers. Yes, I do. Yeah, so I bring in about$2 ,800 because I've just moved down to part-time,$2 ,800 at the cell phone store. And last month we netted$20 ,000. Oh my gosh. Dude, what are you waiting for? Yeah. But truly, how long have you been making that kind of money on the resale business? So this month and the last month were the biggest months so far, definitely for profit. So it was$17 ,000 this month so far net. And then last month was$20 ,000. The previous month, I think, was like$12 ,000 or$13 ,000. But it's just grown proportionally since I've went part-time.

1:49:52So as I've been able to invest more time, it's increased. And is it just you, or do you have anybody you're working with? So, yeah. So my wife, actually, she worked for the same company, and she got laid off. So she's actually my kind of behind-the-scenes person, if you will. So she does, my company does pay her. So we are currently taking in some money from the business. But other than the salary for her, everything is getting invested right now back into the business. And it's kind of just piling up right now, to be honest. I mean, are you keeping the cell phone job just for like, I don't know, do they pay your insurance?

1:50:27Is there some benefits attached to it that you're reluctant to let go of? Or why are you keeping this? It feels like it's draining your time that you could be pouring into this business and growing it more. Yeah. So right now, I literally work like four or five hours a day, and it really is for insurance. The self-pay cost is just ridiculous with the plan that we have provided through the company. And the benefits are really good. So, you know, and it gives a little bit of cushion, a little bit of peace of mind. But right now, I think the reason why I haven't left is because I'm trying to stall for a little bit more time to put a little bit more money back into our emergency fund.

1:51:00I think we have like$10 ,000 or$11 ,000 in our emergency fund in retirement. It's right around$28 ,000 or$30 ,000. But with what you're making from the electronics resale, wouldn't it be fair to say if you took that same amount of time and poured it into the business, don't you think it would pay for the insurance? Oh, I'm sure it would. I'm sure it would, to be honest with you, yeah. I mean, that's the type of opportunity cost math you need to do because one thing about your time, what you got is what you got, right? And so you can't afford to be spending your time in a non-fruitful way. And I really do think if you went from 13 ,000 to 17 ,000 to 20 ,000, and all of this is you moving away from that job, you went from being full-time to being part-time, now your wife is working on it.

1:51:47And all that is generating this income. I think it's fair to say, gosh, if I add back those four hours a week or those four hours a day, whatever it is that you're working, you're going to make back the$2 ,800 that they're paying you plus whatever the benefits are for your insurance. Yes, ma 'am. And the thing about it, too, another thing slightly off of that is the mortgage itself. So we have$198 ,000 owed on that mortgage. And, you know, again, we are about to hit a personal target where we can move a large sum of money from the business. Because it's not, you know, we have an EIM, but we still haven't gone to S Corp at the whole other conversation and a can of worms.

1:52:30But we are about to move a large sum of money over and pay ourselves, quote unquote, to put our emergency fund right where we need it to be. So, you know, moving forward, do you think it'd be a good idea to start, you know, trying to stockpile money, push it towards the mortgage and kind of free up that money? Yeah, I would be. I think so. I think whatever you can pay yourself to accomplish your goals is and still grow the business is fair. I think that's what we would all do. That's the purpose of having having your business is it's generating income for you and it's generating income that affords the lifestyle you want.

1:53:04And in this case, part of that lifestyle is paying off your debt. So I think that's I think that's totally fair.

1:53:10Rachel Cruze:And Grayson, I would say this, too. I think if something crap hit the fan and you had to go back and make$2 ,800 a month somewhere else, you could. It's not like you're leaving a massive career that you're like, oh, my gosh, if I step away from this, there's no way I can enter in back. I can't get back in. Right. You could find that job again if you needed to in 12 months, you know? Yeah. If worse came to worse, but I don't think it will. I think you guys are on an upward trajectory. And if you're looking to source insurance, because you're right, when you're self-employed, it is expensive. My husband and I went through that.

1:53:40it's tough to go out in the market and just find a plan that supports your family. It is expensive, but check out health trust financial. They'll help you source the right plans. And that's who we suggest here on the Ramsey show. And if I were in your shoes, that's exactly who I would use. And just know that kind of start to view that as a benefit of doing business. Like, Hey, I, I am my own boss. I get to make the decisions. I get to do my own benefits. I get to pay myself. I get to set my hours. Like start viewing it as a benefit instead of a negative. That's a sign that you're making money.

1:54:12And that's a really good thing.

1:54:13Rachel Cruze:Well done, Grayson. All right, let's go to Tanner in Nashville, Tennessee. Hi, Tanner. Welcome to the show. Hi, thanks for taking my call. So my wife and I are currently on baby step two. Our payoff date for all of our consumer debt is February of next year. And then we should have our emergency fund completed by May of that year as well. At the moment, we have a five-year arm. We know it wasn't the best idea, the bank. Just in that direction. But it matures in January of 2030. Our current mortgage debt is$388 ,000 at 6.99 % interest. And the monthly payment on that is$2 ,631. We want to switch to a 15-year fixed rate after the arm matures in 2030.

1:55:13And we would like to go into the new mortgage with as little left on the house as possible. What we were thinking about is instead of putting 15 % on retirement from May of 27, which is when we have an emergency fund fully funded, until that maturity date of 2030, We would like to focus aggressively on paying the mortgage down. We've worked through the Ramsey Mortgage Payoff Calculator, and it shows that if we put an extra$3 ,000 on the mortgage each month in that time period, that we would go into 2030 with only about$266 ,000 left on our mortgage. And this would allow our new mortgage payment to be within the 25 % take-home pay guidelines that you guys suggest.

1:56:00What's it at right now? What percentage is it at right now? I am not sure off the top of my head. Is it above 25 %? What is it? Around 27%, I believe. Okay. Okay. I'm just a little, I mean, I'm always nervous about an adjustable rate mortgage, especially, I mean, with mortgage rates right now. Rates changing. There's no part of you that's just wanting to go ahead and, I mean, why wait till it matures? Why not just go, I'm going to refinance this thing. It's already at 6.99%. So you're not far off from what it would be if you were to lock in just a fixed rate 15 year. Is your current one 15 years at 30?

1:56:45it's a 30 year with a balloon date of five years. And I'm just, I'm just going to tell you, I'm nervous about that because if you were to swap to a 15 year fixed rate, I think that it's going to, I don't know what it's going to do to your payment, but I think it's going to move it up a little bit and how much home you can afford and your 25%. But if I were you, I'd be trying to get out of this adjustable rate mortgage. That'd be thing one. and then my goal would be to get then to a 15 year.

1:57:40you

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1:58:43Rachel Cruze:Our scripture of the day comes from Deuteronomy 28, 12. The Lord will open to you his good treasure, the heavens, to give the rain to your land and its season and to bless all your work of your hand. You shall lend to many nations, but you shall not borrow. Theodore Roosevelt said, when you play, play hard. When you work, don't play at all. I don't know. I think we can kind of play at work a little bit. yeah i don't know we can have some come on theo i don't know lighten up theo he's an intense man good for the history though all right let's go to christina in atlanta georgia hi christina welcome to the show hi thank you hi yes thanks for calling yeah i'm calling because i currently am dating my boyfriend would be dating for like close to a year almost and our income levels are very different and I just really don't know how to handle that in terms of like compromising in the future if I want it alive with him that mean like either I have to kind of like lower my current um life in a way or start paying for part of his stuff um and I just feel like the discrepancy is really big okay what's what is it what do you make what does he make I make like about 155k and he makes like 50k.

2:00:08Rachel Cruze:Okay. Go ahead. Well, what does he do for a living? He works for a logistics company, kind of like trucking and dispatching. Okay. What do you do? I'm in technology. I'm a project manager in technology. Okay, great. Is he a motivated person? I don't think there's anything wrong with what he's earning. I just think that the bigger thing I'd be looking at is what's his attitude? Like, is he a motivated person? Is he interested in the same goals I'm interested in? Is he a person who likes forward movement in his life? Because it sounds like you are. Yeah, I am very driven and motivated. Like ever since I was in college, I was like, always like, want to make money.

2:00:50And I'm in a really good financial state. I don't think he has the same motivation or like drive that I have. I would probably have to push him. I think he like does listen to me and like has been kind of like motivated seeing me. But I just don't know if, like, moving in together, like, that would be the next step. And I want to take it. But at the same time, I don't know how to mix the finances and then have to lower a lot of the things that I currently do. Well, I don't – let me clarify. I don't think that he has to be exactly like you. I'm just saying clearly you value someone who is motivated and is interested in forward movement.

2:01:27So I'd be looking for some level of that. I'd also be interested in knowing what his philosophy is with money versus yours. If you're a no-debt person, is he a no-debt person? If you're a I want to invest for my future and I put money away, is he interested in savings in those types of ways? Those are the conversations I'd be having more so than what's the dollar amount that I make every single month. Because the truth is you are also in different fields. And he may cap out at$100. you might always make a little bit more than him. And so is it just like, gosh, I just want a guy who makes more money than me.

2:02:03Or are there other factors that you're looking for characteristics that you're looking for in his character? Okay. I think my only concern, my biggest concern is like retirement. Like I have a lot of money already saved for retirement and like he doesn't. How old are you? Just because he doesn't make enough money. I'm 33. And how old is he?

2:02:24How old is he? Sorry, 35. 35.

2:02:27Rachel Cruze:Christina, I mean, well, we don't recommend combining finances at all until you're married. Okay. So once you get married, though, then yes, I would say it all goes into one pot. And you wouldn't have to lower your lifestyle because you're going to be making what you're making. He's going to be bringing in$50 ,000. So you guys, as a household, with these numbers, would be making$200 ,000. So as a household, we're going to be investing 15 % of our income. As a household, we're going to be budgeting. as a household. We're going to be buying a house together. Like that's, that, that's the movement.

2:03:02Rachel Cruze:So it's less about who brings in what, but, but to see yourselves as one. Now, if you don't feel good about that, then yeah, you probably shouldn't marry him. Okay. But, but I would say I would push a little bit to, to look at this as more unity for the future, right? Not today, but in the future. doesn't have to be moving in together. That does not. The next step for you could be like, I'm going to date this guy a little while longer. I'm going to open up these conversations, figure out what his motivations are, figure out his philosophy on money. And if I like that, then I'm going to keep dating him.

2:03:39And if he wants to propose, then we can cross that bridge when we get to it. But don't feel like the next thing you have to do is move in and combine your finances for sure. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I just feel, it just feels a little uncomfortable to talk about money and coming from like a, um, I don't know, like more abundant place, um, for me. So do you think he'd feel uncomfortable or you feel uncomfortable? I definitely feel uncomfortable. Why? I don't know how he feels just because like, I am always like traveling and buying things and doing a lot of things that he cannot do. Does he feel a way about that?

2:04:22Has he expressed, gosh, I'm left out? Because what I'm trying to get at is maybe he feels really great about what he's doing and his job and he's feeling secure. And I don't know, but maybe you're just automatically projecting that on him because you make a little bit more. Yeah. Okay. It may not be as big of an issue. He hasn't said anything. I just don't want to. I've been so scared to bring it up, basically, just because I don't want to, you know. Does he know what you earn? Does he know you make$155? No, no. Okay. He knows I make a lot more than he does, but he does not know how much.

2:05:02Rachel Cruze:Well, know this, Christina. Money is a massive piece of a relationship, okay? And being on the same page with money is a big part, as is, you know, you could say spirituality, talking about that, in-laws and family. I mean, getting to know someone is a big part of building a relationship. And when you hold this part away from him, he doesn't have the opportunity to to know you right on a level of what of what you're doing. And so I guess I could see your fear of how he would react. But I do think there's a level that you may be making up a story in your head that's not really there. Unless it's a unless it's a deal breaker for you.

2:05:42I'm just curious, is it when you say like the guy I want, is it one of your gender roles that it's like he needs to make more than me? And if so, why is that? No, no, no, it's not. I just I just want to feel like superior to him financially. I don't I don't know that I feel like that's how it would come off if I would say, OK, here I make three times more than what you make. What do you think about money? hmm i i would be interested to see how he feels but today i think it's more your issue than his okay and and that's not to say that you can't have that and i think you should have that conversation and just say hey we've never talked about money like get to know him first before you just drop the bomb and hopefully he's asking you the same types of questions that you're asking about him and let it unveil itself pretty like organically.

2:06:38This is not the conversation to be like, hey, how much do you make? Because I make this and I just feel like it's going to be a problem. Just start talking. Yes. And see what comes about organically. Don't have the conversation in order to like figure it out. Just start getting to know him financially. And I think that it'll unveil itself in an organ. It's been a year. I think you've got some time to.

2:06:59Rachel Cruze:And the only reason you would do this, Christina, is for a future that you see with him, right? And if this is going to be a person that you say, yes, I see a future with him and I want to combine my life and I'm going to make a vow to him to be with him for the rest of my life and I'm going to be married to him and I'm going to be his wife and he's going to be my husband, then these are very, very crucial conversations to have to make sure you guys are at a good spot together heading into creating a new life, right, together. So like Jade's saying, if marriage isn't coming soon, I guess there's probably not an urgency for this.

2:07:36Rachel Cruze:But if you're wanting to move forward in this relationship, then yes, this is a subject that needs to be talked about. Okay. So, yeah, I hope that helps. And I think the you feeling superior, you know, your net worth is not your self-worth. and that's true for you too, you know? And I think you know that. You're not three times better than him because you make more money and you could be building up something that again, it may not be there for him. He may be okay and he loves you and he loves who you are and he's been in a relationship with you for a year. All right, that's a great hour, Jade.

2:08:17Rachel Cruze:It is. Always fun hosting with you. Thanks to everyone in the booth. Thanks to our great audience that came out today. And remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.